BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

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azucena - 4-6-2014 at 07:03 AM

I seem to recall that his wallet was found: Was there any money in it? Do we know if his passport was in the vehicle?

As stated , the pictures on his camera are key, not only for location but dates.'

It would seem if the car had only been there a week or so, that the battery would have some juice, unless maybe the radio, lights etc were left on..

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 07:03 AM

This is turning into one of those "restaurant mysteries."
"Maybe this?"
"No. Maybe that."
"More drinks, waitress....and hurry. I'm only about two martinis away from solving this thing."
Where's Charlie Chan when you need him?
Actually.....where's DNA science when you need it?

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 08:09 AM

This is the advantage we have now in this day and age Dennis to be able to communicate and have everyone included and express their views no matter how bizarre some of them may be. I worked on serial murder cases over 25 years ago including the Randy Kraft and Nightstalker killings when there was no internet. All of the information I had access to was police/district attorney reports and the news media. Would it would have helped my investigation with a public forum? It would have in a BIG way.

Gary wallet was not found but his passport was in the vehicle.

After the rancher made his identity known to the Pattons and communication was started I made contact with the ranchers family and they were more than willing for an interview however I nor the family will release his name on any forum. If and when the search is conducted I'm sure this information will be learned by those involved and he said he would help.He even said those in the search could camp at his ranch. They do not want his name reveled right now.

The rancher was interviewed in person by me and this man and his family are very nice people and they appreciate the position the Pattons are in. There was no hesitation when asked to be interviewed for further information.

Santiago's question regarding my interview technique and how I was able to get this information from the rancher was very easy. He is the kind of person that is very approachable and forthcoming. He has nothing to hide and feels the pain of the family. Most of my investigations are in Mexico and the people here, I find, are easier to talk with then those in the U.S.

After I posted last re: if it was possible that someone staged the scene where the vehicle was found Janene was also on the board and posted the exact same thing within a few minutes of each other. This is what is needed to have your thoughts and concerns expressed no matter how strange you think it may be. Whenever I accept an investigation from a client one of the first things I tell them is to keep in contact with me and challenge my reports with questions. Even though I have been doing this kind of work for more than 40 years I need and want all the help I can get. I don't know everything and don't come off that I do.

Also I want everyone to know that when Bajaguy and I made the trip as far as BOLA to attempt to locate Gary last October I was compensated for my efforts however that was just for this trip and nothing more. I have told the family that I won't accept any more money for my efforts even though they offered. Kim, Garys ex-wife, Sheila, Garys sister, and Mel, Garys brother in law and Sheila's husband are extremely nice people and read every post here on the forum and have been blown away by your concern and help.

Thanks-Thats all I can say. You guys are GREAT!

EnsenadaDr - 4-6-2014 at 08:33 AM

You know Dan, I feel the same way. When patients come to me with a question I listen to them carefully. Why? Because no matter how much experience you have in a field of expertise you can always learn more. I have learned that the nurses aides have more to tell a nurse about a patient and the nurses should listen to them carefully. The nurse knows more about a patient than a doctor because they spend more time with the patient. And a patient knows more about his condition than sometimes a Doctor does. Thus, to get the root of a problem, you have to be open minded. The biggest mistake is to put someone down and call them an amateur when in fact, as you have mentioned, they can often give you crucial clues to the crime or even solve a health problem than no one else can or could solve.

Ateo - 4-6-2014 at 08:36 AM

Lizard Lips, you are invaluable!! Thanks for doing this.

latina - 4-6-2014 at 08:37 AM

Were there expiration dates on any of the food items that were in the cooler?

Hook - 4-6-2014 at 08:41 AM

How likely is it that Gary drove around up to the week before the vehicle was discovered and either:

1- never saw the posters? or

2-saw them and chose not to communicate with his family?

I think number one is very unlikely for the time period he was missing. He would have had to come back into a town of some size for provisions. And we can't answer #2, only the family probably can. But if that is unlikely, in their opinion, then the chances of foul play increase, in my mind.

One possible scenario that might explain why the vehicle did not seem to have it's contents stolen; Gary got stuck, left the car with his wallet and primary keys and drinking water and walked back the way he came in for help. He's been in Baja many times; this is what you do when you are stuck, you stick to the roads. You dont head out across the hills. Someone nefarious came across him quite a ways from his vehicle while he was walking for help and may have abducted him/committed violence on him..........but, ultimately, did not know where his vehicle had been left. If you have just committed a serious crime, finding the vehicle is a bit like returning to the scene of the crime; very risky.

I havent read through all the posts in a while; maybe this scenario has already been proposed. But it would explain why a nearby search did not turn him up and it would explain why the vehicle was left there, relatively undisturbed. I think someone who might have committed violence on him probably did it for financial gain and wouldnt have let any valuable items remain in the vehicle if they had staged a break-down in that area, to throw people off their scent.

