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Ricardo
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Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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Dennis yeah I just that was a bit of a ruuun-on sentence. My point was there are many people that live all over this planet that have purchased land
in mexico. Trough consulates and lawyers etc but actually don't go to mexico very often thus they don't have or need a Visa be it a FM-T through To a
FM 2 .Squid is suggesting that they don't have rights to ownership. yet the gov't of mexico approved all the steps and title was issued.
These same owners have paid taxes etc so how can it be that they don't own thier property.
Hope thats better.
Rick
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by squid
O.K., this is discussed over.. and over... and over again.
(but don't you worry, there are always some guys here who know everything better than the INM. Those i.e. who purchased land holding an FMT)
FM-T : You have no rights at all other than entering the country. You have to leave within 180 days. You are not allowed to sign contracts
whats-o-ever !!!
Any contract you sign without an FM-3/2 is illegal and you might loose whatever you purchased on an FMT. Cars. Homes. Bankaccounts. everything. We had
this discussion before.
FM-3 : you have very limited rights i.e. you can stay for one year. You can open a bankaccount. Sign legal and other contracts. etc. etc. Renewal
before 12 month required.
FM-2 : after holding an FM-3 for 5 years you can apply ( ! - no guarante that you get it ) for an FM-2. If you 'own' land on a Fido (Banktrust) you
can shorten that time by 2 years. Owning land free and clear on any FM is out of discussion. Mexico belongs to the Mexicans-and we want to keep it
this way. Period |
This just in................non-Mexicans own lots of Mexico free and clear. Just not along the coasts.
Oh, yeah. PERIOD! 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ricardo
Squid is suggesting |
Thanks Rick.
Without getting into the details which you're responding to, let me make a suggestion. Don't listen to that squid person. She has been the cause of
nothing but trouble here and her opinions, such as her last one here, are usually caustic, antagonistic and xenophobic. She has earned the
consideration to be ignored.
Her reaction to this, if she chooses to do that, will attest to what I say.
Thanks again for your response.
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squid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-23-2009
Location: Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ricardo
Dennis yeah I just that was a bit of a ruuun-on sentence. My point was there are many people that live all over this planet that have purchased land
in mexico. Trough consulates and lawyers etc but actually don't go to mexico very often thus they don't have or need a Visa be it a FM-T through To a
FM 2 .Squid is suggesting that they don't have rights to ownership. yet the gov't of mexico approved all the steps and title was issued.
These same owners have paid taxes etc so how can it be that they don't own thier property.
Hope thats better.
Rick |
Now comes Mr. " know it all" (like any time here when facts are facts.
Rick, name ONE landowner in Baja California Norte or Sur (and this is a Baja Forum, not a mainland forum out of the 50 Km zone where you can purchase
land like you said) who purchased any land w/o any FM and got the title free and clear without any FM and Fido.
Just ONE !!!! to prove your big mouth post.
(Addendum: anybody who got the gutts can travel into Mexico without any FM > just don't get caught: its prison time or maybe a fat mordida might do
the trick. But it is illegal anyway. Havin' any accident w/o FM??? Jailtime!
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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Squid I wasn't being a big mouth post, But I would like to know the diffence, are you saying that if a person bought property with a Fido has paid
taxes for years but hasn't been able to visit Mexico for a few years, Did all the paperwork legally through a consulate and notary etc has the papers
all registered and approved etc, But as they haven't been in mexico to purchase a Visa FM of any sort then thier title / fido is no longer legal?
Thanks Rick
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Ricardo
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Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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Squid I'm sorry but I do seem to be confused, Lets try again I understand THe 50 KM zone and I understand The Fido. But whaT I don't understand is the
need a FM3 to own land or holdings. can you own land etc with out a FM of any sort? as example what if you bought land in BAJA but did it through a
Consulate , a Notary and a power of attourny, All legal, all signed in Lapaz, and Mexico City. If you don't go to BAJA very often can't you be a
landowner? I think many people are
Thanks again Rick
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squid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-23-2009
Location: Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ricardo
Squid I'm sorry but I do seem to be confused, Lets try again I understand THe 50 KM zone and I understand The Fido. But whaT I don't understand is the
need a FM3 to own land or holdings. can you own land etc with out a FM of any sort? as example what if you bought land in BAJA but did it through a
Consulate , a Notary and a power of attourny, All legal, all signed in Lapaz, and Mexico City. If you don't go to BAJA very often can't you be a
landowner? I think many people are
Thanks again Rick |
Rick, nothing to thank for in the first place.
