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fdt
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4th day 65 replies and no name calling. Wow, makes me proud.
saludos
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Iflyfish
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I really enjoy playing with words. There are lots of double meanings in English like we are enjoying on this post. I wonder if this is common in the
Mexican culture too? fdt posted a list of slang used in La Paz for various things. Do these words have double meaning?
Humor is often very difficult to understand in another language and culture. For instance sarcasm can often be confused with anger. I wonder if
Mexicans feel more free to josh with each other about differences. I have been called gordo in a very friendly way, or whao? (again forgive my
spelling), which I understand to be "white guy". If I called someong fat or called them by their skin color, "hey black guy, how is it going?" I might
be in for a real round of the old boxeo!
Iflyfishanddobedobedo
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Oso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Oso
It is possible to understand, even adapt, but extremely difficult to entirely overcome one's own cultural indoctrination. A particular trait of my
dear wife and others I deal with on a daily basis, particularly my Maintenance Supervisor, is that Mexican, maybe Indian as well, necessity of laying
out the background, |
VERY interesting. I've always thought that to be mainly gender-based...
--Larry |
Nope, but you reveal your own gendercentricity in assuming that my Maintenance Supervisor is a guy.  (He is.)
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Iflyfish
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Oso,
Exactly. That's the stuff. I wonder if Mexicans have a similar experience of Nortes in different contexts?
Iflyfish when not scratching my head bald
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Iflyfish
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Lencho,
I wonder about left vs right brain dominance?
Men are from Mars, Woman from who knows where?
Iflyfish when not in deep dobedobedo
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FARASHA
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 YES,OSO - been there, and jumped up and down inside.
BUT after some years I started to recognise - that I actually not only got used to it - I picked up some of this attitude, its a kind of a ritual. It
is about TAKING TIME, and taking room for oneslf - something we consistantly moan about - the lack of it. I did become more relaxed and can lean back
and do less, in the undrstanding of ZEN - LESS is MORE.
And isn't exactly THAT what we are seeking, when we come to places like BAJA???
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Oso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Oso,
Exactly. That's the stuff. I wonder if Mexicans have a similar experience of Nortes in different contexts?
Iflyfish when not scratching my head bald |
In general, "El Sajon" is considered a cold fish, devoid of emotion or passion and rude in his directness.
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Minnow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Farasha wrote: This kind of philosophy is to be found in some other cultures as well - I was confronted with it in quite some VERY different cultures
- usually when people are BELIEVERS of any Religion Or Old Cultures (mostly it goes hand in hand). The analytical solution- thinking, is more common
in younger cultures, or rather secular people.
Interesting that you would call this a philosophy. I am not so sure it is a philosophy that we talk of here. Maybe more like the skin discussion you
were having earlier with longlegs. Our acculturation becomes part of us. It is integrated into the self. I believe we are born with native capacities,
the raw stuff of our neurology that sets the stage for the learning and conditioning that takes place. Brain damage or birth defects can cause people
to act certain ways regardless of their upbringing. People born with Attention Deficit Disorder are impulsive because their frontal lobes are under
active and do not act to inhibit behavior. Their hyperactivity and impulsivity is not a philosophy. It is a way that the brain functions in the body.
I think that we are shaped by scripting from our families, culture, subculture, peer group, social class and religion. We get messages from all of
these sources as to what it is to be a person in the context where we are raised. This scripting is laid down in our neurology and reaction patterns
are formed. These response patterns become habitual and sometimes stereotypical.
There are people on this list who have traveled much more extensively than I and may have more to add to this discussion on this issue. I do not have
a lot of cross cultural experience to relate directly to. However I think that the ways that characterize the differences between Norte Americanos an
Mexicans are also found as one compares Eastern and Western Societies. I read I believe it was Suzuki, the man who brought Zen Buddhism to North
America who wrote Zen Buddhism and Psychoanalysis who compared two poets describing a similar experience of encountering a flower. He compared the
twelfth or thirteenth century Japanese poet Bash and Alfred Lord Tennyson. Tennyson wrote Flower In A Crannied Wall”, please excuse my crude
rendition, it goes something like this, “Flower in a crannied wall, I hold you in my hand, were I to know you, root and all, I would know what God and
man is”. Now Basho comes across a nazuna flower blooming by a hedge. His poem goes something like this, “Ah!! It is spring! And the nazuna is blooming
by the hedge!” I believe that this comparison demonstrates one of the differences we are talking about in relation to Mexicans and Norte Americanos.
