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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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FishBuck says it all in his Post; God Bless you and all that your Words may reach-Causing them to Stop!!
We all must practice and Teach our Children to "Control their Desires and Keep Their Passions within Due Bounds""
Skeet
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Now fishbuck -----
Do you really hate cigarette smokers?
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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puff, puff......love me, love me!!
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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grover
Do they sell spider traps (first post) or foggers or somethin'.....those guys are bad dudes w hen loaded.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Now fishbuck -----
Do you really hate cigarette smokers? |
Ha ha, no I don't hate them. Just their second hand smoke and cigarette trash.
I love the sinner but hate the sin. And I do feel a little sorry for those nicotine addicts. They're headed for a slow painful death. I know, I
watched my father go through it. And all the chemo and radiation treatments are expensive and don't help much.
The only cure for cancer is not to get it.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Farasha
Your comment about prostitution being taxes over there led me to start digging because I have a very limited knowledge of taxes ourside of the United
States and Baja.
What are Solidarity taxes and Church taxes in Europe???
[Edited on 1-8-2007 by Baja Bernie]
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave...If traffickers were no longer making a profit would drugs then be free to all?
Would addicts be able to walk in to a pharmacy and get as much as they want, when ever they wanted?
And if they had to pay would they all get jobs to support their habit? |
I think those are all excellent
questions.
Of course dope shouldn't be free; think of all the lost tax revenue from official dispensaries.
All the ill effects of addiction would still be present, with the exceptions of vast expenditures on law enforcement, and widespread
violence. |
So, more people addicted to drugs wouldn't mean more theft/violence by more addicts to get
more money to buy more drugs legally?
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
So, more people addicted to drugs wouldn't mean more theft/violence by more addicts to get
more money to buy more drugs legally? |
No, see, in a legalized market, cocaine or heroin would fall to its intrinsic value as a simple plant product. Users could purchase heroin in, say,
5lb bags, like sugar, at a similar price to sugar. So stealing just one car stereo could get them enough smack to stay hyped up for a long, long time,
with a net reduction in crime. And if they try to use too much of their cheap stuff to fast, they will never steal again.
Will there be more addicts? Maybe a few, but hey, are YOU going to start using crack if it becomes legal?
Now there are still a few wrinkles to work out. For the worst addicts, we'll need to find free rent and free food so they don't break into our homes
and steal our new HDTVs to pay the rent.
And of course, for those who make a living selling the stuff, hmmm. A job training program?
No perfect solution, but I still favor legalizing. Let people make their own decisions.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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For the worst addicts, a hot load.
For the dealers...we create jails to be used as "parts departments". Some decent person needs a kidney....send down # 248640 Throw in anyone
convicted of two violent crimes also...
need an eye for a blind kid, send down # 2753901
oh it vould be goot. I vas only following orders!
Herr George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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BERNIE - every country within Europe has different Taxregulations.Can speak only for my country -AUSTRIA. IF you are employed, taxes and other fees
(insurance etc.) are MONTHLY deducted, directly from the salary.
Selfemployed people pay once a year (retrospective).
Will U2U details asap.
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The Sculpin
Nomad
Posts: 401
Registered: 9-3-2002
Location: Back in the Saddle
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding into the Sunset, looking for a sunrise.
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While I am in favor of "legalizing" drugs, it will never happen becuase it is too good a source of cash for shadowy government agencies. Can't get
something on your budget approved, or rather don't want the scrutiny on a "special project"? That's fine....just move a few tons of afghani tar from
one country to another in trade for some nice firepower that you can in turn give to these rebels...no, freedom fighters so they can kick butt on
these insurgents. Not bad for a days work.
As a side, the CIA was pumping so many $100 bills into Kurdistan before Gulf War II that the cheapest anything cost over there was $100!! The chiefs
then asked if the CIA could bring in $20's, but the operatives said no...they wold have to more than quadruple the amount of people trekking over the
mountains in order to carry in the extra cash!!! Talk about unforseen logistics.
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Summanus
Anybody want to talk about the 'drug' to treat drug addicts?
