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imlost
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:00 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
The development of events have successfully confirmed my conclusions - when the question is not clear, the answers are all over. Was fun to read though.
Sorry, Alm. I thought you were joking when you asked me, "What is your point...? I thought it was plainly obvious. I'll state it in more simple terms: I don't believe it's necessary to communicate on this forum by using personal attacks. The question is proposed in the very first post.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:00 PM
Gettin' on Down


So ........................ the current unemployment level is the continuation of a multi-year downward trend ?

Resulting in a substantial increase in lower-wage jobs benefiting minorities ?

OK.

BUT, it's NOT LOVE !

There was pretty low (near zero ?) Black unemployment in the 19th century prewar South.

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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
Can you do it?

Can you ignore someone who comments negatively about you? Can you get your point across without derogatory comments directed at a specific person who posts here?

These questions can be rhetorical or taken at face value - your choice.


I hear you loud and clear! I don't come onto this forum as much as I used due to increased mean spiritedness. I wish members could keep their arguments to the topic (and off each other) with solid evidence and well thought opinion to back up a differing point of view.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 03:17 PM


If people want a better paying wage, they need to develop skills that are in demand. If you only have skills to work at McDonalds, then more than likely, you're going to get paid minimum wage. If you have three kids by the time you're 19 and no daddies around to help provide support, more than likely, you're going to work for minimum wage. Snowflakes and their entitled mentality...... :no:



Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
So ........................ the current unemployment level is the continuation of a multi-year downward trend ?

Resulting in a substantial increase in lower-wage jobs benefiting minorities ?

OK.

BUT, it's NOT LOVE !

There was pretty low (near zero ?) Black unemployment in the 19th century prewar South.

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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 03:23 PM


Wages are determined by the old standard.....

Supply and demand.

When pork bellies are in short supply, the prices rise.

When heroin is everywhere, prices go down.

And so it goes with wages...….it's like MAGIC!!!




At "least" Mexican heritage.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 03:50 PM


Quote: Originally posted by drzura  
If people want a better paying wage, they need to develop skills that are in demand. If you only have skills to work at McDonalds, then more than likely, you're going to get paid minimum wage. If you have three kids by the time you're 19 and no daddies around to help provide support, more than likely, you're going to work for minimum wage. Snowflakes and their entitled mentality...... :no:



Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
So ........................ the current unemployment level is the continuation of a multi-year downward trend ?

Resulting in a substantial increase in lower-wage jobs benefiting minorities ?

OK.

BUT, it's NOT LOVE !

There was pretty low (near zero ?) Black unemployment in the 19th century prewar South.



But after corporate america shipped all the manufacturing jobs to asia, the only jobs left are service jobs serving the executives of corporate america that seemed to have not exported their own jobs while exporting everyone elses jobs.




Make America Decent Again
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John Harper
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 04:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Wages are determined by the old standard.....

Supply and demand.

When pork bellies are in short supply, the prices rise.

When heroin is everywhere, prices go down.

And so it goes with wages...….it's like MAGIC!!!


Unfortunately, whether people earn enough from work or not, or even have jobs, they all still need food, clean water, health care, education, and shelter. Any good solution to those problems? Or, just let the starving/sick/homeless masses fend for themselves? Wish I had an easy solution to this "human" condition to offer, but I don't. I am always open to a good idea, however. I don't think having people turn back into hunter-gatherers is a way forward.

John
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 04:15 PM


Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Wages are determined by the old standard.....

Supply and demand.

When pork bellies are in short supply, the prices rise.

When heroin is everywhere, prices go down.

And so it goes with wages...….it's like MAGIC!!!


Unfortunately, whether people earn enough from work or not, or even have jobs, they all still need food, clean water, health care, education, and shelter. Any good solution to those problems? Or, just let the starving/sick/homeless masses fend for themselves? Wish I had an easy solution to this "human" condition to offer, but I don't. I am always open to a good idea, however. I don't think having people turn back into hunter-gatherers is a way forward.

