BajaNomad

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

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DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I am sure


Actually, Janene, you're not. Very little is known at this point, and may never be known.
Why speculate? It serves no real purpose but to satisfy one's need for intrigue.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 01:23 PM

I am brainstorming. Anything wrong with that Dennis? I think we came to a good point today in that we have gotten some volunteers to check out the convenience stores' security cameras and possibly get some new leads. Your I am sure quote of mine is taken out of context. Everyone that has met Gary has said he was a talker and was very friendly, and that is what I meant, not I am sure that this scenario happened.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I am brainstorming. Anything wrong with that Dennis? I think we came to a good point today in that we have gotten some volunteers to check out the convenience stores' security cameras and possibly get some new leads. You're I am sure quote is taken out of context. Everyone that has met Gary has said he was a talker and was very friendly.

[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]


It's Baja....the wilderness.......not New York. People here are demanding CSI results and there's no one here to do that.

Hook - 4-8-2014 at 01:53 PM

Amazing the "sure" and "certain" conclusions the good doctor has come with up out of thin air within the last couple days.

I sure hope she isn't so "sure" about diagnoses on patients with so little to go on.

It's like target shooting with a 12 gauge from 20 feet; all the peppering makes it hard to see how accurate the shot was and obliterates any previous shots.

It's getting really confusing in here.................

Ateo - 4-8-2014 at 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
from 6 months ago? maybe..... we usually stop at the Pinos in south SQ as ER is always so busy.....


Since the car was found March 4 go back from there for as long as he has recorded. I don't know how long he keeps the video. I'll ask.


I asked three customers today (gas station owners in California) how long they keep video footage and got three different answers: 3 weeks, 1 month and 2 months.

Just FYI.

mtgoat666 - 4-8-2014 at 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Amazing the "sure" and "certain" conclusions the good doctor has come with up out of thin air within the last couple days.

I sure hope she isn't so "sure" about diagnoses on patients with so little to go on.

It's like target shooting with a 12 gauge from 20 feet; all the peppering makes it hard to see how accurate the shot was and obliterates any previous shots.

It's getting really confusing in here.................


it's cyber mystery dinner theatre (BYOB and food)

monoloco - 4-8-2014 at 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What do you call someone who assaults a driver and robs him?Ambush can also mean a surprise attack. I am sure Gary presented himself as a friendly guy trying to help someone out and got more than he bargained for. The robber knew that the car was hot and dumped it. Makes more sense than him pulling in miles off the main road only after 2 hours into his trip and no one seeing him.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How about the ambusher taking a joy ride including getting rid of evidence and figuring out where to dump the car


How about prescribing yourself some meds to rein in your bizarre imagination?
"Ambush??" That's right out of "Platoon."
It's highly unlikely that there would be anything of value left in the vehicle if he was a victim of foul play. I predict he will be found within a 10 mile radius of where his car was found.

absinvestor - 4-8-2014 at 03:03 PM

Monoloco- I had the same opinion up until a few days ago. I think the lack of driven miles indicates that the car had to be parked somewhere else for some time. (Virtually all miles on the car have been accounted for.) He could have been heading to the beach (or returning from the beach) when he got stuck but the rancher knows that area and is sure that Gary's car was not there 3 months ago.) (The rancher didn't say he was pretty sure- he said he was sure. Gary had planned to return to Jardines in 3 days. I also don't understand why Gary would have chosen that secluded area to camp-I have read other comments as to why someone might camp there but Gary is not a "loner." All indications are that he is a talker and loves to visit- why not camp at the beach where there would possibly be other people? My gut feeling is somebody was trying to hide the car or maybe tried to move it to a better location and got stuck. I have too much confidence in the rancher's comments and the overall condition of the car, to believe that the car has been in the found location for almost 6 months. That area has to be searched but I'm doubtful that a body will be found.

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 03:08 PM

Well...if his tent etc. are not in the car, that would probably mean he has a camp spot somewhere and was possibly going out for the provisions someone mentioned.
But....who knows?

Was it mentioned that his camping gear was in the car? I don't want to reread. I'm too old.

BajaNomad - 4-8-2014 at 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

Was it mentioned that his camping gear was in the car?


That is not confirmed yet one way or the other. It was mentioned that there was a bag of clothes in the car, the cooler, canned food, surfboard, coins, cameras, and keys to the vehicle.

durrelllrobert - 4-8-2014 at 03:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I predict he will be found within a 10 mile radius of where his car was found.


EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 03:19 PM

He left San Quintin early morning and less than 2 hours later he decides in mid morning to camp on a desolate route that has no clear cut destination? Makes no sense. I do not know where Gary is or what happened to him. I am speculating and this has nothing to do with my methods of diagnosing a patient. I don't think I am in New York and I resent wise guy comments. You both are taking my comments completely out of context. I said I was certain that Gary would befriend anyone that would talk to him, from the feedback I am getting from people that knew him. It's unfortunate he is such a trusting soul. But in no way, shape or form do I know with certainty what led to the car at the ranch.

tripledigitken - 4-8-2014 at 03:20 PM

Bob,

That isn't Mono, could it be the Dr.?

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 03:22 PM

.Hopefully Ateo, the questioning of these tienditas might yield some additional information or jog someone's memory. Someone out there knows what happened to Gary. A reward might sweeten the deal to get info at this point.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
Quote:
Originally posted by TW
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
from 6 months ago? maybe..... we usually stop at the Pinos in south SQ as ER is always so busy.....


