BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

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Barry A. - 5-7-2014 at 02:38 PM

Also depends on the age of the vehicle. Newer vehicles draw current all the time to keep the various electric components purring, but the battery-charge in a good battery should last at least 4 weeks, and maybe 6. My 2007 X-terra with a very good battery goes dead in about a month if not recharged, or run (lots of elec.components).

My 1994 Ford pickup lasts about 6 months without recharging or running the engine, but I still put it on the charger about every month, and run the engine about every 2 months min. for a few mins. to keep it lubricated.

Barry

Justbozo - 5-7-2014 at 02:48 PM

lizard lips

These are quotes from your interview report posted on posted on 4-5-2014 at 02:29 PM Page 50

"The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead."

"On March 05 the rancher reported that he drove his tractor to the vehicle and towed it to his ranch where it would be safe."

Now the daughter states he started it.

"Since the rancher said to me that he was certain the vehicle was not there in early December and that other ranchers would definitely traverse this area on a regular basis looking for their cattle leads me to believe that the rancher may be correct however the issue with the battery being dead for also has me confused."

"This is where the interview became interesting…. The rancher said in the beginning of December 2013 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and was at this exact spot where he found the SUV on March 4 and it definitely was not there. He also mentioned that other ranchers patrol this area weekly and no one reported the abandoned vehicle. The rancher said he thinks the vehicle was only there, at the most, for one week."

Time and location just don't add up to put Gary at the scene of the vehicle.

Hoping for the best and good luck.

weebray - 5-7-2014 at 02:53 PM

A general rule of thumb is that a wet cell automotive battery (any brand) looses about 1% a day. Any battery left for over about 60 days should be incapable of the amps required to turn a starter.

lizard lips - 5-7-2014 at 04:07 PM

Justbozo-I saw what I had posted just a minute ago. I really can't remember what the rancher actually said when I interviewed him looking back on it now. This information came from the daughter this morning so I am assuming either I missed something or assumed. My mistake.

Skipjack Joe - 5-7-2014 at 05:45 PM

Don't understand. If they started the truck up why was it towed to the ranch?

Am I missing something?

Rumrunner - 5-7-2014 at 06:32 PM

I have started my boat after 8 months of sitting in Baja. (Chevy 350) However it has 2 batts,and a disconnect switch.

EnsenadaDr - 5-7-2014 at 07:48 PM

maybe the same reason as to why Gary couldn't drive it out of the arroyo The question I have however, is why he didn't call the police and let them handle it first, unless the police told them to tow it to the ranch first.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Don't understand. If they started the truck up why was it towed to the ranch?

Am I missing something?

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

ligui - 5-8-2014 at 05:45 AM

Doc you would be great at guessing games .......:bounce

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 07:12 AM

I'm wondering..........is that wornout wreck of a car worth all this?

chuckie - 5-8-2014 at 07:55 AM

Well, we ARE learning a lot about batteries.....

CortezBlue - 5-8-2014 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Floatflyer
I had a post evaporate, too! Guess somebody is reluctant to hear differing opinions.

Yep
There are several folks that you can't mention in any kind of negative light without being censored.

In fact, even without using their name, but have an accurate enough description will get you bumped as well.

And if you have a copy of the post and try to post it as an image, that will be bumped as well.

Bottom line, this web site is not a democracy, and this post will probably be censored for stating so!

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 08:33 AM

No one else here has any concrete answers, so why are you turning this into my thread again? Does it make you feel good to start off your day belittling another member of the board? Let's keep the focus off of me and keep it on Gary and the family. That's why posts are censored here because they are off topic.

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
Doc you would be great at guessing games .......:bounce

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
Yep
There are several folks that you can't mention in any kind of negative light without being censored.

In fact, even without using their name, but have an accurate enough description will get you bumped as well.

And if you have a copy of the post and try to post it as an image, that will be bumped as well.

Bottom line, this web site is not a democracy, and this post will probably be censored for stating so!

Nobody ever claimed it to be a democracy, but I would like to know who is receiving protection here? One name, please.

vgabndo - 5-8-2014 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
No one else here has any concrete answers, so why are you turning this into my thread again? Does it make you feel good to start off your day belittling another member of the board? Let's keep the focus off of me and keep it on Gary and the family. That's why posts are censored here because they are off topic.

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
Doc you would be great at guessing games .......:bounce

I have one very obvious suggestion of how you could help to keep the focus off you and your hundreds and hundreds of posts on this thread. Can you guess what it is?

