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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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yes this ids ture but...
you have to "bend over" to get stuff out
and...
the stuff you need is ALWAYS on the bottom
side by side is the best option for us "old guys"
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edinnopolo
Nomad
Posts: 138
Registered: 5-1-2005
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Mood: laid back
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And even in a side by side everything is always on the bottom in the freezer and behind loads of sh@t in the fridge.
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rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
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BROWNOUTS AND RANDOM NOTES
Here at the ranch, we imported all our (Whirlpool) appliances from Sears in Chula Vista. Worked fine for 5 years until a short across a ceramic
insulator created a prolonged brownout which we caught too late - the fridge and the stove were toast. PANIC.
In La Paz Sr. Talamantes fixed the fridge with a part from Monterrey in 3 days. The stove was more problematic, but found the needed part on the
Internet (computer board), and a friend brought it from Phoenix. Plug'n' Play.
Friends to the south on solar threw out their propane fridges and bought an LG after research (both are engineers) - very happy.
Was very impressed with Juan and Shari's electric on-demand water heaters in Asuncion - I saw those widely in Europe but they never caught on in the
States. We have Bosch on-demand propane heaters on the ranch - they are unreliable and would not use again.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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If you can't eat it or wear it in 6 months, why bother to keep it?
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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Ensenada
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Mood: ando bajando
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| Quote: | | [Was very impressed with Juan and Shari's electric on-demand water heaters in Asuncion - I saw those widely in Europe but they never caught on in the
States. We have Bosch on-demand propane heaters on the ranch - they are unreliable and would not use again. |
we bought the aqua star tankless hot water heater at lowe's in 2000 and have been glad to have it. saves gas and water. only problem is it was
initially installed wrong so that we had periodic "explosions" when a valve would get stuck. we purchased a bosch here. terrible. (limited ability
to set water temp, always frigid or scalding, never "just right"). put back the original aqua star after contacting the manufacturer and installing
the little part (filter) that was not installed originally. hot water heater has worked beautifully ever since.
lili
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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The majority of Mabe stoves are indeed a manual adjust on the oven and this is shown by number 1-5 or so on the control knob, but they do make an
automatic control unit, which is a little more expensive and the number are in Centigrade from 100-150. This is an automatic control and works just
fine.
The Mabe and the LG refrigerators and not much more expensive, at least at Abrahams in Santa Rosalia than their counterparts in the US and there is
no duty to pay, which is a nice feature as far as I am concerned.
One thing to be aware of is that stoves and refrigerators that are made in the US are built around a steady power supply whereas the stoves and
refrigerators built in Mexico have no electrical controls that blow out when you have brownouts and power surges. When we watched our friends who had
brought good units down from the US and then we talked to an appliance person who was in the know, he reported that in terms of longetivity, the
Mexican units generally outlasted the US units because of this fact.
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wakemall
Nomad
Posts: 183
Registered: 7-17-2006
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I have a Mabe stove and ref/freezer in my house in Loreto. So does my neighbor. I love the six-burner gas stove.... The refrigerator is medium size
and works great. The door rack brackets on the refrigerator sucked and always feel out if the door was opened rapidly. Clear tape fixed that. Great
room until my brother want to stuff two cases of Pacifico bottles in there.
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.
I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.
What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.
I currently use the solar for low wattage 110 volt neon lights and for a 12 volt water pump.
I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)
I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.
I have a 3000 watt inverter, max 4500 Mod sine wave. (The true sine wave will/may come in the future.)
Bedman
[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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number one get one of these...
killawatt
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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refridg uses about 120-150w when running
in winter no problems
in summer ours runs alot when the temp is aboove 90 degrees
you need more batteries to last thru the night if you use electric appliances
this last year i've used 40 marine 105ah batteries from walmart
wired at 24v
problem with so many batteries is the cables
get BIG ones (expensive) and
they have such SMALL watering holes
everytime i water the batteries or clean cables my shorts get MORE holes
for full time use don't skimp on batteries or solar
contact solatron in victorville
http://www.partsonsale.com/
carol@partsonsale.com is the mgr
they fix stuff right there if you have a problem
it's worth the drive to save on shipping
and see their place
most solar sales places work out of a garage or just dropship items
no support after the sale
you NEED to get a true-sinewave inverter
(no noise)
some appliances dont run on modified sinewave
power is the key
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oxxo
Super Nomad
Posts: 2137
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
number one get one of these...
killawatt |
Bob, how does this thing work? How do you use it? I imagine it provides some sort of readout. How does that readout help you in your energy use?
Thanks.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Living off the grid is one big learning experience.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Save your money read:
http://www.oksolar.com/technical/consumption.html
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bedman
Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.
I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.
What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.
I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)
I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.
Bedman
[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman] |
Bedman,
This website lists the kilowatt usage of several different model refrigerators: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.search...
From my calculations a good energy efficient 14 or 15 cubic foot refrigerator uses about 1050 watts/day.
In calculating for the amount of solar panels and batteries I used the following criteria:
-I calculated for winter when there is less charging time. In the summer the fridge will use more watts, but to compensate, there is more charging
time and fewer cloudy days.
