BajaNomad - The Villages of Loreto Bay

The Villages of Loreto Bay

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capt. mike - 8-3-2004 at 02:22 PM

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Freedom and free enterprise rock!!!!

BTW - still looking for that list?

I get the impression

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 03:26 PM

that some on here have no concept of preserving some of the natural environments on the planet. This is beyond my comprehension!
How many people pay you to fly over lost angeles or orange county Mike? And how many are going to pay you to fly over Baja when it looks just like those places?
And on top of that, Baja is one of the most unspoiled pieces of land on the planet. There's hardly any unspoiled places left. And Baja is one of the most unique.
I'm starting to think that you have probably not seen much of it besides the inside of your trailer or hammered in serenidad.
That is the only possible explanation I can think of for such an uncaring, selfish, and highly destructive attitude.
Is there a picture of you if I look up "gringo" in the encyclopedia?

come on JR! can't you see that it's fun

capt. mike - 8-3-2004 at 04:15 PM

to get you and "wilderone" so riled up?

Ok - i'll back off, you're obviously way too sensitive about all this. Trust me, because i do fly ALL OVER BAJA i can tell and other ground pounders there is WAY more of the peninsula raw and pristine than you can concepualize. Development hasn't made the slightest dent buddy. Only concentrated in a few areas mostly. And those will continue minor growth due to DEMAND! when demand and market forces dictate, they will level off.

So don't lose any sleep over it 'cause baja will survive for eons as a remote desert, much of it as a preserve due to lack of demand or interest from the evil land rapers and their clientel.

:bounce:

Hey Grover

FrankO - 8-3-2004 at 07:55 PM

Dude, the pics you posted don't belong on this post.

Pictures

JZ - 8-3-2004 at 08:01 PM

Thinking the same thing!

Anonymous - 8-3-2004 at 09:55 PM

Hi guys, someone had made the point that there is lots of undeveloped land on the peninsula. Some places are special and perhaps they ought to be preserved or protected regardless of wether other places are or are not developed. Jobs paying a living wage and going to locals is defintely a strong reason to go ahead with a project, but MAYBE not enough by itself to justify a project.

Thanks! Better for the off-topic posts

JZ - 8-3-2004 at 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover
I'm sorry guys. Removed posthaste.

Extremism

rogerj1 - 8-3-2004 at 10:57 PM

I'm hearing that there's only one side to this story and if you disagree with it, well then there is something wrong with you. The fact that there are many people who are very comfortable with the opposite side of the argument is irrelevant. There's no interest in finding a middle ground, but then that would be boring. There's only the drama of the extreme and the insightfulness the person on the extreme possesses. Oh well, I guess that's how politics works.

wilderone - 8-4-2004 at 09:00 AM

What utter nonsense. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. The facts speak for themselves; if you have a dispute with any of the facts, I'd like to hear them, otherwise, your rhetoric rings hollow.

Middle Ground?

capn.sharky - 8-4-2004 at 11:53 AM

Roger---what would be middle ground in this situation? This is a hugh project that definately will have an enviornmental impact on this area. I lean towards being against such a large project (except for the possibilities that my neighbors will make some money to feed their families). On the other hand, it is far enough out of Loreto so as not to have a visual impact on the people. Actually, I lean against any project that involves foreigners living grouped together in Mexico. I think it is rude to the native Mexicans and feeds their conception that we think we are above them. I also don't see this project being finished up as promised to the locals. It won't be the first time the Loreto Mexican people have been conned. They are used to it.

Middle Ground?

rogerj1 - 8-4-2004 at 02:51 PM

Compromise. Meet somewhere in the middle. Since none of us have any pull or sway, as far as I know, this is somewhat irrelevant, yet for the sake of argument, isn't that how things get accomplished? It sure doesn't happen by taking a hard position and lobbing bombs at anyone who dares disagree with you.

Lobbing Bombs

jrbaja - 8-4-2004 at 03:06 PM

Roger, Mike and I hurl bombs at each other regularly on this topic. He feels as strongly about his wrong ideas as I do about my right ones. hahahahahaha
But actually, this has been a rather mild and civilized thread compared to some. :lol:

Ain't no thing but a chicken wing as they say in some circles. :lol:

The day they have marina's in...

JZ - 8-4-2004 at 03:43 PM

...Bahia de Los Angeles, Conception, and Loreto will be a great day! :bounce:

And San Carlos and LA PAZ as starting, stopping points.

Wow. Wouldn't that be something! It's probabable, but not for a long time.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by JZ]

well JR, ol' buddy......

capt. mike - 8-4-2004 at 04:53 PM

i am glad we can respectfully disagree on some things (you're still way off base!) but still be friends i hope.

Hey, at least i didn't call you a pendejo! HA HA!!! :lol:

It may be moot for me as an interest 'cause i'm workin' now on something that will put 95% of my spare time, energy and enthusiasm towards something on the mainland down old San Carlos way......24 years putting around baja, time for some fresh scenery.

but i'll still be a baja fan and check in on the happenings from time to time here, i just don't care much to get involved on the debates. I 'll just watch the progress....slow or fast, mainly slowwwwww.........

