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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Living in Mexico
Don't get me wrong. I love living in Baja, especially since I've retired. It's just that it's not some spiritual culture jag for me. If it was
Belgium on the U.S. southern border, it would be fine with me, except for the fact that the cost of living would probably be a lot higher. What I
love most of all is living with the Beach at my front door and being only 300 miles away from my other life. I couldn't do that anywhere in the U.S.
at a cost level I would appreciate.
Although I came to Baja many, many times with my parents (beginning in 1950) for fishing, Horse Racing and Jai Alai as a child, when I first started
coming on my own as a teenager, it was for surfing, fun and adventure, especially on Avenida Revolucion in Tijuana. Later, it was for more fun riding
Dirt Bikes and driving offroad. The first time I ever saw San Felipe was in 1966 when we came down on The Thanksgiving holidays to ride Dirt Bikes.
Living in Los Angeles, the Sea of Cortez was a great place to go in the cooler months. The Seaside became a greater attraction when I became more
serious about sailing. Having the ocean for a front yard is still the number one reason I love being there. When the weather and water permit, I
spend everyday in the ocean wondering why all those other people are sitting in the bar.
Although it would be great if I could run out at any time for some KFC, a Big Mac or some BBQ Ribs and everybody spoke English, I still enjoy the
land, the people, the atmosphere and I'd be the last to think that anybody has to change their ways for me. It's just that I don't have any real
interest in foreign cultures. It's the Place and the people (as individuals) rather than the culture I am most attracted to. I have friends from
other cultures (Germany, Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia and even France) who would tell you exactly the same thing if asked. I haven't got much
interest in anything about their culture, or especially their food. No inquisitive fascination for me.
Speaking of Native foods, what I enjoyed most about my last vacation in Northern Florida was that the town we stayed in had (1) Mexican Restaurant,
(1) Pizza Joint and a BBQ place on every block. In two weeks, I ate more BBQ Pork and Beef than I had the previous year. Now That's
CULTURE ! Pass the Sauce and bring another platter.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kellychapman
I thought I was getting it down and was getting somewhere. When I read this quote I was blown away by clearing my fog and then I read the last
statement about this being a shooting gallary and removing this thread and it is was like 2 different people writing......the first so enlighting and
then an ending leaving me feel awful. I hate threats as they make me feel bad or afraid to be honest and especially after making me feel so
good.........we have enough BS going on this earth without stepping in it on this thread....of course there are always accidents sometimes.....
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kellychapman, Thanks for liking the first part of my post!  It's interesting that
you read my closing line as a threat! It wasn't intended that way at all....but rather it was in response to some negativity about this thread having
been created in the first place...."Don't go there". I knew that the person saying that saw the great potential for this thread becoming an "us
versus them" bashing & I stated that I feel it is possible to have a respectful discussion....but IF it were to turn ugly;
IF it were to turn into a shooting gallery, then I'd be the first person to want to pull the plug on it.
IMHO, too many threads turn ugly & a few posts can ruin an otherwise good thread for many others. Because of the potential inherent danger in
this topic, I didn't want this thread especially to become a bulletin board a bunch of negativity about our host country or it's people. I feel that
iflyfish has done a good job of keeping this thread on track & got it back on track when it momentarily veered off into what I'd refer to as a
"men's locker room" discussion. It is possible to state your feelings/thoughts honestly....yet respectfully....as the majority of the posts on this
thread prove. This forum is like a "potluck".....everyone brings something different to the table; some more appetizing than others!  But not everything that everyone brings is going to be palatable to everyone else!
That's human nature....across all cultures!
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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Thats the way I read your post Longleg - a very nice Post with a great metaphor. And a warning to those abusing this thread. Right on !!PLEASE- keep
coming back ! I try too, although I sometimes loose the taste, when reading some of the posts.
Not because they contain differing opinion, rather because they are just distorting the whole idea of the thread.
It's like going to the Butcher and tell people there - to hell with it - I'M a Vegetarian. 
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Legs, I like the potluck metaphore.
We all experience cultural differences in Mexico. Some are infuriating and some are delightful. I am certain that the same holds true for those native
Mexicans visiting the USofA.
I once had a giant fireworks wheel fall from the top of a huge tower fall right next to me. Sparks everywhere, I'm jumping like a frog leg in a shot
skillet. Everyone around me was laughing. I was not. I later reflected that this is a very different response than I would have had in the USofA in
the same situation. I was within an inch of my life! There must be something very different in the Mexican Culture related to death. The Day of the
Dead is an excellent example. I loved Farashas posts on this.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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LOL, I just got the butcher metaphore, Good one Farasha
Iflyfishwhennotrollingintheisles
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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SO - what I was thinking today : what is it - that is different in the Mexican Culture that is attracting those who keep going back or live there
fulltime?? Beside that it is cheaper.
