BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Pages: 1 .. 10 11 12 13 14 .. 24

pappy - 4-7-2014 at 11:12 AM

if i read it correctly the rancher said there was only a couple beers, melted ice. no mention of food? sounds like he was just doing a short one or two day trip out to the area. maybe he was staying somewhere else and decided to cruise out to that coast for day or two?

to travel on that road with surfboard stuck out window(wrapped in towel or not) would surely cause a cracked window at some point. i know i sure wouldn't travel that way, especially if it fit inside. no way i would want to be sucking in all that dust. was the vehicle clean on the inside or completely covered in dust?

DENNIS - 4-7-2014 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pappy

no way i would want to be sucking in all that dust. was the vehicle clean on the inside or completely covered in dust?

The amount of dirt inside would say a lot about traveling with that rear window open...even just a little bit open.

I once had an old station wagon that lost it's rear window and I almost choked to death on exhaust fumes.

pappy - 4-7-2014 at 11:22 AM

after looking at the last pics posted, the surfboard appears to be a soft top bord-like you can buuy at costco and many other places. thus, i don't think it would necessarily crack the window. was he a seasoned surfer?

Ateo - 4-7-2014 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I really can't figure out the rear window situation and why the surfboard was sticking out when the 4 Runner was discovered and then secured in the photo at the PD impound lot.

I'm just curious and the question is meaningless, but the foto shows what would be called a luggage rack on the 4-Runner. Would he have tied his board to that, or traveled with his board in the car?

He could've tied it to that rack. It looks like a soft top surfboard. If it was mine I would've just threw it in the back of the 4 runner. Not gonna get dinged.

lizard lips - 4-7-2014 at 11:31 AM

Just found out that the 4 Runner is still at the Catavina impound yard. I posted that it was in San Quintin sometime ago.

If I had a board sticking out the back I would also try and fit it in the vehicle instead of having all that dust inside Pappy. Apparently when he left Cali. the board was inside the SUV. I had posted that there was canned food found in the vehicle.

Valid points Joe. What is known is that Gary has never used an AKA. Had no mental issues and was in good shape. I am not aware of his habits and why, if it was him, leave the board sticking out the window and look for help as well as leave a set of keys in the car. Very odd

mtgoat666 - 4-7-2014 at 11:33 AM

the simplest answer is usually the right answer...

seems like the evidence says he got stuck, went for help, and disappeared,... perhaps fell, had a heart attack, got eaten by a chupacabra, got disoriented and lost, got high and lost, etc,... seems like first thing to do is rent a small plane, put 3 or 4 pairs of eyes on board, and fly a grid to look for a body. doing a search on foot in that terrain would not be very productive way to cover ground

lizard lips - 4-7-2014 at 11:47 AM

Never had the opportunity to be a part of a search mtgoat but you may be right. It would be very difficult, I think, to view a body from the air especially if there wasn't much left and could be scattered.

If anyone was to go there and search and something is found please do not touch anything and mark the area so it can be located again without any problems. Also if you do find something please call or go to the Catavina PD and inform them. I suggest a search must be done with others that have knowledge of the area. Please do not attempt to do this by yourself. The desert is unforgiving and if anything were to happen we would be looking for you.

latina - 4-7-2014 at 12:01 PM

If you zoom the photos on page 53 the inside of the truck doesn't look the way it would if all of the dust was blowing inside of it...The dashboard and even the surfboard look clean.
It looks like there are two dusty handprints on the left front of the hood, probably from the police opening it up.
I wonder what he had intended to carry on the roof rack he purchased before his trip?
If he was going for help on foot why didn't he walk on the road? Who would go looking for help in the dense cactus??

N2Baja - 4-7-2014 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Here's another 'maybe' regarding the surfboard.

Maybe, after unsuccessfully trying to dig himself out, and not thinking he would be gone long, he just grabbed the towel to wrap around the board and rolled up the window as far as he could, then left to look for help. Leaving the window down a crack would also let some air into the vehicle and keep it a tad cooler inside.

When the 4runner was found, was the front seat tilted forward to allow room for the board? Maybe the police moved the board when they moved the vehicle.

So many unknowns. You're doing an awesome job Lizardlips; as are the many other nomads sharing their thoughts and insights. I hope it leads to something (anything) to give Gary's family hope or at least closure.

XRPhlang - 4-7-2014 at 12:46 PM

So nobody thinks the surfboard might have been re-positioned to allow for a passenger? In the picture where the board is completely inside the car, it extends into the passenger seat. This could be interpreted as an intentional act that would provide room for someone else to ride in that seat to the location where the car was found.

BajaNomad - 4-7-2014 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina

If he was going for help on foot why didn't he walk on the road?

I've seen no indication here that he didn't.

Considering it's 2.4 km back to the most traveled road nearby, I find it doubtful there's been a thorough search up to now on each side of the road covering that distance (at a minimum).

Besides the immediate area where the vehicle was found, I'd assume that distance of road would be where to be looking next. It would need to be slow, and on foot - not by plane.

My apologies if my assumptions are incorrect regarding a search having already taken place over that distance of road.

willardguy - 4-7-2014 at 12:53 PM

I'll tell ya this, long before I set out on foot, that soft top would have been under my drive tire for traction!

chuckie - 4-7-2014 at 12:59 PM

JJJ, I googled and binged the net and could only find a couple of other references to Gary Patton lost...so much for it "being all over the internet"..site some sources

Hook - 4-7-2014 at 01:08 PM

I'm having trouble understanding the real importance of the placement of the surfboard in all this.

