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wessongroup
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real estate = economy... up till a few years back... not sure where the "economy" will be getting the juice... from now on... don't think it will be
real estate... for a while.. IMHO
Thank you for the information on the "political response" to this issue within Mexico.. It all helps..
Perhaps there maybe a silver lining from all this.. as this issue would impact all the people of Mexico .. not just folks coming down from outside the
country... with money to buy property... land reform is and has been a very large issue with the Mexican people for a long time..
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ramuma53
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Wessogroup
Real Estate = Economy is a must, the problem is that they were taking advantage from the American customer for so long that they believed that it was
their birth right to keep stealing forever.
Now they have an uphill job to convince the customers to trust them again, they will try first just cosmetical changes, but when they get convinced
that the American buyer will not come back unless they give him real security on their investment, they will apply the existing laws, making a few
examples of some unluky realtors and developers in the hope that nobody notice that everybody was in the bisiness at one time or the other.
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Woooosh
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July 22 Update. Thanks to to the expert Land Title analysis and historical comments by Ramuna53, they have given up on selling these condos for now
at least. They will be for rent until the true land owner, Mr. Jorge Duran (Rancho Costa Azul), shows up to take posession of the building. No
individual investors will be harmed here now. Good job all and thanks for the help in getting all the facts out! Thanks to attorney Eduardo Rosales
too for doing the right thing to protect foreign investors.
So what's the next project in question?
[Edited on 7-22-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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elgatoloco
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Appreciate the effort.  
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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wessongroup
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Now that's some good news...
Appears one can effect change using current process's available to all...
Great job from information and recommendations presented right here...
A great service ... thanks to all...
Hey, Woooosh ... how about the economy ... 
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Now that's some good news...
Appears one can effect change using current process's available to all...
Great job from information and recommendations presented right here...
A great service ... thanks to all...
Hey, Woooosh ... how about the economy ... |
LOL. Fasten your seatbelt because imho the next big dip on the economic 'coaster will be a dooozie. The Eurozone has more than a few serious problems
that will be more than a ripple here. We'll suffer from the anticipation of the economic challenges ahead regardless, it's almost a self-fulfilling
prophecy. The Market Makers use any tidbit of investor's fear to manipulate the world economy to their advantage, regardless of what impact that has
on the rest of us.
What it means to Baja Real Estate? IMHO- If you are looking to US buyers I don't see that coming back at the individual investor level for five to
seven years. The rich have gotten richer the past three years- they are buying in Fiji, not Baja. The upper middle class is house-poor, not seeing
any equity or gains the past four years or so. Their concern is getting their current house back into the black and making money for their
retirement, not investing in a second home anywhere right now.
There will always be a trickle of buyers for Baja and lower-tier resales. I don't see US investors returning in large numbers until they have faith
in the US economy. I'm seeing more Chinese business relocating to Tijuana and Baja real estate is a bargain for them. I think Canadian are in the
same boat as the USA. What do you think skippy? 
[Edited on 7-23-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
The reason Mr. Duran is not worried about all that disorder, is because he bought the land from the Federal Government, who has not given him the law
formalities, represented by giving him his private property title and at the same time legal personality to defend the land in court, but at the same
time the commercial transaction was concluded at the instant he paid the Nation and the Nation received his money; at this time he is the legal owner,
but since the Federal government has not given him his title, the one responsible for defending the land in court is the SRA and at the time the
Federal Government give him his title, the Federal Government has to give him the sold land clean of any squatters (Hugo Torres and everyone else).
Concerning the Federal Government, to give the land clean of any squatters, they have the strong arm constituted by the Army and Federal Police and
that was the tool used on the Animale´s problem a couple of years back. (I think they did it as a legal try and example and now they have a precedent
that was what they really wanted)
The guy that was claiming Animale´s ownership, showed a sale contract by Hugo Torres and claimed that he bought the land legally from him and the
Federal Police inspected his documents and asked the SRA; after receiving the SRA official National land ownership confirmation, they just started a
federal investigation to see who was using Federal property in an illegal way, they went to Rosarito, caught the proclaimed owner, bought him to
Mexico city and took his formal declaration; of course his attorney showed the sale contract by Hugo Torres Chavert and claim of Private property;
then they informed them that they were claiming property of National Property and accepting they were using National property; they asked from them
the Federal permit to use National Land and received none, only the claim that it was private property already.
The Federal Police showed them the National Property declaration and asked for any proof that the land was extracted from National Property through a
legally issued title, in other words, their national land title; they produced nothing and claimed that Hugo Torres Chavert sold it to them as private
property and that his name was beyond doubt (????).