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 09:07 AM

Yes for you to stop bringing attention to me. I am going to continue to post Vgabundo and not going to be ousted and censored by the Big Brother monarchy run by you and others. So far the family has not made any negative comments on my suggestions except that (and this was not directed towards me directly) some of the posts were too graphic and I have respected that.

So either deal with me or don't, it's that simple. Let's get back to Gary and the car, and by the way DENNIS this thread isn't about an old beat up car, (from the pictures it looked like a nice older running vehicle) it's about putting together pieces of the puzzle to try and figure out what happened. Lizard Lips has encouraged everyone to do that. So stop being mean, guys. One difference is, no one looks the same as you did thousands of years ago dipping the pigtails of your bullied classmates in the inkwells. So if you were one good looking built up adolescent that all the girls loved and would tolerate your bulliness and meanness, it isn't that way now. Take a good look in the mirror.

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So far the family has not made any negative comments on my suggestions except that (and this was not directed towards me directly) some of the posts were too graphic and I have respected that.

Actually, the family has said very little here. They haven't joined our discussions. That's probably one of the reasons for conversations going off-track.

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
by the way DENNIS this thread isn't about an old beat up car, it's about putting together pieces of the puzzle to try and figure out what happened.

Nonsense. This thread has morphed from victim recovery to vehicle recovery. Any chain of evidence related to that car has been compromised long ago. What's left will only widen the door to more guesswork.

David K - 5-8-2014 at 09:29 AM

I met with someone yesterday who is not a Nomad but read this thread and wants to assist, but doesn't know how. Constructive speculation without the personal bickering would be more helpful. If the non-productive posts were removed, great! Lizard Lips or the Patton family can request assistance in the search and I am sure any of us who have something to offer, will.

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 09:30 AM

Did you ever hear of cold cases being solved? After years of being put on the shelves, some comes back and reviews the material.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
by the way DENNIS this thread isn't about an old beat up car, it's about putting together pieces of the puzzle to try and figure out what happened.

CrisJk12 - 5-8-2014 at 09:39 AM

So off topic, the discussion should be about Gary period.

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Did you ever hear of cold cases being solved?

Not in the middle of Baja. You're so consumed by US TV drama that you think it applies to us wherever we go.

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 10:00 AM

Remember, DENNIS, I don't watch TV so I don't have anything to compare it to. You on the other hand....

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Quote:

Mexitron - 5-8-2014 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
by the way DENNIS this thread isn't about an old beat up car, it's about putting together pieces of the puzzle to try and figure out what happened.

I think figuring out the chain of events that happened with the truck could have everything to do with finding Gary still. The family, LL, et all, would do well to get together with the rancher in question and have a translator with them to make sure the events that transpired are clearly stated and understood.

absinvestor - 5-8-2014 at 10:08 AM

I think JustBozo's posting of earlier comments by LL are very relevant. If the truck had been at that location since Sept 2013 the battery should have been dead. I think LL needs clarification from the rancher (not the daughter.)

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 10:13 AM

Yes but the Rancher insisted from day one that the truck had only been there a week. That would make sense also.

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
I think JustBozo's posting of earlier comments by LL are very relevant. If the truck had been at that location since Sept 2013 the battery should have been dead. I think LL needs clarification from the rancher (not the daughter.)

TMW - 5-8-2014 at 10:20 AM

My guess is that the battery was dead when the rancher found the vehicle and he towed it to his place then jump started it.

DENNIS - 5-8-2014 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron

I think figuring out the chain of events that happened with the truck could have everything to do with finding Gary still.

I might agree, however, who's going to make these deductions....and with what? Would we assume the vehicle will be taken NOB and turned over to local experts? That would be a waste of time. They wouldn't touch it.
How many times have the police and the ranchers rifled through that vehicle?

mtgoat666 - 5-8-2014 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
My guess is...

just what we need, another guess!

willardguy - 5-8-2014 at 11:11 AM

from LL's conversation with the rancher. "The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead."
why are we full circle back to the battery?

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 11:26 AM

because LL just stated a few posts back that he might have been mistaken because the last conversation he had with the rancher's daughter she told him that her father had started the car up so LL needs to get clarification on this part of the story...whether it was translation related or otherwise.

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
from LL's conversation with the rancher. "The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead."
why are we full circle back to the battery?

willardguy - 5-8-2014 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
because LL just stated a few posts back that he might have been mistaken because the last conversation he had with the rancher's daughter she told him that her father had started the car up so LL needs to get clarification on this part of the story...whether it was translation related or otherwise.

