BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Pages: 1 .. 14 15 16 17 18 .. 24

latina - 4-11-2014 at 05:54 PM

At the beginning of this the family said he didn't take fishing gear.

Skipjack Joe - 4-11-2014 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I'm sorry, but it's highly unlikely anybody could survive very long in those harsh unforgiving conditions in the Baja desert during the last days of summer in September.

Nomads have pointed out that the San Jose road is fairly well traveled. That's 7 miles by road from Gary's vehicle. Therefore, it went from highly unlikely, to unlikely. If he knew which direction to turn to reach that road then it could even go up to likely.

willardguy - 4-11-2014 at 06:12 PM

:lol:

please, somebody find this guy!
The first day seemed like a week and the second day seemed like five days and the third day seemed like a week again and the fourth day seemed like eight days and the fifth day you went to see your mother and that seemed just like a day and then you came back and later on the sixth day, in then evening, when we saw each other, that started seeming like two days, so in the evening it seemed like two days spilling over into the next day and that started seeming like four days, so at the end of the sixth day on into the seventh day, it seemed like a total of five days. And the sixth day seemed like a week and a half.

vgabndo - 4-11-2014 at 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
vgabundo, this isnt occuring in Catavina. It's towards the coast. Catavina apparently has jurisdiction over it but it closer to areas know for smuggling operations.

You have looked at the maps indicating where the car was found, havent you?

I was responding to the incorrect suggestion that the cartels were not operating in the rural areas, but closer to the border. And yes, I've been on one of those roads, and expect to be going back soon for the search. I've flown all over the area on Google to get an idea of the lay of the land. Not that that will be of much use.

BajaNomad - 4-11-2014 at 06:35 PM

The current post #1 of this thread states:

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca

He is not an avid fisherman either... he just loves Baja, the people, the views...

He does not use plastic, he has enough cash to last him awhile.

BajaBlanca - 4-11-2014 at 06:37 PM

The camera and how charged it is, is brilliant.

micah202 - 4-11-2014 at 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
The camera and how charged it is, is brilliant.

...could be helpful,,though I don't suppose I'm the only guy who carries chargers and 120v adapters :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 4-11-2014 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by micah202

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
The camera and how charged it is, is brilliant.

...could be helpful,,though I don't suppose I'm the only guy who carries chargers and 120v adapters :rolleyes:

Or, extra batteries when away from the grid. [in fact, always]

BajaNomad - 4-11-2014 at 09:03 PM

From El Mexicano:

elmexicano.jpg - 49kB

Clothing

Skipjack Joe - 4-11-2014 at 10:59 PM

IMO the best thing to come out of this afternoon's brainstorming had to do with clothing.

When Gary left the States he must have packed clean clothes and underwear. We all do that. There are no exceptions to this. They may have been neatly packed or not but everything should have been clean. If he had met his end within that first week then most of his clothes should still be clean.

Especially the underwear. For a 3 week trip I would assume that he would pack 10 pairs or more. If say 8 are still in perfect condition and 2 are used then he probably didn't last long. If, however, he stayed on the beach for 4 months then I would expect few articles of underwear to still look like they came out of the washer.

So the shape of the clothes they find could provide important clues about time.

That's assuming that nobody in the fish camps will do the laundry for you. I've never met one that does.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 07:10 AM

No offense Skipjack, but if the man remembered to change his underwear on a daily basis over the course of 4 months he should remember to call his family as well. No excuse for not keeping in touch with his family that is worried sick about him if indeed his mental status is intact.

[Edited on 4-12-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Mulegena - 4-12-2014 at 07:13 AM

The Family Search in May:
Divide into Spanish-speaking teams who will act in concert, but separately; communication by long-range 2-way radio.
- In the evening when the fishermen are in-camp visit each camp with a list of pre-determined questions, photos of Gary, etc.
- Same for the ranches.
- Write down findings for each ranch/fish camp on a clipboard.
- Gather together and confer.

chuckie - 4-12-2014 at 07:30 AM

Finally! Some sense of organization is coming into play....Way ta go!

DENNIS - 4-12-2014 at 07:35 AM

GOOOD MORNING BAJA CALIFORNIA
-----------------------------------------------------

Nice to see you folks are still micro-managing an investigation which will only take place in your heads.
Hey.........is anyone going to bring up the use of Cadaver Dogs, or are we still too busy checking skid marks on underwear?

Ateo - 4-12-2014 at 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
GOOOD MORNING BAJA CALIFORNIA
-----------------------------------------------------

Nice to see you folks are still micro-managing an investigation which will only take place in your heads.
Hey.........is anyone going to bring up the use of Cadaver Dogs, or are we still too busy checking skid marks on underwear?

