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BajaGringo
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Go figure - good move Woooosh...
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Go figure - good move Woooosh... |
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead
This is a poorly built yet beautiful building in a very bad location. It would be a shame if no one ever gets to soak in that ocean-view bathtub. But
there needs to be disclosure by the seller that the status of the land title is unknown at best, not that escrituras are guaranteed. That way the
buyer can decide how much risk he is comfortable taking and what price that risk is worth.
The BajaNomad Golden Rule of Real Estate is "never invest more in Baja Real Estate than you are willing to walk away from".
Just curious Nomads- what would you pay to live here. What's the correct price? It is not $0K or $500K, but what would you pay- or would you walk
away?
Here's the "bones of the building" and the Real Estate flyer...
http://www.imagebam.com/image/df70e7138940877
http://www.imagebam.com/image/7dc9ff138940963
[Edited on 7-2-2011 by Woooosh]
[Edited on 7-3-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Sorry about Lic. Rosales, he has an uphill job.
Being an attorney, does not condone people for lying or threatening people to try to conceal the opposition and also when the lie may cause a great
tragedy maybe this next winter.
Opposition has to be met with reason and this is what Attorney Rosales does not have and let’s discuss why.
He as an attorney, cannot say everything is ok at Condominium Playa Bonita, legally and as a human being, he cannot say it also.
Every member here, can see by just common sense, that something is wrong with that building, maybe you cannot say it in legal terms, or in legal
jargon, but that is for professionals in court, logic is what we use to avoid problems and it is logical that this development has problems, very wet
problems.
Now you have Rosales, saying here that, he as an attorney, assure people everything is ok and threaten people to sue them if they keep communicating,
through a public medium, making public the problems he does not want everybody to know about.
Well, that is exactly the kind of problems American buyers need to know about before buying, more when you are buying in a submarine development. That
is called due dilligence and he needs to make a full disclosure of any problems related to the property to the buyer.
This kind of people are the kind of people giving Baja a bad name and lets educate him a little, because he remember me, another attorney at law, ex
Estate District attorney, a governor´s cousin, named Alejandro Rosas Romandia, who one day, told me, that if he loose the case, he will retire from
being attorney at law, well, I threw him out of the property with big slap on his rear (literally) crying not to come to violence, but he, after
losing the case against me, just forgot about retiring and kept being an attorney, even when the press asked him when he was going to retire,
upholding his word and he just answered, that the profession was sacred with a very red face. Hope this new attorney does not fallow that path.
First problem that make Condominium Playa Bonita not a perfect place.- Following the title chain, it does not have a National Land title at the bottom
and that is using their documents. As a legal consequence, if a land has not come out of National Land dominium through a National land title, it
remain National Land, because you cannot acquire national land any other way (article 27 Mexican constitution); that particular piece of land, was
declared National Land in 1986 through a Global National Land presidential decree.
Second Problem.- That land is at this time subjected to an administrative procedure and is being titled by the National Land office to a third party,
not that company; as a legal consequence, anyone who try to sell or cooperate with the act of selling, is trying to sell, National Property and is
committing a federal offense.
Third problem.- When the National Title is issued, the people who is found possessing a part of that land, will be prosecuted by the Federal police,
as a consequence, that the SRA has to give the land sold, free of legal problems and illegal occupants to thelegal buyer, who at this time has already
paid to the Nation for the land.
Fourth problem.- There is a legal precedent for what I am saying, the first example already happened, on the other extreme of that parcel, a place
named Animale downtown Rosarito, was rented and the one who claimed to be the owner, brought to the Federal Police office in Mexico city, where he was
informed about the National Land procedure; he repeated that he was the owner and the same did his Tijuana´s attorney, then they informed them, that
they were pretending to own National Land and as a consequence they needed to show a National Title or a Federal permit to use National Land; they had
nothing, only a ´Prescripcion´ based on two guys who said that they were there in a party and heard the proclaimed owner said that he was the owner
and nobody said anything negative about that; based on that a local judge told him, he was the owner (remember that absolutely no authority can give
away National land, but the National Land Director and that include local judges); then the authorities informed them that they were accepting in
front of authority to be using National land without a National Land title or Federal Permit to use National land while in a procedure to obtain one;
being a federal crime and one with a heavy penalty, they were going to be put in a Federal Jail awaiting a Federal Trial; they just abandoned every
pretense and talked with the guy, owner of the National Land Procedure, who by the way had the Federal permission to occupy National Land in the mean
while he gets his title through the National Land procedure already paid to the nation; they made a lease contract and avoided being prosecuted for a
Federal crime. (maybe Rosales Attorney can talk to those guys in Rosarito to inform himself about the problems he say does not exist, before he is in
the same spot).