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Iflyfish
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Farasha, good question
For me it is the slower pace, wonderful people, amazing food, excellent fishing, sunsets, different cultural experiences.
For me there is a magic in Mexcio, Saint Days, Market Days, Festivals, Fiestas, Carnivals, Bull Fights, Paragrinations, Pilgrimages, Penitentes. I
recall truning a corner in Queretaro and running into Nine foot tall paper mache statues walking down the street. A parade of clowns in St. Miguel de
Allende. Attome Indians dancing outside the cathederal in Queteraro, "this is our place" gesture to the Catholics. Anthropology museum in Oaxaca with
a mariposa guide who BELIEVED the ancient religion. Butterfly forests. Comida Corida. Did I mention Flan?
The guide who walked us through the amazing pyramid outside of Tlaxcala where the painted frescos were as fresh looking as the year they were painted.
The guide noticing my stomach upset and applying his thumb to the web between my thumb and pointing finger and the pain going away NOW!
Did I mention the people? The amazingly resiliant Mexican people? The Mayo who took us to see the rising sun and planet itnersect through the hole in
the lighthouse at sunrise on the equinox. The Yaquis who surrounded us in Los Moches and engulfed us in their Easter drama/paragrination. The swoosh,
swoosh, swoosh of brooms cleaning dirt floors, immaculate dirt floors. The sound of turkeys and chickens greating the dawn. Pulsing adobe building
housing the five hundred cc corn grinder in San Blas. The squeeling pig whose throat was cut on the main drag at the crack of dawn. Seeing the carcus
carved by the slice in the meat market that day. The many, many kind Mexicans who have patientlysmiled while I rolled out my bastardised Spanish to
then resopond in perfect English to my request.
These are some and only some of the things about my experience with Mexican culture that keeps me coming back.
Like they say in the old country:
"Estados Unitos Del Norte es por denero, Mexico es por la corizone" sorry for the spelling.
Ilfyfish
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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For me, it's the people. Most are gracious and respectful. I appreciate that quality. I also learn from it.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-2-2003
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When it is all over, it comes down to:
"Old Dogs, Little Children, and Watermelon Wine"!
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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WHOW THAT is a very colorful description - that comes close to a LOVE LETTER
Okay -I found somthing in this post that got me jumping
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
The guide noticing my stomach upset and applying his thumb to the web between my thumb and pointing finger and the pain going away NOW!
IFF I tell you - THAT is a VERY common Acupuncture point (Li 4) either this man has studied the TCM, or the Mexican Culture established a similar
technic - like the chinese!
"Estados Unitos Del Norte es por denero, Mexico es por la corizone"
yeah Flyfishingwhennotgettingecstaticovermexicanlife
!!!! That is mostly true I guess!!!
Farasha the Bajamariposa
[Edited on 7-12-2006 by FARASHA] |
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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I failed to mention Naciamentos, I would imagine that I have the wrong spelling for this too. I love those!!! Will I be seeing them in Baja? Any
suggestions of a neighborhood in Ensenada where I would find them? I would be happy to take someone to lunch/dinner whatever if they could guide my
family on a tour of Naciementos in Ensenada over the Christmas holidays. I love them.
Ilfyfishwhennotlookingfornaciamentos
aka Iflyfishwhennotgettingecstticovermexicanlife
Farash, you are way too much fun!!!
Iflyfish
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
I failed to mention Naciamentos, I would imagine that I have the wrong spelling for this too. I love those!!! Will I be seeing them in Baja? Any
suggestions of a neighborhood in Ensenada where I would find them? I would be happy to take someone to lunch/dinner whatever if they could guide my
family on a tour of Naciementos in Ensenada over the Christmas holidays. I love them. |
I'll swim from the malecon hasta el mogote por comida
It means that if you like I can take you arround to view the nacimientos in exchange for some tacos 
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Farash, you are way too much fun!!!
Iflyfish |
I'm more fun on a taco tour
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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fdt,
Are you serious. Don't you live in Tijuana. You would come to Ensenada to join my family on a tour of naciamentos and taco stands?
Now that would be a blast!!!!
That sounds like heaven to me.
I will contact you via email to clarify.
Ilfyfishwhennotchasingnaciamentosandeatingfishtacos
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Thoughts in the dark.
I have been reading this thread for some time and have asked myself the question? Just what is culture. I have not found the answer, but I have
reached a few simple, to me, conclusions.