DENNIS - 4-7-2014 at 01:13 PM

A few things are certain. the car was disabled.....stuck in the sand/mud, and Gary is not with the car.
It MUST be assumed that he left on foot to get help. Had others come across him while he was still with the disabled vehicle, they would have given him the assistance he needed and he would have driven out.

One would almost have to be standing in the spot of the incident to make an assumption of which way he walked.
One would also need to know the direction the car was headed when stuck to assume where he had been, or from which direction he was traveling from.

All else is a senseless, tiring mind game like the old TVshow, "What's My Line."

willardguy - 4-7-2014 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I'm having trouble understanding the real importance of the placement of the surfboard in all this.

hook, in my mind its about how the rancher got in the car, he said the back window was down a bit with the surfboard protruding a bit yet now its inside the car with the back window rolled up. I think. if the battery was dead dead the window couldnt have been rolled back up. im not suggesting anything, its just curious.

N2Baja - 4-7-2014 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
JJJ, I googled and binged the net and could only find a couple of other references to Gary Patton lost...so much for it "being all over the internet"..site some sources

Did you use quotes? I did a search of "gary patton" baja on google and came up with quite a few, including images of Gary and the poster.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by N2Baja]

latina - 4-7-2014 at 01:48 PM

I feel so badly for the Patton family. Even though they have retrieved the truck, there are so many questions left unanswered, the most important being, where is Gary?

Were the boogie board, fins and wetsuit and tent in the truck when it was recovered?
If he was not an "avid surfer", which was mentioned several times, and he planned to return to San Quintin in 3 days, why would he drive all the way south to Catavina and then travel 50 miles of rough dirt road to go surfing at a location that was not mentioned as one of his likely destinations, when there are closer options, given his travel "plans"?

I started reading the thread again and found answers to some of the Nomad's questions:

1. On page 14 the ex-wife said that Gary's surfboard may be hanging out the back window, not on top and that there were obvious hard knife scratches on the driver's side, which you can see in the photos. Apparently the surfboard's location was not unusual.

2. Another family member said that the medications Gary was taking were for high-blood pressure.

pappy - 4-7-2014 at 01:50 PM

could indicate it had been moved to allow a second person to ride inside. no reason to drive around with it sticking out the back window-especially if by yourself in that dust bowl area.

JoeJustJoe - 4-7-2014 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
JJJ, I googled and binged the net and could only find a couple of other references to Gary Patton lost...so much for it "being all over the internet"..site some sources

Try putting in "Gary Patton missing" and I get at least 15 hits of different sites, forums, and blogs, but nothing like this on "BN."

I also don't see the real importance of the placement of the surfboard. However, I would like to know if Gary had any enemies, business partners, financial difficulties, life insurance policies suicidal thoughts .....etc etc....

Was Gary the type to pick up strangers and perhaps say a little bit too much? One post somewhere said Gary had plenty of money on hand, did he have too much money to make him a target..........these are just some of the questions I have, and really none of my business........

Skipjack Joe - 4-7-2014 at 02:52 PM

Lizard Lips,

Could you please post the coordinates where the vehicle was found?

If I somehow missed them then please indicate which page that was on.

Thanks.

PS. I'm with Hook on the surfboard speculation. It seems pretty irrelevant.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

XRPhlang - 4-7-2014 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Lizard Lips,

PS. I'm with Hook on the surfboard speculation. It seems pretty irrelevant.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

I was only suggesting that there may have been another person riding shotgun. I don't know who it would be, or why, but I thought it relevant. Maybe I'm over-speculating.

BajaNomad - 4-7-2014 at 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Lizard Lips,

Could you please post the coordinates where the vehicle was found?

He's indicated that he's posted what he has. This is the most detailed report of where the vehicle was found:

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

At km 189, heading south on Hwy 1, is a turn off approximately 12 km prior to reaching Catavina. There is a large sign that says "San Jose". You turn right heading towards the ocean. You stay on this dirt road for approximately 38 kilometers and come to a Y in the road. You take the dirt road to the right and travel approximately 10 kilometers and turn left and follow this dirt road another 2 km and off to the right is an arroyo about 400 meters and the vehicle was behind a small hill off to the right side. He stated that you would not be able to see the 4 Runner while traveling on the road. It was hidden from view.

I speculated that would put the vehicle about here:

http://goo.gl/maps/U2WUo

(29.495167,-115.001408)

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by BajaNomad]

lizard lips - 4-7-2014 at 04:38 PM

I don't know the exact GPS but it will be posted as soon as it is confirmed. BajaNomad looks like he has it as correct as I have seen so far.

Gary did not have any life policy, enemies, business partners, or anyone that had a grudge or wanted him harmed. No indication of suicide as well Joe.This was told to me by the family. Also learned by the family is that they don't know exactly how much cash he had when he went down but we do know his ATM card was never used. Because Gary was the social type he may very well had someone travel with him that he met. It's all possible.

Gary was living on Social Security and was not employed prior to going south.

He was very social and liked to talk. When Bajaguy and I went to the Old Mill Restaurant a waiter was asked if he recognized the photo on the flyer. After looking at it for a little while I told him that Gary liked to talk and then he said,yes, this is the guy who was talking to another man at a table and this guy liked to talk a lot. We were not able to find out who Gary was talking with but this was before 09/05.

Latina, I wrote about what the rancher saw in the vehicle and as far as a wet suit, boogie board, and tent, the family said he left with those items in the 4 Runner but was not mentioned by the rancher. We won't know what was recovered until the vehicle is obtained and items checked off. Everyone will be informed about all when we know. I don't know what Gary was doing on that road Latina. We do know he was on an adventure and planned on camping but he never told anyone where or how long he would be gone.

