BajaNomad - The palm tree is going two feet under water

Goat,

Your net metered PV will be useless unless your system “islands” in blackouts or during local service issues. I still have that spare 10KW propane generator for sale.

Power outages are very rare in my neighborhood, outages are a few minutes, perhaps once per year, and have never lasted more than 24 hours. I have no need for a backup generator.
Even if the power went out for a week or more, I know how to survive w/o electricity; do you?
Generator sounds like a huge waste of money. Do you want me to teach you how to light a candle or turn on a flashlight? How to cook over a camp stove, bbq or fire?

surabi - 5-28-2023 at 02:11 PM

Oh, but these gringoes "can't survive" in hot weather without AC, Goat. No dishwasher? No cold beer? Life or death situation.

Where I live, within about 3 minutes of the power going out, you hear the gringoes' generators fire up, shattering the peace and quiet, a constant annoying rumble. The Mexicans and I seem to get through the outage just fine without instantly running for the fossil fuel machines.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by surabi]

SFandH - 5-28-2023 at 03:00 PM

Oh, but these gringoes "can't survive" in hot weather without AC, Goat. No dishwasher? No cold beer? Life or death situation.

Where I live, within about 3 minutes of the power going out, you hear the gringoes' generators fire up, shattering the peace and quiet, a constant annoying rumble. The Mexicans and I seem to get through the outage just fine without instantly running for the fossil fuel machines.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by surabi]

For 7 months every year, we live with a 100-watt panel and two medium-sized AGM Optima batteries that get fully charged every day. Cold beer, a necessity, is done with propane. I'm on the grid for the other 5 months.

Small is beautiful, less is more. Think global, act local. Conserve.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by SFandH]

JZ - 5-28-2023 at 04:10 PM

[/rquote]

For 7 months every year, we live with a 100-watt panel and two medium-sized AGM Optima batteries that get fully charged every day. Cold beer, a necessity, is done with propane. I'm on the grid for the other 5 months.

Small is beautiful, less is more. Think global, act local. Conserve.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by SFandH]

I admire this. I'd like to think I could live on a boat. With Starlink of course.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by JZ]

RFClark - 5-29-2023 at 03:07 AM

Goat,

Thanks for the offer, but been there, done that! The generator is surplus because we have enough solar in BCS to live comfortably and green!

JDCanuck - 5-29-2023 at 05:39 AM

RFClark: I am constantly amazed by what we don't see coming from the Engineers and suddenly every preconception gets thrown out. The Ford lightning power to house concept combined with residential power walls suddenly flipped the need for massive grid changes on its head, allowing for individual storage backups in every neighbourhood once it is broadly rolled out.

Now to tackle the water shortage problems. We have enough excess solar power installed to generate close to 50gpd demineralized and purified water using a Genaq atmospheric water generator system if my energy calcs are correct. Side benefit on a properly designed system is free hot water production on the condenser side of the refrigeration system. Cost? So far I haven't been able to obtain any firm quotes.

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by JDCanuck]

Cliffy - 5-29-2023 at 06:27 AM

The world's constant need for more electricity balanced by those who wish to live in caves - seems to be the current mantra,
Maybe if we had more cave dwellers then the failing power grid in Calif would be pushed off for a few more years?

The losers in the race for electricity are always the developing countries, THEY need low cost power to survive let alone prosper and GREEN power ain't it. Only coal right now solves that problem. Its been postulated that bringing the impoverished out of their hole to the tune $5000 USD / yr / person would bring about more thinking on THEIR part to find better electrical solutions than coal but until then, for them, coal is a matter of survival.

Coal ain't going away any time soon in the majority of the world. To think that a minor segment of the world, spending trillions of dollars on GREEN will make an overall difference in the world's climate (as the developing nations build more coal power plants) is pure folly.

Its only a self-serving game of "Look how good I am! I'm going GREEN! But with no realized gains anywhere, in the long term.

Solve poverty world wide and you solve the emissions problem. Ignore it and you make no real progress on your espoused views.

The further debate as to what will ACTUALLY happen with a warming atmosphere is pure speculation with no hard facts to back it up. Its all speculation and guesses. Engineering models (guesses) that for the most part do not follow what is actually happening right now.

Tell me what the weather will be next year with high accuracy and I'll start to listen to the nonsense making news about the future 20 30 or 50 years from now. Nobody predicted this years extreme heavy snow falls in the western USA did they? If your prognostications are so good looking forward 20 or 30 years then this years winter weather should have been a no brainer don't ya think?

It remains a Chicken Little argument but- the sky is not falling anytime soon.

We do know that the atmosphere WAS a lot warmer back in history and the world survived quite nicely. More CO2 does let plants grow better and they give off oxygen.

Now we do have a lessening of the forest acreage worldwide but that is a function of food and power for the economically depressed part of the world earlier referred to. Again maybe if we brought them out of poverty we could lessen the impact of their power needs- IF that impact really is or will be an actual issue worldwide.

SFandH - 5-29-2023 at 06:49 AM

I admire this. I'd like to think I could live on a boat. With Starlink of course.

[Edited on 5-28-2023 by JZ]

Bahia Concepcion is a popular place to live aboard, except during hurricane season. The people I know that do it store their boats in Guaymas or San Carlos Sonora and sail/motor across the Sea of Cortez in the fall and back in the spring. Free anchorage and calm waters between Playa Santispac and Playa Coyote.