Baja is better

jrbaja - 8-4-2004 at 05:11 PM

Glad to see you are using your ideas elsewhere Mike. This peninsula is too narrow for that kind of stuff.
But, you'll be back to Baja. Ain't no other place like it!
And we will be gettin hammered in the Serenidad together you development minded pendejo. :lol:

Other than that, yer OK in my books!

elizabeth - 8-14-2004 at 10:16 AM

I was just reading the 1971 Sunset Travel Guide to Baja California...and ran across this description of Nopolo...
"About 7 miles after the road from Loreto joins the main highway you come to the hidden cove of Nopolo. Herons and egrets stand motionless in the mangrove estero you pass on the way in. The cove itself is small and secluded, with a white crescent beach which ends at a rocky section of tidepools and large sea caves. It is a good place for swimming, crabbing, diving for scallops, or just fishwatching. When the tide is low, you can stand on the tidepool shelf and watch a colorful array of troical fish in the underwater gardens."

[Edited on 8-14-2004 by elizabeth]

[Edited on 8-14-2004 by elizabeth]

And now

jrbaja - 8-14-2004 at 10:44 AM

you can try and sneak across the golf course and bridge, maybe make it to the beach and tidepools, before being escorted out. :lol:

Viva Baja

Beth

Skeet/Loreto - 8-14-2004 at 01:25 PM

A good description of how it Was in 1971.

Just south of there the Tourist would not Pick up their own Trash on the Beach at Esconida.

I have stood in waist High Water at Ensenada Blanc ,cast and caught 40 lb. Dorado.

An American wass fishing in Waist High Water at the inlet to Escondida when he hooked a large Doroda, got a Birdsnest in his Reel and Promptly Died of a Massive Heart Attack.

A group of Asians where catching yellowtail and Dorado off the Beach, canning it and taking it to the States for Sale.Cases and Cases.

Things Change.

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust'

Nopolo in Summer of 1973

David K - 8-14-2004 at 01:50 PM

Was great with a mask and snorkle... floated over the sting rays in the sand to the rocks by the island. It was recently connected to the beach by a man made sand isthmus. I remember feeding the colorful fish (they loved tortillas). Some palapas were put up just north for the future resort. In '73 we saw yellowtail being caught from the Puerto Escondido pier... unreal! We camped at Puerto/ Bahia Escondido on our '76 trip... right on the water... was great. Visited Ligui and thought the beach (east of the mission) was very inviting... looked very tropical. Missed driving south from the mission site to view Ensenada Blanca. Didn't see that until my last trip to Sur (12/2001)... Wow what a view.

bajalera - 8-16-2004 at 08:49 PM

What, DK, you haven't been down here since 2001? You really ought to try to make it to our Oct? Nov? Dec? party and get in touch with the Sur.

Lee

Lera

Skeet/Loreto - 8-16-2004 at 09:03 PM

Good Point. We need Him to come down South to really Discover Baja>

i put up 2 Dates for the Baja-sur Nomad Party Nov. 16th or Thanksgiving Weekend.

I will talk to Tucker Friday and see what he thinks about the Dates. If you like i would buy your Breakfast, Lunch, or Dinner in La Paz. I will be at the Marina Hotel Thursday Night.

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust"

Villages of Loreto Bay

Marie-Rose - 8-29-2004 at 09:23 PM

Husband's work partner was in Loreto a couple of weeks ago and said the building has started??? Anyone around there to confirm? Phil S...?

The First Building is being Constructed!

Skeet/Loreto - 8-30-2004 at 04:20 AM

Where is the Water?????

Skeet

First bldg.

capn.sharky - 8-31-2004 at 09:51 PM

I remember when the french bought Puerto Escondido from the Italians (or the other way around). They were putting in streets, curbs and lights and I was really depressed. My friend John told me not to worry as it would all end soon. He was right. One day everything was deserted. They never returned. Of course the Canadians have to put something up down there---they can't just keep on lying. Skeet is right---where is the fresh water going to come from. Where is the sewer treatment plant going to be. I can see it now---American Bastards and Canadians living side by side----Yuk. What a horrible existence, eh? They may even bring in fake snow at Christmas. They sure have done alot to help us in Iraq. Hold up Sharky boy, this is turning into a political post. No bueno. Lo Siento Amigos. It will never happen again (tonight).

where is the h2o

Anonymous - 8-31-2004 at 09:56 PM

I heard they were getting water from the Magdaleina Plain,no more orange juice. and the sewer plant will be next to the BULLring... :lol:

Marie-Rose - 10-29-2004 at 05:20 PM

So....what's happening???
Didn't want to let this get too far away in case JR wins the "most viewed posts"!!

Bruce R Leech - 10-29-2004 at 06:21 PM

After reading all that I just need to put my two cents in
#1

#2
Another Baja Project to destroy one more Beach

[Edited on 4-12-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

so....what's wrong with a

capt. mike - 10-30-2004 at 06:29 AM

moor beach? i theeenk it would be a great idea, especially for boaters - they can always use moorings, never enuff. :lol:

bajalera - 10-30-2004 at 11:29 AM

In 1966 I worked briefly in La Paz for Alfredo Escobedo, a real estate entrepreneur, who had on his office wall a map of Puerto Escondido all neatly divided up into home sites. This place was a long way from anywhere via the bad old road, and I always wondered how Alfredo expected prospective buyers to get there. Now I know--a MOOR beach!

