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elbeau
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And Then, of course, there's the photo Tom and Bill don't want us to see...
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64532
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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elbeau, you are making yourself an excellent Nomad... You know how to fit right in! Too bad you are so far from Baja!
There are three Baja Nomads I know in Texas now... Mexitron, Desert Rat and Skeet.
Mexitron his explored a lot of the area between El Marmol and Matomi Canyon, considered the hot area for Santa Isabel! See his Baja hiking photos at
http://vivabaja.com/mexitron
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
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Location: yuma,az
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i have been followning this for a few days now,,
am I missing some thing. I really dont see a thing in the photos
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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We didn't see anything unusal in the walk down the wash. I think if anyone wants to further the investigation they need to get on top out of the wash.
Maybe an airplane flyover to start and if something is seen a land walk in to check it out. Bill has a plane maybe he would be interested in a
flyover. Perhaps base it out of Santa Inez. Maybe have some people on the ground when he comes by with radios to communicate. I'll ask him.
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elbeau
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
We didn't see anything unusal in the walk down the wash. I think if anyone wants to further the investigation they need to get on top out of the wash.
Maybe an airplane flyover to start and if something is seen a land walk in to check it out. Bill has a plane maybe he would be interested in a
flyover. Perhaps base it out of Santa Inez. Maybe have some people on the ground when he comes by with radios to communicate. I'll ask him.
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It would be great to get some arial photos of the features, but with Tom and Bill's trip turning up nothing man-made, it might not be worth your time
and money to make a special trip to the arroyo by plane...but if somebody finds themselves flying in the area for some reason, then it would be great
if they could snap a few photos.
I will also be posting some pics and explanations of a couple targets that could use a little following up on if someone happens to be visiting El
Volcan. Again, it's probably not worth a special trip at this point, but I'd love it if someone who is already going to the arroyo could check it out.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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...a room full of gold coins and jewels....I knew it!
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elbeau
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Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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OK, good news for the existence of the feature we're calling the "Arch Structure"
We don't have a photo showing this structure from an angle where we can tell if it's an arch or not, but Photo's 19 and 20 do show the feature itself
from a completely different angle. In the photos the top of the East side of the feature is visible and the top portion of the back of the feature is
visible.
Let me explain the pics that follow:
All images shown here are from Tom & Bill's Photo #20. Photo #19 is almost the same view, but it shows a little more of the top of the hill if
you want to take a look. #19 is good for showing the top of the trench that is generally hidden in #19 and #20.
I enhanced image #20 as follows:
-Added 16% gamma
-Added 4% more exposure
-Enlarged to 4X size
-Performed a 1% radial blur
-Performed a 12% common sharpen
-Shrunk image by 1/2
This results in an image with twice as many pixels as the original without an unreasonable amount of blurring due to scale.
You can still look at photo #20 and see what I'm showing without the enhancements, but the enhanced images is much easier to work with when trying to
find the feature in the first place.
So, please take a look at the following images and also, please open the KML file and turn the photo overlay on and off a few times and you will see
that a LOT of features in the overlay fit perfectly with features of the hillside, proving that the structure I identify as the arch structure really
is the arch structure in the photograph. I know you may have to squint a little...so go ahead and squint...this one adds up, although I still can't
prove it's an arch, only that it's not a trick shadow of some kind...it's an actual physical feature that needs more investigating.
KML File Link
...oh, and preemptive response to mtgoat: "I know...you don't get it and I'm a creepy villian"
For the rest of you, seriously, open the KML in Google Earth and flick the visibility of the photo on and off and look at how well the features of the
hillside agree with this explaination. That structure exists...the question now is whether or not it is an arch or just a very oddly shaped jutting
rock that looks like an arch in Google Maps, Bing Maps (different image than Google's), and Google Earth.
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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Here's a link to the enhanced image:
Photo #20 Enhanced
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17390
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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elbow:
keep on dreaming! there are lots of retired guys/gals here with nothing to do but drive around the desert looking for you while you sit at home and
watch basketball on boob tube!
hope!
yes we can!
i have a dream!
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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Bill and Tom's Excellent Adventure
KML File:
Bill and Tom's Excellent Adventure
(aka: "Bill and Tom's Bogus Journey" according to a certain cloven-footed nomad)
 
WARNING: The KML file itself is small, but it references a LOT of large image files which can REALLY slow down a mediocre computer. For best
performance, if you don't have the fastest computer around then once you open the file and it starts loading images, start unchecking some of the
images in the left column (probably in a folder under "Temporary Places")
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64532
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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4 more from TW at the lost mission!