Fifth problem.- ! NATURE ! in 1982 the 50 year storm came to Rosarito, the sea waves destroyed most of Playas de Tijuana coastal commercial zone, 200
mts. Inland, With restaurants, houses and everything ; Rosarito was not that heavily built at that time and the area where the development is now,
went almost 3 mts. below sea level with waves 3 mts over that ( I have photos taken in Playa Encantada, showing the height of the waves and sea level;
pictures from my restaurant, being smashed by a Hugh wave, about 6 mts. Above what sea level is normally in Rosarito.) This is not a legal argument,
but I remember you that the 50 year storm is called that way, because we have one of those on the average every 50 years and we are 29 years from that
date and every day, it is more probable that a storm like that, will hit us again in Rosarito, just add the global warming effect and you will
conclude that a storm more powerful than the 1982 will hit Rosarito in the next 10 to 20 years, also, add the CFE Sea wall effect and you have a
tragedy in the making; I would not buy one of those condos even if they paid me to live in it; but Rosales attoney say it is perfect an has no
problems !!! ok !!! why doesent he live there for the next 20 years?, he say he asure you there are no problems, doesent he?????.
I agree that the development is not legally in Federal Zone, but that is because the legal limits established in 1976 have not been modified and a lot
has happened since those happy days.
The sea has been gaining ground because of the CFE sea walls and that is not going to stop, unless big marine works start soon and I don’t even know
of a plan to do that.
This is beyond logic, because it has mathematical grounds, the Federal zone line was established in 1976 with a one mlimeter accuracy, the line is
there and is a few meters to the west of the building and that put the building legally in National Land, not in Federal Zone (I peronally meausred
it).
At this time using the legal description of Federal Zone, that area must be redefined not as Federal Zone, but as Marine zone, because the law says:
Federal Zone will be established and measured where the coast is constituted by a beach and shall be measured only if the solid ground on the side of
the beach, has a slope of less than 30 degrees.
In this case, the coast is constituted by a beach, but the building is on the beach and that by definition is not Federal zone, it is actually and
legally the sea and that is what the beach is, Marine Zone, not even Federal Zone, the Federal Zone is the area beside the beach, not the beach.
They are actually to the west of what legally is Federal Zone, they are actually in the sea as is defined legally.
At the end of the day, we can say that that building is not there legally, has a lot of heavy legal problems and it is in a life threatening area,
just waiting for the next 50 years storm, for a tragedy to occur, as an engineer, I think that the building will disappear and not even a stone will
remain after the next heavy storm, that may happen this winter. 
[Edited on 7-4-2011 by ramuma53]
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Woooosh
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Thanks Ramanu53. The FOR SALE signs for the building have been taken down and the internet listing has been removed.
When Mr. Villarreal- the SEMARNAT jefe modified our concession in Sept 2010, he told us "you have to understand that the points on the map I am
approving no longer exist". Now I know what he means. This project is so far west of the Federal Zone Line that it is off the map. So how are they
using that to their advantage? We were given an "ornamental concession" just 10 meters away to protect the beach and are not allowed to build anything
on it. So what does this really mean if this concession is on Marine Zone and Not Federal Zone- or do I have the terms wrong? Another question is
"What is the person who has now bought all this national land (From "Animale bar" all the way down the beach I would guess) intend to do with it and
how does that impact the beach we have protected in our concession and the plans for the Rosarito Malecon?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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A survey crew was here measuring today. They found the nail driven into the street that marks the edge of concession DGZF 832/08. Although Rosales
is not communicating with us here yet, he is doing some fact checking apparently. Good for him. Even better if he shares his findings and the
process he is taking but so far none of them have responded- Rosales or the two Rosarito Beach AMPI Agents that have the listing- Larry French and
Miguel Sedano.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
The concesion if for ZFMT only and that kind of concesion do not allow you to forbid the ose by other people.
