BajaNomad - The palm tree is going two feet under water

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

Records being set.

Never trust CNN. It has become a biased rag, not real news.

It's very sad, because I grew up on CNN and it was my go to news source. They took a wrong turn about 8-10 years ago and now I don't trust them to tell the entire truth on anything.

It was a BBC article.

bajaric - 7-24-2023 at 02:54 PM

Destroying things takes a fraction of the time it takes to build them. The amount of time needed to create something is unrelated to the time it takes to destroy it.

So true. Look at San Francisco --

mtgoat666 - 7-24-2023 at 04:19 PM

mtgoat666 - 7-24-2023 at 04:33 PM

This is what 3°C of global warming looks like

https://www.economist.com/films/2021/10/30/this-is-what-3deg...

https://youtu.be/uynhvHZUOOo

mtgoat666 - 7-25-2023 at 07:57 PM

A crucial system of ocean currents is heading for a collapse that ‘would affect every person on the planet’

A new study published Tuesday in the journal Nature, found that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current – of which the Gulf Stream is a part – could collapse around the middle of the century, or even as early as 2025.

2025! Even you elderly might be around to see this event!

It has happened before. More than 12,000 years ago, rapid glacier melt caused the AMOC to shut down, leading to huge Northern Hemisphere temperature fluctuations of 10 to 15 degrees Celsius (18 to 27 Fahrenheit) within a decade.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/world/gulf-stream-atlantic-cu...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w

[Edited on 7-26-2023 by mtgoat666]

surabi - 7-25-2023 at 08:33 PM

The ocean water temp off the southern tip of Florida is currently over 100F.

lewmt - 7-26-2023 at 04:00 AM

I love all of the new predictions of catastrophe when absolutely -0- prior predictions have come true so far.

Yes nodding bobbleheads

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2023 at 05:39 AM

I love all of the new predictions of catastrophe when absolutely -0- prior predictions have come true so far.

You must be asleep. The climate has already changed and sea level has risen, consistent with predictions. Have you noticed that this year summer heat waves are setting records world-wide?
Wake up!

RFClark - 7-26-2023 at 07:06 AM

Read the article not the headline.

“ The water temperatures recorded Sunday and Monday would challenge the record for hottest sea surface temperature in the world. While official world water temperature records aren't kept, a 99.7 degree temperature recorded in Kuwait Bay is considered the world record at this time. Due to factors like proximity to land and the silty nature of the water, the temperatures recorded off Florida would have to go through an extensive verification process.”

Goat,

You're about 12K years late coming to the party. Sea level has risen about 120 meters since the end of the ice age. It’s going to rise 10-20 M more no mater what.

[Edited on 7-26-2023 by RFClark]

lewmt - 7-26-2023 at 09:18 AM

The glaciers in Glacier Park were supposed to be gone by now...still there. Catastrophic hurricanes like Catrina were supposed to be greater in number & more intense... hasn't happened - there have been hurricanes but no where near the level predicted (as there always has been).

I work on a small atoll with a maximum elevation of 30'. It should be mostly under water based on sea level rise predictions... it's just fine & the only changes there are cycles of erosion & building because the whole complex is dynamic and forever changing. In fact 1 of the highest elevations has occurred in the last 2 years from coral rubble being pushed onto a portion of the atoll.

-0- predictions have come true

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2023 at 10:25 AM

The glaciers in Glacier Park were supposed to be gone by now...still there.

Well, there are a few scraps of glaciers hanging on,…
But mostly gone!

lewmt - 7-26-2023 at 10:51 AM

I climbed up & snowboarded down Jackson Glacier in 2007, 2008, & again just a few days ago. Timing was within 10 days of the same date in each of those years. The best overall coverage was this year.

Blackfoot Glacier was also better this year although I didn't actually climb it but it's entirely visible from Jackson Glacier.
[Edited on 7-26-2023 by lewmt]

[Edited on 7-26-2023 by lewmt]

surabi - 7-26-2023 at 03:19 PM

Sea level has risen about 120 meters since the end of the ice age. It’s going to rise 10-20 M more no mater what.

[Edited on 7-26-2023 by RFClark]

What part of the rate of sea level change and the rate of temperature change being important eludes you? "Since the end of the ice age" is not relevant to the quick and escalating rate of change, due to man-made climate change, except as a comparison.

willardguy - 7-26-2023 at 04:57 PM

The glaciers in Glacier Park were supposed to be gone by now...still there. Catastrophic hurricanes like Catrina were supposed to be greater in number & more intense... hasn't happened - there have been hurricanes but no where near the level predicted (as there always has been).

I work on a small atoll with a maximum elevation of 30'. It should be mostly under water based on sea level rise predictions... it's just fine & the only changes there are cycles of erosion & building because the whole complex is dynamic and forever changing. In fact 1 of the highest elevations has occurred in the last 2 years from coral rubble being pushed onto a portion of the atoll.

-0- predictions have come true

dude when im not on the atoll im skating the glacier bro....

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2023 at 05:35 PM

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2023 at 05:38 PM

These islands are being slowly swallowed by the sea – it’s a warning to the world
Rising sea levels are eroding the Solomon Islands. It serves as a red flag for the global community
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people...

