BajaNomad - Graham Mackintosh: 'Marooned' on Isla Angel de la Guarda: 6-06 PHOTOS POSTED!

Graham Mackintosh: 'Marooned' on Isla Angel de la Guarda: 6-06 PHOTOS POSTED!

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trblmkr - 2-3-2006 at 04:01 PM

It's their life. Wonder what they would think about writing a book?

Pompano,

Now that sounds like a book worth reading!

Ode to David...

Mexray - 2-4-2006 at 12:59 AM

Dave's a young man near San Diego

Thoughts of Baja help's his day go.

With many trips there over the years

To share with friends and Baja peers

While eating a torta and lots of mayo.

[Edited on 2-4-2006 by Mexray]

capt. mike - 2-4-2006 at 05:53 AM

why is it whenever yur in a calif restaurant and order a burger they always put mayo on it?
i HATE mayo on burgers :fire:

, it's un American man!! mustard and maybe a little ketchup......no, not catsup! what the hell is catsup anyway? what people from John Kerry land call ketchup?!

anyway, i have to ALWAYS tell them when i order "NO MAYO"!

order a burger anywhere else but calif and it never comes with mayo unless you are from calif and ask for it.

well, thx for listening to this rant.
Andy Rooney........some where in baja. :lol:

TMW - 2-4-2006 at 09:51 AM

capt. mike I'm with you. I want mustard on a hamburger and I'll keep the mayo for my egg sandwich. Sonic does have a mustard burger #2 I think.

JZ - 2-5-2006 at 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
why is it whenever yur in a calif restaurant and order a burger they always put mayo on it?

order a burger anywhere else but calif and it never comes with mayo unless you are from calif and ask for it.

Not quite true Mike. Try going to the mid-west. If it doesn't have mayo on it they ain't eatting it... :lol:

MX is nearly the same, Mexicans love their mayo.

capt. mike - 2-5-2006 at 09:34 AM

Huh?? what part of midwest? i grew up in the mid mid-west.....KS. to be semi specific and they never put mayo on em before serving.

but, yeah....the mid west includes a lot of geography!

i have discovered a way to "fix" mayo tho - mix in some paprika and grated horseradish....ummmm, white hot sauce. :light:

JZ - 2-5-2006 at 10:03 AM

Ohio for sure. KS's not the mid-west is it.

JZ - 2-5-2006 at 10:15 AM

Ok, I guess Kanasas "could" be considered part of the mid-west. From Wikipedia: "Though definitions vary, any definition of the Midwest would include the Northwest Ordinance "Old Northwest" states and often includes many states that were part of the Louisiana Purchase."

Ohio is part of the "Old Northwest" states and Kanasas is part of the Louisiana Purchase. I always thought of the mid-west as just the "Old Northwest" states (Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc); and put Kanasas in the west.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States.

"The term "Middle West" originated in the 19th century, followed by "Midwest" and "Heartland", and referred to generally the same areas and states in the region. The heart of the Midwest is bounded by the Great Lakes and the Ohio and Mississippi River Valleys, the "Old Northwest" (or the "West"), referring to the states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin, which comprised the original Northwest Territory. This area is now called the East North Central States by the United States Census Bureau. The Northwest Territory was created out of the ceded English (formerly French and Native American) frontier lands under the Northwest Ordinance by the Continental Congress just before the U.S. Constitution was ratified. The Northwest Ordinance prohibited slavery and religious discrimination, and promoted public schools and private property. As Revolutionary War soldiers from the original colonies were awarded lands in Ohio and migrated there and to other Midwestern states with other pioneers, including many immigrants from central and northern Europe, the area became the first thoroughly "American" region. The Midwest region today refers not only to states created from the Northwest Ordinance, but also may include states between the Appalachian Mountains to the Rocky Mountains and north of the Ohio River."

[Edited on 2-5-2006 by JZ]

Jeez

Baja Bernie - 2-5-2006 at 10:09 PM

Can you imagine this---mayo hijacking a wonderful informational post by David K.
Come on guys lets get back on message here.

Pompano--The story about real life and the fishermen should always take president over story's of Baja by gringo's or anyone else. Fifty years of living close to the earth and the sea makes for a bunch of wrinkles and some really sound knowledge of life. Wish I could meet them.
Thanks

Woops! I be looking at the views and won't be posting here again--if only in the memory of JR

[Edited on 2-6-2006 by Baja Bernie]

capt. mike - 2-6-2006 at 06:35 AM

very interesting info JZ. whoda thunk it?

Pompano - 2-6-2006 at 07:38 AM

Bernie...those panga brothers are/were legends in their own right. Talk about basic tough! I will try to get you some photos and a history of them for your Baja book interest. But there are many just like them scattered around the Cortez. They have always been there...families of fisherfolk, just melting into the scenery...unnoticed and unheralded.

Pompano

Baja Bernie - 2-6-2006 at 07:57 AM

They are becoming fewer and fewer and as you have just done--they need to be saluted for their survival instincts among other things.

Thank you for the offer and I look forward to what you gather.

David K - 2-6-2006 at 03:02 PM

Here is a vagabundo sail boat beyond this pilot whale photo, from 40 years ago...

BOLABOUND - 2-6-2006 at 03:18 PM

Thats an amazing pic David , you dont see that everyday,

You always amaze me with your pics my friend, Thanks for sharing your

fever with us . I love it!

David K - 2-6-2006 at 03:22 PM

My pleasure!

That is from my Choral Pepper collection http://choralpepper.com for more classic Baja photos from the 1960's...

David K - 2-6-2006 at 06:11 PM

Bud posted this in Bernie's thread 'A Simple Question':

>>> Well, I'm half way through the desert place book right now.
I've been to the area he's in obove LA bay in a boat. And on most of the land. So, it's been very interesting to me. As far as I'm concerned it good to hear what his thoughts were during the process of going down the coast. I know some seem to not like his style of writing and all I have to say about that is....to each his own. So far he's held my interest pretty well. Still have a long way to though.

And Braulio, I got that suitcase book you suggested. As soon as I'm done with Grahams books I'll dig into that one. Looks interesting.....It's big too!

