BajaNomad

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

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woody with a view - 3-27-2014 at 04:59 PM

1 yes
2 not at the camp but in the area
3 yes, only satellite phones

Ateo - 3-27-2014 at 05:16 PM

What Woody said above.

There are definitely Nomads 5 hours from this area. I'm not one of them currently.

No cell service there. Sat phones only. You can rent them.

BooJumMan - 3-27-2014 at 05:22 PM

Just to reiterate, I was there in December, I took that same road in, and drove south to P. Blanco. I did quite a bit of driving, hiking, etc over the course of 2 weeks in the area, and did not see Gary's 4runner. (I was aware of him missing, and had a silver 4runner just like his so I was on the look-out).

I did not pass to the north labeled Fish Camp on DavidK's map. However, I am unaware of any good surf spots in that exact area. If the word was the 4runner being up in that area, I believe the roads are pretty rough to the N and direct South.

bajaguy - 3-27-2014 at 05:31 PM

I am within 5 hours of Catavina.

Stopped at the hotel at Catavina today on our way north, glanced at delegation office on the highway. The 4 Runner is there and looks to be in good shape.

Mexitron - 3-27-2014 at 05:43 PM

Actually I have gotten occasional cell phone service out at P. San Jose---the signals apparently travel over water from El Rosario/San Quintin. Francisco, one of the fisherman out there, has a cell phone. However, if the phone was inland/in a canyon it would likely be blocked.

pappy - 3-28-2014 at 12:07 PM

confirm waht mexitron said. surprised the cells even worked there, but they can in certain spots.

Ateo - 3-28-2014 at 01:55 PM

If the family is prepping for a search, I wouldn't count on cell service. There may be areas where you get a signal, but if you want solid, reliable connections, in that area, you need a sat phone.

Taco de Baja - 3-28-2014 at 04:14 PM

I’ve driven that road almost every year since 1995, so yes, I’m familiar with it.

There are not many spots that are "sandy" where one would get stuck as described happened to the 4Runner, unless he turned up or down one of the sandy washes for camping for the night; and even those are few and far between. The one I'm thinking of is about 2/3 of the way to the coast (3-4 hours off the pavement, plus an hour south of El Rosario). I’ve camped here before, and if you go far enough up the wash you can't be seen from the dirt road. If he was stuck closer to Cataviña in the boulder fields it is likely the vehicle would have been found a lot sooner. There are numerous surf/fishing spots up and down the coast from San Jose, but again if the vehicle was at the coast it would have been seen a lot sooner, lots of traffic and no real out of the way places where a vehicle would remain hidden. My money would be in a "remote" inland area.

Hand held radios may be the best way for limited communication for any searchers in the area.

tiotomasbcs - 3-28-2014 at 05:53 PM

Amigos, I have been out there and I remember only an hour to hour n half ride out there-coast. My trouble was at the rivermouth crossing. If he was off the main road into San Jose then it was well travelled by fishermen, etc. Easy to get stuck! Was it a rainy, wet oct/Nov?? I came thru hwy 1 during early October. Send in the Nomads! Tio

woody with a view - 3-28-2014 at 06:13 PM

the estuary isn't an issue. too many folks pass by daily. the only issue is past the green school/church/ejido building when there is a fork in the road. we almost got stuck in an offshoot road once, where there was a corral.... i guess if you were trying to be lost from the main drag there are spots, but who does that when the coast is SO CLOSE?

i smell a rat......

woody with a view - 3-29-2014 at 08:24 AM

by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?

vgabndo - 3-29-2014 at 08:30 AM

I'm within 5-7 hours, don't know the road, have a TelCel, a quad and a 4x4.

Skipjack Joe - 3-29-2014 at 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?


It could be. It's really unfair to the family. They should complete their report as fast as possible, or at least keep the family abreast of what they're doing and what their plans are. Most likely they're looking for Gary now in the vicinity of the vehicle and we won't get any further information until they find him. That could take a very long time. If I was dealing with heat exhaustion I would climb into the coolness of a cave or beneath some rocks, places that are more difficult to search.

On the other hand, the whole procedure may be stalled waiting for some approval from Mexico City. Stalled for bureaucratic reasons. That would be sad.

Actually the only reason we went from being abducted to being stranded is that they found loose sand beneath the tires. Yet since they moved the vehicle there is no way of confirming that. You would think that anyone pondering leaving his vehicle in a dash for safety would first do everything he could to get the car out of the situation. There should be signs of heavy digging around the vehicle with dead cactus and branches and rocks jammed around the tires. So far nothing like that was reported or confirmed.

[Edited on 3-29-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

DENNIS - 3-29-2014 at 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
So far nothing like that was reported or confirmed.



Do I not recall someone saying the tires were flat or low? Perhaps he aired down in an effort to get out.
We'll probably never know what really happened.

micah202 - 3-29-2014 at 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

We'll probably never know what really happened.


.

...........don't..give..up..hope!!

bajaguy - 3-29-2014 at 11:50 AM

Maybe, just maybe.....the authorities (and possibly the family) don't want a bunch of amateur sleuths screwing up the area before the authorities conduct a search or gather evidence.

Why don't we all give it a rest until the family decides what they want to do.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?