I agree with LL that this site can be of great benefit to this investigation, if it is allowed to happen. Based on these latest posts from LL, the family must now condone this type of speculation. Tremendous value in this; if they can stand up to the grief that reading some scenarios will produce.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Hook]

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
This is the advantage we have now in this day and age Dennis to be able to communicate and have everyone included and express their views no matter how bizarre some of them may be.

There's a word for it, Dan:

Brainstorming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorming

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

Gary wallet was not found

Which comes as no surprise to me since I've always carried my wallet in my hip pocket.

Hook - 4-6-2014 at 08:50 AM

One other thing; wasnt it reported by some Nomads that posters that were put up were all taken down, when they returned? Were they put up in a fashion that they could have blown down or is it possible that someone connected with the disappearance wanted them down? Is there a specific area where the posters seemed to have disappeared while others remained up? It could turn up a locale where a potential perp might frequent.

Barry A. - 4-6-2014 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You know Dan, I feel the same way. When patients come to me with a question I listen to them carefully. Why? Because no matter how much experience you have in a field of expertise you can always learn more. I have learned that the nurses aides have more to tell a nurse about a patient and the nurses should listen to them carefully. The nurse knows more about a patient than a doctor because they spend more time with the patient. And a patient knows more about his condition than sometimes a Doctor does. Thus, to get the root of a problem, you have to be open minded. The biggest mistake is to put someone down and call them an amateur when in fact, as you have mentioned, they can often give you crucial clues to the crime or even solve a health problem than no one else can or could solve.

Good points, Doctor.

Barry

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 09:07 AM

Good thought Hook. I received information that some posters were taken down in and around San Quintin but it just may have been from having them blown off or actually someone taking them down is another question. In El Rosario and the Catavina area not only Bajaguy and I but Brian inundated these stores, hotels, power poles as well as some of you.

Latina, your thought about the expiration dates on the orange juice is something I also thought of and if this is still in the ice chest when the vehicle is recovered it will be checked. Thanks- I asked the rancher if the water from the melted ice in the ice chest was cool to the touch and he said no.

I also have concerns about if Gary did in fact see the posters and why he didn't call.

Another thing I forgot to mention was that the vehicle had 3/4 of a tank of gas when discovered. I will ask the family if they can search his personal belongings in Orange County to see if there was a record of oil changes and the mileage. I would assume he went to a mechanic prior to leaving to have the 4 Runner checked out. I always have my car in top shape before a long journey.

According to the family there was also a small tool box that he took with him. I also need to ask about the shovel and rake if that was part of his belongings.

latina - 4-6-2014 at 09:32 AM

What Hook said makes sense and made me think of news from around 2011. The Mexican army discovered the largest marijuana farm ever, in the middle of the dry desert only a few kilometres off the highway around San Quintin. Could a person looking for help wander too close to something they weren't welcome to see?

mtgoat666 - 4-6-2014 at 09:34 AM

Sounds like no body found, foul play suspected, no on-the-ground investigation occurring, internet agatha christies developing questions and theories,....
Do any of you see anything missing here?

Btw, my own agatha christie observations,... who drives dusty roads with back window open? People that love inside of car coated in dust? (I seem to recall flyer said car has roof rack). Sounds like lots of local ranchers around that area, and I suspect they remember strangers cars coming/going, anybody bother asking around? I suspect foul play perp would be a local or temp laborer, look at local meth heads that would kill a hiker for a high,...

Anywho, the family needs to go down there and beat the bushes a turn over stones,.... Doubtful the authorities will do any investigating in absence of activity, noise and political pressure from family,...

willardguy - 4-6-2014 at 09:41 AM

I have the same vehicle, the key to unlock the doors and the ignition key are different, this would explain the ignition key being IN the vehicle and the door key hidden outside the car, this is what I do. im stiil curious how the rancher gained access with the car showing no signs of forced entry? did the rancher seek and find the hide-a-key? :?:

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 09:54 AM

Every single ranch in the area needs to be contacted and more posters need to be placed in Catavina and surrounding areas.

As far as the key that the rancher found under the container of coins between the two front seats I don't know if it was just the ignition key. Also need to find out if there are any signs of forced entry and I need to ask the rancher how he was able to gain entry with the car locked.

Mexitron - 4-6-2014 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
From the description here is where the car was found.

Or - with all the "approx" distances - perhaps here?:

http://goo.gl/maps/U2WUo

Don't see any reason why a surfer would be going onto little side roads like that, and even then going off the side road itself. Unless he thought there was a shortcut down the Lazaro drainage to the beach....its a huge sandy wash downstream, easy to drive through, but not where he was at I imagine.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
The Mexican army discovered the largest marijuana farm ever, in the middle of the dry desert only a few kilometres off the highway around San Quintin.

Like, they didn't know it was there.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Don't see any reason why a surfer would be going onto little side roads like that, and even then going off the side road itself.