Since the car was found March 4 go back from there for as long as he has recorded. I don't know how long he keeps the video. I'll ask.


I asked three customers today (gas station owners in California) how long they keep video footage and got three different answers: 3 weeks, 1 month and 2 months.

Just FYI.

tripledigitken - 4-8-2014 at 03:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
He left San Quintin early morning and less than 2 hours later he decides in mid morning to camp on a desolate route that has no clear cut destination? Makes no sense. I do not know where Gary is or what happened to him. I am speculating and this has nothing to do with my methods of diagnosing a patient. I don't think I am in New York and I resent wise guy comments. You both are taking my comments completely out of context. I said I was certain that Gary would befriend anyone that would talk to him, from the feedback I am getting from people that knew him. It's unfortunate he is such a trusting soul. But in no way, shape or form do I know with certainty what led to the car at the ranch.


Nothing points to the theory that he left SQ and 2 hrs later he was stuck where the toy was found in March.

BornFisher - 4-8-2014 at 03:28 PM

If someone was going to hide a vehicle after murdering the owner, wouldn`t they remove the plates? Or try to disguise the vehicle some how? Or burn the vehicle to hide evidence? Or keep the cameras?

David K - 4-8-2014 at 03:36 PM

He may have been along the Seven Sisters for a while and was coming out to Cataviña for supplies or just to head home?

I think showing the poster to every rancher and fisherman from Santa Catarina Landing to Punta Blanca or maybe Santa Rosalillita is the only way to find out if he was ever on the coast (if it matters).

The truck was found, and the contents were not removed, other than some things Gary may have carried... nor was the truck stripped (from what Lizard Lips has posted).

Gary may have gotten overheated trying to get unstuck, off any meds, or something that caused him to leave his truck. If he was coming out from the coast, and he knew where the people were, he may have walked that way. If he came off Hwy. 1, and though he was closer to it, he could have walked that way.

What is odd is that he didn't stay on the dirt road (or else he would have been found), and instead went cross country (perhaps)???

absinvestor - 4-8-2014 at 03:49 PM

BornFisher-good points but I just can't understand how the car could have been at that same location for 6 months and not been found. If someone was driving a stolen vehicle and found himself stuck in the sand he could easily panic and only think of getting away from that vehicle leaving everything including cameras, shovels, rakes, coins etc behind. Does the family have any recollection of Gary carrying a shovel and or rake?

monoloco - 4-8-2014 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by absinvestor
Monoloco- I had the same opinion up until a few days ago. I think the lack of driven miles indicates that the car had to be parked somewhere else for some time. (Virtually all miles on the car have been accounted for.) He could have been heading to the beach (or returning from the beach) when he got stuck but the rancher knows that area and is sure that Gary's car was not there 3 months ago.) (The rancher didn't say he was pretty sure- he said he was sure. Gary had planned to return to Jardines in 3 days. I also don't understand why Gary would have chosen that secluded area to camp-I have read other comments as to why someone might camp there but Gary is not a "loner." All indications are that he is a talker and loves to visit- why not camp at the beach where there would possibly be other people? My gut feeling is somebody was trying to hide the car or maybe tried to move it to a better location and got stuck. I have too much confidence in the rancher's comments and the overall condition of the car, to believe that the car has been in the found location for almost 6 months. That area has to be searched but I'm doubtful that a body will be found.
If he was a victim of foul play, the most likely motive would have been theft, so it is unlikely that a valuable camera would have been left in the vehicle. Most probably, the rancher was mistaken or has a faulty memory of exactly when the last time he was on that road. It's all idle speculation at this point, but from a standpoint of most likely to least likely scenarios, the most likely is that Gary drove the vehicle to that spot sometime close to the last time he was seen in San Quintin, and met his demise somewhere in the desert near to where the car was found. Until that area is thoroughly combed, and the photo and other evidence is examined, this is nothing but an exercise in mental masturbation because there are unlimited theories that one could conjure to explain his disappearance. The most logical approach is to try and eliminate the most likely scenarios first.

monoloco - 4-8-2014 at 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by absinvestor
BornFisher-good points but I just can't understand how the car could have been at that same location for 6 months and not been found. If someone was driving a stolen vehicle and found himself stuck in the sand he could easily panic and only think of getting away from that vehicle leaving everything including cameras, shovels, rakes, coins etc behind. Does the family have any recollection of Gary carrying a shovel and or rake?
The fact that there were valuables still inside, and the vehicle was intact is testament to the remoteness and lack of traffic in the area. In most parts of the peninsula, a car could not be left for a night without being stripped, let alone months.

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BornFisher
If someone was going to hide a vehicle after murdering the owner, wouldn`t they remove the plates? Or try to disguise the vehicle some how? Or burn the vehicle to hide evidence? Or keep the cameras?


Or, park it in town with the keys in the ignition. Instant POOF. It's gone. :lol:

chavycha - 4-8-2014 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
The fact that there were valuables still inside, and the vehicle was intact is testament to the remoteness and lack of traffic in the area. In most parts of the peninsula, a car could not be left for a night without being stripped, let alone months.


Exactly. The idea that someone would go to the length of hiding a car down 40 miles of dirt road is preposterous, at best. It wouldn't take more than a few hours for it to 'disappear' in one of the yonkes.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 05:06 PM

unless the person saw the flyers and knew that the police were hot on the trail, and didn't want to take a chance.