[Edited on 7-27-2023 by mtgoat666]

JZ - 7-26-2023 at 06:43 PM

They predicted the Great Barrier Reef would be dead by now. It recently recorded record coral growth.

The climate cult is actually rooting for this crap. The will never, ever acknowledge that the US government is powerless to change mother nature.

[Edited on 7-27-2023 by JZ]

JZ - 7-26-2023 at 06:46 PM

Post a pic from Mammoth today.

mtgoat666 - 7-26-2023 at 07:11 PM

Post a pic from Mammoth today.

Shorty mcHalfPint:
A pic of mammoth in 2023 would be irrelevant to discussion of long trend of receding glaciers in Glacier Nat Park.

Lobsterman - 7-27-2023 at 04:44 AM

FYI

Every summer, heat waves inevitably hit the United States and other parts of the world, causing climate alarmists and left-leaning media outlets to demand dramatic, disastrous changes to the global energy system. Unfortunately, this summer is no different.

On Tuesday, U.S. media outlets published a wave of stories about supposedly "historic" heat waves in Europe and North America. For example, the Washington Post published an article titled "Heat waves in U.S., Europe ‘virtually impossible’ without climate change, study finds."
Similarly, Axios published a story titled "Historic and enduring U.S. heat wave, by the numbers."

Although certain parts of the United States have undoubtedly experienced strong heat waves this summer, there’s no reason to believe these weather events are evidence that the world is hurtling toward a climate change catastrophe. In fact, the best available evidence suggests that heat waves recorded a century ago were more problematic than anything we’re seeing today.

Government researchers have been tracking heat waves for more than 100 years. According to data from the U.S. Climate Change Science Program, which is made available by the Environmental Protection Agency, the annual heat wave index for the contiguous 48 states was substantially higher in the 1930s than at any point in recent years. In some years in the 1930s, it was four times greater or even more.

Additionally, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has a large database of daily temperatures that goes back to 1948. NOAA used 1,066 weather stations located across the United States to collect this data.

According to NOAA, huge swaths of the United States have experienced a significant decrease in abnormally hot days recorded since 1948, especially in the Midwest and northern and eastern Texas.
Although it’s true that some parts of the United States have seen the number of hotter-than-usual days increase over the past 70 years — including in California and the New York metropolitan area, both of which happen to be areas where a large number of media outlets are located — most weather stations have shown no meaningful changes or even declines.

Meteorologist Anthony Watts, who works with me as a senior fellow at The Heartland Institute, analyzed NOAA’s data in detail and found that 81% of the weather stations used in NOAA’s database reported that since 1948 there has been "either a decrease or no change in the number of unusually hot days."

If the available data so clearly reveal that there is no heat-wave crisis, why are media outlets suggesting the opposite is true? The answer is sloppy, irresponsible media reporting, combined with cherry-picked data.
Anyone who wants to show a long-term warming or cooling trend can do so by selectively choosing starting and ending points in datasets that will provide the answer you’re looking for.

For instance, if you start your examination of historic temperatures with figures collected in the 1970s, when temperatures were unusually low compared to the rest of the century, then current temperatures look abnormally high.

If you start around 2010, then temperatures over the past decade appear to have dipped below "normal" and are only now recovering.
When many media outlets and left-wing politicians talk about climate change data, they almost always selectively choose a range that offers an incomplete picture of the larger available dataset. This makes it appear as though today’s temperatures are "historic" when they are actually well within normal historical ranges.

Another problem is that media outlets have been using temperature forecasts in their news reports as if those figures were actual temperature data. A forecast is, by definition, a guess, and some alarmist analysts have recently made a bad habit of incorrectly predicting insanely high temperatures that never come to fruition.

For example, the Telegraph, one of the largest papers in the United Kingdom, published an article on July 18 in which the author claimed, "The European Space Agency said thermometers could tip 48C in Sardinia and Sicily, while the temperatures in Rome and Madrid could both reach the mid to high-40Cs. In drought-stricken Spain, temperatures were set to reach highs of 44C in Catalonia."

None of these predictions came true. In fact, some of them were off by several degrees or more.

Heat waves happen every year, but this isn’t evidence that Americans are facing a global warming crisis. When heat-wave data are put into their proper historical context, it’s clear that everything humans are experiencing today has been witnessed in the past.

The ugly truth behind climate alarmism is that much of it is driven by a radical ideological agenda that is seeking to transform the global economy and American society, not by science. The best way to fight back against it is to use cold, hard facts. And those facts plainly show that there is no reason to panic about our ever-changing climate.

Ateo - 7-27-2023 at 05:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman

Meteorologist Anthony Watts, who works with me as a senior fellow at The Heartland Institute,

Based on this statement, I assume you didn't write all this, though you present it as if you were the author.

Care to give us the actual source?

Posted on Fox and AR15.com and many other biased unprofessional sites:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/not-climate-change-causing-h...

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2023 at 06:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman

Meteorologist Anthony Watts, who works with me as a senior fellow at The Heartland Institute,

Based on this statement, I assume you didn't write all this, though you present it as if you were the author.

Care to give us the actual source?