I think he was on an adventure....taking the "road less travelled," so to say.

wiltonh - 4-6-2014 at 10:25 AM

With a surf board sticking out the back window, the vehicle was not fully locked up. There was probably room on one side or the other of the board to get to a door unlock.

As a windsurfer, we just pull a batten from a sail and use it to unlock some other door. A long thin stick would probably work just as well.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window,

It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks.

willardguy - 4-6-2014 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window,

It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks.

(thats an old photo, the rack had been added for this trip). with the back window down only a few inches I doubt the rancher could have gained access but I suppose anythings possible!

David K - 4-6-2014 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
What Hook said makes sense and made me think of news from around 2011. The Mexican army discovered the largest marijuana farm ever, in the middle of the dry desert only a few kilometres off the highway around San Quintin. Could a person looking for help wander too close to something they weren't welcome to see?

They use San Quintin as a reference point, but that pot farm was 80 miles southeast from San Quintin and nearer to San Agustin. If there was a pot farm in the area, I think the rancher would know that.

David K - 4-6-2014 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
How likely is it that Gary drove around up to the week before the vehicle was discovered and either:

1- never saw the posters? or

2-saw them and chose not to communicate with his family?

I think number one is very unlikely for the time period he was missing. He would have had to come back into a town of some size for provisions. And we can't answer #2, only the family probably can. But if that is unlikely, in their opinion, then the chances of foul play increase, in my mind.

One possible scenario that might explain why the vehicle did not seem to have it's contents stolen; Gary got stuck, left the car with his wallet and primary keys and drinking water and walked back the way he came in for help. He's been in Baja many times; this is what you do when you are stuck, you stick to the roads. You dont head out across the hills. Someone nefarious came across him quite a ways from his vehicle while he was walking for help and may have abducted him/committed violence on him..........but, ultimately, did not know where his vehicle had been left. If you have just committed a serious crime, finding the vehicle is a bit like returning to the scene of the crime; very risky.

I havent read through all the posts in a while; maybe this scenario has already been proposed. But it would explain why a nearby search did not turn him up and it would explain why the vehicle was left there, relatively undisturbed. I think someone who might have committed violence on him probably did it for financial gain and wouldnt have let any valuable items remain in the vehicle if they had staged a break-down in that area, to throw people off their scent.

I agree with LL that this site can be of great benefit to this investigation, if it is allowed to happen. Based on these latest posts from LL, the family must now condone this type of speculation. Tremendous value in this; if they can stand up to the grief that reading some scenarios will produce.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Hook]

If he was a seasoned Baja traveler, and using a 2WD to get through sandy roads, he would have known to DEFLATE the tires to get unstuck... Something not adding up, unless he was not of sound mind when he got stuck. That was a long way off the road to Canoas just for a camping spot or potty break? Lizard Lips is the best asset here for figuring this out!

TMW - 4-6-2014 at 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Another thing I forgot to mention was that the vehicle had 3/4 of a tank of gas when discovered.

That tells me he probably filled up in El Rosario. If he got gas at Catavina the gas people should have ID'd him from the posters.

Also as to why he would pull off there. I do it all the time when I camp along a road. I find a seldom used trail and pull off away from the main road so as not to be seen. I figure Gary did it and got stuck and probably when for help.

monoloco - 4-6-2014 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window,

It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks.

(thats an old photo, the rack had been added for this trip). with the back window down only a few inches I doubt the rancher could have gained access but I suppose anythings possible!

The flyer that was posted at the beginning of this thread clearly indicated that the vehicle would have a red surfboard hanging out of the back window.

willardguy - 4-6-2014 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

this is a sketchy area to say the least, our last trip out from punta canoas coming off the mountain top, where the decommissioned runway is, we came down the hill and found a new black sub with full limo tint just parked off the side of the road, nothing around for miles, like out of a movie. very creepy indeed! sure, could have been a ranchers.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
we came down the hill and found a new black sub with full limo tint just parked off the side of the road, nothing around for miles, like out of a movie. very creepy indeed! sure, could have been a ranchers.

Maybe the bad guys were in there polishing each other's weapon. :lol:

willardguy - 4-6-2014 at 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Maybe the bad guys were in there polishing each other's weapon. :lol:

this is my weapon this is my gun......... :lol:

BornFisher - 4-6-2014 at 12:05 PM

Any resourceful person can get into a vehicle with a 2" opening.
Doubtful there was a forced entry, here. Why break into a car, leave items of value and then relock the car?
I really think if he was murdered, it was not for robbery, but to protect something. A robber would have offered help, gone back to the stuck vehicle, and waited for his chance.
A body dumped in the desert would attract buzzards. Ranchers with stock would investigate. If the body was buried, coyotes would dig it up and then the buzzards would appear. Again ranchers would investigate.
The best potential for clues are the cameras. Was he a avid picture taker as are most who travel with 2 expensive cameras? Who has the cameras? Did the camera record the dates of the photos? Who appears in the pics? Where were they taken? The old who, what, when, why, where?

