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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Minnow,
I live in Oregon but love to visit Baja. Will be in Baja over the holidays and for a month or so after. Where are you located?
I too am enjoying this dialogue. Learning some things and laughing. Always good when that can happen. I too am getting to know some folks this way and
appreciate all of the posts.
If we had no interest in other people, cultures and places we would just stay home. Having such a diverse group of individuals to dialogue with is a
great privilage to me and one that is unique in the history of mankind.
I have appreciated all of the help, both direct and indirect that I have recieved on this group as we plan our upcoming trip to Baja. Doors have
opened and questions have been answered. One cannot ask for more.
fdt and farasha,
My formative years, birth to eight, were on a farm in North Dakota. That is in the northern USofA and in what is called The Great Plains. The land is
flat as a tortilla. Directions were always given in relation to landmarks. "Go to the red barn, turn left for about a mile till you see a large
windmill on your left, turn right" etc. I still find myself navigating in cities this way. I find now that most people around me now give directions
in terms of street names and numbers i.e. "go to third, hang a left at Main" etc. I love the "turn left at the dead or sleeping dog".
I have been to remote areas of Mexico where the native people have come up to me and touched my skin or hair. I was once told in a remote village that
the people wanted to know if I was a ghost. I wonder if sometimes these lengthy conversations are a way to stay engaged and maybe learn something more
about these ghosts, or simply just to prolong the time unique experience.
fdt's post about directions if that it relates to people and relationships. Most people in the world relate to each other in the context of these
kinship bonds. Who is related to who and how is everything.
My brother and I once went back to North Dakota to a funeral on each side of our family. We had both a maternal and paternal grandparent die in the
same week. We were to be pall bearers in the funerals. We drove there from California. Neither of us had been back there for over twenty years. In the
two weeks we were there no one ask me what I did for a living. We entered a bank and each cashed two hundred dollar checks and they did not ask for
ID. We told them our names, not particularly important, nor famous names, but they all knew exactly where we fit in the family and the community. It
would have been an insult for them to have asked us for ID and had they done so they would have risk doing business with the entire family. This is
the way most people in the world operate. Kinship is king. Know the relationships and you know who they are, or at least most of what is important to
know.
I appreciate all of the sharing that is going on. What a gift.
Farasha, why do you think Iflyfish?
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
We entered a bank and each cashed two hundred dollar checks and they did not ask for ID. We told them our names, not particularly important, nor
famous names, but they all knew exactly where we fit in the family and the community. It would have been an insult for them to have asked us for ID
and had they done so they would have risk doing business with the entire family. This is the way most people in the world operate. Kinship is king.
Know the relationships and you know who they are, or at least most of what is important to know. |
Por fin, finaly, you got it, that simple, not complicated, just plain, easy, the way it is, simple. We like to complicate stuff but we don't need to,
we like to own things but we don't have to, we like to show off, but why?
Just keep it simple, breathe the air, different than the one at home huhhh. Drive slower, so what if they are honking in the back? I find that even
living in México (Tijuana), when I take that hwy 1 south, I need to be in a different mood. TIJUANA DOES NOT FIT SOUTH OF ROSARITO and even worse
making that sharp left at Mama Espinoza, es otro mundo, it's another world. I don't know if it has happened to others here, but as soon as I make that
left I've made it to Baja. The one we like to talk about, the one that gives us that (best described by my amigo David K) Baja Fever. The gateway to
BOLA, Cocos, Loreto, La Paz, and all those in between places like Bruce's.
Past midnight, gotta go, Mrs ferna calling
saludos
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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Wow
90 posts, almost 1400 views and still no name calling.
PUTA, QUE MACHIN.