And you think Bruce should get a spell-check? Leave him be!

bajalera

Loreto Bay

Phil S - 10-30-2004 at 09:20 PM

Hi Marie Rose. To answer your question, the first casa is approaching the 70% done stage. It is located across from the entrance into the golf course. Many workers doing the ditching & installation of sewer & water & electric lines. I was disappointed that only one has been started, but they say that another 25 are about to get "going"!! Skeet. You are beginning to sound like an old phonograph I used to own that just kept repeating itself!!! Where the water???? Water is there. Has been for over 25 years. Comes from well, in the San Juan valley (MP 26) on the ranchero of Juan & Nena Drew. It supplies all of Loreto area, and I wouldn't be surprised if it also supplies Pto Escondido. (Skeet. You know I know your concerns, and I'm just jiving you).Which by the way, has NEW STUFF HAPPENING> The road you used to take to get to the sea wall looking straight into the harbor is now fenced off???? The marine gas station looks completed??? But not open for business. They started charging for the moorage in the marina, and so far 100% of the boats have or are going to be moving out. Alot are in the 'waiting room' or the launching area where the dingy dock is located. Costs would run from about $150.00 a month upwards to $500.00 depending upon the size of the boats. Not one Mexican official consulted with any of the boaters or the Sailing Club during all this. One boater says that he thinks they have just "shot themselves in their foot"!!!!! A five page rental agreement was offered for the moorages they placed in the harbor earlier this year. One of the agreements was that if the boater didn't continue to pay his rent, they could take possession of the boat & sell it for the fees.That sounded reasonable, but the rest of the agreement was kind of scary!!!

Condo's at Nopolo/Loreto Bay

Phil S - 10-30-2004 at 09:32 PM

For those who have been watching this thread, the condo's that have been in construction by a Mexican contractor from the mainland at Nopolo, now has Phase II in construction. They are about to pour the third floor (last floor) Of the 24 units when done (two buildings) there ar only four more units left to sell. Many buyers are those who flew down to see the Loreto Bay project, and bought condo's instead. Phase II prices doubled from Phase I A two bedroom 2 bath unit on middle floor selling for $249,000 I've met the owner, Caezar & his brother Jesus, and they are straight shooters from the 'get go'. They are now hoping to acquire more land to continue the building, once Phase II is completed. Good things are happening here!!!!! (I know. Depends upon whose 'point of view'!!!) Last offering in October of Loreto Bay lots with houses sold approx.l 25 units, for a total of $8,000,000.00 Those were spendy homes. Huh???? Marie Rose. You should have bought in Loreto area!!! We could play some golf together, then have a drink in the lounge at the golf center, then a swim in the outdoor pool, then dinner in the restaurant. Doesn't that sound exciting????!!!!!!! JR. I bet that comment prompts a response from you. Right????

David K - 10-30-2004 at 09:45 PM

Phil... it will be like pouring gasoline on a fire...

Ah what the hell

jrbaja - 10-31-2004 at 08:02 AM

I think it's time for all those locals to learn the true family values and morals of a bunch of rico gringos anyway.
One thing for sure, those rich dirtbags buying these places have better and more drugs than what's available down here anyway.
Might be a pleasant change to see a bunch of zombies walking around in Loreto.
Viva Soma, Valium, and the short, unhealthy lives your money buys you! :lol:

It ain't gonna work! And I'm gonna love the outcome and whining later. Just like Punta Banda.

I must Move on with my Life! Its getting Shorter by the Day!!

Skeet/Loreto - 10-31-2004 at 10:35 AM

PhilS. thanks for the newest Info on Loreto, I will depend on you for an update often.
Loreto will survive, Loreto Bay Villages will make Money{Ask around about the Reputation of the lady Selling Lots}.
Hope the Water Hold s out for all those People. Loreto is a Jewel, its people are Great.
I just sold my last Lot our North and will not be back for awhile, I am off to the The PanHandle of Texas to live the Rest of my Life in Clean Air and Drinking Clean Water, living with a lot of Texas Christains in a Town where they spend their money for Churches instead if Drugs and Boose!!

15 Deer in my Front Yard, near the Palo Duro Canyon State Park.
See you sometime Phil S.

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust"

XIT

bajalou - 10-31-2004 at 11:08 AM

Maybe I'll see you at the XIT Reunion - Rodeo - Barbeque next year (FREE barbeque for about 15,000 people), Skeet, This year it was great - first weekend in August - Dalhart Texas

Good luck to you and yours, skeet - keep posting.

:biggrin:

Marie-Rose - 10-31-2004 at 02:07 PM

Phil
Thanks for the update! Hopefully just because we bought in Todos doesn't mean we won't be able to enjoy the fun at the Villages :lol:

I have no doubt that an investment made in Nopolo would probably be a money maker but we fell in love!! We love our Mexican neighborhood and look forward to spending many years making Casa Loma our special place. We are hoping that the large developments stay away from Todos...then when we want to be pampered...we'll go to them!!! (and hopefully meet there: :yes:

wilderone - 11-1-2004 at 09:35 AM

Where the water???? Water is there. Has been for over 25 years. Comes from well, in the San Juan valley (MP 26) on the ranchero of Juan & Nena Drew. It supplies all of Loreto area, and I wouldn't be surprised if it also supplies Pto Escondido."
The Loreto Bay project is touted as a "sustainable" community. Supposedly, the they will produce more water than they use. Supposedly FONATUR has a hand in building either a desalinization or reverse osmosis plant to provide the water for the "new town" of Loreto Bay. Those are the promises - that is the hype. IS THIS HAPPENING?