I'm glad you are all throwing these questions out there even if they have been asked and answered. It keeps everyone informed and I will answer all as best I can. Keep those "what if's" coming as well. Thanks!

EnsenadaDr - 4-7-2014 at 04:46 PM

I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back. I think he maybe stopped, had a few drinks and was robbed. The vehicle was then put in that spot later on. Which reminds me of a true story. My father had a friend in Rosarito when we all lived on Villas del Mar way before Woooosh even placed a brick on his property and Tila's house was in ruins and no one lived there, around the year 2000. He was pretty friendly with this Mexican guy and the guy and my dad went to Primo Tapia to visit some people and there were no beds, only a double bed and my father and his friend slept in the double bed together. They returned a few days later, and his friend was arrested for slitting the throat of an elderly American couple in Rosarito and robbing them. My father never got tired of telling that story as he said, "it could have just as well been him." However my father spent most of his money around the first week of the month and most people were aware of that. So I guess he wasn't a target. Well hopefully this didn't happen to Gary as no one has found him. He could have easily lost his memory, who knows? Hopefully he is still alive.

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I don't know the exact GPS but it will be posted as soon as it is confirmed. BajaNomad looks like he has it as correct as I have seen so far.

Gary did not have any life policy, enemies, business partners, or anyone that had a grudge or wanted him harmed. No indication of suicide as well Joe.This was told to me by the family. Also learned by the family is that they don't know exactly how much cash he had when he went down but we do know his ATM card was never used. Because Gary was the social type he may very well had someone travel with him that he met. It's all possible.

Gary was living on Social Security and was not employed prior to going south.

He was very social and liked to talk. When Bajaguy and I went to the Old Mill Restaurant a waiter was asked if he recognized the photo on the flyer. After looking at it for a little while I told him that Gary liked to talk and then he said,yes, this is the guy who was talking to another man at a table and this guy liked to talk a lot. We were not able to find out who Gary was talking with but this was before 09/05.

Latina, I wrote about what the rancher saw in the vehicle and as far as a wet suit, boogie board, and tent, the family said he left with those items in the 4 Runner but was not mentioned by the rancher. We won't know what was recovered until the vehicle is obtained and items checked off. Everyone will be informed about all when we know. I don't know what Gary was doing on that road Latina. We do know he was on an adventure and planned on camping but he never told anyone where or how long he would be gone.

I'm glad you are all throwing these questions out there even if they have been asked and answered. It keeps everyone informed and I will answer all as best I can. Keep those "what if's" coming as well. Thanks!

azucena - 4-7-2014 at 05:21 PM

Did the rancher who found the vehicle mention any other car or other tracks in the immediate area of the vehicle? If the car had not been there long, it would seem there would be evidence of someone potentially l LEAVING the area, if the car waqs brought there so recently. Of course they could have been on foot , but it might be interesting to know what other prints , tracks etal might have been in the area. Of course wind etc could have buried them, but in my experience tracks are something ranchers are usually very aware of and are usually very savvy of what animal and human presences have been in the area

mtgoat666 - 4-7-2014 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.

"firmly believe?"

people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something you should be so firm about

tripledigitken - 4-7-2014 at 05:27 PM

Can it be determined if the car was facing the prevailing winds or was really sheltered from the wind?

EnsenadaDr - 4-7-2014 at 05:28 PM

I believe this, Goat, because the Rancher knows his area. Why else would he not have seen Gary's vehicle until a few weeks ago.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.

"firmly believe?"

people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something you should be so firm about

DENNIS - 4-7-2014 at 06:13 PM

You folks have questions??

Here's your answers:

http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/ouija/

mtgoat666 - 4-7-2014 at 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I believe this, Goat, because the Rancher knows his area. Why else would he not have seen Gary's vehicle until a few weeks ago.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.

"firmly believe?"

people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something you should be so firm about

Memory is unreliable

Try this memory test. http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/survey.html

BornFisher - 4-7-2014 at 09:02 PM

When it all boils down, I`m guessing this--- He was exploring Baja and having a great time. He screwed up and got his vehicle stuck in the sand. He tried to get himself out. He failed and couldn`t get himself out. He stayed there as long as possible. He started to walk to find help. Something bad happened. No foul play here.

Hook - 4-7-2014 at 09:38 PM

But if something bad happened when he attempted to walk out, it would likely have been in sight of the road and he would have been found by now, if it didnt involve foul play.

Or, I suppose, a mtn. lion could have dragged him off somewhere, but I still think that's less likely. Especially if there is lots of stock in the area. That would be a more likely source of food for them and they are probably leery of humans if the ranchers deter them when seen.

Can anyone estimate how many cars per day would travel this road during the time period indicated? 0-5, 5-10, 10-20 or more? If he had expired in some proximity to the road, wouldnt the smell of putrification linger for some weeks? People driving by would notice it and remember it.

Another reason to chafe at the delay in an "official" search............ :rolleyes:

It pains me to write in such graphic detail; knowing that the family is certainly reading all this. But these discussions can be very valuable to their cause.

lizard lips - 4-7-2014 at 10:20 PM

After all is said recently my thoughts are this-The mileage cannot be changed and we know he didn't get far, by car, from San Quintin when he left Jardines on September 05. What the rancher said about not seeing the vehicle in December there is a time period there that Gary was somewhere for a few months that someone must know about. Could the vehicle been stuck in the sand in September and maybe the rancher was confused and other ranchers just not traveled that particular site since September? Maybe but not likely.