24baja - 4-8-2014 at 05:10 PM

Speculation and rehashing gets you no where and makes me and i would think other nomads stop reading and that is a bad thing because we need good fresh intel, eyes and ears on the ground and resolution not speculation and what ifs that mire the important and pertinant information.:fire:

monoloco - 4-8-2014 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
unless the person saw the flyers and knew that the police were hot on the trail, and didn't want to take a chance.
Maybe Chapo Guzman forced Gary to give him a ride to that remote location after holding him hostage for 3 months, then loaded him in his helicopter and dropped him in the ocean so there was no witnesses. Can you see how pointless this is?

chuckie - 4-8-2014 at 05:16 PM

Iagree, stop all the negative speculation, ban Edoc from this post...He may (hopefully) have met a lovely latina, and is busily frying his brain as we speak....WHY? All the doom and gloom? When LL pulls the plug, thats it....

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 05:58 PM

I love you too Chuckie, when I see you I will give you an abrazo fuerte and un besito amigo!! Muah!!
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
Iagree, stop all the negative speculation, ban Edoc from this post...He may (hopefully) have met a lovely latina, and is busily frying his brain as we speak....WHY? All the doom and gloom? When LL pulls the plug, thats it....

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
Iagree, stop all the negative speculation,


Negative speculation can be helpful, Chuckie, if it makes any sense, but most, to this moment, hasn't made any sense at all.

We can hope for better in the future. :biggrin:

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 06:13 PM

Of course not, if it comes from a woman!! That goes without saying!!
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
Iagree, stop all the negative speculation,


Negative speculation can be helpful, Chuckie, if it makes any sense, but most, to this moment, hasn't made any sense at all.

We can hope for better in the future. :biggrin:

Hook - 4-8-2014 at 06:15 PM

We need to slow down and pace ourselves. We apparently have three weeks of speculation and innuendo to create before the good guys return to the scene. :lol:

Although Janene does seem pretty capable.............:rolleyes:

DENNIS - 4-8-2014 at 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Of course not, if it comes from a woman!! That goes without saying


You, a woman, are in the minority [although not alone] for bloviating BS in this thread.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 06:23 PM

really? I think I had some good ideas...well that's ok I was just trying to help...
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Of course not, if it comes from a woman!! That goes without saying


You, a woman, are in the minority [although not alone] for bloviating BS in this thread.

willardguy - 4-8-2014 at 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Of course not, if it comes from a woman!! That goes without saying


You, a woman, are in the minority [although not alone] for bloviating BS in this thread. [/quote bloviating, word for the day! (yes, I had to look it up).;D

vgabndo - 4-8-2014 at 06:38 PM

Until you played the gender card, I was willing to cut you some slack. Now I'm just going to sit quietly and believe in my heart that you watch WAY too many soap operas on TV and that your opinions reflect that kind of conditioning. That's just speculation on my part. I'm just trying to help.:lol:

vgabndo - 4-8-2014 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Of course not, if it comes from a woman!! That goes without saying


You, a woman, are in the minority [although not alone] for bloviating BS in this thread. [/quote bloviating, word for the day! (yes, I had to look it up).;D


Good for you Willard guy, you just proved you don't watch Bill O'Reilly on Faux! Now back to the regularly scheduled speculation.

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 06:52 PM

Actually I never watch TV. I am taking the day off relaxing and getting away from studying. I hate sitcoms and soap operas. Remember that sometimes life is truer than fiction. I was brought up however, on non-fiction books that my mom used to read and I loved as well: In Cold Blood by Truman Capote, A stranger beside me, about Ted Bundy, and many other true crime mysteries.
Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Until you played the gender card, I was willing to cut you some slack. Now I'm just going to sit quietly and believe in my heart that you watch WAY too many soap operas on TV and that your opinions reflect that kind of conditioning. That's just speculation on my part. I'm just trying to help.:lol:

azucena - 4-8-2014 at 06:59 PM

I have " lurked " on this forum for awhile, as there are often informative and interesting posts, but have never really "logged in " Why? Because with all the good hearts here, people who care, there are those who appear to be at the " upper level" who are very critical and at times, outwardly abusive to posters. i can hear it now, get a thick skin, whatever, for all the good some of you nomads do, lizard lips etal there are some of you who are so full of yourselves and nasty it is staggering. There are people here, myself included that are concerned about what happened to Gary. We are are expressing thoughts, some of them maybe dumb, but often by going over a situation , some little potentially inconsequential grain becomes VERY important. i doubt my feelings will be well received because there are some people here who think they are vastly more intelligent than the rest of us. I have lived in Baja on and off for 30 years and there is always something new to learn. I suspect this will be my last post( raise your glasses in toast) because the attitude is as we say here, es insuportable

BornFisher - 4-8-2014 at 07:09 PM

A little intermission music-------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lals72I5DEY

EnsenadaDr - 4-8-2014 at 08:44 PM

I like your comments. I hope you continue to post. I agree with you 100%.
Quote:
Originally posted by azucena
I have " lurked " on this forum for awhile, as there are often informative and interesting posts, but have never really "logged in " Why? Because with all the good hearts here, people who care, there are those who appear to be at the " upper level" who are very critical and at times, outwardly abusive to posters. i can hear it now, get a thick skin, whatever, for all the good some of you nomads do, lizard lips etal there are some of you who are so full of yourselves and nasty it is staggering. There are people here, myself included that are concerned about what happened to Gary. We are are expressing thoughts, some of them maybe dumb, but often by going over a situation , some little potentially inconsequential grain becomes VERY important. i doubt my feelings will be well received because there are some people here who think they are vastly more intelligent than the rest of us. I have lived in Baja on and off for 30 years and there is always something new to learn. I suspect this will be my last post( raise your glasses in toast) because the attitude is as we say here, es insuportable

Camera Contents

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 09:37 PM

I think this could potentially provide a lot of information and answer many questions.