EnsenadaDr - 3-29-2014 at 12:09 PM

The worst thing in the world is for the "experts" to criticize people who are interested in the outcome of this situation and want to help. I don't see how reflecting on this situation can hurt anyone, after all the family (through Blanca, bless her heart) brought it here to begin with. Questioning a situation is not a sign of ignorance, rather it can be a way for all of us to learn especially the SPOT technology that I was unaware of. I think we all now agree that this is an indispensable part of our travels out of big cities in Mexico and possibly everywhere when we are away from our families. To condescend and insult others because they ask questions is the most ignorant action of all. I for one welcome the information and explanations that many of you have brought here for safety purposes. We have many bright people here on this board and I am amazed each day at the amount of knowledge they share willingly to enlighten others. The ignorant ones are the people who insult others because someone decides to think outside the box and doesn't have a police or detective badge posted on their chest.
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?


It could be. It's really unfair to the family. They should complete their report as fast as possible, or at least keep the family abreast of what they're doing and what their plans are. Most likely they're looking for Gary now in the vicinity of the vehicle and we won't get any further information until they find him. That could take a very long time. If I was dealing with heat exhaustion I would climb into the coolness of a cave or beneath some rocks, places that are more difficult to search.

On the other hand, the whole procedure may be stalled waiting for some approval from Mexico City. Stalled for bureaucratic reasons. That would be sad.

Actually the only reason we went from being abducted to being stranded is that they found loose sand beneath the tires. Yet since they moved the vehicle there is no way of confirming that. You would think that anyone pondering leaving his vehicle in a dash for safety would first do everything he could to get the car out of the situation. There should be signs of heavy digging around the vehicle with dead cactus and branches and rocks jammed around the tires. So far nothing like that was reported or confirmed.

[Edited on 3-29-2014 by Skipjack Joe]


[Edited on 3-29-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

EnsenadaDr - 3-29-2014 at 12:15 PM

Dennis, if a car sits around for 6 months or so do the tires lose air automatically?
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
So far nothing like that was reported or confirmed.



Do I not recall someone saying the tires were flat or low? Perhaps he aired down in an effort to get out.
We'll probably never know what really happened.

DianaT - 3-29-2014 at 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Maybe, just maybe.....the authorities (and possibly the family) don't want a bunch of amateur sleuths screwing up the area before the authorities conduct a search or gather evidence.

Why don't we all give it a rest until the family decides what they want to do.


Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?


Good advice. :yes::yes:

tripledigitken - 3-29-2014 at 12:47 PM

+1

Ateo - 3-29-2014 at 12:48 PM

+2

DENNIS - 3-29-2014 at 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, if a car sits around for 6 months or so do the tires lose air automatically


In Mexico, nothing is automatic.

Anyway...I suppose it would depend on the tire.

Why all the useless speculation?

EnsenadaDr - 3-29-2014 at 12:56 PM

Because you mentioned that the tires being almost flat signified something. I was thinking that maybe it was just because the car sat around so long.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, if a car sits around for 6 months or so do the tires lose air automatically


In Mexico, nothing is automatic.

Anyway...I suppose it would depend on the tire.

Why all the useless speculation?

woody with a view - 3-30-2014 at 08:36 AM

-3

remember the shooting in El Rosario many years ago? it happened 200 feet from the cop shop and the bad guys were never caught. a single road heading north and south and they couldn't figure out where the bad guys went? "investigators" in Baja don't inspire confidence.....

DENNIS - 3-30-2014 at 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
-3

remember the shooting in El Rosario many years ago? it happened 200 feet from the cop shop and the bad guys were never caught. a single road heading north and south and they couldn't figure out where the bad guys went? "investigators" in Baja don't inspire confidence.....



To say the least.
Mentioned before....I was driving to the ice cream store a mile from my house when two guys pulled up next to me and blew out the back window of my car with a high power pistol, missing my head by app. a foot. Then they chased me at high speed into Cantu where they backed off.
I immediately drove to the local police station and made the "report" of the incident and the police asked me what they looked like as well as where they might be. I described the car told them the shooters were on the road to Maneadero. They laughed and went back into the station, uninterested.

So much for police involvement when real guns are involved.



.

[Edited on 3-30-2014 by DENNIS]

EnsenadaDr - 3-30-2014 at 09:04 AM

Yes and as you know I strongly disagree with waiting till the police are good and ready. I think the perceived dangers of Baja are dissuading the family as well from mounting a massive search and the suggestions of sitting back and "'letting the police do their work" are utterly ridiculous after all this time. I don't think the police would have any objection for people to start looking for Gary if approached. The crime scene proper could be avoided if the police truly feel there is a crime scene.

Skipjack Joe - 3-30-2014 at 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Maybe, just maybe.....the authorities (and possibly the family) don't want a bunch of amateur sleuths screwing up the area before the authorities conduct a search or gather evidence.

Why don't we all give it a rest until the family decides what they want to do.


Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
by "rat" i mean something isn't kosher here.... why won't SOMEONE say where the car was found?


I don't see speculating on events as doing anything to hurt the investigation.

All that's offered here are ideas and suggestions of what to look for and what to not overlook or where to look. These hopefully are of some benefit to the family. And not some form of voyeurism as implied.

P.S. I am of the opinion that the police should be given more time and no search should be undertaken until either the family asks for it or the police are stumped.

[Edited on 3-30-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

monoloco - 3-30-2014 at 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Because you mentioned that the tires being almost flat signified something. I was thinking that maybe it was just because the car sat around so long.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, if a car sits around for 6 months or so do the tires lose air automatically


In Mexico, nothing is automatic.

Anyway...I suppose it would depend on the tire.

Why all the useless speculation?
Maybe Gary aired done the tires in an attempt to get unstuck.

DENNIS - 3-30-2014 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco

Maybe Gary aired done the tires in an attempt to get unstuck.