Lobsterbutt got it from a right wingnut site devoted to rebutting science that contradicts their politics with obfuscation and nonsense dressed up as science.

SFandH - 7-27-2023 at 07:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Posted on Fox and AR15.com and many other biased unprofessional sites:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/not-climate-change-causing-h...

At least they appropriately put it in the opinion section. Everybody has one.

[Edited on 7-27-2023 by SFandH]

pauldavidmena - 7-27-2023 at 07:36 AM

It isn't just the progressives sounding the alarm over climate change. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, my employer, has been researching the subject for decades, trying to put climate into a historical context while also providing voluminous data regarding what can be observed in real-time.

SFandH - 7-27-2023 at 08:05 AM

It isn't just the progressives sounding the alarm over climate change. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, my employer, has been researching the subject for decades, trying to put climate into a historical context while also providing voluminous data regarding what can be observed in real-time.

Cool place to work. Good for you. I live close to your West Coast counterpart, Scripps.

soulpatch - 7-27-2023 at 08:12 AM

When myopic views such as climate warming is a Democratic ploy are the argument that says much.

This is a global issue that many scientists are alarmed by.

Even my teenagers have noted the radical changes in just the last decade and are able to study meteorological data through historical record keeping with their school projects.

This is not a political ploy, this is a changing world climate issue.

And, yes, the waters off of Florida are shallow and and may be filled with silt which affects temperature readings but that 100F marker should ring some alarm bells.

surabi - 7-27-2023 at 08:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

And, yes, the waters off of Florida are shallow and and may be filled with silt which affects temperature readings but that 100F marker should ring some alarm bells.

Nothing will ring alarm bells with the climate change deniers. These are the same mentality of people as those who were gasping for air, on a ventilator, dying of Covid, who insisted to medical personnel that they must be sick with something else, because Covid was a hoax.

lewmt - 7-27-2023 at 08:36 AM

We have researchers that do research on the atoll I work on from Scripps, UCSB, Woods Hole, Duke, etc. Much of their research is centered on climate change. I read the data, the evidence and the conclusions with particular interest because they are people I get to know and engage with daily during their research visits. Some of these projects have been ongoing since the early 2000's. To date, none of the research is conclusive that we are approaching climate disaster. Most of the research actually concludes that the reef and the surrounding ocean is amazingly resilient. Some of the researchers will admit that the bulk of the research is done chasing research grant dollars - you have to go where the grants are offered. We don't discuss politics there because the community is too close knit for too long of a duration to let those hostilities obscure the work that needs to be done.

I used to be a true believer in the whole global warming concept. In the mid 80's Montana went through an extended drought and hotter than normal period....it seemed to make some sense in that framework. I did ask questions of the premises I was curious about. Often my questions would get blasted with responses like "what you don't believe the science?". This only served my curiosity further and I researched answers to my queries.

Ultimately what I came to conclude is that when the left has no answer they simply force the narrative about believing the "science" without offering constructive answers. I also became disillusioned by the very people screaming the loudest about the catastrophic scope of climate change living their own lives in ways that were antithetical to the lifestyle they hope to force everyone else to live.

Hypocrisy and obfuscation don't impress me much. My doubts have only grown stronger since I began asking those legitimate questions. I've seen no research that offers catastrophe as the scientific conclusion to climate change that is actually validated by scientific results....only conjecture and hyperbole.

Is climate changing? Absolutely. Has it always changed? Absolutely. Have any prior forecasts of doom come true? 0
Is there any reason to accept that government mandated enforced poverty and lifestyle restrictions will benefit the planet? 0

[Edited on 7-27-2023 by lewmt]

JZ - 7-27-2023 at 10:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

And, yes, the waters off of Florida are shallow and and may be filled with silt which affects temperature readings but that 100F marker should ring some alarm bells.

If you stop lying and exaggerating that might be a good start.

Perfect example, ppl know Covid was very dangerous. But also recognize it was only dangerous to some.

All you do is exaggerate. Call everyone who disagrees with you a racist. You have zero nuance. Because you know if you were truthful your arguments would fall flat.

surabi - 7-27-2023 at 10:13 AM

All you do is exaggerate. Call everyone who disagrees with you a racist.

Why can't you come up with an original thought and only repeat what others say?

"All you do is exaggerate" is exactly, almost word for word, what I posted to you a few days ago.

"Call everyone who disagrees with you a racist."

Ridiculous bald-faced lie. The only person I have ever called a racist here is you, when you say racist things.
And climate change has nothing to do with racism.

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2023 at 10:16 AM

Society has always had foolish muddle-headed deniers. Deniers of climate change and covid are same as those who denied auto seat belts save lives, denied that smoking kills, deny that over-abundance of guns is cause of elevated gun death rate, etc.

Tioloco - 7-27-2023 at 11:28 AM

Goathead-
You never stop with the One dimensional mantra.
Believing Covid was handled incorrectly does not mean that one doesnt believe in the safety of seatbelts or the danger of smoking.

Those that you label as a climate change deniers is a false label. I believe the climate is changing and always has changed. However, the contribution of humans to this change is the issue. The study of science isnt a political issue. It is not a Republican or Democrat thing.

Your concept is that taxation of the people will change the earth’s temperature. FALSE.