Skipjack Joe - 4-6-2014 at 12:11 PM

Someone earlier posted a Sherlock Homes quote that usually the truth is the most obvious one.

If he was digging his car out he was not locked out. The car must start to dig into the sand. It's likely that he went for help with the intention of coming back to the vehicle if he did not find it. He may have actually intended to go to the very ranch that found him to get help.

If he camped in an arroyo with a lot of vegetation the rancher may just not have seen it during his trips up the canyon. A gps location of the car could help us see just how open was the area where the car was found. The rancher is just speculating on how the car had been there. He himself says that.

The circumstances surrounding the found vehicle doesn't sound like foul play on the surface - the excavation, the camera, the money. It could have been planted, but the more straightforward answer is that it was just an accident and that Gary is still in the area.

My guess is that he was found in this arroyo with the ranch just south of it. But we'll soon know.

29°41'44.85"N 114°53'43.17"W

BajaNomad - 4-6-2014 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Also as to why he would pull off there. I do it all the time when I camp along a road. I find a seldom used trail and pull off away from the main road so as not to be seen.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

One possible scenario that might explain why the vehicle did not seem to have it's contents stolen; Gary got stuck, left the car with his wallet and primary keys and drinking water and walked back the way he came in for help. He's been in Baja many times; this is what you do when you are stuck, you stick to the roads. You dont head out across the hills.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Someone nefarious...

Doubtful. Did someone say there were mountain lions in this region?

tripledigitken - 4-6-2014 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

or never used his ATM after checking out of Jardines?

However, the vehicle, the way it was described, does appear to have been left by the owner. Or a very clever thief.

The rancher's comments do leave the impression that the vehicle would have been spotted within weeks where it was left.

The last images on the cameras, and/or images on memory cards found in the Toyota will say a lot.

Ken

I feel so sorry for his relatives having to sort this mystery out.

BajaNomad - 4-6-2014 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BornFisher

As Sherlock said "the simplest explanation, is usually the answer", or something like that.

Perhaps, when a man has special knowledge and special powers like my own, it rather encourages him to seek a complex explanation when a simpler one is at hand.

- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Classic joke:

Quote:

Sherlock Holmes and his sidekick Watson go on a camping trip. After sharing a few bottles of Pacifico, they retire for the night.

At about 3 AM, Holmes nudges Watson and says, “Watson, look up into the sky and tell me what you see?”

Watson said, “I see millions of stars.”

Holmes asks, “And, what does that tell you?”

Watson replies, “Astronomically, it tells me there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Theologically, it tells me that whatever made all of this is beyond human comprehension. Horologically, it tells me that it’s about 3 AM. Meteorologically, it tells me that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you, Holmes?”

Holmes retorts, “Watson you idiot, someone stole our tent.”

The simplest explanation is always the most likely.

- Agatha Christie

David K - 4-6-2014 at 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
...

My guess is that he was found in this arroyo with the ranch just south of it. But we'll soon know.

29°41'44.85"N 114°53'43.17"W

Per that waypoint, you are over 10 miles north and on a different road than the one the car was found next to?

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 12:46 PM

Since the rancher said to me that he was certain the vehicle was not there in early December and that other ranchers would definitely traverse this area on a regular basis looking for their cattle leads me to believe that the rancher may be correct however the issue with the battery being dead for also has me confused.

I just receive photos of the vehicle from the family that will be sent to David to post. I still don't know how to download photos and post but then again I still can't program my VCR. The photos were taken at the Catavina Police impound yard after they towed it there from the ranchers property. The photos were taken by the son of Gary.

The cameras will help for sure. He was an avid photographer so I assume the photos, or lack of them, will tell us a lot.

According to the rancher the local wildlife does include Mountain Lions and Coyotes. He also said there are a lot of Rattle snakes.

Gary was a surfer however he also had intentions to camp out and I assume it didn't necessarily mean on the beach.

Hook - 4-6-2014 at 01:14 PM

Mountain lion attacks are rare.

Human accidents are more common, like a fall or something. Human attacks are probably more common than mountain lion attacks.

Holmes and Agatha would agree with me.

azucena - 4-6-2014 at 01:16 PM

I know this may be way dumb, but I have a 4 Runner, and you cannot start the vehicle unless the clutch is fully depressed, unless you push a button: clutch start cancel . I don't know if Gary's was a standard or automatic, or if it had this feature. BUT if it does and if the rancher tried to start the vehicle without depressing the clutch, it won't start, my point being are we SURE the battery was dead?

6 Photos from Lizard Lips

David K - 4-6-2014 at 01:16 PM

azucena - 4-6-2014 at 01:23 PM

Mountain Lion attacks are way for sure, especially for a loin to attack a healthy adult. If the person is compromised in some way, survival of the fittest takes over. I personally doubt a lion attack myself, but a rattlesnake bite is not out of the question. and if he was injured etc in some way he would have been more vulnerable to being taken advantage of by someone of the human species.

azucena - 4-6-2014 at 01:26 PM

Was the hubcap missing when he left on his trip?

