BajaNomad - Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

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Cypress - 3-16-2012 at 01:31 PM

ramuma53! I called your goons thugs. Thugs of a feather stick together. Did I call you a thug?

Puckdrop - 3-16-2012 at 02:04 PM

We can make this a 1,000 replies thread. would this be a record? anybody? Dennis? Cypress? David? BN elites? This is like a really bad soap opera, it goes on and on and on and on

If this was a movie the theater would be empty by now. I know I'm still here, but I'm running out of popcorn real soon :lol:

Burbs - 3-16-2012 at 02:52 PM

Rafael Munoz Martinez A.K.A. GOD.

If you had property with correct legal documents you would have recovered the last three homes in dispute. I believe the law would have sided with you if you had correct and legal title. You should respect the law and stop trying to twist situations around to favor you. The rest of the property, including the hotel will follow in favor of Olivia the same manner because they are all similar to the other leases.. I would have no problem ceding you the property if you had correct or legal documents to support your claims. You do not and have not supplied correct docs so you have lost in a Mexican court of law. You have exhausted the amparo's and the reviews of amparo's. You lost and being a sore looser you put your misfits(employees) in harms way and now they are arrested in jail. I feel very lucky neither Olivia, the tourists or I were not shot. Hopefully the judicial system will punish them for their crimes. If the employees were working under your orders, then you should be here in person defending those employees who believed in you. What is your problem for not returning to this property or to B.C.S.? Stop yelling from across the pond. It has been three years since we have not had the honor of your presence at Buenaventura. You're not such a important person that time will not allow you to come and offer condolences to your employees. Personally, I hope these employees tell the story of Rafael Munoz Martinez to the officials. I'm sure you are terrified that they will testify against you and this is why you are creating such a fuss. The lies you print are testimony to your desperate character.

Lobsterman - 3-16-2012 at 04:27 PM

Hey Goat Jerk,
I promise I will be one of the first paying guests at Rafael's Hotel once he reopens it. Can't wait until he cleans up the Mulege area. It will be my first time back to Mexico since 2007.

Rafael,
If baja wants people like me with $ in their pocket to return, we have to feel safe from not only the criminals but the law enforcement officers as well. I feel sorry for the hardworking people of baja since the tourist stopped coming but your government is responsible for that and shot the golden goose. Most of the negative loud mouths posting on this thread do not have two nickels to rub together and contribute little to baja's economy compared to the tourist that stopped coming. They got suckered by Oliva and Nark for a free beer and a parrot on their shoulder.

Keep up the good work.
HH

Cypress - 3-16-2012 at 04:46 PM

Lobsterman, You call that run-down wreck a hotel?

Attempted to spend some time there way back when, but after checking it out, changed my mind. Didn't like the atmosphere, sorta stuffy. Got some bad vibes from the folks that were supposed to be managing it. They've got plenty of vacant rooms. You'd probably feel right at home.

mcpuitar - 3-16-2012 at 04:59 PM

Have been following this thread with interest/concern. Don't know much about Mexican real estate law, titles, leases, and all that, and find it hard to make negative assessments of people I don't know. But just wanted to say (or maybe "reiterate" is a better word since I notice others have also vouched) that, having stopped in at Playa Buenaventura plenty of times--whenever heading south or north along Bahía Concepción--to quench my thirst with ice cold cerveza and fill my gut with good grub, Mark and Olivia are fine people and their cantina has to be one of the best in BCS for counting on having a good time, interesting conversation, meeting some genuine old timers, and for a very generous pour of any of the best reposados. I hope they can hold fast, because without 'em there I can't imagine it being the same place.

Yikes!!!

toneart - 3-16-2012 at 06:25 PM

:wow:

This is very impressive! :biggrin:

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53

...Also, I am accessing the political leaders from all the political parties and they are hearing what I am saying; they do not say much in response, but we will feel their reaction and it is very possible we will see a strong reaction against the Estate Government.

Also we put those charges to the United Nations consideration, they will take their time but a resolution will be coming soon.

"So do not worry, this thread will show you the real Mexico and how problems are solved here. We are not hiding it, we are showing you reality and how crooks try but fail". -Ramuma53

:wow:

Hard to tell if this is an impression, a concession, or a confession. :?:

....but I believe you!

Burbs - 3-17-2012 at 07:25 AM

Elivestig8r,
Your missing a word.
Aqui tengo mis papeles falso.

Cypress - 3-17-2012 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Burbs
Elivestig8r,
Your missing a word. [/quote

That's not all he's missing. :biggrin:

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-17-2012 at 05:01 PM

STICK WITH YOUR TOUCHY FEELY STORIES!
QUIT TRYING TO COMPETE!
YOU DO NOT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES!

latina - 3-18-2012 at 08:32 AM

Elinvestig8r obviously likes to keep stirring the pot. ¿Habla español? Read the policiaca section of the Sudcaliforniano newspaper this morning. The "employees" of ramuna53 were found guilty and have been sentenced to prison, based on the presentation by Olivia of the legal documents regarding Playa Buenaventura to the authorities. Why on earth anyone would post documents on the internet is beyond common sense, and to do it at the request of someone who has nothing better to do than make cartoons on his/her computer to hurt people he doesn't even know is just plain stupid. This story should be legally finished, if not for a bully who apparently will stop at nothing to get what he wants and a handful of bored groupies who enjoy playing with other peoples lives from the security of their computers.

Burbs - 3-18-2012 at 08:44 AM

Here is a copy....

Policiaca
Formal prisión a la administradora del Hotel
El Sudcaliforniano
17 de marzo de 2012

Porfirio Sarabia P.

La Paz, Baja California Sur.- Edgar Iram Gallegos Cárdenas, Juez Mixto de Primera Instancia del Partido Judicial de Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, dictó ayer auto de formal prisión contra María Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño , de 51 años de edad, administradora del Hotel Buenaventura, Mulegé, Baja California Sur y Mario Alán Pérez Rivera, jefe de seguridad de dicho Hotel.

De acuerdo a la causa penal número 30/2012 que se instruye en dicho juzgado, ambos son presuntos responsables por el delito de despojo agravado en agravio de María Olivia Higuera Aguilar, delito grave y no alcanzan fianza.