Sea level change is a natural phenomenon. Example:Flagstaff Arizona was once covered by ocean water. This had NOTHING to do with mankind.

Side note- your correlation to guns and gun violence is a gross over simplification of the real issue at hand. But you being a bleeding heart on the issue of personal accountability for INDIVIDUALS will never allow you to look at any of these issues through a lens of a sober, intelligent person that views personal responsibility as a foundational element of a healthy free society.

pauldavidmena - 7-27-2023 at 12:16 PM

WHOI released this article in today's Oceanus magazine. As a rule, WHOI tends to avoid an alarmist tone in its research papers, although it's quick to point out both the short-term trend and suspected root causes.

Don Pisto - 7-27-2023 at 12:42 PM

WHOI released this article in today's Oceanus magazine. As a rule, WHOI tends to avoid an alarmist tone in its research papers, although it's quick to point out both the short-term trend and suspected root causes.

good read......unfortunately the same half dozen here will simply call it liberal hogwash and tune into Fox.

SFandH - 7-27-2023 at 01:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

good read......unfortunately the same half dozen here will simply call it liberal hogwash and tune into Fox.

Hey, the earth warmed up by itself 7.386 bazillion years ago. Therefore there is no such thing as man-made climate change.

:lol:

Tioloco - 7-27-2023 at 02:03 PM

Meanwhile, the Climate Change heroes continue to buy mansions on the beaches that are supposedly going to be covered in rising sea water. And their foot soldiers are all too eager to go out and push for a bunch of so called solutions that all come back to more handicapping of the American way of life and further push toward socialist agendas.
Would be funny if it wasnt such a threat to society.

But the American apologists will die on their keyboard (virtual sword) trying to right what they perceive as social wrongs. Until their sissy butts have to be saved by the men that they so despise.

Go figure

Don Pisto - 7-27-2023 at 02:03 PM

I climbed up & snowboarded down Jackson Glacier in 2007, 2008, & again just a few days ago. Timing was within 10 days of the same date in each of those years. The best overall coverage was this year.

Blackfoot Glacier was also better this year although I didn't actually climb it but it's entirely visible from Jackson Glacier.
[Edited on 7-26-2023 by lewmt]

[Edited on 7-26-2023 by lewmt]

as always its who you choose to believe.....
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/88190/glacial-chang...

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2023 at 02:26 PM

Meanwhile, the Climate Change heroes continue to buy mansions on the beaches that are supposedly going to be covered in rising sea water. And their foot soldiers are all too eager to go out and push for a bunch of so called solutions that all come back to more handicapping of the American way of life and further push toward socialist agendas.
Would be funny if it wasnt such a threat to society.

But the American apologists will die on their keyboard (virtual sword) trying to right what they perceive as social wrongs. Until their sissy butts have to be saved by the men that they so despise.

Go figure

The only threat to society is fiddling while rome burns!

The only sissies in this story are the climate change deniers that are afraid of the facts and the truth!

[Edited on 7-27-2023 by mtgoat666]

Tioloco - 7-27-2023 at 02:53 PM

Goat, SF&H, etc…

Do any of you question why the leaders of your movement do not live as they expect the peasants to live?

Honest answers only please

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2023 at 04:09 PM

Goat, SF&H, etc…

Do any of you question why the leaders of your movement do not live as they expect the peasants to live?

Honest answers only please

You all focus on a very few people that occasionally fly private. You can’t see the forest for the trees, and you seem to be jealous of the rich, like many other failed poor people.
Seems like you failures would like communism, get you some loot you seem so jealous of.

surabi - 7-27-2023 at 04:40 PM

...solutions that all come back to more handicapping of the American way of life...

I guess you're referring to overconsumption, waste, and self-concern. Gun violence the leading cause of the death of American children. Yep, protect your "right" to the "American way of life" with your last dying breath.

[Edited on 7-28-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 7-27-2023 at 09:58 PM

S,

Which part of “you can’t do anything about it because you can’t get the real polluters onboard” don’t you understand?

The Chinese, Russians and Iranians aren’t coming to your party! They account for a majority of the problem!

Go preach to them!

Exclamation points -3

JZ - 7-27-2023 at 11:26 PM

S,

Which part of “you can’t do anything about it because you can’t get the real polluters onboard” don’t you understand?

The Chinese, Russians and Iranians aren’t coming to your party! They account for a majority of the problem!

Go preach to them!

Exclamation points -3

All the poor countries in Asia, Africa, and South America don't want to remain poor. They want to develop. They need to burn things to cook and stay warm.

Libs aren't going to make these people stop wanting to improve their lives. Nothing the US does will make any impact at all.

US focus should be on 1) great air quality, 2) reducing pollution, and 3) energy independence and security.

[Edited on 7-28-2023 by JZ]

pauldavidmena - 7-28-2023 at 12:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Cool place to work. Good for you. I live close to your West Coast counterpart, Scripps.

I'm on the IT side - one of the token few without a PhD permitted on campus because he knows how to move data around. 99% of what I do is ensuring that data retrieved from instruments at sea or from one of our research vessels gets into our data center and is accessible to the research community. It's all available free of charge, as are the articles in our archives.