Justbozo - 4-6-2014 at 01:26 PM

What if...
Dead battery...maybe not so new, maybe many engine starts between digging with little run time to recharge battery, very hot weather hard on the battery.
Locked doors...power locks? A very weak battery will still operate locks. Vehicle with power locks and dead battery is much harder to get into than weak battery that will work locks but not crank the engine.
Maybe it wouldn't start anymore, stuck, gathered water and started walking for help.

My biggest queston is where was he/4 Runner since September?

He has not been found near the site or along the roadways that he may have walked out on. I would think the ranchers of the area would have checked on anything foul in the area.

It being much cooler to travel on foot after sundown and partiers traveling these roads???

David K - 4-6-2014 at 01:38 PM

azucena... that is a spare tire.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azucena
and if he was injured etc in some way he would have been more vulnerable to being taken advantage of by someone of the human species.

Or offered help. :light:

BornFisher - 4-6-2014 at 01:50 PM

I imagine ranchers who run stock in lion country, are always looking for signs. And I would think, most times when a lion is in the area, the ranchers know.

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 02:20 PM

Mileage information just learned from family:

CAR SERVICED IN CALIFORNIA ON 08/28/2013-MILES: 158,756

MILEAGE TAKEN AT THE CATAVINA IMPOUND YARD: 159,489

TOTAL MILES AFTER SERVICE: 733

MILES TO SAN QUINTIN FROM WESTMINISTER CALIFORNIA: 445

288 MILES UNACCOUNTED FOR

Gary also drove the vehicle in California for 6 days prior to his trip.

latina - 4-6-2014 at 02:23 PM

The truck has two new stickers on the back window, different from the original photo. Are they from somewhere in Baja?

The truck looks cleaner after sitting out in the desert for 6 months than our truck looks after sitting inside a garage for 6 months....

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 02:29 PM

IT It had rained prior to these photos taken but still there is no mud around the rear tires on the body itself.

I will ask about the stickers. Good eye Latina!

willardguy - 4-6-2014 at 02:38 PM

another meaningless observation but curious, if you notice his surfboard fits completely inside the 4runner with the back window completely closed, these cars will accommodate a 10 foot board, yet when found the back window was partially down? also anyone recognize the new decals latina pointed out? they could be a clue

oops I see you already addressed the decals.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by willardguy]

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 02:43 PM

Yep, surfboard fits inside and the rancher told me it was wrapped with a towel in the area where the back window and the surfboard met and was sticking out.

Sticker information coming. Just sent them an email.

woody with a view - 4-6-2014 at 02:44 PM

funny thing about driving down a dusty dirt road with the rear window open is you soon become engulfed in swirling dust inside the car.

Ateo - 4-6-2014 at 02:44 PM

Right decal looks like a Hendrix sticker.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
The truck has two new stickers on the back window, different from the original photo.

Three.....duplicated on each side = six.
So...Gary likes stickers.

.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by DENNIS]

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 02:50 PM

As far as the mileage: Subtract another 50 miles for the ride to the spot where the 4 Runner was found from the highway that makes it a total of 238 miles unaccounted for.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by lizard lips]

Ateo - 4-6-2014 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
As far as the mileage: Subtract another 50 miles for the ride to the spot where the 4 Runner was found from the highway that makes it a total of 238 miles unaccounted for.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by lizard lips]

and San Q to Catavina turnoff.........100 miles?

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Ateo]

N2Baja - 4-6-2014 at 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
The truck has two new stickers on the back window, different from the original photo. Are they from somewhere in Baja?

The truck looks cleaner after sitting out in the desert for 6 months than our truck looks after sitting inside a garage for 6 months....

Latina, I just wanted to say that your attention to detail, and powers of observation are incredible! Way to go! You're a great asset to the search!

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

Gary also drove the vehicle in California for 6 days prior to his trip.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

and San Q to Catavina turnoff.........100 miles?

Rapidly closing the mileage gap.

.

[Edited on 4-6-2014 by DENNIS]

Another clue???

bajaguy - 4-6-2014 at 03:00 PM

Where and when???

Where is the original tire????.......in the 4Runner, under the car....or?????

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
azucena... that is a spare tire.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

and 100 miles from San Quintin to turnoff from highway. =138 miles unaccounted for.

Gotcha above on edit. Thanks.

Ateo - 4-6-2014 at 03:09 PM

regarding dead battery..........someone check if the cabin light is in the "on" position as well as the steering column headlight "on" switch? Just a thought.

Anyway to resize those photos to make larger?

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

Anyway to resize those photos to make larger?

Put your mouse on it, hold down the Ctrl key and roll the scroll.

Hook - 4-6-2014 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
Right decal looks like a Hendrix sticker.

