BajaNomad

Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

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DENNIS - 5-20-2010 at 06:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
.

those photos simply tell me how hard people try to get to US to serve burritos to and tend gardens of lard-butt gringos that never struggled a day in their life. in striving for opportunity, they abandon their few, meager possesions they carried on their backs.



That makes no sense. For what little they have, why would they throw it away? You mean to tell me they are changing their attire to fit the occasion...from their traveling ensemble to their assimilation collection? That's a hard-sell.
I want answers. Besides, if you were really concerned, you'd take a couple of you goat buddies down there and eat all that stuff...for the cause.

toneart - 5-20-2010 at 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If you PUNKS think that AMERICA is going down, you have another think Coming.

Just look at the Gun Sales in Texas! If you Punks don't look out we will take care of you like we did at the Alamo!!

We can defeat these Weak Minded Liberals without any Trouble/


James Cagney or Clint Eastwood:?::lol::lol:

DENNIS - 5-20-2010 at 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
James Cagney or Clint Eastwood:?::lol::lol:


Edward G. Robinson...for sure.

http://tinyurl.com/24phvts

Losing their Shirts

MrBillM - 5-20-2010 at 07:55 AM

Having seen similar photos (including Aerial Video) on various "Immigration" specials AND in local newspapers, these come as no surprise and could very likely be accurate.

The clothes come as NO surprise since it was pointed out by ICE themselves in one segment I watched. The "Travellers" layer on all of the clothes they can rather than attempt to carry it. When the journey turns out to be longer (and Hotter) than expected or when they simply start wearing down, they shed.

Anyone who doubts it can, I suppose, travel to the areas in question and get it from the Horse's Mouth (orASS). It's mostly "public" land. Make sure you have ID. AND, means of self-defense might be advised. You just never know who you may run into. Although, since they're ALL just good-hearted gentle poor folks who are simply looking for work, you might be OK.

Give it a whirl. Report Back. IF you can.

DENNIS - 5-20-2010 at 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM

The "Travellers" layer on all of the clothes they can rather than attempt to carry it. When the journey turns out to be longer (and Hotter) than expected or when they simply start wearing down, they shed.

means of self-defense might be advised. You just never know who you may run into. Although, since they're ALL just good-hearted gentle poor folks who are simply looking for work, you might be OK.



Thanks, Bill. At least that's a reasonable explaination for the style question.

Your following point is possibly the most alarming one in this thread. It seems so much attention is being placed on law and order around Home Depot that the most dangerous and insidious issue remains ignored, that being the corridor through Southern Arizona being used for smuggleing drugs. Eventually this will have to be addressed and if not, we'll certainly be required to ask why it isn't. So, why don't we ask now.
I don't understand why this has been virtually ignored here in favor of bickering over the legality of the pool cleaner. Drugs are by far the more serious problem of the two.

Late-Breaking News resolves Legality of Az Law

MrBillM - 5-20-2010 at 08:08 AM

Thankfully, we now have an expert analysis of the questionable law by a renowned scholar and Constitutional authority whose opinions on tough issues facing the court are constatnly sought out when doubts are expressed.

Eva Longoria.

Who says that the law is Clearly Unconstitutional since we can't have States making their own laws.

After all of this discussion, one superior mind has been able to clear things up.

If only more of us had watched "Desperate Housewives" we would have known where to look for inspiration.

MitchMan - 5-20-2010 at 08:08 AM

Skeet, violence is a tool of the ignorant. Ignorance is reflective of a weak mind.

ElFaro - 5-20-2010 at 08:15 AM

This thead is as big or bigger than the hurricane threads of last year !!!

DENNIS - 5-20-2010 at 08:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
If only more of us had watched "Desperate Housewives" we would have known where to look for inspiration.


Perhaps her political inspiration is a residual of her pillow-talk with Froggy The Basketball Player, her French husband.

Whaa?

Dave - 5-20-2010 at 08:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If you Punks don't look out we will take care of you like we did at the Alamo!!


Is this how Texans teach history?

I learned a slightly different version. :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 5-20-2010 at 08:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElFaro
This thead is as big or bigger than the hurricane threads of last year !!!


Top 5 most viewed topics:
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Stickers - 5-20-2010 at 08:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM

If only more of us had watched "Desperate Housewives" we would have known where to look for inspiration.


Politics aside Eva Longoria inspires me! She is a beauty and an all American good girl of Mexican descent.

:yes:

tripledigitken - 5-20-2010 at 08:23 AM

Perhaps the real motivation behind the AZ bill is coming to pass.

Obama meeting with Calderon yesterday at the Whitehouse, mentioned the AZ law and plans to deal with the immigration issue on a federal level. On both sides of this issue that is reason to be at least somewhat hopeful.


The status quo is unacceptable.

Ken

[Edited on 5-20-2010 by tripledigitken]

bajaguy - 5-20-2010 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If you Punks don't look out we will take care of you like we did at the Alamo!!


Is this how Texans teach history?

I learned a slightly different version. :rolleyes:





Well, it's pretty easy to confuse the Alamo with the skirmish at San Jacinto

Understandable

Dave - 5-20-2010 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy

Well, it's pretty easy to confuse the Alamo with the skirmish at San Jacinto


They both share the letters 'A' and 'O'.

And, then, there was that movie. :rolleyes:

toneart - 5-20-2010 at 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
James Cagney or Clint Eastwood:?::lol::lol:


Edward G. Robinson...for sure.

http://tinyurl.com/24phvts


Dennis,

You've nailed it! Of course Skeet is doing his Edward G. Robinson impression. :light::yes:

Becoming a Part of the Solution

MrBillM - 5-22-2010 at 09:14 AM

As a result of the Brouhaha regarding ID discrimination, I saw this a.m. that Princeton, New Jersey is sponsoring a REAL (sort of) Photo ID program for ANYBODY who needs an ID. Unlike the Dark Forces in Arizona, the Princeton Police are on board and think it's a GREAT idea. "This way we'll know who people are" was one of the more cogent comments by officialdom. Of course, you will know who they "say" they are.

In the spirit of Open International Harmonious Relations, I suggest that we ALL get into the Princeton spirit and forgo the use of oppressive governmental ID programs by replacing the ID we present to officials with alternative forms.

One answer "might" be returning to the IDs that used to come in Cereal Boxes. An I.D. issued that way by the Peoples Republic of Cheerios should satisfy official requirements. However, that does have the discriminatory aspect of influencing dietary choices.

Realizing that "Difficult Times require Difficult Decisions" and we ALL need to do our part in support of our Brethren to the South and Elsewhere, I am inaugurating a program whereby anyone who has the need for valid ID will be issued said identifying them as LEGAL residents of the San Bernardino County Semi-Autonomous Free-State of MrBill.

Not only will all information on the ID document be optional, we will even make available stock photos to be substituted if you don't wish to supply your own. A wide variety of same can be chosen from so that you can have one that looks "somewhat" like you and fits whatever physical descriptive information included on the form.

To assuage any doubts from an official who examines the ID form, each will be stamped with the Official Government seal of the Monarchy of MrBill and personally attested to by the signature of the Emperor himself.