At least they are trying to help.

woody with a view - 4-12-2014 at 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Especially the underwear. For a 3 week trip I would assume that he would pack 10 pairs or more.

except that not everyone wears underwear, especially if they wear surf trunks all day and night! :light:

now, socks are a different story. wear em once then turn them inside out and wear them again. then they are dirty!

DENNIS - 4-12-2014 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

At least they are trying to help.

Of course they are, but this has turned into a "frustrated sleuth" parlor game competition and has long ago left the realm of reality.

What's your take on the skidmarks, Jon? Do you think an intensive lab analysis will give us a trail of eateries to use in establishing his path of travel along with a time frame based on the "specials of the day" evidence , or should we just stick with the "bread crumb" method?
Pardon my insensitivity to all good efforts here, but 76 pages of home CSI bantering drove me to it.

.

[Edited on 4-12-2014 by DENNIS]

wessongroup - 4-12-2014 at 08:04 AM

:lol:

at a boy ... :biggrin:

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 08:09 AM

Dennis you make fun of everything. I think Skipjack had a good idea, just that if Gary's mentation was to the point that he could take care of his personal care, he would have most likely called his family. What is this dividing Spanish speakers going to the fish camps? From the postings here many of the eyewitnesses during that time said there was no way Gary could have passed on those roads being inundated with rain. Besides, Lizard Lips and I are Bilingual, not all Gringos are si or no persons. Even Dennis could drum up a conversation.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 08:11 AM

Dennis you know you could always turn on the old boob tube and watch your daily news instead of following something that to you appears to be nonsense and speculation. You are a free man to pick and choose how you spend your valuable time.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

At least they are trying to help.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 08:19 AM

Dennis got his daily rise out of everyone and is now out attending to his daily chores. Don't take his comments too seriously.

micah202 - 4-12-2014 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
..........just that if Gary's mentation was to the point that he could take care of his personal care, he would have most likely called his family.

....mannnn,,,,gotta agree with Dennis---there's so many times I wonder if I missed the announcement that there's a prize for the right guess!

.....''"frustrated sleuth" parlor game competition'' indeed!

[Edited on 4-12-2014 by micah202]

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 08:39 AM

You can all make fun of the responses here but how many of you spent considerable time on true crime documentaries or books? Over the years I have read hundreds and the answers don't come many times from the experts they are by people or investigators going over and over the same thing for days, and even years until one seemingly insignificant fact stares them in the face and leads them to the answer. I encourage any and all of you to put your two cents in and don't feel you are stupid doing this. I also don't think anyone should make fun of anyone's ideas either.

chuckie - 4-12-2014 at 08:42 AM

Dennis has sunk to the level of his own underwear.....

micah202 - 4-12-2014 at 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
...........I also don't think anyone should make fun of anyone's ideas either.

...maybe if you get beyond asserting your guesses as if they are facts!!

.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 08:45 AM

Sorry if you have misinterpreted my guesses as being facts, the missing person's case would have already been solved.

Quote:

Originally posted by micah202

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
...........I also don't think anyone should make fun of anyone's ideas either.

...maybe if you get beyond asserting your guesses as if they are facts!!

.

micah202 - 4-12-2014 at 08:48 AM

.

..if only someone actually -listened- to you!!!

durrelllrobert - 4-12-2014 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You can all make fun of the responses here but how many of you spent considerable time on true crime documentaries or books? Over the years I have read hundreds and the answers don't come many times from the experts they are by people or investigators going over and over the same thing for days, and even years until one seemingly insignificant fact stares them in the face and leads them to the answer. I encourage any and all of you to put your two cents in and don't feel you are stupid doing this. I also don't think anyone should make fun of anyone's ideas either.

I admit it. I'm sofa-king stew-ped :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 4-12-2014 at 09:00 AM

Say what you will. But the freshness of clothing is a good indicator of how long the journey had been. If you can't get past the underwear thing than move on to other articles of clothing.

micah202 - 4-12-2014 at 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You can all make fun of the responses here but how many of you spent considerable time on true crime documentaries or books? Over the years I have read hundreds and the answers don't come many times from the experts they are by people or investigators going over and over the same thing for days, and even years until one seemingly insignificant fact stares them in the face and leads them to the answer. I encourage any and all of you to put your two cents in and don't feel you are stupid doing this. I also don't think anyone should make fun of anyone's ideas either.

I admit it. I'm sofa-king stew-ped :lol:

...yeh,,I was going t'let that one slide!!