John



Yes John, everyone needs food and all manners of sustenance.

Everyone has an opportunity to do just that and more, as much more as their ambitions take them.

The key component is "opportunity".

If some people don't, or won't, take that opportunity to put bread on the table, like you and I did, what to do about them?

Please don't confuse won't/don't, with can't..by reasons of age or disability.

Solutions?......damn few.
I'ts either shovel more money at it, or push for a higher level of taking responsibility for one's slot in life, instead of waiting for someone else to come along and give them what they won't do for themselves.

I tend to fall on the side of more personal responsibilty, over depending on someone else.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 04:24 PM


Careful, John....Dali might be setting you up....and if you don't respond he will call you a liar....he runs a mug's game under the cover of civility.



Don't believe everything you think....
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Alm
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 04:32 PM


Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
Sorry, Alm. I thought you were joking when you asked me, "What is your point...? I thought it was plainly obvious. I'll state it in more simple terms: I don't believe it's necessary to communicate on this forum by using personal attacks. The question is proposed in the very first post.

Nope, no jokes.
Questions in the post #1 were:

"Can you do it?
Can you ignore someone who comments negatively about you?
Can you get your point across without derogatory comments directed at a specific person who posts here?"

Rather philosophical and unclear, isn't it... Was it an invitation for everybody to give an open self-evaluation of his/her ability to communicate regardless of the subject, or was it referring to some insults made personally to you here in the past, or something else. Anyway, I tried to answer. My mistake, probably. Roger and out.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 05:52 PM


I hope your last sentence is in jest.

My car and my house didn't cost taxpayers 20 billion dollars to build (and that's likely a very low estimate).

If border crossing isn't the main way illegal immigrants get to the US, doesn't it make sense to fix the major "hole" before we even consider spending $20bn+ on something that can be easily scaled with a ladder?
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 06:03 PM


Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?


Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
I hope your last sentence is in jest.

My car and my house didn't cost taxpayers 20 billion dollars to build (and that's likely a very low estimate).

If border crossing isn't the main way illegal immigrants get to the US, doesn't it make sense to fix the major "hole" before we even consider spending $20bn+ on something that can be easily scaled with a ladder?
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 06:16 PM


Quote: Originally posted by drzura  
Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?



The problem is not the money, it's that the majority believes that it's not money well spent.

I'm not going to follow you all the way down the road you've gone (regarding hypocrisy), but I will respond simply by saying that we're all guilty of what you're describing. Even the keyboard you're pounding is pollution. Unless we're truly living in harmony with nature, we're contributing to the problem. If you were an affluent/influential person, wouldn't you try to help the problem?

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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 06:19 PM


Happy New Year, everyone. Thank you for trying to keep this conversation somewhat civil. It has been very nice for a change.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 06:27 PM


About the being affluent/influential person part, they are doing exactly the opposite what they preach. For the most part, I think people see that and tune them out because of it. If they truly want to be influential, they should "walk the road they preach", otherwise, they are just contributing to green house gasses by opening their trap. If I see Leonardo DiCaprio riding a bike to work or flying commercial air, then I'll listen to his opinion.



Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
Quote: Originally posted by drzura  
Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?



The problem is not the money, it's that the majority believes that it's not money well spent.

I'm not going to follow you all the way down the road you've gone (regarding hypocrisy), but I will respond simply by saying that we're all guilty of what you're describing. Even the keyboard you're pounding is pollution. Unless we're truly living in harmony with nature, we're contributing to the problem. If you were an affluent/influential person, wouldn't you try to help the problem?

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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 06:45 PM


Quote: Originally posted by imlost  
Quote: Originally posted by drzura  
Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?



The problem is not the money, it's that the majority believes that it's not money well spent.



Let's do some math.....on New Years eve.

Politifact says...

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan...

Scroll down to "our ruling"

"The White House claimed that "current immigration policy imposes as much as $300 billion annually in net fiscal costs on U.S. taxpayers."