I think the left one is some type of Native American sticker, isn't it?.

azucena - 4-6-2014 at 03:31 PM

Righto I get the spare tire, but is it mounted or is the picture taken looking up at the spare where it is stored under the vehicle? I can't quite tell

bajaguy - 4-6-2014 at 03:35 PM

It's mounted

Quote:

Originally posted by azucena
Righto I get the spare tire, but is it mounted or is the picture taken looking up at the spare where it is stored under the vehicle? I can't quite tell

Mexitron - 4-6-2014 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Another thing I forgot to mention was that the vehicle had 3/4 of a tank of gas when discovered.

More ideas----most surfers camp on the beach, unless he was an explorer nut like me. Also, were there any signs that he had set up camp? If he was a seasoned explorer he would have set up camp and tried harder to dig out (using brush, etc.) perhaps. The three times I've had major problems we just camped until we fixed it. If he wasn't a seasoned explorer I wonder why he's taking these little side roads and not going to the beach.....eh, who knows...

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 04:16 PM

No indication that he had camped at this site where the car was found.

The stickers in the recent photos were there when he went south and left California.

The last photo seen on the camera was not dated and "stamped" on the photo however was seen on Date Image Taken by his son at Catavina P.D.

The flat tire is inside the 4 Runner and not mounted underneath. I can't remember right now if it was posted that the vehicle was found by the rancher with a flat however he didn't mention it. Must follow up with this.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
If he wasn't a seasoned explorer I wonder why he's taking these little side roads and not going to the beach.....eh, who knows...

Sometimes we have to learn the hard way, I suppose.

Skipjack Joe - 4-6-2014 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Mileage information just learned from family:

CAR SERVICED IN CALIFORNIA ON 08/28/2013-MILES: 158,756

MILEAGE TAKEN AT THE CATAVINA IMPOUND YARD: 159,489

TOTAL MILES AFTER SERVICE: 733

MILES TO SAN QUINTIN FROM WESTMINISTER CALIFORNIA: 445

288 MILES UNACCOUNTED FOR

Gary also drove the vehicle in California for 6 days prior to his trip.

Interesting. The vehicle drove only 288 miles since the september border crossing.

Rancher says it only showed up a few weeks ago.

Either (a) it virtually drove to this stop from the border and has been sitting here for 6 months. Or (b) The car has been out of commission for all that time and driven/towed to this spot several weeks ago (foul play).

Option (a) is much more likely.

Why? Because the 'set up' is just to elaborate. Why would anyone go to that much trouble to create clues to throw you off. The bandits would never get caught either way. Nothing was stolen. I don't see a great motive for the bandits to recreate such a scene.

P.S. Correction. Westminister to Catavina is 557 miles on a straight line. That leaves only 176 miles. 30 miles from Catavina to car location. That's 146 miles for 6 days of traveling in the US followed by baja travel. I don't think he even reached the Pacific Coast from Catavina. Sadly, it looks as though Gary had already passed away by the time that the Patton family had started the search.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

monoloco - 4-6-2014 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
No indication that he had camped at this site where the car was found.

The stickers in the recent photos were there when he went south and left California.

The last photo seen on the camera was not dated and "stamped" on the photo however was seen on Date Image Taken by his son at Catavina P.D.

The flat tire is inside the 4 Runner and not mounted underneath. I can't remember right now if it was posted that the vehicle was found by the rancher with a flat however he didn't mention it. Must follow up with this.

The EXIF data embedded in the camera files will give the date and time when the photos were taken.

latina - 4-6-2014 at 04:34 PM

I can't remember if it was stated or not, but did the police go to the fish camps and beach at the end of the road and talk to the people there to see if they remembered Gary? Maybe he had made it to the beach, camped for a while and was on his way back to the highway when he got stuck...

latina - 4-6-2014 at 04:42 PM

Also if the spare tire was on the truck when they found it, he must have got a flat between the highway and where the truck was found or the beach and where the truck was found, otherwise he would have had his tire repaired in Catavina before embarking on a long journey on a rough road with a spare tire...

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 04:42 PM

No Latina, I have no information on that but I'm certain it will be checked out in the next month. I cant remember if Brian went there or not. He hit a lot of places we didn't. I will have to visit his log again.

With what is now known about the milage it appears that Garys vehicle never made it to BOLA or anywhere south of Catavina.

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 05:10 PM

There are so may ways to go here Soul and all are credible, possible and welcome to share. Because there wasn't that many miles on the 4 Runner and if the rancher is correct with his opinion about the car only being there for a short while then maybe Gary was camping on the beach close by and was heading back. Why he would go off road is beyond me especially not having a 4x4.

It has been a very productive day so far and I want to Thank You all for your input. Next is getting the camera and inspecting the 4 Runner. Also of course we MUST go to the beach and contact others in the area for their observations.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Maybe the guy just got stuck, walk away and stroked out.... he could have had some kind of CVA(cerebular vascular accident)

Ohhhh Nooooooo........another complete topic for speculation....the medical cause.
Could be good for hundreds of additional pages of "maybes." :lol:

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 05:24 PM

My mileage was incorrect in my "Mileage" post. It was figured 455 miles from Westminister to Catavina not as I posted, 455 from Westminister to San Quintin.