Los inculpados fueron detenidos el día 9 de febrero de 2012 en dicho Hotel, por elementos de la Policía Ministerial del Estado destacamentados en Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, en compañía del Agente del Ministerio Público Investigador.

Posteriormente, el día 12 de febrero de 2012 fueron trasladados a esta ciudad y arraigados por el citado delito.

Al rendir sus respectivas declaraciones preparatorias el 14 del mes en curso, se apegaron al artículo 20 Constitucional. Se prevé que la defensa a cargo del licenciado Eduardo G. Barraza, recurrió a la protección de la justicia federal a través del amparo, para poder liberar a sus defendidos.

surfer jim - 3-18-2012 at 09:04 AM

Finally... somebody is GUILTY. :rolleyes:

But wait....a little mordida can correct this "problem". :tumble:

[Edited on 3-18-2012 by surfer jim]

BajaNomad - 3-18-2012 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Burbs
Here is a copy....

Formal prisión a la administradora del Hotel
El Sudcaliforniano
17 de marzo de 2012

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2470413.htm

Interesting

bajaguy - 3-18-2012 at 09:19 AM

If Mr Rafael Munoz Martinez is such a great attorney/lawyer, and "his employees" were doing everything legally, why isn't he there in person defending "his employees"??????

Woooosh - 3-18-2012 at 10:33 AM

Add let's not forget yet a "new" owner has come into the picture...

The only way to win in Baja real estate is not to play.

awkward silence

mtgoat666 - 3-18-2012 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
I am accessing the political leaders from all the political parties and they are hearing what I am saying; they do not say much in response,...

"they do not say much in response" may say volumes,... just saying,...

Woooosh - 3-18-2012 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
I am accessing the political leaders from all the political parties and they are hearing what I am saying; they do not say much in response,...

"they do not say much in response" may say volumes,... just saying,...

Not really Goat. I have never gotten much feedback from authorities in Mexico. They don't even tell you if you win or lose a case because they don't have a formal system to notify people. If there was more transparency in gov't down here it would defuse a lot of situations. imho, part of the problem is most all gov't jobs are politically appointed and they don't want to mistakenly put themselves out of work by supporting the wrong side. Especially in an election season.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-18-2012 at 12:18 PM

Latina, I never hide in front of my computer screen to write what I write in here. My identity is on Baja Nomad and has been for some time. People in here can attest to that. Is your identity in here on Baja Nomad, or are you just "the anonymous Latina” typing in front of your computer screen? My backing of Rafael Muñoz is only to the documents he provided online to establish ownership of the disputed property. Mark and Olivia know my identity, my e-mail address and where I go in Baja. I have never accused them of anything so do not get sanctimonious with me about anything. I have not committed any crimes, nor have I hurt anyone! There are three claims to that property and it is not over until the fat lady sings as they say. I am both university educated and street educated and can see this is not over yet. Once the Playa Buenaventura issue is resolved, I will be supporting Whoooosh with stupid gifs to help him on the below project! Y, por supuesto que si hablo, escribo y leo Español!

chuckie - 3-19-2012 at 06:26 AM

Taking no sides on this issue, admitting to not understanding much of what has been written here, I make an observation. I drove by Bueanventura yesterday. The day was cloudy and gloomy as was the view from the highway headed South. The sight of those once beautiful homes, now empty and broken, and the empty hotel, was sad indeed. Having known it when it was alive, and seeing it now as it is...We are all the losers here...No matter what is decided....

surfer jim - 3-19-2012 at 09:35 AM

Well said....I still remember the days when you could drive by beaches like this....with NOBODY there. If you liked what you saw just set up camp for a day or two....and then leave. No need to "own" the land and build houses to keep others out. The good old days....

J.P. - 3-19-2012 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
Well said....I still remember the days when you could drive by beaches like this....with NOBODY there. If you liked what you saw just set up camp for a day or two....and then leave. No need to "own" the land and build houses to keep others out. The good old days....

If you find a place like that today someone is there with a bucket charging admisson :lol:

Woooosh - 3-19-2012 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

I remember when there was "Spring Break" in Rosarito too. I remember when all the clubs were open and the restaurants were full. Young people were partying like crazy and it was the #1 Spring Break destination in Mexico. Expats used to gripe about all the kids and bad traffic and how they avoided the area during Spring Break like the plague. Now it looks like the plague really did hit. "Spring Break" tours don't even book Rosarito trips, many clubs are closed and even some favorite ex-pat restaurants like "Las Mananitas" have been shuttered for good (they used to host free English classes there for expats). Over 800 expats moved from Rosarito for good the past few years. You don't have to go all the way to Playa Buenaventura to see blight, it is everywhere. And it won't recover in our lifetime, in fact- it is getting worse.

mtgoat666 - 3-19-2012 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

rosarito practiced poor public planning, the city grew with crappy construction, poor layout, bad infrastructure. it is now ugly town with raw sewage ruined beaches. it could have been a pretty seaside town, now looks like crap, very sad...

the crime wave that overtook mexico in last few years was a national problem. the NY Times and LA Times carried articles in last few days about extortion and kidnapping in Mexico. the picture is bleak. mexico needs to really kick itself in the balls and take care of its problems. unfortunately, the smart and rich are fleeing the country,... situation is sad... while crime wave scared tourists away from cities, some of the rural areas are still OK

but look on the bright side,.. the obama daughter is in mexico (oaxaca) right now on spring break, so there is at least one plane load of spring breakers this year!

wessongroup - 3-19-2012 at 12:41 PM

Gee, wonder who's paying for the security ...

J.P. - 3-19-2012 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Gee, wonder who's paying for the security ...

The same people that paid to move the White House to the Ranch two or three times a year :lol:

wessongroup - 3-19-2012 at 02:04 PM

Ain't it the truth ... :biggrin:

Woooosh - 3-19-2012 at 02:14 PM

You got it right Goat. It's still a shame for all of us. Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg--- and then they ate it too.

BajaNomad - 3-19-2012 at 07:50 PM

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2012/03/19/caen-2-mas-por-despo...

bajario - 3-19-2012 at 08:28 PM

Help us out here. I can't understand it and Google translation is harder to understand.

Woooosh - 3-20-2012 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajario
Help us out here. I can't understand it and Google translation is harder to understand.

