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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Likely for the same reason that you cant demand changes to US policy. You can demand, but to no effect....There is a process.....usually taught in
Civics 101....
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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when this particular protest started a few years back, I got mail from local friends urging me to sign up to be against that mine
- but I don't know anything about it, how can I just be against it?
mines are bad
- how is this one bad?
they pollute the environment
- but they are not even working yet
they will put poison in the ground
- aren't there regulations?
they are criminals ignoring the laws
etc etc etc
so I started informing myself about that mine and geology in BCS
reading the bible is easier
but in order to be for or against something, one has to get informed
not just listen to the preachers on either side
bottom line is that the mining operators appear on paper that they follow all rules and regulations
the protesters appear very emotional, blessed with ignorance and what's really bad, outright lying about the impact of that mine
if people lie to me, I will not listen very long - they lose all credibility
maybe those poor protesters have been breathing the air of La Paz for too long. It is home to the dirtiest power plant in all of Mexico. Inhalers are
the hottest selling item in pharmacies - La Paz has the highest mortality for respiratory illnesses in the country.
Worth protesting against? Hell no - how would the affluent protesters power all their gadgets, running their AC while designing a new protest poster.
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64521
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Excellent reply Harald!
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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so, if there is criminal activity - isn't the police your next resource?
Harald Pietschmann
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danaeb
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
Registered: 11-13-2006
Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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Mood: groovy
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Would you share your sources with us?
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  |
maybe those poor protesters have been breathing the air of La Paz for too long. It is home to the dirtiest power plant in all of Mexico. Inhalers are
the hottest selling item in pharmacies - La Paz has the highest mortality for respiratory illnesses in the country.
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Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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danaeb, ever hear of Google?
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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I want to make one thing clear - I am not a supporter of the mining industry (or any other business). Companies in collusion with the government have
too much blood on their hands.
Society is a living organism with with many competing sections. It has improved over the last few thousand years - but it is far away from fair or
balanced (is that even possible in nature?).
Some societies (usually the older ones) are a bit more advanced - some are a few hundred years behind. Mexico is definitely not on the cutting edge.
Things seem like Europe 200 years ago, or the US 100 years ago.
See this and you'll get an idea:
http://www.upworthy.com/have-you-ever-heard-of-the-ludlow-ma...
Unless we want to start a revolution, we have to follow the existing pathways and laws that we currently have to advance. Otherwise all this has no
more value than bar talk.
Harald Pietschmann
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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My dad worked for Peabody coal mine in western Kentucky in the early 30s as did many of his family. The part about the company store is right on. The
company paid in company script and it was only good at the company store where items were more ecpensive than in town.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64521
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: Originally posted by TMW | | My dad worked for Peabody coal mine in western Kentucky in the early 30s as did many of his family. The part about the company store is right on. The
company paid in company script and it was only good at the company store where items were more ecpensive than in town. |
Is that the case now, 85 years later? Is the economy still that depressed that people must accept script for pay?
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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No
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by TMW | | My dad worked for Peabody coal mine in western Kentucky in the early 30s as did many of his family. The part about the company store is right on. The
company paid in company script and it was only good at the company store where items were more ecpensive than in town. |
Is that the case now, 85 years later? Is the economy still that depressed that people must accept script for pay? |
No, thanks to government regulation!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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This one kept going through my mind ...
Seemed this had been gone over before ... perhaps not the same exact location, but, basically the same situation and the same responses to mining
operations and/or operators ... in Baja
| Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup | | Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yes... the need is for the resources and jobs.
It is Mexico, we Norteamericanos don't really want to sound like we are telling them what they can do in their country, do we?
There would be no Santa Rosalia if not for the copper and the French... It already is a mine. |
Believe the thrust of the query was the accuracy of the (Press Release) from an entity and their stated “projections” and “research” conducted by
their paid consultant.
The people of Mexico most certainly have "their" right to do anything they wish with their Country.
And I do not recall statements of anyone that the Mexican people should be denied work of any type.
The point raised, was directed towards the "press release" which was posted here on Baja Nomads
Would add I have serious doubt that the Government of Mexico will be making any decisions on this issue based on what was/is posted here.
This was merely a cursory "review" of information posted, and the apparent shortcomings of same.
