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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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There are thieves in all walks of life. The guy defrauded the government out of $900,000 and got caught. Read the article.
Anybody using this incident to support their opinion about climate change is really reaching.
[Edited on 8-30-2015 by SFandH]
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | | Natural erosion of coastlines is normal... cliffs fall into the sea and sand moves. Of course, climate change is normal too... The article makes it
sound like something is different now, that storms never ate away at the barrier reef before this year? It's as if they think things don't change for
30 years, means they should never change??? |
Storms haven't been eroding the island in the past at the rate they are now, since sea ice is present less every year and thus allowing more wave
action. Of course the $64,000 question is how much is anthropomorphic influence is to blame. Seems to me that vaporizing 100 million years of
accumulated carbon deposits in the span of a couple centuries would have an effect, but I don't know what can realistically be done to cool the carbon
economy at this point...too much momentum. A 3 foot rise in sea level would be devastating to many country's economies---ports, housing, arable land,
etc. But perhaps we'll need to have that wake up call before too much action is taken, maybe its even wise to let things get bad--its good motivation
to actually change the way we create energy on a global scale...if need be.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I thought I knew something about the arguments on both sides of the issue but I found the most informative book on the issue to be:
Climate Change: The Facts Paperback – April 21, 2015
by J.Abbot (Author), J.S. Armstrong (Author), A.Bolt (Author), R.Carter (Author), & 20 more
279 customer reviews
See all 2 formats and editions
Kindle
$9.95
Read with Our Free App
Paperback
$15.89
2 Used from $49.79
3 New from $15.89
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | There are thieves in all walks of life. The guy defrauded the government out of $900,000 and got caught. Read the article.
Anybody using this incident to support their opinion about climate change is really reaching.
[Edited on 8-30-2015 by SFandH] |
The obvious point is that the promoters of climate change may be committing fraud and may not being carefully monitored, vetted and supervised as
demonstrated by the example provided by the EPA's leading expert.
Corruption in the EPA is relevant. Morals, ethics and best practices are critical elements to believability of thesis and argument put forth by the
EPA.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What is clear is that some here want to believe the predictions of a terrible future and some here can see for themselves what is real. No excuses for
pollution, no Republican party line, just what actually is right now. For sure anyone can see the palms at El Coyote (next to the water) are the same
height above sea level 60 years between pictures. The photos are not debatable. Live well, help others, clean up after yourselves, and be happy.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17341
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | What is clear is that some here want to believe the predictions of a terrible future and some here can see for themselves what is real. No excuses for
pollution, no Republican party line, just what actually is right now. For sure anyone can see the palms at El Coyote (next to the water) are the same
height above sea level 60 years between pictures. The photos are not debatable. Live well, help others, clean up after yourselves, and be happy.
|
Regardless of the results of your horticultural-based study of sea levels, there are places all over the world already experiencing higher sea levels
causing damage to infrastructure,... Some places the effect of higher sea levels is so severe they are rebuilding infrastructure or even moving
communities subject to flooding.
You have to be a fool to not plan for it, and you have to be a fool to refuse to consider all solutions.
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | What is clear is that some here want to believe the predictions of a terrible future and some here can see for themselves what is real. No excuses for
pollution, no Republican party line, just what actually is right now. For sure anyone can see the palms at El Coyote (next to the water) are the same
height above sea level 60 years between pictures. The photos are not debatable. Live well, help others, clean up after yourselves, and be happy.
|
Regardless of the results of your horticultural-based study of sea levels, there are places all over the world already experiencing higher sea levels
causing damage to infrastructure,... Some places the effect of higher sea levels is so severe they are rebuilding infrastructure or even moving
communities subject to flooding.
You have to be a fool to not plan for it, and you have to be a fool to refuse to consider all solutions. |
It's about what is already happening and reflects on the ability to ignore those facts, that's called active ignorance. Just like the claim that
humans are a small part of the planet ignores the population density data. Just like the measurements of humans depleting the worldwide aquifers can
be ignored. The present is dire for a large portion of humanity and ignoring them and the facts can not make you happy for long, particularly if you
have children who will inherit those issues. Responsibility demands that we all acknowledge the problems and act on them. Finding a few faulty
"experts" does not change the bottom line either, that's called misdirection. If you have counter data composed of facts to present, that is useful. I
see very little of that and it causes those folks to have no credibility in their positions. If you don't like the labels, don't practice the
behaviours......