bajalou

Skeet/Loreto - 11-1-2004 at 01:38 PM

Thanks Lou!
The mare is heading for Texas Wed. with the 'Cowboys for Christ" Team,we will be in an settled in for the winter in about 2 weeks, have plans to spend sometime in Dalhart as my Uncle Bob Haggerton was a Boot Maker there, oh so many years ago, made me my first Pair if Stove Tops.
Going to miss Baja even more. Stay loose and Stay Happy. Skeet/Loreto

elizabeth - 11-1-2004 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil S
Where the water???? Water is there. Has been for over 25 years. Comes from well, in the San Juan valley (MP 26) on the ranchero of Juan & Nena Drew. It supplies all of Loreto area, and I wouldn't be surprised if it also supplies Pto Escondido.

Water is not an infinite resource...

Water

Skeet/Loreto - 11-3-2004 at 09:58 AM

Elisbeth!

Several years ago when the presidente Hotel Golf Course Was built there was notenought Water for the Village of Loreto thereby the people of Loreto Closed down the hwy and Forced the Gov. to Drill 9 new Wells in the Mountains above Loreto to the North.

The Gov. also bought all the Waters Rights from the Ranches except for 2. All the Water from San Juan is consumed. On one of the Ranches a Deeper Well is being planed to supply a Distilled Water Business. Better check again on Where and How Much Water is coming from San Juan.

Skeet/Loreto

elizabeth - 11-3-2004 at 11:32 AM

Skeet

Thanks for the detail...That was my point in responding to Phil's plenty of water comment....

Again...water is not an infinite resource!

Don't worry Elizabeth

jrbaja - 11-3-2004 at 11:37 AM

Comprehension and spelling aren't that important :lol:

synch - 11-5-2004 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

CJ wrote:
LORETO BAY
Dream on.....Puerto Escondido, Escalara Nautica, and now Loreto Bay LaTijerta are you going to the "lot" party? If so get me one too!
CJ

I was just in Loreto and the Dive shop launched from the marina at Puerto Escondido. I noticed that huge development of street lights and cul-de-sacs but no homes.

Reminded me of Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings fiasco in Phoenix 15 years ago.

Great that you found the Lord, Skeet.

Hook - 11-5-2004 at 02:02 PM

Just don't let him find you sooner rather than later by way of a twister. You are moving to Tornado Alley.

Hook

Skeet/Loreto - 11-5-2004 at 05:48 PM

Thanks for the Wqarning Hook!. I was riding around in a 38 Plymouth in Amarillo in 1949 when the Toronado Hit and Killed 7 people. i can still remember seeing a Story and a half go flying over at least 25 feet above the Car during Lighting Flashes/

The Good lord will take care of me as he has on so many occasions in the past..

P.S. The new Home has a two room Toronda Basement,

Skeet/Loreto

synch - 11-8-2004 at 02:28 PM

flyfishingpam - May I ask if you are associated with any of the SCUBA divce shops in Loreto?

I was just there and went with Dolphin Dive, but when walking around town I saw 4+ other SCUBA shops...

Skeet is Correct about the water

capn.sharky - 11-8-2004 at 10:12 PM

It is doubtful that there will be enough water to support alot of growth in Loreto. People seem to forget that Baja is desert and dry. Yes there is water---but is there enough? Fonatur is famous for not listening to their engineers. For instance the El Camino Real is built on backfill as it once was a beautiful estuary. Now it is an ugly golf course. The hotel will sink over the years to come---according to the engineers. I believe it is sinking a little each day now. You golfers will take exception to the term ugly golf course---but to me the natural desert is much prettier than a golf course. Golf is for the feeble minded with little else to occupy their mind. Iraq would make a delightful golf course and dodging the morters would make the game much more fun to watch and play. :lol:

Loreto Bay

Phil S - 11-9-2004 at 07:29 AM

Capt. Sharky. "Golf is for feeble minded" you say. I know alot of Democrat golfers. Are you saying that they are feeble minded for voting for Kerry??? I have breakfast & occational lunch at Camino Real, and haven't noticed that I've got to "step down" when walking into the complex. Your comment about the hotel 'sinking' into the sand originated at the Cafe Ole, during the construction time. If I remember correctly, someone said that the first floor had already sunk into the ground, and you walked into the second story, and they stopped construction because of it. But when I got down here and checked it out, that wasn't the problem for their stopping construction. Are you one of the regulars at Cafe Ole in the 9 a.m. session??

Image of Construction of the First home

flyfishinPam - 11-9-2004 at 09:09 AM

In case you were wondering, here's an image taken on Sunday of the first home. There were at least a dozen workers busy in there on detail work (on a Sunday!). The properties are having the electricity and water installed and near this lone structure are at least a half a dozen new foundations.

Well I'd post it if could figure out this BB code...

[Edited on 11-9-2004 by flyfishinPam]

[Edited on 11-9-2004 by flyfishinPam]

Dive Shop...

flyfishinPam - 11-9-2004 at 09:16 AM

..no I am not related to any dive shops and I've only tank dove one time. I'd like to do it again. I went with Rafael of Dolphin Dive Center and IMO he's the best in town.