Now, if you buy land in Baja through a lawfirm etc. etc. as you explained, I am not sure that that is legal w/o holding an FM-3/2. I doubt it. But
money makes the world going around - and in Mexico mordida is doing any [well, most] tricks. But is it legal deal, even if you got all papers? I doubt
it again. And it would be not the first case where a deal went trough but b/c of some "mordida tricks' the deal busted years later.
And don't you think that ALL Ambassy employees are honest and not taking mordida. Even in the U.S. money makes everything possible and puts a seal
under a document.
What's defenately illegal: if you - the new landowner - are traveling to Baja w/o an FM-3/2.
ANY (private!) landowner must have an FM-3/2 > no exception. Corporations excluded of course. But you talked about "I know many folks owning land
free and clear" So it was clear to me that you are talking about private individuals
So what do you need a piece of land for if you can't use it?
Well, let grow grass and weeds on it and sell it after some years making profit is certainly an option. Just owning it and let folks build a resort
might be another option. But using it for yourself, maybe building a home on it?? Impossible.
Are the skies clear now?
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schwlind
Nomad
Posts: 362
Registered: 8-30-2008
Location: Daytona Beach, FL/San Antonio Del Mar (Colonet)
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I'm not trying to stir the pot, so please don't anyone jump on me... but what if you have a business FM3 (which you must have if you are a
director/officer of a Mexican Corporation). I seem to recall that you cannot (easily) go to an FM2 (which is what I would like to do) to eventually
obtain dual citizenship (US/Mexico)? My esposo has the rentista FM3, and was told that Immigration may allow me to apply for FM2 status if he obtains
his FM2, but is there even such a thing as FM2 that would still allow you to conduct business in MX? Also, would it not be true that if you did
finally become a Mexican citizen, you could own property in the Restricted Zone outright (even though it is my understanding that only natural born
citizens of MX can ever vote)??? If this has been answered in the past, I apologize, but am still not clear on these issues.
[Edited on 11-14-2009 by schwlind]
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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The following was written by a Mexican lawyer in a private communication to me. It's about 5 years old.
http://www.maldonadomarkham.com/Tijuana-Attorney.htm
=============================
FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from
investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.
FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.
FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family
relationship.
FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family
relationship with a Mexican national.
FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that
it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000
if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate.
FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico.
FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.
==============================
Squiddly, I think, but am not 100% sure, that there is land in BC along the road between Ensenada and San Felipe that is more than 100 km from the
border and more than 50 km from either coast.
Any map experts around?
[Edited on 11-14-2009 by k-rico]
[Edited on 11-14-2009 by k-rico]
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squid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-23-2009
Location: Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The following was written by a Mexican lawyer in a private communication to me. It's about 5 years old.
http://www.maldonadomarkham.com/Tijuana-Attorney.htm
=============================
FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from
investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.
FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.
FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family
relationship.
FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family
relationship with a Mexican national.
FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that
it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000
if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate.
FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico.
FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.
==============================
Squiddly, I think, but am not 100% sure, that there is land in BC along the road between Ensenada and San Felipe that is more than 100 km from the
border and more than 50 km from either coast.
Any map experts around?
[Edited on 11-14-2009 by k-rico]
[Edited on 11-14-2009 by k-rico] |
First of all::: Thanks for the exceptionally good info. That clears the skys. I did say it in other words but by far not so good as your post means
not in such good details.
Again, Thanks
About the spot / land which is more than 50 Km from either side of the coastline in Baja. You are right about that.
I referred to that point in an earlier post in this thread. But, even though, ALL of Baja is considered within the 50Km zone.
There is another example of 'mas o menos' politics of Mexico.
The 50Km zone i.e. south of Guaymas is extended to more than 50kilometers from the border. That is done for tourists and permanents alike to make it
easier to live and drive w/ their cars. Remember, you can not enter the mainland outside the 50Km zone with a car holding a Baja license plate. That
license plate allows you ONLY to drive within the zone. Other you import that car permanently and getting a different plate.
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twogringos
Nomad
Posts: 181
Registered: 1-7-2007
Location: Bahia Asuncion/Color-Country
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Mood: I feel more like I do now than I ever have before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
I can not confirm if there is a required time period with fm-3 or not as there was before. But yes everyone should be on the fm-2 track who who wants
to stay and with 2 years on FM-2 you can go permanent migratorio or naturalized using the DNN form. |
I can confirm that in La Paz, in 2009, you can get a FM-2 directly from a FMT and if you have a Fidecosimo. I can not find any collaboration that you
can file for naturalization after only two years on the FM-2.