The back of the form will include Official Diplomatic Immunity from ANY prosecution by those outside the State Boundaries of MrBill and the requirement that anyone so protected by the Kingdom of MrBill will be transported forthwith back to our protective supervision.

While Princeton is charging $10.00 each for Adults and $5.00 for children (bulk discounts available ?), Our principality is forced by administrative considerations to charge a somewhat higher fee at $49.95, but we are also guaranteeing that the full powers of our Armed Forces will protect every person possessing said documents.

AND, for a limited time, we'll be including a "Sham-Wow" with each Adult ID.

Once we go into printing, details will be made available.

durrelllrobert - 5-22-2010 at 10:10 AM

let's blame it all on BOTH of the Bushes:lol::lol:
http://www.nartube.com/861571aa60b3224aefe659fd8d9f8381e1666...

durrelllrobert - 5-22-2010 at 10:37 AM

....and it just isn't Mexicans that are coming:fire:

Video 1 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

Video 2 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html

monoloco - 5-22-2010 at 11:28 AM

I just read an article on counterpunch that Obama has deported 100,000 more illegal aliens in the last year than GWB deported in his final year in office.

gnukid - 5-22-2010 at 12:08 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/21/official-says-fed...

Top Official Says Feds May Not Process Illegals Referred From Arizona

A top Department of Homeland Security official reportedly said his agency will not necessarily process illegal immigrants referred to them by Arizona authorities.

AP FILE: John Morton, assistant secretary of homeland security for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

This article was updated at 4:36 p.m. on May 21. See editor's note at the bottom of the article.

A top Department of Homeland Security official reportedly said his agency will not necessarily process illegal immigrants referred to them by Arizona authorities.

John Morton, assistant secretary of homeland security for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, made the comment during a meeting on Wednesday with the editorial board of the Chicago Tribune, the newspaper reports.

"I don't think the Arizona law, or laws like it, are the solution," Morton told the newspaper.

The best way to reduce illegal immigration is through a comprehensive federal approach, he said, and not a patchwork of state laws.



Immigrant rights' supporters around the country took to the streets on May 1 to protest Arizona's new immigration law which seeks to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants. Take a look at the massive protests.

The law, which criminalizes being in the state illegally and requires authorities to check suspects for immigration status, is not "good government," Morton said.

In response to Morton's comments, DHS officials said President Obama has ordered the Department of Justice to examine the civil rights and other implications of the law.

"That review will inform the government's actions going forward," DHS spokesman Matt Chandler told Fox News on Friday.

Fox News legal analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano said ICE is not obligated to process illegal immigrants referred to them by Arizona authorities.

"ICE has the legal discretion to accept or not to accept persons delivered to it by non-federal personnel," Napolitano said. "It also has the discretion to deport or not to deport persons delivered to it by any government agents, even its own."

Morton, according to a biography posted on ICE's website, began his federal service in 1994 and has held numerous positions at the Department of Justice, including as a trial attorney and special assistant to the general counsel in the former Immigration and Naturalization Service and as counsel to the deputy attorney general.

Border apprehensions in Arizona, where roughly 500,000 illegal immigrants are estimated to be living, are up 6 percent since October, according to federal statistics. Roughly 6.5 million residents live in Arizona.

Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-AL, said it appeared the Obama administration is "nullifying existing law" and suggested Morton may not be the right person for his post if he fails to enforce federal immigration law.

"If he feels he cannot enforce the law, he shouldn't have the job," Sessions told Fox News. "That makes him, in my view, not fulfilling the responsibilities of his office."

Sessions said the U.S. government has "systematically failed" to enforce federal immigration law and claimed Morton's statement is an indication that federal officials do not plan on working with Arizona authorities regarding its controversial law.

"They're telegraphing to every ICE agency in America that they really don't intend on cooperating with Arizona," Sessions said. "The federal government should step up and do it. It's their responsibility."

Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-AL, said it appeared the Obama administration is "nullifying existing law" and suggested Morton may not be the right person for his post if he fails to enforce federal immigration law.

"If he feels he cannot enforce the law, he shouldn't have the job," Sessions told Fox News. "That makes him, in my view, not fulfilling the responsibilities of his office."

Sessions said the U.S. government has "systematically failed" to enforce federal immigration law and claimed Morton's statement is an indication that federal officials do not plan on working with Arizona authorities regarding its controversial law.

"They're telegraphing to every ICE agency in America that they really don't intend on cooperating with Arizona," Sessions said. "The federal government should step up and do it. It's their responsibility."

Editor's Note: An earlier version of this article incorrectly attributed a quote by Judge Andrew Napolitano to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

oldlady - 5-22-2010 at 12:35 PM

We all thought "rule of law" was over rated anyway. :biggrin:

Cypress - 5-22-2010 at 12:48 PM

What the heck? Other than tax and toss money to the unions, what have the feds been doing of late?:?: Illegal aliens? Unemployment? Gulf oil spill?:O The list is endless! What's going on here?:?: Arizona is just doing what the feds have been unwilling or unable to do.:D

oldlady - 5-22-2010 at 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
...... What's going on here?:?:


Change.

mtgoat666 - 5-22-2010 at 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
What the heck? Other than tax and toss money to the unions, what have the feds been doing of late?:?: Illegal aliens? Unemployment? Gulf oil spill?:O The list is endless! What's going on here?:?: Arizona is just doing what the feds have been unwilling or unable to do.:D


i thought you teabags and republicans want smaller and less involved govt. now you are asking for govt to do more, be in more places, etc. no wonder people think conservatives are hypocrits

Mongoloid Goats

MrBillM - 5-22-2010 at 01:48 PM

hypocrits (sic) ?

GoatScheisse's spelling and thinking are in the same league.

His limited mental capacity is never more evident than when he "attempts" to attack the concept of Limited Government which doesn't mean "Small" government and never did.

The logic holds that Government should exist ONLY to the extent NECESSARY and that such governing is best kept to the MOST Local level NECESSARY so that those in the government will be as closely monitored and managed by the people as NECESSARY, including removal and replacement of Representatives as NECESSARY. Bad actions on the part of officials should be easily remedied by popular political action.

Where it is shown that the Federal Government is best suited to such purpose AND is empowered to act in accordance with the Constitution, said Government action is well and good. The Constitution was founded on the premise that the Federal Government was something to be held in close control by the people through their States and the Federal Government's powers were limited out of reasonable fear.

The (True) Conservative belief in "Limited" Government differs dramatically from the pervasive belief among Liberals that an All-Powerful Central Government should inherently be empowered to address ANY and ALL situations better left to the PEOPLE or Local, County and State Governments (in that order).

No Hypocrisy there. Or, Hypocrites.

Timo1 - 5-22-2010 at 03:08 PM

Isn't it better to have a few in Gov. actually getting something accomplished rather than a whole whack of them doing nothing ???
Seems like thats whats going on....nothing

Mexicorn - 5-22-2010 at 08:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
....and it just isn't Mexicans that are coming:fire:

Video 1 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

Video 2 http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html



How many of these "OTM's" come in through Canada?
The 9-11 hijackers did.