Their boats are in the 30 to 40-foot range, some smaller some bigger, sail and power. During the hurricane season, their boats are stored in a boatyard, usually in San Carlos.

These days they all have solar power and most have Starlink.

Covid 19 pandemic responsible for the record Sierra snow pack!

AKgringo - 5-29-2023 at 07:18 AM

This is not my theory, but a neighbor was telling me about a climate expert (who he could not name) who was explaining how the lock-downs, travel restrictions and lower industrial activity in China resulted in far less pollution in the Pacific atmosphere.

According to him, the Chinese output of air pollutants has been causing the below average precipitation of recent decades, and the decerease in their production is responsible for a return of the wet, heavy winters of the past.

There are plenty of theories out there, time will sort them out!

mtgoat666 - 5-29-2023 at 09:01 AM

Goat,

Thanks for the offer, but been there, done that! The generator is surplus because we have enough solar in BCS to live comfortably and green!

Power outages of significant duration happen maybe once in 20 years. I don’t need a backup generator for a problem I never or rarely have.
If you live in Pakistan where you have brown outs or black out every day, then maybe you need a generator.
If you live off the grid and did not build a large enough battery bank for your solar PV, then maybe you need a generator.
Why buy/maintain 2 power generating systems when with a bit of wise planning 1 system will do? :?:

Maintain your system properly and you won’t experience failure that requires a backup system :light:

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by mtgoat666]

JZ - 5-29-2023 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Goat,

Thanks for the offer, but been there, done that! The generator is surplus because we have enough solar in BCS to live comfortably and green!

Maintain your system properly and you won’t experience failure that requires a backup system :light:

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by mtgoat666]

That use to be the case in CA. Definitely not true now.

My kid had 3 half day outages in Santa Cruz in March. We have had rolling brown outs around our neighborhood in LA for the last 5-10 years when it get hot.

Everytime there are fires they shut the power off on tens of thousands of ppl.

RFClark - 5-29-2023 at 10:03 AM

Goat,

You’re the one who posted “the grid is falling” article. My several generations of experience is have backups and spares because chit happens just when you’re ready to go live.

I learned AC power and Air Conditioning by having to fix stuff in the field.

Things that matter usually have 2 redundant primaries, a backup and a battery backup as the last resort.

Nothing worse than loosing power on a dark night flying IFR. Boeing on the original 7 series had an alternator plus a TR buss for each engine and battery backup. Any one of which could power the AC. That was in an AC series that could fly with all the power off!

That said even Boeing can FU. The 727s with the Flight Engineer station ran all the AC & DC power through the same conduit to and from the FE station. They lost 1 or possibly 2 737s, one in SM Bay off LAX before a 3rd AC had a daytime failure. They (the 3rd AC) survived the smoke filled c-ckpit by opening the copilot’s side window to clear the smoke. Smoke from a fire in the power feed buss to the FE station. The plane landed with all power out!

So I like backups! Call me insecure, but also call me prepared because Murphy can outbid your worst nightmares!

[Edited on 5-30-2023 by RFClark]

SFandH - 5-29-2023 at 11:10 AM

RFClark: I am constantly amazed by what we don't see coming from the Engineers and suddenly every preconception gets thrown out. The Ford lightning power to house concept combined with residential power walls suddenly flipped the need for massive grid changes on its head, allowing for individual storage backups in every neighbourhood once it is broadly rolled out.

I don't understand. Are you saying using your BEV to power your house when the grid is down? If so, how does that change the grid requirements and design?

BajaTed - 5-29-2023 at 11:31 AM

"Luckily for homeowners with energy storage in California, the program has made changes to promote major incentives for CA home batteries. First, and most importantly, homeowners who are customers of either PG&E, SCE, SCG, or SDG&E will be eligible for an incentive as high as $200 per kilowatt-hour (kWh) when you install a home battery."

I'm seriously considering adding a battery system to my home solar system. If you shed your load during a peak load event, they will pay you handsomely.

Cliffy - 5-29-2023 at 11:34 AM

RFClark- You are mostly correct about the Boeing 7 series of jets- multiple backups for the electrical side of things.

4 eng and 3 engine Boeings had alternating current (AC) generators and the airplane was an AC airplane unlike our cars that are DC powered.
Each generator could power the most important electrical items by itself if needed. 1 generator "could" allow the airplane to land with everything necessary without compromising safety.

There were numerous times that Boeings had electrical "issues" where all the backups allowed the flight to complete without problems.
In fact there are check lists and maint procedures that allow certain items to be inoperative for even passenger flights. Such was the issue on the 727 (not 737) that you noted that went into Santa Monica Bay. That crash brought about a very important revision to the safety rules that stands even to today in ALL jet transport aircraft- THE 3RD ARTIFICIAL HORIZON INSTRUMENT.

Back then (1969, I was working at LA that night) a United Airlines 727 was dispatched with one of the 3 generators inoperative, Quite legal even today on 3 or more engine airplanes,
After takeoff one of the 2 running generators quit and all the load from all the electrical items on the airplane were thrown on to the one remaining generator. That big load was more than the one generator was capable of handling.

In this case the procedure was for the Flight Engineer to "down load" the electrical draw by turning off the galley power that went to the ovens cooking the inflight meals.
Instead of turning off the "Galley Power" he turned off the switch that controlled the ship's battery. Once the battery was turned off ALL electrical power in the airplane was turned off and the c-ckpit went dark and all the flight instruments died. It was a dark and stormy night with no outside visibility.