I used to watch my heroin addicts walk into the Methadone Clinic at 13th and Market to get their moring cup of methadone 'so they would not have
withdrawels from the "BAD STUFF." Just a little paper cup, like slugging down a shot of tequila, and off they went.......................to steal so
they could score the real stuff.
Most interesting this drug stuff.........many sided and the comment that I agree with most is, 'I DON'T WANT BIG GOVERNMENT TELLING ME WHAT TO DO.
I would suggest a fool proof that worked for the Native Indians everytime they tried it..............banishment!
One link to methadone http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/met... there are many.
One of the problems in this area is that those who really understand and know what they are talking about are seldom really listened to because guys
like me question their motives after reading about many leading intellectuals abusing the stuff themselves..............Freud is one Leaky or is it
Leary is another.........there are many...................
This is a sorta fun activity.............we sure as heck are not going to solve the problem and the mantra of legalizing the stuff sure ain't an
intellectual approach. Sorry if that offends but there are just far too many mantra's out there.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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rebuttal??? I ain't gonna live that long...gp
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Summanus
"I am following one particular stream.. 'the harm that can come to people from legaizing addictive drugs'..."
Spoken like a Thunder God.
That is so to the point that it really hurts...............A long time ago I had a 16 year son who I was so proud of that the smile on my face
actually hurt.
He got messed up with marijuana and the courts answer, and mine, to that was that he enlist in the Army. Graduated at the top of his class in Air
Missle School.........So proud............came home and got involved with his drug friends again....................went AWOL and the hurt really
began. I won't go into it all but it painted his straight sisters as losers in school........................stole from us..............and then
ripped off the Hell's Angels for a load of speed................Have not seen him since because he is afraid to come back to California. Calls every
once in a while to scratch off the scabs.
Oh! Yeah! Those big dudes who ride choppers came by the house, once, asking for Bernie. I said that was me and they said no...........a younger
kid.........I excused myself and grabbed my combat masterpiece and invited them to leave with the comment, as I flashed my badge, that I had about a
thousand friends who could make life miserable for them.
Like good businessmen they left and have never been back.
Now, All you Nomads know my real bias in this matter.
I KNOW of others on this board who have very similar hurts and who remain silent. I totally understand their desire not to be hurt any
further......................but come on that is what allows the BS to continue.
[Edited on 1-9-2007 by Baja Bernie]
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Wow, Bernie! That's a mind blower of a story.
I was that 16 year old kid once. I had a dad who was a cop and a private jet pilot. A real flat top hair cut red neck. Even had a harley full dresser.
I say red neck but really he was a real red blooded american type.
I was a mess by then and any dreams of college were fading fast. Funny because I had been a youth football athlete with dreams of going to the Air
Force Academy. But at the rate I was going it would be a miracle if I finished high school.
Smoking pot, drinking beer riding around in cars skipping school.
How'd it happen?
We moved a lot when I was a kid and I was always the new kid, the outsider. So one day I met this group of kids and they didn't reject me. They were
also the outcasts. So instead of being in with the in crowd I was suddenly out with the out crowd. And the out crowd had something that I had been
very curious about for a long time... pot!
Before meeting them I had tried to get pot. Once I was given chewing tobbaco and was told it was hash. I was told to eat it and I would get high. I
got high alright and then very sick. Another time I was given cat nip that I paid $5 for. When I showed it off on the school bus the kids who knew
what pot really was started laughing at me. I took it back to school and sold it to another kid for $5 and of course I got caught by the school. Since
it wasn't real pot the couldn't do anything. But they were such a-holes about it. It was kind of the beginning of my resentment for authority.
So the out crowd had the real thing and I "got high" for the first time.
I laughed so hard the I fell to the ground. It seemed like the thing I had been waiting for. I had friends and we had pot and now I was part of the
counterculture. I was a hippie. I was 13 and it was 1973.
I didn't need the straight world or any of their rules or authority.
That went on all the way through high school and it was a miracle but I did graduate.
I drifted for a couple of years after. I slowly began to realise that I had blown it big time. The outcasts were losers for the most part and all of
our rebellion and self distuctive behavior was getting us no where and fast. A few died very young.
I had taken the military placement test in school and had done well. So at a time when not many people were going in the military I dusted of my Air
Force dream and enlisted. All I had to do was stay clean long enough to pass the drug screen and I was in.