Two more of Raphael's men are in jail. Total count is now four.

latina - 3-20-2012 at 10:33 AM

Una pregunta: Is the legal doctrine of RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR adopted in Mexican Law, as it is in the U.S.A? In other words, in Mexico, can an employer be held liable for the actions of his employees, performed while involved in activity related to their job?

Woooosh - 3-20-2012 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
Una pregunta: Is the legal doctrine of RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR adopted in Mexican Law, as it is in the U.S.A? In other words, in Mexico, can an employer be held liable for the actions of his employees, performed while involved in activity related to their job?

If you are asking if Raphael knew what his employees were doing or if he was directing it from a distance, the answer would be no. It was me who told him.

[Edited on 3-20-2012 by Woooosh]

David K - 3-20-2012 at 04:06 PM

Wonderful news...

Just wondering are you guys spelling Rafael as 'Raphael' as an insult, in the same way Bush-1 mispronounced Saddam (an Arab insult) during the Gulf War?

toneart - 3-20-2012 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Wonderful news...

Just wondering are you guys spelling Rafael as 'Raphael' as an insult, in the same way Bush-1 mispronounced Saddam (an Arab insult) during the Gulf War?

Doubt it.

The pronunciation doesn't change in the two spellings.

BajaDanD - 3-20-2012 at 04:32 PM

so what does all this mean

elgatoloco - 3-20-2012 at 05:01 PM

1001 :saint:

David K - 3-21-2012 at 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Doubt it.

The pronunciation doesn't change in the two spellings.

The misspelling being the insult... we can opnly read, and not hear Nomad, afterall.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-21-2012 at 05:21 AM

Ok Rafael, what is going on? I supported you regarding the documents you displayed on your web site indicating the property in dispute was yours! Is it in fact true you do not own the property? Does the property in fact belong to Olivia? You now have employees convicted and in jail for using firearms to take away someone else’s property by force. Does the property belong to you or not? I realize this forum is not a court of law but since I supported you regarding your documents, I would like an explanation, as I am sure others who supported you also would like one. I am not ashamed I supported you because it appeared you owned the property, but if you in fact do not own it I need to apologize to the rightful owner for my support of your documents and delete all of the gifs I made in support of them. Rafael, I would appreciate if you would come back to explain your side of this.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-21-2012 at 05:55 AM

fool me once... shame on... shame on you... if fooled, you can't get fooled again

mtgoat666 - 3-21-2012 at 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Ok Rafael, what is going on? I supported you regarding the documents you displayed on your web site indicating the property in dispute was yours! Is it in fact true you do not own the property? Does the property in fact belong to Olivia? You now have employees convicted and in jail for using firearms to take away someone else’s property by force. Does the property belong to you or not? I realize this forum is not a court of law but since I supported you regarding your documents, I would like an explanation, as I am sure others who supported you also would like one. I am not ashamed I supported you because it appeared you owned the property, but if you in fact do not own it I need to apologize to the rightful owner for my support of your documents and delete all of the gifs I made in support of them. Rafael, I would appreciate if you would come back to explain your side of this.

elvis8:
your buddy will not post here again until he has crafted a new pack of lies to post,... may take a while for him to post new lies, as he first needs to review old lies and make sure new lies don't contradict old lies.

Cypress - 3-21-2012 at 10:12 AM

ELINVESTIG8R, Guess those, what was the term, oh yea, "Chicken Coop Groupers" were right. :yes:

Are chicken coop groupers the same as crab trap crabs? :?:

About that taser? :biggrin:

David K - 3-21-2012 at 10:16 AM

Quote:

Now you are on the right track David, we missed you while you flirted with The Dark Side. The Force will be with you, always!

mcfez - 3-21-2012 at 02:44 PM

Yes....trust all documents that shows up on the BN

Many hard believers here that took sides based on third party information and non proven documents. Seems like OT

ramuma53 - 3-22-2012 at 10:10 AM

ELINVESTIG8R
‘Ok Rafael, what is going on? I supported you regarding the documents you displayed on your web site indicating the property in dispute was yours!’ :?:

At this point, nobody has proved the property is not mine, it is not legal or it is not in my possession, not in court or here.
Olivia through her organized crime connections, managed to use the Estate District attorney to, without any court order, illegally detain all my employees, including my attorney and that is a very cyanic one as you should know.
In absolutely no way, the property was taken from me or given to Olivia in a legal way.
In absolutely no way, the property’s possession was taken from me or given to Olivia in a legal way.

‘You now have employees convicted and in jail for using firearms to take away someone else’s property by force.’ :?:

I have no employees convicted of any crime; my employees were detained by the Estate police without any arrest warrant, without any authority order and only on Olivias orders.
My employees are not in jail, they were put in what in Mexico is known as preventive custody, because the Estate Police was not able to prove they committed any crime and THEY ASKED FOR 30 DAYS DETENTION TO BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT THEY COMMITTED A CRIME; in other words, they were sequestered for 30 days to investigate them and try to find a cause for their detention; after the 30 days they finally charged them with aggravated robbery and aggravated illegal property occupation.

The first charges on the grounds that Olivia during the night using binoculars, saw somebody entering a house, she claim but do not prove is hers and she supposed it was my manager and my security chief, WHO MAY BE STEALING SOMETHING; without proving in any way that she owned the hotel or in fact anything, without proving my employees entered one of her properties or without proving something that belong to her was missing.

The second charges were filled on the grounds that the Agrarian Tribunal gave her 3 houses that supposedly belong to 3 Americans who made a contract with her, who she evicted from 3 of her properties IN EJIDO LAND.

Here I want you all, to note that the Agrarian Judge denied to the Federal Judge having any legal cause against me or my property and that he recognized my title validity also you should note that no ruling was issued that affect my property or me.

Olivia is trying to execute a ruling she has against 3 Americans in Ejido Land, in my property that is no ejido land. :!:

After the 30 days they took to try to find a crime, they sent them to the Criminal judge who promptly dismissed the first charge as groundless.