[Edited on 4-12-2014 by micah202]

Hook - 4-12-2014 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

On the bright side, this thread is just about guaranteed to finally displace "Turtle bust" as the most replied to thread ever. It's #3 right now and should overtake Playa Buenaventura by next week as #2. :lol:

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 09:09 AM

Have a great day to all of you. God Bless Gary's family and all of you. Life is short. Enjoy, love, laugh and embrace every last second on this precious Earth.

mtgoat666 - 4-12-2014 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

On the contrary, this online detective work is mental masturbation! Nothing will be solved until someone goes to the site and investigates, talks to to local people, and searches around in the scrub to find the body. much theorizing, but no data collection! For example, someone needs to go inspect his panties and count skid marks, rather than theorizing about number of skid marks when you don't even have the most basic knowledge of whether he wore boxers or tightly whities or went commando!

Lots of retirees here, this seems like a good excuse for them to get out in the desert, drive their atv toys and exercise their gray matter!

lizard lips - 4-12-2014 at 09:31 AM

Its all good Goat. The underwear thing is a stretch but anything is welcome. I just got off the phone with the family and they are now making arrangements to obtain the 4 Runner and conduct a search when they are there. I have to coordinate with the rancher for him to be there at the same time. They read every post and know that the beach has to be covered and more flyers need to be posted in and around and all over Catavina and the beach camps.

As soon as I know exactly when they are going down I will post it.

Skipjack Joe - 4-12-2014 at 09:32 AM

Wow, this is really declining. I'm outta here.

Taco de Baja - 4-12-2014 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Say what you will. But the freshness of clothing is a good indicator of how long the journey had been. If you can't get past the underwear thing than move on to other articles of clothing.

I agree. Not so much on the underwear, as I and most[male] beach campers do, live in our swim trunks sans undies for the entire trip; but on other articles of clothing like t-shirts. I personally change my shirts once a day, and bring enough for the length of the planned trip, plus a couple extras. The clean ones are neatly folded in the suit case the dirty ones shoved into a plastic trash bag for the trip home. This could very well be a way to track the number of days he was actually camping. Of course, he could have washed his clothes in the ocean, but they will have some salt residue on them.

It's not necessary fool proof for tracking days out, as one of the guys I go camping with will often wear the same shirt (even when covered in fish blood, food, and who knows what) for days and days; but that's him.

vgabndo - 4-12-2014 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

This is rich! I'm retired in Mexico so I have free time. Dennis by September 27th. you had already posted 27 times to this thread when you told us that you had promised to not post anymore useless information here. After that you only posted one hundred and twenty-nine more times!

On March 29th. you posted: "Why all the useless speculation?" however, you seem to have answered your own question six days earlier when you said:

"Total nonsense. This board is designed for discussion and nothing that is allowed through the gates is sacrosanct or immune from speculation and comparison.
If low key is what people want,...perhaps there shouldn't be so many objections to others' ideas."

After 156 posts to this thread, it seems to me that the more you talk, the more you contradict yourself. Just speculating.

(I have to say that all the speculation has caused me to re-think the possible subjective dangers of my going into an unknown desert searching for a possible narco body dump.)

Mexitron - 4-12-2014 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

Huddo!

Taco de Baja - 4-12-2014 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Its all good Goat. The underwear thing is a stretch but anything is welcome. I just got off the phone with the family and they are now making arrangements to obtain the 4 Runner and conduct a search when they are there. I have to coordinate with the rancher for him to be there at the same time. They read every post and know that the beach has to be covered and more flyers need to be posted in and around and all over Catavina and the beach camps.

As soon as I know exactly when they are going down I will post it.

Fliers should also be posted at what is known as the "Salón". This is used as a community meeting place for the entire area. If the community meets here on Sundays for church, or even a couple days a month for other reasons, it may be a good way to contact some of the people who rarely go to "town".

DavidK kindly plotted the location for the Salón, it’s not far from the road to Canoas off the Faro San Jose Road, so they are in the general area. They can’t miss it; it’s the only cement block building out there. Don’t pull into the parking area, park on the road and walk; we have gotten flats in the past from all the nails and glass, at least that’s what we blamed the flats on. GPS coordinates for the Salón are: 29.468506, -114.883711

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
GE high to low:

Natalie Ann - 4-12-2014 at 10:26 AM

The man took medication to regulate his blood pressure. When they are able to check the car for personal belongings and if there are any meds left, then likely he died closer to September than March. Family can check medication refill dates and amounts so it can be figured approximately how long before meds ran out.

Nena

latina - 4-12-2014 at 11:01 AM

NOTE TO THE FAMILY: Be prepared to be inconvenienced in the matter of getting possession of the 4runner, regardless of what you are told ahead of time. If you are not familiar with Mexican bureaucracy you need to consider ahead of time what you may be asked to provide. There will be a lot of paperwork and you could conceivably spend a good part of the day just getting the truck.

Even though the truck belongs to Gary and he is a missing person, you still may be asked for the original title and registration for the vehicle. Hopefully they will be in the glove box if you don't have access to them.

Take photocopies of your driver's license if you are the one that will be driving the vehicle. They may not have a photocopier in the police station, but they will undoubtedly want a copy of your license.