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
from LL's conversation with the rancher. "The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead."
why are we full circle back to the battery?

ohhhh, I see. so the car was driveable but the rancher probably towed it to town so he had a way back to the ranch. :light:

im gettin it now...

lizard lips - 5-8-2014 at 11:48 AM

Janene PLEASE! You saw what I wrote and it came from the daughter who was there when the interview with her father took place. I usually don't miss much but in this case I did. Yes, I make mistakes. As humble as I am, being the investigator known to man, even I make an error once in awhile but when you say LL needs to get clarification? Is the battery an issue? Yes. The rancher said the vehicle was stuck in the sand-did I mention that? That was the reason the 4 Runner was towed to his place. Now information is coming forth that one or both of the back tires may have been flat….. I don't know this for sure but I believe the head cop in Catavina, Arturo, may have mentioned that to the family. I do know that one tire was changed.

Look it guys, when the vehicle is returned and some boots on the ground who will start searching give us some good intel we should know a lot more. Until then we can discuss this into the ground with analogies and supposition and believe me you guys are good with your comments. Keep em coming.

And I do speak Spanish and know exactly what was said during the interview however it looks like I missed it. It happens.

I have worked on many, over 500, murder cases in Mexico as well as many kidnappings. This is what I do not only in Mexico but in many countries all over the world. I am human and I missed it-When I see the rancher again I will confirm but I am not going to make a special trip to see him.

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by lizard lips]

micah202 - 5-8-2014 at 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
from LL's conversation with the rancher. "The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead."
why are we full circle back to the battery?

ohhhh, I see. so the car was driveable but the rancher probably towed it to town so he had a way back to the ranch. :light:

im gettin it now...

.

......brilliant deduction,,,my dear Willardguy!!

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by micah202]

rts551 - 5-8-2014 at 11:55 AM

Maybe now everyone will quit, and let LL and the family do their thing.

On edit
.
.
.
.
.
..
Nah, lets run this into the ground some more with more nonsense.

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by rts551]

msteve1014 - 5-8-2014 at 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Maybe now everyone will quit, and let LL and the family do their thing.

Don't hold your breath.

Quote:

On edit
.
.
.
.
.
..
Nah, lets run this into the ground some more with more nonsense.

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by rts551]

OK now hold your breath. It wont take long.

ligui - 5-8-2014 at 01:52 PM

I guess to guess.

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

The rancher said the vehicle was stuck in the sand-did I mention that? That was the reason the 4 Runner was towed to his place.

I don't believe that this was stated at any time. I always assumed that it was towed because it could not be started. Usually when a car is stuck you either dig it out or tow it out of the hole, not 15 miles back to the ranch.

But on a different note. The live battery suggests that the truck had been there for a short time, but doesn't the flat tire suggest that it had been there for a long time? Usually a standing vehicle will lose air over a long time. I think that we can assume that Gary did not arrive with a flat tire.

Again, nothing is certain. The trouble is that information provided is often incomplete, missing, changing, or inaccurate. It's impossible to provide any constructive suggestions this way. As facts change what made sense yesterday does not make sense today.

Personally I believe that the length of time that the vehicle had been at that location is pretty important for the following reason. If the vehicle was been there for 6 months then Gary likely drove it there and he could be found rather easily, but if it showed up after December than it's unlikely that Gary drove it there and he will be much, much harder to find.

tripledigitken - 5-8-2014 at 03:13 PM

Igor,

I remember the shovel and rake mentioned beside the stuck Toy, no?

Then again I'm not reviewing 90 pages.

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 03:29 PM

Right, Ken. The shovels suggest that he tried to dig it out.

I guess that I just can't see Gary going surfing to this remote spot for 4+ months and then driving out and getting stuck. Who spends 4 months anywhere in baja unless it's a settlement with full amenities? I realize that he is a pensioner and had the time but even so given that it is so isolated from markets it's really unlikely. An examination of the cooler may provide information if it contains something bought at the highway recently (not long before car was stuck).

If the car was dropped off by the bad guys why would they bother to try to dig it out?

Another thought: the post said that the cooler was found with water in it, which must have been melted ice. Is ice available at that surfing spot? Could Gary have purchased ice at Canoa and been coming back with it? If not then he must have still been going towards Canoa from the highway, where it would have sense to ice all his perishables before starting for the coast.