Bud <<<

I responded with this:

>>> I can't imagine anyone who loves Baja, (the land, people ,sea,) would not enjoy Graham's books... They are great armchair adventure works for those times we Nomads are not on our own adventure in Baja!

It was nearly a quarter centuary ago when he did the great walk around Baja... and he's still energized to keep us entertained! <<<

Bernie suggested I post it in this thread about Graham, as well...

Looking forward to more...

Mexray - 2-6-2006 at 06:27 PM

...'Tele-Grahams' when they hit the mainland. Adventure, in every sense of the word is fun to read about!

Bud - 2-7-2006 at 09:23 PM

Great pic's David. We used to go down every year back when the pavement ended at 180 K. Spend a week or more.
In San Quintin. It was a very small villiage back then. Crossed over to San Filipi a few times also. There was nothing there then except a small store and the beach. That was in the early "50"s.

I'm still on Grahams book. It's pretty interesting so far. Anyways, thanks for the pic's.

Bud

[Edited on 2-8-2006 by Bud]

New Photo showing Graham with airdrop

David K - 2-8-2006 at 08:31 PM

Bonni just sent me a note and photo of Graham... still 'self-marooned' on Isla Angel de la Guarda. Email of Feb. 8, 2006:

Mike Essary sent some photos of Graham's camp. It shows Graham on the beach holding Bonni's letter that was air dropped and also the mini-keg of Heiniken that he received. The panga in camp is the wrecked one he wrote about.

Photo by Mike Essary

Letter Report from Graham 2-6-06

David K - 2-11-2006 at 08:41 AM

Monday February 6, 2006

Forgive me if I get silly or sentimental, but as I write this by moonlight I?m looking up at a lovely 1.3 gallons of Heineken beer, which was delivered by Mike Essary via parachute about 3:30 this afternoon. I didn?t even have to kayak out to get it; some wild wind and waves drove it quickly to shore. All it took was a half-mile hike around the bay. And suddenly I have a care package of beer and mucho chocolate. I drank my last can of beer about ten days ago?so I?m enjoying this evening.

Ironically, I have almost as much beer as water! In fact, I?ve spent most of the last 3 days making drinking water by distilling seawater?a slow and tedious process providing about a cup an hour and necessitating constant tending and supervision of the still. Luckily, there is an abundance of driftwood for fuel.

The weather has generally been warmer that I expected. Over the last week the temperature has dropped only to about the mid-fifties at night and climbed to around 80? in the day. If I?m not hiking or kayaking, I generally seek the shade of a large cardon cactus on the slope above my campsite. If the wind isn?t too strong, I?ll rig up a shade with a tarp.

January was delightful: not a mosquito or a no-see-um, no scorpions, hardly even a fly or an ant. I?ve tended to intersperse an active day hiking or kayaking with a ?rest? day birdwatching or turning over rocks, or just reading and meditating.

I?ve hiked across the island to beachcomb on the east coast, and I?ve enjoyed hiking the ridges of the island divide, which offers spectacular views of both coasts.

Any calm day is an invitation to kayak up and down the coast. Several times I?ve found myself surrounded by schools of yellowtail?usually when I haven?t my fishing pole with me. Sea lions are plentiful, and I?ve seen several turtles and fin back whales. Some of the rock formations in the cliffs are astoundingly beautiful, and several times I?ve gone ashore to photograph an interesting vein or unusual wildflower.

Here in camp, I?ve become part of the community for the local gulls and oyster catchers?if I?m quiet, the latter birds will waddle along the shore just a few yards away, prodding beneath the rocks with their long orange-red beaks.

What I enjoy about camping in such a place is the beauty and the peace that so readily descends if one will be still and let it. I find my mind drifting to thoughts of family and friends and all the blessings they have given me. I have never felt more spiritual and connected than when I?m at peace on a Baja beach.

And it comes as a shock when I then turn on my radio at night to catch up on the news, and to listen to all the anger and negativity expressed on the political talk shows north of the border. Sad!

Maybe I?m getting older and a little less bolder, maybe I?m getting lazy, but I sure enjoy the great sense of discovery one can have in a place like Isla de la Guarda. Armed only with binoculars and a hand lens, and a few field guides, I could be very content for quite a while. Some of the best days I?ve had have been right here on ?my? beach marveling at all there is to see beneath the rocks.

Until Mike?s flyover, I?d only spoken to one person in the month since I came out here, and that was Gary from British Columbia, who kayaked out for a few days. There is no way I?d kayak all that way?I?ve rarely gone more than one half mile from shore. I spent the night at his campfire before he paddled back, and he was clearly anxious about the journey. He was well gone by first light. Sharing his anxiety, I climbed a nearby peak and willed the wind to stay down for his crossing. By the time he would have been close to Smith Island, we managed to exchange a few words by radio; I was jubilant to know he was safe. What a courageous young man.

Yes, I?m getting older and a little less ambitious. I?m happy to find a place of peace? to enjoy the privilege of this island, to have so much of it for myself, if for just a little while.

As I look up I can see Sirius , and Orion, and half a moon, and there, manna from heaven, a very large can of Heineken. Maybe I can allow myself just one more little beaker.

And then I get to thinking back through the years, back to my ?moment? of madness, to my walk around the coast of Baja, back to all the kindness and hospitality, to friendships made by campfire and casa. Simple memories from over 20 years ago, as vivid as yesterday.

Many of these fleeting friends have passed on, but they?ll live forever in my heart. What luck and joy I?ve found in this land. It?s easy to believe that, out here, I have my own personal Guardian Angel.

Thank you,

Graham

[Edited on 2-11-2006 by David K]

Baja Bernie - 2-11-2006 at 09:27 AM

Extremely (no simply) well said.

Thanks

[Edited on 2-11-2006 by Baja Bernie]

eetdrt88 - 2-11-2006 at 10:13 AM

Graham certainly has a way with words,I think he's describing the way alot of us feel on some of those deserted baja beaches

He's into the Baja Feeling...

Pompano - 2-11-2006 at 10:29 AM

his fellow island dweller.....kindred spirit of many a solitary panga fisherman.