The only thing we need now is knowing what pictures and dates the photos were taken on both cameras. An accounting of everything inside the vehicle and a search. Also contacting other ranchers in the area for their knowledge and the possibility of having been to the vehicle recovery site prior to the ranchers discovery. Am I missing something else?

We never received a call related to the flyers posted in this area meaning Catavina, El Rosario, BOLA or San Quintin. Many calls were received from well wishers and I even had a call from a man and his wife who said they wanted to pray with me and he did-On the phone for 15 minutes. Calls were also received from a few in Rosarito but these were not credible sightings.

I have no idea which way the wind blows where the car was found or even if it was hidden from view from the road. The rancher said it was so I have to believe it was.

I know if I was stuck where the 4 Runner was found I would leave prior to day break and head for the highway on the dirt road. Did Gary have a medical issue when he was walking? Maybe- Did he get disoriented? Maybe- Did he suffer a snake bite? Maybe- Or was it someone else that intentionally had the vehicle stuck in the sand to look like Gary met his demise lost in the desert? Maybe-So many possibilities that makes my head spin.

We just have to do this rationally and get all of the information we can from what is available and make sense of it all.

With all of your continued informative posts it makes it much easier to understand that maybe we might get an answer.

Islandbuilder - 4-7-2014 at 10:34 PM

Is there any chance that the police took prints off of the interior of the car?

Do you have Gary's prints to compare them to?

Probably a lot of people have sat in that truck by now, from the rancher to the local police, but still.......

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Islandbuilder]

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Islandbuilder]

Google Earth Flyover Hwy. 1 to 4Runner location, from Sharksbaja

David K - 4-7-2014 at 10:52 PM

Corky (Sharksbaja) has been following this and made a Google Earth kmz file that creates the effect of flying above the roads one would use from Hwy. 1 by Cataviña to near where Gary's 4Runner was found.

The road we think he turned left on is in the middle of the video image at 2:03 min.

You can pause the play to allow GE time to load that area. My PC or Internet takes a few moments to sharpen the image as it moves to a new area, then I hit the forward arrow to continue.

Thank you Sharks for this work!

http://www.sharksseafoodbar.com/PattonsRoute.kmz

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 12:42 AM

Perhaps Sharksbaja is right.

I was doing the same thing at about the same time and came up with a bit of a different location. The yellow marker on Corky's map:

29°34'9.81"N 114°54'55.40"W

is almost exactly 38km from the highway. I therefore assumed that he turned right at this spot. In fact I postulated that Gary lost his life because he wasn't sure whether to turn right or left and made the wrong choice at this very spot.

The ranchero that found him I figured was at this location:

29°34'32.55"N 114°57'17.49"W

He states that the vehicle was with 1-2km from the ranch.

The road to the ranch looks like the main road so such a mistake could easily be made.

The only problem is that you can't go 10km after the right turn. In that sense Corky's landscape looks to be more like the description.

Anyway, Corky may indeed be right but this is another possibility.

I used this Youtube video to learn how to measure miles across a google map. I'm not sure if the accuracy is affected if you aren't looking straight down because one part of the map seemed closer than the other during the segments that I measured.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYBoI7hZKss

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 01:31 AM

Actually, Corky's route fits the description of the latter part of the journey much better.

A 12km walk back to the main dirt road could be more than someone could handle in the heat. And if nobody is there and you decide to come back it's 24km.

The only thing that's puzzling is why someone would drive 12km off the main dirt road. That side road is too small to be confused for the main road. If you don't want to be seen while camping you wouldn't drive 12km to do it IMO.

So the location of the vehicle does make it more likely that something sinister could have happened. On the other hand it is fairly flat in that area. Who can read a man's mind.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 03:43 AM

How far is the distance from the Las Jardines where Gary was staying to the spot where his car was found? The key to his disappearance is on that route or road, somewhere, somehow. Also is the route direct except for that 12 km turnoff?

latina - 4-8-2014 at 06:14 AM

When I saw the photos of the recovered truck the first thing I thought was how different it looked than it did in the original flyer. The stickers and the roof rack stood out right away because of their newness and contrast. Maybe some posters of the recovered truck, showing the way it really looks, could be put up at a few locations on the highway between San Quintin and Catavina....maybe someone would remember it, especially if it was seen more recently than September 5th?

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 07:18 AM

Great idea Latina.

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Anyway, Corky may indeed be right but this is another possibility.

Of course he's right. He's always right :biggrin:

, but where is he? I didn't even see him post here. :?:

larryC - 4-8-2014 at 07:36 AM

I find it hard to believe that Gary could camp on the beach and surf from Sept to March and not be remembered. The amount of food and water and ice he would need to receive from the locals (since there are not enough miles on the truck to indicate he drove anywhere to get supplies) would make him memorable. Then his truck turns up stuck in the sand. To me it seems more plausible that the truck has been hidden for a few months and then ditched.

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 07:54 AM

I'm in agreement with Larry.

If you look at the location of the vehicle -

There is no explanation for why Gary would drive to this spot. It's 10 km off the main dirt road. Followed by another 2km off a 'goat' road. And another 400m up an arroyo that can't be seen.

It is, however, exactly the sort of place where you would drive a vehicle if you intended to hide it. Remote and hidden from view.

This theory supports the rancher's story that the vehicle was not at this spot 3 months after the vehicle Gary left the states. 3 months which the mileage says he could not have been driving around.