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 03:32 PM

We still don't know if it was Gary or the Rancher that tried to dig it out. If the car started the Rancher might have tried to drive it out but it got stuck. So he enlisted the rake and shovel to try to get it out. In the end it was towed most likely because the truck couldn't get out of the arroyo.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Right, Ken. The shovels suggest that he tried to dig it out.

I guess that I just can't see Gary going surfing to this remote spot for 4+ months and then driving out and getting stuck. Who spends 4 months anywhere in baja unless it's a settlement with full amenities? I realize that he is a pensioner and had the time but even so given that it is so isolated from markets it's really unlikely. An examination of the cooler may provide information if it contains something bought at the highway recently (not long before car was stuck).

If the car was dropped off by the bad guys why would they bother to try to dig it out?

durrelllrobert - 5-8-2014 at 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
I guess to guess.

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 04:18 PM

Dr.

Why would the rancher tell us that he found a shovel and rake if it was his own.

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 04:36 PM

You are right, Skipjack. He said it was by the car and someone was attempting to dig it out.

Author: Subject: CAR FOUND near Catavinia : Gary Patton - what now?
lizard lips
Super Nomad
****
Posts: 1344
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
posted on 4-5-2014 at 01:29 PM Reply With Quote Report Post to Administrator

I was the person, on behalf of the family, that interviewed the rancher that found the vehicle last Thursday. This is exactly what he told me. He said that on March 04 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and came upon Gary's vehicle in an arroyo very close to his ranch. He has 80 head and because it's an open range he often goes looking to make sure all is well. He said Gary's 4 Runner's back tires were sunk in the sand and there was a shovel and a rake close by and it appeared that someone was attempting to dig out the tires to free it up with no success.

The vehicle was locked and there was a surfboard sticking out the back window which was rolled up so the board had just enough room to stick out and where the window hit the board, the board was wrapped in a towel. The front passenger seat was pushed forward so that the board could fit all the way to the front windshield.

He was able to get into the vehicle, I didn't ask how, and he saw a small ice chest with two beers and some orange juice and water which appeared to be from the melted ice. The water was not cold to the touch. He also saw two bags of clothes containing shirts and short pants. In between the two front seats was a container with U.S. coins and when he picked up the container he noticed a set of keys that fit the ignition for the vehicle. There was also two "expensive" cameras and some canned food. Everything in the SUV appeared to be well kept and neatly organized. There were no water bottles in the car. The vehicle was dusty but not very dirty.

The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead.

He said he also went on horseback in circles for about an hour and did a small search for anything else that may be there for about an hour.

These are the directions where he said he found it: At km 189, heading south on Hwy 1, is a turn off approximately 12 km prior to reaching Catavina. There is a large sign that says "San Jose". You turn right heading towards the ocean. You stay on this dirt road for approximately 38 kilometers and come to a Y in the road. You take the dirt road to the right and travel approximately 10 kilometers and turn left and follow this dirt road another 2 km and off to the right is an arroyo about 400 meters and the vehicle was behind a small hill off to the right side. He stated that you would not be able to see the 4 Runner while traveling on the road. It was hidden from view. His ranch is about 2 km further. Very close indeed!

On March 05 the rancher reported that he drove his tractor to the vehicle and towed it to his ranch where it would be safe. Apparently other ranchers also are looking for cattle and he didn't want anything to happen to the SUV and all of the contents. After towing he drove to the Catavina Police and informed them of the vehicle. On March 09 the police came to his ranch and towed the SUV to their impound yard.

The rancher found a phone number for what he thought was the owners family and called and told them that the vehicle was found and where it was. He had no knowledge of Garys disappearance prior to locating the SUV.

This is where the interview became interesting…. The rancher said in the beginning of December 2013 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and was at this exact spot where he found the SUV on March 4 and it definitely was not there. He also mentioned that other ranchers patrol this area weekly and no one reported the abandoned vehicle. The rancher said he thinks the vehicle was only there, at the most, for one week.

It was also learned that the local habitat consists of Coyotes, Mountain Lions, and a lot of Rattle snakes.

He also said that if Gary was attempting to find someone for help, there are ranch houses nearby and several people travel that road on a daily basis. This area, of course, is not heavily populated but someone would have driven by and seen him if he was walking.

This is all he knows and he was thanked for his concern and honesty by me and the family who has also talked to him and his daughter and son whom I also met. Very nice people.

I told the family to post the information in the last post and I also told them not to revel the dates and the entire story in that I wanted to make some calls first. So it's my fault for not giving you the entire story but I am doing this now. I hope you can appreciate this in that I wanted to get the full story from another source I have and all is correct.