Tennyson wants to take it apart and see how it works so he can understand larger principles. Basho reacts to it. He does nothing TO it. There is
nothing to do. The experience is all there is. I am not saying one is better. Maybe both ways of operating in the world have utility in different
circumstances. This line of thinking makes me wonder what the functional utility is of these different ways of interacting with the world. They must
have survival value of they would not be so ingrained. It ain’t the water.
There are zealots and fundamentalists in all religions. There are people in all religions that take their literature specifically and concretely and
those who approach these things for their symbolic value. i.e. some believe that there was literally a virgin birth while others believe there is a
spiritual life that is entered into via a painful process and the myth of the virgin birth points to that concept.
The religious fundamentalist of course wants to limit questioning and exploration and does not see spiritual growth as a journey but as a destination,
that one must be at or be damned. That sort of thinking is of course antithetical to analytic thinking.
I wonder what significance there is in Mexico having been a conquered nation and before that ruled by brutal regimes. I wonder what role the fact that
Japan is an island and had up until recently a rigid and brutal feudal system has to play on these cultural differences. I wonder what role the
wilderness and the west have played in the development of Norte Americano ways of being. What is it in German history that would end up with them
developing so much science? What role does the age of a culture play in all of this? Good question.
Iflyfish when not staying up too late |
I now know why you "fly fish".
I would love to meet you sometime. Do you live in Baja?
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Cypress
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Oso!!
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fdt
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Ifdt posted a list of slang used in La Paz for various things. Do these words have double meaning? |
No double meaning necesarily, just word that are comon to the area, and there are a lot more. As a matter of fact there is a duo called Los Huizapoles
that make jokes and music in Baja California Sur, making fun about the ways of life and words used in the region.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by IflyfishHumor is often very difficult to understand in another language and culture. For instance sarcasm can often be
confused with anger. I wonder if Mexicans feel more free to josh with each other about differences. I have been called gordo in a very friendly way,
or whao? (again forgive my spelling), which I understand to be "white guy". |
I'ts done all the time, we call little ferna "güerito", we call my brother negro, we call their uncle gordo and so on.
| Quote: | Originally posted by IflyfishIf I called someong fat or called them by their skin color, "hey black guy, how is it going?" I might be in for
a real round of the old boxeo!
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It could be very offensive if you say it in an offensive way, but it is very common to call someone how if of african origin, Olle mi negrito, ¿como
te va?
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Cypress
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There're way too many folks running around looking for a reason to be offended.
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Osprey
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Oso, had a friend near here with that "get to the point" problem. When I caught on to his gig I had lots of fun with him: I would
1. Slow down
2. Say things like "let me tell about this trip I took to Chicago in 92, or was it 94, no, not Chicago, Cheyenne maybe, well it was in the fall, not
very hot, kinda humid for Cheyennne or Cuba really and I was with my buddy Sal, Sal and Ginny, no Ginny left him when he painted her housecoat, well
anyway......
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Minnow
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Has anyone ever asked a Mexican for directions? I think all above usually apply, but it ends with. "turn left at the dead dog, but, he's not dead
he's resting".
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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fdt
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just a theory
maybe the mexican is giving good directions but the person receiving them, mexican or american doesn't know what a dead or resting dog looks like?
I've been given directions before were it goes like; turn left at Chalito Cotas house and go till you see a house were Joselito, Pancho the fishermans
dad used to live and make a right till you get to were they sell tamales on christmas time, from there you go 3 blocks and make another left the
corner were at Juan el carpintero's house, but his grandson Julio lives there because Juan moved to Todos Santos when the huricane hit La Paz, from
there just follow the same street till you get to were the old hielera used to be and dirctly across the street is were you are going.
In this theory if you know all the characters and history you would probably find the place you are looking for.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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FARASHA
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Tell you fdt - not only a Mexican way to give instruction, its in rural areas everywhere common, and tells you at the same time the History of the
people and the village I always enjoyed it, to get this way directions. Gives
an insight in a culture!!!
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Minnow
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I don't know the characters, or maybe I do, but I am laughing my arse off. Because that is exactly how it goes. Thanks for the laugh fdt.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Cypress
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The inability to give directions is a universal malfunction shared by PHD's and all educational levels down to preschool drop-outs.
This disorder is not restricted to any geographic boundaries. Might be a
genetic sort of thing?
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comitan
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fdt
If you new all of that history you would not have to ask for directions.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Bajalero
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
4th day 65 replies and no name calling. Wow, makes me proud.
saludos |
This has turned out to be a good discussion .
It is interesting to see what different opinions there are and try to put these into perspective with each individual poster only as I know them from
this forum.
Ferna , you pretty much nailed it with your subsequent post (" just a theory"). Funny and true.
Provocative thread Iflyfish
lero
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fdt
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you are correct
| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
fdt
If you new all of that history you would not have to ask for directions. |
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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