Is that what

jrbaja - 11-9-2004 at 09:38 AM

$500.000.00 buys you in Mexico these days? Or is that one of the million dollar versions? :lol:

wilderone - 11-9-2004 at 09:48 AM

In August, they promised the first 10 in Phase 1a, to be built by the end of the year - that's 7 weeks. No wonder they've got crews working on Sunday.

I dunno.....

flyfishinPam - 11-9-2004 at 11:06 AM

...what price model this is, only that this is the first one being built. I took several images at the request of one of the founders. If they said 10 complete by the end of the year then they'll be behind schedule. Everyone knows that most things fall behind in Mexico. Happens in the US too as my folks built a home in Reno, NV and it took 18 months, one year behind schedule.

elgatoloco - 11-9-2004 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
In August, they promised the first 10 in Phase 1a, to be built by the end of the year.......

Did they say which year? :biggrin:

Loreto Bays delayed construction

Phil S - 11-9-2004 at 05:48 PM

Anyone ever hear of Mexican Gov't delays getting papers signed off, so new owners c an get "going". I'm told that is what has happened with the Loreto Bay project. So apparantly the project just got underway couple months ago, as they now own legal title to the construction area. So most likely we'll see some pretty progressive construction now that they are in fee title possession. Not much activity at the golf course with "feeble minded" people playing as Sharky calles them, on occation. One of these days I'm going to go out and feebily knock those dumb balls around the course for some R&R. (R&R must mean retard & regressed)

wilderone - 11-10-2004 at 09:57 AM

There's not a hint of any delays in their periodic newsletters. I don't know why they can't be honest with the people who have spent thousands of dollars to have their house built. Never ending false promises. In any event, it would tell me, I couldn't trust their word.

If they were honest,

jrbaja - 11-10-2004 at 11:08 AM

the victims wouldn't invest their money. :lol:

wilderone - 11-10-2004 at 02:27 PM

Well, there is a hint of honesty in small print in their latest newsletter: After a lengthy article describing the wonders of the Beach Club, the small print at the bottom states: "The beach club is a proposed improvement. Because there is currently no estimated date of completion for the beach club, no warranty may be given or implied that the beach club will actually be completed."

Loreto Bay

Anonymous - 11-24-2004 at 01:34 AM

I have read all of your responses about Loreto Bay. My sister really wants to buy a place there for the future. It does look like a good development. Isn't better to have a planned development compared to an unplanned development of a certain area ? Since when left unplanned there is no control when it comes to overpopulatian and residental planinng.
What do you guys think

Worldtraveller - 11-26-2004 at 09:49 AM

From website, the development looks very attractive. A friend went to a sales seminar and said that looks like the developers have a super track record. Prices seem to reflect upscale & sustainable nature of development. Prices still look cheap relative to comparable quality properties in other beach destinations.

Marie-Rose - 11-26-2004 at 02:35 PM

Phil S. or FlyFishing Pam

Got any new photos of how things are progressing??

wilderone - 11-29-2004 at 11:14 AM

"From website, the development looks very attractive. A friend went to a sales seminar and said that looks like the developers have a super track record. Prices seem to reflect upscale & sustainable nature of development. Prices still look cheap relative to comparable quality properties in other beach destinations."

You've bit and swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Loreto Bay

Phil S - 11-30-2004 at 05:23 AM

Marie Rose. Passed through your T.S. yesturday on the way home from our two week most enjoyable stay at Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach resort. Didn't know directions to your place. Is it sort of 'open house' when your there? Loreto Bay is having another "drawing day" this coming Thursday I'm told. The model home is progressing nicely. The underground utilities work is being completed, and lot leveling for 25 more homes is in progress. I was disappointed to see the Beach Club was "put off", and will check with our friends and see what "that was all about" and report back.

Loreto Bay

Phil S - 11-30-2004 at 06:29 AM

Capt. Mike. I've just reread all the L>B> posts. At one time you said that you were going to attend one of the presentations in Scottsdale, and report back your impressions. Did you ever get there?? Also you've mentioned "moving" to another project. Is that 'far out of town"? For three years. Is that a 'start to finish project? Can you say where it is yet? I'm sure JR & Wilderone will be interested in it!!!!!!! Any recent news on how the Johnsons are progressing on their Serenidad Hotel fiasco???? I'm back from Cabo now, so you scheduled for another trip down here?/

Marie-Rose - 11-30-2004 at 09:22 AM

Thanks for the update Phil!
Casa Loma is definetly "open house" for any nomads in the area while we are there!! The fifth wheel has limited space but the yard is huge and ideal for any RV's. We will be there Dec 18-Jan 14th and then again in March. :bounce:

hey Phil....

capt. mike - 11-30-2004 at 04:55 PM

i was in a bad accident wed before thx giving and just got out of the hospital so i didn't make it to mulege like i planned. i'll be in touch probably not before jan sometime. :barf:

Damn Dude !!

jrbaja - 11-30-2004 at 05:54 PM

Most sorry to hear that and I'm wishing you a speedy recovery!

Capt. Mike Accident

Phil S - 11-30-2004 at 07:39 PM

Capt. Mike. Sorry to hear about the accident. Did you total out the airplane? I hope not. Glad you were able to survive. Contact me when your able to start traveling south again. Keep the rabbits foot attached to your key chain.