SFandH - 7-28-2023 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Cool place to work. Good for you. I live close to your West Coast counterpart, Scripps.

I took a look at your (Woods Hole) website and found this, published on May 8th, this year:

Atmospheric Research Provides Clear Evidence of Human-Caused Climate Change Signal Associated with CO2 Increases

"New research provides clear evidence of a human “fingerprint” on climate change and shows that specific signals from human activities have altered the temperature structure of Earth’s atmosphere."

"it is now virtually impossible for natural causes to explain satellite-measured trends in the thermal structure of the Earth’s atmosphere,”

“The fact that observations show not only a warming troposphere but also a strongly cooling upper stratosphere is unique tell-tale evidence that nails the dominant role of carbon dioxide in climate change and greatly increases confidence.”

https://www.whoi.edu/press-room/news-release/atmospheric-res...

[Edited on 7-28-2023 by SFandH]

mtgoat666 - 7-28-2023 at 05:21 PM

No palm trees were harmed in collecting this data!

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2023/07/how-fast-are-the-...

[Edited on 7-29-2023 by mtgoat666]

[Edited on 7-31-2023 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 8-1-2023 at 01:31 PM

:bounce:

Ban on incandescent light bulbs starts today! :bounce:

SFandH - 8-1-2023 at 03:13 PM

Ban on incandescent light bulbs starts today! :bounce:

I was glad to read this:

“It does not ban the sale or manufacture of ALL incandescent bulbs, just those common household incandescent (and other) bulbs that are not energy-efficient,” the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) says of the new ban. “Many bulbs, including specialty bulbs, three-way bulbs, chandelier bulbs, refrigerator bulbs, plant grow lights and others, are exempt from the law's requirements.”

---------------------------------

I much prefer the quality of incandescent light.

My favorite living room floor lamp takes three-way bulbs. I also like using the little 7-watt bulbs in my hallway fixtures. They're getting really hard to find.

Perhaps chandeliers are in my future.

Do we need to change this emoji? :light:

surabi - 8-1-2023 at 03:21 PM

The "warm" light LED bulbs are okay. The "cool" blue light ones are awful.

stillnbaja - 8-1-2023 at 03:27 PM

didn't california ban em like five years ago??

mtgoat666 - 8-1-2023 at 03:36 PM

I really like LED lighting. Low heat output. Long-lived. Selectable color temp. Low energy use. Smaller.
With LED, we got so many more choices now.

JZ - 8-1-2023 at 03:52 PM

Ireland had one of its wettest July's ever. Saw a huge rainbow coming off the Atlantic this AM. No CC concerns over here.

SFandH - 8-1-2023 at 03:52 PM

Color temperature. My preference is around 1500-2000K. But I read a Kindle or laptop; no need for a reading light.

color temp.jpg - 254kB

[Edited on 8-1-2023 by SFandH]

Tioloco - 8-1-2023 at 10:07 PM

LED lights are nice. But throwing a party because the government is “protecting” us from other types of lightbulbs is ridiculous.
Anyone actually sat down and looked at what the difference is to the environment? Negligible.

But go ahead and enjoy your fiesta. haha

Tioloco - 8-1-2023 at 10:13 PM

Anyone ever measured the environmental impact of a bunch of geezers arguing on forums like Bajanomad?

Imagine the number of ipads, laptops, smartphones plugged into the grid… charging so that the keyboard warriors can duke it out.

Maybe one of the engineers here can quantify how much power is consumed and what the carbon footprint is here.

pauldavidmena - 8-2-2023 at 07:14 AM

Anyone ever measured the environmental impact of a bunch of geezers arguing on forums like Bajanomad?

Imagine the number of ipads, laptops, smartphones plugged into the grid… charging so that the keyboard warriors can duke it out.

Maybe one of the engineers here can quantify how much power is consumed and what the carbon footprint is here.

I'll get the engineers at my workplace right on it! I'm sure the greenhouse gases produced on this forum are contributing to something beyond ones and zeroes.

AKgringo - 8-2-2023 at 07:39 AM

My hot-air output is partially offset by my use of a fan instead of an air conditioning unit!

pacificobob - 8-2-2023 at 09:14 AM

LED lights are nice. But throwing a party because the government is “protecting” us from other types of lightbulbs is ridiculous.
Anyone actually sat down and looked at what the difference is to the environment? Negligible.

But go ahead and enjoy your fiesta. haha

I agree. Im really bummed that finding paint or cosmetic products containing lead is so darn tough! Don't get me started on those fine asbestos products no longer available.Freedumb!

BajaTed - 8-2-2023 at 10:17 AM

Personnel anecdote:

The lifelong beaches I went to in San Clemente have disappeared.

Last night big hunks of Newport Beach were under water from the high tide, never ever seen that too.

lewmt - 8-2-2023 at 10:41 AM

Society has always had foolish muddle-headed deniers. Deniers of climate change and covid are same as those who denied auto seat belts save lives, denied that smoking kills, deny that over-abundance of guns is cause of elevated gun death rate, etc.

"Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true. But many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly—and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence."
Thomas Sowell

JZ - 8-2-2023 at 10:52 AM

No one denied Covid. They denied that kids and healthy ppl under 50 should be compelled to take a vaccine or be locked in their houses.