That too was mentioned above:


"Do I not recall someone saying the tires were flat or low? Perhaps he aired down in an effort to get out."

monoloco - 3-30-2014 at 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco

Maybe Gary aired done the tires in an attempt to get unstuck.



That too was mentioned above:


"Do I not recall someone saying the tires were flat or low? Perhaps he aired down in an effort to get out."
Sorry, I haven't really been following this thread much because it's just mostly idle speculation.

DENNIS - 3-30-2014 at 01:00 PM

:lol: I was just going to do that, but you beat me to it. Thanks.

SoCalPattonCrew - 4-3-2014 at 10:11 PM

Dearest Nomads,
The family has received information that is leading us back into a more positive direction.
Authorities are reporting this location where Gary's vehicle was found: (although distanced from the dirt road off the main highway, it is at least not as far as we'd feared originally)

- On Main highway, about 12 Km north of Catavina is a dirt road turn-off
- Turn right at mile marker 189Km; Sign says " San Jose "
- Follow approximately 38 km to a forked road, head right again, and travel another approx 10 Km
- Off this road In this area is an ARROYO, a washout: where the vehicle was found stuck, but with inflated tires
- The location was enough "off-road" that it was not visible from the road (which is why the cowboy spotted it only on horseback)

Pattons hope to be organizing a trip down after Easter, probably now in early May, but still to be confirmed because we need Gary's vehicle released to us for this trip, especially because we prefer the car to be drivable, and our guys have to be present to claim it.

Many of you have offered your help in an organized search, and it is truly appreciated. If you wish to volunteer and want to be on our contact list, send us your information via U2U please, and we would be happy to notify you directly when our dates, plans, are confirmed. Please include in your U2U if you have special equipment, vehicle(s), and communications (especially a satellite phone, have any experience in an effort like this, because we need to know our options for communicating back to the States, i.e., helping our guys check in with our family while there. Best news is that we have a good rendezvous point (watering hole) at Hotel Catavina, as the car sighting appears to be less than 2.5 hours from there.

More to come, our amigos... thank you all for your kind wishes and hopeful thoughts through our ongoing saga....it's extremely important to us that anyone volunteering is not endangering themselves and help all participating to be of utmost in safety, so please, help us know and commit to that going into this.

P.S. If any of you are traveling into that area, please have flyers and the closeup picture of Gary on pg. 19 on nomad site, bearing in mind, that Gary may be sporting a serious darker, long beard and longer hair.

Stickers - 4-3-2014 at 11:07 PM

It would be helpful to figure out a GPS fix for the location of his vehicle.

Maybe DK could plot it on a map or aero chart.


.

David K - 4-4-2014 at 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
It would be helpful to figure out a GPS fix for the location of his vehicle.

Maybe DK could plot it on a map or aero chart.


.


This is going by the Patton Family Post which has this data:

1)- On Main highway, about 12 Km north of Catavina is a dirt road turn-off

- Turn right at mile marker 189Km; Sign says " San Jose "

2)- Follow approximately 38 km to a forked road, head right again, ...

3) ...and travel another approx 10 Km

- Off this road In this area is an ARROYO, a washout: where the vehicle was found stuck, but with inflated tires

- The location was enough "off-road" that it was not visible from the road (which is why the cowboy spotted it only on horseback)

The overall area:




Going north 12.9 km (per map) from Cataviña to the Faro San José road, west...




Per map, the fork is 36.1 km. from Hwy. 1...

Heading right at that fork takes you away from the Faro San José road and heads you towards Puerto Canoas (near Punta Canoas), 26.4+ km. from the fork...



Approx. 10 km. on this fork is near Arroyo Mujeres...




Easy walking distance to the large fishing camp of Canoas.

On the AAA map it is the road with 13.9 miles along it...

Ateo - 4-4-2014 at 08:13 AM

Yep, that about pinpoints the search area. Anyone driven that road that turns off at KM38 towards Canoas lately? Seems TW did recently?

absinvestor - 4-4-2014 at 08:15 AM

David K never ceases to amaze me- both his willingness to help and his ability to produce whatever maps one needs!!

David K - 4-4-2014 at 09:09 AM

Just want to help in any way that I can...

I studied Google Earth and Bing satellite images and I just don't see any major arroyo crossings ~10 km. from the fork, on the Canoas road. Just a couple of minor ones... so, either the 10 km. figure is way too little or he was on a less used track and not the graded road?

PaulW - 4-4-2014 at 09:21 AM

I was interested in the area. My guess the stuck vehicle was less than 5 km from the coast by various tracks. I found the road off hwy 1 and followed to an area where it becomes less visible. So I marked various roads in the vicinity. I also made a mark with coords to allow one to get started on GE near the coast. I suspect that place it where arroyo Mujeres hits the coast? To find Cativina zoom GE and look for Santa Ynez.





Search GE and see what you come up with
Paul

TMW - 4-4-2014 at 09:24 AM

The San Jose turn off is at KM168/169. I was on that road on my last trip but not the road to Punta Canoas. As I recall from a previous trip last year on the Canoas rd there is a rancho in the area of concern and that's probably where the cowboy was from.

David K - 4-4-2014 at 09:28 AM

I am thinking if he was that close to the coast, then he would know which way to walk to the fish camp for help?

From the fork (by Santa Maria copper mine) to the coast (Canoas) is 26+ km. The driving instructions were to go approx. 10 km. from the fork.

I am glad you are working on this too, Paul!

TMW - 4-4-2014 at 10:00 AM

Here is a GE map with the closest location of where the car could have been. It appears to be the only arroyo 10km or 6 miles from the main rd.

woody with a view - 4-4-2014 at 10:00 AM

I guess it's possible he got lost at night but anyone with 1/2 a brain would realize the sun rises in the east and could find his way from there.

something smells.....