I HOPE FOR YOU A SPEEDY RECOVERY

Bruce R Leech - 11-30-2004 at 07:55 PM

I HOPE FOR YOU A SPEEDY RECOVERY See you when you get here

naw....tweren't mi avion, pero mi moto

capt. mike - 12-1-2004 at 06:49 AM

esta "basura"!!

Hell, i walked away from my aerial mishap last dec. , and the plane came thru 97% intact.

An ambulance carted mi nalgas gordo away this time.....But like Ahnold says, "I'll be back."

And yes, it was the other guy's fault. :fire:

Loreto Bay

Phil S - 12-1-2004 at 07:08 AM

Rode my bicyclica by the L.B. project yesturday. Much activity, and "model home" is getting it's outside stucco finish at this writing. Several other homes in different states of construction, showing up. Employee of hotel where I had breakfast states hotel reservations for the upcoming "presentation" this Thursday has filled the rooms. Kind of cold right now (65 degrees in the mornings) same temps southern Calif. must be getting. Don't know where this group is coming from. Has been mostly Canadian, but some Californians & Arizona folks have also arrived via 'their chartered aircraft' in the past. Wind has been pretty bad past week I'm told. Sand blown into the street. Probably be swept up before the group arrives, I'm sure. Makes me want to catch a flight to Acapulco where yesturday it was 87 degrees, until this weather changes for the better. No sign of the owner of the projects beachfront home getting started yet!!!!!! Clear blue skies, and 'nippie' out right now. Plenty cold in Canada right now I bet. This will be a 'warming' event for those visitors.

Reeljob - 12-1-2004 at 09:55 AM

Gringo Gazette has an article (yeh, I know, take with grain of salt) but it relates to LB postponing Utilities etc.

Nippy?

Sallysouth - 12-1-2004 at 03:36 PM

No Phil, it was 41 degrees this morning, and when I got up at 7am,looked out the bedroom window, all the rooftops were covered with frost! This is in Capistrano beach where I can see the ocean and frost at the same time. I know 65 seems cold to you guys but just put a sweatshirt on and say"I love Baja!" :yes:

It's been about 9 years

jrbaja - 12-1-2004 at 04:05 PM

since I made snow balls out in front of our house here in Rosarito but it does happen.
29 degrees would expppplllllain our consumption of firewood. I've been afraid to look at a thermometer.
South Baja is sounding better by the chatter! :bounce:

wilderone - 12-1-2004 at 05:47 PM

Regarding the Gringo Gazette article, it's the most accurate appraisal of the project I've read. In the article, Butterfield states:

"'In the short term, we are relying on Fonatur's existing municipal water system including the San Juan aquifer for water and the CFE/Fonatur electrical system and grid for electricity. We centerly can't rely on the existing sewage system because there really isn't one. ... We have agreed with the FederalMinister of Tourism and Fonatur to construct a sewage system next year to meet our requirements.' This next year sewage system seems a bit late, since they have already started building the homes. Usually the grid is installed underground before building begins, but it seems this problem of infrastructure took the developers by surprise. Butterfield goes on to explain, 'In the long term we intend to generate power primarily from renewable resources (wind and solar primarily) that will exceed our consumption but we will still use the existing electrical grid. In terms of water, we will harvest shallow well ground water on a sustainable basis and augment that with desalinization as required to produce 100 percent of our potable water. Right now we are focusing on building the project so that our energy and water needs are minimized.' We walked through their entire project, noting the housing that has been started, but there is no sign that they have even broken ground on these big plans for a desal plant, or even wind and solar plants for electricity. An you can pardeon us for being skeptical about their promise to only harvest ground water that can be replaced, because that doesn't happen anywhere, even with the best of intentions. When these homeowners need water, and it hasn't rained enough this year, the company is going to suck moe water out of the ground and that water table is going to drop. And they have not taken steps to build that multimillion dollar desalinzation plant. ..."

The article goes on to state that Butterfield plans to do a year long environmental baseline study "so we really know what the current conditions are."

NOW they're going to do a study? You can't tell me these people know what they're dealing with. Or have lived up to their promises so far. Toldjaso.
The article is online, starting on page 20.

Now the question is

jrbaja - 12-1-2004 at 06:01 PM

How many more dupes are going to put their money into the destruction of an environment?
And how much environment will be destroyed in the process of bilking these people looking for a slice of paradise that is disappearing because of their ignorance.
The developers won't care on their way to the bank, that's for damn sure! :fire:

No question about it .

Bajalero - 12-1-2004 at 06:19 PM

In my opinion there's gonna be a lot of pi**ed off Canadians. Looks like they're trying to make it look like something by building a structure before any of the other nessecities are installed or procured. Lack of water, no sewer system installed and where's the electricity going to come from. I'll bet their plan is/was to finance the whole deal with deposits. If it doesn't fly the buyers will be S>O>L.. Don't throw away your portable showers just yet!

Finally!!!

Skeet/Loreto - 12-2-2004 at 08:47 AM

After the first Post on this Subject, there is finally some questions and answers about the "Water"!!!!
Water or Lack of Water stopped Dr. Inogd from finishing the famous "Doctor's Point"
Project 5 miles North of Loreto back in the 60's.
Water held up completion of the Golf course fro 10 years.