Bud - 2-11-2006 at 11:55 AM

I've done the entire west side of that island in my puny 12' Valco. Including both ends. Is that Rafugio he's staying at? That place is very nice. Funny he should mention his experiences 20 years ago while I'm reading about them. Good luck to him. I envy him today.

Bud

Thanks David for posting Grahams updates

Keri - 2-11-2006 at 01:41 PM

Thanks Graham for letting us in on your wonderful Baja Feelings. You paint a pretty picture, :yes:

His campo

Hook - 2-11-2006 at 02:14 PM

has been reported to be about the middle of the island on the west coast. An area called Humbug Bay.

ursidae69 - 2-11-2006 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88
Graham certainly has a way with words,I think he's describing the way alot of us feel on some of those deserted baja beaches

I agree, I wish I could maroon myself for longer periods of time. Maybe someday...

capt. mike - 2-12-2006 at 07:04 AM

10 days without a beer?? what madness! is there no civility on that island?

could never do that, the man must be a shaman. :lol:

Bob and Susan - 2-12-2006 at 07:22 AM

That "RETRIEVER" can sure swim :lol:

bajaandy - 2-12-2006 at 08:37 AM

Thanks for posting the update DK. I don't care who's adventure it is, I just love to read about ANY adventures in Baja.

Oso - 2-12-2006 at 10:49 AM

Aha! That's what it took. Lunch is on, Graham. This boy weighed 97 #, measured 9',1". Taken at Turkey Creek, near Burgaw, NC.

[Edited on 2-12-2006 by Oso]

[Edited on 2-12-2006 by Oso]

Tucker - 2-12-2006 at 12:19 PM

Oso, I hope the guy didn't get bitten. Rule of thumb : after you kill it, take it's head off immediately. That one looks like it's still contracting. Twentyfive years of working in the woods I never saw one half that large.

Graham Photos

David K - 2-12-2006 at 09:46 PM

Here's a couple of better photos of Graham on the island...

The first picture is taken by Mike Essary...

[Edited on 2-14-2006 by David K]

David K - 2-12-2006 at 09:47 PM

and this picture by Lennart Waje, from Sweden...

I had the photo credits reversed prviously... Thanks to Bonni for reading Nomad and letting me know it was different than the email credit that said the first photo was from Lennart.

[Edited on 2-14-2006 by David K]

Update from Graham... Moved to new location!

David K - 3-9-2006 at 07:16 PM

Graham's Update:

Emailed from Bonni on March 9, 2006 :
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, February 9 was the day my cozy month-long routine of exploring, beachcombing, and looking at life through various lenses came to a sudden end.

I was climbing north into the mountains when I noticed two pangas racing purposefully towards my campsite in Humbug Bay. I dashed the two miles back and found myself dripping sweat in the presence of about seven rather rough-looking pangueros. A radio was putting forth lively Mexican music and the air was full of the sweet smells of marijuana and carne asada.

With the whole of Guardian Angel Island to chose from they had elected to set up their camp right beside my tent and tarp-covered possessions. One of them held what looked like a flame thrower. There was a sudden loud whoosh and a bush beside their "kitchen" burst into flames. The conscious ones laughed and coughed through smoke irritated throats. I must have looked as dubious and dumbfounded as I felt.

They explained that they were from mainland Mexico, and I'd have their company for four days "mas o menos." They were night diving for lobsters, clams, sea cucumbers and such.

They actually turned out to be good hospitable companions. I tried going with the flow but witnessing my clean, well-ordered campsite degenerating into a typical temporary fishcamp, and finding myself totally out of sync with neighbors working all night and then sleeping and smoking all day, I knew the time had come to move on. The need to move became urgent when two more pangas pulled in and the smells got even sweeter.

One of the pangueros agreed to take me to the beautiful sheltered bay of Este Ton, about 9 miles south. The kindly fishermen gave me 5 gallons of water and promised to drop off any extra they had on their way back to the mainland. Even so, as I said my goodbyes I had mixed feelings about leaving my base for the previous month.

Within forty minutes I was surveying the splendid anchorage of Este Ton, probably the finest on the west coast of Isla Angel de la Guarda. Ringed by high, colorful mountains it was seemingly protected from every direction except south.

Before leaving me there alone, one of the fishermen showed me where he had happened upon a sleeping feral cat which viciously attacked him when it woke. He had to fend it off with an oar. "It was black and hairy with strange round eyes," he said.

It was too windy to put up my tent. In spite of the gusting northwest wind sounding like a thousand flamethrowers, I tried kayaking inside the bay and found the paddle nearly ripped from my hands as I struggled to keep from being blown out into an increasingly wild and dangerous sea. Even on the beach, the wind threatened to lift and roll the kayak. I was seeing Este Ton at its worst. The protection it offered was relative.

Among the items I'd left stacked on the beach was a large foam pad bungeed to one of my heavier boxes. A pair of ravens had found that in my absence and nearly pecked it apart. With some difficulty I finally made my campsite in the mouth of a little canyon.

That night the wind shifted and came blasting from the northeast down the canyon threatening to rip my tent to shreds. I didn't sleep too well and had plenty of time to wonder about the smartness of my move. At least it was warm. The temperature never dropped below the mid-sixties.

Next morning with the wind moderating, and better able to appreciate the stunning beauty all around, I set off for an exploratory hike. Before I had gone fifty yards I slid to an urgent stop, my leading foot was inches from a five-foot-long pinkish rattlesnake. As it was so close to my camp I had no choice, I had to kill it. A single rock throw smashed its neck immediately behind its head.

After that I walked very slowly, my darting eyes checking behind every rock and under every bush. Kayaking seemed a better way to explore. But such was my mood even that seemed threatening -- beneath the steep cliffs the water was agitated and dark, and hidden rocks and reefs abounded.

No point lamenting the move; no way back; I busied myself making the most of it. I cleaned up the beach and started to collect driftwood, rope, pieces of fishing net, and other useful stuff. Needing shade, I cut down some agave stalks and began making a sturdy framework for a little structure that I could cover with the netting.