TMW - 4-4-2014 at 10:12 AM

I would guess he may have pulled in there to sleep and got stuck trying to leave or someone stole his car and put it there. He was probably in the Canoas area or the San Jose area, since he is a surfer. Showing his picrure in those areas may lead to something. There are also many homes along the coast in the area. San Jose at the coast is a little community. I have not been to Punta Canoas or Puerto Canoas in years.

DENNIS - 4-4-2014 at 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
I would guess he may have pulled in there to sleep and got stuck trying to leave or someone stole his car and put it there.


I think it was said his valuables were still in the car. If the car had been stolen, one would think everything of value would be gone.
??????????????????????????????????????????????

TMW - 4-4-2014 at 10:28 AM

You're right I forgot about that.

willardguy - 4-4-2014 at 10:45 AM

okay one more time, if he had been out to the coast, it was loong time after he went missing. the same week the family reported him missing we were between punta canoas and santo domingo. huge rains had left the area between punta canoas down to punta maria a giant mud bog with standing water so deep many of the beach areas were totally inaccessible. the guys at the fish camp (who had just dug out a new 4wd chevy truck that was buried up to the door handles) told us the road out to catavina was impassible.
gary's car was only dusty, he hadn't been out there, in that time frame.

EnsenadaDr - 4-4-2014 at 10:53 AM

You guys are doing a tremendous job. By golly, we'll find Gary I'm sure of it with the concerted effort.

Taco de Baja - 4-4-2014 at 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
I was interested in the area. My guess the stuck vehicle was less than 5 km from the coast by various tracks. I found the road off hwy 1 and followed to an area where it becomes less visible. So I marked various roads in the vicinity. I also made a mark with coords to allow one to get started on GE near the coast. I suspect that place it where arroyo Mujeres hits the coast? To find Cativina zoom GE and look for Santa Ynez.


Search GE and see what you come up with
Paul


I’m thinking the "turn to the right" and head on the road to Canoas may be wrong.

If you continue straight from this junction, you will come to the green cement building that is used as a meeting hall/church/salon in approx. ~4.3 miles, turn right here (head south) here and go 1.7 miles and there is a nice sandy wash I have camped in. As I have mentioned before there are not a lot of nice camping areas on the drive to the coast, and if you see one you take it, especially if it is getting dark. This spot is well hidden if you go up or down far enough.

This spot is around 14 driving miles to the coast at San Jose, and around 2 hours driving time off the pavement.

If you do the math, this spot also happens to be 6 miles (or 10 KM) from when they said to “turn right.” Just a thought. I may be wrong but I wanted to add my 2 pesos.

The coordinates are 29 26'42.9" 114 53' 14.6" If anyone is interested in posting a GE image.

BajaLuna - 4-4-2014 at 10:59 AM

You're awesome, DavidK!!

DENNIS - 4-4-2014 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
You're awesome, DavidK!!



Yeah...he hasn't been working very much lately and has put on a few kilos. :lol::lol:

jes kiddin' wicha, Big D.

David K - 4-4-2014 at 11:02 AM

One option is he traveled from Baja Jardines (San Quintin) on Hwy. 1 to the Faro San Jose road then headed west... Rather than he was driving the coast road from Santa Catarina to Santa Rosalillita. It was a 2WD 4Runner, correct? If he never arrived at the coastal fishing camps, then that explains why nobody saw him.

Good job with the GE map TW!

Mexitron - 4-4-2014 at 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
I was interested in the area. My guess the stuck vehicle was less than 5 km from the coast by various tracks. I found the road off hwy 1 and followed to an area where it becomes less visible. So I marked various roads in the vicinity. I also made a mark with coords to allow one to get started on GE near the coast. I suspect that place it where arroyo Mujeres hits the coast? To find Cativina zoom GE and look for Santa Ynez.


Search GE and see what you come up with
Paul


I’m thinking the "turn to the right" and head on the road to Canoas may be wrong.

If you continue straight from this junction, you will come to the green cement building that is used as a meeting hall/church/salon in approx. ~4.3 miles, turn right here (head south) here and go 1.7 miles and there is a nice sandy wash I have camped in. As I have mentioned before there are not a lot of nice camping areas on the drive to the coast, and if you see one you take it, especially if it is getting dark. This spot is well hidden if you go up or down far enough.

This spot is around 14 driving miles to the coast at San Jose, and around 2 hours driving time off the pavement.

If you do the math, this spot also happens to be 6 miles (or 10 KM) from when they said to “turn right.” Just a thought. I may be wrong but I wanted to add my 2 pesos.

The coordinates are 29 26'42.9" 114 53' 14.6" If anyone is interested in posting a GE image.


But if he had gone on the Canoas fork he would have been in the Lazaro drainage which, at least downstream, is a huge sandy wash.

David K - 4-4-2014 at 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
I was interested in the area. My guess the stuck vehicle was less than 5 km from the coast by various tracks. I found the road off hwy 1 and followed to an area where it becomes less visible. So I marked various roads in the vicinity. I also made a mark with coords to allow one to get started on GE near the coast. I suspect that place it where arroyo Mujeres hits the coast? To find Cativina zoom GE and look for Santa Ynez.


Search GE and see what you come up with
Paul


I’m thinking the "turn to the right" and head on the road to Canoas may be wrong.