Covid is a very bad example for you to point to. The government could not have lied more.

surabi - 8-2-2023 at 01:19 PM

No one denied Covid. They denied that kids and healthy ppl under 50 should be compelled to take a vaccine or be locked in their houses.

No one denied Covid? Once again you ignore and deny reality. Right wingers were yelling all over the place that Covid was a hoax. Medical personnel were dealing with patients who were trying to insist that they be treated for something else, even as they were taking their last dying breaths, because they were firmly convinced that Covid was a hoax.

And being the selfish person that you are, you can't acknowledge that vaccines, and masking and lockdowns were designed to stop the spread of a deadly virus for everyone. People who care about others didn't want to be responsible for spreading it to others, regardless of whether they considered themselves to be vulnerable.

And plenty of "healthy people" got Covid and died, and spread it to others who died. Your constant litany of "everyone who wasn't vulnerable should have been free to do as they pleased" flies in the face of infectious disease control and is simply a lame excuse for not caring about anyone other than yourself and your freedumbs.

surabi - 8-2-2023 at 01:33 PM

No one was locked in the basement. That's another lie designed to demean those who give a chit about anyone other than themselves.

surabi - 8-2-2023 at 01:37 PM

Ireland had one of its wettest July's ever. Saw a huge rainbow coming off the Atlantic this AM. No CC concerns over here.

No one in Ireland has concerns about climate change? Yeah, right. What an idiotic tourist comment.

[Edited on 8-2-2023 by surabi]

lewmt - 8-3-2023 at 07:13 AM

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry … There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors."
J Robert Oppenheimer

caj13 - 8-3-2023 at 10:54 AM

Ireland had one of its wettest July's ever. Saw a huge rainbow coming off the Atlantic this AM. No CC concerns over here.

I call Bullsh!t
https://www.epa.ie/environment-and-you/climate-change/what-i...

https://www.gsi.ie/en-ie/geoscience-topics/climate-change/Pa...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58184287

and on and on. Just because you are willfully ignorant on the issue does not make it go away - it makes you - well willfully ignorant!

Education is a powerful tool - facts - well they are facts - and education is based on using facts in critical thinking - you would have learned that in law school - but since you flunked the BAR exam - maybe that's why.

Facts and statistics and math would have helped you in pursuit of a degree in engineering too! - but that math was just too hard - right!

RFClark - 8-4-2023 at 10:05 PM

Guess what’s disturbing the Climate Change folks this week. The climate is changing, but not changing how they want or predict. Their shorts are in a knot again,

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25934500-100-somethin...

“Unexpectedly, the eastern Pacific Ocean is cooling. If this “cold tongue” continues, it could reduce greenhouse gas warming by 30 per cent – but also bring megadrought to the US

FOR years, climate models have predicted that as greenhouse gas emissions rise, ocean waters will warm. For the most part, they have been correct. Yet in a patch of the Pacific Ocean, the opposite is happening. Stretching west from the coast of Ecuador for thousands of kilometres lies a tentacle of water that has been cooling for the past 30 years. Why is this swathe of the eastern Pacific defying our predictions? Welcome to the mystery of the cold tongue.”

Perhaps the problem is that yet another model is wrong in its predictions.

[Edited on 8-5-2023 by RFClark]

RFClark - 8-4-2023 at 10:13 PM

PB,

In other news:

“The president of Stanford University, Marc Tessier-Lavigne, has announced he will resign after concerns about the integrity of his research. Tessier-Lavigne announced his plans to step down on 31 August in a letter to students and staff on Wednesday.Jul 19, 2023”

This is for misdeeds dating back decades that has delayed important research by pointing it in the wrong direction. He was finally brought down by free discussion of his published work on the internet.

Cliffy - 8-5-2023 at 08:41 AM

If we all go back to the beginning and the first survey of temperatures around the world we will remember that even the guy who brought out the first data to support global warming had to retract his research because the data was flawed and false BUT -
NO ONE REMEMBERS THIS LITTLE FACT.

JZ - 8-5-2023 at 08:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

If we all go back to the beginning and the first survey of temperatures around the world we will remember that even the guy who brought out the first data to support global warming had to retract his research because the data was flawed and false BUT -
NO ONE REMEMBERS THIS LITTLE FACT.

Shocker.

Where are the Climate Doomers Today?

RFClark - 8-5-2023 at 11:56 AM

It’s amazing how fast they (the doomers) disappear when the science doesn’t match their narrative. It’s worth noting that a 30% reduction is about what would occur if the US stopped burning hydrocarbons.

IMG_4399.jpeg - 83kB

mtgoat666 - 8-5-2023 at 01:26 PM

It’s amazing how fast they (the doomers) disappear when the science doesn’t match their narrative. It’s worth noting that a 30% reduction is about what would occur if the US stopped burning hydrocarbons.

Cliffy,
Don’t know what your talking about. Science is there, climate is changing, GHG from man is major source of climate change. Focusing on one cold snap to discredit the science just makes you look foolish.

RFClark - 8-5-2023 at 09:02 PM

Goat,

A possible 30% reduction from nature is a big thing. It’s the climate guys who are making big about it, not me.