Popping Off and Stuck on Stupid

MrBillM - 5-23-2010 at 08:46 AM

"The 911 Hijackers did".

So What ?

Securing the Southern Border and addressing the Illegal Immigration problem is a Law-Enforcement, Economic and National-Security problem.

We should be (and hopefully are) addressing properly the immigration holes that allowed those Terrorists in, but it should not be the sole focus of our activities.

http://securetheborder.org

durrelllrobert - 5-23-2010 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
How many of these "OTM's" come in through Canada?
The 9-11 hijackers did.

Offical estimate (sorry I can't find link anymore) is that there are 75,000 Canadians illigeally living in the US and that there are 250,000 US citizens illegally living in Canada:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Donjulio - 5-23-2010 at 08:56 AM

Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick - unless of course they are illegals.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - unless of course they are illegals.

Love they neighbor as thyself - unless of course they are illegals.

Nice!

Feed, Clothe, Heal ..........

MrBillM - 5-23-2010 at 09:11 AM

And DEPORT.

Let's strike a deal. Works for me.

AND, I love the Illegals at least as much as the rest of my neighbors.

I've met some I'd be happy to Love. At least, for awhile. At one time, that is. Long ago. Far Far Away.

I've always worried about that "Do onto others business". Others often do some Bad things. I prefer "Trust, but Verify" and "Semper Paratus".

Which reminds me of a friend many years ago in Indio who, through a "network" he'd been referred to by another friend, "imported" a Female companion at a reasonable (at least affordable) cost. Delivery on the U.S. side. He liked to say (to friends only, I imagine) that "If I get tired of her, I can just turn her in to Immigration". Never did as far as I know. I was between wives at the time and he offered to help me get in touch with the same people, but I deferred. Seemed like a plan with a lot of things that could go wrong. Almost as restrictive as Marriage.

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by MrBillM]

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 10:59 AM

Stuck on Stupid-


I'll say it again the United states is ADDICTED to cheap labor and illicit narcotics that come in through Mexico. Fix that you fix the problem it's that easy.
But I'm Stuck on stupig according to some around here.

Choosing scripture

Dave - 5-23-2010 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick - unless of course they are illegals.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - unless of course they are illegals.

Love they neighbor as thyself - unless of course they are illegals.

Nice!


Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's.

Translation:

If Cesar is illegal...turn him in. :rolleyes:

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 11:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Stuck on Stupid-


I'll say it again the United states is ADDICTED to cheap labor and illicit narcotics that come in through Mexico. Fix that you fix the problem it's that easy.
But I'm Stuck on stupig according to some around here.


No matter how many times you say it we ain't ever going to "fix" the "demand" problems you speak of. I say (again) secure the borders, strickly enforce the employer laws, and most of the "illegal" problem will slowly go away. Your emphathise on "demand" I believe is exagerated--------IMO MOST Americans are NOT addicted to illegal drugs, despite your saying it over and over again, but I will concede that it is a huge problem. I personally do not hang with illegal drug users, or illegal aliens, so of course I don't see the problem quite as acutely as you do, I suppose (!?!?!?!) (kidding)

Barry

bajalou - 5-23-2010 at 11:31 AM

Barry ??

Why are illegal drugs being brought into the US? There HAS to be a demand and sale for them. Maybe not the majority of US citizens, but enough to create the demand.

There can be no "exaggeration" of the emphases of "demand". Demand is what fuels the whole drug business.

Or can you explain to me where the drugs being grown in the US and smuggled into the country are going if not to a group of people who demand to have the product (as shown buy their purchases of it)?

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 11:38 AM

Lou----------of course your right-------- I guess I did not say that right---------drugs ARE a huge problem, no doubt about it. For instance, if only 2% of Americans were users of illegal drugs, that would represent at least 6 million folks demanding illegal drugs in the USA------THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM, I agree. My only point was the rebuttal to the inference that MOST Americans demanded illegal drugs-------not so, I say.

Perhaps the "inference" is really not there, and I am over-reacting.

Barry

k-rico - 5-23-2010 at 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For instance, if only 2% of Americans were users of illegal drugs, that would represent at least 6 million folks demanding illegal drugs in the USA------THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM
Barry


4 times HUGE actually:

"Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 8.0% (2007)"

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/druguse.htm

Packoderm - 5-23-2010 at 11:51 AM

There are 17.6 million alcoholics in the U.S. A surefire way to make this a much more huge problem would be to criminalize alcohol. Let's not let recreational drugs be such a huge problem and thus able to be tied to the illegal immigration debate. Anyway, many addicted to drugs are self-medicating for ailments such as depression and insomnia. Fix the medical system in the U.S. and many other problems would be fixed as well. So, in short, legal importation of drugs will be good for Mexico once they are legalized - legal seems to be the key word in this whole debate.

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For instance, if only 2% of Americans were users of illegal drugs, that would represent at least 6 million folks demanding illegal drugs in the USA------THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM
Barry


4 times HUGE actually:

"Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 8.0% (2007)"

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/druguse.htm


-------if that doesn't represent "societal decay" I don't know what does!!!! Jeeeezo, what a mess!!!! STUPID is too kind a word!!!! Masochistic and suicidal is more like it! Skeeter is right---about a LOT of things.

Barry

Bajaboy - 5-23-2010 at 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
Barry ??

Why are illegal drugs being brought into the US? There HAS to be a demand and sale for them. Maybe not the majority of US citizens, but enough to create the demand.

There can be no "exaggeration" of the emphases of "demand". Demand is what fuels the whole drug business.

Or can you explain to me where the drugs being grown in the US and smuggled into the country are going if not to a group of people who demand to have the product (as shown buy their purchases of it)?


There is a demand for cheap drugs. If there was more border enforcement and the street price for drugs increased, I'm going to guess the demand would drop. It seems to be working for cigarettes....

k-rico - 5-23-2010 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For instance, if only 2% of Americans were users of illegal drugs, that would represent at least 6 million folks demanding illegal drugs in the USA------THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM
Barry


4 times HUGE actually:

"Percent of persons 12 years of age and over with any illicit drug use in the past month: 8.0% (2007)"

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/druguse.htm


-------if that doesn't represent "societal decay" I don't know what does!!!! Jeeeezo, what a mess!!!! STUPID is too kind a word!!!! Masochistic and suicidal is more like it! Skeeter is right---about a LOT of things.

Barry


I bet most of the illegal drug use is marijuana and that's fast becoming legal. So that will fix much of the societal decay you speak of. ;D

monoloco - 5-23-2010 at 01:04 PM

I wonder what percentage of Nomads are alcoholics?

Bajahowodd - 5-23-2010 at 01:35 PM

I just had a personal experience involving the marijuana issue. A close relative has been treating with a highly respected psychiatrist for bi-polar and psychotic symptoms. The treatment has involved administering several very expensive prescription meds that leave this person in a zombie-like state much of the day. Yesterday, they met with a different psychiatrist who, after examination and history, directed my relative to a doctor who specializes in marijuana. This doctor, it turns out, is a former army physician who was in Desert Storm, and served a tour early on in the Iraq occupation. This doctor is totally convinced that marijuana has myriad applications, and in many cases is a safer and more effective alternative to prescription drugs. He wrote a Rx to my relative, citing different strains for different symptoms.