On the second charge, he detained them until they prove that they were in my hotel legally and that is an easy one for me, because I have title to the property, they are my employees and they hold power of attorney to my company and myself; why were this fact not proved during the 30 days, because those documents were offered by my attorney, who were detained with my employees and released without charges, but they argued that since he was part of the accused group, he was not able to represent the detained and just did not accept the legal proof he offered; they also had in their possession the powers of attorney and certified property title, but they just confiscated those documents and put them as legal proof that my employees were there in a sealed package; IN OTHER WORDS, THEY CONFISCATED THE PROOF THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT AS PROOF THAT THEY WERE GUILTY.

You at this time, have more proof that I own the property than the criminal judge, but that is only a time delay maneuver, because I just sent another set of certified documents for the Criminal judge and to the Federal Judge to who I asked for protection against illegal acts by the Estate authorities.

THAT IS WHY MY EMPLOYEES ARE STILL IN CUSTODY, BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ACTS BY THE ESTATE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, NOT BECAUSE THEY COMMITTED ANY CRIME.

Concerning the firearms, the Estate police tried to make Federal charges against my employees for having firearms, on the grounds that they had no legal permit (They had confiscated also the permits) but the Federal Police and the Army had legal copies of those permits and denied making any charges or detention order for that cause.

I made federal charges against the Estate Governor, the Estate District Attorney, the North Zone District Attorney and the district attorney for the crime of organized crime, authority abuse, vehicle robbery, property robbery and else; those charges are already filled in Mexico city.

You do not need to apologize, just wait and see; this is a shame on the Estate authorities who committed several crimes on a known criminal defense and not only defense but attack.

I expect that in 20 days, my employees will be released without charges as soon as the legal facts and certified documents are put in place and the Federal judge issue an order to stop any illegal act to the Estate authorities; we were offered a deal to release all of my employees without charges if I just stop releasing the story to the national news; just as if nothing had happened and my employees who are detained and me refused the deal. Of course we were threaten about charging us with every crime they can fabricate, but we will see if they can do that against a Federal judge order to stop any illegal act against me and my employees.

At this point, absolutely no Federal authorities have participated on the power abuse or illegal acts; in fact they are prosecuting those acts at this very moment; they are telling me that this is a vengeance from organized crime for not cooperating with them on the drug unloading on my property; Olivia and the Estate District attorney are just the tools. :!:

I know that the bets are high now, they threw all the marbles to the table, but I confide that Mexico is a law state and I will prevail over the Estate help provided to organized crime. In fact at this point, I have a lot of grounds to think this will be just another try by Olivia and organized crime to take a hold on my land to keep using it for their purposes, but that it is only a local problem.

They told me they acted on the belief that we had not legal permits for our firearms and planning to use that fact as justification for their illegal invasion to my property; they would just send my people to the Federal police and just take hold on my property as a crime scene, but since they lacked that crucial fact, they were left without a legal cause and they are in deep problems with the federal police for power abuse, illegal entry, robbery and illegal detention because they had no legal cause to enter my property; of course they are trying to fabricate them with of course Olivia’s help, but so far they are not been able to create a believable one.

My property is there, it is not legally confiscated, but in fact it is, and we will enter it again only with the army as protection and we are working on that so they can not repeat the abuse of power.

Now time is on my side; in June the G20 will meet in Cabos, they do not need this kind of publicity on a host Governor being accused of organized crime ties and protection.

The presidential campaign is about to start and organized crime is a main issue and this will be used by both political parties; just remember that the South Baja Governor is from PAN political party the presidential party; while the Presidential PAN Candidate is promising life in permission to any public official who is found with organized crime ties.

We are in a 2 week political silence period, but in one week the presidential campaigns start and they will be free to use this issue against the PAN political party.

ramuma53 - 3-22-2012 at 10:42 AM

Nomads

This is a shame on the Estate authorities and also on Mexico as a whole, because we cannot keep acting this way in the organized crime support while the Mexican President, declare that he will not allow the police to act as the organized crime's strong arm.

We are just watching the opposite in South Baja, an Estate Government in open support for the organized crime, committing illegal entries, detaining workers and illegally confiscating private property.

Today the Mexican President declared to the National Press that he will not allow the police to act as the organized crime strong arm, I believe he is trying to do it but the Estate governments are very compromised with organized crime as is the Case in South Baja.

Just remember that South Baja was a peaceful estate until this governor took office; promptly gun battles started in Cabos and now this; they try to hide it, but hiding is not the solution.

You are Baja guests and need a safe place to spend your golden years; so far, they made a mistake putting this Governor in power; they were very afraid of PRD because they were acting very badly and also supporting organized crime; PRI was not offering any better deals and elected the PAN governor as a compromise and to not allow any of the other parties to come to power, but the solution was worse than the problem expected.

This cannot hold and will not hold, just wait and see.

Woooosh - 3-22-2012 at 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Craig and David,

Would you two be willing to speak to the DA investigators about your interaction and involvement with Raphael in person to assist in understanding what has transpired in these recent events? This could help.

If you mean me (woooosh), Yes. I contacted Raphael by e-mail about this matter and he responded in kind. Let me know when they need me to testify that it was me who informed him of this incident taking place and that he said he was unaware of it.

JoeJustJoe - 3-22-2012 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Woooosh is it true that you're in some type of business arrangement with Raphael?

I heard that you said you were in partnership with Raphael in some type of deal, and you said it here on this forum? I haven't gone back and verified it yet, because this thread is too long, and so I'll just ask you instead of digging through these threads?

Woooosh If you are are involved in any type of business matters with Raphael or if Raphael is advising you on your own Baja real estate legal matter.

The question is can we expect you Woooosh to be objective on the M&O v Raphael hotel real estate legal battle?

Woooosh - 3-22-2012 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

You'll need to read the whole thread. Sometimes due diligence requires one to read.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-22-2012 at 01:33 PM

Kid feel free to give the District Attorney Investigators my e-mail address and ask them to send me their names and a telephone number so I can call them from my office. I will let them know all I have done in this matter if you think this could help. It will be my pleasure.

Quote:

[Edited on 3-23-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

Woooosh - 3-22-2012 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Kid feel free to give the District Attorney Investigators my e-mail address and ask them to send me their names and a telephone number so I can call them from my office. I will let them know all I have done in this matter if you think this could help. I will be my pleasure.

Quote:

I guess that was for us. I wasn't sure. Why do anonymous people post others people's real names?