This theory, however, does not support the digging that was done to free the car.

David K - 4-8-2014 at 07:57 AM

The 10 km. section is also a graded road, that goes to Punta Canoas, which is a sizable fish camp like San Jose.

Maps

BeemerDan - 4-8-2014 at 08:08 AM

Were any Baja maps found in the car, Everyone I know that drives/rides Baja carrys a map with them, and if I was to set out on foot after getting stuck I'd certainly take the map with me. or if he had just a Baja almanac, and that was still in the vehicle I'd look for any pages torn out.

Taco de Baja - 4-8-2014 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How far is the distance from the Las Jardines where Gary was staying to the spot where his car was found? The key to his disappearance is on that route or road, somewhere, somehow. Also is the route direct except for that 12 km turnoff?

As the KM markers reset to "0" in San Quintin it will be approximately 168 KM (104 miles) to the turn-off to "Faro San Jose" (the 168 KM marker is esentially at the turn-off). Not sure where Jardines fits into the KM markers but should only be +/- a few. Add this to whatever the total off road distance was, (48KM [30 miles] I seem to recall), as long as he did not take any "wrong turns" and have to double back. There are several forks out there and unless you know the road you can take the wrong one that may only go to a rancho, or not go where you want. That track to Canoas where the directions from the rancher lead to is certainly not the more traveled, main road, so maybe he did know the roads out there and wanted to go to Canoas and not the area around San Jose?

So the short answer is ~216 KM (134 miles) from Jardines to where the vehicle was found.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Taco de Baja]

David K - 4-8-2014 at 08:19 AM

Jardines is pretty close to Km. 1.

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

The 10 km. section is also a graded road, that goes to Punta Canoas, which is a sizable fish camp like San Jose.

That does not look like a graded road to me. It does, however, look to be more traveled than I initially thought.

Another thought:

Given the proximity of all of these roads it's very unlikely that Gary was lost. It's unlikely that he was hiking all over the desert looking for help. It's more likely that he followed those roads searching or waiting for a passing vehicle. That's assuming there was no foul play.

Therefore the logical place to look for his remains would be along those roads.

If he did not perish in this area, however, there is a small, really small, chance that he may still be alive. I suppose as a family member I would think that way until the body is actually discovered.

latina - 4-8-2014 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I'm in agreement with Larry.

If you look at the location of the vehicle -

There is no explanation for why Gary would drive to this spot. It's 10 km off the main dirt road. Followed by another 2km off a 'goat' road. And another 400m up an arroyo that can't be seen.

It is, however, exactly the sort of place where you would drive a vehicle if you intended to hide it. Remote and hidden from view.

This theory supports the rancher's story that the vehicle was not at this spot 3 months after the vehicle Gary left the states. 3 months which the mileage says he could not have been driving around.

This theory, however, does not support the digging that was done to free the car.

Unless someone else who knows the area drove the car there to hide it and then they got stuck, gave up and planned to come back at a later date to get all the stuff, or strip it or whatever guys in Mexico do when they steal a foreign car.... In that scenario there would have had to be another accomplice in a vehicle or how would the person ditching it get out of there? It doesn't explain why a criminal would leave an easy portable item like an expensive camera behind, the extra keys, the plates on the truck and a couple of celebratory beers in the cooler...

wilderone - 4-8-2014 at 08:49 AM

"One would almost have to be standing in the spot of the incident to make an assumption of which way he walked. One would also need to know the direction the car was headed when stuck to assume where he had been, or from which direction he was traveling from."
I think this reasoning is a good starting point. From personal experience, I can suggest that maybe he took off, cross-country, toward a remembered rancho or campo, (not down the road - after all, he was already away from the main road), as a "shortcut", only to find difficult terrain and have to double back, making the hike longer. I personally have had to curtail digging out of the sand in the heat to sit under the meager shade of a bush, sipping water, until I could continue digging out. And Gary had blood pressure problems. And remember the guy who "went missing" in the arroyo around Catavina and was eventually found under a tree? The photo of the "accident memorial" on the camera is curious to me. Does it look like it has been in place for a while? Positioned next to the highway or in open space? This was the last photo?

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina

Quote:

I agree with you Latina. After DavidK pointed out that the 12km road actually leads to Pt Canoa it's likely that he wasn't just pulling off the road to San Jose but actually headed to Canoa. A 2km drive to get off this road to spend the night makes perfect sense. And in such a case he could have, indeed, just got his car stuck in the sediment as the evidence suggests.

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 09:05 AM

I don't know if it was the last photo in that Garys son viewed it while at the Catavina PD. Until we get the camera back then we will know exactly what photos were taken and when.

If someone staged the scene where the vehicle was found with the cameras still inside I would tend to believe that Gary was the last person to be there. Maybe that is exactly what the person/persons wanted people to believe or if the cameras were taken how would that person explain this to his friends or family. I'm just throwing that out there obviously.

The mileage driven is set in stone. The ranchers thoughts are not but you just have to believe him about not seeing the SUV in December. Very odd.

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 09:23 AM

To me the mileage information suggests that Gary drove to this spot virtually directly from home. Assuming he drove to Catavina for gas before doubling back I came out with 146 unaccounted miles.

But he had the vehicle for 6 days in the States before he started his journey. Just the back and forth in shopping could have accounted for those miles in 6 days.

This suggests that it really was an accidental death.

You have to wonder why he didn't take his beers and juice and melted water and walk the 2km and wait for cars to come by. Perhaps the traffic was so light that he decided this was futile and headed to the larger road to San Jose, another 10km. If the traffic is light on these roads he was clearly in a desparate situation.