BornFisher - 4-6-2014 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
No Latina, I have no information on that but I'm certain it will be checked out in the next month. I cant remember if Brian went there or not. He hit a lot of places we didn't. I will have to visit his log again.

With what is now known about the milage it appears that Garys vehicle never made it to BOLA or anywhere south of Catavina.

Brian did not make it out to the beach. When he went south through that area, he visited Nomads and hung flyers. He was driving a rental car, not much clearance but he did get off the main road and did some dirt roads. Brian loved to take pics. and would hang the camera out the window to get everything. Gary no doubt took lots of pics too.
Bad news about the mileage though. Not much wiggle room there.

Natalie Ann - 4-6-2014 at 05:31 PM

My quote box function is not working, so you will need to go to the first post on this thread. Blanca, reporting for the family and describing Gary, posts that another cause for concern was that Gary had recently begun to drink a little and that alcohol in combination with his meds did not work well for him. She points out that we do not know if he continued to drink.

But if he did, that might account for impaired judgement.

Nena

BajaNomad - 4-6-2014 at 05:31 PM

Assuming a digital camera, as mono noted, even if the pics aren't time-stamped on the image, each file will still have a time/date associated with it.

tripledigitken - 4-6-2014 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
Assuming a digital camera, as mono noted, even if the pics aren't time-stamped on the image, each file will still have a time/date associated with it.

Some also have gps data!!

JZ - 4-6-2014 at 06:08 PM

I spent two hours reading the entire thread last weekend.

A couple take a ways for me:

1. I feel really, really sad for the family. I'm so sorry for your loss.

2. The family acted with complete class through this whole ordeal. Even in the face of a lot of bs.

3. Baja is a rugged place. We all need to have backups and plan B's and C's.

4. A half dozen nomads stepped up and were just incredibly awesome. I've taken note of you guys. Good guys.

5. Several Baja Nomads should feel really embarrassed. I am personally sickened at your behaviors in this thread. Dennis is the number one person and Bubba is a close second. You should take a deep inward look.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by JZ]

absinvestor - 4-6-2014 at 06:25 PM

I have been following this thread from the beginning but guess I missed something. I don't know Dennis but in general I have found his posts helpful. Some posters are more direct than others.

EnsenadaDr - 4-6-2014 at 06:25 PM

Dennis is more than direct....he's express!!

BajaBlanca - 4-6-2014 at 06:28 PM

This has been a really long ordeal. My thoughts are with the family and yes, they have been amazing. We are closer to closure and I am sure none of us will rest til then. Many have indeed gone above and beyond the call of duty......and this has been an incredible resource.

Baja is rugged. We must always bear that in mind for sure have a Plan B and even C.

DENNIS - 4-6-2014 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JZ

5. Several Baja Nomads should feel really embarrassed. I am personally sickened at your behaviors in this thread. Dennis is the number one person and Bubba is a close second. You should take a deep inward look.

I would have to stick my head in a similar place as yours for a deep, inward look and I'm disinclined to do that.
How's the view up there?

JZ - 4-6-2014 at 06:38 PM

You are not a good person.

Hook - 4-6-2014 at 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Also of course we MUST go to the beach and contact others in the area for their observations.

See, this is what's really grating me. That some form of authority hasnt done this yet. Now, it probably wont occur until after Semana Santa. So, that's an additional two weeks.

Memories fade............people move on, especially surfers.

There is unnecessary foot-dragging going on here, IMO.

EnsenadaDr - 4-6-2014 at 07:30 PM

I think that Lizard Lips didn't get involved publicly because he didn't have the OK of the family. That is pretty obvious because now since the family gave their ok Lizard is now fully complying and sharing important information. The family needs to get down to Baja and start a full-fledged investigation and get totally involved in the area of Gary's disappearance. To have the family up in California and the Nomads down in the vicinity just won't work. Semana Santa perhaps is now the time to make it or break it.

lizard lips - 4-6-2014 at 08:11 PM

No Janene that isn't correct. The family has been cool with whatever I wanted to do however I informed them of what I was planning. All of the information coming forward recently has been posted immediately except for the rancher and that end of it. Prior to putting anything on the Nomad board I wanted to confirm prior to posting. Confirmation is the only way to go forward and that I held back was just something I needed to do before I mentioned anything. I didn't want anyone to get the wrong information and I didn't want to post wrong information. Having the family come down in early May is what they are planning. They cannot do it sooner. Hopefully before they do come down we may obtain a police report as well as the Ministerio Publico Investigation report so we can see exactly what has been done since the missing person notification was issued and they started their investigation. I won't even speculate what the authorities in San Quintin or Catavina have done until I have proof before me. After a review then we can go forward and do what needs to be done.