I haven't been responding to every event in this lately because it all still seems tit-for-tat at this point and even a new lady is making her claim for the land. (I thought everyone had accepted earlier that Olivia owned nothing though- only a FMZ concession that did not include the Hotel). So I'm waiting for the dust to settle. If I had to pick one of the half-dozen players in this saga that has the most extensive knowledge of Mexican land laws, it would most certainly be Raphael who is both a civil engineer and attorney. jmo

Burbs - 3-23-2012 at 07:57 AM

Quote:

I haven't been responding to every event in this lately because it all still seems tit-for-tat at this point and even a new lady is making her claim for the land. (I thought everyone had accepted earlier that Olivia owned nothing though- only a FMZ concession that did not include the Hotel). So I'm waiting for the dust to settle. If I had to pick one of the half-dozen players in this saga that has the most extensive knowledge of Mexican land laws, it would most certainly be Raphael who is both a civil engineer and attorney. jmo

Wooosh have you ever asked Ramuma to show you his documents that he IS a lawyer or that he IS a certified engineer? I don't think he is as I have not been able to find any proof that he is a official laywer or a civil engineer. Sure wouldn't want Wooosh to get conned by Munoz!

Cypress - 3-23-2012 at 09:23 AM

I'm thinking Wooosh isn't the only one that Munoz has conned. :light:

Woooosh - 3-23-2012 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
I'm thinking Wooosh isn't the only one that Munoz has conned. :light:

Your crazy wife looking back into our past lives again Cypress? Munoz is the real deal. Just because he is working against your friends in Playa Buenaventura doesn't mean he hasn't done excellent legal work for me in Rosarito or helped dozens of other Nomads with free advice on this very board. He has helped many Nomads and we have thanked him for it. For some reason the situation in PB isn't one where he supports the Nomads who are part of it. Of all the nomads he has helped, this one situation is different and conflicting. Maybe that says more about the Nomads down there that it does about Raphael. Maybe. I still don't know yet, I was waiting for the dust to settle. But thanks for the personal insult so I could chime back in. cluck, cluck, cluck.

norte - 3-23-2012 at 10:02 AM

How quickly people have forgotten how these current residents (not necessarily owners) threw out the expat home builders. good people you say?

Cypress - 3-23-2012 at 10:31 AM

The expat home builders didn't pay their rent/lease payments to the people that own the property. They paid the wrong folks! They were defrauded out of their money. Isn't fraud illegal in Baja? :?:

XPBRes - 3-23-2012 at 11:53 AM

I wish it was that easy to understand. We had a 30 year lease with Mike & Olivia, who had a lease with the Ejido. Mike leaves and Olivia claims ignorance. She finds out that they have not met their obligations with the Ejido and then tries to extort more money from the renters. While in negotiations with Olivia, about a new lease, Munoz shows up with info and docs to say he is the private property owner. We paid our rent and were current. Yes we stopped paying Olivia and started paying Munoz.

So do we blame Mike for not paying the Ejido? Do we blame Olivia for not knowing what Mike was doing and her trying to make us pay for their mistakes? Do we blame Munoz for misleading us to not pay Olivia and to pay him? Do we hold Munoz responsible for losing our court cases with Agrarian Court, that he promised he would represent us and win.

There is so much more I could share but my feeling is that so many of you have made your minds up. Blame is easy, facts help but can be manipulated, but the truth is hard to find.

We have been waiting 10 years to know the truth. I think we may never know the TRUTH and the experience has been long and hard. As far as I can see that beach is not a BEACH of GOOD VENTURE.

[Edited on 3-23-2012 by XPBRes]

surfer jim - 3-23-2012 at 12:47 PM

To help clarify things.....

R53 is an "attorney".....who hired another "attorney" to go to Playa B. to represent....and then 2nd "attorney" get arrested , thrown in jail and now he needs an "attorney" to get him out.

Got it. :smug:

Woooosh - 3-23-2012 at 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The expat home builders didn't pay their rent/lease payments to the people that own the property. They paid the wrong folks! They were defrauded out of their money. Isn't fraud illegal in Baja? :?:

No it isn't actually in reality or the Mexicans selling Trump Baja would not have been able to legally defraud US investors of $30 Million. There is no right or wrong in Mexico when the rubber meets the road- just lot's of blurry and gray. If you look for clear cut good or bad and right and wrong, you won't find it or even that Mexicans value it. It's a huge contrast to NOB, but it is what it is. They can and do deny that is true, but the proof is in their actions. jmho

Cypress - 3-23-2012 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh There is no right or wrong in Mexico jmho

Do you really believe that?

rts551 - 3-23-2012 at 02:21 PM

well said XPBR. screwed by the Heros and screwed by the villains. Don't think I would want to business with any of them after this.

Cypress - 3-23-2012 at 02:34 PM

XPBRes, You paid Munoz. Heck, for all the good it was worth you could have sent the check to me. I'll accept all payments for any property anywhere and you you'll get a receipt. :biggrin:

cpress

captkw - 3-23-2012 at 02:35 PM

I'm in line too !! :lol:

K&T

Burbs - 3-23-2012 at 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
I wish it was that easy to understand. We had a 30 year lease with Mike & Olivia, who had a lease with the Ejido. Mike leaves and Olivia claims ignorance. She finds out that they have not met their obligations with the Ejido and then tries to extort more money from the renters. While in negotiations with Olivia, about a new lease, Munoz shows up with info and docs to say he is the private property owner. We paid our rent and were current. Yes we stopped paying Olivia and started paying Munoz.

So do we blame Mike for not paying the Ejido? Do we blame Olivia for not knowing what Mike was doing and her trying to make us pay for their mistakes? Do we blame Munoz for misleading us to not pay Olivia and to pay him? Do we hold Munoz responsible for losing our court cases with Agrarian Court, that he promised he would represent us and win.

There is so much more I could share but my feeling is that so many of you have made your minds up. Blame is easy, facts help but can be manipulated, but the truth is hard to find.

We have been waiting 10 years to know the truth. I think we may never know the TRUTH and the experience has been long and hard. As far as I can see that beach is not a BEACH of GOOD VENTURE.