He hit the wrong switch because at that time the Battery switch and the Galley power switches were located right next to each other and shaped the same way.

With no electrical power to power both of the pilot's instruments they lost control and crashed into the bay. So even with all the AC backups they still had a deadly problem'

After the NTSB discovered what actually caused the problem the FAA mandated that ALL jet aircraft had to have a 3rd attitude indicator on the front panel independently powered not by any other power system in the airplane (typically powered by a separate, independent battery that can not be turned off.

Another layer of backups!

tomieharder - 5-29-2023 at 11:50 AM

It would have been smarter to just change the battery switch so that the battery cannot be disconnected if the landing gear squat switch is open (which means the airplane is flying). Since you need battery voltage to excite the alternators anyway, it makes little sense to turn them off. The batteries are fused in case they short out or overload.

Commercial aircraft use 400Hz to save weight.

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by tomieharder]

Cliffy - 5-29-2023 at 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tomieharder

It would have been smarter to just change the battery switch so that the battery cannot be disconnected if the landing gear squat switch is open (which means the airplane is flying). Since you need battery voltage to excite the alternators anyway, it makes little sense to turn them off. The batteries are fused in case they short out or overload.

Commercial aircraft use 400Hz to save weight.

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by tomieharder]

You are correct IF they had thought of that possibility in the design BUT the original design was a carry over in many ways from WWII and earlier Boeings (B-17, B-29, etc)
Part of the "fix" was to move the Galley power switch away from the battery switch to avoid the issue all together.
The flight engineer was also new to the job and caught in one of the most demanding "emergencies" that can happen in a jet aircraft "Loss of all AC power" in IMC conditions, in the era before the 3rd gyro.

Yes, 400 cycle power does have advantages in power distribution due to lighter wiring being able to be used in place of DC power.

willardguy - 5-29-2023 at 12:40 PM

I blame Fishbuck! :lol:

just kidding Mike

JDCanuck - 5-29-2023 at 01:52 PM

I don't understand. Are you saying using your BEV to power your house when the grid is down? If so, how does that change the grid requirements and design?

Yes, SFandH. Exactly that plus they can feed the grid demand, if there is a huge power demand as in the case of a system breaker trip from one of the major suppliers, the multiple installed home batteries or vehicle to home EV's can pick up the increased demand spread out across the grid. At present, the utilities have to install huge battery systems to handle the demand fluctuations.
When I last worked in the Power generating plants decades ago, we had a west coast grid that spread from Saskatchewan in Canada, through our two western provinces, down the west coast through California and to Four Corners New Mexico. When a large generating unit in California or a system transmission breaker tripped due to excess power demand flow, every remaining unit online would suck down in speed for about 1 1/2 seconds as they attempted to maintain grid frequency. This is when the additional transmission breakers would start tripping and leading to full blackouts across the grid. Having a large number of home battery systems tied in and supplying power in milliseconds would stabilize the cascading trips you would otherwise see.

[Edited on 5-29-2023 by JDCanuck]

SFandH - 5-29-2023 at 03:03 PM

I don't understand. Are you saying using your BEV to power your house when the grid is down? If so, how does that change the grid requirements and design?

So, if the utility needs some juice you may find your house/car batteries discharged so your neighbor who doesn't have batteries can keep running his AC?

Also, I guess the power company would need to reimburse the consumers for the power draw.

Hmmmm.

JDCanuck - 5-29-2023 at 03:23 PM

Thats why the utilities essentially pay you to recharge them in off-peak hours and charge you more to draw from the grid in peak hours. If you don't want them tied to the grid, you can always put a timer on them. I suspect most won't and will want them online as backups for their own sake.
They have you foot the costs upfront to provide grid stability rather than install their massive batteries instead. You get the payback at extremely cheap power costs over the years your battery installation operates.
2.5c per kwh instead of 12c is a pretty big incentive to get you onboard

RFClark - 5-29-2023 at 09:25 PM

Cliffy,

My bad it was a 727 three holler. I was in FE school at the time and our instructor was a life FE. He knew a lot of people. The 727 that had the electrical buss fire had just happened. It was his opinion that the SM Bay crash was caused by the same problem and possibly one other as well. My recollection is that there was an big AD note on the subject of defective wiring harnesses.

My point was having multiple backups with a design feature that can take all of them out at once is deadly.

RFClark - 5-29-2023 at 09:30 PM

SF&H,

Here is how it works.

https://electrek.co/2021/07/16/tesla-launches-virtual-power-...

People are making money doing this.

Cliffy - 5-30-2023 at 08:18 AM

RFClark I agree

We've had 2 crashes with hydraulic failures for the same reason.
A 727 and a DC-10 crashed because all the hydraulic systems for the flight controls (designed with 2 or 3 systems for redundancy) were cut in half because they all transited one area together and that area was impacted by a midair in the case of a 727 and a #2 engine explosion in the case of the DC-10
All hydraulics lost- ALL flight controls lost.

Returning to a BAJA subject- even with well planned backups, s*&t happens. Unplanned consequences occur. Nothing is 100%

I'm wondering what the payback time is with the new power walls factoring in the life replacement costs
What is the replacement time (cycles) and will that system be around when replacement time comes or will an entire new system be needed because the old one is obsolete for market?