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pescador | I thought I knew something about the arguments on both sides of the issue but I found the most informative book on the issue to be:
Climate Change: The Facts Paperback – April 21, 2015
by J.Abbot (Author), J.S. Armstrong (Author), A.Bolt (Author), R.Carter (Author), & 20 more
279 customer reviews
See all 2 formats and editions
Kindle
$9.95
Read with Our Free App
Paperback
$15.89
2 Used from $49.79
3 New from $15.89
|
Quote from Amazon, "The authors of Climate Change: The Facts number some of the most prominent dissenters from Big Climate alarmism...."
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | What is clear is that some here want to believe the predictions of a terrible future and some here can see for themselves what is real. No excuses for
pollution, no Republican party line, just what actually is right now. For sure anyone can see the palms at El Coyote (next to the water) are the same
height above sea level 60 years between pictures. The photos are not debatable. Live well, help others, clean up after yourselves, and be happy.
|
Regardless of the results of your horticultural-based study of sea levels, there are places all over the world already experiencing higher sea levels
causing damage to infrastructure,... Some places the effect of higher sea levels is so severe they are rebuilding infrastructure or even moving
communities subject to flooding.
You have to be a fool to not plan for it, and you have to be a fool to refuse to consider all solutions. |
Is that what the photos of the sea level next to a palm tree are called? Sea level is a standard point of measurement and is not different in one
place from another beyond the tidal movement and other gravitational influences of a few inches to a few feet. Plate techtonics and erosion are
perhaps a more honest explanation for an area seeing the ocean closer or 'higher'. Salt water in the aquafer is more due to agriculture pumping out
fresh water faster than rain can replace it. The Magdalena Plain and Vizcaino are examples.
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yakyak2010
Junior Nomad
Posts: 94
Registered: 4-24-2010
Location: Victorville, Ca.
Member Is Offline
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Proven science. We need do to public service warnings on tv. "If your feet get wet, walk away from the water and wait another quarter of a century".
I think this should save lives.
I\'ve been told I\'m preoccupied with Baja. They just don\"t understand, in fact neither do I.
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: Originally posted by DianaT | | Quote: Originally posted by Pescador | I thought I knew something about the arguments on both sides of the issue but I found the most informative book on the issue to be:
Climate Change: The Facts Paperback – April 21, 2015
by J.Abbot (Author), J.S. Armstrong (Author), A.Bolt (Author), R.Carter (Author), & 20 more
279 customer reviews
See all 2 formats and editions
Kindle
$9.95
Read with Our Free App
Paperback
$15.89
2 Used from $49.79
3 New from $15.89
|
Quote from Amazon, "The authors of Climate Change: The Facts number some of the most prominent dissenters from Big Climate alarmism...."
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It doesn't take long to learn that the book of "facts" does not present any data to back up personal views written as essays. Once again, reality just
keeps on keepin' on.....
| Quote: |
Perhaps the worst part of all this is the people writing these chapters are obviously just doing it to promote their personal views. Nobody did
research or studying for this book. All that happened is a bunch of people wrote essays about matters they were interested in, and the essays were all
collected together. This is well-demonstrated by Chapter Four which is by William Soon and could be summarized as: My work is good and
proves everybody wrong, but nobody listens to me. |
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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bajacamper
Nomad
Posts: 113
Registered: 2-21-2009
Member Is Offline
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Nothing upsets the members of the church of climatechangeology more than a different opinion. Those cannot be allowed to stand.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Ludicrous. At first glance, it looks like the attached article is about a climate expert who lied about climate change. On reading the
article, this expert worked for the EPA, never showed up for work there, claimed he worked for the CIA, and scammed the government for salaries he
never earned.
Seems he was out of integrity. Does that mean he's NOT an expert in climate change?
Don't understand the point Paul is trying to make here. What does this fraud have to do with climate change? I think the point is there is
fraud in the EPA and climate experts are not to be trusted?
More smoke and mirrors from those toe the Republican party line?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Lee,
The EPA lead research analyst for Climate Change did not show up for work and no one noticed. He lied and said he was a CIA agent who was busy in
Pakistan.
This is evidence that there does not appear to be sufficient oversight of the EPA research analysts team to lead these initiatives, and that in this
case the researcher is clearly not trustworthy. He said hr got a rush from lying. It speaks to credibility of the EPA.
When making an argument, one's ethics and morals and historical behavior should be considered.
It does seem clear here on Baja Nomads, a fair portion don't understand logical argument nor are capable of spotting logical fallacies such as ad
hominem (personal) attacks which you and others base your persuasion.