Take copies of your passport. 3 copies of everything seems to be the magic number.

If you know spanish or have a spanish speaking friend, consider taking a letter of introduction, stating your relationship to Gary and what you are there to do.

Unfortunately I have had lots of experience inside the vortex of a Mexican police station and even as the innocent victim I was flabbergasted at the mountain of paperwork and time demanded of me...

Hope this helps.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 11:02 AM

Yes I would get the title switched over to the family's name in California if possible before coming down.

DENNIS - 4-12-2014 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

It's meaningless, Igor, if you don't know his hygiene habits. Do you know how often he changed his shorts? Does his family know?

DENNIS - 4-12-2014 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo

This is rich! I'm retired in Mexico so I have free time. Dennis by September 27th. you had already posted 27 times to this thread when you told us that you had promised to not post anymore useless information here. After that you only posted one hundred and twenty-nine more times!

On March 29th. you posted: "Why all the useless speculation?" however, you seem to have answered your own question six days earlier when you said:

"Total nonsense. This board is designed for discussion and nothing that is allowed through the gates is sacrosanct or immune from speculation and comparison.
If low key is what people want,...perhaps there shouldn't be so many objections to others' ideas."

After 156 posts to this thread, it seems to me that the more you talk, the more you contradict yourself. Just speculating.

(I have to say that all the speculation has caused me to re-think the possible subjective dangers of my going into an unknown desert searching for a possible narco body dump.)

Well, Perry...if you spent as much time analyzing the victim's habits as you do mine, this case would surely be solved.

Why would Gary be in a narco body dump? Was he part of a cartel? I must have missed that part.
Like I mentioned a little while ago....this recovery could use the services of a Cadaver Dog.

willyAirstream - 4-12-2014 at 11:58 AM

lizard lips - 4-12-2014 at 12:02 PM

You don't need to change the title. The family has been in touch with the SQ Ministerio and know what to bring down. Your right about all of the copies Latina. If Garys son comes down for the truck, he will need three copies of his birth certificate, and an original, showing that Gary is his father. Also it would be a good idea to also bring down Garys birth certificate, original, the title, original, and three copies of that. It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring down your marriage certificate Kim, original and three copies.

Im sure there is more but they will inform them. It always seems when I deal with the Mexican Authorities for something I need there is something that they didn't tell me after I called to confirm.

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 12:04 PM

That's great guys, keep up the good work. I don't know where you got that photo of me...oh and a quick disclaimer, Nothing I say on this forum can be construed as fact, as I do not know the whereabouts of Gary Patton or what happened during the time he went missing. Love to all and have a wonderful day!!

greengoes - 4-12-2014 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
...oh and a quick disclaimer, Nothing I say on this forum can be construed as fact..........

DUH

Sol gave me heck for posting in this thread. :lol:

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 12:25 PM

God Bless all of you, including Greengoes!! and may Peace be with you in this very short fragile life we have!!

absinvestor - 4-12-2014 at 12:46 PM

Ensenada Dr- this is amazing- you look exactly like my wife!!

EnsenadaDr - 4-12-2014 at 12:49 PM

WEll isn't she a lucky gal???

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
Ensenada Dr- this is amazing- you look exactly like my wife!!

MMc - 4-12-2014 at 08:55 PM

Maybe? She is a X

lizard lips - 4-13-2014 at 12:32 PM

I don't know Garys habits of how often he changes his clothes or certain items of clothes and when the contents of whatever is in the vehicle is found it will be posted. Please don't post anymore re: his underwear. As I mentioned in the past please post what is relevant but what some posted is just not right. I heard from the family and they, as well as me, are disgusted with this nonsense. If you don't have something to post that is your thought about where we are attempting to go with this please hold your disgusting BS posts to yourself. Those were just uncalled for.

Garys 65th birthday is tomorrow so wherever you are raise a glass and say a prayer.

[Edited on 4-13-2014 by lizard lips]

absinvestor - 4-13-2014 at 12:48 PM

LL-Thanks for your direct and accurate post. Please let the family know that we will be tipping the glass and saying a prayer for Gary's 65th!!!

EnsenadaDr - 4-13-2014 at 01:08 PM

Feliz Cumpleanos Gary!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_pLp4Ckbpo

Hook - 4-13-2014 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena
The Family Search in May:
Divide into Spanish-speaking teams who will act in concert, but separately; communication by long-range 2-way radio.
- In the evening when the fishermen are in-camp visit each camp with a list of pre-determined questions, photos of Gary, etc.
- Same for the ranches.
- Write down findings for each ranch/fish camp on a clipboard.
- Gather together and confer.

Is this a recap of something posted earlier by LL or is this a proposal you are putting forward?

IS there a formal plan for a search, involving persons outside the family and law enforcement?