If one CAN live off grid (and it can be done with certain sacrifices) then well and good. Go for it!
But its not for everyone and it shouldn't be mandated just for the feel good aspect.

200 year ago we lived by candles and water buckets
Civilization advanced to the age of electrical power and indoor plumbing and air conditioning
Now it seems some want all to return to 200 years ago.

The sky is not falling

Some people need to read opinions and documentation by well degreed dissenters to the current climate mantra and not just listen to talking heads on TV. People with just a good of educational and research backgrounds as those proposing doom in the next decade.
The science is not settled by any means.

JDCanuck - 5-30-2023 at 10:07 AM

Returning to a BAJA subject- even with well planned backups, s*&t happens. Unplanned consequences occur. Nothing is 100%

Cliffy, this is why the utilities keep redesigning their grids to reduce the outages over the decades since we became reliant on electricity in rural areas as well as cities. Our biggest disruptions where we live are related to ice laden major transmission lines suddenly collapsing in winter, or wildfires taking out those same lines due to inadequate spacing and clearing of surrounding brush. In Baja, it seems to be the major hurricane storms that are the culprits, and neighbours relying on CFE are quite used to being without power for up to 2 weeks at a time every year when the storms hit. I have seen stories of people in remote areas being trapped without access to power, food, or water for those periods pretty commonly.
Pretty hard to prepare fully for all the future possibilities, but once again the more localized your backup power supplies are, the better protected we all are.

mtgoat666 - 5-30-2023 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

200 year ago we lived by candles and water buckets
Civilization advanced to the age of electrical power and indoor plumbing and air conditioning
Now it seems some want all to return to 200 years ago.

Seems to me that you people buying generators to be prepared for infrequent/rare power outages are being silly.
How is an rare 1-hr or 3-day power outage returning to 1823 living conditions?
Was 1823 horrible living conditions?

Questions for you prepers:
Got MREs in your bunker? Is you pantry stocked with canned goods?
How are you preparing for global warming? (Bigger and more frequent hurricanes, higher summer temps, colder/wetter winters)
Do you have enough guns, ammunition and body armor/helmets to fight off hordes or zombies for 6 months of anarchy and social distortion?
What is more important for surviving the siege, a backup generator or 100,000 rounds of ammo?
Which is better location to hunker down and try to survive the post-apocalypse (or rapture), Mexico or USA?

[Edited on 5-30-2023 by mtgoat666]

JDCanuck - 5-30-2023 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Questions for you prepers:
Do you have enough guns, ammunition and body armor/helmets to fight off hordes or zombies for 6 months of anarchy and social distortion?
What is more important for surviving the siege, a backup generator or 100,000 rounds of ammo?

Well, it might be a bit difficult obtaining 100,000 rounds of ammo where I live as the criminal element seems to have a lock on that market, whereas that backup generator to overcome long periods of power outages is quite cheap and readily accessible. Are you really storing that much ammo for such an improbable event? Is your underground bomb shelter also stocked sufficiently for what you expect the future to bring?

This seems to be a more immediate concern to us at present, and has impacts we would all be wise to consider as we travel back and forth. :
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-05-25/mexico...

[Edited on 5-30-2023 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 5-30-2023 at 04:18 PM

Goat,

Got fire extinguishers?

“The last of us” proved guns are ineffective against Zombies. High current solar electric fences and fuel air bombs work better (what was it Frances Ford said about Napalm in the morning?)

MREs are so 60’s and only last a couple of years. Freeze dried food packed in nitrogen gas is good for 25 years. Local grown vegetables and eggs. (36 free range large brown eggs $133 pesos at COSTCO Cabo) Zombies don’t do well crossing deserts.

1823, how do you feel about Cholera, Typhus, Typhoid Fever and Yellow fever? 1823 was their year! How do you feel about dentistry w/o anesthesia? Surgery without anesthesia? (Not until 1846!)

JDCanuck - 5-31-2023 at 08:54 AM

Looking to be yet another challenging summer both in CA and Baja. Predictions on Pacific Coast of Baja are for a stronger than average storm season.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/2023-hurricane-...

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/facing-sweltering-summers-...

[Edited on 5-31-2023 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 6-2-2023 at 07:47 AM

JD,

The temperatures in the Todos Santos area are still running in the 60s or low 70s during the day and low 60s at night, lots of cold water offshore.

IMG_4269.jpeg - 124kB

[Edited on 6-2-2023 by RFClark]

JDCanuck - 6-2-2023 at 09:13 AM

RFC: I was just thinking about your place and the very impressive hurricane shutters you had designed and built locally. I would have loved to have done the same, but due to not having your contacts we opted for the laminated hurricane windows instead, which should have been completed this week. Hope this proves adequate for our purposes when worst of the storm season hits this fall and the construction waste expected around us picks up.

And yes, we noted the temps up where we were were running substantially cooler than normal right up to when I flew out a couple weeks back, I assume affected by the colder than normal offshore ocean temps. I had been running heat pumps on heating mode ever since January, not a bit of cooling required. It's actually been warmer up here on the west coast of Canada lately in late afternoons.