-Fridge uses 1050 watts/day
-Three days of battery power storage to allow for a string of cloudy days (5 would be better).
-I'm assuming you're in BCS, if your panels are installed properly, you should have about 5 hours of peak charging/day in the winter.
-Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%.
-Average temp in the battery room in the 70's in the winter (cold batteries are less efficient).
For the fridge only, you will need an additional 5.2-65 watt panels and an additional 655 amps of battery capacity for three days of storage and 1092
extra amps for 5 days of storage.
I'd round up to the next highest number of solar panels, in other words 5.2 panels=6 panels.
If your batteries are 99.5 amp? You will need 7additional batteries for three days of power storage and 11 batteries for 5 days of extra amp storage.
Your 3000 watt inverter should be fine.
Also, adding more panels will probably exceed the capacity of your charge controller, so an additional cost to consider is an additional or larger
charge controller.
For those who use 175 watt panels you would need 2.2 (recommend 3) extra panels. Same battery storage.
Also Bob reported his fridge uses 150 watts/hr, but the fridge motor is not running 24hrs a day, so you have to average the actual running time over
24 hours to get a true energy use figure.
I'm not a solar expert, I'm self taught, but I used the same calculations for our house and it worked out fine.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bedman
Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.
I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.
What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.
I currently use the solar for low wattage 110 volt neon lights and for a 12 volt water pump.
I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)
I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.
I have a 3000 watt inverter, max 4500 Mod sine wave. (The true sine wave will/may come in the future.)
Bedman
[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman] |
Bedman...this may give you some ideals on solar refrigerators...at least the power consumption and panels...
http://www.partsonsale.com/sundanzer.html
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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the killawatt is sold at your local "harbor freight"
about $30....cheaper on ebay if you want to wait
all you do is plug it into the socket and plug the appliance into it...
the readings show on the dial
real easy
this way you get a TRUE reading of what each piece of electrical equipment used
for example :
our trailer converter uses 700w
fridg 150w
freezer 150w
toaster oven 1500w
ice maker 700w
led lights 3w
9v converter charger for the camera 1w
one fan 55w 65w 80w
another fan 70w 80w 90w
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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"Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%"
this is what everyone states
reality is ...
our 24v inverter will not work below 22.6volts
too much voltage drop...
and batteries do not charge above 25.6 new
(you can go to 26 but it wont stay)
so the reality is you can only use stored engery of about 3.0 volts of battery power
much less than half as i would calculate it ...
but...
i've read that this IS half....
different way of calculating what HALF is
complicated
all i know is experience
i had 20 - 100ah batteries
these could hold a current of the 150w fridge all night
they couldn't hold the charge for the added freezer
40 will hold the charge for both plus a few lights and computer play
the batteries are 3 years old with a life of 5 yrs
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
"Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%"
this is what everyone states
reality is ...
our 24v inverter will not work below 22.6volts
too much voltage drop...
and batteries do not charge above 25.6 new
(you can go to 26 but it wont stay)
so the reality is you can only use stored engery of about 3.0 volts of battery power
much less than half as i would calculate it ...
but...
i've read that this IS half....
different way of calculating what HALF is
complicated
all i know is experience
i had 20 - 100ah batteries
these could hold a current of the 150w fridge all night
they couldn't hold the charge for the added freezer
40 will hold the charge for both plus a few lights and computer play
the batteries are 3 years old with a life of 5 yrs |
You make a valid point...the operating voltage is not (in a 12v Bat.)
6v to 12v cannot be...there is some equipment that will function below 50%...but 50% is 11.2v to 13.2 with hot battery at 14.4...this depending on
age
Edit...fumble fingers
[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
Member Is Offline
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I calculated a 50% drop to be 12v, 75% 12.3 and full charge over 12.6. I believe most of the older modified signwave inverters cut off at something
below 12v so he should be fine. I think...
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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Bob,
Pretty cool gadget and I LOVE Harbor Freight. Maybe my downfall!
So far, we've only used the solar for lights. I imagine as we spend more time in Baja, we may need more solar and batteries, but I think I may stick
with the LPG frige idea or Al G's 12 volt frige. If you haven't looked at it yet, take a peek, Pretty Cool. http://www.partsonsale.com/sundanzer.html
Comitan,
For me it's a "Learning Swerve!" The OKSolar site has some excellent info, Thanks.
BigWooo,
Exactly what I asked for. Great information and I thank you for all your effort.
Al G,
The Sun Danzer product looks Great. And requires a lot less solar equipment. This may be Exactly what I'm looking for. We really don't need a BIG
frige. Just one large enough for a few days of storage. Thank you.
I'm still working at the last store and clearing things out. So kind of busy with that project for now. We'll be in BOLA sometime after the 10th of
Oct. for four weeks or so and then back to the states for a month.....When we return for our Annual New Years party, I hope to have made a decision on
what were going to do for refrigeration in the kitchen and will post our decision then.
Again, Thank you all for all the Great information and first hand advice.
Bedman
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