Ateo - 4-13-2014 at 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Is this a recap of something posted earlier by LL or is this a proposal you are putting forward?

I believe this was Mulegena's idea. Sounds good.

lizard lips - 4-13-2014 at 02:40 PM

Not from me. I suggested that we need a pro. that has done a search of this type before but before anything is done we need to see what Garys car contained and where the vehicle was found. I also mentioned that I have NEVER done this before and please, don't think I am in charge of anything.

I also heard from the family that Garys brother is going down with friends and will attempt to locate the search area and conduct a search. I don't know when this will happen and I have never spoken to him before so I'm not aware of his plan. If I find out dates and what he is going to do I will post……I sure hope he knows what he's doing.

[Edited on 4-13-2014 by lizard lips]

Mulegena - 4-13-2014 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Is this a recap of something posted earlier by LL or is this a proposal you are putting forward?

I believe this was Mulegena's idea. Sounds good.

My ideas, yes, but the reference of the family coming down in May was already posted days ago, I believe. Also, based on prior posts it's my belief that the concerned family must be and will be included in the planning of any search and recovery efforts.

lizard lips - 4-13-2014 at 04:24 PM

Good ideas by the way Mulegena!!!!!!! This is exactly what I want as far as responses. I don't know if I mentioned this, and I'm not going back to every post I made, but when I take an assignment from a customer I always ask them to send me a list of questions that they would want to ask and add these to mine prior to an interview. Even thought I have been doing this type of work for more then I can remember two heads are better than one.

If we keep on track with this type of reasoning and ask the right questions then we should leave no stone unturned, so to speak. I hate it once I'm finished with an interview and am driving back and it dawns on me that I didn't ask this or that.

Keep em coming…..

[Edited on 4-13-2014 by lizard lips]

EnsenadaDr - 4-13-2014 at 04:49 PM

Weren't the fish camps searched? I see no reason why the searchers shouldn't go back but considering the weather at that time Gary disappeared and someone mentioning they questioned the fish camps already, what was the consensus in that area?

The Location Facts... as reported

David K - 4-13-2014 at 06:20 PM

I have been informed that there is a dispute about the location the rancher found the 4Runner... Which is fine, because we all want to help. Exchanging ideas in a mystery can only help, but we need to work with facts, if we have them.

Lizard Lips posted the directions he was told.

We know the distance measured is on the Faro San Jose graded road, which leaves Hwy. 1 about 7-8 miles north of Cataviña.

Posted: About 38 kms. down this road take the right fork.

At about 33-35 km. is a road right. The 33 km. right turn road goes 5 km. to a ranch and ends at an airstrip 1 km. past the ranch. Clearly not close to 10 km.

The Canoas Fork is at 40-42 km.

Posted: The next distance we are told is about 10 km. on the right fork to a left turn road.

At 8 km. is a left turn road (and nothing beyond at 10-12 km.)

Posted: The next distance we are told is about 2 km.

There is a small arroyo crossing just under 2 km.

Posted: Then the 4Runner was found 400 meters up this arroyo, to the right.

If we stick to Lizard Lip's posted locations then there is less guessing. Obviously, only the rancher knows where the truck really was... and why he removed it before going to the police in Cataviña.

The only mystery I have to the LL's directions is that I don't see a ranch on Google Earth. But, it may be newer than the date of the image or I just don't see it?

I hope this is taken to HELP the Patton Family find the answers they seek and the good folks searching are looking in the right area.

absinvestor - 4-13-2014 at 11:44 PM

Our clock chimed to let us know it is April 14th. We have never met Gary but feel we know him. Here's our toast-" Happy Birthday, Gary, our thoughts and prayers to you and your family." Ron and Patty

Mexitron - 4-14-2014 at 06:56 AM

Therein lies the rub---if the truck was really found 400 meters (a quarter mile or so) up an arroyo, then Gary or whoever was driving his truck wanted it to be hidden. Just doesn't sound right that Gary would be going off road that far in a 2WD for no reason.
Thanks for the mileage update David.
When you all go to investigate there should still be tracks etched in the mud if this happened during/after a rainstorm, which might hepl with pinpointing the timing.

Hook - 4-14-2014 at 10:50 AM

Why the heck did that rancher decide to move that vehicle on his own? That sounds very unlike something a remote rancher would do. It involves expense and risk to his tow vehicle and the liability of being accused of theft. Unless it was completely blocking a very important road, that seems very unusual.

And this is the same person who says the vehicle had only been there a week? :?:

This might be the most puzzling aspect of the discovery of the vehicle.

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 10:53 AM

Depends of the SUV was on his property or not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Why the heck did that rancher decide to move that vehicle on his own? That sounds very unlike something a remote rancher would do. It involves expense and risk to his tow vehicle and the liability of being accused of theft. Unless it was completely blocking a very important road, that seems very unusual.