[Edited on 6-2-2023 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 6-2-2023 at 09:17 AM

JD,

All you need at ground level are steel frames and 5/8” plywood. We’re doing those now. Pictures soon.

mtgoat666 - 6-2-2023 at 09:20 AM

JD,

The temperatures in the Todos Santos area are still running in the 60s or low 70s during the day and low 60s at night, lots of cold water offshore.

clarkles:
you need to plant something to cover all that bare soil and brown weedy stuff. plant some low water natives, you can even find some things like mesquite, palo verde, etc, that can provide filtered shade.
vegetation is a good carbon sink, much of that carbon sink is invisible fungal below grade

JDCanuck - 6-2-2023 at 09:25 AM

JD,

All you need at ground level are steel frames and 5/8” plywood. We’re doing those now. Pictures soon.

Yes, we costed that and also the roll down metal shutters out as alternatives. Our neighbours for the most part put up temporary plywood sheet covers each time they get a storm warning, but we will be stuck up here so needed something in place throughout. And of course, we have zero control over debris from construction projects surrounding us.

[Edited on 6-2-2023 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 6-2-2023 at 11:43 AM

Goat,

I’ll post some pictures of our gray water recycling system and landscaping thoughts on the container post.

RFClark - 6-3-2023 at 09:03 AM

Goat,

Watch the youtube it’s the latest in Zombie Preper off-road tech ($93K) even I think it’s a waste of money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMKMYi0UQU

SFandH - 6-3-2023 at 10:26 AM

Goat,

Watch the youtube it’s the latest in Zombie Preper off-road tech ($93K) even I think it’s a waste of money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMKMYi0UQU

hahaha, quote:

"If it's the end of the world you want to make sure you have spare tires for your trailer."

Totally ridiculous.

surabi - 6-3-2023 at 11:25 AM

Where exactly would one go with their trailer, if it's the end of the world? What would they fuel the vehicle they're pulling it with if there is no gas or diesel and the electrical grid is non-functional? These people think real life is like some Mad Max movie.

In an end of the world as we know it scenario, if anyone survives, it will be the people who have knowledge and skills to try to grow food, to know which plants are edible and medicinal, who are adept at fashioning things into something else, those who are accustomed living simply, and those who work with others for the common good, not the people who hoarded and have an every man for himself attitude.

[Edited on 6-3-2023 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2023 at 05:22 PM

Where exactly would one go with their trailer, if it's the end of the world? What would they fuel the vehicle they're pulling it with if there is no gas or diesel and the electrical grid is non-functional? These people think real life is like some Mad Max movie.

In an end of the world as we know it scenario, if anyone survives, it will be the people who have knowledge and skills to try to grow food, to know which plants are edible and medicinal, who are adept at fashioning things into something else, those who are accustomed living simply, and those who work with others for the common good, not the people who hoarded and have an every man for himself attitude.

[Edited on 6-3-2023 by surabi]

Key prepper supplies:
Ammunition
Liquor
Library of how-to books.

If rioting breaks out at the end of days, i will drive around town and loot the gun shops, liquor stores and libraries!

RFClark - 6-3-2023 at 05:42 PM

👍👍👍

RFClark - 6-15-2023 at 09:02 AM

This is where this discussion belongs:

S,

Read the words GFE. The possible human addition to 15000MM of sea level rise is at most 200MM over the last 100 years.

It turns out that “The terrible Climate Change Induced Wildfires” in Australia actually cooled the ocean, extended the La Niñia and caused massive rain falls in both Australia and the US. One must wonder if the wildfires in Canada will do the same? One also must wonder if the living things on the earth have more experience and a far longer view on dealing with change than do those who you support.

Also again, our differences are over my belief that the actions suggested by those who you support can’t address the root source of the problem. The current sorry state of SFO as an example of that.

That not whether the climate is changing is the issue GFE.

If that really is “your picture” you have in fact achieved your stated goal.

surabi - 6-15-2023 at 09:53 AM

GFE? What do you think that means? It's a term used by female sex workers to indicate they are willing to act as if they are a girlfriend to a john.
WTF is wrong with you?

David K - 6-15-2023 at 09:56 AM

This has been the coolest and wettest June in San Diego I can remember, living here for 65 years!
It was raining this morning!! It never rained after May 1... until November or December, except for a freak tropical storm coming up from Baja!
Global Cooling, I tell you all! LOL

Seriously, it is just unusual (for us) weather, not climate change (which happens over hundreds to thousands of years). Who's to say that the past 64 years was the 'odd' weather and that this cool and wet May & June in the norm? We need to see hundreds of years weather reports to really know what in 'normal' or not. Since we have been scientifically monitoring weather for not much over 125 years and measuring seal level with satellites for maybe 30-40 years, there is just not much data on what is 'normal' weather.

I can tell you this, warmer weather is a lot better for humans than colder! Crop and food production, health and happiness, and with those you have more thinking time to be creative!

surabi - 6-15-2023 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I can tell you this, warmer weather is a lot better for humans than colder! Crop and food production, health and happiness, and with those you have more thinking time to be creative!

Your idiotic statements just keep coming.
No, 110 degree + heat, which is being experienced in lots of places, is not "better for humans", it results in the opposite of health and happiness- people die or end up in the hospital at those extreme temps. I suggest you ask the people who are experiencing 107+ degree relentless heat in many places all over the world right now if it's leading to "health and happiness and "more time to think".

Or are you under the impression that everyone on the planet has a nice air-conditioned house to hang out in, and an air-conditioned car to drive around? Maybe it's just fine with you that those who don't have those things suffer?

Nor do crops grow properly at those temps and with drought conditions that are so prevalent now.