A call was received from the Tijuana Embassy to the Patton family that the vehicle is ready to be picked up and has been released so they are making plans to go to San Quintin, where the car is now, and drive it back. The family also told me that they want to do a search in the area where the vehicle was found towards the first part of May. I explained to the family that it's a BIG desert and won't be easy but it must be done.

Now, I'm sure some of you are concerned about the camera and the last photos that were taken on the same day he went missing as the camera had the date and time function operating. The camera was inspected Gary's son when they initially saw the SUV at the Catavina Police impound yard and his son turned the camera on and saw the photo. The photo was a picture of a little memorial that was placed on the highway where apparently an accident occurred and the family of the victim constructed it. You all have seen plenty of these. My thoughts are maybe Gary inserted this chip after he used up another one. Who knows and we won't know until the camera is returned and all of the photos are viewed.

If the ranchers thoughts are true about how long he thinks the 4 Runner was actually there then this would have been about six weeks ago that either Gary or someone else got the vehicle stuck in the sand.

After the interview I called and explained everything to the family and once again asked about Garys mental health and their thoughts about about this new information. They told me, just like before, that Gary was in a good mental state and never had any problems. Their hopes are up about what was learned and so it should be.

To date Gary's ATM card has not been used.

Thats all for now. If more information comes forward it will be posted.

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 04:39 PM

Why would he report that there were signs of digging out the vehicle if he had done it himself? <grin>

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 04:45 PM

I said I was mistaken and have already given you credit. Thanks Skipjack.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Why would he report that there were signs of digging out the vehicle if he had done it himself? <grin>

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 05:12 PM

Here's a question about the cooler they found.

If you found a cooler with cold cuts and full of ice would you think it more likely that Gary was going from hwy 1 to Canoa or would you think it likely that Gary had been at Canoa 4 months and was coming back?

EnsenadaDr - 5-8-2014 at 05:36 PM

No joke I think they should have checked the clothes for underwear, he certainly wouldn't have changed them going to canoas.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Here's a question about the cooler they found.

If you found a cooler with cold cuts and full of ice would you think it more likely that Gary was going from hwy 1 to Canoa or would you think it likely that Gary had been at Canoa 4 months and was coming back?

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
No joke I think they should have checked the clothes for underwear, he certainly wouldn't have changed them going to canoas.

Quote:

Thanks for reposting the original thread Dr. Looks like I was wrong about the cold cuts. It was orange juice that was being cooled. How likely is it that Gary was driving back from Canoa with cooled OJ? That he hadn't finished the OJ which he had bought 4+ months ago at the hwy?

tripledigitken - 5-8-2014 at 06:24 PM

Is drinking water and food stuffs available at Canoa?

David K - 5-8-2014 at 07:40 PM

Looked like a small commercial fishing camp... not a town, no stores. However, that was a few years ago. If the surfing Nomads who have a sworn vow of silence on the Seven Sisters will speak on this, then they will have better info.

Oh, and there is an s in CANOAS :light:

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by David K]

Ateo - 5-8-2014 at 07:46 PM

There ain't no food or drink out there, unless you're buying the fisherman's supply. No stores for 40 miles. Let's remember, this is one of the most remote areas in Baja. Sure there are more remote areas, but this is definitely a "bring what you need in" area. Think some stretch of Arizona desert, without highway 8.

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by Ateo]

tripledigitken - 5-8-2014 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
There ain't no food or drink out there.....but this is definitely a "bring what you need in" area....

That's what I thought. So how could Gary survive out there from Sept to March without regular visits to Catavina or El Rosario for supplies? As I recall, the odometer didn't indicate an allowance for the amount of extra mileage for supply trips over the course of six months. (without the issue of no ATM withdrawals for living expenses over that long period of time being factored in)

It doesn't add up to me that it could have been Gary in March getting stuck and walking away from his Toyota at the arroyo site.

CortezBlue - 5-8-2014 at 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Nobody ever claimed it to be a democracy, but I would like to know who is receiving protection here? One name, please.

If I told you that you would have to censor me!!

Skipjack Joe - 5-8-2014 at 09:03 PM

This is an interesting quote from the LLs original post:

Quote:

He also said that if Gary was attempting to find someone for help, there are ranch houses nearby and several people travel that road on a daily basis. This area, of course, is not heavily populated but someone would have driven by and seen him if he was walking.