And this is the same person who says the vehicle had only been there a week? :?:

This might be the most puzzling aspect of the discovery of the vehicle.

absinvestor - 4-14-2014 at 10:59 AM

I'm with Mexitron. Traveling alone with a two wheel drive- why get on the arroyo?

woody with a view - 4-14-2014 at 11:54 AM

something stinks, still.... like I said, there is no good reason for Gary to be that far off the road.

looks more to me like the vehicle was ditched, by who knows who for who knows the reason? I bet when they figure out the direction the car was traveling and backtrack, that will be where Gary met his demise.

DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Depends of the SUV was on his property or not.

It's Free Range Rural. One would play hell establishing a property line.

.

[Edited on 4-14-2014 by DENNIS]

wessongroup - 4-14-2014 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
something stinks, still.... like I said, there is no good reason for Gary to be that far off the road.

looks more to me like the vehicle was ditched, by who knows who for who knows the reason? I bet when they figure out the direction the car was traveling and backtrack, that will be where Gary met his demise.

Dittos

Mulegena - 4-14-2014 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

In outback Baja to an inexperienced explorer all the dirt tracks may look quite passable... until they're not. I've taken my little 2-wheel drive Toyota pickup down, through or back out of some pretty sketchy places; solid ground can turn into pure sand in an instant out there.

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 12:46 PM

It's gonna be 100 degrees easily in that heat during the day I suggest the search start at sunrise and quit by 11 or at the latest noon or there will be some serious health issues with older people being out there. I think everyone should be based in a hotel with A/C and return there to rest in the afternoon.

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 12:59 PM

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Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Depends of the SUV was on his property or not.

It's Free Range Rural. One would play hell establishing a property line.

[Edited on 4-14-2014 by DENNIS]

Tell that to the Rancher!! :lol:

Mulegena - 4-14-2014 at 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's gonna be 100 degrees easily in that heat during the day I suggest the search start at sunrise and quit by 11 or at the latest noon or there will be some serious health issues with older people being out there. I think everyone should be based in a hotel with A/C and return there to rest in the afternoon.

Good advice for the ground grid-search.

Interviews of ranchers and fishermen might be more effectively attempted in the late afternoon/early evening when they are not off-site and working but retired for the day.

Floatflyer - 4-14-2014 at 01:53 PM

I thought I could restrain myself, but I have lost!

"It's gonna be 100 degrees easily in that heat during the day I suggest the search start at sunrise and quit by 11 or at the latest noon or there will be some serious health issues with older people being out there. I think everyone should be based in a hotel with A/C and return there to rest in the afternoon. "

I would like to add to wear a hat and drink lots of water. If on foot, wear suitable footwear with socks.

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 02:00 PM

Yes definitely there should be several coolers filled with ice and cold water and drinks, if there are some diabetics going out there then we need to have snacks as well and some juices. Wearing a hat is very important. thanks for the contribution. Many older adults have high blood pressure and cardiac problems and this heat can kill so the return to a cool environment in the heat of the day is an absolute must.

motoged - 4-14-2014 at 02:09 PM

The search party volunteers should be able-bodied folks. Good intentions will be won over by poor health in such situations.

The last thing the family needs is another crisis on their minds while looking for Gary....so the older folks with diabetes, heart conditions, no shoes, no hats, no water, and no hotel room reservations might stand back a bit....maybe manage a relief center w/ water and snacks at search trailhead. :light:

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 02:09 PM

Hotel La Mision in Catavina seems like a good choice, has A/C. I would suggest buddying up with friends as the price is not cheap. In any case no one should be camping out and without A/C.

DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Many older adults have high blood pressure and cardiac problems and this heat can kill so the return to a cool environment in the heat of the day is an absolute must.

Yeah...an AC bar and a pitcher of frozen Margaritas will be a life saver.

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 02:46 PM

Don't you know alcohol dehydrates DENNIS? No one should ever be drinking and doing work out in the hot sun. Could cause an emboli to go the heart or the brain and cause a heart attack or a stroke.

Justbozo - 4-14-2014 at 02:49 PM

If we stay with the known facts that Gary stayed at Jardines, have a Nomad that spent time with him the night before he left the hotel and did he not exhibit any appearances of stress (medical or other), left the hotel the following morning indicating he was going south and would return in a few days, not a trace of him or his belongings for months, an elderly rancher turns Gary's virtually undisturbed 4 Runner into the Catavina police.

There is not yet a shred of evidence that he was ever in the vicinity that the rancher claims to have found the vehicle.

I am not insinuating anything by anyone.
Medical, foul play, self exile, etc.
These are all questions as well as where he was and where he is.