Some have written that Gary is an avid shooter and probably took snapshots along the entire journey.

My thoughts were that since it's probable that he perished slowly, he likely recorded his condition. Others in his situation either write notes or take images of the situation knowing that they will help people understand. It's therefore possible that the camera may have videos recording Gary's thoughts, fears, and decisions during those last days.

Of course, it's also possible that Gary fully expected to return to his car from the walk for help and the danger took him by surprise. But the first scenario is more probable. So some important information could come out of that camera.

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 09:38 PM

I agree Azucena! Please continue to post your thoughts and ideas no matter what they are. I really don't care what is posted only if it relates to what and where we are going with this thread. All input is more than welcome.

Everyone agrees that my interview with the rancher has opened up a BIG can of worms and if you were to meet this nice man you would agree that what he has told me comes from the heart. He has no agenda and no reason to tell us lies about what his observations were. I have interviewed hundreds of people for many investigations and when I initially meet the person I get a good feeling if they are telling me the truth or are outright lying to me. This guy is the real deal. I wish I had him here in front of me to question him more because I missed a lot especially after you guys have asked so many great questions. There is always time for that later.

I hope you are coming to the search Janene. We really need a doctor with us and I am SERIOUS. You can come with me in my Jeep as long as you keep the conversation to a minimum. (Im joking) but I am serious about coming with us. With as many people as I think will make it a doctor would be a great positive….

willardguy - 4-8-2014 at 09:45 PM

question, does the rancher speak english or was the interview in spanish? absolutely no reason, just curious.:?:

Skipjack Joe - 4-8-2014 at 09:47 PM

Once the exact location is seen it will be clear if the rancher could perhaps not seen the vehicle.

How many times have you camped in an arroyo and were surprised to have a dark cow appear from behind some elephant tree? I've been startled like that many times. Could Gary's vehicle been obscured by vegetation and not easily visible?

N2Baja - 4-8-2014 at 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Once the exact location is seen it will be clear if the rancher could perhaps not seen the vehicle.

How many times have you camped in an arroyo and were surprised to have a dark cow appear from behind some elephant tree? I've been startled like that many times. Could Gary's vehicle been obscured by vegetation and not easily visible?


Considering the color of the 4runner, it does seem possible. If it were red or some other color thats not usually seen in the desert, then it would have stood out more.

lizard lips - 4-8-2014 at 11:10 PM

The interview was conducted in Spanish. He does not speak English.

What the rancher told me exactly was that he had been in that same exact spot where he found the vehicle in December and it was NOT there. He also told me that the reason he towed the vehicle to his ranch was because he felt it was vulnerable in that other ranchers travel that same area by horseback looking for their cattle and he didn't want the 4 Runner disturbed, looted or taken by anyone else. I have no reason to discount his statement. I believe him.

Also what he told me was that you would not be able to see the 4 Runner from the road. I trust his observations and he was very confident about his statement regarding the December trip to this same spot. Did he talk with other ranchers about the sighting? I didn't ask but assumed he would have told me if it was important.

He had no knowledge of Garys disappearance prior to March 04 when he found the vehicle.

Time for bed. It's been a very long day!

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by lizard lips]

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 06:45 AM

I'm with you 100% Lizard. Whatever I can do to help!!

Ateo - 4-9-2014 at 07:29 AM

There were a lot of helicopters in the area where Gary's vehicle was found for the Baja 1000. Wonder if any of those choppers spotted the vehicle from the air? Total long shot.

I know this was miles from the race course, but they don't always fly the exact course and have to refuel at certain locations.

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by Ateo]

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 08:54 AM

People accuse me of a avid imagination and dramatizing this sounds like something out of the Blair Witch Project.. .if Gary was perishing slowly and was using his camera to document, then where is he? The camera was in the car. Would the mileage that was recorded have allowed for him to go to BOLA? Did anyone check to see if he went on a whale watching tour in BOLA in early September?
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I think this could potentially provide a lot of information and answer many questions.

Some have written that Gary is an avid shooter and probably took snapshots along the entire journey.

My thoughts were that since it's probable that he perished slowly, he likely recorded his condition. Others in his situation either write notes or take images of the situation knowing that they will help people understand. It's therefore possible that the camera may have videos recording Gary's thoughts, fears, and decisions during those last days.

Of course, it's also possible that Gary fully expected to return to his car from the walk for help and the danger took him by surprise. But the first scenario is more probable. So some important information could come out of that camera.
:spingrin:

latina - 4-9-2014 at 09:17 AM

Do you think the rancher could have found Gary? LL says he believes everything that he was told...but could he have left out any pertinent information??

I am only putting this out there because if I was out in the desert and saw a relatively clean & tidy LOCKED truck with a shovel and a rake beside it, and no people, I would know that they had gone to get help to get unstuck...Getting stuck is nothing unusual out there. The LAST thing I would do is to try to get inside someone else's locked vehicle. Maybe they were only 5 minutes away...how would the rancher know??? Then, to go back to a vehicle you had only seen the day before and tow it to a different location seems strange to me....When the driver returned, the truck wouldn't be there and he would have to conduct his own search to try and find his stuff....???

