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Author: Subject: Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted
elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 04:37 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Brian L Codo means elbow in Spanish, but also means "cheapskate". Not sure what David was referring to though. The new poster name sounds like elbow (elbeau).
My first name and middle name is Eldon Beau. Elbeau is my poor attempt at being clever with my name. Just let this play out. I don't know if David will interpret the satellite imagery the same as me, but he will be able to tell you that what I showed in the images this morning really is at a location that make sense for Santa Isabel. I cannot find any signs of people having been to the site. No tire marks within 2.5 miles, no modern dwellings (but plenty of very old ruins), no pictures anywhere on the internet anywhere near the place, etc., etc.. I may or may not be able to interpret blurry satellite images, but I am not being dishonest with you
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mcfez
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:38 PM
I really hope I am not right....


Well..okay.
Here we go.....

There's this guy who is studying the images of Google Earth, he seems to have zeroed in on this area for a reason....from reading historic accounts to forums to just plain lucky and heard it from Uncle Bob.

He is not at any other forum under this user name. I haven't ever heard of him. Fact is...from anyone I haven't heard a lot about this location (in the past).


So out of the blue....this guy being so protective of this possible historic find...he logs onto the Bajanomads for the first time ever...then publishes the location details? He seemed to know all about David K in advance...advance enough to send him the images and map? Yet...not a word from any past posts from him.

I think this is another Sand Dollar story........

[Edited on 3-3-2011 by mcfez]




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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:47 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Well..okay.
Here we go.....

There's this guy who is studying the images of Google Earth, he seems to have zeroed in on this area for a reason....from reading historic accounts to forums to just plain lucky and heard it from Uncle Bob.

He is not at any other forum under this user name. I haven't ever heard of him. Fact is...from anyone I haven't heard a lot about this location (in the past).


So out of the blue....this guy being so protective of this possible historic find...he logs onto the Bajanomads for the first time ever...then publishes the location details? He seemed to know all about David K in advance...advance enough to send him the images and map? Yet...not a word from any past posts from him.

I think this is another Sand Dollar story........

[Edited on 3-3-2011 by mcfez]


who cares, mcpez?

it all makes for silly entertainment. a trail of ruins leads to a mission built upon the remains of a large pre-columbian city! i can't wait for dk to drive out to the desert and bring back pictures of his toyota parked next to a crashed space ship and cave full of alien gold!
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woody with a view
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:47 PM


i just hope there's no secret surf spots nearby!

:lol::?::lol::?::lol::?::light:




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Skipjack Joe
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:59 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou

Think David is working today and he will respond after work.

edited to correctly spell David

[Edited on 3-2-2011 by bajalou]


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Good one!
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Marc
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:06 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
i just hope there's no secret surf spots nearby!

:lol::?::lol::?::lol::?::light:


Now THAT would be terrific!!:o:o
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BajaBlanca
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:17 PM


ohhhhhhhhhhhh if it is anywhere close to us in la bocana, puhleeeeeeeez let us know David !!!!

:yes::biggrin::yes::biggrin:





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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:27 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Well..okay.
Here we go.....

There's this guy who is studying the images of Google Earth, he seems to have zeroed in on this area for a reason....from reading historic accounts to forums to just plain lucky and heard it from Uncle Bob.

He is not at any other forum under this user name. I haven't ever heard of him. Fact is...from anyone I haven't heard a lot about this location (in the past).


So out of the blue....this guy being so protective of this possible historic find...he logs onto the Bajanomads for the first time ever...then publishes the location details? He seemed to know all about David K in advance...advance enough to send him the images and map? Yet...not a word from any past posts from him.

I think this is another Sand Dollar story........

[Edited on 3-3-2011 by mcfez]


Honestly, I can't say I'd think any differently if I were you :)

I'm out there under this username in other places. Heck, I sell my own geology iPhone app at elbeaus.com. Send an email to support@elbeaus.com and I'll repeat it back to you. I didn't mention my site earlier because I didn't want you guys thinking I was just spamming your forums.

I know how crazy my post sounds, but think of it from my point of view. I've been trying to get someone to visit this site for weeks now, I'm very frustrated that the people I've contacted about it won't give me the time of day, and I can't go to the site myself. The ONLY reason I posted here today was to try to get ANYBODY's attention who would be in a position to go snap some photos of the site. After David logged on and offered to go and a couple people vouched for him I had accomplished what I wanted to do in this thread. It's not my fault that he won't respond to me or you. I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that he's busy today and wasn't ready to drop everything and go hunting for a lost mission, etc..

Think about it, there's no way to call me dishonest about this without implicating bahanomad's uber-member David K also...so what you're left with is two possibilities:

1. I'm a nutjob who thinks he can do archaeology on Google Earth.
2. I'm not a nutjob and still think I can do archaeology on Google Earth.