Attached are 4 more pictures. These were taken out of the wash where the northern cave with stairs would be. Bill and I climbed up out of the wash and
I took these. It was about 4pm and the sun was low. My other pictures are basically duplicates of Bill's taken at the same locations etc.
edit: >>>Sorry I went back over my notes and they were not taken at the northern cave with stairs but across from the corral on the west side
of the wash on top. We went up there thinking we might get a better look at the top of the corral side, which we didn't, still not high enough.
TW<<<
These pictures are from left to right facing west. In the first picture (14) you can see the gully in the bottom of the picture. The gully runs down
to the left into the wash.
Tom
#14
#15
#16
#17
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(no doubt, the sun blinded them from seeing the golden doors to the hidden Jesuit treasures!) 
Thanks Tom!
David K
[Edited on 3-17-2011 by David K]
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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OK, it's time for another call for somebody to visit the mission site.
Here's what we knew before Tom and Bill's trip:
* Satellite imagery (including both Google and Bing) shows what appear to be man-made arches on a hillside and man-made structures that may or may
not be the source of the "Lost (or hidden) Mission of Santa Isabel" stories (this doesn't necessarily mean it's a mission, but it could at least be
the source of the stories).
* The location of these features is consistent with a significant number of the legend stories, including the stories DK posted on page 1 of this
thread, as well as the story from "The Californian" that I posted on page 3 of this thread.
* There are no roads or modern dwellings within sight of the site.
* Although a couple nomads had driven motorcycles down the arroyo a little ways, nobody ventured out of the arroyo during those trips.
* There may have been mining operations somewhere in or around the arroyo area before or about 1905.
Here's what we learned from Tom's trip:
* There is much more water in the arroyo than previously thought. Here's what Tom sent me in an e-mail: "There were several places where there was
water in the wash and lots of vegetation...Mostly the water was pooled next to a rock. Not large areas. The biggest pools would be maybe 3 feet by 12
to 15 feet long but not very deep, a foot or so. Some of the water was spread out under vegetation that made it hard to tell how much and we avoided
it and walked around."
* Distances from the arroyo to the supposed corral and probably to the mission site can be deceitful. Hiking up and out of the arroyo will be
required to snap a photo of these sites.
* There are a lot of stone outcroppings which may be tricking us into seeing things that aren't actually there.
* There were no obvious signs of human habitation during the walk down the arroyo itself, and two of the smaller features I had labeled as caves
were significantly debunked.
* The top of whatever feature is causing us to see arches going up the hillside has been photographed, but from a poor angle where it cannot be
determined what the feature is or isn't.
* It is about a four mile-walk from the graded road to the supposed corral site.
Here's some things that really deserve some attention still:
* Somebody should visit and photograph the mission site. Tom and Bill made significant progress in documenting some parts of the site, but only
ventured out of the arroyo across from the supposed corral. The mission site would have been about 1/2 mile to the north on the north face of a
ravine or gully. Nobody has come within site of the supposed mission yet. DK had originally understood that Tom and Bill used their GPS to go to the
actual mission site, but Tom has confirmed that they did not.
* Somebody should document the foliage that appears to be growing up above the mission site. Many of the mission legends describe unique foliage
and this is worth investigating.
* Somebody should take a look around the valley area beyond the supposed foliage area.
* Somebody should get a proper view of whatever those supposed "arches" are. In my opinion, there is a chance to find not only a "lost mission"
around the arroyo, but also ruins of an older civilization that the mission is built on or around. If the arches really are man-made arches then they
are probably the easiest way to document something from this supposed older civilization. The hillside with the arches and the trench beside them are
relatively easy to get to compared to other sites that appear to be worth investigating...even easier than the mission. If the arches aren't a
man-made structure, it would not necessarily invalidate the existence of the "lost mission" a little ways beyond. Tom mentioned that he thought it
would be worth hiking up the "arches" hillside from the gently sloping eastern side. This hike would probably also give you a distant view of the
corral and the mission site, and it would give a view down that trench near the arches.
So.....
You are the "Baja Nomads" and this is a not-yet-debunked lost mission story that is only a couple miles from a graded road and you've all known about
it for more than two weeks now. Go back and re-read this thread and look at how many of you "talked the talk" about going that first day.
Tomorrow is a Saturday. Surely there is a Baja Nomad who perhaps owns a motorcycle who has at least a little Indiana Jones in them and would love to
be able to tell the story about how they threw reason to the wind and spent a day looking for a lost ancient civilization, a lost Jesuit mission, with
the faint hope of finding a buried treasure.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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all gone.
[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Whatever the hell you are smoking.......it must be great. |
wow! zippy one-liners! That's cool! How do you do it?