I just don't understand the intense interest in a concentrated ground search in an area that has not produced any evidence of Gary other than a rancher claims to have come across his vehicle in an area that he patrols on a regular basis after it had been missing but not in that location for months.
Yes the area must be searched for clues.
Yes many questions need to be asked of people in the area and involved with the vehicle.
I don't believe you are going to come away with anymore facts than what are found with the vehicle and those will be mostly confirmations of the contents and that the trail ends the morning he left the hotel.

DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Don't you know alcohol dehydrates DENNIS? No one should ever be drinking and doing work out in the hot sun. Could cause an emboli to go the heart or the brain and cause a heart attack or a stroke.

You ignore the AC bar reference...just like everyone here is ignoring the mention of using a Cadaver Dog. They do have them down here.
Something else......diabetics, as well as others with debilitating infirmities, should remove themselves from the lineup.

JoeJustJoe - 4-14-2014 at 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justbozo
If we stay with the known facts that Gary stayed at Jardines, have a Nomad that spent time with him the night before he left the hotel and did he not exhibit any appearances of stress (medical or other), left the hotel the following morning indicating he was going south and would return in a few days, not a trace of him or his belongings for months, an elderly rancher turns Gary's virtually undisturbed 4 Runner into the Catavina police.

There is not yet a shred of evidence that he was ever in the vicinity that the rancher claims to have found the vehicle.

I am not insinuating anything by anyone.
Medical, foul play, self exile, etc.
These are all questions as well as where he was and where he is.

I just don't understand the intense interest in a concentrated ground search in an area that has not produced any evidence of Gary other than a rancher claims to have come across his vehicle in an area that he patrols on a regular basis after it had been missing but not in that location for months.
Yes the area must be searched for clues.
Yes many questions need to be asked of people in the area and involved with the vehicle.
I don't believe you are going to come away with anymore facts than what are found with the vehicle and those will be mostly confirmations of the contents and that the trail ends the morning he left the hotel.

Well I would say the evidence is the 4-Runner was found near the ranch, and therefore it would be the most logical place to conduct a search for Gary at the last known area where the SUV was found.

Granted Gary was not spotted in the area, and somebody else may have been behind the wheel and then got stuck in the sand, but if you're going to put out a search party, this is probably logically the best place to start, all around the perimeter of where the truck was found.

Where would you search Justbozo?

BajaGringo - 4-14-2014 at 03:20 PM

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Not sure if it was you or someone else here who posted that they are convinced that Gary never left San Quintin alive - that assertion simply doesn't make any sense at all.

Everybody here in the San Quintin valley knows that there is a military checkpoint south of here before descending into El Rosario. They also know that the alternate routes around that to the east and west are heavily patrolled by the military as well. It makes zero sense that a malandro would attack Gary in San Quintin and risk being caught by the military trying to dump the vehicle three hours south when there are numerous remote areas to dump it in the hills to the east of San Quintin?

And on top of that dump the vehicle leaving everything of value intact? That idea makes absolutely no sense either. Whatever the motive - simple robbery or if he happened onto drug runners they still would never have left the truck behind without taking its contents and battery.

The folks involved in running drugs and gasoline out to the pangas here along the coast are not high level, gold chain wearing cartel members. They are mostly out of work fishermen who struggle to keep food on the table. They would never pass up the opportunity to score a digital camera or battery. Their economic situations simply eliminate that possibility.

Gary will be found, dead or alive, between Cataviña, Punta Canoas and Puerto Catarina. I think some of you guys watch too much television...

Justbozo - 4-14-2014 at 03:44 PM

BajaGringo

I haven't owned a TV in years. I prefer the view of the mountains and bay.

Your speculation is based on no more than mine.

Back away from the "criminal foul play" and expand your thoughts.

As an example, with no insinuation implied, only an example, what if he fell in love that morning and something happened to Gary and out of grief the partner would not allow anything touched, scared, had the vehicle dumped. Mind you this is not necessarily as I see it, only an example!

There is not a shred of evidence yet that Gary ever set foot outside San Quitin!

I say beat the bushes around San Quintin.

DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justbozo

Back away from the "criminal foul play" and expand your thoughts.

He already had his thoughts expanded, as well as many of his body parts in the SQ area. He knows the risks of the area only too well.

Taco de Baja - 4-14-2014 at 03:48 PM

I should not have to say this but with advice like "drink ice-water" floating around, I have to say a few things so no one gets hurt.

No one should be doing any searching if it's over 100 unless they are acclimatized to the heat, this takes days.

No one should be doing any searching unless they are healthy and capable of walking for miles and miles.

Some kind of shade structure needs to be set up. COOL water should be consumed, at least a pint an hour. Ice-cold water is a no-no, as is any drink with caffeine or alcohol.

A 10 minute break should be taken around once an hour in the shade of a bush or the shade structure.