Culture equals environment so environment determines culture until we pass those basic needs and move beyond family, loyalty, integrity, honesty and
all those other catchy words that have been used to describe the beginnings of good cultures.
At this point culture becomes no longer driven by how people act but more often how certain folks who would describe themselves as ‘above the common
man’ begin to invent a culture that represents their environment and views. Sadly, it is at this point that the common guy and gay, knowing their
place in culture begin to, at least partially, buy into aspects of this ‘new’ culture.
So the culture that has built up over the years of the experiences and environment that the majority has adopted and adapted to becomes in conflict
with those few who ‘know’ that they understand what is good and necessary in a culture.
This is the place that I believe that many of those folks moving to Baja find themselves. (I sure know I did.) They no longer care for the culture
that has morphed into something that they not only do not care for, but to one that they are basically unable to be comfortable with.
The younger people reject the ‘phony’ culture that proscribes their activities. They remain in the general culture—but far removed from its values—
and lash out with their own ‘countercultures’ or fads.
Some mature members of the basic culture wander into Baja, scratch the surface of that culture, and believe that they like the values of family,
integrity, honesty, etc and decide that this is a very comfortable place where they could fit in with quite nicely.
Time passes and they begin to tinker with the culture or environment because, well they really are above the common man and that they surely know
better the direction that the ‘culture’ needs to follow.
So just what is culture. For my money it surely is not what kind of food or music one listens to or how a person dresses.
To me it is at that point that the many have bought into the ‘basic values of a society’—sadly it is also at about this point that the accepted
culture or comfortable environment begins to be rejected by the few. The “isms” begin to take over and the wants and needs of the basic culture are
soon rejected and forgotten—as are its members.
And, boy! That is another story entirely.
PS Read this to the wife and her reaction was, “I always thought of culture as the overcoat of society!” I responded, “you mean the top hat.”
So, I guess that sums it up (maybe) culture is what ones point of view makes it.
I take my hat off to all of the views expressed here.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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I will add my dos pesos now....to get along in Mexico remember the three most important things....respect, respect, respect. Everything else should
fall into place.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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HM - interesting thoughts Bernie. Had similar considerations.
AND was comparing it to MY cultur I grew up with, to the one's I had choosen to live with (for some time), or was confronted with, while traveling.
AND now pondering the Question
- as Culture is also Tradition -
Is this what makes the People look for other Places to live, fulltime or parttime??
What attracts us to places like Baja, Mexico, ......
The need for a rural atmophere, crime free (hm, or think so that it is), with Values and Traditions we miss in OUR Environment? Beside more space to
stretch ( what we could do also in Lake Tahoe or Alberta or in a Yellowstone National Park, or in the Alps)
Are we seeking a place with Archaic Structures? Is this what charmes us??
Just some thoughts from Farashathebajamariposawhosuffersthroughwinter
(IFF I just found a liking in this ART of signing)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Culture is the beneficial accomplishments of a society.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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Here is a link to Wikopedia definition of Culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture
Interesting reading.
Baja Bernie,
So much in your post. Must reply at another time. Packing now for the journey South!
Ilfyfish
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
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That is was I was talking all the way long - RESPECTING other PEOPLE as well as their VALUES i e CULTURE - and I do think that certain cultures show
MORE respect then others.
And the so called CIVILIZED Cultures seems to have lost Respect.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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No way FARASHA --
Mexican people are the most gracious people I've met on a face to face basis but when left on their own, the most selfish and self centered. That is
evident in their driving style. They [ not all but, most] will run you off the road one minute and kiss your cheek when you subsequently meet them
in the parking lot. It may not be disrespect for you but, a chance for self-respect in a culture which made waiting a part of everyday life.
Franz Kafka could have done wonders with the Metamorphasis that takes place in the Mexican persona from the street to the drivers street.
I'm taken to another scenario, one which I'm sure we are all familiar with if we shop in the local stores.
A Mexican shopper with a cart will stop in the middle of the aisle and step to the other side to examine products on the shelf, consequently blocking
the aisle. You approach with your basket and come to a stand-still because the aisle is blocked. You wait a moment before saying, "Con Permiso", and
the Mexican will look at you like you just popped up out of the ground. She will smile and say all sorts of nice stuff and move her basket.
The point is, she is unaware that she may be blocking others passage until it is brought to her attention. To her it isn't anything but an expected
social interaction.
To us, it is rude.
What I'm trying to say, I hope, is that selfish and self-centered to us is, in this case, is the accepted way of life for Mexicans.
It's all good if we just forget that we absolutely know it all. There's a reason, albeit sometimes inscrutible, for most everything.
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