PS. I've always wondered if lopping off a barrel cactus does provide some water.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 09:24 AM

Taco,

Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines? Where in your opinion do you think he was headed before the turn off he took?

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

willardguy - 4-8-2014 at 09:38 AM

it would be interesting to know just how buried the 4runner was? like I said, I would have jammed that soft top under the back wheel in a heartbeat before I took off walking! Lips, how soon do think before you can see the photo's?

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 10:02 AM

Not until the first of May will the car and belongings be recovered. I told the family not to travel anywhere in Mexico during the Easter Holidays and apparently they cannot get away until the end of the month anyway.

You all have to remember that Gary did not have any set plans on where he was going. Many thought he may go to BOLA to photograph the Whale Sharks and it appears he didn't make it any further south than Catavina.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 10:17 AM

From Google maps, it appears that it is approximately 115 miles from San Quintin to Catavina or maybe a 2 to 3 hours drive. If Gary started out from Hotel Los Jardines in San Quintin early in the morning, why would he only drive a few hours and then pull over the side of the road. It appears to me he was headed towards Bahia de Los Angeles and could have made it in 4 to 5 hours (225 miles). Something fishy happened in those 2 hours on the road towards Bahia Los Angeles between San Quintin to Catavina on his way to BOLA. Maybe he stopped to use a restroom along the way and got ambushed? Either way it makes no sense for a man to only drive 3 hours and pull over to camp out. Reading the earlier posts, it was thought he was going to BOLA to photograph the whales and this could have been done easily in a half day drive, spend the day in BOLA and head back to SQ in 3 days as Shari had mentioned he was planning to do in one of her posts on the thread earlier but it was entirely possible to do this in 3 days judging by the distances. As far as traveling to a fish camp, better fishing could be had all around in SQ IMO.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

latina - 4-8-2014 at 10:20 AM

That is so sad. Nine months missing, 4 months since truck found and he's still missing and no actual search has taken place yet.
I hope that the beach area of Punta Canoa is popular with campers during Semana Santa and that the traffic will provide much needed presence and possibly uncover something useful. After all this time, worries about the "site" being disturbed seem kind of irrelevant...

Taco de Baja - 4-8-2014 at 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Taco,

Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines? Where in your opinion do you think he was headed before the turn off he took

I don't know where it was "assumed" he was headed, maybe that's buried in the 1,000+ replies to this thread with lots of differing opinions. I believe he was just exploring with no real set goal or local in mind. But, he clearly was not on the road to BOLA. In my opinion he was headed to the coastal areas north or south of Faro San Jose. There are several points here where he could have the surf break to himself, providing the swell was there.

However, I am troubled by the apparent lack of food and water in the vehicle. I always carry at least 1 gallon per person per day of water, plus beer and sodas. There should have been at least a jerry can of water or a case of bottles. Maybe the water was there and just has not been listed. Also, if you are going to spend the time to go that far off-road there should be a week of canned/dry goods. Were there any 5-gallon gas cans? Always a good idea to have extra fuel when way off the main roads; 4x4ing burns through a lot of gas.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 10:33 AM

Isn't Catavina on the road to BOLA? Shari said in the first few pages he had told someone he wanted to take pictures of the whales in BOLA? Was it possible he was on the main route and picked up a hitchhiker who robbed him and decided to take the car for a joyride before dumping it?

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Taco,

Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines? Where in your opinion do you think he was headed before the turn off he took

mtgoat666 - 4-8-2014 at 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
...it makes no sense for a man to only drive 3 hours and pull over to camp out.

actually, it makes lots of sense. he had no schedule, was free of commitments, and so could poke around and explore the desert on his own schedule. perhaps he heard of some rock art in the area, or an old mine to explore,...

any nomads know what archaeo or natural wonders are in that area that may have attracted him?

if he was running out of daylight, he may have decided to pull off on a random back road to camp for the night,...

Ateo - 4-8-2014 at 10:34 AM

I can't remember, did he have a cell phone and did the US carrier ever provide any type of triangulation?

Had Gary been out on this road in the past?

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 10:36 AM

Here is a quote from an earlier Nomad post:

posted on 9-12-2013 at 07:48 AM Reply With Quote Report Post to Administrator

My name is Jenn Patton, I am Dave and Molly's daughter. I am sending you a couple pictures of my Uncle Gary (Patton) and his vehicle that he is driving. He hasn't been heard from since last Wednesday when he arrived at Jardines Hotel in San Quintin.. He is driving a 2002 Toyota 4 Runner, Silver with a heavy duty roof rack.. He mentioned to my dad that he wanted to go see the whale sharks in Bahia de los Angeles.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 10:41 AM

THe key to this might be as to where the turnoff begins where Gary's car was found on the main road towards Catavina and if there are any gas stations or convenience stores in that area.

Ateo - 4-8-2014 at 10:43 AM

No gas stations or convenience stores in that area. Only to the south at Catavina. There's nothing at the turnoff except a constantly over flowing trash can.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 10:45 AM

what about north of that area Ateo? Towards San Quintin?

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:00 AM

It was posted that an employee at Jardines said that Gary told them he would be back at Jardines in about three days. As far as his plans on where he was going is not known.

All gas stations, convenience stores and hotels in and around Catavina, El Rosario, as well as Bahia de Los Angeles were contacted by Bajaguy, myself and Brian. Flyers were given to employees as well as taped to the front windows of these facilities. The police in Catavina were also contacted and flyers handed out.