Everyone needs to be familiar with heat stress in themselves and others in the party. Here's a link to OSHA on Heat Stress (Good to follow even if you’re not working in the USA for pay): https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3154.pdf

Everyone should have a least a quart to half gallon of COOL water with them.

Some kind of systematic transect system should be set up walking parallel transects (north-south, or east west, or paralleling a road), fairly easy to do with a GPS unit; this also allows people to always be 30-50 feet away from other in the transect party, no one should be out alone. Also ensures you cover all areas, and don't look at the same area twice

Some kind of radio communication should be set up if there are multiple teams in different areas.

A “check-in” “check-out” protocol needs to be set up in the field. You don’t want to get back to the hotel, or camp, and realize you left someone out there.

There's more, like boots, long pants, hat, sunscreen, but I can't cover everything in a small post like this.

Hook - 4-14-2014 at 04:01 PM

How far is the suspected location where the SUV was found from the ocean?

vgabndo - 4-14-2014 at 04:12 PM

"Gary will be found, dead or alive, between Cataviña, Punta Canoas and Puerto Catarina. I think some of you guys watch too much television..."

A sound assessment, I think. When the evidence from the car and cameras is made public it should be possible to run some likely scenarios. I can't imagine that guys with any level of cartel involvement would want to bring down the heat that would be guaranteed by offing a tourist along their "gasoline" supply route? Though, admittedly, no heat came for 7-8 months if, in fact, foul play was involved.

I'm more inclined to think that some poor desert survival decisions, maybe bad luck, resulted in his not reaching help. In survival school we were always taught to hunker down in the heat of the day and walk at night. How many flashlights will be found in the car? Did he take them all with him? And, what might it mean if he didn't leave with a flashlight?

Justbozo - 4-14-2014 at 04:22 PM

Well, BajaGringo it sounds like DENNIS has nominated you to beat the bushes around San Quintin as being the most knowledgeable.

Let us know what you find from all your contacts!

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 04:44 PM

Bozo I love your ideas. I think it will do a lot of good investigating San Quintin. As far as Ice water, in 100 degree temperature it will turn tepid within hours if not minutes, in fact starting out with a frozen bottle of water it will melt rapidly and get to the cool water you want. I think we need to stop making sarcastic references to body parts, etc. this is not a joke. Bozo the first part of this post is directed to you, not the whole post.

Quote:

Originally posted by Justbozo
Well, BajaGringo it sounds like DENNIS has nominated you to beat the bushes around San Quintin as being the most knowledgeable.

Let us know what you find from all your contacts!

DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think we need to stop making sarcastic references to body parts, etc. this is not a joke.

And, you were appointed director of conversation here by whom?

EnsenadaDr - 4-14-2014 at 04:50 PM

Anyone over 40 in those conditions are targets for a stroke or heart attack, most people by the age of 20 have some hardening of the arteries and even though they don't show symptoms put under sweltering heat conditions can cause catastrophes.

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Originally posted by DENNIS

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DENNIS - 4-14-2014 at 05:00 PM

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No nomination from me. Only a recollection.

I'm sure you know about that which I speak, but if not, here's some bathroom reading for you:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=55094#pid6665...

Mexitron - 4-14-2014 at 06:54 PM

It is good to prepare for heat but I have been in that area in mid-summer and it was cold and cloudy...the ocean influence goes quite a distance inland sometimes so you might just get nice weather. Bring a sweathshirt, just in case. Much different than say, Catavina, which usually bakes.

woody with a view - 4-14-2014 at 07:06 PM

^^^yep!^^^

that's why I doubt Gary succumbed to heat!

Mexitron - 4-14-2014 at 07:42 PM

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Originally posted by woody with a view
^^^yep!^^^

that's why I doubt Gary succumbed to heat!

Was down in the area in 2004 in July...surf was flat and we were freezing our arses off---we decided we'd rather suffer heat prostration then hypothermia so we headed over to Bay of LA!

Justbozo - 4-14-2014 at 08:38 PM

JoeJustJoe

I agree with a search in the area of the 4 Runner but the conversation has been such that it was almost a forgone conclusion that he had to be there because the 4 Runner was. It seems the anticipation level is running far too high.

It is all good that the area be well combed. You never know what people may know but not divulge without them being asked.

Ateo - 4-14-2014 at 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
It is good to prepare for heat but I have been in that area in mid-summer and it was cold and cloudy...the ocean influence goes quite a distance inland sometimes so you might just get nice weather. Bring a sweathshirt, just in case. Much different than say, Catavina, which usually bakes.

Correcto Mexitron. We are talking 10 miles or less from the coast. Big difference from Catavina.

Hook - 4-14-2014 at 10:02 PM

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That's EXACTLY why I was asking about the distance from the coast. That area is not hot.

Another assumption by the good doc that is FALSE. Several of them in this thread already.

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