I doubt that "more thinking time" would ever result in you coming up with anything but more blind, absurd nonsense.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 6-15-2023 at 10:17 AM

S,

Leave it to you to bring sex into the discussion. “GFE” in the pre wireless days meant after hoisting an important message fire a gun for emphasis. Like an exclamation mark after a sentence which you don’t like.

surabi - 6-15-2023 at 10:36 AM

Oh yeah, well your definition of that acronym isn't mentioned in any definitions I could find.

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2023 at 10:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

This has been the coolest and wettest June in San Diego I can remember, living here for 65 years!
It was raining this morning!! It never rained after May 1... until November or December, except for a freak tropical storm coming up from Baja!
Global Cooling, I tell you all! LOL

Seriously, it is just unusual (for us) weather, not climate change (which happens over hundreds to thousands of years). Who's to say that the past 64 years was the 'odd' weather and that this cool and wet May & June in the norm? We need to see hundreds of years weather reports to really know what in 'normal' or not. Since we have been scientifically monitoring weather for not much over 125 years and measuring seal level with satellites for maybe 30-40 years, there is just not much data on what is 'normal' weather.

I can tell you this, warmer weather is a lot better for humans than colder! Crop and food production, health and happiness, and with those you have more thinking time to be creative!

Dk:
Your are myopic. Your experience of local conditions in San Diego north county is not representative of the conditions experienced elsewhere in the world.

mtgoat666 - 6-15-2023 at 10:44 AM

S,

Leave it to you to bring sex into the discussion. “GFE” in the pre wireless days meant after hoisting an important message fire a gun for emphasis. Like an exclamation mark after a sentence which you don’t like.

Clarkles:
Now you are making stuff up to backpedal on your crude, misogynistic faux pas.

JZ - 6-15-2023 at 11:23 AM

GFE? What do you think that means? It's a term used by female sex workers to indicate they are willing to act as if they are a girlfriend to a john.
WTF is wrong with you?

It meant Good Faith Estimate to me.

But leave it to you to head straight for the gutter. I'm now wondering how you knew that interpretation.

JZ - 6-15-2023 at 11:36 AM

Speaking of the Canadian wild fires, of course all the Climate Crisis exaggerators latched onto that to campaign for more funds and power to be given to them.

But they totally ignored the fact that Canada, just like California, has been woefully neglect in controlled burns. Nor did they tell you that the Co2 emissions from the fires have likely wiped out all of the reduction gains they have made in the last 10 years.

Mother Nature is more powerful than Government.

RFClark - 6-15-2023 at 12:18 PM

You all should read more.

“The Aubrey-Maturin series consists of 20 books written by pseudo-Irish author Patrick O'Brian (born Richard Patrick Russ). The series takes place during The Napoleonic Wars.”

Jack Aubrey uses the phrase Fire a Gun (for emphasis) often.

surabi - 6-15-2023 at 02:57 PM

You all should read more.

“The Aubrey-Maturin series consists of 20 books written by pseudo-Irish author Patrick O'Brian (born Richard Patrick Russ). The series takes place during The Napoleonic Wars.”

Jack Aubrey uses the phrase Fire a Gun (for emphasis) often.

And your point is? "Fire a Gun doesn't translate to the acronym GFE.

surabi - 6-15-2023 at 03:00 PM

GFE? What do you think that means? It's a term used by female sex workers to indicate they are willing to act as if they are a girlfriend to a john.
WTF is wrong with you?

It meant Good Faith Estimate to me.

But leave it to you to head straight for the gutter. I'm now wondering how you knew that interpretation.

I had never heard that acronym before and there's no need to "wonder" how I knew that interpretation nor make stupid inferences- Google it- it's the interpretation that comes up first and by far the most.

[Edited on 6-15-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 6-15-2023 at 10:00 PM

Posted because if you read all the words there are 11 year cycles in this phenomenon that also effect cloud formation (climate) that as yet can’t be linked to a source of the cycles.

https://www.earth.com/news/breakthrough-surges-of-cosmic-rad...

JZ - 6-16-2023 at 06:28 PM

Well, so much for global warming.

Las Vegas has had 280+ days w/o hitting 100. And in a few days, based on the current forecast, will beat the all-time record set some 60 years ago.

The climate crisis is a top 5 grift of all time.

[Edited on 6-17-2023 by JZ]

surabi - 6-16-2023 at 06:46 PM

Las Vegas is not the center of the universe from which all climate change is measured, JZ. You post the most absurd things in trying to deny the man-made climate change crisis. It's over 100 degrees in many places around the world which have never before experienced those temps.

Just be honest and speak the truth- you don't care at all about the climate crisis unless it affects you directly. Everything else is just a vehicle for you to bash those who are trying to work towards solutions.

RFClark - 6-16-2023 at 08:56 PM

S,

You be honest your bunch doesn’t have a plan to stop the increases let alone reverse them. They don’t have a plan to stop the destruction the Russians are causing to the environment either. Then there are the Indians and the Chinese certainly no plan there!

[Edited on 6-17-2023 by RFClark]

SFandH - 6-17-2023 at 03:59 AM

They don’t have a plan to stop the destruction the Russians are causing to the environment either. Then there are the Indians and the Chinese certainly no plan there!

[Edited on 6-17-2023 by RFClark]

Are you making the argument that since there are those that don't do the right thing, nobody should?