If you continue straight from this junction, you will come to the green cement building that is used as a meeting hall/church/salon in approx. ~4.3 miles, turn right here (head south) here and go 1.7 miles and there is a nice sandy wash I have camped in. As I have mentioned before there are not a lot of nice camping areas on the drive to the coast, and if you see one you take it, especially if it is getting dark. This spot is well hidden if you go up or down far enough.

This spot is around 14 driving miles to the coast at San Jose, and around 2 hours driving time off the pavement.

If you do the math, this spot also happens to be 6 miles (or 10 KM) from when they said to “turn right.” Just a thought. I may be wrong but I wanted to add my 2 pesos.

The coordinates are 29 26'42.9" 114 53' 14.6" If anyone is interested in posting a GE image.


Taco de Baja's GPS on GE and Bing:

GE high to low:







Even closer with Bing:

EnsenadaDr - 4-4-2014 at 11:52 AM

If we had the Nomads in charge of the Malaysian Jet mystery it would have been solved long ago!!

PaulW - 4-4-2014 at 01:49 PM

You guys are correct I assumed without measuring the vehicle was closer to the coast.
Measuring the roads I now I find I need better directions & distances
Going Rt there are 2 washes. Going Left again 2.

Even with exact coords of the vehicle the search area will be huge.
Even a good tracker will fail after all this time. What is needed to find the remains would be lots of searchers all taking different logical paths. Whoever goes better take lots of Bing and GE images in a laptop so real time views can make some sense in the field. Hard copy of the images would be required for each party taking their route.Several of the guys here in SF have the laptop capability in their Jeeps.
For now, I give up.
PW

woody with a view - 4-4-2014 at 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If we had the Nomads in charge of the Malaysian Jet mystery it would have been solved long ago!!


or Tattoo, from Fantasy Island! he'd find it....

EnsenadaDr - 4-4-2014 at 02:51 PM

that search is gonna end up like Amelia Earhart one of the great unsolved mysteries of aviation history.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If we had the Nomads in charge of the Malaysian Jet mystery it would have been solved long ago!!


or Tattoo, from Fantasy Island! he'd find it....

PaulW - 4-4-2014 at 03:02 PM

There is a search & rescue org in San Felipe called CERT Community Emergency Response Team
If the family want to contact them go to https://www.facebook.com/CertSanFelipeBc?ref=stream
Paul

BajaBlanca - 4-4-2014 at 06:48 PM

It would be nice if we had an exact location where the car was. We could take it from there, right?

Marla Daily - 4-4-2014 at 07:06 PM

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find the local vaquero who found the car. Anyone within miles will know about it.

DENNIS - 4-4-2014 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marla Daily
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find the local vaquero who found the car. Anyone within miles will know about it.


People don't generally like to get involved...especially with a disappearance in this day and age. They would have a hard time tracing down anyone involved in this.

Hook - 4-5-2014 at 05:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
People don't generally like to get involved...especially with a disappearance in this day and age. They would have a hard time tracing down anyone involved in this.


And maybe, just maybe, that's what the authorities are hoping.

This whole delay in releasing the location, releasing the car, discouraging a private search is very suspicious, IMO. It's like they want the trail as cold as possible.

The authorities havent even been back to the location on their own? That's preposterous.

Or could they be plotting their shakedown of the family for bogus search fees and such.

Of course, complete incompetency can never be ruled out when it comes to the local police in Mexico. Remember that many are only hired by political cronies and have zero training.

But this smacks of being more deliberate than incompetent.

[Edited on 4-5-2014 by Hook]

latina - 4-5-2014 at 07:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips
I forgot to mention that the keys for the vehicle were found inside and his wallet was not found.

Until we know the exact location where the 4 Runner was found then we can discuss contacting others for help on the next step.


This piece of information has to be relevant to how far from the 4 runner's location (when the police divulge it) Gary could be found. Was the truck unlocked? Why would the keys still be in the truck and not in his pocket? If he was planning to go searching for help to get unstuck he would have locked it up and taken the keys, to secure his camera, etc. Were the keys still in the ignition? Or had he accidentally locked himself out of the truck?

Taco de Baja - 4-5-2014 at 07:49 AM

It could be as simple as Gary was out exploring on foot or doing his morning business slipped and fell and injured himself badly enough that he could not get back to the truck. When I'm out exploring in the boonies I will often leave the keys in the car. The cops said the truck was 'stuck' but it had also been there 6 months and probably been through a few storms. Maybe it just looked that way.

DENNIS - 4-5-2014 at 07:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook

This whole delay in releasing the location, releasing the car, discouraging a private search is very suspicious,


You, Hook, should know by now that authority in Mexico stays at the top. It isn't so easily delegated to others as in the states. This police chief , or whatever he is, has bosses, who have bosses. Eventually one of them will spill the entire pot of beans.
Quote:

The authorities havent even been back to the location on their own? That's preposterous.


You know that? How?
Quote:

Or could they be plotting their shakedown of the family for bogus search fees and such.


Now...I would be called a racist here for implying that , but you may be right. Time will tell. The profit motive looms large down here.
Quote:

But this smacks of being more deliberate than incompetent.



Again........maybe so.

EnsenadaDr - 4-5-2014 at 09:09 AM

Whatever the case may be, the family has specifically posted and requested that Nomads join in the search. Where are the "experts" now that we need them? They told the "amateur sleuths" to stay out of this until the family signals otherwise. The family has now made it clear they want a search team organized. Or do the experts feel they don't want the amateurs meddling in their investigation??

DENNIS - 4-5-2014 at 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The family has now made it clear they want a search team organized. Or do the experts feel they don't want the amateurs meddling in their investigation??


If that's what the family wants........then, that's what they should do. Organize one.

