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Author: Subject: San Francisquito Crash/ story and photos
Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 12-10-2008 at 10:27 AM


Barry:
Why did not you guys take out that Tri-Pacer that sat at Bay of Los Angeles for so many years???

Also did you get involved in the Nut Tree Owners Crash as they were decending into the BaY??

Guy named Powers whose family owned the Nutreee near Vacaville got caught in a Wind Shear, lost the Wings when making a Descent into Bay of Los Angeles.

P>S. I am still trying to locate anyone who knows about the Twin Engine Aircraft sunk in the Mud off of Pt Chivato.

Anyone Know??

Skeet
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Ken Cooke
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[*] posted on 7-29-2012 at 11:14 PM


Bump - Add this to discussion on recent Baja plane crashes.



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Barry A.
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[*] posted on 7-30-2012 at 08:56 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Barry:
Why did not you guys take out that Tri-Pacer that sat at Bay of Los Angeles for so many years???

Also did you get involved in the Nut Tree Owners Crash as they were decending into the BaY??

Guy named Powers whose family owned the Nutreee near Vacaville got caught in a Wind Shear, lost the Wings when making a Descent into Bay of Los Angeles.

P>S. I am still trying to locate anyone who knows about the Twin Engine Aircraft sunk in the Mud off of Pt Chivato.

Anyone Know??

Skeet


I missed this question by Skeet back in '08.

Skeet------(if your still lurking) I did not know of, or get involved in the "Powers" crash at BOLA. Nor was I aware, or simply don't remember, the "Tri-Pacer" at BOLA. I do know that Jim Bracamonte was mostly interested in Beech aircraft, and certain Cessna, and had no Piper's in his fleet------most of his recoveries in Baja were for planes that he could add to his working fleet.

In answer to Capt. Mike's long-ago inquiry------I really was only involved it two recoveries in Baja, and I am afraid that I really don't have any more "stories" to tell, sadly. But yes, Jim Bracamonte and Dutch Schultz had a long history in Baja Aviation. I believe that Jim built the second motel at BOLA (Villa Vita) but that was after I had left his employ and was back east for several years flying for the Dept of Interior (National Park Service)..

Thanks, David for resurrecting this thread.

Barry
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David K
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[*] posted on 7-30-2012 at 09:07 AM


Good Morning Barry... It was Ken Cooke who reserected this 4 year old thread... I was just as surprised as you to see it in Today's Posts, again!



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[*] posted on 7-30-2012 at 09:31 AM


Thanks for the bump Ken, and appropriate in connecting to the Carlos Fiesta thread concerning fuel starvation. This was a very interesting post and demonstrates a great deal of skill on the part of both pilots resulting in everyone walking away in one piece. (any landing you walk away from is a good one)The pilot helping the aircraft and controllers did a masterful job of providing situational awareness to an obviously shaken King Air crew and heading them to what had to be the only viable option around for landing. Very few pilots would think that fast on their feet in a situation like this. Running out of fuel is an unforgivable error as far as the FAA is concerned. This one had the best ending for a bad situation under very difficult circumstances. Other than the fuel screwup the King Air pilot did a great job and also was very lucky.
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[*] posted on 7-30-2012 at 11:03 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Thanks for the bump Ken, and appropriate in connecting to the Carlos Fiesta thread concerning fuel starvation.


You are welcome. I came upon Carlos Fiesta's sticker in my 'goodies' bag of Baja stickers and thought about when I saw him at David K's "Viva Baja" luncheon in San Clemente many years ago.




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Barry A.
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[*] posted on 7-30-2012 at 11:21 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Good Morning Barry... It was Ken Cooke who reserected this 4 year old thread... I was just as surprised as you to see it in Today's Posts, again!


Ooooops!!!! Thanks David, and Thank You, Ken for bringing this old thread to the forefront----very appropriate. Sorry for the mistake in credits--------my bad!!!

Barry
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[*] posted on 10-16-2013 at 06:22 PM


You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright. Then there is the land usage. Where ever the A/C sits there will be rent to pay day by day for the use of that land. If there is any subsequent damage like a broken cactus or something that costs too.King Airs are big Boy Toys so let the insurance companies figure it out. Nobody was hurt..Fantastic......



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[*] posted on 10-16-2013 at 07:30 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by apogee
You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright.


I never knew this.:cool: Lots happens under the radar...




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[*] posted on 10-17-2013 at 01:09 AM


I actually know a bit more about this story. I met the copilot at Rainbow Air. That was the air ambulance/charter company that owned the KingAir.
The pilot didn't work for them anymore.
He flat out told me they just screwed up on the fuel load. A miscalculation.
Rainbow had been at Long Beach a long time. But they were gone before I left Long Beach in 2011.
They struggled along as a small time flight school for a while. But they never could get insurance after the accident. So they folded.
I flew with the copilot. He was working as a flight instructor there still.
The plane was disassembled and trucked out. Don't know if it was put back together or scraped. Probably the latter. I guess if the tail number is in the photos we could find out.
The guy was about 10 to 20 knots from a good landing. But you can imagine that he would be reluctant to give away his airspeed before landing.
I know I would.