Water is now being Trucked to the new Homes North of Loreto.
It takes all Kinds~
\Skeet/Loreto

Latest L.B. offering right now.

Phil S - 12-2-2004 at 08:19 PM

Much lime on the L.B. developing areas. Obviously for the benefit of the 165 people who flew down to "inspect" the project. Should be an interesting weekend at the Camino Real Resort where they are staying.

Agua...

Anonymous - 12-4-2004 at 01:30 PM

I read the Gringo Gazette article and it was well written aside from some snide remarks that are characteristic of that rag. However the point about lack of infrastructure really scares me, and especially water.

We live just outside of town (west) and, along with our neighbors, have water trucked into our property because the city of Loreto does not have financial resources to put in water lines. We also generate our own electricity with solar and gas. As far as electricity generation via solar technology, that is easily do-able here given the number of solar hours we recieve, but the water issue is a whole different and depressing situation.

If 5,000 homes actually go in and they will be using the current Loreto water infrastructure as is, then this whole town will suffer a great deal. My family for one, won't let this happen and either will all our friends and neighbors (we've had many discussions about this). Loreto Bay will need to rectify this problem, and that of the handling their wastewater too, if their project is to have any viable future here.

I am very disappointed to find out that they are just now doing an EIS, now that one home is almost complete and about a half a dozen more are under construction and about 140 have been bought and paid for. When this project first came to our attention (at the Loreto Hotel association meeting first week of October 2003) we were given the impression that this had already been done.

Fly fishin' Pam

That project had so many unanswered questions

jrbaja - 12-4-2004 at 01:44 PM

from the get go that it is almost identical to Punta Banda. Different forms but same outcome! People get screwed for not doing their homework and paying attention.
Friends of mine who know Baja went to one of their first meetings down there wanting to buy.
They came home in total disbelief that these schuysters had taken it that far already and couldn't answer half their questions to boot!
One of the questions was about Ejidos. The sales people didn't know what an ejido was :no:

They can screw the buyers that don't pay attention all they want but it's not nice to mess with Mother Nature while they're doing it! :lol:

There are lots of things they don't know about

Anonymous - 12-4-2004 at 02:10 PM

One interesting mention in that GG article was about how the developers had pristine records in the US and Canada and great working relationships based on governments that work the way they're used to. Well the Mexican government works in mysterious ways that make complete sense to Mexicanos but defy logic to Norteamericanos y Canadienses. Don't get me wrong I really want the Loreto Bay Project to work as it will benefit us all, but their promises are based in the reality that they are experienced with, not the reality that is here. I came here with the similar ideals and have changed since learning the hard way, so I see myeslf reflected in them on a smaller scale. I forsaw the labor pool problems that they are encountering right off the bat but believed the drivel about the sustainable village. I've spoken to some working with the project. I was told that they will generate more electricity than they will use and the excess will be sold to the power company or donated to the town. When I asked what CFE and the government thinks about all that, they didn't understand where I was coming from. I think you understand, JR. While I won't feel sorry for folks that buy and without doing their required research, get the shaft, I will do everything in my power to prevent our town from making any sacrifices for them. We need to somehow come together on these important issues of the environment. AS for financial competition from their village, I also fear that- for example I as a business owner in town couldn't even consider setting up another shop/office in their overpriced village, but I will evolve and change in order to keep myself competitive. I also find myself easing tensions of my peers in business over the same concerns.

Fly fishin' Pam

Pam

jrbaja - 12-4-2004 at 06:27 PM

I'm not sure how long you've had your business there but haven't the number of clients increased every year?
The way it's going down here (everywhere in Baja) I don't think you will need 5000 poorly thought out homes to make your business successful! :light:

Even if you had a bad rep (which I know you don't!) the tourism numbers are multiplying so rapidly you would still do well.
At least that's what I see happening in most areas, I'm not in the fishin bidness in Loreto so I could be mistaken about that!

Can I get a band for my Hawaiin sling in Loreto?

Jr

BajaRob - 12-7-2004 at 04:45 AM

Was the snow photo you posted taken @ Laguna Hanson? Rob

Yes Rob

jrbaja - 12-7-2004 at 09:06 AM

That's the place although it was 3 or 4 years ago.

wilderone - 12-7-2004 at 10:16 AM

"One interesting mention in that GG article was about how the developers had pristine records in the US and Canada and great working relationships based on governments that work the way they're used to."

No. Wrong. Incorrect. R O N G. Butterfield and Grogan do NOT have a pristine record, as I have explained in the past. (But nobody seems to listen to me). Their Vancouver Bamberton project was scrapped entirely dut to political and financial difficulties. It was also touted as "sustainable" blah, blah, blah - and in fact, I believe the Loreto Bay website has some of the same hype they used to push Bamberton. Their Civano project in Tucson, after 10 years, is just now starting Phase II, their Town Center, as of 2003, was not yet a reality, and the neighborhood association was vocal in their doubts and dissention regarding promises, promises, promises. The Civano project had the backing of the City of Tucson, Fannie Mae and others - a far cry from the likes of FONATUR as a construction partner. Furthermore, the aggressive environmental goals of Civano had not been met as to their objectives relating to transit oriented development and density. It has taken intense owner and neighborhood involvement to get Civano where it is today - something that is not going to happen at Loreto Bay where there will be few permanent residents. I won't belabor this any longer here. The point is, you need to do your own investigation and discover the truth. What the Loreto Bay developers state are sugar-coated half-truths.