Wrapped in my project, soon the sun was shining, the wind was gentle, and Este Ton began to feel more like home. Sea lions, dolphins, and whales were never far away. With every hike into the steep hills, and every kayak under the cliffs, and every fun foray to check what the beaches had to offer, I felt more and more relaxed.

My camp was always "raven-proofed" when I left, but even so, they were adept at finding something to vandalize. One day, their powerful bills poked their way through my solar shower bag, another day they roughed up my solar battery chargers. Anything left out was likely to be "attacked."

Across the bay a pair of nesting ospreys conducted a constant battle with two and sometimes three ravens; more than once when I was shouting and gesticulating at our black tormentors the ospreys flew over to launch a joint attack.

I had many new neighbors. There were several giant chuckwallas on the slope above my tent. A belted kingfisher was a regular visitor to my side of the bay - the first I'd ever seen. Having studied his antics through my binoculars and gotten to "know" him, I looked up one morning when I heard his cries of distress and was saddened to see the poor kingfisher being chased by a hawk. The hawk dived at it continually. The kingfisher stayed over the water and dropped into the sea just as the hawk lunged with its talons. The splash seemed to confuse and deter the predator.

For over ten minutes I looked out helpless at the drama; the kingfisher seemed to be weakening; it seemed only a matter of time. but amazingly it was the hawk that tired first and broke away to land on the rocks. The gallant kingfisher merited his escape. I couldn't help but cheer.

I had seen cat tracks and scat all over the island, but so far I hadn't seen or heard one. At Este Ton , I came across three of them.all dead. And these hairy beasts were not cute kitties. Grotesque in death, with ugly protruding fangs, they looked like little werewolves. I wondered what had killed them.

Graham Mackintosh

Bahia de los Angeles

BOLABOUND - 3-9-2006 at 07:28 PM

Thanks David for the update.

Fatboy - 3-9-2006 at 07:39 PM

Nice to hear more about the 'adventure'. THANKS!

Bud - 3-9-2006 at 07:53 PM

Thanks David. I wonder if this big storm coming up this weekend is going to get down that far?

Bud

[Edited on 3-10-2006 by Bud]

I've just been sent a picture of Graham's camp...

Mexray - 3-9-2006 at 08:40 PM

killing rattlesnakes again

gringorio - 3-10-2006 at 09:19 AM

"Next morning with the wind moderating, and better able to appreciate the stunning beauty all around, I set off for an exploratory hike. Before I had gone fifty yards I slid to an urgent stop, my leading foot was inches from a five-foot-long pinkish rattlesnake. As it was so close to my camp I had no choice, I had to kill it. A single rock throw smashed its neck immediately behind its head." - G.M.

This is just plain wrong. How can Graham have such little respect for wildlife? He claims to have had no choice, but he had plenty of choices that would not have involved killing the rattlesnake. The first was to leave the rattlesnake alone. The second was to use a long stick and move it well away from his camp. He has a better chance of being stung by a scorpion than to be bitten by a rattlesnake. His paranoid attitude toward rattlesnakes has been apparent in all his writings. I would think that someone with so much experience in the desert would have a better understanding and *respect* for desert animals.

From the description, the rattlesnake sounds like it was a Crotalus ruber, a Red Diamond Rattlesnake. Isla Angel de la Guarda is part of the Islas del Golfo de California Biosphere Reserve, an ecologically unique and important group of islands. Populations of animals on islands are more susceptible to extinction for many reasons: Limited resources, competition for resources, changing abundance of prey populations, and of course, stochastic events like people killing every snake they see.

It seems to me that, while what Graham is doing is very interesting, in the long run his attitude is having a negative effect on the island and its animals.

gringorio

ursidae69 - 3-10-2006 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gringorio

This is just plain wrong. How can Graham have such little respect for wildlife? He claims to have had no choice, but he had plenty of choices that would not have involved killing the rattlesnake. The first was to leave the rattlesnake alone. The second was to use a long stick and move it well away from his camp. He has a better chance of being stung by a scorpion than to be bitten by a rattlesnake. His paranoid attitude toward rattlesnakes has been apparent in all his writings. I would think that someone with so much experience in the desert would have a better understanding and *respect* for desert animals.

From the description, the rattlesnake sounds like it was a Crotalus ruber, a Red Diamond Rattlesnake. Isla Angel de la Guarda is part of the Islas del Golfo de California Biosphere Reserve, an ecologically unique and important group of islands. Populations of animals on islands are more susceptible to extinction for many reasons: Limited resources, competition for resources, changing abundance of prey populations, and of course, stochastic events like people killing every snake they see.

It seems to me that, while what Graham is doing is very interesting, in the long run his attitude is having a negative effect on the island and its animals.

gringorio

Have to agree with Gringorio here. It illegal to kill the wildlife on the islands according to the reserve's own rules, he is likey violating his permit, if he obtained one like he is supposed to.

Bajalero - 3-10-2006 at 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gringorio
"Next morning with the wind moderating, and better able to appreciate the stunning beauty all around, I set off for an exploratory hike. Before I had gone fifty yards I slid to an urgent stop, my leading foot was inches from a five-foot-long pinkish rattlesnake. As it was so close to my camp I had no choice, I had to kill it. A single rock throw smashed its neck immediately behind its head." - G.M.

This is just plain wrong. How can Graham have such little respect for wildlife? He claims to have had no choice, but he had plenty of choices that would not have involved killing the rattlesnake. The first was to leave the rattlesnake alone. The second was to use a long stick and move it well away from his camp. He has a better chance of being stung by a scorpion than to be bitten by a rattlesnake. His paranoid attitude toward rattlesnakes has been apparent in all his writings. I would think that someone with so much experience in the desert would have a better understanding and *respect* for desert animals.

From the description, the rattlesnake sounds like it was a Crotalus ruber, a Red Diamond Rattlesnake. Isla Angel de la Guarda is part of the Islas del Golfo de California Biosphere Reserve, an ecologically unique and important group of islands. Populations of animals on islands are more susceptible to extinction for many reasons: Limited resources, competition for resources, changing abundance of prey populations, and of course, stochastic events like people killing every snake they see.