Why didn't the rancher leave all of the decisions as to what to do with the truck up to the police instead of taking all of the actions he took?

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 09:20 AM

Shovel and a rake??? Was anything buried in the area?

pappy - 4-9-2014 at 09:22 AM

mexitron- iwas going to post something similar- if canoas was he destination why go miles past trun off to san jose and backtrack?

however- your idea that he went towards/to canoas then headed south on connector road makes more sense.

absinvestor - 4-9-2014 at 09:46 AM

Lencho- my sentiments exactly. Most ranchers have lived in the area for generations. To think that the car was at that location for 6 months without him or other ranchers seeing it doesn't make sense. My experience in interacting with the ranchers, although limited, supports your views. I do find it somewhat unusual that he would have towed the car the next day but I do know that most ranchers will jump at the drop of a hat to help someone in trouble. It appears that he thought that the car could be vandalized by others and he did immediately report his findings to the police. We can only hope that those cameras give us some clues as to where that car might have been from Sept-March.

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 10:02 AM

I don't exactly know what you mean Latina re: your statement of the possibility of the rancher finding Gary. I believe the rancher told me everything that was of value and towed the 4 Runner to his ranch for it to be safe. It was the next day, March 05, that he went to the police and towed the vehicle to his place.

The police did not come out to his ranch until March 09. Four days later. Did the police act in a timely manner. I don't believe they did especially possibly knowing that this could have been Gary's SUV. The Police Chief apparently spends ten days on duty then comes back to his home in Ensenada then goes back for ten days of duty in Catavina. This needs to be addressed when contact is made with him.

As I mentioned Latina the rancher took possession of the vehicle for the reasons I posted.

If I was the rancher I probably would have done the same exact thing.

Was anything buried in the area Doc??????

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 10:29 AM

Sorry but the possibility can't be overlooked with a rake and a shovel. Hopefully not. I know people are thinking he was using it to get out of the mud. The question remains, where is Gary? He is somewhere obviously.

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 10:31 AM

When are they developing the film?

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 10:36 AM

These cameras are digital Doc. No need to have it developed.

The cameras are still with the police and will be returned when the family goes down the first part of May.

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 10:40 AM

I would like to know if the rake and the shovel could be positively identified as Gary's.

latina - 4-9-2014 at 10:43 AM

Hi LL. I just don't get why, upon discovering a LOCKED truck, for the FIRST time, obviously stuck and in good repair, would a person ENTER it and try to start it??? He said he hadn't seen it before, had no knowledge of this truck belonging to a missing person, so how did he know the owner wasn't just a mile away, getting assistance? Then why not wait a few days...are the other local ranchers so untrustworthy that a few days wait to see if the owner returned wasn't a good idea? He told you it couldn't be seen from the road, so who was going to ransack it? If you left your stuck truck and walked out to the highway to get help and then came back to find it gone, what would you do??? I'm sorry, but no matter how nice a guy he is, he spent a lot of time and energy dealing with Gary's truck, especially if he didn't know that Gary would not be returning shortly.....

tripledigitken - 4-9-2014 at 10:47 AM

Lizard Lips,


"The last photo taken by Gary was dated 09/05/2013. This is the day he checked out of Hotel Jardines in San Quintin and was last seen. "

This was news posted by you on 3/20 after the family had visited the Toyota at the yard in Catavina. Is the thought that there are extra memory cards in the vehicle, or?

Did he take a laptop?

Ken



[Edited on 4-9-2014 by tripledigitken]

BornFisher - 4-9-2014 at 11:01 AM

When a truck has sat in one spot for months, it looks a lot different than if had just gotten there. It would have a very healthy layer of dirt on the windshield and every where else. I`m sure the rancher realized the vehicle had been there a long time, and investigated.

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 11:05 AM

I really don't know if there are other memory cards for the cameras or if maybe he only used the other one after the 09/05 photo was taken of that memorial on the side of the highway. The cameras will tell a big story when reviewed. Gary was not computer savvy according to the family and no, no laptop was taken.

As far as I'm concerned Latina the rancher did what he thought was best. His ranch is occupied by one worker when he is gone. It's not a
"Bonanza" type ranch and I believe there are other employees that work for the ranchers and who knows their propensity of breaking into a stranded vehicle? If I was able to get help after leaving my stranded vehicle at a remote location for a few days and then find it gone I would for sure contact the police and employ the help of others to take me to people that live nearby but we have no knowledge that anyone saw him and I'm assuming the police would have released it to him if he came to their station and we would have been informed about that.

It is what it is. The rancher did a great job by not only informing the police but the family as well.He didn't have to do anything and we would be back at square one.

Skipjack Joe - 4-9-2014 at 11:06 AM

About 10 pages or so ago someone had mentioned about the peculiarity of Gary having a rake in his car.

Is it possible that by rake they meant one of those fork like rakes that people use to dig up pismo clams?

If not, then do surf anglers ever use rakes to get sand crabs for bait?

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
About 10 pages or so ago someone had mentioned about the peculiarity of Gary having a rake in his car.

Is it possible that by rake they meant one of those fork like rakes that people use to dig up pismo clams?

If not, then do surf anglers ever use rakes to get sand crabs for bait?


I've used a rake to prep and clean a camp area.
Speaking of which........where is Gary's camping gear?

tripledigitken - 4-9-2014 at 11:16 AM

LL,

Do you know if the family only looked at the images of one camera not both?

Thanks, again, for your involvement in this!