Wrong Wilderone

jrbaja - 12-7-2004 at 10:56 AM

("But nobody seems to listen to me"). There's a whole passle o people on this board besides the registered 1000 something members.
Just the majority of people out there are smart enough to keep quiet :lol:

But they're listening :cool:

Hola!

flyfishinPam - 12-7-2004 at 01:16 PM

Greetings all. I don't know the rep of the folks behind LB but I can only go on what I can read from here (the internet). Although I have lots of opinions, it really doesn't matter what I think as the project is going to go anyway. Lots of folks here think that we're better off with LB's plan than we would have been if FONATUR stuck to their original plan of high-rise hotels in that zona turistica and I agree with it.

JR- yes my business has seen constant growth so I can't complain but it is because I put so much into it and change when changes need to be made. In my business its necessary to be accepted into the local community and I have accomplished that. Yes you can buy a hawaiian sling in Loreto but currently you'llhae to use it outside the park, not my rules just the facts.

Thanks Pam

jrbaja - 12-7-2004 at 01:42 PM

Not the sling, just the tubing for it. The sporting goods in Loreto has slings for cheaper than in the u.s. but what I need is just the band replacements. Gracias.

Some interesting reading

jrbaja - 7-23-2005 at 09:34 AM

from a couple years back.

must have been in Baja.....

Sharksbaja - 7-23-2005 at 01:21 PM

Ya ta hay! I guess I wasn't doin' my homework either as I totally missed the whole thread. I wasn't playing hard enough. Thanks JR for bringing that up.
The project and it's designers certainly missed the boat when it came to the "regular hombre" in Loreto. Aside from the degradation of a pristine area, my worries remain stage center on the displacement of residents in the next ten years.

Here is a French study of water resources and evaluation as a sustainable resource in Baja:

French study

[Edited on 7-23-2005 by Sharksbaja]

vandenberg - 7-23-2005 at 07:35 PM

Should bring this whole subject back up,since it's of a lot of interest to all Loreto residents. I've a lot of friends that look at this venture as a kind of pyramid scheme. Get people's money to start the next part of the project. Any thoughts on that ???

rogerj1 - 7-23-2005 at 09:56 PM

They're doing a damn good job of getting people's money. Getting in early is at a discounted price. Those that get in early on a project that works out end up getting a good deal. Risky, but worth it if you do your homework.

friend of baja - 7-24-2005 at 08:35 PM

Jr wrote "How many more dupes are going to put their money into the destruction of an environment?
And how much environment will be destroyed in the process of bilking these people looking for a slice of paradise that is disappearing because of their ignorance.
The developers won't care on their way to the bank, that's for damn sure!"

**********************************************
son. You have characteristically displayed all 3 in this one post.

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by BajaNomad]

bajalou - 7-24-2005 at 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Should bring this whole subject back up,since it's of a lot of interest to all Loreto residents. I've a lot of friends that look at this venture as a kind of pyramid scheme. Get people's money to start the next part of the project. Any thoughts on that ???

Actually that's the way every development I've seen anywhere be it US or Mexico works. The early sales provide cash for more development.

:biggrin:

Friend of Baja hahahahahahaha

jrbaja - 7-24-2005 at 09:53 PM

This was a thread from a long time ago. Obviously you missed it. I'm pretty much done with discussing this project as I got bored with it a while back.
You on the other hand, being a "friend of Baja" should by all means fill everyone in on what's really going on with your vast knowledge. :lol:

Hard facts??

tehag - 7-25-2005 at 11:04 AM

Dear Loreto Bay, Darlene Tate, Friend of Baja, et al:

While I agree that most of the criticism of the Villages project that I?ve read on this forum lately is ill informed and vague, I too have some uneasiness about it all. You could help me, and probably some others who read it, get more comfortable if you would publish here some hard facts. I don?t mean more press-release snippets or sales-brochure hype. I mean HARD facts.

A short wish list for factual reassurance might include:

Location of desal plant.
Source of power for same.
Salt disposal and heat dissipation scheme.
Ground-breaking DATE for same.
Type of eco-friendly power generation. Wind, solar, geo.
Location of power plant, windmill farm, solar array, etc.
Cost comparison with existing.
Ground breaking DATE for same.
Traffic impact figures for the Loreto/Nopol? corridor and mitigation plans.

What I think is most troubling is the absence in any definitive How, When, Where in what otherwise sound like right-thinking development ideas. I think that if you can address your more thoughtful critics head on with answers to these types of questions they will feel better about what is taking place. As far as the few who just vent spleen about Caboizing the peninsula, well, what can I say.

Phil C - 7-25-2005 at 03:31 PM

I was in the San Diego airport in june, on my way to Loreto and overheard a group of people, in the bar of course, on their way to a "sales meeting" at Loreto bay. One comment heard.."we've sold 160 million and only built one house" followed by a round of laughter..............

Mike Supino - 7-25-2005 at 05:52 PM

Phil C

I think that you may have summed it up in a proverbial nutshell

But with brilliant minds like this

jrbaja - 7-25-2005 at 06:04 PM

""**********************************************
son. You have characteristically displayed all 3 in this one post.",

working on their team, most will be intelligent enough to see through this scam , No? :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by BajaNomad]

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