This is my first close contact to the whole issue, and it will undoubtedly be interesting to observe what happens.

Cypress - 5-23-2010 at 01:57 PM

Bajahowodd, Very interesting. Hope your relative's condition improves. Another reason why the legalization of pot has so much opposition. The drug industry will take a major financial hit.:light:

Bajahowodd - 5-23-2010 at 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Bajahowodd, Very interesting. Hope your relative's condition improves. Another reason why the legalization of pot has so much opposition. The drug industry will take a major financial hit.:light:


Thanks. As for the drug industry, perhaps they wouldn't be so opposed if they were designated to be the purveyors of the legal stuff.

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I wonder what percentage of Nomads are alcoholics?


Tho this is somewhat off the thread subject: What is YOUR definition of "alcoholism"? (a legal substance) I have seen so many definitions that I don't know anymore-----seems to be different depending on many criteria, and a very personal & individual "status". :?:

Barry

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I wonder what percentage of Nomads are alcoholics?






Are you trying to bench me coach?

Packoderm - 5-23-2010 at 02:19 PM

Any discussion of drugs can include alcohol without fear of straying off the topic.

I forgot to include the link to my data:
"For most adults, moderate alcohol use is not harmful. However, nearly 17.6 million adults in the United States are alcoholics or have alcohol problems. Alcoholism is a disease with four main features:

* Craving - a strong need to drink
* Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've begun
* Physical dependence – withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating or shakiness after stopping drinking
* Tolerance - the need to drink greater amounts of alcohol in order to get “high”"

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html

Dueling Links

Bajahowodd - 5-23-2010 at 02:52 PM

Actually, this one supports an increase in alcohol use since 2000; not to mention a (for me) startling statistic about alcohol use among those 12-17 years old.

"Among youths aged 12 to 17, an estimated 17.3 percent used alcohol in the month prior to the survey interview. This rate was higher than the rate of youth alcohol use reported in 2000 (16.4 percent). Of all youths, 10.6 percent were binge drinkers, and 2.5 percent were heavy drinkers. These are roughly the same percentages as those reported in 2000 (10.4 and 2.6 percent, respectively)."

http://ncadistore.samhsa.gov/catalog/facts.aspx?topic=3

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 03:03 PM

Lets speak to the interdependence on cheap labor exported from Mexico so that we American's can have all of our services needs met. Try watching "A day without a Mexican" It's a spoof on how we Americans try to get along for one day without Mexican Labor.
Also let us not leave out the Heroin, Cocaine and Marijuana that We Americans need every day just to get high! It's a huge demand- and no high fence or checking daily on employers laborers ID is going to stifel the demand.

So what do we have here? Where are we going with this?
Anyone got any ideas? Buehler?

Cypress - 5-23-2010 at 03:27 PM

Yea, I've got an idea, illegal aliens aren't the solution, they're the problem.:lol:

Facing Facts

MrBillM - 5-23-2010 at 03:46 PM

Illegal Drugs ARE a HUGE Problem evidenced by the advocates of same here.

In fact, given the indications, Illegal Drug usage may account for the MOST Delusional behavior exhibited by Liberals.

Stamp out the Drug Trade and take a Giant step towards curing the disease of Liberalism ?

It's worth a try.

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by MrBillM]

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Illegal Drugs ARE a HUGE Problem evidenced by the advocates of same here.

In fact, given the indications, Illegal Drug usage may account for the MOST Delusional behavior exhibited by Liberals.

Stamp out the Drug Trade and take a Giant step towards curing the disease of Liberalism ?

It's worth a try.

[Edited on 5-23-2010 by MrBillM]


Cosnservetism is like an illegal drug once you drink the kool aide you cant go back! That is unless your a Senator in a bathroom stall. Or a teleavangelist who enjoys the company of the ladies of the evening! All GOP LOL!!!

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 03:59 PM

I'd like to apoligize to the good people of Arizona. I know there are many of you hard working good people in that State. However, due topassing SB 1070 I will not be visiting your State anymore. Also I will not be buying any products or food that is grown in your State until SB 1070 is repealed.

Signed
Mexicorn

Bajahowodd - 5-23-2010 at 04:07 PM

Mr. Bile- Are you aware of your obsession with liberals? Or at least whatever your personal definition of that is? If you are perfectly comfortable with becoming background noise with a one-note tune, suit yourself. Personally, I've witnessed some very savvy, wry and comical observations from you. But invoking "liberal" on almost any topic is really lazy.

That said, you are not the only one on this forum who throws that term into a discussion on any topic imaginable. I guess folks who have spent decades listening to that comedian Rush Limbaugh have been brainwashed. Limbaugh has admitted that his primary motivation is money; not the myriad issues on which he pontificates. His investment is in his bank account, not his advocacy. In reality, he's laughing to the bank.

At the end of the day, when exchanging ideas and beliefs people draw upon their complex life experiences. Each of us has certain unique experiences. However, there is a vast middle ground upon which everyone who is rational can agree. Using a broad brush to apply an epithetic label is a cheap shot.

Apologies ?

MrBillM - 5-23-2010 at 04:11 PM

Speaking as an EXPERT (or, at least, a Veteran) on the Subject:

Let's not Slander "Working" Girls or those who support their employment.

Those Ladies are performing a far more Vital service and have much higher integrity than MOST Politicians.

Whatever else those TV preachers do, employing and enjoying those services is probably morally superior.

Who watches those guys, anyway ? They rake in all of those Millions and I've never found anyone who admits being a follower or contributor.

It's one of those strange mysteries of life.

Sort of like the guy I met once who said that he usually lost money in Vegas. Given his economic status, I couldn't figure out how he alone was supporting all that Glitz.

Addressing the "Odd" Liberal:

Surely, you Jest ! Me ? Obsessed with Leftist Liberal Scum-Sucking Vile Filth Defiling the Landscape ? Nah !

I Do HATE them, though. Don't ever assume different. It's not an act. They are the Scourge of Society. I'm pleased everytime one of them Checks out. I'm STILL savoring DEAD Ted.


[Edited on 5-23-2010 by MrBillM]

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Any discussion of drugs can include alcohol without fear of straying off the topic.

I forgot to include the link to my data:
"For most adults, moderate alcohol use is not harmful. However, nearly 17.6 million adults in the United States are alcoholics or have alcohol problems. Alcoholism is a disease with four main features:

* Craving - a strong need to drink
* Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've begun
* Physical dependence – withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating or shakiness after stopping drinking
* Tolerance - the need to drink greater amounts of alcohol in order to get “high”"

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html


Whew!!!! that's a relief!!! I don't meet any of those 4 criteria (except maybe #1 just before dinner?), and neither do any of my friends (I don't think). But, I do enjoy a drink or two (sometimes 3 ??), always & only good Canadian Whiskey, in the evening, especially when it is a warm and sweet evening like are now coming about. I gave up beer and wine many years ago---bad for the head. :yes:

Life is good. :spingrin:

Barry

Cypress - 5-23-2010 at 04:13 PM

The good people of Arizona and the majority of the people in the rest of the states (60 to 70 percent) can only say, thanks. Maybe you can spend you money in CA, they need it.:lol:

Saving Calleforny

MrBillM - 5-23-2010 at 04:23 PM

No Worries.