Ken
Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips
I really don't know if there are other memory cards for the cameras or if maybe he only used the other one after the 09/05 photo was taken of that memorial on the side of the highway. The cameras will tell a big story when reviewed. Gary was not computer savvy according to the family and no, no laptop was taken.

Taco de Baja - 4-9-2014 at 11:46 AM

In regards to the rake, I almost always toss in a stiff tined "landscape" rake in the back of the truck for setting up camp. There is nothing unusual about one being there. Yes they can be awkward to pack and fit in, but so are lots of other things we bring. Once you have brought one, you will miss it if you forget it.

They are invaluable for cleaning up things around camp especially smoothing out the areas for tents, cots, sleeping bags on the ground, the location of a shade structure and what-not. They can also help to remove twigs, fallen cholla, gopher mounds, cow and horse droppings in the areas where you don’t want to really step on or around those things.

My guess on why the rancher towed the vehicle is that it was likely very dusty, especially on the windshield. There is a big difference in a vehicle that has been sitting out in the desert for months or just weeks, compared to a vehicle has been there for a few days with someone out on a hike or backpack adventure.

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja

My guess on why the rancher towed the vehicle is that it was likely very dusty, especially on the windshield.


If we have to guess [which we do] why the rancher took the vehicle, we have to consider all angles. He saw an opportunity to pick up a free car and jumped on it.
All of the other altruistic crap makes very little sense, so it's probably a bit premature to be calling him "the guardian angel of Baja."



.



[Edited on 4-9-2014 by DENNIS]

absinvestor - 4-9-2014 at 12:08 PM

Regarding the rake and the shovel- The question should be are they Garys? The family was aware of how he carried the surfboard and some other details- do they have any recollection of whether Gary carried one or both. (I recently returned from spending a couple of months in mainland Mexico. I knew when I left the US that I wanted to take a shovel but due to space restrictions decided to leave it at home. There is no way I would have considered taking a rake which is even harder to pack.) Both the shovel and rake might be Gary's but I don't think we should assume that they are.

willardguy - 4-9-2014 at 12:11 PM

LL, im still perplexed as to how the rancher was able to get into gary's car. do you think possibly he just misspoke and the car was simply closed up and not locked?

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 12:19 PM

Don't know about the camping gear Dennis. Gary did take a tent and a sleeping bag but we won't know for a few weeks about the items in the car. The rancher did not say these items were in the car.(Im sorry-The rancher did not tell me the sleeping bag and tent were in the vehicle. He told me what he remembered was in the car)

I only know about the one image. The camera and the photos, or lack of em, will tell us a lot Ken.

The rancher said the vehicle was locked however he was able to get inside somehow. I didn't ask how he did it.

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by lizard lips]

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by lizard lips]

KurtG - 4-9-2014 at 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja

My guess on why the rancher towed the vehicle is that it was likely very dusty, especially on the windshield.


If we have to guess [which we do] why the rancher took the vehicle, we have to consider all angles. He saw an opportunity to pick up a free car and jumped on it.
All of the other altruistic crap makes very little sense, so it's probably a bit premature to be calling him "the guardian angel of Baja."



.



[Edited on 4-9-2014 by DENNIS]


My experiences with the back country ranchers in Baja Sur is that they are honest, good and hospitable people. I think Lizard Lips is giving an accurate opinion about the rancher's actions and motives.

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips

The rancher said the vehicle was locked however he was able to get inside somehow. I didn't ask how he did it.



I worked with a bunch of teamsters who could make a SlimJim out of a piece of steel crate banding in less than a minute...which was longer than it took them to open a car door. :light:

absinvestor - 4-9-2014 at 12:30 PM

KurtG-agreed

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by absinvestor
Both the shovel and rake might be Gary's but I don't think we should assume that they are.


Just curious, but why would it matter?

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KurtG

My experiences with the back country ranchers in Baja Sur is that they are honest, good and hospitable people. I think Lizard Lips is giving an accurate opinion about the rancher's actions and motives.


I feel that it's an abrupt appraisal...yours and LL's.....after a short conversation.

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 12:37 PM

If someone else had a shovel and rake, instead of Gary, one would assume they were digging and covering over what they were digging.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by absinvestor
Both the shovel and rake might be Gary's but I don't think we should assume that they are.


Just curious, but why would it matter?

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If someone else had a shovel and rake, instead of Gary, one would assume they were digging and covering over what they were digging



Excuse me????? Are you implying that Gary's car may have been his headstone?
Pleeeze....stop it. :lol:

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 12:50 PM

I know exactly what your saying Dennis but when I talk with people regarding an assignment and this person is directly related to the issue I am always reminded of what motive that person would have for telling me what is being said. In the case of the this guy I applaud what he did and I would have done the same thing being in this position.

The rancher owns a business in Maneadero and that is where I met with him. His livelihood is not only from ranching. His father also has owned a ranch right next to his for many years.I don't think his father is still alive though because this guy has to be pushing 80. He has lived just south of Ensenada most of his life. He's a good guy Dennis and his demeanor is calm and cool. The ranchers son and daughter were also there when I met him and they as well were very nice and willing to help in anyway they could and they told me that.

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by lizard lips]

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 12:55 PM

Janene----As I mentioned the shovel and rake were there and it appeared to the rancher that someone was attempting to free the back tires. Your assumptions are getting a little to much to handle right now.

I just emailed the family to see if the shovel and rake were items that he took with him.

