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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Minnow,
"Gypsy was a tad bit defensive. I would say, for no reason."
You said "I can only hope those fish were fresh and delicious food for many that night. If so, that is wonderful."
One could read this as a questioning of the values of the people who caught these fish. The "If so, that is wonderful" can be heard as a judgement and
a inplied criticism if the imbedded "accusation" is not responded to in the way you "hope", that is that the fish were legitimately caught and eaten.
If it is not "wonderful" then what? Can you see how this could be read as a mand (hidden command) to justify themselves? I believe this was not your
intention, however it may well be what stimulated the defensive response. Your comment could easily have been heard as a criticism. Shari's elaborate
discription may also have in it a defence against the hidden accusation that the fish may not have been used in it's entirety or wasted.
I believe you did not mean a personal attack. I would imagine that you can see now how one might have been easily interpreted in your post.
Have a good one and good luck with the fish! I hope there will be enough fish left to feed my grandchilds children. I wonder sometimes.
Iflyfish
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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I flyfish;
OK, the Gypsies responed that it was, and Shari responded that it was, so why are you involved in the debate again? To point how wrong I was to
question when the fish was eaten? Thereby making me a rude poster. Did you
read my first sentence also. The one that goes "this is a hard one for me", or just the last one, where I describe why that question or picture, or
methode of taking fish is a hard one for me. Words taken out of context are just that.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Bajagypsy
Super Nomad
Posts: 1416
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: BahÃa Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Living the dream
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Minnow, upon reflection, I should have waited to post my first post. I understand that you were not attacking us for fishing, just posting your
opionion. I know alot of people do overfish, or fish illegaly, just as some people poach when the go hunting. We do not, and because of the people
that do, we tend to find ourselves, having to defened what we do to feed our family.
I have no ill feelings toward you or what you posted, and hope that we can have many happy posts together in the future.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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No Worries; I am sure just as many, if not more, overfish with a rod and reel as do with a spear. Believe me, I believe in your right to feed your
family in every legal way. After all, what could be more delicious and healthy than fresh fish.
Saludos
Tom and Yho
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Here's an example, how was I going to eat all this in one day? The fish died during the fight or it would have been released. It did feed several
orphanages on Kona though.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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these guys made delicious sushi.
[Edited on 8-12-2006 by Minnow]
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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That is no minnow, minnow. Nice catch!
I have a 800# stuffed Blue Marlin in my garage in Baja hanging on the wall. A buddy of a buddy had caught it in Cabo 15 years ago. It was completely
crated, and had never been displayed. It cost him a fortune for taxidermy in Rosarito. He never got the chance to hang it on a wall. So it went from
storage to his Mom's garage to other buddy's garage to another buddy's garage for years.
Finally he was getting married and she said, no way Jack, and then was hard pressed to get rid of the Marlin. It was over 11' long and he couldn't
find anyone to take it, then remembering he had a buddy who had a buddy that had a brother that had a Beach House in Baja, me! It showed up at my
house unexpected without a phone call (recieved later from my brother). It sat in my garage for 6 months till finally this huge crate went up on the
rack of my truck and I drove right across the New Mexicali border without incident. Got it uncrated, and realized it was way too big for the house,
so, had just finished a 500 sq. ft. addition on the garage with a wall long enough to display it. Great conversation piece! 8 years later it still
looks great!
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Minnow,
I engaged further in this discussion because you posted
""Gypsy was a tad bit defensive. I would say, for no reason."
I thought it appropriate to share with you the possible reason for Gypsy's perceived defensiveness. I recently had an exchange with a nomad via email
and believe I may have offended him by the words I chose to express myself. I am sensitive to this issue and feel bad that my words may have offended
him. I am sorting this our as we speak. It is hard sometimes using the written word to express ouselves in ways that will be understood in the way
that I intend to express them.
I share with you the same principles and values that fishing by any means should be done in a legal and appropriate way. I eat what I catch or am
cetain that someone else does.
Human beings, and I believe this is by nature, are exploitive organisms that will denude forests, kill off species and then blame those who try to
protect these species as the cause of the problem. The spotted out here in the Pacific Northwest is an excellent example. It is a marker species, the
health of which provides vital information on the health of the forests they inhabit. No Spotted Owls, forest in decline. So when the forests can no
longer be harvested because Spotted Owls are deminishing or lost to that forest, then the people who advocatate for saving the owls are attacked.