If you have evidence or experience please jump in and provide it, but let's drop the angry personal attacks that have no basis in logical argument.
[Edited on 8-31-2015 by gnukid]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajacamper | | Nothing upsets the members of the church of climatechangeology more than a different opinion. Those cannot be allowed to stand.
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No kidding!
It is a 'religion' because they are using faith that their 'scientists' predictions made 20 years ago (for this year) are somehow of greater value
than actual VISUAL proof this decade (even right now) compared to visual proof of where the sea level was 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 years ago. The sea is
in the same place.
Then to blur the obvious, they change from a sea level discussion to the depth of fresh water tables in the plains or bring up the name of a political
party, ???
Come on, get real amigos, it doesn't take a scientist to use your own eyes. The sea level is probably slowly changing, millimeters per hundred years,
but not any amount that we can experience any difference in one or even several generations. So, it does not need billions of dollars to be wasted on
something that either doesn't matter or doesn't change a thing. If you want to donate to these prediction makers that's your business, but don't force
your neighbors to pay for your 'religion'.
The head of a family knows best what his/her hard earned money needs to be spent on. Not some bureaucrat, thousand of miles away!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17341
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee |
Ludicrous. At first glance, it looks like the attached article is about a climate expert who lied about climate change. On reading the
article, this expert worked for the EPA, never showed up for work there, claimed he worked for the CIA, and scammed the government for salaries he
never earned.
Seems he was out of integrity. Does that mean he's NOT an expert in climate change?
Don't understand the point Paul is trying to make here. What does this fraud have to do with climate change? I think the point is there is
fraud in the EPA and climate experts are not to be trusted?
More smoke and mirrors from those toe the Republican party line?
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New kid,
No where in the article does it clearly state he was a climate chNge expert. Just says he collected a salary while avoiding work using clever fibs.
So what is worse, you being a trust fund baby, spending money you never earned, or him spending money he never earned? Same thing, eh?
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bajacamper
Nomad
Posts: 113
Registered: 2-21-2009
Member Is Offline
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Can I get an Amen??
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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Goat, is there a reading comprehension problem here? "Respected" NBC News headline starts with "Climate Change Expert". Then the first sentence in the
article begins with "The EPA's highest paid employee and a leading expert on climate change". Most people would interpret this to mean the man is a
climate change expert. They would logically further question his credibility on anything, based on the charges he is guilty of. What part of that
don't you understand?
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee |
Ludicrous. At first glance, it looks like the attached article is about a climate expert who lied about climate change. On reading the
article, this expert worked for the EPA, never showed up for work there, claimed he worked for the CIA, and scammed the government for salaries he
never earned.
Seems he was out of integrity. Does that mean he's NOT an expert in climate change?
Don't understand the point Paul is trying to make here. What does this fraud have to do with climate change? I think the point is there is
fraud in the EPA and climate experts are not to be trusted?
More smoke and mirrors from those toe the Republican party line?
|
New kid,
No where in the article does it clearly state he was a climate chNge expert. Just says he collected a salary while avoiding work using clever fibs.
So what is worse, you being a trust fund baby, spending money you never earned, or him spending money he never earned? Same thing, eh?
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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The one can look at what is happening in real time ... requardless of politics on a Global scale
This is climate change: Alaskan villagers struggle as island is chewed up by the sea
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-arctic-obama-20150830-st...
Tulare County wells failing at rapid clip
http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/local/drought/20...
Call It What It Is: A Global Migration Shift From Climate, Not a Migrant or Refugee Crisis
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/08/28/call-it-what-it...
Climate change in the Fertile Crescent and implications of the recent Syrian drought
Supporting Information
http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2015/02/23/1421533112.DCSu...
One can argue ... but, something is happening ... on a global scale with the human population .. not even talking about other vertebrtes and
invertebrates
That article on Tulare is from April .. they are trucking water into the smaller communities .. as their wells have run dry .. and going in for a new
deep well costs a lot, even if your lucky and can go "rotary"
And that table just keeps going down from Big Ag ... they pull a lot off it to produce food and fiber
Try selling a house and/or property with NO WATER ... 
[Edited on 8-31-2015 by wessongroup]
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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There is no question all of this and more is happening worldwide. The question is how much is man made vs nature related, and what can be done about
it? Is the answer having a stock exchange like program issuing all of us carbon credits to sell to large polluters with Al Gore heading up the
exchange, or simply taxing everyone based on income and creating another government bureaucracy whose administrative expense will eat up over 90
percent of the income and accomplish nothing. As in all controversial subjects, follow the money.
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