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 08:53 AM

SF&H,

No, I do my part now. I do it because it not only cleans up the place it saves resources. I’m not saying there isn’t any problem. I’m pointing out to some who take this as a religion that only dealing with part of the problem won’t, in the end, solve any of the problem.

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 12:34 PM

SH&F,

According to the best Climate minds if we don't reverse, not slow down, but reverse emissions in a few years it will be too late to stop the disaster.

What is currently proposed won't accomplish that. Either force the global worst offenders to get on board or stop singling out North America and Europe to do the heavy lifting which even if completely done won't save the world.

We all breath the same air. It’s everyone’s problem not just ours.

SFandH - 6-18-2023 at 12:37 PM

So North America and Europe shouldn't do all that is reasonable because other countries aren't playing ball?

JZ - 6-18-2023 at 12:50 PM

So North America and Europe shouldn't do all that is reasonable because other countries aren't playing ball?

Until Nuclear is taken seriously this is just one big waste of time.

Blackrock pressured Chevron to not take on a project because of emissions standards. The project is now moving forward with PetroChina. Blackrock has a significant investment stake in PetroChina.

EV's will help with air quality in big cities, but very little otherwise.

If you don't know this is about money, control, and power you are very, very naive.

[Edited on 6-18-2023 by JZ]

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 12:59 PM

SH&F,

No, NA & E should take it seriously and besides “doing the right thing” force others to also do the “right thing”.

“Power flows down the barrel of a gun” Mao Zedong

SFandH - 6-18-2023 at 01:04 PM

Until Nuclear is taken seriously this is just one big waste of time.

If you don't know this is about money.......

[Edited on 6-18-2023 by JZ]

Money is why nuclear plants aren't being built. They're extremely expensive to build, and it takes a long time.

Fossil fuel plants require a much smaller capital investment and yield a quicker return on investment.

You're right, it's all about money.

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 01:14 PM

SH&F,

If true the people with money will do fine. Those w/o won’t which will also solve the problem.

That may sound harsh but “Lifeboat rules” apply here. The Russians and Iranians won’t stop selling oil until they run out. The Chinese and Indians ditto for both oil and coal.

A nuclear war will also solve the problem.

JZ - 6-18-2023 at 01:19 PM

Until Nuclear is taken seriously this is just one big waste of time.

If you don't know this is about money.......

[Edited on 6-18-2023 by JZ]

The Govt. spends a lot of money. They should help with Nuclear investments. This is much better for the planet than solar and wind farms.

SFandH - 6-18-2023 at 01:24 PM

Here are the top 5 CO2 emitters, 2016 data. The number is tons per person. Maybe the US could do better.

1 China 7.38
2 United States 15.52
3 India 1.91
4 Russia 11.44
5 Japan 9.70

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-pe...

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 02:06 PM

Top 10 CO2-emitting countries in the world (Total CO2 in Mt) - EU JRC 2020

China — 11680.42
United States — 4535.30
India — 2411.73
Russia — 1674.23
Japan — 1061.77
Iran — 690.24
Germany — 636.88
South Korea — 621.47
Saudi Arabia — 588.81
Indonesia — 568.27

SFandH - 6-18-2023 at 03:54 PM

Top 10 CO2-emitting countries in the world (Total CO2 in Mt) - EU JRC 2020

China — 11680.42
United States — 4535.30
India — 2411.73
Russia — 1674.23
Japan — 1061.77
Iran — 690.24
Germany — 636.88
South Korea — 621.47
Saudi Arabia — 588.81
Indonesia — 568.27

Looking at CO2 per capita is better than total emissions. There are 1.4 billion people in China and it's industrialized, of course it's on top in total emissions.

RFClark - 6-18-2023 at 06:44 PM

SF&H,

Total emissions are what heats up the world. China’s are twice ours and that doesn’t include ag burning.

elgatoloco - 6-19-2023 at 05:06 PM

JZ - don't forget your hero and savior............ :lol:

Musk's carbon footprint from his 171 private flights in 2022 was 132 times the size of the average US resident's total annual footprint from all activities, the report found. His private plane burned about 221,358 gallons of jet fuel and emitted about 2,112 metric tons of carbon emissions last year, the report found.
-Business Insider May 2, 2023

mtgoat666 - 6-19-2023 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elgatoloco

JZ - don't forget your hero and savior............ :lol:

Half pint focuses on a few people flying private jets - he can’t see the forest for the trees.

People in Texas get it. Not everyone is brainwashed idiot…

Even in Texas, You Can’t Stop the Green Revolution
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/14/opinion/texas-green-revol...
Texans are catching the green new wave

RFClark - 6-19-2023 at 08:33 PM

JZ,

Musk unlike “Swift Boat” actually does something useful in his travels.

I’d trade “Swift Boat and Hanoi Jane” for another Musk any day.

surabi - 6-19-2023 at 09:28 PM

JZ,

Musk unlike “Swift Boat” actually does something useful in his travels.

Impregnate women, cozy up to Robert Murdoch and lay off long time employees? Oh, and design self-driving cars with the worst accident record of them all?

RFClark - 6-20-2023 at 06:31 AM

S,

A thought for you. Have a nice day under your rock.

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-get-in-angry-m...

JZ - 6-21-2023 at 10:21 AM

How is everyone doing?

