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David K
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CO2 is a natural gas and created in greater quantity by nature than man could ever dream of creating. It bubbles up out of the ocean, and the earth is
mostly ocean. Now, that is just what I knew from living and listening. However, you like to read it for yourself, I will search the question online...
OK, here is what comes up from these sources:
US Geological Survey
Oregon State University, Oceanography department
National Geographic Explorer
Volcanoes National Park >>>
Carbon dioxide is a common gas that comes from primarily natural sources, when a carbon atom combines with an oxygen molecule. It makes up
a small, but important part of our atmosphere, which is primarily nitrogen and oxygen. Though only a small amount of the atmosphere is made of CO2,
this is still a huge amount in weight and volume. It is reasonable to wonder what the major sources are.
The greatest amount of carbon dioxide is locked up in plants, rocks, and the oceans. It should not be surprising that these each contribute more CO2
emissions than any other sources.
The people who firmly believe that man is the biggest culprit may not take it happily, but the biggest source of CO2 emissions is volcanic eruptions.
There is a huge amount of carbon dioxide locked up in rocks. As the rocks melt, they give up the gas, and this is expelled during the eruption. Often,
the larger the eruption, the more carbon dioxide is released along with other gases, such as hydrogen sulfide.
At any given time, according to agencies such as the USGS, there are about 13-17 volcanoes erupting somewhere on Earth. This means that yearly,
volcanoes spew out hundreds or even thousands of times more carbon dioxide than man is capable of producing, even if he tried. Man is actually an
insignificant producer of CO2, though he is prideful enough to think he is a major player.
Thankfully, ocean water has a great propensity for absorbing this gas, and as ice melts, as it has done for the past 11,000 years, it means that the
oceans can take in a great deal more CO2. Many of the volcanoes occur in the ocean, so it has a good chance to absorb a lot of this gas. Above the
surface, though, the gas is vented into the atmosphere.
Next in line for emissions is the decomposition of plant life. This can be in the form of natural death and decay, forest fire, or even use and
consumption. Plants contain a great deal of carbon dioxide and carbon. These are released as the plant dies and decomposes. (Oregon State agricultural
extension service, Albany, Oregon)
According to Steve (last name withheld on request), retired thermal imaging specialist, the amount of CO2 released is staggering. One major forest
fire can release nearly as much carbon dioxide as a moderate volcanic eruption. That is enormous compared to other sources of emissions, excluding
volcanic eruption. (US Forest Service; western fire suppression center, Boise, ID)
The next biggest emitter of carbon dioxide is probably the ocean. It absorbs a great deal of the gas, however, the colder it is, the more it can hold.
The bottom of the ocean contains water that is below the freezing point, but salinity and pressure prevent it from freezing. Contained CO2 tends to
stay there for a long time.
However, in some places, like the Gulf of Mexico and in the Caribbean, surface waters get relatively hot, releasing carbon dioxide in the process.
Colder polar waters offset this, because the gas is absorbed again, however this is still a major source of emissions.
A person may wonder where man and other animals fit into all of this. After all, animals breathe in oxygen and breath out carbon dioxide. Their bodies
also contain CO2 and carbon, which is released when they die and decompose. Man also burns fossil fuels, which does release CO2 as a byproduct.
However, animals including man don’t produce nearly as much carbon dioxide as the major producers with the possible exception of the death and
decomposition of animals.
Note that exact figures for the amount of CO2 released through the use of fossil fuels, is hard to come by. The figures tend to range from high to
low, depending on sources, though not approaching that produced by volcanic eruption, by comparing the numbers to those given by the USGS and volcano
researchers. The latter figures are available from the USGS website, and through the US national park system.
The largest emitters of carbon dioxide are volcanic eruptions, forest and wild fires, and natural decomposition of plants and animals. This is a good
thing, since there is a relatively stable and finite amount of both oxygen and carbon on this planet. If it weren’t for carbon dioxide, the earth
could well be a frozen ball in space, and life, as we know it, would probably not be able to survive.
Sources:
US Geological Survey
Oregon State University, Oceanography department
National Geographic Explorer
Volcanoes National Park
Link: http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/news-channels/global/the-m...
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
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Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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Once again, DK throws up pseudoscience in the face of reality. That article is "based" and interpreted to attempt to answer back for the real science
of Greenhouse Gas Emissions.....CO2, which is fostering human caused climate change. Keep on keepin' on with the denial. The truth, however, will set
you free.....sure, volcanoes do cause a spike in those emissions which might have an impact when they're active but they are not part of this problem
and not part of any solution......just obfuscation....reminds me of the "Family Caucus" which is Tea Party sponsored.....by two of the richest
brothers in the world....who have that agenda....
For the foreseeable future, fossil energy will remain the backbone of the world’s energy system, given their present dominance. Furthermore, the
worlds reliance on fossil energy brings about an associated problem, namely the emissions connected to the combustion of these fossil fuels. In fact,
energy production is also the dominating source of anthropogenic greenhouse gasses (GHG), particularly carbon dioxide. In 2008, nearly 30 billion tons
of CO2 were emitted due to fossil fuel consumption (IEA, 2010). Around 57% of all global anthropogenic GHGs derive from fossil fuel combustion, with
energy supply as the largest contributing sector (Fig. 2). Anthropogenic global warming and climate change caused by GHG emissions exhibits a strong
and fundamental link to fossil energy production and shapes how it will develop over the coming decades. Consequently, examining likely and possible
trajectories of the future energy use and production are vital for understanding future climate change based on GHG emissions from human activities.