Gary did not go any further south than Catavina on the highway.

During our search of this area last October my thoughts were that Gary probably did take a turn between BOLA and El Rosario and headed towards the ocean and it looks like I was right. The reason I did not search these beach camps is that there are to many of them and were very difficult to get to so we inundated the hwy. stores and gas stations and talked with anyone available in this area to get the word out and nothing-No phone calls or replies.

Ateo - 4-8-2014 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
what about north of that area Ateo? Towards San Quintin?

south of El Rosario to the turnoff is pretty much desert. No gas stations or stores south of El Rosario till you hit Catavina.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:05 AM

He might have stopped to use the rest room in El Rosario, picked up a hitchhiker and started talking with him and was then ambushed. Were there signs put up in El Rosario that Gary was missing?

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:11 AM

Dan why would Gary tell his son he was headed to BOLA to take pictures of whales. There was no fishing equipment in the car and from what I read he was not an avid fisherman. As I said before if he wanted to go fishing SQ would be the best place for that. The key to this whole mystery Dan is the camera. That is my mind clinches the destination of BOLA to take pictures of whales.

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
It was posted that an employee at Jardines said that Gary told them he would be back at Jardines in about three days. As far as his plans on where he was going is not known.

All gas stations, convenience stores and hotels in and around Catavina, El Rosario, as well as Bahia de Los Angeles were contacted by Bajaguy, myself and Brian. Flyers were given to employees as well as taped to the front windows of these facilities. The police in Catavina were also contacted and flyers handed out.

Gary did not go any further south than Catavina on the highway.

During our search of this area last October my thoughts were that Gary probably did take a turn between BOLA and El Rosario and headed towards the ocean and it looks like I was right. The reason I did not search these beach camps is that there are to many of them and were very difficult to get to so we inundated the hwy. stores and gas stations and talked with anyone available in this area to get the word out and nothing-No phone calls or replies.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:12 AM

Janene, Did you read my last post?

406 corrected miles to town of Catavina from Orange County (Westminister)
+62 estimated 100k from hwy 1 and tow back
from discovery location & ranch.
468 Known miles

733 Total miles since service, until stored at
Catavina Police Station
- 468 Known miles
265 "NEW" Unaccounted miles. But he had those 6 days to drive locally
before leaving for Baja.

msteve1014 - 4-8-2014 at 11:14 AM

He might have gone to the coast from El Rosario, camped out there for any amount of time, putting very few miles on the truck, and was heading BACK to hwy 1 when he got stuck. Of course, just another guess.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:17 AM

How about the ambusher taking a joy ride including getting rid of evidence and figuring out where to dump the car?

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Janene, Did you read my last post?

406 corrected miles to town of Catavina from Orange County (Westminister)
+62 estimated 100k from hwy 1 and tow back
from discovery location & ranch.
468 Known miles

733 Total miles since service, until stored at
Catavina Police Station
- 468 Known miles
265 "NEW" Unaccounted miles. But he had those 6 days to drive locally
before leaving for Baja.

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:19 AM

Slow down Janene. I don't know what taking photos of whales and Gary fishing has to do with one another and don't know if there was any fishing equipment was with Gary. I know that San Quintin is a great fishing location but so are a lot of others south of SQ.

Apparently Gary had been to BOLA before and wanted to see the whales and that is what he told his family but I really don't understand your question as to why he would tell his son that…..

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by lizard lips]

Cypress - 4-8-2014 at 11:20 AM

Something must have gone very bad for him. Or, he just possibly wanted to disappear? Either way, we can all speculate, gesticulate, or wring our hands. My condolences to his family.

willardguy - 4-8-2014 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by msteve1014
He might have gone to the coast from El Rosario, camped out there for any amount of time, putting very few miles on the truck, and was heading BACK to hwy 1 when he got stuck. Of course, just another guess.

there ya go, any fliers make it out to punta baja?

BajaNomad - 4-8-2014 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines?

It's only been mentioned that he indicated an interest.

He went to the effort of lugging a surfboard (in the passenger compartment no less), a boogie board, and a wetsuit. There ain't no surf in BOLA, and he indicated to the people at Jardines he was returning in 3 days.

The simplest explanation is always the most likely.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by BajaNomad]

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:24 AM

He was going to take pictures of whale sharks and be back in three days as he told the hotel, by the 8th. Five hours to BOLA from an early morning departure, arrives in BOLA with still plenty of time to the rest of the day to take pictures, stay one day, and get back to San Quintin by the 8th. He got ambushed somewhere between San Quintin and the turnoff. He never made it to Catavina. This was less than two hours into his departure. If he was headed to the coast from San Quintin which makes no sense, unless he wanted to fish. But the man had a camera in his car and told his son he wanted to go to BOLA to take pictures of whales. That was where he was headed in my opinion until he met his unfortunate fate.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:28 AM

Then why would you leave San Quintin when you have access to surf and fishing to drive an hour south?

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines?

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by BajaNomad]

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:28 AM

Janene, no one said Gary told the employees at jardines that he was headed to BOLA. Your making this very difficult in that many will get confused with the facts. I want your feedback but please keep to what has been posted.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:30 AM

Dan I just posted this, perhaps you missed it:

Here is a quote from an earlier Nomad post:

posted on 9-12-2013 at 07:48 AM Reply With Quote Report Post to Administrator

My name is Jenn Patton, I am Dave and Molly's daughter. I am sending you a couple pictures of my Uncle Gary (Patton) and his vehicle that he is driving. He hasn't been heard from since last Wednesday when he arrived at Jardines Hotel in San Quintin.. He is driving a 2002 Toyota 4 Runner, Silver with a heavy duty roof rack.. He mentioned to my dad that he wanted to go see the whale sharks in Bahia de los Angeles.