[Edited on 3-23-2012 by XPBRes]

Ted..you should have stayed and fought like we did. Like a man...like an American should. You bailed, and I'm left here. You're belly aching like a seven year old or like Munoz(offense intended). IF you want you're house back come back here and live in it. At least six months a year. I live here year around. I promise no hard feelings if you do. Cut the poor me routine and slandering us, please. I'm an American and Mexican citizen. Don't really care about your old house and never wanted it. We had to fight the Con man Munoz, and now that we win, you want to complain. Munoz caused this mess with you and the others. Your house is half finished or completed. If you want it come and occupy...do it now. Ted you never did anything except stand on the sidelines...now do something or S. T. F. U.
-I should'nt be the only one to have to listen to the Jake Brakes!

XPBRes - 3-23-2012 at 06:48 PM

Mark
how is sharing facts as we know them acting like a child? Why would we be that naive to start all over again with nothing resolved. You say come back, Cheryle would love too, me not so much. You say no hard feelings, why would there be any we did nothing to you or Olivia? You say slander, you are starting to sound like Munoz!

Complaints: you stayed, my belly aching, jake brakes, we left you there all alone and you have to live there all year.
WOW who is sounding like a child!

I posted on this board to convey OUR point of view, like a true American can.
If you don't like OUR truth get off this board or prove that you are really the "WINNERS".

Do you really think I believe you have the rights to anything, you may have sued us and won in a court, so what. Still don't see any proof that this is over.

norte - 3-23-2012 at 07:09 PM

WOW. and this is the person you all are sticking up for.A real Nomad hero. Stick it to em Burbs. and then play the poor me card. No thanks. this is why I stay away from Baja real estate

Quote:

Originally posted by Burbs

Quote:

Woooosh - 3-23-2012 at 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh There is no right or wrong in Mexico jmho

Do you really believe that?

I didn't until I moved here to Mexico eight years ago. It doesn't smack you in the face all at once, it creeps up on you as you understand what is really happening around you as the locals do. Right and wrong things def happen here, but many people (not all) don't judge them in black or white- fuzzy gray at best. It doesn't bother me, it's just an observation. It's OK to cheat to get ahead and get caught, so long as you live to fight another day. No blood, no foul. Just a cultural, not racist- observation.

No shame either

Cypress - 3-23-2012 at 07:31 PM

OK!

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:01 PM

This is the official letter sent by the Agrarian Magistrate to the Federal Judge, telling him that he has no legal cause against me and that he has no intention to take my property from me.

As you see, what Olivia say is a lie.

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:11 PM

Now, do you want to know who is Mark Jerome Burbey?????

You want to know if Olivia know who is the owner????

do you want to know who is the owner????

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:24 PM

Who is the owner?
Just look at the very public signs

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:27 PM

Do you want to know if my title is public knowledge????

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:33 PM

Olivia and Nark Advocates
May any of you please ask Olivia and Nark if they have anything like these documents

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:41 PM

Who want to know if Olivia is convicted criminal???

who are you supporting??????

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-23-2012 at 11:49 PM

Now, you really want to know who you advocates are supporting????

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-24-2012 at 12:06 AM

Now, do you want to know who I am???? :?:

Working for Baja Estate Congress

Here the Mexican Army say that I am a certified honest person and ask authority to help me without questions in my official and confidential tasks.

:light:

A Baja Senate candidtae, 2000 National Elections

As ABC Baja Estate Nespaper director

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ramuma53]

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 04:53 AM

Based on the general locating latitude and longitude Fulano figured out regarding Rafael’s property title Number 432949 at N26° 39', W111° 50' it is a property at Playa Buenaventura and not in the Mexico State of Veracruz as alleged.

Per Fulano, “The property description further describes the property as being in the Municipality of Mulegé bounded by the ocean to the North, the ejido La Purisima to the South and East, and a property named El Frijol to the West. This also clearly describes San Buenaventura.”

Copy and paste the coordinates into Google earth and see where it takes you. I am in Rafael’s corner regarding his documents.

Can anyone dispute these facts with other documents? Put them out here for evaluation. It appears that Rafael posted his because he does not fear they will be debunked. Can anyone debunk what he has posted?

THIS IS THE DOCUMENT

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 05:24 AM

CYPRESS YOU ARE OFFICIALLY TASERED...AGAIN!

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 05:29 AM

ouch!

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 05:42 AM

Fulano also posted this regarding the below document: Rafael Muñoz posted copies of a lot of documents on BN tonight to prove that he was the owner of the San Buenaventura property.

This page is probably the most important. It is a letter from a judge in the Agrarian Court to a judge in a Federal Court. The letter is dated April 21, 2010 and the Agrarian Court judge is telling the Federal Court judge that he should dismiss Olivia's case for possession of the home owned by Ted and Cheryle Clinite because she does not have any legal interest in it.

The relevant part in Spanish is: Ahora bien, de la revision a los autos del juicio agrario del cual emana el acto reclamado, puede observarse que los terrenos del amparista, no se encuentran incluidos en el ejido La Purisima, puesto que dicho predio cuenta con titulo de propiedad amparado con el numero 432949expedido por la Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria.

However, upon review of the trial transcript of the Agrarian Court, one can observe that the lands claimed by the amparista (Olivia), are not a part of ejido La Purisima, since this property has a separate property title identified by number 432949, issued by the Secretary of Agrarian Reform.

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

Burbs - 3-24-2012 at 07:59 AM

Munoz,

You can fool a few sometimes. But not us or the authorities.
Take your papers if you have any new ones and go to court. Make your best case. Then if you don't win, slander the authorities in the newspapers and other publications. Oh yes, call Olivia and Mark heads of the gulf cartel and the pacific cartel. If that does not work convince some on the Nomad. If this has negative results hire some help with promises of riches and wealth to harass us with guns and blocking the entrance to all.

Sideline it all from a state far away in case crimes are committed so you can claim innocence and ignorance.
If this does not produce positive results, then pack your backpack and come personally to B.C.S.
We will all love to see you. Your fan club awaits you.

Can't really speak for your so called employee's, but I bet they will appreciate a visit from the boss.

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 08:27 AM

Munoz has been challenged.

JoeJustJoe - 3-24-2012 at 09:49 AM

I have no comment on what Munoz posted, but when it comes to Fulano and his Photoshopping skills, and the wild things he makes up often out of thin air.