It seems to me that, while what Graham is doing is very interesting, in the long run his attitude is having a negative effect on the island and its animals.

gringorio

I agree 100% Gringorio - it is absolutely wrong and propagates further destruction and ignorance .

What a freakin harebrained thing to do .

Murdering a snake to make a buck with another two bit story is what it comes down to imo. He's got nothing better to do than wander around a rock in the middle of the SOC for a month and he couldn't find the time to relocate the snake?

That's pretty lame - but I'm sure one of the self righteous baja aficionados will spew more in defense of his apparently senseless actions.

Hell, someone hurry up and get the GPS waypoint linked so all the tourist can find their way to where the deed was done.

The way it's going though , in 10 more years the whole of baja will look like Rosarito and all the attitudes to go with it will already be in place.

Lero

----and I am sure that all you folks-------

Barry A. - 3-10-2006 at 12:52 PM

-------that have passed judgement on Graham's actions routinely let termites and blackwidows run around your house---------?

We all have different perspectives----it is called "tolerance" when we recognize that.

Barry

burro bob - 3-10-2006 at 01:17 PM

Barry A.
Graham is not at home he is on an ecological protected island.
The red diamond rattler is one of the least agressive snakes I have ever come across. I came across one once while hiking at the upper end of canyon cajon. He was sunning himself on a rock I needed to use to bypass a waterfall. I used my hiking stick to toss him about 10 feet down slope. Upon landing he coiled up and rattled for about 3 seconds, then he streatched out and went back to sunning himself.
Yes, I have also killed a red diamond that was in my yard at El Dorado. Relocating him would only have moved him to someone else's yard.
It's not so much that he killed a snake but where he did it.
burro bob

Burro Bob-----

Barry A. - 3-10-2006 at 01:53 PM

I would not have killed the snake, either, but I know that Graham is terrified of rattle snakes. Does this excuse it?? NO. but I believe that we should at least understand where Graham is coming from, and not be so quick to judge him.

By the way, (and most don't know this) snakes bruise very easily, and "throwing" a snake almost always does mortal damage to any snake, the way I understand it.

I personally have been "hit" twice by rattlers, both times on my boot, so was not damaged. But it is rather unsettleing to be struck by a rattler, and the self defense urge comes into play instantly. In my case, neither of the snakes were killed, but I came very, very close. Both times were in knee high grass, and I never saw the snakes until it was too late.

Your point about the "wildlife preserve" is well taken, and the most disturbing about Graham's actions, but I still don't think that we have to "attack" Graham for his instinctual reactions. He does need to reconsider his "fears", and get a handle on them, I agree. And he does have to take seriously where he is-----and the restrictions on human impact.

Actually, I am surprised that he even mentioned the snake episode. He must have known the uproar it would cause.

i'll have more respect...

eetdrt88 - 3-10-2006 at 02:43 PM

for some of these peoples opinions when they go live on a deserted island for months at a time with very little supplies...then when they send in a report about encountering a rattlesnake close to camp and just letting it be or relocating I will gladly applaud them... :!:

Skipjack Joe - 3-10-2006 at 03:04 PM

One of the disturbing aspects of this is that it was Graham that did this. It wasn't some city dwelling tourist that seldom leaves a paved sidewalk and comes across unexpectedly upon this creature. This comes from a man lauded for his treks across the wild landscape of the baja desert. A man in tune with all aspects of the wilderness. A man who has built a reputation of understanding and appreciating all of baja's primitive aspects. So he comes across one of it's 'dangerous' inhabitants and bangs it over the head. Strange.

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 03:39 PM

Rattlers are a spooky business and you never how you will react at the moment of meeting one suddenly or having some living in close contact.

I grew up near White Butte, ND which has an unusual concentration of prairie rattlesnakes.. (Crotalus viridis). There are so many that the area was demoted from the list of state parks a few years back. Wouldn't do to have the tourists from Hoboken bitten.

People like to entertain the thought of climbing White Butte, because it is the highest point in North Dakota..at a whopping 3506 ft!!....but most lose interest when told about the heavy snake populations there. Even today few locals climb the butte because of a high probability of encountering a few rattlers..and we don't like to kill them unless necessary so we don't aggravate or intrude on them. Having said that, I don't think I would like to share a small space with something that will make me sick as a dog..or worse. Snakes don't hunt humans, naturally, but they do hunt in human areas because of the mice that are attracted to human areas...camps or houses, it is all the same to a mouse..and to the rattler. I suspect bird eggs and small chicks on the island in question are also on the snake's menu. Perhaps Graham is near the rattler's hunt routes ...or he is attracting some vermin. Clean that place up, Graham! A clean camp is a healthy camp..and hopefully, snake-free.

I have had to kill exactly three rattlers in Baja Sur over the last 30-odd years...but have encountered dozens. All three killed posed a human death risk and the rattlers had to go. One I found inside the house in the food pantry...poised to strike. A Siamese cat had it cornered. Killed it with the broom handle...rather unglamorous, but neither I nor the snake cared what I used. The cat was okay with it, too. Two others crawled back into our desert camps...each coming back twice after being taken some distance away...each once too often. Don't kid yourself, you will batter that crawling, fanged guy to a pulp if he slithers over your thigh in the bedroll.

Don't know what circumstances prompted Graham to kill that island rattler, but I suspect he was afraid for his life. Right or wrong, he is alive and the rattler is dead. Survival of the one who holds the rock. Blame evolution and the opposing thumb.

KurtG - 3-10-2006 at 04:05 PM

If you read Graham's earlier books it is clear that he dines on the rattlers that he has killed. Personally I don't see a lot of difference between killing and eating a fish or killing and eating a snake. I have done both and while I prefer fish the rattler wasn't bad!

bajalera - 3-10-2006 at 04:08 PM

Pompano, that broomstick killing was a good story. Why don't you get yourself marooned somewhere & write a book about it?

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 04:10 PM

I agree KurtG...rattler as a entree ain't that bad. Firm white meat...wonder how much it would affect my cholestrol level? Plus you have an attractive belt or hat band, right Two Dogs?

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 04:11 PM

bajalera....I know some islands of mystery, but I would need a secretary?....my handwriting is horrible.