That would make perfect sense to bring a board to paddle out on and a wetsuit and his camera. This is all speculation Dan.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How about the ambusher taking a joy ride including getting rid of evidence and figuring out where to dump the car

How about prescribing yourself some meds to rein in your bizarre imagination?
"Ambush??" That's right out of "Platoon."

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:33 AM

I saw it janene-Where does it mention that this information came from the hotel?

BajaNomad - 4-8-2014 at 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

Then why would you leave San Quintin when you have access to surf and fishing to drive an hour south?

You're indicating your unfamiliarity with the activity of surfing.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 11:38 AM

The very first post was from Baja Blanca that said:

He is not an avid fisherman either...he just loves Baja, the people, the views.....He does not use plastic, he has enough cash to last him awhile.

So a fish camp doesn't seem likely without fishing equipment.

woody with a view - 4-8-2014 at 11:45 AM

without going back thru it all something is wrong, obviously! that little road he got stuck on is not a road someone would turn down to find a place to camp. he was close to the beach, it was probably noon if he drove from SQ after breakfast when he got to that spot.

I can drive from the border to the beach in that zone in 8 hours.......

BajaNomad - 4-8-2014 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The very first post was from Baja Blanca that said:

He is not an avid fisherman either...he just loves Baja, the people, the views.....He does not use plastic, he has enough cash to last him awhile.

So a fish camp doesn't seem likely without fishing equipment.

Janene, there are waves near fish camps. Just sayin'...

Perhaps, when a man has special knowledge and special powers like my own, it rather encourages him to seek a complex explanation when a simpler one is at hand.

- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Cypress - 4-8-2014 at 11:50 AM

We can all speculate as to what might possibly have happened with Gary. Facts are; he's made no contact with relatives or anyone else, no credit/debit card transactions on his accounts, no anything. My condolences to his family.

TMW - 4-8-2014 at 11:52 AM

If he stopped at the PEMEX in El Rosario Antonio would have it on his security camera video.

woody with a view - 4-8-2014 at 12:11 PM

from 6 months ago? maybe..... we usually stop at the Pinos in south SQ as ER is always so busy.....

Mexitron - 4-8-2014 at 12:15 PM

Coming in on the San Jose road to surf at Canoas doesn't make too much sense---its backtracking/extra mileage. Perhaps he drove to Canoas on the north road, camped for awhile, then wanted to head south to the Sisters, so he used the connector road the truck was found near. What does that do to the mileage? BTW there is also a coastal connector road from Canoas to Faro San Jose but its a little more treacherous in spots...had he known that he would have taken the inland connector where the truck was found near.

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 12:15 PM

These professionals in the San Diego area have noticed the disjointed confusion being presented in this thread and graciously offered their services:

http://www.gigmasters.com/Search/Psychic-San-Diego-CA.html

absinvestor - 4-8-2014 at 12:27 PM

There is another thing that is puzzling to me. I have been stuck more times than I would like to admit. After lowering tire pressure, shoveling away sand (or snow), rocking back and forth etc I always jacked up the car and put something under the tires. Isn't jacking the car up common or it that just a technique that worked for me?

willardguy - 4-8-2014 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
These professionals in the San Diego area have noticed the disjointed confusion being presented in this thread and graciously offered their services:

http://www.gigmasters.com/Search/Psychic-San-Diego-CA.html

gosh, how do you pick one?? they all seem so professional! :lol:

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

gosh, how do you pick one?? they all seem so professional! :lol:

It's all in the name:

http://www.gigmasters.com/Psychic/Judy-Hevenly

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 12:51 PM

What you posted is below. I think what you meant in your post was that he was going to be back in three days, which he did in fact tell them but he didn't tell the employees at jardines that he was going to BOLA and did not mention taking photos of Whale Sharks….It's all good janene!

He was going to take pictures of whale sharks and be back in three days as he told the hotel,

TMW - 4-8-2014 at 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
from 6 months ago? maybe..... we usually stop at the Pinos in south SQ as ER is always so busy.....

Since the car was found March 4 go back from there for as long as he has recorded. I don't know how long he keeps the video. I'll ask.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 12:58 PM

Yes Dan that is what I meant that is why I deleted my response as I was going to clarify it. TW and Woody have great ideas on checking out security videos but I don't think they go back that far. But someone might remember something. Also retracing the drive and in those areas where the car was found might yield other clues if they keep a lookout in all directions while driving slowly.

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
What you posted is below. I think what you meant in your post was that he was going to be back in three days, which he did in fact tell them but he didn't tell the employees at jardines that he was going to BOLA and did not mention taking photos of Whale Sharks….It's all good janene!

He was going to take pictures of whale sharks and be back in three days as he told the hotel,

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 01:06 PM

What do you call someone who assaults a driver and robs him?Ambush can also mean a surprise attack. I am sure Gary presented himself as a friendly guy trying to help someone out and got more than he bargained for. The robber knew that the car was hot and dumped it. Makes more sense than him pulling in miles off the main road only after 2 hours into his trip and no one seeing him.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How about the ambusher taking a joy ride including getting rid of evidence and figuring out where to dump the car

How about prescribing yourself some meds to rein in your bizarre imagination?
"Ambush??" That's right out of "Platoon."

Pages: 1 .. 10 11 12 13 14 .. 24