The Federal Police told them that concerning to them, they just confessed to using Federal property without legal permit and trying to sale National
land and being those felonies Federal heavy crimes, they would be retained in a Federal jail until a Federal Judge decided on their crimes, no bail
allowed.
At that time, they collapsed and asked to pay their way out without knowing Mr. Duran was there among the policeman; of course the petition was taken
note officially and denied and at that time informed them, their legal situation and that the only way out was by making a deal with Mr. Duran who was
the only recognized official permit holder to use that land.
They promptly signed a contract with Mr. Duran and ran out of the Federal Police headquarters in front of the Revolution monument in Mexico City.
There you see that you are right about the possibility to use a permission from him to demonstrate legal use of that land.
I will get in contact with him and ask for it, you can count on that, but timing may be a problem.
He and I are invited to an inauguration from the Giordano Bruno global education association that belongs to the Club of Budapest international
foundation in Budapest Hungary on September 15 and for sure I will see him there.
I will try to see him before that date, but I don’t know where he is in the world today, but I can promise you I will try to do it before that date
and for sure on that date.
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Woooosh
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Ramuma53. I think it is ok to go public with your efforts, take some credit. The Secretaria de Baja Proteccion al Ambiente Del Estado de Baja
California and PROFEPA have already been given this information and the cat is out of the proverbial bag. It is good to get my old brain back into
"Type A Woooosh" mode but I am certainly not fun to be around during this appeal (or so I have been told). "It" didn't need to exist in Baja before
and hopefully it will take off Friday. It won't drive me to drink -but a xanax and a shot of Jack Daniels seems to help.
I need to find the true owner of the land for my appeal, if there is one. That would be an important piece of information to prove the squatter didn't
own it and make my job easier. I know when Rancho La Costa Azul was mentioned- the sales listing for Playa Bonita Condos was removed right away.
Their lawyer and president of Rosarito Beach AMPI, Eduardo Rosales took quite the beating from Ramuma53 over it. We did give him credit for walking
away and not selling a land title problem to American investors. Ramuma53 says Jorge Duran defended his rights against "Club Animale" a few years
back, so this was two precedents I could reference.
SEMARNAT is going to cancel our concession in 15 days if we loose our appeal and I am throwing everything at it- and we'll see what sticks. Jorge
Duran's people apparently had pity on me, because I received a copy of the stamped map and the Payment receipt for Rancho La Costa Azul to the
Secretaria de La Reforma Agraria in 1993. In response to our video denuncia of January 2011, the Secretaria de Baja Proteccion al Ambiente Del Estad
asked PROFEPA who owned the land under the Playa Bonita Condos and copied me on it. I responded to the Secretaria that I had been given the documents
in confidence with limited permission to distribute them. So the Secretaria of Baja and PROFEPA has it all- as of yesterday. Maybe I can get the
Secretaria to order PROFEPA to intervene and make the appeal at of our concession to SEMARNAT unnecessary. Fat chance, huh.
[Edited on 8-21-2011 by Woooosh]
[Edited on 8-21-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
I caught with Mr. Duran; I have a meeting with him and his partners tomorrow afternoon, I explained your problem over the phone to him. concerning
timing and he told me, he will fly today from Acapulco to Mexico city to meet with me.
I am preparing a contract similar to the one Mr. Duran signed to the guy who claimed to be the Animale´s owner and is now renting it.
Don´t worry, you will not have to pay any rent.
Concerning your Semarnat concession, let them act, if they denny your conceccion, be certain they will regret it and I will get it for you here in
Mexico city and notice that I am not saying I will try to get it for you.
Just don´t let them go the easy way and if they denny it, make an appeal and I will take it from there, but I hope they will do the right thing and
don´t worry about their friends, they are small fish.
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
I need the name you want the contract to be issued to, please send it to my email
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Woooosh
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I am speechless... This is like a John Grisham novel. Of course it will be in your e-mail in three seconds. Amazing.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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BajaGringo
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Cool!
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
I met with Mr. Duran legal team yesterday untill 11 PM, they agree with me and the contract will be ready today and signed this afternoon by Mr.
Duran.
Since his papaers have already been tested by the PGR it is safe to use them at your convenience.
The next question is how do I let you have this document together with the full National Land file??
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Wooosh
I met with Mr. Duran legal team yesterday untill 11 PM, they agree with me and the contract will be ready today and signed this afternoon by Mr.