Mining is and will continue, in Mexico, as one of the largest operators is found in Mexico “Grupo México”. Who is the parent of ASARCO LLC, currently
in chapter 11 in the States, and has left a total of 20 superfund sites around the Nation. Which the people of the United States will be cleaning up
some day.
Would just hope to see a business approach which includes all factors for the benefit of Mexican People and their Country, both short and long term.
We in the United States have a legacy of mining operations which have left serious environmental and health problems for the people of the United
States to deal with.
The sharing of our knowledge and experiences I would hope could be viewed as helpful not negative and/or hurtful to the Mexican people, as that would
be the intent.
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This is from 2010 ...
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=43644
Some REAL progress ... HUH 
[Edited on 4-27-2015 by wessongroup]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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The area of this mine has the most surface water in Baja Sur, they are planning to have pond to contain the contaminates from a cyanide leaching
operation. I question the wisdom of such an operation in an area that periodically gets inundated by hurricanes that have dumped over 24" of rain in
24 hours. How can they possibly keep their leach ponds from overflowing and contaminating the surface water when we have another event like that? The
ground water in that area is already highly contaminated from previous mining operations. This is the watershed that charges many of the aquifers in
the cape region that provide irrigation and drinking water. Mining is a necessary industry, but I have no confidence that the corrupt government of
BCS will effectively regulate this mine any better than they do anything else.
[Edited on 4-28-2015 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by monoloco | The area of this mine has the most surface water in Baja Sur, they are planning to have pond to contain the contaminates from a cyanide leaching
operation. I question the wisdom of such an operation in an area that periodically gets inundated by hurricanes that have dumped over 24" of rain in
24 hours. How can they possibly keep their leach ponds from overflowing and contaminating the surface water when we have another event like that? The
ground water in that area is already highly contaminated from previous mining operations. This is the watershed that charges many of the aquifers in
the cape region that provide irrigation and drinking water. Mining is a necessary industry, but I have no confidence that the corrupt government of
BCS will effectively regulate this mine any better than they do anything else.
[Edited on 4-28-2015 by monoloco] |
Good point indeed. Are you certain that the Canadian mine company will not 'self regulate' their activities and run a clean operation in order to
preserve their ability to mine in the future? |
Maybe that is the point. No one is certain. The track record fr mining industries in Mexico is not very good. Do we wait until their is another
disaster and then say "we shoulda"?
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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you can lament over mines or no mines - or where they should be (never close to your house), one thing is certain: governments/money will always have
the upper hand. Don't fool yourself with democracy. The "always" rule will still apply.
Interesting though - where was the protest when places like Cabo or Todos Santos were destroyed be real estate developers? Public beaches were taken
off the map in La Paz by investors?
Interesting that the Canadian/American yoga/organic crowd after leaving their dirty places NOB (places they helped to get effed up) wants to teach
their hosts how to keep their place clean.
Harald Pietschmann
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Maybe they learned...or maybe its the NIMBY attitude. Either way, your right, money will likely win out.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I'm not worried about a mine close to my house, but based on their previous track records, I worry very much about them being close to my water
source. It's not just "the Canadian/American yoga/organic crowd" who is against this mine, a very high percentage of local people oppose it and the
protests are being organized by Mexicans from BCS. It's true that their are residents of the San Antonio area who favor the mine for the perceived
economic benefits, but that support doesn't exist among residents of BCS in general. I was in Todos Santos during one of the protests, and I would
estimate that the participants were over 90% Mexican citizens.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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One time money did not win out. The citizens fought the Mitsubishi salt industry and won when Mitsubishi wanted the worlds largest salt works between
San Ignacio and Punta Abreojos. It can happen.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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Not for most Mexicans.
Statistically, most Mexicans don't even bother to file a police report when they are the victim of a crime because they have absolutely zero
confidence in law enforcement.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Perhaps this approach to "our" impact on the planet can help ... nothing thus far has ...
“Climate change is a defining issue of our time,” United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon told attendees at the Vatican conference. “It
is a moral issue, it is an issue of social justice, human rights and fundamental ethics.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-27/pope-summo...
Dittos on "enforcement" and/or Government Laws and Regulations ... Look at the BP ... Spill/Release
[Edited on 4-28-2015 by wessongroup]
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