Si estubiera en La Paz, le daria 3 vueltas al Malecon de adrede, solo de la P-nchereputaemocion, Me verahquesimanito.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Sorry fish
I have no idea how that quote got your name on it.
| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
I find that even living in México (Tijuana), when I take that hwy 1 south, I need to be in a different mood. TIJUANA DOES NOT FIT SOUTH OF ROSARITO
and even worse making that sharp left at Mama Espinoza, es otro mundo, it's another world. I don't know if it has happened to others here, but as soon
as I make that left I've made it to Baja. The one we like to talk about, the one that gives us that (best described by my amigo David K) Baja Fever.
The gateway to BOLA, Cocos, Loreto, La Paz, and all those in between places like Bruce's.
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So it is a different world so of El Rosario, but I also see and feel major social and cultural differences after the first chkpoint heading so of
Ensenada.
[Edited on 12-2-2006 by Sharksbaja]
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Hmmm, not my quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I find that even living in México (Tijuana), when I take that hwy 1 south, I need to be in a different mood. TIJUANA DOES NOT FIT SOUTH OF ROSARITO
and even worse making that sharp left at Mama Espinoza, es otro mundo, it's another world. I don't know if it has happened to others here, but as soon
as I make that left I've made it to Baja. The one we like to talk about, the one that gives us that (best described by my amigo David K) Baja Fever.
The gateway to BOLA, Cocos, Loreto, La Paz, and all those in between places like Bruce's.
Iflyfish
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Once I got lost looking for an old Navy buddy in a small town in Mississippi. About half way across an old bridge I saw a young girl sitting on the
bridge railing; I stopped and said "How do I get to Vine Street?"
She said "it's across the bridge." I asked "how far?" She replied "All the way across."
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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FLYFISHER - wild guessing over my afternoon coffee, I think youflyfish for same reason IDIVE ?
I'm amazed as fdt, this thread is turning out great. And the different opinions are respected, and not run down!!
And the cultural differences are not really that big - as we hear.
The common base it seems is the same everywhere, in places away from the bustling big towns -KINSHIP/Friendship, simplicity, humor.
And where Less is More.
Thats the way I see and feel it. In Baja, and similar places.
[Edited on 2-12-2006 by FARASHA]
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
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Ahhhhhhh!
I just simply watch and listen and with patience we have no difficulty in understanding each other.
When we do come to some sort of impasse we just laugh and move along and then come back to that minor problem if we 'mutually' agree that it is
important enough to address.
.As I said in a book, "Expose yourself to a culture (Mexican) that will teach you how to relax and enjoy yourself and those around you. Learn that
time is only your friend if its passing adds to your enjoyment of life."
Another way of looking at this cultural thing is perfectly expressed by Antonio Munoz..................."You know, in Baja,when a Mexican finds a
beautiful beach, he does not keep it to himself--he needs to share it......with a friend....................."
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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.......sharing it with a friend -Q: How many of us do have A FRIEND amongst the native Baja population?? That would share with you some knowledge. How
did it happen you became friends?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Right on----
Big difference between friend and aquaintence.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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I found one and married her in 2003.
I have never stopped learning, and she has never stopped teaching. I am still the better fisher though. Ohh, I hope she doesn't read that. My wife,
23rd, nov 2006. Her first Yellowtail.
For some reason this softeware won't take my uploads. It says the are over 50kb. They are only 17. Well, thats why no picture.
[Edited on 2-12-2006 by Minnow]
[Edited on 3-12-2006 by Minnow]
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Minnow---
Sounds as though you both had a nice catch.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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with 100 posts as to the coultral differences it has gone full ciricle and has really ended up there not differences there liknessess
most of the people doing there best for themselves and others
most people try there best to be accepted to give what they can
it may happen in a different way with a different outcome but i think the intentions are one in the same
jerry and judi
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DavidT
Nomad
Posts: 494
Registered: 4-9-2005
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What if the road doesn't have a left turn at the sleeping dog?
David
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Jerry,
I think there are real differences between cultures as well as between people. We are fortunate that there are on this board people like you describe
who are “people doing there best for themselves and others most people try there best to be accepted to give what they can it may happen in a
different way with a different outcome but i think the intentions are one in the same". There are also people out there who are robbing and taking
life. I am pleased that most, if not all on this board are as you describe.