Here's a suggestion...you look like you want to shut me up about this, and that's cool. But zippy one-liners won't get you there.
So here's my challenge to you mcfez...or any of my other vocal critics:
Go snap a photo of the site. If there's nothing man-made about either the arches or the so-called mission site, then forevermore I will have this as
my forum avatar:
And my forum signature (beneath every one of my posts) will say "I'm a pink Baja Pansy"
And in case you think that's not good enough, I'll even post the picture and signature for at least one month in a prominent position on the home page
of my commercial website (which does get a fair number of daily users interested in geology):
http://www.elbeaus.com
And I'll make a web version of Terraphone for Baja for everybody to use for free on the bajanomad.com website.
So, the real question is: Are you really just going to talk the talk?
I'll do what I can to make it worth your while...but what I said about my daughter and her medical bills really is true...I'm not just a troll. I'd
be there myself in a heartbeat if I could.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]
[Edited on 3-19-2011 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Actually dude...
You just did yourself in like that ChrisX character. Calling the BN a bunch of Pansies. You just lost your creditability of being a cool member here.
Think I am bad knocking you around....it's still early in this day. Most folks here just hate being called a pansy.
Enjoy. |
Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little
fun.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Actually dude...
You just did yourself in like that ChrisX character. Calling the BN a bunch of Pansies. You just lost your creditability of being a cool member here.
Think I am bad knocking you around....it's still early in this day. Most folks here just hate being called a pansy.
Enjoy. |
Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little
fun. |
A very few. It's not humor...its insulting to many of us that have lived a life of the great-doors. Insulting to the men in uniform here too. Cops and
such aint pansies! Retired folks here that are past 70...still kicking it in Baja...ain't pansies.
I joke here a hell a lot. Hell...I even give a hard time to lots here...if reason calls for. But never would I insult all the all BN's. Never. Show
respect dude.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
Member Is Offline
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Fair enough. Edited what I could. Sorry if any were offended.
[Edited on 3-19-2011 by elbeau]
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
Actually, I'm pretty sure at least a few nomads have a sense of humor...but obviously not all of you. Sorry if I offended, it is meant as a little
fun. |
A very few. It's not humor...its insulting to many of us that have lived a life of the great-doors. Insulting to the men in uniform here too. Cops and
such aint pansies! Retired folks here that are past 70...still kicking it in Baja...ain't pansies.
I joke here a hell a lot. Hell...I even give a hard time to lots here...if reason calls for. But never would I insult all the all BN's. Never. Show
respect dude. |
Fair enough. Edited what I could. Sorry if any were offended. |
I think most here will over look. I will certainly. Takes a big man to make things right from a wrong. You are big.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64532
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It is all good to have a desire to discover things... I sure do... I would be happy to go back there and check it out when I am able.
Perhaps other Nomads will check it closer... I thought TW told me he hiked up to your GPS spot and confirmed that the only thing there was rocks and
cactus... sorry I heard wrong.
He did hike to the arroyo below the spot and looked right to your 'arches' (which I still don't see in the satellite images) and took photos...
Nothing wrong with going there again... but besides loving the 'lost mission' legends (because they are historical stories), I also am one to study
the history and facts of the missions as scribed by historians before me and I read the published letters that Jesuit priests have written their
superiors during their time on the peninsula.
The Jesuits could not survive most of their time on what was produced on the peninsula... it had to be supplemented with supplies from the mainland.
Building a mission takes lots of people, food and water.
Any and all missions required good source of water and land to grow crops... The cliffside above Arroyo el Volcan is not a place to build a mission
and there is no land nearby for raising food. The arroyo may have tinajas (ponds) following rare rain, but the only year round water is a few miles
away at the El Volcan Onyx Dome, and it is rich in minerals that stain the rocks and soil down the arroyo.
There is nothing this location has in common with any other Jesuit mission project. So, what did they eat and drink while building this mission? What
funds were used to finance it (all other missions had funds donated by wealthy people in Europe and it was well documented. No Jesuit records have any
project named Santa Isabel in California.
The closest refrece to a Santa Isabel is a water source of that name on the Jesuit map of 1757, near the coast... and that does happen to be near this
point. This is what inspired Choral Pepper to search for it in the hills south of Puertecitos, back in the late 1960's. There were plenty other
searchers too... Jesuits were saving souls and building roads and missions to help Spain secure California before the Russians or British did. They
had little or no time or energy to mine gold.
Whatever it takes to enjoy Baja and the desert I am all for... But, don't get real bummed out if there isn't anything there. It would have been
found... this entire area has been covered by prospectors, miners, geologists, helicopters and airplanes...
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