Now you’re the one denying scientific proof of climate change!

surabi - 8-6-2023 at 01:04 PM

100% coral die-off.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/07/25/florid...

And asserting that climate change activists think the govt. can change mother nature is idiotic. Nor, of course, is the govt. trying to do that.
What those who care are trying to change is the behavior of humans that negatively affect the climate.

Even a 6 year old can understand that.

surabi - 8-6-2023 at 01:39 PM

Too bad your biases prevent you from understanding the difference between lying and changing recommendations based upon further scientific research.

RFClark - 8-6-2023 at 07:14 PM

S,

This is why you always question authority! This guy was brought down by free discussion on the internet. None of which agreed with the established science.

Lack of integrity is a nice way to say “lies”!

“The president of Stanford University, Marc Tessier-Lavigne, has announced he will resign after concerns about the integrity of his research. Tessier-Lavigne announced his plans to step down on 31 August in a letter to students and staff on Wednesday.Jul 19, 2023”

Number of exclamation points - 2

surabi - 8-6-2023 at 07:32 PM

S,

This guy was brought down by free discussion on the internet.

Wrong. You are misrepresenting what actually happened. This is exactly the point.
As I said above, "free discussion" by Joe Blow, armchair expert on everything, exchanging misinformation online with other Joe Blows, is not the same thing as free discission among those who are qualified to speak knowledgeably to whatever the subject may be.

"Questions about Tessier-Lavigne’s scientific work started to emerge on the platform PubPeer, where scientists can discuss and evaluate research online.

There, commenters like scientist Elisabeth Bik raised concerns as far back as 2015 about images in Tessier-Lavigne’s research that appeared to be digitally altered."

Scientists talking to other scientists about scientific work.

Not a bunch of man-made climate change deniers with no education or experience in that branch of science spouting their unscientific opinions on climate change as if they were fact.

RFClark - 8-6-2023 at 08:45 PM

S,

As usual you don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s because pubpeer allows post publication anonymous comments. You have no idea who posts those comments.

“ The site has served as a whistleblowing platform, in that it highlighted shortcomings in several high-profile papers, in some cases leading to retractions and to accusations of scientific fraud,[1][2][3][4] as noted by Retraction Watch.[5] Contrary to most platforms, it allows anonymous post-publication commenting, a controversial feature which is the main factor for its success.[6] Consequently, accusations of libel have been levelled at some of PubPeer's users;[7][8] correspondingly the website now requires commentators to use only facts that can be publicly verified.[9]”

surabi - 8-6-2023 at 11:44 PM

Yet you ignore the last line of what you just posted:
"correspondingly the website now requires commentators to use only facts that can be publicly verified.”

Do you not understand how this is not the same thing as unknowledgable people having "free discussion" full of assertions which can't be verified, are only their opinion, usually based on their pre-conceived biases, but which are presented as if they were facts?

RFClark - 8-7-2023 at 04:07 AM

S,

What you don’t understand is that multiple responsible publications are publishing multiple papers and articles bemoaning the fact that what is forecast by their sea temperature models is not what is actually taking place and it’s necessary to find out why.

Also consider the large 300’ hole discovered recently in the Indian ocean. A hole caused not by man made anything but by natural variations in the earth’s gravity field. This discovery that gravity causes large local changes in sea level and smaller local changes in the very ground we stand on, when measured against an accurate uniform reference is only recently possible. How these changes in elevation grow, shrink and move constantly has only been possible to track since that accurate uniform reference was created.

The changes caused by these gravity induced dimples in the earth’s surface are far greater than the changes caused by other factors as they (the gravity dimples) change the actual volume of the oceans without adding to or subtracting water from them.

Put simply taking into account this discovery makes accurate measurements of millimeter changes in the rate of sea level change caused by other factors a real challenge. It also makes the prior measurements of the rate of change that didn’t take them into account far less accurate.

caj13 - 8-7-2023 at 11:53 AM

S,

What you don’t understand is that multiple responsible publications are publishing multiple papers and articles bemoaning the fact that what is forecast by their sea temperature models is not what is actually taking place and it’s necessary to find out why.

Also consider the large 300’ hole discovered recently in the Indian ocean. A hole caused not by man made anything but by natural variations in the earth’s gravity field. This discovery that gravity causes large local changes in sea level and smaller local changes in the very ground we stand on, when measured against an accurate uniform reference is only recently possible. How these changes in elevation grow, shrink and move constantly has only been possible to track since that accurate uniform reference was created.

The changes caused by these gravity induced dimples in the earth’s surface are far greater than the changes caused by other factors as they (the gravity dimples) change the actual volume of the oceans without adding to or subtracting water from them.

Put simply taking into account this discovery makes accurate measurements of millimeter changes in the rate of sea level change caused by other factors a real challenge. It also makes the prior measurements of the rate of change that didn’t take them into account far less accurate.

Interesting. You got a citation for those facts - research? I am very interested in reading and digesting it!

surabi - 8-7-2023 at 01:09 PM

S,

What you don’t understand is that...

You are extremely condescending and seemingly love to mansplain. What makes you think I don't understand that predictions, based on what is known at the time, are not the same thing as facts, and often turn out to be inaccurate?