The rancher says that there is enough traffic on that road that he would have encountered someone on the road within a day's wait. This is strange because there was enough liquid in the car to have been able to wait that long. And the main road was easy to find, all he had to do was follow his own car's tracks to it.

So if this is right why wasn't he picked up? Was he just unlucky?

Another thought:

When providing evidence is it common for people to put forth more strongly evidence that support a theory they already have made and refrain mentioning information that doesn't support it? This is just normal human nature. I think we all do it when we try to convince one another. I'm wondering if investigators and even witnesses do the same.

Because, frankly, there is too much conflicting information here.

To me it looks there is 2 kinds of information -

concrete information:
1. odometer miles
2. location of vehicle
3. shove and rakes with buried tires and digging signs
4. expensive cameras still present
5. content of icebox
6. clothes neatly packed.
7. money and keys on front seat

less solid information:
1. "I would have seen the vehicle if it was there 2 months ago"
2. "there is enough traffic that he should have been picked up"

Strangely the two types contradict one another.

ligui - 5-9-2014 at 05:52 AM

It's a new day .... time to make a new guess .

absinvestor - 5-9-2014 at 08:29 AM

Skipjack-good summary.

micah202 - 5-9-2014 at 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I said I was mistaken and have already given you credit. Thanks Skipjack.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Why would he report that there were signs of digging out the vehicle if he had done it himself? <grin>

....ooooohh--'credit' now,,,,,what's -that- good for?? :yawn:

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by micah202]

absinvestor - 5-9-2014 at 08:42 AM

One other thought. Might be too late but orange juice that sat for 6 months would be totally rancid vs orange juice that might only have been warm for a few days.

DENNIS - 5-9-2014 at 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
One other thought. Might be too late but orange juice that sat for 6 months would be totally rancid

Probably more like solid........or, with a loose lid, evaporated.

bajacalifornian - 5-9-2014 at 09:58 AM

Or . . . if crumbs of Bimbo bread from his lips . . . last forever.

durrelllrobert - 5-9-2014 at 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
One other thought. Might be too late but orange juice that sat for 6 months would be totally rancid vs orange juice that might only have been warm for a few days.

Are you referring to OJ (Simpson) who has been sitting in jail for six years?

ligui - 5-9-2014 at 11:49 AM

Now we are guessing when a person changes his underwear ? Way to go ...

How long does Bimbo last ? Any guesses ? Doc .

:spingrin:

tiotomasbcs - 5-9-2014 at 11:54 AM

Is there a search going on now? Hopefully we get some info from LL and/or the Family. The trail must surely be very cold by now. Hopefully a few clues are uncovered. Tio

David K - 5-9-2014 at 11:55 AM

End of the month... hopefully.

absinvestor - 5-9-2014 at 02:13 PM

The purpose of the orange juice comment relates to the difference of opinion as to how long the truck had been at the found location.

woody with a view - 5-9-2014 at 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
Now we are guessing when a person changes his underwear ? Way to go ...

How long does Bimbo last ? Any guesses ? Doc .

:spingrin:

OR, how long does it take a Bimbo to change underwear?

Hook - 5-9-2014 at 02:38 PM

Hey, this post is now the most replied to post in the history of Nomaddom. :biggrin:

I wonder if the number of pages can handle triple digits?

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by Hook]

motoged - 5-9-2014 at 02:50 PM

Freshly squeezed OJ in Baja will begin to ferment within a day in a vehicle if not refrigerated/cooled.....that crap that they sell in bottles is like Tang and refuses to degrade.....ever :light:

Doc and juice theorists: what kind of juice was it?

It is most likely the vehicle was dumped there without Gary....but this is like most of the comments....idle speculation :light:

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2014 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Freshly squeezed OJ in Baja will begin to ferment within a day in a vehicle if not refrigerated/cooled.....that crap that they sell in bottles is like Tang and refuses to degrade.....ever :light:

why doesn't someone check the expiration date on the OJ container? and if you don't happen to have the container handy, then just make up a date!

absinvestor - 5-9-2014 at 03:10 PM

mtgoat666-Sometimes the simple answer is not obvious.

durrelllrobert - 5-9-2014 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
Now we are guessing when a person changes his underwear ? Way to go ...

How long does Bimbo last ? Any guesses ? Doc .

:spingrin:

OR, how long does it take a Bimbo to change underwear?

..or turn it into a Dream Catcher?

CrisJk12 - 5-9-2014 at 04:52 PM

checking the expiration date would of been a good idea.