Meg is spending enough.

As for Arizona, the Boycott is likely to show Zip, Zero, Nada effect.

But, We'll see. Don't expect the Libs to EVER admit it, though.

They'll lie about anything.

Barry A. - 5-23-2010 at 04:23 PM

Liberals-----------my only problem with Liberals is-----well----- they are so LIBERAL. It's in their DNA, I am convinced!!! Otherwise it all makes no sense at all, as this thread has proved. It's a "venus and mars" situation.

We just all should live with it as it ain't going away, and that is excepted. But we conservatives can't just let it manifest itself without challenge, and we all challenge in different ways. How boring if we didn't.

Viva la difference (or something like that)

Barry

Packoderm - 5-23-2010 at 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Any discussion of drugs can include alcohol without fear of straying off the topic.

I forgot to include the link to my data:
"For most adults, moderate alcohol use is not harmful. However, nearly 17.6 million adults in the United States are alcoholics or have alcohol problems. Alcoholism is a disease with four main features:

* Craving - a strong need to drink
* Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've begun
* Physical dependence – withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating or shakiness after stopping drinking
* Tolerance - the need to drink greater amounts of alcohol in order to get “high”"

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html


Whew!!!! that's a relief!!! I don't meet any of those 4 criteria (except maybe #1 just before dinner?), and neither do any of my friends (I don't think). But, I do enjoy a drink or two (sometimes 3 ??), always & only good Canadian Whiskey, in the evening, especially when it is a warm and sweet evening like are now coming about. I gave up beer and wine many years ago---bad for the head. :yes:

Life is good. :spingrin:

Barry


I've been guilty of #2 - not wanting to stop once I start.

gnukid - 5-23-2010 at 09:36 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512098,00.html

Homeland Security Frees 27 Illegal Immigrants, Sends Them Back to Work
By Dan Springer

SEATTLE — The Department of Homeland Security freed 27 illegal immigrants arrested during a workplace raid in February and offered them legal work permits, signaling a major departure from the immigration enforcement policy of the Bush administration.

The Feb. 24 raid of an auto parts plant in Bellingham, Wash., netted 28 illegal immigrants. While one was deported, the remaining workers were released from custody and given employment authorization documents, or EADs, in exchange for cooperating with an ongoing investigation of their employer, Yamato Engine Specialists.

The EAD is a temporary work permit most commonly given to people applying for green cards or citizenship. It usually lasts for one year, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.) sources tell FOX News that these work permits will expire when the case against Yamato is closed.

Immigrant rights activists support the move and the new direction Secretary Janet Napolitano is taking the Homeland Security Department with her focus on penalizing employers rather than the immigrants themselves.

"She is crafting and the people in her department are crafting a strategy that could target some people who are abusive and manipulative as employers," said Pramila Jayapal, executive director of the Seattle-based immigrant aid group OneAmerica.


But critics say the softened policy will increase the number of illegal immigrants entering the country.

"The signal that it sends to illegal immigrants is that if you can get here, you're pretty much home free," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

The Bellingham raid was the first and only mass arrest of immigrants since President Obama took office and came as a shock to Napolitano, who ordered a review of the incident the day after.

"I didn't know about it beforehand," she told the House Homeland Security Committee the morning following the raid. "I want to get to the bottom of this as well."

The response from the Department of Homeland Security marks a major shift from the last years of the Bush administration, when workplace arrests of illegals were commonplace.

Criminal arrests of employers who hired illegal immigrants skyrocketed from 25 in 2002 to 1,103 in 2008. The number of deportations jumped from 485 to 5,184 over that same time period. The Obama administration has sought a freeze on immigrant arrests.

Enforcement advocates say Americans should be outraged by the government giving illegal immigrants a right to work when unemployment is so high for documented workers.

Unemployment in Whatcom County, home to the Yamato plant, has risen to 8.1 percent, and in the days after the Yamato raid, more than 150 people applied for the jobs made open by the arrests.

Immigrant groups say the release was a humane act that is keeping families together and allowing them to earn a decent living.

Secretary Napolitano is expected to soon formally announce new guidelines for workplace immigration enforcement.

An I.C.E source in Washington D.C. disputes the claim that this marks a new policy telling FOX News the work permits are issued as an investigative tool to get cooperation from the illegal immigrants.

[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]

Mexicorn - 5-23-2010 at 11:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512098,00.html

Homeland Security Frees 27 Illegal Immigrants, Sends Them Back to Work
By Dan Springer

SEATTLE — The Department of Homeland Security freed 27 illegal immigrants arrested during a workplace raid in February and offered them legal work permits, signaling a major departure from the immigration enforcement policy of the Bush administration.

The Feb. 24 raid of an auto parts plant in Bellingham, Wash., netted 28 illegal immigrants. While one was deported, the remaining workers were released from custody and given employment authorization documents, or EADs, in exchange for cooperating with an ongoing investigation of their employer, Yamato Engine Specialists.

The EAD is a temporary work permit most commonly given to people applying for green cards or citizenship. It usually lasts for one year, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.) sources tell FOX News that these work permits will expire when the case against Yamato is closed.

Immigrant rights activists support the move and the new direction Secretary Janet Napolitano is taking the Homeland Security Department with her focus on penalizing employers rather than the immigrants themselves.

"She is crafting and the people in her department are crafting a strategy that could target some people who are abusive and manipulative as employers," said Pramila Jayapal, executive director of the Seattle-based immigrant aid group OneAmerica.


But critics say the softened policy will increase the number of illegal immigrants entering the country.

"The signal that it sends to illegal immigrants is that if you can get here, you're pretty much home free," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

The Bellingham raid was the first and only mass arrest of immigrants since President Obama took office and came as a shock to Napolitano, who ordered a review of the incident the day after.

"I didn't know about it beforehand," she told the House Homeland Security Committee the morning following the raid. "I want to get to the bottom of this as well."

The response from the Department of Homeland Security marks a major shift from the last years of the Bush administration, when workplace arrests of illegals were commonplace.

Criminal arrests of employers who hired illegal immigrants skyrocketed from 25 in 2002 to 1,103 in 2008. The number of deportations jumped from 485 to 5,184 over that same time period. The Obama administration has sought a freeze on immigrant arrests.

Enforcement advocates say Americans should be outraged by the government giving illegal immigrants a right to work when unemployment is so high for documented workers.

Unemployment in Whatcom County, home to the Yamato plant, has risen to 8.1 percent, and in the days after the Yamato raid, more than 150 people applied for the jobs made open by the arrests.

Immigrant groups say the release was a humane act that is keeping families together and allowing them to earn a decent living.