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 04:16 PM

I think I was on this island once upon a time.......

An American, an Australian and an Irishman were stranded on an island for several days. One day a bottle washed ashore and when they picked it up, a genie rushed out.

Oh masters, he said. For releasing me from this bottle you will each have one wish.

The American said: I wish to be surrounded by a bevy of beautiful girls in Waikiki beach. Whoosh, the American was gone to Hawaii.

The Australian said: I wish to be in a casino in the Australian Gold Coast. Whoosh, and off he went.

The Irishman could not decide what he wanted. After a long time, he said: Gee, it's very lonely here on this island. I wish my friends were back here!

Skipjack Joe - 3-10-2006 at 05:22 PM

I once ate a rattlesnake roadkill in New Mexico, not too far from Santa Fe. I'm ashamed to admit that I was worried at the time that somehow some of the venom would enter my system and make me real sick.

Isn't that silly? :lol:

BTW, it tasted like frog legs (which tasted like chicken).

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Skipjack Joe]

Splat

Baja Bernie - 3-10-2006 at 06:13 PM

Well, I was about to launch into my encounter with...........but that is another story. I totally agree with Pompano and believe that Graham did what he felt was necessary for his own safety.

I rather doubt that he will come off the island with a new hat band.

Snake bias

Sharksbaja - 3-10-2006 at 06:51 PM

Having been bitten and on the brink of death I can assure you, you don't want a similar scenario far from help. Growing up in an area full of Western Diamondbacks I was never worried too much and just stayed clear. That all changed though and after my near-fatal encounter I had serious after effects, mainly psycological. I would have spells of paranoia for years whereas common scratch from a twig would bring on horrible thoughts and convince me that I got bitten again. You see, the bite felt just like that, a scratch.
I felt for many years that the only good rattlesnake was a dead one.
So you see, I was tramatized early on.
Later on while living on Catalina I was regularily summonded to dispose of rattlesnakes which had found their way into the dorms or cafeteria. AS per my boss' order I dispatched of them in a promt and humane way.
Nowdays though I feel different and that applies to many living things. I don't hunt anymore and I don't kill snakes anymore. I've come to realize their importance and place on this planet. This does not apply in all cases but I feel there is a reason to NOT harm or kill animals, I won't.

AS far as Graham goes, I understand the fear of rattlesnakes completely, but with so many options I feel he used poor judgement. Living in remote places as such requires the ackknowledgement of the snakes habitat and how to coexist.
Personally, I'd fear the smugglers more than that of the snakes. You can't just cut off their heads and cook em up.......say, why did he not eat the thing. Heck, I eat every fish I kill. Unless of course I am offering it up as trade for a big one. :lol:

Oso - 3-10-2006 at 07:23 PM

He didn't say he didn't eat it. From his previous accounts, I'd bet he did. When in the desert away from people, I try to leave them alone. But, I have killed a couple. The last one was a small sidewinder in my neighbor's yard. The head of the household wasn't home, the lady was freaking out, scared for her kids and I didn't have a convenient means of "transporting" it elsewhere. Before that was many years ago at a rest stop on I-8 near Gila Bend. I got it starting back into its burrow about 10 feet from the picnic tables. Kids, barefoot kids, are around that place all the time. Yes they are noble creatures (How many deadly creatures warn you to back off?) and important to their ecologies- rodent control etc. But, there is a difference between sensitivity and stupidity. Lighten up on Graham. He had his reasons.

BTW, if anyone has ever read my "Huivulai" story, they know I definitely prefer to leave them as masters of their domain. It's only when our prolonged proximity occurs that Darwinism prevails.

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Oso]

ursidae69 - 3-10-2006 at 07:28 PM

One last comment on the rattlesnake kill. The real issue here is the fact that these islands, and the wildlife on them, are protected, period. When I visited a few of the islands around BOLA in March 05, I had to aquire a permit. My friends and I caught a few of the large chuckwallas that live there to get a good look at them and we were approached by a ranger. I was with 3 herpetologists and the ranger gave us a break, but warned us at the wildlife was off-limits to touch.

If someone is on the mainland, and is in fear of their life of a rattlesnake in camp, I totally understand you killing it. I'd suggest getting over your fears and learn how to safely handle them for the next encounter, but I understand. But Graham sells himself as some self-made naturalist and killing wildlife because you don't understand it means he is not much of a naturalist afterall.

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 07:45 PM

As kids on the ranch, we used to run our bikes over the rattlers and when they bit the tires and got their fangs stuck, we had ready made noisemaker whips...whopp!-whopp!-whopp!....much better than the cheap plastic kinds. Our legs would get all banged up, though.

Now if you believe that I have a bridge in New York I would like to talk to you about.

I guess Graham has a dead rattler to make into...food or...something? BTW..did you know wheat plants show preceptable responses when swathed and harvested? It's true, I just read about it in an old Scientific American. Egads, I can hear/imagine millions of tiny screams out there in the grain fields. Holy cow, now I will feel some guilt when eating my Wheaties, ..the Breakfast of Yesteryear's Champions (today it's 2 helpings of steroids.) Who house is the next PETA meeting at? Serving any audible snacks? Have I had too much coffee?

ursidae69 - 3-10-2006 at 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Who house is the next PETA meeting at? Serving any audible snacks? Have I had too much coffee?

Is that directed at me?? :?:

Hope not, I just finsihed a nice plate of elk that I helped kill and butcher, doubt PETA will like me and they have nothing to do with what I talked about. :cool:

PabloS - 3-10-2006 at 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ursidae69
One last comment on the rattlesnake kill. The real issue here is the fact that these islands, and the wildlife on them, are protected, period. When I visited a few of the islands around BOLA in March 05, I had to aquire a permit. My friends and I caught a few of the large chuckwallas that live there to get a good look at them and we were approached by a ranger. I was with 3 herpetologists and the ranger gave us a break, but warned us at the wildlife was off-limits to touch.

When we camped @ Refugio 20 some years ago we killed thousands of "wild" no-seeums, glad we did'nt need no steenkin permits then

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 08:51 PM

ursidae69...never fear. My post was in jest and I wrote it before you posted yours. If you knew me, you would know that I live in nature and for it. Have all my life. Can't imagine not trying to better this planet for the natural things I adore...and I really adore..Rattlesnakes!.... just long hot dogs, really.