State of Gary Patton's Car in Cataviña

Marla Daily - 5-9-2014 at 04:56 PM

We were in Cataviña yesterday and we stopped to check out Gary Patton's car and to take photos of it. The left rear (driver's side) tire on the car is the spare tire. It looks like Gary must have gotten a flat tire somewhere. The flat tire is inside the car, upright, behind the front passenger seat.

The left front driver's side tire is currently flat.

The rear window is closed. Inside the car is an orange boogie board on top of a surf board; his pack; cooler; clothes and personal gear. The right side back door is unlocked!

There was no one at the police station ~ it was closed up.

No one at the hotel knew the name of the rancher who had found the car. When the Patton family members come down, best thing to do is to have the cops show you the spot from which it was towed at the ranch. Have the rancher show you where the car was found. No doubt the cops will need gas money.

See my post about their ambulance!

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 07:57 AM

Wow Marla incredible that the back door was open. Seems to me that vehicle is just begging for the family to rummage through it and find clues. You know people here are right, the guessing game is a waste of time without solid evidence, probably an inventory could have been done on the vehicle initially, and a search party later. But with no one getting down there that has authority to go through the vehicle and with the back door open, who knows who has rummaged through what and taken things. It's an 8 hour drive from Orange County where the family lives and this inventory and organization of a search party could be done on a long weekend. Unless we know what for sure is in the vehicle and dates of expiration etc. no one here can make a solid guess. This mystery begs the assistance of the family at this point.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

woody with a view - 5-10-2014 at 08:10 AM

another of life's little mysteries. unfortunately, the truth will never be told unless some drug-crazed zombie spills his guts to save his soul-what are the chances of that?

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 08:25 AM

Unfortunately Woody, without no more to go on and nobody driving down here and doing a concrete inventory the trail has gone cold. All of these ideas, the underwear, the orange juice expiration date are excellent but without answers to these questions, people are wasting their time and spinning their wheels. There is only so much Nomads can do and getting into the car and inspecting is obviously not one of them. Marla was kind and good enough to make the valiant effort but she had no access.

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
another of life's little mysteries. unfortunately, the truth will never be told unless some drug-crazed zombie spills his guts to save his soul-what are the chances of that?

woody with a view - 5-10-2014 at 08:45 AM

no access? the door was open wasn't it? i hope your doctoral skills are better than your detective skills.

does anyone REALLY think, after 8 months that Gary will be found? it would be a miracle!!!

rts551 - 5-10-2014 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
no access? the door was open wasn't it? i hope your doctoral skills are better than your detective skills.

does anyone REALLY think, after 8 months that Gary will be found? it would be a miracle!!!

Maybe if you check the underwear?

woody with a view - 5-10-2014 at 09:04 AM

FWIW, if the family ever does get out to the ranch and can make it to the campo at san jose ask for Sra Mercedes and her son Israel. they will have any info to be had from local gossip.

[Edited on 5-11-2014 by BajaNomad]

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 09:26 AM

I assume that there a was gate around the police station area and Marla was looking through the gate, but maybe not. Stop with the low blows Woody. I also think that if there was no gate and the door was open all that stuff in his car would be long gone, if no one was at the police station. Maybe Marla could clarify if there was a gate around the car. Also since Marla went as far as taking pictures, I would have thought she might look inside and take pictures inside as well.

Quote:

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Mexitron - 5-10-2014 at 09:40 AM

Is Senora Mercedes the lady that lives up San Jose Canyon on a ranch? I met that lady a couple times...she's the one who owned.sold Vibara to the conservancy

bajaguy - 5-10-2014 at 09:41 AM

Don't assume, Doc.....you know what the say about assuming.

There is no gate around the police station or the delegation.

When I drove by in March, the 4Runner was parked in the lot with several other vehicles......I didn't stop, since it really is none of my business to be poking around the car without permission from the family.....or the police

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I assume that there a was gate around the police station area and Marla was looking through the gate, but maybe not. Stop with the low blows Woody. I also think that if there was no gate and the door was open all that stuff in his car would be long gone, if no one was at the police station. Maybe Marla could clarify if there was a gate around the car. Also since Marla went as far as taking pictures, I would have thought she might look inside and take pictures inside as well.

Quote:

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by bajaguy]

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 09:45 AM

I'm just surprised more stuff isn't gone, and Marla was trying to help I am sure by passing by. Maybe the policeman lives on the property and so no one tries to steal anything, as far as I am concerned I am surprised the boogie board and the surfboard are still in the car.