Secretary Napolitano is expected to soon formally announce new guidelines for workplace immigration enforcement.

An I.C.E source in Washington D.C. disputes the claim that this marks a new policy telling FOX News the work permits are issued as an investigative tool to get cooperation from the illegal immigrants.

[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]










This is really a right step in a good direction.
I am happy to hear this news thanks kid-

[Edited on 5-24-2010 by Mexicorn]

Good News

MrBillM - 5-24-2010 at 09:45 AM

I AGREE that it is GOOD News.

Given current interest and continued positive polling, EVERY News Item which can be exploited to engage and inflame public opinion leading into November is welcome.

The greatest danger is that public interest will wane. Stoking the fires and keeping people angry and involved is vital. Contribute to those groups who are working to keep this issue at the forefront. I am.

I am also looking forward to seeing a multitude of 30-second spots using the appropriate news footage to maintain that involvement.

YES WE CAN BRING ABOUT HOPE AND CHANGE in the coming election.

gnukid - 5-24-2010 at 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn



This is really a right step in a good direction.
I am happy to hear this news thanks kid-

[Edited on 5-24-2010 by Mexicorn]


The point should be made, that this article states that illegals who were arrested where then given legal green cards in order to catch more illegals and their employers, which is the same logic used by National Security whereby they allow and assist in terrorism in order to catch more terrorists, which is why the National Security Head Blair had to resign, apparently, because they were caught redhanded creating the underwear bomber.

The silliness of this is apparent and certainly one can conclude the only real goal is as Bill states to inflame and cause confusion to further the police state goals, not to protect our security or freedom.

[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]

Feeding the GOOD Flame

MrBillM - 5-24-2010 at 10:48 AM

Speaking of which, have you seen the Mexican Newspaper ad showing the Camo-covered Trooper with his Binoculars ? The caption is "In Sonora, WE are watching for people from Arizona".

THIS is Exactly what we need and it's getting decent coverage.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I LOVE it.

BTW, Serpent-Head Alan Colmes earlier defending the Fed statement that they "might" not honor the referrals from AZ, said it made sense because "We don't know if those Illegals were Legally Caught".

Yeah, that line's going to work.

capt. mike - 5-24-2010 at 12:30 PM

hahahahahaha
Alan Combs is such a total twit.
good one Bill.

Another View of the Effects

Bajahowodd - 5-24-2010 at 12:45 PM

Here's a story about a family that is affected by the spirit of the AZ law. It certainly points to the need for immigration reform. Mom is a US citizen, as is the daughter. Another daughter on the way. Dad is illegal, having entered the country some eleven years ago. He holds a steady jjob, and they own their own home.


Deeper Into The Shadows

By Paloma Esquivel, Los Angeles Times

May 24, 2010


Reporting from Phoenix —
The day Arizona's governor signed the strictest immigration law in the country — tasking police with checking the immigration status of those they stop and suspect to be in the country illegally — Maria thought it might be the last straw for her family.

For six years Maria, a U.S. citizen, and her husband, Salvador, who is in the country illegally, have tried to make sure he isn't caught up in a raid or sweep or traffic enforcement operation. To avoid his deportation, the couple takes precautions that, when synthesized, go something like this:

Avoid driving at night. Avoid unnecessary trips — grocery shopping once a week is best.

Stay home. Stay and care for the garden. Enjoy the blueberry bushes and the apricot trees, and mow the lawn. Keep it nice. Try to deflect, as much as possible, their 4-year-old daughter's questions about going to Disneyland.

As a citizen, Maria, 24, doesn't worry about being stopped when she's alone or with her daughter Carina. But her concern for Salvador, 29, has grown over the years, especially after Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio began using his department to enforce federal immigration laws. When the program was essentially adopted on a statewide level, one of Maria's aunts considered canceling her daughter's 8th birthday party to avoid attracting attention.

Other friends and relatives — often mixed families of citizens and illegal immigrants — decided to put off repairs to their homes to save money in case a family member got deported. Like many of them, Maria wondered: Is it time to leave Arizona?

Dreams vs. realities

Maria and Salvador met as teenagers. In the evenings Maria played basketball at the middle school where Salvador took English classes. (They asked that their full names not be used because of his status.) She never thought to ask about his legal situation when they started dating, and by the time she learned he'd crossed the border illegally when he was 17, they'd already made plans for a life together.

Maria, who came to the U.S. legally when she was 6, became a citizen at 18, thinking Salvador would easily obtain legal status once they were married. They wed that same year at a Phoenix courthouse, but set a date for a wedding a year later at El Santuario del Señor de La Piedad, a centuries-old Catholic church that towers over the couple's shared hometown in La Piedad, in the Mexican state of Michoacan.

But they never made it.

Soon after they were married, they met with an immigration attorney who told them Salvador would have to return to Mexico to apply for residency. If he did, the attorney said, it was possible he'd be barred from the U.S. for 10 years.

They decided they couldn't risk such a separation. Two years later, Carina was born. The two of them, newborn in tow, realized Salvador's legal status was probably not going to change, and they went about putting down roots.

Maria settled into her job as a teacher's assistant in a class for severely autistic preschoolers. Salvador worked maintenance at a golf course, and he got out early enough to pick up his daughter from day care. In January, they had a church wedding at Most Holy Trinity Catholic Parish in north Phoenix. Carina carried her mother's train.

In the meantime, Arizona began taking steps to make it an inhospitable state for those who came to the country illegally: the county sheriff dispatched his deputies to search for illegal immigrants, a law was passed to bar such immigrants from receiving government services and the state sought to shut down businesses that hired illegal workers.

Maria and Salvador learned to live, somewhat, with the worry.

When Salvador leaves for work in the morning, Maria gives him a clean set of clothes to change into for the drive home so he won't look like a laborer. When he has a weekend shift and can't travel with his usual carpool, Maria wakes up before he leaves at 4:30 a.m., and together they pray that he comes back.

The rules for driving are clear: Check the truck — make sure the signals and lights work. A friend was once pulled over by deputies for having a broken light on his license plate. He was deported shortly after.

Drive carefully: use turn signals, make complete stops. Don't put unnecessary adornments on the truck. Never exceed the speed limit.

In August, they bought their first home, a three-bedroom bank-owned fixer-upper. They spent much of their time mending it and caring for the huge yard, with its fruit trees and flowers. When Salvador's father died this year, Salvador couldn't attend the funeral. So they planted an apricot tree in his honor.

Maria became involved in a church group that advocates for a variety of causes, such as education and immigrant rights. The information she gets at immigrant rights sessions with the Valley Interfaith Project, she says, helps her when she is overwhelmed by anxiety.

Three months ago, Maria and Salvador learned she was pregnant. They are expecting a sister for Carina in July.

Along comes SB 1070

It was just after 1:30 on April 23, and Maria was at work when she got a text message from her mother: Gov. Jan Brewer had signed SB 1070 into law. She ran through scenarios in her mind: We'll move to California, she thought. We'll rent our house and get an apartment. My family in California can help Salvador get a job.