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 12:57 PM

Yes he did take a shovel and a rake…...

latina - 4-9-2014 at 12:59 PM

Re the cooler:

In one post it says that the cooler was full of rotten food and in another it says that there were a couple of beer and orange juice. Which was it?

If it was full, he was probably headed to the beach. If it was empty he was probably headed to Catavina...

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 01:01 PM

Two beers and a bottle of orange juice and melted water at the bottom which was not cool to the touch. I remember seeing the rotten food post also but this is actually what was there.

latina - 4-9-2014 at 01:06 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 01:08 PM

I have total confidence in the rancher. I know how Mexicans feel about their ranch and their land, it is sacrosanct. They know every inch, and anything that falls on their property they treat with kid gloves and respect. When he found a car on his property he wanted to treat it with the utmost care and bring it closer to his home to watch over it. I know the mentality of the Mexican landowner. I have no doubts but you would have to live with them to really know them. If you've never experienced it, you can never understand that their land is their honor.

BajaNomad - 4-9-2014 at 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

He saw an opportunity to pick up a free car and jumped on it.


I believe that is inconsistent with the fact he immediately notified the police of his discovery, no?

:?:

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 01:31 PM

I don't think it's a laughing matter and I am sorry that you feel my contributions to this thread are comical. You knew exactly what I was talking about. I will continue to contribute if I feel that maybe I can be of some help. And I urge everyone as Lizard says, to contribute no matter how insignificant things might sound. I have seen some excellent ideas here and I agree keep them coming.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If someone else had a shovel and rake, instead of Gary, one would assume they were digging and covering over what they were digging



Excuse me????? Are you implying that Gary's car may have been his headstone?
Pleeeze....stop it. :lol:

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
If you've never experienced it, you can never understand that their land is their honor.


As is their freedom, as well as their hard earned money. It would be a tough sell trying to convince me that these people didn't consider their risk of becoming involved with the law before they became so outpouring with info.
Understanding their human virtues can only be accomplished after one understands the Mexican's distrust [fear?] of the police. A Mexican will rarely tell an outsider anything, let alone everything. To think otherwise is naïve.

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I don't think it's a laughing matter and I am sorry that you feel my contributions to this thread are comical.


Well...not all of them, but that one got a laugh out of me. :lol:

oooops........there I go again. :lol:

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaNomad
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

He saw an opportunity to pick up a free car and jumped on it.


I believe that is inconsistent with the fact he immediately notified the police of his discovery, no?

:?:


"Immediately?" How long had he known the car was there?
I think it's possible that we're only getting bits and pieces of a chain of events.
I'm not by any means implying the rancher is complicit in Gary's disappearance, but I am implying the rancher is only saying that which is safe to say and attendant inferences only serve to muddle the facts. They answer questions before they're even asked.

JoeJustJoe - 4-9-2014 at 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja

My guess on why the rancher towed the vehicle is that it was likely very dusty, especially on the windshield.


If we have to guess [which we do] why the rancher took the vehicle, we have to consider all angles. He saw an opportunity to pick up a free car and jumped on it.
All of the other altruistic crap makes very little sense, so it's probably a bit premature to be calling him "the guardian angel of Baja."



Yeah, especially when we are dealing with Mexicans. In one of Dennis' other post he talks how the local Mexicans wouldn't likely talk to get involved talking to the police or searching. It's very subtle but there is usually very negative traits or behaviors attributed to Mexicans by Dennis in this thread and others, and of course we still have the Dennis statement saying, the Mexican man was just being Mexican in the Udo thread, and that wasn't subtle at all!

At the very least Dennis comes off as an extreme negative naysayer in the thread and looks for the worse in people.

From what we read about the rancher he seems like a wonderful person, but I guess you could never be too careful or trusting, because as far as we know Gary ran into some type of " Texas Chain Saw Massacre" operation in Baja, and the rancher is in on it!

Speaking out outrageous scenarios there seems to be a lot of these lately, and I know it's lot of fun playing these guessing games, but keep in mind the family is reading this tread too.

[Edited on 4-9-2014 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 4-9-2014 at 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
At the very least Dennis comes off as an extreme negative naysayer in the thread an looks for the worse in people.



Screw you, Joe. I'll just stay away from here and leave it to you and your misinterpretation of Mexican culture, as well as life itself, to show everybody the way. I don't need any of this.

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 02:40 PM

This just in from the family:

- It is common for him to leave windows cracked, even when locking the car. He gets more concerned about too much heat inside than he worries about vandals. And, we showed him before he left how to push the seat forward to lock the board inside the car, so the fact that he did not do that says to me he planned to come back to the car, at some point. OR he was too hot & tired to bother, and was rushed to leave with someone waiting on him.
- His sister gave him a set of maps.
- His camera does not have the GPS feature (nomads can verify that by checking prior posts.
- Baja Bush pilots told us early on they cannot do SAR over land in Baja due to the terrain which has altitude restrictions.
- The matching tire that went flat was in the trunk when our guys saw the car in Catavina; they put the spare on it to tow it presumably from the ranch (rancher stated he was able to tow it from spot, so flat occurred on way to police)

I am trying to get confirmation on a couple more things:
- The direction the car was facing (great question from the nomads)
- The # of coolers (should've been 2)
- The heavy, red metal tool box (I'm hoping our rancher took this, which is fine by me)
- Pillow, blanket, tent in the car? (less important because leaving these says he was clearly not intending to camp (sleep) anywhere outside the vehicle, but could suggest he left with someone who told him they had a ranch); also though he would be limited in carrying a tent etc if intending to walk back to the road, true as well.