Just kidding!!!

David K - 3-10-2006 at 09:19 PM

Dear Nomads,

I am really happy to see that you all are reading Graham's letters here and that it sparks conversation... However, Graham's writing (about personal interaction with nature) does a great service to promote the awareness of the natural beauty of Baja.

He DOES eat rattlesnake, and I would bet that the one that could have bitten him made a delicious meal for the man that WALKS all over Baja (and camps without generators or other pollution causing devices)!

I do worry when people put a poisonous snake in a higher position than a human being on the natural order. I am sure it was so close to being a danger to Graham's life, that there was not another choice.

Let me ask you this... those noisey pangueros that forced Graham to move to the new spot: Do you have any doubt that they would kill any or all rattlers that they found in their camp?

Let's not jump to conclussions and hear what Graham has to say about this, as it surely will be described in greater detail in book #4.

Gracias amigos!

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by David K]

ursidae69 - 3-10-2006 at 09:23 PM

LOL at PabloS :lol:

Those noseeums get thick, thank goodness for 100% deet! :cool:

Thanks Pompano, love your photos and jest on Nomad, keep it coming. :bounce:

To get back on topic, I just recived my first Graham Mackintosh book a few weeks ago, I need to bump it up my reading list and check it out. Even though I disagree with what Graham did, it is still cool to be stuck on that island, I'm still jealous!

EDIT: Just saw David's post. David, nobody here is putting venoumous snakes above human life, come on dood, get real. Thanks for posting the updates though.

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by ursidae69]

bajajudy - 3-10-2006 at 09:32 PM

Kumbaya
When all the poisonous snakes are gone there will be no humans either.

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 09:35 PM

bajajudy...then how do you explain Ireland's lack of snakes and preponderance of Guiness drinkers? Hmmmmm........?

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Pompano]

bajajudy - 3-11-2006 at 07:26 AM

Hey when it comes to Irish drinkers, all bets are off.

signed
judymc

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by bajajudy]

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 07:28 AM

its the "venom" of the bottle in Ireland....

Not the same as a Grizzly?

Sharksbaja - 3-12-2006 at 01:21 AM

Yep, it's ok to kill a dangerous animal if it presents a problem....NOT. Same mentality if say, a black bear or even maybe a cougar or heck an elk or moose is close to your camp. Geee, isn't their range considerably greater than say that of a rattler on a small island? Your camp may very well be within many dangerous animals'. Get a grip.

They're damn dangerous up close and personal. They usually know when hunters are near, too bad the snakes don't. Gee, if people just killed them out of fear why should anyone care,after all, they would be safe! . License or not. PETA or not. :lol:

Woo boy!

Hook - 3-12-2006 at 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Dear Nomads,

I am really happy to see that you all are reading Graham's letters here and that it sparks conversation... However, Graham's writing (about personal interaction with nature) does a great service to promote the awareness of the natural beauty of Baja.

He DOES eat rattlesnake, and I would bet that the one that could have bitten him made a delicious meal for the man that WALKS all over Baja (and camps without generators or other pollution causing devices)!

I do worry when people put a poisonous snake in a higher position than a human being on the natural order. I am sure it was so close to being a danger to Graham's life, that there was not another choice.

Let me ask you this... those noisey pangueros that forced Graham to move to the new spot: Do you have any doubt that they would kill any or all rattlers that they found in their camp?

Let's not jump to conclussions and hear what Graham has to say about this, as it surely will be described in greater detail in book #4.

Gracias amigos!

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by David K]

Uh, David......

I'm curious why you would make him out to be some kind of responsible naturalist who is opening the eyes of the world to the natural beauty of Baja. I'd say his behavior with the snake refutes that completely. I've probably had 15-20 encounters with rattlers and the common thread is their desire to get the hell outta Dodge, ASAP. A walking stick as a deterrent (not as a bludgeon) is really all that one needs. Zip your tent at night and you're safe. Remember, these things will let YOU know when you're too close.

Did he really kill and eat rattlers in his treks across the peninsula? There are many ways of getting from point A to B on the peninsula. I cant fathom that he had more than one situation where the snake HAD TO BE KILLED in a "him or me" scenario.

Are these the traits that put our hero in a "higher position in the natural order?" Or the traits in "....Graham's writing (about personal interaction with nature) does a great service to promote the awareness of the natural beauty of Baja."

I'd venture to say he's begun to use the snakes for dramatic effect in the books.....or he feels it's something like Alfred Hitchc-ck's cameo appearances. IMO, it's becoming some kind of ritual.

After all, it's a little difficult to create a man vs. nature drama where there are few dangers......and a panga with supplies or a rescue is just a radio call away.

I still think this whole thing is falling a bit short of an adventure. Then again, maybe all we're being fed is "the tease." Really, what Graham has going for him is a non-traditional work schedule (damn, those Mackintosh boys have good gigs!) and an extremely lenient wife. I'm envious, but that's about it, for me.

Maybe, more than anything, I'm having trouble with the motivation here. The book seems to be wagging the adventure, instead of the other way around. I feel like I'm witnessing the creation of a book, rather than an adventure. You decide to walk the peninsula with a burro, that's one thing.....

Why, even I'VE managed to predict the plot points.......remember my post on page four of this thread?

C'mon, now, he MUST have earned "immunity" in a competition with that member of the KAYAK tribe he encountered, no? Or did members of the PANGA tribe come to his aid?

Predicted next episode of Survivor: La Guardia...........SNAKES!!!

Allright, so I hadn't counted on members of the Uncouth Tribe of Pangueros coming along. But they aided him and they willingly moved him. Seems I was spot on with the snake.

I'm thinking that this now qualifies me for co-writing credits.

I might as well take a crack at the next couple of episodes. Residuals add up, ya know.

Handlining for Yellowtail: Snakeskin Amulet Works With NGK Sparkplug!

Chuckwalla: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore.