Marla Daily - 4-5-2014 at 10:39 AM

I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)

Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.

The search can spread out from the car location.

David K - 4-5-2014 at 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marla Daily
I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)

Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.

The search can spread out from the car location.


The car was towed to Cataviña, and where it came from is known, the family already has all those details... No need to quiz people in Cataviña. Before too many go to the site, it probably should be better investigated by professionals.

absinvestor - 4-5-2014 at 10:46 AM

Latina- your comment about him possibly locking himself out struck a nerve. Most of us have at one time or another done that. Especially with power locks it is easy for the wind to blow a door shut and you find yourself locked out. Whether the keys were in the ignition is important. Leaving the keys on the floor or on the seat is not so suspicious but leaving them in the ignition is. Do we know if there is any gas in the tank? Could he have run out trying to get unstuck? At this point everything is speculation but the more we know for sure will help in the investigation.

woody with a view - 4-5-2014 at 10:59 AM

if you locked your keys inside would you walk away or look 10 feet away to find a rock?

willardguy - 4-5-2014 at 11:16 AM

I betcha gottapeso would have some "profound" thoughts on this.

Taco de Baja - 4-5-2014 at 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marla Daily
I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)

Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.

The search can spread out from the car location.


If anyone wants to talk to the locals, the best spot is likely going to be being at the green cement building ("Salon" on David's GE image, above) on a Sunday morning. This spot is likely within several miles of where the vehicle was found. It’s 2-2.5 hours off the pavement, and ~1 hour from the coast.

I passed through there in late August of 2006 around 11:00 am on a Sunday and the parking area was packed with vehicles, likely all the local ranchers, and maybe even the fishermen attending church services. I had no ideas that many people lived out there, although many may have come from a 20-30 mile radius around the building. I got a flat-tire a little later up the road and every vehicle slowed or stopped to see if we needed help as they passed by; the temp was well north of 100 degrees at the time. Good people out there, for sure. Guaranteed someone there will know something; or actually be the ones who found it.

Until it can be determined where the vehicle was found, searches should not occur and would really be pointless; and searches should not really occur until the authorities in charge give their okay.

Skipjack Joe - 4-5-2014 at 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by latina

Were the keys still in the ignition? Or had he accidentally locked himself out of the truck?



Now that's an interesting proposition. A very interesting idea.

It always bothered me that he went looking for help without the food left in the car.

On the other hand if I was that desperate I would put a rock through the windshield to get at the water and food and keys.

BTW, if you follow the dirt road from hwy 1 it forks at about 40km and there is a small ranch 10km further on the right fork. That may have well have been the ranchero that found the car.

BajaGringo - 4-5-2014 at 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
BTW, if you follow the dirt road from hwy 1 it forks at about 40km and there is a small ranch 10km further on the right fork. That may have well have been the ranchero that found the car.


Do you mean the ranch that sells cheese with several, large solar panels and a very large wind mill? That is the same rancher who took a team down and extracted Mike Younghusband from the bottom of the cliffs when he got stranded.

It is easy to make accusations and point fingers at what seems to be a lack of action from the authorities in the area. You have to understand it is very much like the old west down there. A very large, desolate region with rugged terrain and only a few souls available to provide any government services to hundreds of square miles in all directions with little to no communication. Those who do provide service also have many hats to wear and simply cannot devote 100% of their time and attention to one specific situation.

That is one of the biggest reasons why the large Ensenada municipality needs to be broken up into several smaller, self governing cities. Ensenada, whose city government manages the finances for the entire municipality keeps 99% of the cash for herself. The rest of the region, all the way down to the 28th parallel, is left with no more than bread crumbs and struggles to provide any type of services.

There are some very good people in the Cataviña area and to imply they simply don't care or are looking to "shake down" the family is an insult and unwarranted. Spend some serious time there and you will quickly discover...

[Edited on 4-5-2014 by BajaGringo]

DianaT - 4-5-2014 at 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo

There are some very good people in the Cataviña area and to imply they simply don't care or are looking to "shake down" the family is an insult and unwarranted. Spend some serious time there and you will quickly discover...



Seems to be quite a bit of that kind of thing going all around this forum lately.

Hopefully some people who have some training in search and rescue will be able to respond to the families request and one way or another, I hope they find answers. I also hope they are people who will cooperate with local people.

lizard lips - 4-5-2014 at 02:29 PM

I was the person, on behalf of the family, that interviewed the rancher that found the vehicle last Thursday. This is exactly what he told me. He said that on March 04 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and came upon Gary's vehicle in an arroyo very close to his ranch. He has 80 head and because it's an open range he often goes looking to make sure all is well. He said Gary's 4 Runner's back tires were sunk in the sand and there was a shovel and a rake close by and it appeared that someone was attempting to dig out the tires to free it up with no success.

The vehicle was locked and there was a surfboard sticking out the back window which was rolled up so the board had just enough room to stick out and where the window hit the board, the board was wrapped in a towel. The front passenger seat was pushed forward so that the board could fit all the way to the front windshield.

He was able to get into the vehicle, I didn't ask how, and he saw a small ice chest with two beers and some orange juice and water which appeared to be from the melted ice. The water was not cold to the touch. He also saw two bags of clothes containing shirts and short pants. In between the two front seats was a container with U.S. coins and when he picked up the container he noticed a set of keys that fit the ignition for the vehicle. There was also two "expensive" cameras and some canned food. Everything in the SUV appeared to be well kept and neatly organized. There were no water bottles in the car. The vehicle was dusty but not very dirty.

The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead.

He said he also went on horseback in circles for about an hour and did a small search for anything else that may be there for about an hour.