[Edited on 10-17-2013 by fishbuck]




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[*] posted on 10-17-2013 at 06:16 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck
The plane was disassembled and trucked out. Don't know if it was put back together or scraped. Probably the latter. I guess if the tail number is in the photos we could find out.


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[*] posted on 10-17-2013 at 06:24 AM


FAA reports the tail number as deregistered.
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[*] posted on 10-17-2013 at 09:40 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by apogee
You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright. Then there is the land usage. Where ever the A/C sits there will be rent to pay day by day for the use of that land. If there is any subsequent damage like a broken cactus or something that costs too.King Airs are big Boy Toys so let the insurance companies figure it out. Nobody was hurt..Fantastic......


It's my understanding that one of the advantages of having the "NEW" Residente Permanente status is that you are allowed to work in Mexico. Maybe it's different for aircraft mechanics?




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[*] posted on 1-15-2014 at 12:19 PM


In my years as an aircraft Accident Investigator for a large Insurane Company I removed serveral Aircraft out of Baja.
One of them was prior to the road opening so I went across the Ferry to pt chavito , took the wings oof and transported it back across to the States.
did not have any trouble withe officials as all I had to do was contact the Local Aircraft Rep, pay him $150.00 get a signed permission slip and bring it back.

The only time I had to steal a Plane was out of Navajo , A stolen Cessna had been landed, left running with doors open near a small village. I could not locate the Local Offical so I fueled up the Plane, took off from the Road and sneeked under the Radar at mexicali.

There is no excuse for a Pilot running out of fuel. It is simple Pilot Error as was 98% of all Aircraft Accidents in those years.

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Barry A.
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[*] posted on 1-15-2014 at 12:36 PM


When I was working for JimsAir at San Diego Lindberg in the '60's, we hauled and flew many an aircraft out of Baja in various stages of repair, or in pieces. NONE were ever scrapped. We just rebuilt them at our facility at Lindberg Field, changed the N-number thru re-registration, and sold them or put then on our flightline for charter or rental. We even barged a big Beech twin tail-dragger that went in near Cabo----hauled it out to the coast in pieces, put it on a barge and on to San Diego, put it back together, and viola a great new charter plane.

Whatever it took--------we got it done. The "good ol days" :lol:

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[*] posted on 1-15-2014 at 05:09 PM


I miss the Good Ol Days! I am not even old enough to remember most of them! :lol:



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[*] posted on 1-16-2014 at 12:52 AM


I worked for a company called Parts Network in Orange County for a while. We specialized in finding flyable but high time Piper Navajo Chieftains and salvaging them. There were many produced and a lot of them are still flying. Problem is Piper stopped making parts for them many years back.
So if you own one it is very difficult to find the parts if you need them. This holds true for many models of aircraft.
We would find one located somewhere in the US and fly there commercially.
Then we would rent a big U-HAUL truck and drive it to the airport where the Piper was located.
We took off every part of value that we could and put it into the truck.
At the end all that was left was the aluminum... fuselage, tail, and wings sitting on top of 3 50 gallon drums.
The boss would fly home to Orange County and I would drive the truck home and meet him at the warehouse.
We had every part you would ever need on shelf after shelf.
After we left the airplane carcass at the airport an aluminum scraper would show up and chop it into small pieces and put them into his truck to be taken to a smelter.
So I would imagine that was the fate of the King Air from San Francisquito. I'm sure there is a very high demand for serviceable used King Air parts. King Airs are still in production but new parts would be very expensive.
But who knows... maybe the old girl got a second chance at life...

[Edited on 1-16-2014 by fishbuck]




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[*] posted on 1-16-2014 at 07:37 AM


This was a post which I read with great interest. I am a retired professional helicopter pilot including medevac. Over years of flying I had those "close call" incidents that could have gone bad but didn't. I feel terrible for the crew but I am glad it was only bent metal. I know the crew feels embarrassment but it is what it is and the story will be told. Over the years, I saw several unfortunate things develop and fade away. This too shall pass.

It was interesting hearing about the situation occur in Mexican airspace and the sparse runway options. Thanks for sharing it.
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[*] posted on 1-16-2014 at 10:53 AM


All these stories of crashed airplanes makes me glad I only drive in Baja..if I run out of fuel I only have to pull over and refill...try that with an plane.



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[*] posted on 1-16-2014 at 11:42 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Terry28
All these stories of crashed airplanes makes me glad I only drive in Baja..if I run out of fuel I only have to pull over and refill...try that with an plane.


Slow and safe...

I flew from Alfonsina's (Gonzaga Bay) to Oceanside, CA in the Cessna of Doug Bowles in 1999. Doug had the home with a hot tub, just north of Alfonsina's restaurant and he used to fly in supplies regularly for Alfonsina's from Long Beach.

On a return flight north from Gonzaga, Doug flew his plane into the mountain near Palm Springs (bad weather), on board were passengers including his grandson. A case of 'get home-itis'? Very sad.

Another friend (of most of us Baja folks) was Carlos Fiesta (Chuck Chambers) flying home with two friends after watching the 2010 Baja 1000 at Scorpion Bay... ran out of fuel over Newport Beach, all died after a water landing in the lagoon flipped the plane.

Plane crashes are not good. Those guys in San Francisquito a very lucky indeed!




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