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Tano
Nomad
Posts: 106
Registered: 10-20-2009
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What’s with all this equivocal information? It sounds like immigration officials take options written on pieces of paper out of hat. Isn’t there
something in writing where all this is spelled out?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tano
It sounds like immigration officials take options written on pieces of paper out of hat. |
They do just that. Deal with the Ensenada office and you will soon see what I mean. If one could afford to get the ear of whoever they answer to, it
probably still wouldn't matter. Arguing with these people is a losing proposition.
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Tano
Nomad
Posts: 106
Registered: 10-20-2009
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What about arguing with the actual código in your hands?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tano
What about arguing with the actual código in your hands? |
That would be upstageing them. They really hate it when you do that.
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Tano
Nomad
Posts: 106
Registered: 10-20-2009
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That sounds like chaos to me.
Did you say, “Kaos,” Max?
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tano
What about arguing with the actual código in your hands? |
That would REALLY make the Ensenada guy happy.....NOT
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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You have to consider what is written law, and weigh that against the multitude of interpretations among the various immigrations district offices and
the various Mexican Consulates in The United States. (Good luck with that!)
The best way is to do everything through your local immigration district office in Baja. They do operate differently from one another. Besides, they
want absolute control. Our immigration office in Santa Rosalia tells us that we no longer have to wait to apply for an FM2 after holding an FM3 for
five years. We can jump over the five year FM3 holding period (if you want to).
Regarding the ability to buy property with an FMT, I know people who have done it. There are many who are willing to take your money, and some have
gotten Fideicomisos while only holding an FMT. Where you get into legal trouble is if there is some dispute regarding your land. You have NO rights
and you will lose your property. That is validated by the fact that your are actually holding the property illegally. It just hasn't been enforced
until a dispute arises. The same goes for insurance policies. If you have to collect on a claim, you can't do it without at least an FM3.
Do your homework diligently if you are buying property. Do your immigration business only with your local immigration district office. Think about
this: They know everything about you. They know what you look like and where you live. They make regular sweeps throughout their region. You are far
better off getting to know them and working with them. Respect their culture and "the way things are done". If your principles run counter to theirs,
they are of no value in Mexico. You are a foreigner.
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squid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-23-2009
Location: Mulege
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I would like to add something by trying to answer some of Schwlind's questions as good as I can.
First and foremost: I am NOT an expert in this issue. I (we) learned these issues b/c of a nightmare we went through w/ the INM (Immigration).
My hubby runs a business in the US and MX alike. In the beginning it was very unclear to us what to request , which Visa is needed. The INM does not
give outstanding answers.
O.K., back again to k-rico's post and FM-3 Visitante Rentista. On that Visa you also can also live permanently in MX, not only temporarily.
AND, it remains the fact that every land or houseowner (house on leased land) has to hold at least an FM-3. This was my concern about not having an
FM-3/2 as a landowner as Ricardo pointed out. I have my doubts that it is legal for a private individual to own land - even when purchased through an
ambassy and as many lawyers as possible, and signed and, and, and. without holding an FM-3/2. Well, where there is no judge, there is no judgment!
Everything is possible in Mexico, as long as you didn't get caught. Again, FMT does not allow you anything other than entering the country for 180
days only. Even as there are Nomads her posting that they bought this or that house w/o an FM-3. It is illegal.
@ Schwlind
Nobody jumps on you because you are asking something. I learned that there are good people here as well as others > every flock has black sheep.
What the heck! My hubby does not like the fact that I post here as he had bad exoperiance and is no longer willing to waste his time w/ marooons. But
again, most Nomads are "normal".
To your Q: As far as I know an FM-2 is more easy to obtain if you are running a business in MX. Don't forget, you have to apply for an FM-2 (unlike
FM-3) and the local INM officer will make a statement about you. The decission is made in MXCity, not in your local office. About your hubby, it
depends on if he is classified as 'Dependent' in his FM-3. If so, it might very well be that he also has to obtain an FM-2. But , hey, go to the INM
and ask. On specific questions they do have answers.
I was referring to the fact, if you go to the INM and ask: " What shall I do?" Then they are mostly helpless. But even that depends on the office
where you go. Some are better some are only poor w/ info.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Whatever else, I just paid $395 bucks for an agent to renew my FM2. I'll be glad when All this nonsense is behind me. |
I have a very hard time understanding why anyone would pay so much but I guess everything has a price. I personally think that if you want a visa you
should meet with the agent and develop a positive relationship in the case of fm-3 renewel the cost is 2200 which is below $200.
Anyway, to your other question- I understand that there is a inmigratorio which mean permanently migrated I guess and there is naturalized which means
you wish to become mexican I think Shari is naturalized so maybe she can speak to this as she refered to her first voting experience etc... as others
have mentioned too.
Apparently things are different in every office and region...
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