Lots of real data and science is available for those who really want knowledge of the truth: http://www.intechopen.com/books/climate-change-research-and-...
[Edited on 9-30-2015 by BajaNomad]
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6961
Registered: 8-5-2011
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People can swap essays that support their opinions
until the cows come home.
You can find something to support whatever your position is.
For me, I'll go along with what the major scientific associations
are stating.
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
My previous posts were to straighten out some statements
made that I thought to be erroneous.
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bajacamper
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Quote: Originally posted by bajacamper  | | The esteemed Mr. Limbaugh made the observation today that no one, scientist or otherwise, makes any predictions regarding the coming climate disasters
One, Two, or Five years down the road. Fifty or One Hundred year predictions, no problem. I guess I could do that. Who will be around to prove me
wrong? |
Still no one wants to comment on long range predictions as opposed to shorter versions??
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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Limbaugh's comment doesn't make any sense.
There is nothing disastrous to predict in the short term,
1, 2, or 5 years, that is related to climate change.
It's a relatively slow, long term process.
[Edited on 9-29-2015 by SFandH]
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ncampion
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Gee, I just hate to prolong the agony of this thread, but if you're going to attack someone's post at least get your own facts straight. The pretty
pie chart showing the sources of CO2 production FROM ANTHROPOGENIC SOURCES. That has nothing to do with the posters article which compared CO2
production from ALL sources, both man made and natural. Show me that pretty pie chart please.
[Edited on 9-30-2015 by BajaNomad]
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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bajacamper
Nomad
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Of course any other views but yours are dangerous indeed, but thanks for the insightful thoughts anyway.
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Lee
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If I can reach Prof. Rignot by phone, I"ll report back expanding on his comments.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | The posting of these photos is really unnecessary unless the point is to agree with what the scientists are saying.
From the original post:
"Global sea levels have risen an average of 3 inches over nearly a quarter century, but not along the West Coast. NASA scientists say
long-term climatic patterns have lowered sea levels along California, Oregon and Washington in recent decades........."
emphasis added. |
Why hasn't anyone mentioned the lower sea levels on the west coast as a problem? Are we just going to stand by and watch sea levels drop to dangerous
levels? Something has to be done about this....perhaps there isn't enough fossil fuels being burned in California. Maybe a pumping station and
pipeline from somewhere where the sea levels are rising to the west coast could eliminate the discrepancy. Maybe there are some carbon tax dollars
available for the project?
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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bajabuddha
Banned
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Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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"On his radio show Monday, Rush Limbaugh dismissed NASA’s announcement, saying the agency was falsifying data and promoting claims about climate
change. “There’s so much fraud,” he said. “What's to stop them from making up something that happened on Mars that will help advance their left-wing
agenda on this planet?” An image for the segment on Limbaugh’s website depicts the face of former Vice President Al Gore superimposed over that of
aliens from the 1996 film Mars Attacks!."
.....taken from an article on msn just now. I won't even dignify the web addy. It's so blatantly a perfect fit for this thread, my sides hurt from
laughing... sometimes the absurd is hysterical.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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Location: Kamloops, BC
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Ya know....I just can't get any sleep now that I know that the salty water identified on Mars recently will be "liberal/socialist" water.
And that means I will have to share it when I go to Mars......????
Those damned scientists are screwing all this up.....
Don't believe everything you think....
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Zola
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Location: San Juanico, Point Loma
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There are only three points to be made, no others.
First, the climate-change deniers are doing the dirty work of the petroleum and coal industries, just like the NRA does the work of the arms
merchants, and just like the pro-tobacco crowd did the work of the tobacco merchants until the crushing evidence made it impossible to challenge any
longer. But most climate-change deniers aren't paid a dime for their immoral lobbying. They are doing it because they think climate-change is a
liberal cause, and they hate liberals more than they care about the truth or the well-being of their own grandchildren.
Second, climate-change isn't a liberal cause, but rather is a manmade phenomenon that will likely render the planet uninhabitable for most or all
mammals alive, including us. Liberals and conservatives and everyone else must learn to use energy sources that do not emit carbon dioxide, and fast.
Either we can switch over almost entirely to renewables and nuclear, or lean how to burn fossil fuels in a clean manner, if that is possible.
Realistically, people will not stop using energy, and so we must now begin a massive switch to clean energy.
Third, stop debating with these people. They merely want to draw the world into a "debate" so that they can say that the matter remains unresolved and
open to doubt. Well, the matter has been resolved. The only issue is what can we do to mitigate and adapt to man-made climate change.
“Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.” Dr. Seuss
“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” George Bernard Shaw
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6961
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Thanks Zola. Absolutely!
I don't think anybody that matters (top policy makers) denies anthropogenic global warming is occurring.