No, they are at this time on National Land, the line defining the ZFMT is to their west, because the 1976 line is there and has not been redefined as
it is needed, because it clearly need to be mover East, up to where the solid ground start as mandated by the legal ZFMT description; that area need
urgently to be defined a Marine Zone, not even ZFMT, they need to move the land to the East.
As long as they do not make the legal procedure moving the lane, the old line is in effect.
Sincerely I do not know the catual plans, but the last time I talked with them about a year ago, they were planning to build the Sea walk and
commercial zone along it, in other words they were planning to build the malecon; they were one of the biggest construction companies in Latin America
a few years back and have their own capital to make the building at any time, but I do not know their actual plans, give me a few days and I will try
to get in contact with them.
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
Please do not trust them untill you have results, just keep a friendly constant pressure, make them feel that they will not calm you with a few smiles
and measures, you need results.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Wooosh
Please do not trust them untill you have results, just keep a friendly constant pressure, make them feel that they will not calm you with a few smiles
and measures, you need results. |
I took the word Trust out of my Real Estate vocabulary for Mexico. It would be
good to know what the plans for downtown Rosarito are, including the Malecon. Why does this entity who has paid for the National Land allow building
on it and allow people to advertise huge parcels of sandy beach for sale? Why not issue a cease and desist order when people do that? Why let people
build on it and create problems for investors when they come up for sale?
I am still confused. We do have two Federal Zone Concessions where the eastern co-ordinates are in the street. Ing Chavira put a nail in the street
to mark the edge of our concession there. Does this not mean the street is the edge of the Federal Zone for now? Once PROFEPA moved the line to the
street (based on our request and signed photo of waves coming over the seawall into the street), and SEMARNAT issues Federal Zone Titles to the same
point- what more needs to be done to make that line "official"?
I'll ask this: Given that this condo building is so far west as to be sitting in the Ocean, not even the Federal Zone- does this make selling the
condos more of a problem? What laws cover the Marine Zone?
[Edited on 7-6-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
It is the same situation the whole coast line in front of Rosarito Beach
Mr. Jorge Duran, the person who bought the Ranch Costa Azul that goes from CFE to Renes in astrip left from the Ejido Mazatlan, mostly 2 blocks have
not obtained the title, they have paid for the land and is a definitive sale by the SRA; the title issuing is just a formality.
At this time the SRA is still responsible for the land and that mean, the SRA is the one who allow irregular building, but they do not care, because
they know they just send the Federal Police or the Army or both to bring the squaters to explain why are they there.
For them squater is everybody who does not have a formal permisssion to use National Land. I tell this because I was there when the Animale problem
happened and Public Registry papers are worthless, they ask you for a formal permission to use National Land or a National Land title, not other
document works, because they have the information from the Federal Public Registries with them defining the zone a National Land.
Let me ask Ing. Chavira what the actual Federal Zone is concerning your lot, because he has the most recent information and I will be back to you with
that.
Concerning Mr. duran rights overlaping with yours do not worry
To move the ZFMT line is a legal technical procedure that affect private property and need to be done with extreme carefulness or somebody come and
the whole thing go down.
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Woooosh
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Great info as always Ramuna53- Thanks.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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Diane Gibbs charged with $4 Million in Real estate fraud for "La Esmeralda" by ten American investors:
http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/07072...
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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My friend, that is only the tip of the iceberg
I just received word that Hugo Torres is being investigated by the CIEDO for organized crime
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
My friend, that is only the tip of the iceberg
I just received word that Hugo Torres is being investigated by the CIEDO for organized crime |
Well, everyone got carried away down here trying to match the wealth of their American neighbors- they must have been inspired by the mortgage brokers
north of the border. These are wealthy people who already have their cake, they just want more icing. It always seem to be the way, doesn't it?
Mexico is a country of laws and the legal system is gaining traction.
From Wiki on SIEDO:
"Although SIEDO was intended to be corruption-proof, the Office has been rocked by allegations that top officials and field agents were on the payroll
of the notorious Gulf Cartel."