Either way, it's worth checking out. Believe me, I'm following this thread closer than any of you. I've been waiting to see what's actually there much longer :)
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mcfez
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:50 PM


........the ONLY reason I posted here today was to try to get ANYBODY's attention who would be in a position to go snap some photos of the site.

Like I said.....you didnt have a clue who DavidK was/is and still dont. Yet you trust a stranger still with your info (DK)? You just signed in at the BN early this a.m. for the first time.....trusty guy you must be.

Hell...I would had gone to the University(s)......
Many other avenues than a internet forum. I think you would had done that instead. Sorry.....something aint right here.




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mcfez
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:00 PM
Hell yes!


Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Don't worry about it.
It will pan out or it won't.....if you're not going then don't waste any energy on it.
See you around the campfire.....we can build a really big one in that bathtub on wheels, get hammered, hook it up to a vehicle and roll that flamingb-tch around the camp and laugh our assesoff.

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
........the ONLY reason I posted here today was to try to get ANYBODY's attention who would be in a position to go snap some photos of the site.

Like I said.....you didnt have a clue who DavidK was/is and still dont. Yet you trust a stranger still with your info (DK)? You just signed in at the BN early this a.m. for the first time.....trusty guy you must be.

Hell...I would had gone to the University(s)......
Many other avenues than a internet forum. I think you would had done that instead. Sorry.....something aint right here.


When we do go? Absolute sounds better, your idea. I'll bring the broads :yes:




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David K
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:30 PM


Hello amigos... I have had a long work day, followed by dinner with my beautiful wife 'Baja Angel'... I first took care of posting the location of Mike and Don-Kay as that takes 45 minutes to do, then I had a few u2u's to respond to.

Having found a site 'lost' since 1966 after another Nomad shared a Google Earth image of it with me, and then driving 500 miles to varify the site, then sharing that information with an archeologist working that part of Baja, first... as well as a noted Baja mission historian and author of many books .... BEFORE revealing the location here (as it heald no special interest to either of them)... I will take care of the site elbeau has found.

Please stay tuned!




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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 10:13 PM


Count me in DK, I'm headed to San Felipe next week to help my little boy race the SF 250. I can always take a detour somewhere along the way.....dt



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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 10:25 PM


Quote:


Might be worth it to do a fly-over and get some good photos from the air before you do any ground work


Sounds like a job for............Capt. Mike! :light:

[Edited on 3-3-2011 by jeans]




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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 10:30 PM


Add me as a voucher for DK, who annoys some Nomads by knowing too much. But I'll bet I have more Baja books.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 11:27 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajalera
Add me as a voucher for DK, who annoys some Nomads by knowing too much. But I'll bet I have more Baja books.


You can never have too many Baja books!!!

Thanks for the nice words...

Well, for the past couple of hours I have looked over the spot on my Google Earth... and the site is not remote, I have been very near it many times and I know Nomads who have ridden right by it on a m/c.

I will keep an open mind and I love the mysteries and myths of Baja anyway... I will even go there and take photos of the area... but (so far) I see nothing man made at the GPS of the site... nothing close to a mission type of site... and that part of Baja is a high resolution where you can make out things down to 20 feet or less (like a car)... and a mission church is usually about 100 feet by 20 feet, there are fields for crops, corrals for animals, a flowing stream of water or an oasis for water and caminos (trails) radiating out from the site.

Of course, this was to be a secret mission where the padres hid their aquired wealth (not likely) to be retrieved sometime later.

So stay tuned... I have not been able to open the files elbeau sent me (my computer is probably to blame) which may change my point of view...

More tomorrow!




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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 11:32 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajalera But I'll bet I have more Baja books.


Maybe----------I have 90, according to my last count, but I admit that some are duplicates. :P

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[*] posted on 3-3-2011 at 01:04 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Well, for the past couple of hours I have looked over the spot on my Google Earth... and the site is not remote, I have been very near it many times and I know Nomads who have ridden right by it on a m/c.

I will keep an open mind and I love the mysteries and myths of Baja anyway... I will even go there and take photos of the area... but (so far) I see nothing man made at the GPS of the site... nothing close to a mission type of site... and that part of Baja is a high resolution where you can make out things down to 20 feet or less (like a car)... and a mission church is usually about 100 feet by 20 feet, there are fields for crops, corrals for animals, a flowing stream of water or an oasis for water and caminos (trails) radiating out from the site.

Of course, this was to be a secret mission where the padres hid their aquired wealth (not likely) to be retrieved sometime later.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again...then quit! There's no sense in being a fool about it" - Mark Twain

I give up. Academia won't listen, nomads can't open files. Here you go...all the coords for all the sites can be found in this KML file which for some reason is unopenable by DK's computer:

Google Earth File With Coordinates

You might first notice from DK's first post about the old mission story from 1941 that the 12-mile line drawn on the map at the bottom goes almost right over this site.