So in terms of intention, I would agree with you that most people want to do well towards others. I believe we are motivated by self-interest and
eventually most get it that it is in my interest that your needs be met as well as my own. It also dawns on most people that cooperation trumps
competition when it comes to survival of the species.
I do however think that there are real cultural differences that exist even among those on this site. Our dialogue reflects this. I believe this to
the extent that I have even postulated that perhaps different cultures have evolved over time in such a way that genes have modified to adapt to their
environment. I am starting to add weight to the nature side of the nature vs nurture debate, at least in regard to this issue. I really believe it is
both that influence behavior, but the nature part is hardest to swallow because of its implications related to free will. I continue to be curious
about the views of others on this topic.
Ilfyfish
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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I can answer you well though out post with one or two sentences.
To fish is to be alive.
All fishermen are the same, no matter where I have found them, eternal optomists. Language, nationality, cutlure play no role.
What does that have to do with cultural differences? 99.9 percent of human dna is the same. Culture is taught, things are learned, you covet that
which you see every day.
Is that two sentences?
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Ensenada
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Mood: ando bajando
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i too, am thoroughly enjoying this discussion without venom. wow. feels good.
my two cents: we humans are so much alike as to be indistinguishable from each other--from a distance. from a distance, our planet is a gorgeous
blue ball--homogeneous. as one draws closer, one begins to see the contours and the different shades until up close (and personal) we recognize the
starkly different shapes. or, with people, the closer we get to them, the more we can be aware of the differences. i say can, because we don't
always choose to be aware of or deal with differences.
also, i think we "see" (focus on) sameness or difference, depending on our situation (context) and goals. when all is at peace, we have the luxury
of acknowledging and exploring our differences. when we are under siege, (at war) we tend to develop and us vs them attitude toward the ones from
whom we are under siege. and "us" become, in our view, more similar to each other than to any of "them."
i'm way over-generalizing, but it is my way of reconciling my sense that we are so tremendously similar (99.9???% shared dna) and yet indescribably
unique. and yes, i think cultural similarities/differences fall in the same boat. looked at from some perspectives, it is amazing how all societies
have developed cultures to deal with the same issues. but from another perspective, it is wondrous to enjoy the dramatically different way cultures
have done this. and i'm using "cultures" in the broadest sense, because as fdt and others mention, rural living is a culture unto itself.
this discussion is similar to one often held about gender differences. are men and women more alike or more different? my best answer: both. we
are totally alike and totally different. depends what you're focusing on.
anyhow, really enjoying this discussion and hoping we can keep it respectful and fun
lili
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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hea minnow i think you got somthing there??
oops just just a minnow:
jerry and judi
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
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FARASHA/Dennis
"That would share with you some knowledge. How did it happen you became friends?"
"Big difference between friend and aquaintence"
Well, I guess that when you are as isolated as a few of us gringos and a like number of Mexicans were when we first met we learned quickly to learn
from each other and to rely on our neighbors, regardless of language, when either needed help. We worked together and played together. My friends in
the area were far more than aquaintences--they were like family. Three generations and counting have been my friends. I can stop Kio's grandkids and
ask them for some help or to give their moms or grandmoms a message and know that it will be delivered.
I guess you can say that I have been blessed far more than the average gringo in my relationships with the Mexicans that I have known.
I guess I will just leave it at the fact that the stories I am posting, in Back to Baja, will reflect these relationships that were nurtured over a
period of 45 years and I still visit with my friends who taught me so much.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Sylens, well put. Perspective is important. I take a lot of photos -- now digital, for years 35MM, medium and large format. No pictures of people.
When someone would ask "why no people?" I would answer (without thinking) "they are very similar subjects one to the other; they don't belong out of
doors, they hide what is more interesting to the eye and mind, how wondrous the difference in subjects is in a photo of a shrimp and a coral, a tree
and a cloud -- people just can't compete."
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