So Torres is being investigated by an agency who allegedly works with the people he's accused of racketeering with? How do you think that will go?
Maybe we'll get to see how serious Mexico is about legal reform with this case. There's still the PAN and PRI forces at work here too though.
[Edited on 7-10-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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A change happened with the last change in General District Attorney
I got this from top police echelons and at the same time I got word from South Baja that drugs are not available to drug addicts.
Looks like something is being done, a little late for this president, who is trying to correct the lost in control, from the last one, who came from
his own political party.
Next year Presidential elections will start and looks like PRI is coming back; that was assured with their triumph in the Mexico Estate, they won with
a big margin of 3 to 1 over the next PRD and PAN went to his historical niche of about 15%.
The people who will take charge is hard people who know how to deal with cartels, they are recruiting all the old police directors who had it under
control.
I am being asked buy those old experienced people, what is needed to correct the Baja Real Estate problem, I just delivered a huge study, but with the
warning that Hugo Torres has open control of the Estate Federal Courts and then they told not to worry about him because he has been operating on the
open for too long.
This happened to me when the new coming PAN Estate government came in to power and we know what happened, money is hard to refuse; they proffered to
use the old government tools to get rich fast instead of correcting the tools and the situation. Hope this is real but it certainly looks like is
going to happen, the old experienced people seem to know a little about internal National Security plans.
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wessongroup
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"What laws cover the Marine Zone" ....... Unless they intend to move the Pacific... would think good old mother nature will be taking care of any and
all structures built in that location .... with that type of construction methods....
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
A change happened with the last change in General District Attorney
I got this from top police echelons and at the same time I got word from South Baja that drugs are not available to drug addicts.
Looks like something is being done, a little late for this president, who is trying to correct the lost in control, from the last one, who came from
his own political party.
Next year Presidential elections will start and looks like PRI is coming back; that was assured with their triumph in the Mexico Estate, they won with
a big margin of 3 to 1 over the next PRD and PAN went to his historical niche of about 15%.
The people who will take charge is hard people who know how to deal with cartels, they are recruiting all the old police directors who had it under
control.
I am being asked buy those old experienced people, what is needed to correct the Baja Real Estate problem, I just delivered a huge study, but with the
warning that Hugo Torres has open control of the Estate Federal Courts and then they told not to worry about him because he has been operating on the
open for too long.
This happened to me when the new coming PAN Estate government came in to power and we know what happened, money is hard to refuse; they proffered to
use the old government tools to get rich fast instead of correcting the tools and the situation. Hope this is real but it certainly looks like is
going to happen, the old experienced people seem to know a little about internal National Security plans. |
It will be an interesting series of investigations and legal decisions once the PRI takes back over. It does looks like things are headed in that
direction.
[Edited on 7-11-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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wessongroup
Logic tell us, that the legal line has to move with nature changes, but for as long as the legal procedure for the changes is not fullfilled, the
legakl line exist at the same place.
What you need to do, is ask the authority, in this case the Admnistracion de la Zona Federal Maritimo Terrestre, to move the line now to adequate it
to the natural change.
They must make new technical works to verify that the natural changes has happened and just publizice the changes in order to start having legal
effects.
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Woooosh
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Some press this week for our Eduardo Rosales, Attorney at Law for Condominium Playa Bonita and President of AMPI Rosarito Beach.
http://www.elvigia.net/noticia/exigen-castigos-severos-quien...
"Demand severe punishment for those who commit fraud.
Rosarito, BC - A strong call for the judicial authorities of the State Council made by the State of Baja California Real Estate Professionals (CEPIBC)
to punish those who abuse the good faith of purchasers/investors against those who commit fraudulent acts that cause injury to the reputation of those
engaged in Real estate in an honest and professional manner.
... Eduardo Rosales, president of AMPI Rosarito, who agreed to note the urgent need to stop any abuse in the purchase and sale of property and pledged
to monitor cases that come to them to be clarified with justice."
Quite the co-incidence in timing with the Playa Bonita Condos posting he pulled from his agency. So far- no new listing agent has picked it up.