Here's another (little more reliable) account that fits this site:


The Californian

You can flip back a page and see how the story leads into this page, but to sum it up, it's the story of an early explorer who sailed down the Colorado river into the Gulf of California. He describes the islands in the gulf very well, then starts in on his journey that found "Santa Isabel". Reading his story, since he lists all the islands going down the gulf, it gives the impression that the starting point for his journey is farther South, but my site would mean that what he meant was that he was starting from the first island he mentioned (the one he actually says he's at). From there the distances and land descriptions are spot on and his description of the site looks great too. If his story is right, it probably means that it is a mission site because of the detail in which he describes the bells from the bell tower. Also, look straight down at the site then zoom out a little. See the "Stone Corral"? It's across the river and pretty comparatively easy to see.

If you're having trouble making anything out in the images, please double-click the pin for the arches going up the mountain side. I find them to be one of the easiest features to discern. Another discernible feature is the brown tower on top of what I call a "fortress-like" structure.

---!!! PLEASE NOTE: !!!--- Google Earth can flip, twist, and distort satellite imagery all over the place. Each of the pins on the map have a very particular view associated with them which I think is the best view for that feature. Instead of just zooming straight in to each feature from above, please double-click the pins so you can see the features the same way I do. You can "uncheck" the boxes next in the list of features on the left pane of Google Earth to toggle them on and off. This helps so that my text doesn't appear over the feature I want you to see. Some features are easier to see than others, and a couple of them (ie: the statue) is admittedly a stretch, but all of them are MUCH easier to see on a very high-resolution (many pixels per inch) screen. The best viewing is with an iPhone 4 with it's retina display. It really makes a big difference to not have the screen contributing to the blurriness of an already blurry picture.

Of course, feel free to flip, twist and whirl Google Earth around to see if what I'm seeing holds up using different angles of sight. I would do no less and I would view it with an eye of skepticism if someone was asking me to make a trip like this.

Here are a few snapshots of what I see and interpret. I'm sure this will inspire plenty of debate, but what it really needs is a couple photos from the ground...PLEASE!...PLEASE just go and see if it's really there.

First, here's my drawing of the so-called "Mission" site with some Google Earth measurements:



...And here are Google Earth screen captures of the site I think I see. The site looks cool, but there are two elusive questions:

1. Why would the Jesuits (or whoever) built a "secret mission" so elegantly?
2. Why does there appear to be two types of construction materials? One looks brown like adobe, the other looks gray and more overgrown.






Next is the image that looks like the front to a fortress or something, although that interpretation seems highly unlikely given the lack of significant shadows and the topography. Notice the adobe-looking tower with a shadow in the top-right corner of what looks like the big structure:




Next is the feature that I intrepret as the "Stone Corral" that is often mentioned in the lost mission stories:


Next is a feature that I think is one of the more visible features when using Google Earth. It's a series of archways going up a trail cut deep into a mountainside. If you pan around it in Google Earth you can faintly see another large archway-wall perpendicular to the arches going up the hill. That perpendicular wall also appears to be the beginning of a trail up to the entrance to a cave or mine or something:


Next is an admittedly blurry image of what I think is a standing building with interesting architecture. The building is fuzzy, but the shadow it makes is distinguishable:



Now for the good (or completely insane) stuff :) ...........

The rest of these pictures are my interpretation of the features in an area of the Zamora river basin (which DK is right about, it is blue which gives it the appearance of a flowing river at times, but really it is just colored by all the copper in the hills around it. It is a river basin approximately 190 +/- feet wide the has a "sometimes-stream" flowing through it. By itself, it could never support a significant population, but although they are hard to make out now, if you follow the white staining that the water gives in the area it flows (or stands in the case of a resivoir) you can get an idea of what I'm talking about :






Anyways, no more "Black Helicopter" "Secret Ops" coverup stuff. I've exhausted all reasonable avenues for trying to both discover and protect this site. Will somebody PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go take some pics and try to get the site recognized and protected? please?

please?

please?

...sigh...
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[*] posted on 3-3-2011 at 02:44 AM


Best thread in a while. Looking forward to seeing pictures of the site. Ruins or not, it's a great read.
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mcfez
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[*] posted on 3-3-2011 at 06:52 AM
Better


Okay...at least now you got some stuff posted instead of all this hush hush crapola you were pulling off yesterday. Thanks for posting.

So.....why did you not go to a University with this information?


I really dont see anything much....but I will remain quiet from this point on about the subject.




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elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-3-2011 at 07:25 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Okay...at least now you got some stuff posted instead of all this hush hush crapola you were pulling off yesterday. Thanks for posting.

So.....why did you not go to a University with this information?


I really dont see anything much....but I will remain quiet from this point on about the subject.


mcfez, I really don't understand why you're so focused on talking about me and my "crapola" instead of the site. Doesn't make sense. What I said yesterday was all true, so please let it go.

If you read my original post you would know that I tried to contact 9 professors at 4 major universities. Only one would give me the time of day. He likes the satellite images and my intrepretations, but he said the same thing as myself...we need pics from the ground.
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