It wasn't the Academy but I was back on the right track. 6 years later it was a miracle that I got my honorable discharge. The ironic thing is that
some people in the military use drug. You can't get away from drugs. You just get real good at hiding your use.
All kids in this world are going to be exposed to drugs. The day will come and they are going to have to make a decision. Are they going to be curious
like I was? What will they do?
I have a son. He is 12. He knows about pot. He's seen me and his mom smoke it. He has a 15 year old cousin that smokes it.
One of the biggest reasons I quit is him. Not the only reason but a very important reason.
One of these days one of his little buddies is going to offer him some pot. When that day comes I hope he thinks about me and how I quit. I quit
because pot is bad for you. I've told him so. So I hope he makes the right decision. But it will be his decision to make. The same with alcohol and
tabbaco.
Legal or illegal? Does it really matter? It's really about choices and decisions insn't it?
[Edited on 1-9-2007 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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Legal or not, do you think if your prone to that crap, you're gonna go that way anyhow?
I simply think the legalization will lessen the crime rate.
I smoked grass (inhaled it too) and that was in my early twenties (Nam), it did not lead me to the further use of harder drugs...Put it behind me and
that was that...
Bernie, I worked along side cops my whole career in the FDNY, South Bronx, feel real bad for you about your son.........george
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Guess it all boils down to personal choices, genetics, good support systems, and a lot of luck. But that's life.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Sometimes there are "good endings" to these stories. My son because of a divorce & "went to live with his mother". She was bad influence.
Spending summers & spring break & Christmas with "dad" didn't keep him from "the influence". When you have a "user" in the family, it's kind
of accepted it's o.k. Otherwise, why would they be doing it????? From about 16 years of age on until he turned about 24, I didn't have a 'normal'
experience with my son like so many 'lucky' parents did. But he's clean, married, graduated from a community college with a degree in Digital
Computer Technology. Making $60K a year & advancing in his job. Success story. We became involved in the 'local' support group during his
'problem times' Kicked out of Adapt three times. 30 day lock up ($10,000.00) 45 days later because he went back to his "friends" got dirty again.
Hey folks. There is one heck of an industry out there because of drugs. Start with the money the dealers collect. Then add the police force to
enforce the laws. Then add the attornies who defend. Don't forget the prosecutors who are doing their job. Plus Parole Officers. Then the court
secretaries.
Judges. Then all the 'recovery' people. Like Adapt & others. Half way houses. I don't think I've touched the tip of the iceberg here as far as how
far a "toke" goes. Oh yes. Also the DARE program. O.K. Count the dollars of taxpayer money that is spent here for salary & overhead. Legalize
drugs??? You've got to be kidding me?????? You must believe there is a santa claus also. And good tooth fairy, too. And the worse part is, I
haven't a clue what the answer is. But I do know that someone needs to step to the plate & invent one. So far nothing has worked. Would it be
that stay at home mom's might help? Go back two generations & instill the moral & fundementals of christian fellowship?? What's happening
here?
Go to a junior high school sometime and just be an observer of the dress codes being allowed. And hair styles from Mad Maxx!!! Eye shadow &
mascara on grade school girls, and provocative dressing. We are a society gone mad with our values & moral decline. Sin & booze shall
destroy our earth. Oh yes. And I guess now days we need to add 'drugs' to that one.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
As far as I am concerned they can legalize drugs. The "war on drugs" has been a failure; we've gone from hippies smuggling a couple of keys to
murderous para-military narco armies. Meanwhile we wait in line for hours at the border as if it really makes any difference. The best enforcement can
do is to keep prices high, so the addicts have to steal more of our stuff to pay for their habits.
However, legalizing drugs could have other consequences. For example, consider those who profit from the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. Take
away their profits by legalizing, what will they do next? Get jobs? |
The way to put a stop to the drug
czars is to remove the profit from their illegal operations. Let the gov. sell it and tax it, much like booze is handled in Canada. As to the
impact on society I believe booze has had a greater negative impact than all of the so called "illigal" drugs combined...... CaboRon
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bernie
BUT!
..........Only thing left is the hoar houses. |
Let's legalize those too .............CaboRon
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