These are the directions where he said he found it: At km 189, heading south on Hwy 1, is a turn off approximately 12 km prior to reaching Catavina. There is a large sign that says "San Jose". You turn right heading towards the ocean. You stay on this dirt road for approximately 38 kilometers and come to a Y in the road. You take the dirt road to the right and travel approximately 10 kilometers and turn left and follow this dirt road another 2 km and off to the right is an arroyo about 400 meters and the vehicle was behind a small hill off to the right side. He stated that you would not be able to see the 4 Runner while traveling on the road. It was hidden from view. His ranch is about 2 km further. Very close indeed!

On March 05 the rancher reported that he drove his tractor to the vehicle and towed it to his ranch where it would be safe. Apparently other ranchers also are looking for cattle and he didn't want anything to happen to the SUV and all of the contents. After towing he drove to the Catavina Police and informed them of the vehicle. On March 09 the police came to his ranch and towed the SUV to their impound yard.

The rancher found a phone number for what he thought was the owners family and called and told them that the vehicle was found and where it was. He had no knowledge of Garys disappearance prior to locating the SUV.

This is where the interview became interesting…. The rancher said in the beginning of December 2013 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and was at this exact spot where he found the SUV on March 4 and it definitely was not there. He also mentioned that other ranchers patrol this area weekly and no one reported the abandoned vehicle. The rancher said he thinks the vehicle was only there, at the most, for one week.

It was also learned that the local habitat consists of Coyotes, Mountain Lions, and a lot of Rattle snakes.

He also said that if Gary was attempting to find someone for help, there are ranch houses nearby and several people travel that road on a daily basis. This area, of course, is not heavily populated but someone would have driven by and seen him if he was walking.

This is all he knows and he was thanked for his concern and honesty by me and the family who has also talked to him and his daughter and son whom I also met. Very nice people.

I told the family to post the information in the last post and I also told them not to revel the dates and the entire story in that I wanted to make some calls first. So it's my fault for not giving you the entire story but I am doing this now. I hope you can appreciate this in that I wanted to get the full story from another source I have and all is correct.

A call was received from the Tijuana Embassy to the Patton family that the vehicle is ready to be picked up and has been released so they are making plans to go to San Quintin, where the car is now, and drive it back. The family also told me that they want to do a search in the area where the vehicle was found towards the first part of May. I explained to the family that it's a BIG desert and won't be easy but it must be done.

Now, I'm sure some of you are concerned about the camera and the last photos that were taken on the same day he went missing as the camera had the date and time function operating. The camera was inspected Gary's son when they initially saw the SUV at the Catavina Police impound yard and his son turned the camera on and saw the photo. The photo was a picture of a little memorial that was placed on the highway where apparently an accident occurred and the family of the victim constructed it. You all have seen plenty of these. My thoughts are maybe Gary inserted this chip after he used up another one. Who knows and we won't know until the camera is returned and all of the photos are viewed.

If the ranchers thoughts are true about how long he thinks the 4 Runner was actually there then this would have been about six weeks ago that either Gary or someone else got the vehicle stuck in the sand.

After the interview I called and explained everything to the family and once again asked about Garys mental health and their thoughts about about this new information. They told me, just like before, that Gary was in a good mental state and never had any problems. Their hopes are up about what was learned and so it should be.

To date Gary's ATM card has not been used.

Thats all for now. If more information comes forward it will be posted.

absinvestor - 4-5-2014 at 03:00 PM

Lots of great info- thanks. I'm sure others will have other thoughts but what surprises me is that when traveling by SUV that one would have both a shovel and a rake. A shovel yes but a rake is hard to pack and takes up a lot of precious room. Normally a shovel is all one needs.

tripledigitken - 4-5-2014 at 03:09 PM

I don't take a rake, but it would be handy for grooming a tent site.

Barry A. - 4-5-2014 at 03:17 PM

I DO take a steel headed stiff-tined rake--------good for raking up cow-chips (etc.) and removing from campsite, and general cleanup, and also revealing crawling critters buried in the sand around your cot or tent. The rake rides on top of my camper, tied down and out of the way.

Barry

BornFisher - 4-5-2014 at 04:00 PM

Yeah, last year I found a rake where I camped.
What is important here are the cameras. Was he a camera bug who took many daily pics as so many do?
Also was the surfboard his?
If he drove past the ranches, would he see them?
It surprises me the rancher was unaware of the search. I know Bryon McKenzie posted posters all over Catavina.

DENNIS - 4-5-2014 at 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BornFisher
It surprises me the rancher was unaware of the search. I know Bryon McKenzie posted posters all over Catavina.


Like I mentioned earlier, these people understandably are careful to not get involved. Traditionally, they distrust the police and could be included in an investigation just to fill a void.
Very few, if any, will say what they know or hear, if anything at all.
Can't blame them for that.

BornFisher - 4-5-2014 at 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by BornFisher
It surprises me the rancher was unaware of the search. I know Bryon McKenzie posted posters all over Catavina.


Like I mentioned earlier, these people understandably are careful to not get involved. Traditionally, they distrust the police and could be included in an investigation just to fill a void.
Very few, if any, will say what they know or hear, if anything at all.
Can't blame them for that.


Fortunately this rancher did get involved, and in a BIG way!

TMW - 4-5-2014 at 04:21 PM

From the description here is where the car was found.

willardguy - 4-5-2014 at 04:25 PM

just wondering out loud, how did the rancher get inside the car?
anyway great job lizard lips, the family is lucky to have you on their side!:yes:

BajaNomad - 4-5-2014 at 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
From the description here is where the car was found.