In my mind, Gary left with vital things, water, some clothes, fresh food (leaving on heavy cans), perhaps the maps. He still could have a spare key, we're not positive because he usually takes two when he leaves town, but he may also know how to break into his car too.

I'm just praying the El Mexicana Newspaper may flush him out.

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 02:57 PM

Comon Dennis. Don't get bent. If someone that didn't know you saw what you post they may think this guy has no heart and just wants to stir the pot.

I know better and I want your posts. it keeps me on my toes and make me look at things differently. The smiley face was a little unorthodox but then again a lot of this you do are. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Searching for Gary's remains

Skipjack Joe - 4-9-2014 at 03:02 PM

Assuming he met his end in the area where vehicle was located.

The most likely scenario is that he would walk to the 2km to the Canoa road each morning and wait for a vehicle to come by until nightfall. Then he would walk back to his car and rehydrate himself and regain his strength.

If it were me that's what I would do until things got desparate. Since there was still food and water in the vehicle and since this is such a short walk it's unlikely that that's how it ended.

More likely, he did this for several days until his provisions got low. After that the logical thing to do is to hike the 12km to the fork of the Canoa and the San Jose road, a much riskier venture. Here the odds are greater of being picked up. Another 5 miles towards Catavina brings him to the ranch and certain salvation. This assuming that he knew that the ranch was there.

So, in opinion, rather than look for Gary in a wide circle around vehicle it would be best to search these corridors of traffic, perhaps 100 yds to either side. Particularly the Canoa road between the 2km turnoff and the intersection and eastward toward the ranch.

However, if Gary did drive to this spot from Canoa as Mexitron suggests he would probably not know that the San Jose road was 10km away. if he didn't know it then, frankly, I don't know what I would have done.

But the fact that there were provisions still in the car suggests that he was no longer just waiting at the Canoa road but had decided on a riskier search.

My 2 cents.

absinvestor - 4-9-2014 at 03:37 PM

Now that questions regarding the rake and shovel have been cleared up along with all the other facts ie valuable items still in the car, accounted for mileage, last picture the day after leaving Jardines etc it does appear probable that Gary drove the car and got stuck. Knowing how dehydration works it would be logical to believe that something happened to Gary when seeking to find help. The biggest hangup for me is that the car went 6 months without detection. I understand that the car was stuck away from the larger road but I do put a lot of credence in the rancher's belief that the car was not at that location in December. Shouldn't a car stuck in the same place for 6 months look different than one that had been there for a much shorter time? Looks like the next step is for the planned ground search. Just a word of caution- It does start to get really hot in that part of Baja in May so the sooner a well organized ground search can get going the better.

latina - 4-9-2014 at 03:44 PM

I was wondering why he ended up at Punta Canoa which was not one of the destinations mentioned by the family, when Punta Baja was closer and known to him.

In September 2013 fisherman from Punta Baja, Las Canoas, Punta San Carlos, Cachiji and El Rosario were blocking the road to Punta Baja to everyone, including tourists as a protest against the Cooperativa Ensenada. (They also blocked the carretera one day in protest and went to jail for a short time).

So maybe Gary went to Las Canoas and camped there because the access to Punta Baja was closed. The fishermen weren't there...they were protesting, some went to jail for blocking the highway, to be released later. That makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is how the truck suddenly turned up in the location it was found. If Gary had drowned when he was at Las Canoas and someone realized that his truck was abandoned and decided to take it for themselves and hide it where the rancher found it, why didn't they come back for it again when they got stuck? Why not take the surfboard, roof rack, plates, camera and portable items until the car could be stripped and repainted?

mtgoat666 - 4-9-2014 at 03:51 PM

another theory,... a member of the rancher's family found the truck somewhere in the boondocks and brought it home - rancher realized it was being sought via posters looking for lost guy, so he fabricated story that he found it in desert and brought it home to his ranch for safe keeping,...

i have another theory that involves space alien abduction and is a bit less plausible

lizard lips - 4-9-2014 at 04:03 PM

Good one Goat! Anything is possible at this point in time. I only met the rancher for a short period of time and you all know what I think about him but then again it's all possible.

Lets just hope for a good outcome with Gary. It's been a long time and I told the family if and when he shows up I have first crack at him!

I have never posted this many times as I have with this thread. Maybe I'll catch up with David K. (looking at 40,000) or even Dennis. I was the 15th person to join Nomads and never had much to say before. Most of you on this board know Baja way more then me even though I have lived here for 25 years. I have driven the road to the end a few times but these off-road adventures have never been a priority.

latina - 4-9-2014 at 04:32 PM

Why can't the family get an inventory of what is inside the truck from the police? The rancher was obviously inside the truck with no problems, yet the family members could only look inside?

Plus, Gary is a missing person and now his vehicle has been recovered. That changes it from a possible case of someone who just wanted an adventure with no set plans to the more likely case of someone who has been the victim of a crime or a fatal accident. Does the family have any indication what the police are doing to locate their family member? Have they notified the American Consulate of the recent developments?

EnsenadaDr - 4-9-2014 at 04:33 PM

Is there not a coastal route from San Quintin to Punta Canoas and all points south?

mulegejim - 4-9-2014 at 04:51 PM

I have been reading with interest this thread for some time. I haven't gone through all of the posts though so this idea may already been gone over. If Gary was hiking out to get help he may have well been bitten by a rattlesnake at some point.
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