At home, she called an uncle, who lives in Armona, a tiny Central Valley town in Kings County. He'd heard the news, he said, and was prepared for her and her family to stay at his home until they were settled.

When Salvador came home, Maria told him of her plans. His response was clear and unhesitant. He has a good job here, he said. Who knows if he could get one in California? What if they were stopped by sheriff's deputies on the way out of town? What if he were put in a detention facility far from home?

After a few days, Maria decided she agreed with her husband. Leaving would be like running away from her home, she said, and she doesn't want to do that.

They've decided to stay in Arizona and wait it out, taking precautions as always.

The aunt who was planning her daughter's birthday party canceled it. And though Maria knows the law isn't scheduled to go into effect until late July, she still finds herself switching to English when she and her husband walk past police officers. Salvador's English is limited, so he just nods as she speaks.

Mostly, they stay home more now, Maria says. And when the worry becomes overwhelming, she goes out to the garden and trims the hedges.

paloma.esquivel@latimes.com

Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times

capt. mike - 5-24-2010 at 12:55 PM

this is what i have to go through to LEGALLY leave and re enter MY OWN COUNTRY each time by private plane - and i adhere.
i have NO patience for illegals and others who do not follow the laws.

from BBP today:

" One of our members was contacted by the CBP about five months after a short trip to Mexico. The member was told that he was subject to a US$10,000 fine as their reports only show a return eAPIS on file. They had no record of an outbound eAPIS (from the US). The good thing is that the member did file his eAPIS outbound and inbound and the better news is that he had copies of both. He responded to the CBP’s letter by providing copies of both eAPIS and the matter was dropped.
The lesson is that it is critical that you print out your eAPIS request and, when you get back home, file it away with the other paper work you save for each trip. Along with the eAPIS, information saved should include Mexican flight plans, fuel receipts, landing fee / parking fees, etc. "

Cypress - 5-24-2010 at 01:29 PM

When name calling fails to silence their critics liberals roll out the good old " sob story". Always the same game, name calling, sympathy bids. 'Bout time to toss out some disproportional comparisons.:yes:

mtgoat666 - 5-24-2010 at 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
this is what i have to go through to LEGALLY leave and re enter MY OWN COUNTRY each time by private plane - and i adhere.
i have NO patience for illegals and others who do not follow the laws.

from BBP today:

blah, blah, b;ah

------

Come on....you know you have always wanted to...

info at screamingairlines dot com
http://www.cafepress.com/n7369p

Come ply the friendly Baja skies with us!
30 years of safe adventure travel logged - no whiners, no sniveling and no fooling!


:lol::lol: you signature says "...no whiners, no sniveling..." but you posts about planes across the border sound like whining and sniveling :lol::lol:

capt. mike - 5-24-2010 at 02:39 PM

"you (sic) signature says "...no whiners, no sniveling..." but you (sic) posts about planes across the border sound like whining and sniveling"

not at all. I didn't complain about a thing - i simply stated that there is protocol that i must follow, which i do.
the further point being i have to do it so others should as well - others being the illegals who sneak into our soverign nation sans papers or applications for them.

is this all you have??

i should amend the tag to state no goats...:lol::lol::lol::lol:
to be fair - no dogs either although i get asked all the time if "we may bring Fluffy?" answer always hell no, no pets.:lol::lol::lol:

Tears for Maria

MrBillM - 5-24-2010 at 03:35 PM

And Salvador.

Tugs at the heart.

Or not.

But, in any case, it's the same thing I challenged a spokesman (and author) for the "Open" Immigration argument back in 1995 while attending a seminar on the subject at Claremont College.

The two featured opposing protagonists had both written current books on the subject. One promoting unfettered immigration, the other actually calling for a moratorium on ALL immigration. The two books were startling in their opposite formats. The "immigration is good" guy had put together a bunch of "Salvador and Maria" type anecdotes. No stats. Just Heart-warming studies of those who achieved success despite the perils of illegal existence.

Typically, when I challenged him that I was sure I could come up with a negative anecdote for each positive one he noted and that the ONLY basis for making a decision should be one based on actual numbers, he responded with a programmed blurb on "Heart, Compassion, blah, blah" without addressing the question.

Bajahowodd - 5-24-2010 at 04:24 PM

Nice to know what a big heart you have. I'm guessing that there are probably tens of thousands of families in the same fix. recall, if you will that Salvador crossed at age 17; a minor; a kid. He managed to make a life here.

What really burns me is that those advocating a zero tolerance program on immigration constantly carp on the idea that the immigrants are a financial drain on social services, while not paying taxes. As I said, we have uncounted numbers of mixed families who are paying taxes and are not on welfare.

In Salvador's case( he was 17 when he crossed), even the US Supreme court has recently drawn a distinction between adults and minors as respects punishment. How can you coldly suggest that someone with a job, owning a home(paying property tax) and to soon have a second child should be subjected to exile for up to ten years?

Packoderm - 5-24-2010 at 06:19 PM

What it all boils down to is that we don't want workers that accept lower wages to drop our overall pay-scale to down towards Mexico's level. We don't want more vocations to become jobs "that only Mexicans will do."

wessongroup - 5-24-2010 at 06:27 PM

Was just up in the States this weekend.. and the United States Census takes had been by the house a number of times and wanted to interview me and the wife..

He came by on SUNDAY...

He wanted to know:
1 How many people lived in our house
2 Did I still work

He told me, that in most cases, there are multiple families living in one home... but, will not admit the true facts of the situation .... so all information that he is collecting is really not very good....

Good luck

toneart - 5-25-2010 at 05:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Was just up in the States this weekend.. and the United States Census takes had been by the house a number of times and wanted to interview me and the wife..

He came by on SUNDAY...

He wanted to know:
1 How many people lived in our house
2 Did I still work

He told me, that in most cases, there are multiple families living in one home... but, will not admit the true facts of the situation .... so all information that he is collecting is really not very good....

Good luck


The questionaire even asks, "Does your house have a mortgage?" I really think that is overstepping into our privacy.

When I arrived back at my California home two weeks ago and collected my mail, the Census form was there. I filled it out and sent it in. Then later in the week a Census Taker came to the door. She was sent and insisted on filling one out for me. I told her that I had already mailed it in and that she must put duplicate clearly, at the top of the form.

Cypress - 5-25-2010 at 05:41 AM

Regarding the census form. Only answered the question, "number of people in the household?". Expect the govt. already has the information requested on the rest of the questions.

Answering Up

MrBillM - 5-25-2010 at 09:42 AM

I left off the telephone number and included an explanation. Since the stated purpose of the Tel No. was for "Any answers they didn't understand", I explained that only an Idiot wouldn't understand my answers and I had no time to deal with Mental Defectives. I also told them that should they need to make a visit, they could ignore the fence signs which said "Believe in Life after Death ? Knock here and find out" since they'd "probably" be OK.

Which is sort of a light-hearted joke since I don't usually put up the signs more than once-in-awhile as the mood strikes me. Usually on a Saturday when the Jehovahs are circulating. Doesn't stop them though so it's kind of pointless. Ticks my wife off.