I wouldn't believe Fulano if he said the sky is blue and he had a picture of a blue sky. The insane nut just doesn't have any credibility with me, and I know many Nomad members feel the same as I do.

Now it may be the sky is really blue, but since Fulano spins, tells half-truths, and flat out lies about other "Nomad" members. How can you even trust this dubious source from a hate forum he runs like a cult leader, and even has cult followers. ( It's a tiny cult of maybe 5 or 6 guys)

I'm sorry but Fulano is not a credible source, and anything the nut puts out shouldn't be taken seriously, but I think most Nomad members already know that.

Fulano just is not a credible source and you should have always have a real reliable credible source to turn to instead of Fulano and his anti-Mexico agenda.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 09:52 AM

Is Rafael’s documentary evidence falsified, if so, how? Can someone debunk them? To determine who is not telling the truth, outside governmental investigative agencies from Mexico City will need to intervene to conduct an unbiased investigation to determine the truth. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that someone is not telling the truth. Based on the preponderance of documentary evidence provided by Rafael on this forum and until proven to be fabricated I must stand with him regarding his documentation. If Rafael is later deemed not to have ownership of property at Playa Buenaventura I will humbly ask for forgiveness from the rightful owner publicly in this forum.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 10:05 AM

Fulano also says “One of the other documents that Rafael posted is a "Certificate of no liens." This document is issued by the local county registrar for Mulege County in Santa Rosalia. This document shows that Rafael's ownership of the property has been a matter of public record in Mulege since at least 1999.”

“The relevant part of the document says:

Que bajo a la partida 259 del tomo 67 de la seccion primera de esta dependencia aparece inscrito titulo de propiedad No. 51829, de fecha 17 de Enero de 1984 y registrado 23 de febrero de 1999, relativo a un lote de terreno denominado la tinaja de Armenta ubicado en el municipio de Mulege estado de BCS, contando con una superficie total de 378.7912 hectares. Que la Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria expide al C. Rafael Muñoz Martínez.

Igualmente se hace constar que en la Partida de referencia no obran anotaciones marginales de que dicho inmueble este gravado o hipotecado por lo que se encuentra libre de gravamen.

That under heading 259 of volume 67 of the first section of this county is inscribed deed No. 51829, dated January 17, 1984 and recorded February 23, 1999, on a plot of land called la tinaja de Armenta located in the municipality of Mulege, Baja California Sur, with a total area of 378.7912 hectares, that the Secretary of Agrarian Reform issued to C. Rafael Muñoz Martinez.

May it also be noted that in the reference system there are no marginal annotations that show said property is encumbered or mortgaged and this property is free of liens.”

Burbs - 3-24-2012 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Fulano also posted this regarding the below document: Rafael Muñoz posted copies of a lot of documents on BN tonight to prove that he was the owner of the San Buenaventura property.

This page is probably the most important. It is a letter from a judge in the Agrarian Court to a judge in a Federal Court. The letter is dated April 21, 2010 and the Agrarian Court judge is telling the Federal Court judge that he should dismiss Olivia's case for possession of the home owned by Ted and Cheryle Clinite because she does not have any legal interest in it.

The relevant part in Spanish is: Ahora bien, de la revision a los autos del juicio agrario del cual emana el acto reclamado, puede observarse que los terrenos del amparista, no se encuentran incluidos en el ejido La Purisima, puesto que dicho predio cuenta con titulo de propiedad amparado con el numero 432949expedido por la Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria.

However, upon review of the trial transcript of the Agrarian Court, one can observe that the lands claimed by the amparista (Olivia), are not a part of ejido La Purisima, since this property has a separate property title identified by number 432949, issued by the Secretary of Agrarian Reform.

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

Munoz lost this LIE of amparo against the order of the court in favor of Olivia. This is when in Nov. of 2011 the houses were awarded and the eviction happened.
R. Munoz why don't you show thre final papers on this amparo and also show the review of your lost amparo? Include the other structures that were included.
Let's not live in the past, let's live in the present!

Burbs - 3-24-2012 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Based on the general locating latitude and longitude Fulano figured out regarding Rafael’s property title Number 432949 at N26° 39', W111° 50' it is a property at Playa Buenaventura and not in the Mexico State of Veracruz as alleged.

Per Fulano, “The property description further describes the property as being in the Municipality of Mulegé bounded by the ocean to the North, the ejido La Purisima to the South and East, and a property named El Frijol to the West. This also clearly describes San Buenaventura.”

Copy and paste the coordinates into Google earth and see where it takes you. I am in Rafael’s corner regarding his documents.

Can anyone dispute these facts with other documents? Put them out here for evaluation. It appears that Rafael posted his because he does not fear they will be debunked. Can anyone debunk what he has posted?

THIS IS THE DOCUMENT

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

This document of title is a fake.
*Munoz show that your other title #51829 for the same or equivelant property. Display(#51829) for everyone and explain how two titles are better than one title!
*Look at the signatures how dark they are compared to the rest of the copy. A sign that they have been scanned and placed on the copy.

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 10:40 AM

Munoz, It's show and tell time!! :lol:

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 10:50 AM

Since I have no knowledge about Mexico property matters I will defer to Fulano. He says, "By the way, everybody has been asking Mark Burbey to show the document that proves they "own" Playa Buenaventura. The letter from the Agraian judge to the Federal judge, which Muñoz posted on BajaNomads, has a description of that document.

"mismo que celebró a través de su comisariado ejidal, con MARIA OLIVIA HIGUERA AGUILAR y MICHAEL J. GEORGE un contrato de asociación con participation mediante el cual el ejido concesionó a favor de los asociados la playa Buenaventura."

This says that the La Purisima ejido, on the one hand, and both Maria Olivia Higuera Aguilar and her then husband, Michael J. George, on the other hand, created a concession with participation where Olivia and Michael George operate the Buenaventura beach concession and pay the ejido a share of the revenues.

This is problematic in many ways. First of all, as already stated above, the ejido did not own the property, so the concession should be null and void. Secondly, a concession does not transfer title to the real estate. So even if the ejido did own the land at Buenaventura, title to the houses Olvia says she "owns" should revert to the ejido, not Olivia. Third, the "concession" was granted to both Olivia and Mike George. I understand they later divorced and Mike George died. But, there is no paper trial showing how Olivia ended up with Mike George's interest in the concession. Mexico is not a community property country. Unless there is some documentation showing Mike George transferred his interest in the "concession" back to Olivia, she only owns an undivided interest in the "concession." The heirs of Mike George own the other interest in it.