TMW - 4-6-2014 at 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JZ
You are not a good person.

Don't be too quick to judge. Dennis ask the hard questions sometimes or may question something, but he is a straight shooter.

Bob H - 4-6-2014 at 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by JZ
You are not a good person.

Don't be too quick to judge. Dennis ask the hard questions sometimes or may question something, but he is a straight shooter.

Totally agree with TW !!

EnsenadaDr - 4-6-2014 at 08:28 PM

Thanks Lizard. SO happy the family is coming. Hopefully it can be a combined search with Nomads in the area and family.

JZ - 4-6-2014 at 09:15 PM

Read the thread guys. Read the thread. If it doesn't make you angry I'd be surprised. If I was a family member I'd be just beside myself with the behavior of several nomads in this thread.

I'm all for "tough questions." That's not what this is about.

BajaDixon - 4-6-2014 at 09:54 PM

There were a lot of BS comments that really served no useful purpose other than to upset the family. If you think the ones you read were bad you didn't want to read the ones that were deleted soon after being posted. Very sad. Unfortunately that's the reality of forums.

willardguy - 4-7-2014 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaDixon
There were a lot of BS comments that really served no useful purpose other than to upset the family. If you think the ones you read were bad you didn't want to read the ones that were deleted soon after being posted. Very sad. Unfortunately that's the reality of forums.

lose the delete option, like a text or an email, either defend it or apologize. folks will start thinking twice before hitting the send button?

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by willardguy]

DianaT - 4-7-2014 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

Quote:

lose the delete option, like a text or an email, either defend it or apologize. folks will start thinking twice before hitting the send button?

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by willardguy]

Good idea --- but if anyone wants the entire thread or a page before someone deletes things, one can save the printable version to their own computer ---sometimes a very good idea!

Sincerely hoping that soon Lizard Lips and the family will have more answers. Considering his experience, the family is fortunate to have Lizard Lips continuing to search.

Justbozo - 4-7-2014 at 08:48 AM

TAKE THE CATFIGHTS OUTSIDE!!!

XRPhlang - 4-7-2014 at 09:31 AM

I thought I'd jump in with an observation. I apologies if it has already been covered...In regards to the rear window being cracked and the surfboard sticking out, why would he travel with it this way when the photo indicates that it will fit inside with the window closed. Maybe someone needed to make space for a passenger?

lizard lips - 4-7-2014 at 10:22 AM

I really can't figure out the rear window situation and why the surfboard was sticking out when the 4 Runner was discovered and then secured in the photo at the PD impound lot. More maybes.

As far as the deletion of post are concerned at this point in time the family can handle anything that is written and I want to see whats posted as well the sensitive posts or what some say were disgusting. Leave them all here.

It was a good day yesterday with all the posts and I even had the Patton crew send me the u2u's that were sent to them which were very positive and productive.

As I mentioned you all know everything so far and there is no hidden agenda as far as myself or the Pattons are concerned. Anytime something new is learned it will be posted, good or bad, and you will be kept informed.

JoeJustJoe - 4-7-2014 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
My quote box function is not working, so you will need to go to the first post on this thread. Blanca, reporting for the family and describing Gary, posts that another cause for concern was that Gary had recently begun to drink a little and that alcohol in combination with his meds did not work well for him. She points out that we do not know if he continued to drink.

But if he did, that might account for impaired judgement.

Nena

There is also the fact in this thread or in another place, because this story is all over the internet besides "Baja Nomad" it said Gary might have had a falling out with the family, my not have wanted to be found, and had plenty of money with him. Gary might also be known by another alias name, from what a brief search of the internet shows.

Maybe it's none of "Baja Nomad" members business, because most of us aren't even involved here, but are only speculating. and perhaps praying for Gary. But we don't know what Gary's frame of mind was when he disappeared, and if he suffered from any mental impairment, and if so, was it serious or minor. I think this is a very important detail that we don't know about, and at the very least the search party should know about.

A few things don't seem rational to me, like getting stuck in the mud, but leaving the keys in the SUV but locking the 4-Runner, so when you do find help you locked herself out of the SUV, and even if he had a spare keys, why leave it, and take a chance somebody will come by dig the SUV out of the dirt, and steal it, or steal the contents of the vehicle. So who even knows who was behind the wheel when the 4-runner got stuck in the mud.

I had a 4-Runner years ago, and even took it all the way to Cabo, and they are very reliable vehicles, and the battery should have been good for at lease a couple of weeks, or it should have been very easy to jump start if the battery was dead.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 4-7-2014 at 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I really can't figure out the rear window situation and why the surfboard was sticking out when the 4 Runner was discovered and then secured in the photo at the PD impound lot.

I'm just curious and the question is meaningless, but the foto shows what would be called a luggage rack on the 4-Runner. Would he have tied his board to that, or traveled with his board in the car?

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