Cliffy - 6-21-2023 at 10:35 AM

Then I guess I'm in heaven right now!

stillnbaja - 6-21-2023 at 11:36 AM

and a happy summer solstice to all of you! :coolup:

surabi - 6-21-2023 at 12:56 PM

How is everyone doing?

Too bad you're so simple-minded that you think that means that all of humanity would be wiped out 5 years from 2018, when what it actually means that if we don't change our ways in 5 years, the effects will be irreversible to the point that eventually human life will not be able to exist on this planet.

Your "gotcha" moment is based on non-understanding and baseless denial.

[Edited on 6-21-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 6-21-2023 at 02:12 PM

S,

Too bad you are so simple minded that you think that what has been proposed to date will effect the problem, if 5 years is really the deadline. The Chinese are the world’s leading emitter of pollutants. China emits as much pollution as the next 6 countries on the list including the US. China isn’t even a part of the discussion.

You need to focus on the real problem. Btw do you cook with propane?

JZ - 6-21-2023 at 02:16 PM

Why did she delete the Tweet then? How dare her!! :lol:

surabi - 6-21-2023 at 02:17 PM

A very simple new chart system to clearly show warming trends across the planet over the past 100 years, developed by Ed Hawkins, Professor of Climate Science, University of Reading.

https://showyourstripes.info

surabi - 6-21-2023 at 02:22 PM

Why did she delete the Tweet then?

I suspect because the simple-minded interpreted it to mean exactly what you did.

RFClark - 6-21-2023 at 02:31 PM

S,

Time to go back under your rock!

Cliffy - 6-21-2023 at 03:42 PM

A very simple new chart system to clearly show warming trends across the planet over the past 100 years, developed by Ed Hawkins, Professor of Climate Science, University of Reading.

https://showyourstripes.info

So what?
The world has been warmer long before man was here and the world is still here.

!2,000 years ago there were glaciers in Chicago
What happened to them? Man burning wood for heat?
The world's climate has always changed and yet the world survives.

How much will the atmosphere change if Europe and the USA go all EV?
How much of a change will it be if the rest of the world increases its use of dino juice while we fiddle as the the economy burns.

Give me a valid number
All anyone has is a guess with no hard numbers nor will anyone testify before Congress and give a valid number when asked like they did a few weeks ago.
If you can't answer the question then you have no valid argument.

If the GOAL is to reduce CO2 in the worldwide atmosphere then there should be a valid percentage of gain on the goal with what is proposed.
ANything less is just a guess

[Edited on 6-21-2023 by Cliffy]

[Edited on 6-21-2023 by Cliffy]

surabi - 6-21-2023 at 03:53 PM

You might as well just copy and pasting your replies, Cliffy, as you just keep repeating the exact same irrelevancy. "So what" is that we aren't talking about the planet still spinning in space, or what happened "long before there was man"- the issue, which seemingly doesn't penetrate your calcified brain, is a planet that can continue to support human, animal and plant life.

Perhaps you should volunteer to be dropped off on the moon and send us messages about how wonderful it is to hang out in a barren landscape with no oxygen.

surabi - 6-21-2023 at 03:57 PM

S,

Time to go back under your rock!

Spoken like a typical white male Republican when a woman has something to say that they don't agree with.

RFClark - 6-21-2023 at 04:19 PM

S,

You're the one with the insults who won’t answer direct questions!

So either under a bridge or rock!

Cliffy - 6-21-2023 at 04:30 PM

S- JUST ANSWER MY QUESTIONS if you can!

I keep asking the same questions because you refuse to answer them just like all those before Congress refused to answer the same kinds of questions.

[Edited on 6-21-2023 by Cliffy]

JZ - 6-21-2023 at 05:22 PM

Why don't elite Liberals lead by example. Instead of having the carbon footprint of a thousand.

RFClark - 6-21-2023 at 06:27 PM

SF&H,

I have no idea how old you are but, I’m old enough to have lived through and listened to “my betters” tell me that Communism was the “inevitable future” and the rest of us were just saving their parking place. However did that turn out?

I was also raised on the idea that if the US didn't allow the Russians and Chinese to have their way we’d all die in an awful nuclear war. Ever read a chit book called “On The Beach” I think it was also a chit movie. Both based on junk Science. The LA Times, a junk “news outlet” serialized “On The Beach” to scare the chit out of everyone back when it was written in the ‘50s.

Then there were the “Drop Drills” and air raid siren tests at 10:00AM on the 3rd or last Friday of the month. Guess when the bad guys would have attacked?

There were at 3-4 news flashes over the years that we had found all the oil in the world and that “the end was neigh” because there was no more oil.

Some of these “learned pronouncements” were from the same bunch who clung to the notion that continents couldn’t possibly move as they were way too big.

However did all of that and more turn out?

I could go on for hours in the same vain but you get the idea.

75+ years of that tends to bring out the skeptic in a person. It also makes you hold on to your wallet when yet another “the end of the world is coming because —————-. (Insert reason here)!

willardguy - 6-21-2023 at 07:08 PM

:lol:

all you can do is shake your head and laugh at these jackazzes, prove me wrong :coolup:

[Edited on 6-22-2023 by willardguy]

chippy - 6-21-2023 at 07:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

all you can do is shake your head and laugh at these jackazzes, prove me wrong :coolup:

[Edited on 6-22-2023 by willardguy]

really. what a chit show this site has become. wankers the lot.

Lee - 6-21-2023 at 08:04 PM