Some here seem to believe that predictions about things which don't come to pass, or don't come to pass in the predicted time frame, are the same thing as lies. And that those who pay attention to predictions somehow confuse them with inevitable facts which they blindly believe. Both notions which are, of course, untrue.

RFClark - 8-7-2023 at 06:50 PM

S,

Ignorance is more deadly than lies and equally unforgiven by Murphy. The explication is not for you, it’s for others who might be confused by the climate dogma you post.

surabi - 8-7-2023 at 09:25 PM

The "climate dogma" I post???

Care to give an example?

RFClark - 8-7-2023 at 09:46 PM

S,

Extraordinary predictions require extraordinary proof. Most of the science, if you can call it that, supporting those “end of the world as we know it this keeps up” require “this to keep up”. To date “this” has failed to cooperate.

The latest in a long line of “thises” is the admitted failure of the ocean to warm as predicted. Then there are the change in the rate of sea rise models that ignore gravity in their calculations.

surabi - 8-8-2023 at 09:35 AM

I asked you to give examples of "climate dogma" you accused me of posting. You come back with more of your blah blah blah opinions about "predictions".

You can't find any examples of me posting "climate dogma", because I have only posted facts about what is and has actually happened, not any predictions.

JZ - 8-8-2023 at 12:06 PM

This might be the single most important video you will ever watch regarding the Climate Crisis.

[Edited on 8-8-2023 by JZ]

surabi - 8-8-2023 at 12:57 PM

"Single most important video" according to our climate expert JZ. :lol:

It's just one scientist's opinion, which flies in the face of the other 97% of climate scientists' opinions.

"Favourite Climate Myths by Judith Curry
Below are many of the climate myths used by Judith Curry:

Climate myths by Curry What the Science Says:

"Global warming stopped in 1998, 1995, 2002, 2007, 2010, ????"
Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.*

"Scientists tried to 'hide the decline' in global temperature"
The 'decline' refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.

"IPCC is alarmist"
Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate the climate response.

"There is no consensus"
97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming.

* This article was written before 2023 broke previous records.

[Edited on 8-8-2023 by surabi]

JZ - 8-8-2023 at 01:02 PM

"Single most important video" according to our climate expert JZ. :lol:

It's just one scientist's opinion, which flies in the face of the other 97% of climate scientists' opinions.

"Favourite Climate Myths by Judith Curry
Below are many of the climate myths used by Judith Curry:

Climate myths by Curry What the Science Says:

"Global warming stopped in 1998, 1995, 2002, 2007, 2010, ????"
Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded.

"Scientists tried to 'hide the decline' in global temperature"
The 'decline' refers to a decline in northern tree-rings, not global temperature, and is openly discussed in papers and the IPCC reports.

"IPCC is alarmist"
Numerous papers have documented how IPCC predictions are more likely to underestimate the climate response.

"There is no consensus"
97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming.

Somehow you missed the entire point of the video. It debunks your 97%.

mtgoat666 - 8-8-2023 at 01:20 PM

This might be the single most important video you will ever watch regarding the Climate Crisis.
[Edited on 8-8-2023 by JZ]

John stossel? Same guy who claims that second hand smoke cant kill people. Ya, right. Libertarian wingnut preaching to his fellow wingnuts on the internet :lol:

Jizzy: you seem to study subjects by watching rightwing pundits on youtube, twitter and tiktok. Perhaps your reliance on on social media to learn the law explains your abysmal failure to pass the bar, eh? :light:

caj13 - 8-8-2023 at 01:50 PM

The "climate dogma" I post???

Care to give an example?

He won't even provide a simple link to back up claims he made here, how would you expect him to give an example? Hard to give real life examples when your "facts" are a bunch of unsubstantiated claims made by people with an agenda

caj13 - 8-8-2023 at 01:59 PM

This might be the single most important video you will ever watch regarding the Climate Crisis.

[Edited on 8-8-2023 by JZ]

Curry's position on climate change have described it as "neo-skepticism", in that her current position includes certain features of denialism; on the one hand, she accepts that the planet is warming, that human-generated greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide cause warming, and that the plausible worst-case scenario is potentially catastrophic, but on the other hand she also proposes that the rate of warming is slower than climate models have projected, emphasizes her evaluation of the uncertainty in the climate projection models, and questions whether climate change mitigation is affordable.

so uh judith - hows those claims of overstated issues going now - based on the current data, turns out the models being "wrong" well they have actually understated the effects - not overstated it. judith claims are aging like expired milk on a hot day in the sun!

see JZ - thats the problem - science keeps moving forward - keeps collecting and analyzing data - her claims made 10 years ago - well guess what - all of the new data show she was wrong - see thats the way science works - you make a claim - we will test it - and guess what - your beloved Judiths claims they aint holding up!

JZ - 8-8-2023 at 02:50 PM

As she explains, all these "scientists" have an incentive to exaggerate CC.

And those that don't are cast out. To deny those facts would require a lot of putting your head in the sand. The system is financially biased to only support one outcome.

It takes an open mind to see through all the bs. Have an open mind instead of insulting someone's character.

surabi - 8-8-2023 at 02:58 PM