Or - with all the "approx" distances - perhaps here?:

http://goo.gl/maps/U2WUo

patton-2-4-km.jpg - 50kB

JoeJustJoe - 4-5-2014 at 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
just wondering out loud, how did the rancher get inside the car?
anyway great job lizard lips, the family is lucky to have you on their side!:yes:


Not only that but why were a set of keys locked inside the 4-Runner, but the SUV locked on the outside?

dtbushpilot - 4-5-2014 at 05:26 PM

The 4runner was still at the police station in Catavina at 9am today.

Ateo - 4-5-2014 at 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips
This is where the interview became interesting…. The rancher said in the beginning of December 2013 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and was at this exact spot where he found the SUV on March 4 and it definitely was not there. He also mentioned that other ranchers patrol this area weekly and no one reported the abandoned vehicle. The rancher said he thinks the vehicle was only there, at the most, for one week.


This is where the interview became interesting for sure.....

That would mean Gary or Gary's vehicle was somewhere else down there for 3+ months post disappearance. Once they found the vehicle I assumed it had probably been there since 9/5 or so, and was out of site, thus no reports.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Ateo]

BornFisher - 4-5-2014 at 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
just wondering out loud, how did the rancher get inside the car?
anyway great job lizard lips, the family is lucky to have you on their side!:yes:


Not only that but why were a set of keys locked inside the 4-Runner, but the SUV locked on the outside?


As Sherlock said "the simplest explanation, is usually the answer", or something like that. So in this case probably the rancher did some digging and found some hidden keys.
Here, the cameras could mean so much. Even if they have no pics after San Quentin, that is good info.
Still wonder about the surfboard, if it was not his, that changes everything!

willardguy - 4-5-2014 at 07:48 PM

no, he had a surfboard from the get go!

BornFisher - 4-5-2014 at 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
no, he had a surfboard from the get go!


Yes he had a surfboard, I know that. But I`m asking if the surfboard that was in the vehicle was his. If it wasn`t, then he may have ran into someone who wanted his vehicle, but not his board.
Also, you ask how to enter a locked vehicle. If you have a cracked window for a surfboard, any car thief could get in there, muy pronto!! And even if you don`t steal cars on a regular basis, you could find a way (think rock).
The key to all this are the cameras.

wiltonh - 4-5-2014 at 08:47 PM

I decided to get my Baja California Almanac and look up the location listed in this thread. What I found surprised me. The map listed as 7 shows Catavina near the top and the coast down the left hand side. It should show the area where the car was found.

If you check the Latitude along the edges it is wrong. It shows 31'XX where it should be 29'XX. To prove this you can look at map 8 on the next page. It has the same latitude as map 7. It is correctly marked as 29'XX.

The date on my Baja California Almanac is 2009.

This winter I heard that there is a new Baja Almanac coming soon and the 2009 version is out of print.

David K - 4-5-2014 at 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wiltonh
I decided to get my Baja California Almanac and look up the location listed in this thread. What I found surprised me. The map listed as 7 shows Catavina near the top and the coast down the left hand side. It should show the area where the car was found.

If you check the Latitude along the edges it is wrong. It shows 31'XX where it should be 29'XX. To prove this you can look at map 8 on the next page. It has the same latitude as map 7. It is correctly marked as 29'XX.

The date on my Baja California Almanac is 2009.

This winter I heard that there is a new Baja Almanac coming soon and the 2009 version is out of print.


Yes, we pointed out all the latitude errors back in 2009. Ignoring those, the maps are still some of the best for the other data at that scale. Map 7, on the line between O-2 and P-2 is where the 4Runner was found.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by David K]

Skipjack Joe - 4-5-2014 at 09:29 PM

A couple of things are disturbing.

A. The vehicle is full of food and water which he leaves to search for help.

B. After missing for 6 months the vehicle arrived in this remote location a few weeks ago.

Of course both can be explained but not very easily. And with a low probability.

EnsenadaDr - 4-5-2014 at 10:09 PM

How do we know that Gary left the car there and went walking? Given that there were signs posted for a missing person, maybe the person or persons held him up at gunpoint, robbed him, then took the car for a joyride and knew that there was a search on for the vehicle and dumped it in that spot. That would explain the rancher not seeing the car there before and the uneaten food.

lizard lips - 4-5-2014 at 10:16 PM

Yes this was his red surfboard and there was no drinking water found in the vehicle just the melted water in the ice chest.

The battery in the 4 Runner should have had some juice if it was only there for a week.

Gary could have very well had an extra set of keys.

Was Gary the one who drove it to this location or because of all the flyers posted and the publicity maybe the person who killed him or stole his vehicle wanted to throw off the authorities and place the cameras and other items in the car and show that there was an attempt to get the vehicle unstuck from the sand just to take the heat off him and have all of this staged?

Gary had a tent, sleeping bag and several other items in the 4 Runner when he left Orange County. When the police report is obtained there should be a list of all personal items found.

We can go on and on with scenarios and it's great we do this. Anything is possible now.

gary and L.L. help

captkw - 4-5-2014 at 11:02 PM

Thank you SIR !! from all of us in concern !! TO : Lizard Lips

woody with a view - 4-6-2014 at 12:01 AM

there's a sign post up ahead.......:?:

Santiago - 4-6-2014 at 07:01 AM

Doesn't everyone take two sets of keys?
LL: I'm curious on your interview technique - how did/do you get the rancher to divulge this info? Some folks by nature are forthcoming and some are not. This is probably a cultural question and not germane to this thread, just curious.
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