[Edited on 7-19-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
The penalties have been there for a long time, bet since those who were selling in a fraudulent way to American Customers, had a strong political
clout, the penalties were not being enforced and the politicians were trying to protect their own fraudulent acquisitions and protect their friends in
the Real Estate business.
When PAN took power in 1996, they promised to change that state of affairs, they promised to prosecute the perpetrators, they even started taking
strong actions and making it public, they invited me to give public lectures to educate the Real Estate and public officials, but the Governor failed
in his greed and took the whole PAN government with him to the dark side $$$$$$$.
What we see today, is that the American customer over who the Baja Economy rested, just got tired of the abuse and frankly, cynical abuse. He lost
confidence and stopped buying and not only that, he started to ask for his money back.
We saw it coming in Ensenada, but they never believed that it would happen in Rosarito and it did; the abuses in Ensendada reached record heights when
the Ensenada Major asked for all the concessions on the Baja races, then the Baja races promoters, just changed places for the races, leaving Ensenada
a ghost town.
Then the PAN government lost control of the drug cartels and insecurity followed, that was the last hit to the tourist business. Instead of an
overlord, the Estate officials became partners with the drug lords, then the drug lords graved power and took control, but a control that they didn’t
know how to use and abused it with violence, robberies and kidnappings. They took control of the beaches for their drug unloading and the public
officials thought that the drug business was better than the tourist trade and gave it priority.
Giving priority to the drug trade over the tourist trade was the greatest mistake they made; they were trying to cover up the fraud with national
Land, selling it like private property and the word started to come out and the American buyer started to become smarter buyer.
The Tijuana Ensenada coastal strip was full of developments financed with dark capital, dark capital abounded with the priority received, but the drug
trade is incompatible with the tourist trade when the drug lords are out of control, they start to fight over the territory and they have no limits in
their violence.
Now, they start to ask for control, but they should start by controlling themselves, by acting like the buyer representative, asking the sellers to
clean their act before selling.
They should ask not only for penalties to defrauders, but penalties against their own association members who work and earn money with the defrauders.
They are actually the hands who commit the fraud. They are the ones who fail the buyer when they do not investigate the legal title chain, down to the
bottom.
But they are not the only ones to blame, the public officials, the public notaries and the local, Federal and state authorities who did not prosecuted
in time the frauds and actually tried to cover them up.
To ask for penalties for the ones who commit the frauds, is cynic, because they should cry all the way to Mexico City to clean the whole Real Estate
business in Baja, or they do it, or the American buyer will not return with regained confidence.
To regain confidence is harder than to get it, they are going to make an example and keep it up for years, to convince the buyer that they are serious
on cleaning the Real Estate business in Baja.
The Federal Government must control the cartels, keep them in the bottle, invisible all the time and then restart the National Land title issuing
campaign they interrupted in 1994; they need to get rid of the Ejido Mazatlan, recovering all the lands they stole from National Land and recovering
all the millions they stole by selling Ejido Land. Land that they received for free to work, but that they have never worked, only sold the land,
creating the Rosarito urban disorder.
The road is clear, how to do it is not a mystery, they just have to resign to try to get rich with fraud; because the American buyer will not return
for more fraud, they will only return when they are sure, they will be sure in their persons and on their investment.
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Woooosh
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In the meantime it is important to provide land title information and education to the US and Canadian investors these illegal projects are marketed
to. Perhaps Mexican authorities and Realtors feel if they advertise in English-only and price sales in Dollars-only no one in Mexico would find out
who could interfere with their intent to defraud. For sure there are people who feel it is OK to take the money from Gringos without any shame or
hesitation. These people have already killed the goose that laid the golden egg, but now they are out of gold and need more. But Mexico is a country
of laws, and eventually they will be dealt with.
You see the recent case of a local man being defrauded by "Century 21" of $80,000 USD because he was foolish enough to believe they are the same
trusted company as north of the border. You see Diane Gibbs and Realty Executives being sued by 10 Americans for $4 Million USD in a case they had to
ask the US Consulate to intervene in. These are current fraud accusations- not even going back to Trump or Punta Banda. Like you say, investors will
only return when they are sure their investments are safe.
We will continue to evaluate the land title on projects and make the swimmers aware where the sharks are.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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