Duran.
Since his papaers have already been tested by the PGR it is safe to use them at your convenience.
The next question is how do I let you have this document together with the full National Land file?? |
Please use the physical address for Mr. Nava as listed on the the ID I sent you. I do think Mr. Duran should consider changing the name of his
building to "Costa Azul" to give his name an "anchor."
There is an Estafeta office near us. Please send it express and register and track it- to arrive here as soon as possible. If the lease can be
scanned and sent right away, that would help- but we will continue to prepare the appeal with the expectation it will arrive.. We our sending our
reply to the Director General of SEMARNAT on Saturday via Estafeta. Gracias Amigo. Woooosh
[Edited on 8-24-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Looking good ... 
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Looking good ... |
Ya know Wiley- this is just so surreal. Once I get our appeal off to SEMARNAT on Saturday I'll have more time to post.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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Just got the appeal off to the Director General of SEMARNAT today. If anyone in the real estate forum wants a copy of it to estimate my chances- send
me a U2U with your e-mail. 4MB file. (Spanish)
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
The federal zone is according to the law is:
{When the coast has a beach and the solid ground beside the beach has a natural slope of less than 30 degrees, a Federal zone will be measured
starting on the first solid ground and measuring 20 meters inland.}
That is the law, but let’s now interpret it.
That mean that Federal Zone exist only where the coast has a beach.
That mean that the Federal zone exist only if the solid ground beside the beach has a less than 30 degree slope.
The Federal Zone will be measured starting from the highest ocean water´s level, measured on NORMAL CONDITIONS (That mean not during a storm or
extreme high tide)
Those are two conditions that the law has so the Federal Zone exists and that mean that if those conditions does not exist, the Federal Zone will not
be measured and established.
In your case the coast has a beach and the slope has less than 30 degrees, so a Federal Zone must exist starting from the highest water level during
normal conditions.
Technically, when the Federal Zone is measured, it is measured by an official team, usually a very efficient team (usually because in North Baja the
work is spotless but in South Baja it was a sloppy work that sometimes goes 60 mts. inland.).
Then official markers are put in the ground but very usually those markers are destroyed by extreme waves or vandalism, but where they exist in North
Baja, they are exact to the millimeter and used normally by the professional topographical teams to establish official position and that mean that you
can reference a land lot in any place measuring its position related to those markers.
That mean, that the Federal Zone, once measured and published on official maps, becomes a mathematical reference and you can find the position of any
official marker with a precision of 3 millimeters.
That mean in your case that the Federal Zone, exist as a theoretical line, that is a legal limit to that Federal Zone, but that line was established
and measured in 1976 when the official plans for the Federal Zone in that area were published by the Federal Government.
Now a practical problem comes in to play, in 1976, the coastal line was different, the CFE breakwater has modified the coastal line while the
Theoretical line has not moved at all to reflect the new limits for the coastal line.
The law has not changed and it keeps defining the Federal zone in that area the same way (in 1992 the law changed and the Federal Zone does not exist
beside cliffs because they have a slope of more than 30 degrees) and now we have a disagreement between the Zone measured in 1976 and the Zone that is
inside the theoretical line limit for the Federal Zone in 1976.
Your concession was granted only a few years back while the Cadastral limits were established long time ago and measured according to the 1976
theoretical Federal Zone.
That mean that the building was built according to the theoretical Federal Zone limits while your concession was granted according to the actual
limits and there is a disagreement between those two lines that is being exploited by the building to allow it to exist there while the local Federal
Zone does not want to see the disagreement.
What to do? There are official procedures to modify the theoretical lines and make them agree with reality and that mean that the Federal Zone
authorities must modify the Federal Zone works and publish the results so everyone know where the real coastal line is to 3 mm in rescission.
That is known as Ground invaded by the sea modifications, but as you know, to modify all those plans on a regular basis, is an endless job and a very
costly job for the government, so they do not do it, unless somebody ask for them.
That is your case, you must ask for that theoretical line to be modified and put where it agree with reality and that will put the building inside the
ocean and on Marine Zone, not Federal zone and you cannot build in Marine Zone.
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Woooosh
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What is the process? Is it a denunica against the condo? A letter to SEMARNAT or PROFEPA?
btw: The condo people left the building and have fired the one worker. It has been sitting dark and empty since we challenged the sale of it on this
forum.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
A formal request to SEMARNAT and PROFEPA with copy to the Mexico President and down to the local SEMARNAT delegate, incluiding your motives and
problems created by the ommision of that official job.
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