I'll bet Rafael has as copy of Olivia's concession with the ejido. It would have been introduced as evidence in several of the many court hearings."

Oddjob - 3-24-2012 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Munoz, It's show and tell time!! :lol:

Cypress, what is your stake in this? You keep putting in your 2 cent comments as if you actually have some real knowledge about the situation. Did you form your opinion like other M&O supporters by stopping by and having a beer and a burger? ***************************

[Edited on 3-25-2012 by BajaNomad]

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-24-2012 at 01:27 PM

Fulano conducted an investigation and found the following:

"Well, well, well. If you want something done right, you just have to do it yourself. Fulano went into the records of the Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria and found an official letter, dated September 10, 2009, that says Rafael Munoz's title to Playa Buenaventura is false, and orders the public records to reflect that his title is null and void. The official reason stated is that Rafael never completed the procedures necessary to finalize the issuance of a proper title. Furthermore, the government cannot find any evidence that he even paid for it. The letter also acknowledges that there is a federal investigation of Muñoz by the Mexican attorney general's office for the crimes of forgery and using false documents.

http://www.sra.gob.mx/sraweb/datastore/transparencia/resoluc...

"En tal razon, y al considerarse que la enajenacion del predio que nos ocupa no ha sido consumada en todos sus terminos toda vez que el titulo de propiedad que obra en al expediente adminstrativo numero 142524 ha sido desconocido resulta infundado...."

For this reason, and in consideration that the alienation of the property under consideration has not been completely consummated in all respects, the title to the property under consideration in administrative file number 142524 is unrecognized and unfounded..."

The letter does not say the land belongs to ejido La Purisima. It seems to indicate it is still national land, as there is mention that Muñoz made an inquiry long ago of how much it would cost to buy the land out of its National land status.

By the way, the letter also says there is another property with the same number, 432949, that was issued to Bertha Lopez Castillo August 31, 1993 for a property called "Beristain M-D L-14" located in Ahuazotepec, Puebla. Then they did some more digging at the Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria and found another page with the same number, 432949, but the page was blank. So, reading between the lines, whatever happened, it was done with the help of inside people at the Secretaria de la Reforma Agraria. They probably did not suspect that anyone would notice two properties with the same number."

[Edited on 3-24-2012 by ELINVESTIG8R]

wessongroup - 3-24-2012 at 01:38 PM

Thanks, it all helps ...

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 01:43 PM

Oddjob, My two centavos? Just my thoughts on the issue. You got a problem with free speech? Step up to the plate. Your two bits are just as good a s mine. Go for it.

toneart - 3-24-2012 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oddjob

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Munoz, It's show and tell time!! :lol:

None of us have a stake in this except the Principals, who are involved. It serves the Nomads as entertainment. Nothing more. It is akin to reading a novel of intrigue.

The tragedy is that real people with real lives (those who do have a stake in this) are undoubtedly suffering a lot of stress. As in any such situation, right or wrong, the Principals involved seem to believe that they are right.

There are varying degrees of legal entitlement (or not). The same for the morality (or not) in the principals' stands. Shades of gray, at best. Nothing is settled because it is still ongoing.

My question is: Why do the Principals care what we Nomads think? This is not a court of law. It would seem to me that anything they post here could be used by one another as incriminating evidence. I don't see how it serves any of them beneficially. Public Opinion is irrelevant!

Having said that, they are all airing their own dirty laundry for us to read. If you are entertained, share the popcorn. If you are not, don't read it! :smug:

[Edited on 3-25-2012 by BajaNomad]

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 02:24 PM

Amen.

Oddjob - 3-24-2012 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

If those that are involved in this choose to air it out here that's their business, but there is a difference between reading it and posting ****** comments about it (Cypress) by those that are not part of it.

[Edited on 3-25-2012 by BajaNomad]

XPBRes - 3-24-2012 at 03:34 PM

Entertaining you say, I agree this is a fascinating story. You on this board have as much or more information than we ever had. I would hope all of you could see the dilemma a few Americans had. We fell in love with a beautiful location. It was to be a new beginning to our future dreams.

Mike was a great salesman and all of us believed in him and his good work ethic. We had 10 years without a thought that it was going to be anything but a great place to live out our lives. It was said that Mike is dead, I don't think so, I have heard that he has a place in Guaymas-San Carlos.

As much as I don't think Mark has been wrong about some of his statements: should have stayed, stuck it out and fought back. When we started Mike had a small house, restaurant and a few palapas. The renters made that beach without Mark. We stuck it out for 15 years, he hasn't been there that long yet and comes across as a squatter and nothing more.

Now I ask you nomads knowing all you do could you have made a decision about this that would have given you a good outcome. If we had stayed and fought we would have Munoz beating down our door. We stop paying Olivia and she sues us for breaking a lease. It took us over a year to make decision; maybe it was a wrong one if you believe Mark.

From what I just read on these last pages it shows that neither one of them had a right to make a lease or allow us to build. I am just as confused and sad as I was 10 years ago.

My only goal here was to share with nomads that it’s not that easy to figure this stuff out. Most of us make choices based on experience and not emotion. I think that in this case we fell in love with a location and trusted people that may not have had our best interest.

Mark can continue to bash me I will never stop sharing my thoughts and knowledge about this.

Cypress - 3-24-2012 at 03:42 PM

Oddjob, :lol:

surfer jim - 3-24-2012 at 04:20 PM

:yes:

Pompano - 3-24-2012 at 05:16 PM

Does this thread qualify for Godwin's Law" yet??"

Mike Godwin, formulator of the "law"

"Godwin's law" is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage.

It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving N-zis or Hitler approaches.

In other words, Godwin observed that, "given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the N-zis."

Now...I could say that I distinctly remember that somewhere in this messy morass somebody mentioning Hitler or the N-zis...

...but I could be wrong. :rolleyes:

..and I'll be damned if I am going to wade thru all this STUFF.

Has there been any such comparison?...and who is Hilter here?

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