Even among the general population, those that do are in the minority.
As you say: "The only issue is what can we do to mitigate and adapt to man-made climate change."
[Edited on 9-29-2015 by SFandH]
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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Stop that argument. It's silly.
The fact that the climate changed before naturally has nothing to do
with what is happening now. Nothing.
What you're saying is like saying people can't cause forest fires
because they happened naturally in the past.
Ridiculous.
[Edited on 9-29-2015 by SFandH]
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by ncampion | Gee, I just hate to prolong the agony of this thread, but if you're going to attack someone's post at least get your own facts straight. The pretty
pie chart showing the sources of CO2 production FROM ANTHROPOGENIC SOURCES. That has nothing to do with the posters article which compared CO2
production from ALL sources, both man made and natural. Show me that pretty pie chart please.
|
The 'NON ANTHROPOGENIC' sources have not changed in the last 200 years. The Co2 buildup started during the Industrial Age and has increased greatly
recently. If you're going to quote other sources of Co2 generation you need to correlate it with events as they are occurring. Merely stating that
they exist is meaningless.
[Edited on 9-30-2015 by BajaNomad]
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bajacamper
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OK, please tell me how we clean up India, China, and closer to home, Mexico? Hmmmmm.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
For me, the reason for my passion on this it is the taking away of our freedoms by a few special interest liberal groups who think they should control
our lives.
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Bi-partisan and divisive, us vs. them nonsense.
Yes you lost some freedom after 9/11 but doubt you can name freedoms you've personally lost.
There's an idea. Few liberal groups wanting to control the lives…. of ALL Americans?
Looking suspiciously like a conspiracy theory, eh?
Let's focus on the earth and not conservative wallets?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6961
Registered: 8-5-2011
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All the major scientific organizations disagree. Why do you think that is?
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
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Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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You stepped right into it again. I wonder if stupid conservatives know the difference between science and their small minded beliefs about big
government taking away their rights.....to be stupid.....
| Quote: |
The current episode of global warming is attributed primarily to increasing industrial CO2 emissions into Earth's atmosphere. The global annual mean
concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased markedly since the Industrial Revolution, from 280 ppm to 400 ppm as of 2015.[4] The present
concentration is the highest in the past 800,000 years[5] and likely the highest in the past 20 million years.[6] The increase has been caused by
anthropogenic sources, particularly the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.[7] |
And the references:
| Quote: |
4.Amos, Jonathan (2006-09-04). "Deep ice tells long climate story". BBC News.
5. Retrieved 2010-04-28. Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis Etheridge, D. M.; L. P. Steele; R. L. Langenfelds; R. J. Francey; J.-M. Barnola; V.
I. Morgan (1996).
6."Natural and anthropogenic changes in atmospheric CO2 over the last 1000 years from air in Antarctic ice and firn".
7. Journal of Geophysical Research 101 (D2): 4115–4128. Bibcode:1996JGR...101.4115E. doi:10.1029/95JD03410. ISSN 0148-0227. |
You are rebuttheaded.....again.....
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | The graph clearly is called "Anthropogenic" emissions... as ncampion said, it is meaningless as a rebuttal to what I posted!
I wonder if liberals use big words to confuse the masses?
Here is what anthropogenic means:
adjective
1.
caused or produced by humans:
anthropogenic air pollution.
=======================================================
So the graph is meant to scare the dollars right out of your pocket and put leftists into office... because 100% of the CO2 on that graph is only a
SMALL % of the source of CO2 on the planet.
The key paragraphs from the article above the misleading pie graph, if you didn't read them:
The people who firmly believe that man is the biggest culprit may not take it happily, but the biggest source of CO2 emissions is volcanic eruptions.
There is a huge amount of carbon dioxide locked up in rocks. As the rocks melt, they give up the gas, and this is expelled during the eruption. Often,
the larger the eruption, the more carbon dioxide is released along with other gases, such as hydrogen sulfide.
The next biggest emitter of carbon dioxide is probably the ocean. It absorbs a great deal of the gas, however, the colder it is, the more it can hold.
The bottom of the ocean contains water that is below the freezing point, but salinity and pressure prevent it from freezing. Contained CO2 tends to
stay there for a long time.
However, in some places, like the Gulf of Mexico and in the Caribbean, surface waters get relatively hot, releasing carbon dioxide in the process.
Colder polar waters offset this, because the gas is absorbed again, however this is still a major source of emissions.
A person may wonder where man and other animals fit into all of this. After all, animals breathe in oxygen and breath out carbon dioxide. Their bodies
also contain CO2 and carbon, which is released when they die and decompose. Man also burns fossil fuels, which does release CO2 as a byproduct.
However, animals including man don’t produce nearly as much carbon dioxide as the major producers with the possible exception of the death and
decomposition of animals.
Man is actually an insignificant producer of CO2, though he is prideful enough to think he is a major player.
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Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17429
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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The only right or "freedom" anyone is talking about limiting is people's mistaken notion they have some kind of right to pollute! Why do polluters
always think they have a right right to pollute?
[Edited on 9-30-2015 by BajaNomad]
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