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Fly------OK fly, now you have done it------
You say: "Human beings, and I believe this is by nature, are exploitive organisms that will denude forests, kill off species and then blame those
who try to protect these species as the cause of the problem. The spotted out here in the Pacific Northwest is an excellent example. It is a marker
species, the health of which provides vital information on the health of the forests they inhabit. No Spotted Owls, forest in decline. So when the
forests can no longer be harvested because Spotted Owls are deminishing or lost to that forest, then the people who advocatate for saving the owls are
attacked"
As a previous employee of the USFS, NPS, and BLM, I can assure you that the "spotted owl issue" has given ulcers to more than one professional
Forester, and Forest manager! I cannot tell you how many worthwhile projects have been torpedoed by the "spotted owl issue", and thereby by the
proponents of that issue. It is no wonder that there is hostility!!
An old growth forest, tho beautiful for man to look at, is NOT A HEALTHY FOREST, just as a 100 year old man is not a healthy man. I will not go into
the many reasons why this is so, but believe me, it is SO. Proponents of the "spotted owl issue" are using selective science to support their
claims----and it is not backed up by the scientific "rest of the story". The "spotted owl" issue is a NIGHTMARE!!! tho well intentioned.
Nuff said on THAT issue, I am thinking.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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What's all the comotion over the fish in the picture..I took this photo and it was the BIKINI I loved...white as snow in Saskatchewan! That's what
lured that sheepshead! Gypsies, I think you should get your white butts down here as all this earthquake business started when you left!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Shari-----
I agree-----every time I return to this thread I gravatate towards the first post, and it is NOT because of the fish displayed!!!!
Photos are worth a thousand words, for sure. 
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Barry A, I learn something.
I appreciate your perspective and accept that you know more than I do about this issue. You have worked in the field and your knowledge of the issues
far exceeds my own. I am always interested in learning from others who have more information than I do.
I have worked with career employees of BLM and the Forest Service who have told me that the agency had become the lackey of the Forest Industry. There
may be some disagreement within these agencies about these issues. I have however seen in Canada how the Pine Beatle has devastated the forests and
have been told by loggers with tears in their eyes how political decisions have stopped the logging of very useful timber that will be left to rot. I
do not question that you have seen good projects stopped because of owl habitat.
These are complicated issues. I have read that the spotted owl is a marker species, like the canary in the mine, and that their depletion indicates
that the habitat that they occupy is in danger if they are not found in certain numbers. I may have been misled on this issue. I don’t think I
misunderstood what I was reading. Science involves disputes over facts. The issue of the owl is one that perhaps the facts have been misrepresented to
support certain peoples agendas.
The point however that I was making is that I believe that human beings are exploitive by nature and will destroy habitats and environments without
consideration of the consequences. I believe that there is ample history to support this point of view i.e. the destruction of trees on Easter Island
leading to famine and eventually depopulation. Perhaps a similar story in the history of the Southwestern Native Americans called the Anasazi. We
yearly see species go extinct because of human activity. The owl example may not be a good example and I grant you that.
As to the photo, that is a very handsome couple and the two-piece, exquisite! The fish also look great in their red and black outfits. White as snow
in Saskatchewan, I like that!
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Fly-------I totally agree with all you say here----
------but, it is not that the science the "owl people" are using is wrong, it is just selective, leaving out other science that tends to lessen the
importance of the "owl issues". As is usually the case in political issues, the complete story is often not represented, thus leading to distorted
conclusions, and thereby incorrect decisions on some projects.
Yes, there are those within any Agency that have an "agenda", and distort the truth to their own advantage------that is what always makes knowing
exactly what is going on so difficult. However, having said that, when it is an Agencies mandate to provide for the harvesting of timber, I can see
why many think that they are "lackeys" of the timber industry, and to some degree that may be true. It is complicated.
I appreciate your reply.
Now I am going to look at the first post of this thread again for a renewed "fix". (fishes? fishes? what fishes?)
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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I think I will examine the original photo more closely also. Somehow I feel calmer when I do. Hmmmm
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Barry A,
You said "However, having said that, when it is an Agencies mandate to provide for the harvesting of timber, I can see why many think that they are
"lackeys" of the timber industry, and to some degree that may be true."
This may be part of my confusion. I thought these agencies also represented the interest of the health of the forest and were in the business of
ensuring sustainable harvest so that the resource could be protected for future use and enjoyment.
I would be interested in your perspective on this issue. Did you know that IQ drops with increase in testosterone?
Talk with you later when you have your chips back.
Ilfyfish
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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No butt, I've refinished furniture with the old Mexican made toilet paper.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Dennis, I am shocked,
You missed the hooters in the original post? You must go back and examine that picture very carefully.
Ilfyfish
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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How the EL did you get to be moderator Hose A. I bet you know who is peeed to el.
And yes, nice bikini errr fishes, and save the spotted sheepshead. Is it happy hour yet.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Oops, it was Hose A who missed the hooters.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Minnow, this round on me.
Iflyfish
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