Whether or not, they will show up (or have shown up), quien sabe ?

LancairDriver - 5-25-2010 at 10:32 AM

Would it be inappropriate for the US to apply the same rules and standards for citizenship as Mexico requires for a US citizen to become a Mexican Citizen?

Check out California Congressman Tom McClintock's take on the immigration situation.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDo36xPYgE - 95k

mtgoat666 - 5-25-2010 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Would it be inappropriate for the US to apply the same rules and standards for citizenship as Mexico requires for a US citizen to become a Mexican Citizen?


wouldn't it be easier if we just annnexed Mexico and made it 51st state? that way we could all have the same laws, and our southers border would have shorter length needing monitoring; and nomads would ask fewer questions about visas and property ownership, and expat scoflaws would have to register their vehicles.

[Edited on 5-25-2010 by mtgoat666]

gnukid - 5-25-2010 at 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Would it be inappropriate for the US to apply the same rules and standards for citizenship as Mexico requires for a US citizen to become a Mexican Citizen?


wouldn't it be easier if we just annnexed Mexico and made it 51st state? that way we could all have the same laws, and our southers border would have shorter length needing monitoring; and nomads would ask fewer questions about visas and property ownership, and expat scoflaws would have to register their vehicles.

[Edited on 5-25-2010 by mtgoat666]


Even better, make it the 105th state of the global banking kingdom of King William the global leader of the monarchy and king of all slaves. Long live the King!

Cypress - 5-25-2010 at 11:20 AM

And then they become incoherent!:lol::lol:

Bajahowodd - 5-25-2010 at 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

wouldn't it be easier if we just annnexed Mexico and made it 51st state? that way we could all have the same laws, and our southers border would have shorter length needing monitoring; and nomads would ask fewer questions about visas and property ownership, and expat scoflaws would have to register their vehicles.

[Edited on 5-25-2010 by mtgoat666]



Before or after Puerto Rico? :lol:

Crazy as it sounds, the idea about truncating the Southern border actually makes sense.

Looney Tunes Ideas Never Die

MrBillM - 5-25-2010 at 04:11 PM

Although I have to admit that Dumb Idea hasn't surfaced for awhile.

Cypress - 5-25-2010 at 04:25 PM

The US has announced that national guard troops will be sent to the border to assist the fed, state, and local authorities. :biggrin:

Barry A. - 5-25-2010 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Crazy as it sounds, the idea about truncating the Southern border actually makes sense.


"truncating"----the act of cutting off. So, you advocate the "cutting off" of the southern border, or do you mean cutting off "at" the southern border? That would leave either Mexico to just drift off, or North America north of the Mexican border to drift off. Not clear to me what you are accomplishing here, but it would make the border very difficult to cross, I will admit. Problem solved?? :P :lol:

Barry

k-rico - 5-25-2010 at 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
The US has announced that national guard troops will be sent to the border to assist the fed, state, and local authorities. :biggrin:


Obama authorized 1,200 troops and has asked Congess for an additional 1/2 billion dollars for strengthening the border.

The WH Devil and His Details

MrBillM - 5-26-2010 at 08:47 AM

Whether or not this is simply a pander of less substance that it even appears, will become apparent soon enough.

In deploying 1/5 the Guard troops that GWB deployed, it has been said already that they're basically supplying clerical help. Arguments can be made that they WILL provide some help by freeing up other "Enforcement" personnel, but time and further information will tell us what is happening other than politics.

tripledigitken - 5-26-2010 at 09:09 AM

This would not be happening if not for the AZ law!!!!!!!


In business it is called management by reaction.

bajaguy - 5-26-2010 at 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
The US has announced that national guard troops will be sent to the border to assist the fed, state, and local authorities. :biggrin:


Obama authorized 1,200 troops and has asked Congess for an additional 1/2 billion dollars for strengthening the border.





CBP already has 3 Predator B model UAV's and one ground control station at a cost of $12.5 million on the Arizona border.

k-rico - 5-26-2010 at 03:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
The US has announced that national guard troops will be sent to the border to assist the fed, state, and local authorities. :biggrin:


Obama authorized 1,200 troops and has asked Congess for an additional 1/2 billion dollars for strengthening the border.





CBP already has 3 Predator B model UAV's and one ground control station at a cost of $12.5 million on the Arizona border.


Those things are cool, I have a buddy who flies missions in Iraq and Afghanistan from a Navy facility in Patuxent River, Maryland. A day at the office.

k-rico - 5-26-2010 at 03:13 PM

BTW, the new troops at the border are for the War on Drugs, not the War on Illegals. Shhhh, don't tell the zonies.

And...

Dave - 5-26-2010 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
BTW, the new troops at the border are for the War on Drugs, not the War on Illegals. Shhhh, don't tell the zonies.


They are to be used for logistical support and surveillance. What's your best guess as to whether they'll be locked and loaded? ;D

surebought - 5-26-2010 at 03:45 PM

I don't know where I stand on this issue. After finishing with Mexican Imigration after 15 years, I know it from the other side too. I still can't own property in my own name in Mexico in the forbidden zone. Any Mexican illegal who has the money can buy property in the US right now from the get go. I think this is unfair. What the US should really worry about is that the going could get a lot worse in Mexico violence wise. A very large percentage of the Mexican population is prone to mischief. If it does 30% of the Mexican population could try and succeed in crossing the border as refugees. These would be the smart - ambitous segment of society; people with money. The people with passports would cross and just stay forever. 75 million people. They would leave Mexico with an even more depleted gene pool. Only women and the zombies will be left to re-populate the Republica is some sort of Stone Age atmosphere. But who really cares that much about any of this. Most Americans spend their time thinking about beating an electronic slot machine. They don't want to work. They shouldn't worry so much about the risk of losing their trailers and their SSI checks to a bunch of Mexicans who really can get America's job done. LOL

National Guard Non-Enforcement

MrBillM - 5-26-2010 at 03:47 PM

No Lock and Loaded Weekend Warriors.

Clerical, Logistical support staff no different from GWB's effort.

Except, of course, his was 6,000. This is 1,200.

Perfume on the Pig.

Yep

Dave - 5-26-2010 at 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
No Lock and Loaded Weekend Warriors.


And the cartels know this. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the Guard for target practice. :rolleyes:

Whoa!

Bajahowodd - 5-26-2010 at 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by surebought
A very large percentage of the Mexican population is prone to mischief. Most Americans spend their time thinking about beating an electronic slot machine. They don't want to work. They shouldn't worry so much about the risk of losing their trailers and their SSI checks to a bunch of Mexicans who really can get America's job done. LOL


LOL, maybe. But, probably not. I cannot help thinking that you are both profiling and stereotyping both Mexicans and US citizens quite unfairly. Your post is really not helpful to the debate.

Bajahowodd - 5-26-2010 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
No Lock and Loaded Weekend Warriors.

Clerical, Logistical support staff no different from GWB's effort.

Except, of course, his was 6,000. This is 1,200.

Perfume on the Pig.


Would anyone ever expect anything but criticism of the present administration to emanate from that rusty old single-wide?:fire:

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