"A study from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine analyzed the fiscal impact of immigration under different scenarios. Under some assumptions, the fiscal burden was $279 billion, but $43 billion in other scenarios"

Costs associated with illegal aliens is somewhere between $279 billion a year to $43 billion a year.
Wide spread no doubt.
For grins....let's say only 1/3rd of the $279 is a valid figure.

One third of $279 bllion a year in costs of all manners of illegal aliens is $92 billion a year

Add in the "untangible" costs of the added crime and dangerous drugs to the mix. Costs unknown.....what is a human life worth?

I am wondering at what price point (including the crime and drugs) does it become "worth it" to construct a wall?

A wall that has been proven to work in the San Diego and Yuma sectors.

No judgments one way or the other...just some numbers.

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by DaliDali]




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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 07:34 PM
When You Wish Upon a Wall - Que Sera Sera


BUT, barring some Magical Mysterious Metamorphosis ...................... It will be beyond 2020. IF at ALL.

There's only downside for the New and improved(?) Dem House giving it up to Dirtbag Don's Imperial Con.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 07:58 PM


If that's the case and the wall will not be built, or at least a decent portion of it, hopefully the government stays shut down. ;D

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
BUT, barring some Magical Mysterious Metamorphosis ...................... It will be beyond 2020. IF at ALL.

There's only downside for the New and improved(?) Dem House giving it up to Dirtbag Don's Imperial Con.
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[*] posted on 12-31-2018 at 08:25 PM


Speaking of cherry picked sources, a study was conducted and it was determined that illegal aliens costs states approximately $89 billion a year and the federal government $46 billion. These costs include resources used for education, health care, law enforcement and welfare. I think $25 billion to have a wall built would save all of us tax payers a pretty penny while providing a good rate on return on invested capital (ROIC). That should make everyone happy, even you. ;D

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/map-illegal-immigration-c...


Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Dig deeper Jay...….

Never laid claim to the WH as the gospel....

Or did you totally gloss over what the

" study from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine analyzed the fiscal impact of immigration under different scenarios. Under some assumptions, the fiscal burden was $279 billion, but $43 billion in other scenarios"

Scientists?....imagine that......Engineers?.....imagine that....Medicine....imagine that.

You DO take the word of scientists don't you?
Now they fudge and spew lies?



I did take a closer look. That report is above your pay grade and it's 500 pages long. What you did was copy something off a right-wing web site that cherry picked off that report.

I could do the same thing thing but I at least link the source.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/immigrants-arent-takin...
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[*] posted on 1-1-2019 at 02:15 PM


Oh BTW, that 500 page study from the "National Academies," that DaliDali, never actually linked the actual study, just their website, and he took off some defunct right-wing web site, that cherry picked, the information to make immigrants look bad, but didn't tell the whole story.

This is what DaliDali linked:

"A study from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine analyzed the fiscal impact of immigration under different scenarios. Under some assumptions, the fiscal burden was $279 billion, but $43 billion in other scenarios"

If DaliDali, actually took the time to read the actual 500 pages, or at least read their summary page, he would have saw their report was very positive towards immigrant, and in fact said, " Immigration has an overall positive impact on long-run economic growth in the U.S. "

Yes, there are some negatives immigrants bring, but overall immigration is a net gain to America, just like it always has been.

This is why it's very important to ask the anti-immigration crowd, to provide links, so you can look at the whole study yourself.

Another important thing to look at since Trump, has been President, previous to Trump, the anti-immigrant crowd told you how they love immigrants, and it's only the illegal immigrants, they just didn't like. I myself, never brought that, but now, that's out the window, it's now all out war with immigrants in general and Trump, wants to cut way back on immigrants to the US period.
_________________________
Summary of the actual report from the, " National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine."

Immigration's Long-Term Impacts on Overall Wages and Employment of Native-Born U.S. Workers Very Small, Although Low-Skilled Workers May Be Affected, New Report Finds; Impacts on Economic Growth Positive, While Effects on Government Budgets Mixed

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?Rec...







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