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Don't assume, Doc.....you know what the say about assuming.

There is no gate around the police station or the delegation.

When I drove by in March, the 4Runner was parked in the lot with several other vehicles......I didn't stop, since it really is none of my business to be poking around the car without permission from the family.....or the police

Quote:

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by bajaguy]

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 09:48 AM

The underwear was not my idea so I am not going to take credit for it but that would surely show if Gary had just left San Quintin that morning or had been on the road for several days...(some have remarked here they don't wear chonies so I don't know)

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Maybe if you check the underwear?

Photo from Marla Daily

David K - 5-10-2014 at 09:58 AM

This was emailed to me this morning to post on Nomad....

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 10:03 AM

Wow my initial reaction is how sad this whole situation is. Yes I see the spare tire on the back driver's side, does this mean Gary had changed the tire after he got stuck in the arroyo or before? Looks like someone probably lives at that house/police station but who knows. Nice little SUV.

vgabndo - 5-10-2014 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr Unless we know what for sure is in the vehicle and dates of expiration etc. no one here can make a solid guess.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Life would be a lot less irritating for the other people who have an interest in this affair if you took your own advice. If you were listening to your own advice, you would have several hundred less posts on this thread. Since the vehicle was (as best I can understand it) released for family pick-up a couple of months ago, and the family, to this day, hasn't bothered to take a drive to check it out I judge that they have only a passing interest in "getting to the bottom" of the story. Remember, it hasn't been 'that' long ago that the family was urging us to be on the look-out for a guy with real long hair and a beard. In my own case, the family never responded to either of my offers to meet someone in Cataviña on 5 hours notice. I now rescind that offer because it makes no sense that I care more about this than the family does. Maybe they got so many offers of five hour response time that they just couldn't be expected to contact everyone to tell us they no longer were asking for assistance. (Yes, that is snark not conjecture.)

woody with a view - 5-10-2014 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Is Senora Mercedes the lady that lives up San Jose Canyon on a ranch? I met that lady a couple times...she's the one who owned.sold Vibara to the conservancy

they used to live right at the beach on the estuary side and then when the sale went thru moved about a mile back on the north side of the road coming in.

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 10:13 AM

You are 100% correct Vgabndo. I apologize to you and to others that it took me so long to "see the light". I wonder if the family even took a written inventory. If so then they didn't post it here to notify the Nomads who are examining this with a fine toothed comb (including myself). I didn't realize you as well as others had offered personal assistance.

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr Unless we know what for sure is in the vehicle and dates of expiration etc. no one here can make a solid guess.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

Marla Daily - 5-10-2014 at 10:32 AM

Just to clarify: I checked all the car doors and found the one door unlocked, which I opened. The only thing I touched was the upright tire. I poked it with my thumb to confirm it is flat, and it is.
I touched nothing else. I looked inside and closed the door, leaving it as I found it. I had posted notice I was going to be in Cataviña if there was anything I could do for the family. No one got back to me, so I investigated no further.

Thank you David K for posting the photo.

Marla Daily - 5-10-2014 at 10:35 AM

I will be in Cataviña again at the end of the month. I am happy to assist if the family has any specific requests.

DENNIS - 5-10-2014 at 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marla Daily
No one got back to me, so I investigated no further.

Frustrating!!!!

I'm not sure that's the word to describe this.

.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by DENNIS]

EnsenadaDr - 5-10-2014 at 10:41 AM

As Bajaguy mentioned about staying away from the car, it might be ok to take a few pictures but tampering with evidence on police property especially in Mexico could incorporate jail time and a fine. Please take any self-incriminating posts off this thread.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

woody with a view - 5-10-2014 at 10:42 AM

i'll be passing by june 7. we speak spanish so if there are any serious requests u2u them so they don't get lost here.

DENNIS - 5-10-2014 at 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Please take any self-incriminating posts off this thread.

Ohhhh lordy. The TV drama never ends. :lol:

tripledigitken - 5-10-2014 at 10:48 AM

Someone who gets close enough to open the door could lock it.

pappy - 5-10-2014 at 12:27 PM

don't assume gary changed the tire. too bad someone can't dust the interior, spare and flat tire(inside) for prints, though I don't know what kind of data base(for prints) if any Baja/mexico has...

rts551 - 5-10-2014 at 01:45 PM

Prints? by now just about everyones.

motoged - 5-11-2014 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
.... You know people here are right, the guessing game is a waste of time ......
[Edited on 5-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

:lol

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