Eating Crow: Early Nemesis Gets His Due......But It Tastes NOTHING Like Chicken :barf:

Close Encounters of the Shark Kind: Foodchain Reality Bites....Almost!

Dances with Dolphins: Yo! Us Mammalia Gotta Stick Together.

Uncouth Tribe of Pangueros Return: Hungry Mammalia Swift-ly Make A Modest Proposal as Winds Limit Harvest!

Yeah, I'm a sarcastic sod. Commercials have always had that effect on me.

But keep 'em coming. It's becoming more entertaining than I expected.

I dont feel the need to question...

eetdrt88 - 3-12-2006 at 08:56 AM

what Graham did,after reading 2 of his books that are both stories of him wandering around Baja its easy to tell that the guy isnt prone to going around killing unneccesarily...in fact the impression of him I got is that he has quite a unique relationship with animals ...again I feel this way after reading his books which gives me some background on Graham,after all the criticism he has received on this thread it seems obvious that most of the critics have not read any of his books......maybe its like the guy stated above that some are envious or maybe because its just so easy to be a critic on an internet forum,whatever the reason I think some folks are missing the point of what Graham is doing

Pompano - 3-12-2006 at 09:08 AM

Leaving your comfy living room? Then take note:

Civilization stops at the shoreline....after that we enter the food chain. Are you lunch or a diner? :smug:

Hook...you kill me. What a hoot! I am smiling my way to the fridge for some rattlesnake leftovers.

[Edited on 3-12-2006 by Pompano]

Bob and Susan - 3-12-2006 at 09:30 AM

we get a couple a year here in upland ca

last year one got in the wallboard in the garage....

Susan and I cut a square out with shovels before we had dinner :lol:

just kidding about dinner...susan won't eat snakes...but she did assist with the kill...

if they get in the yard they die...too much danger for the "hot dogs: :lol:

David K - 3-12-2006 at 11:31 AM

Hook, my responce is just in place of one Graham cannot give due to his location.

As I told another Nomad who emailed me, comments about Graham's actions are fine (this is a discussion forum afterall)... But don't get all worked up if I (or others) respond with the other side in Graham's defense.

A rattlesnake bite can be deadly and should get medical treatment... that is not possible where Graham is. I do believe Graham felt he had no choice, and on the spur of the moment, it is better to go with the choice that insures you will live.

I do think you guys need to appreciate that Graham is even telling us this stuff and not be ragging on him for doing so. That is my opinion...

Now, have a nice day!

[Edited on 3-12-2006 by David K]

Gypsy Jan - 3-12-2006 at 09:11 PM

I think that the kill/don't kill opinions are great and do apply in a debate.

But, unless you are there, how can you judge the actions of an individual protecting himself?

I've never killed an animal in any situation, but, I probably would defend myself if I thought that was needed.

cata-vino - 3-12-2006 at 10:39 PM

I'm sad to see the judgmental crowd again jumped on some minor details and sullied the man. This is what is wrong with many of these boards. It's not enough to enjoy the stories and sharing. We have to be judgmental, although most of us have never been in the same situation, or have the same experience/expertise to make the call. I don't care if you have seen 20 rattlesnakes. When it comes to dealing with the elements in Baja, Graham is one of the world's experts. I've never met the man but I've read his books, and my opinion has not changed.

He's human, with flaws and fears and instincts of self-preservation. Something he does will not be to everyone's likings. Deal with it. It's called being tolerant. You are not in his shoes, being days away from the nearest hospital, or see his situation through his eyes on a remote island.

Reading his adventures enriches my days, and it'll be a tragedy if guys like him quit sharing or water down their adventures so much that their stories begin to read like a Disney movie of the week.

I've driven all over Baja for years and I biked, flown over, boated, kayaked, camped and fish along most of its eastern shore. But seeing other posters regularly bashed by armchair self-righteous experts, I and quite a few others I know quit sharing. Now, we just go out and enjoy ourselves and keep things private to ourselves and a few select friends.

Kudos to the Grahams and the David K's (and others) of the world. They have the stomach for it. If you have been around these boards long enough, you notice guys who come and post some good adventure stories, get bashed for some minor details that offend someone's sensibilities, and you never hear froom them again.

It's no fun when the joy of sharing is drowned out by the noise of whining.

Oh yes, this is my first post and probably only post. I'm going to put on my shoes, probably made by some child laborer in China, go out and start my car to put a bigger hole in the ozone layer, and drive the family to Red Lobster for that shrimp dish that my kids love but that have been caught together with 10lbs of discarded bycatch...but heck, I didn't kill no rattlesnakes this month so I MUST be superior to Graham.

[Edited on 3-13-2006 by cata-vino]

Fatboy - 3-12-2006 at 11:03 PM

I have to read through a lot of unrelated stuff to get to the heart of this thread. While I was dissapointed in Grahams act with the snake, it wasn't the end of the world.

I think most people agree that killing the snake was not required and whether or not he has a fear of snakes does not justify his action either. As to the proximity stuff, he said 50 yards didn't he? Hell, for you folks in the suburbs that like 3 houses away. It is not like he opened his tent door and it was coiled on his boots.

So he was wrong for killing it but it is now done. Unless it was one of the last of it species then we should be O.K. In all fairness though I have killed about 7 rattlers in my life and 3 of those were eaten. I have also captured another 6 or so and released them unharmed. Therefore, I am not one to say "Don't kill it!".

There was one in a patch of weeds in Bear River that I almost stepped on while fishing that river for bass one summer. It was about 3 feet long and as big around as a soda can (beer, for those of you that...) and me and my brother caught it, walked the mile home with it, got yelled at by our parents and set it free.

So every now and then I will catch a king, garter(yuck) or other snake near our home to show our children before releasing them on our property. I have yet to see anyone bitten by a rattler or or snake so the danger factor is way overblown. Yes, people do get bit, by dogs, by horses, by spiders and by snakes but it is very rare.

Don Alley - 3-13-2006 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
...
Let's not jump to conclussions and hear what Graham has to say about this, as it surely will be described in greater detail in book #4.
...

Macintosh should be off the island, and explaining the killing of that snake in a Mexican court, not in a new "adventure" book. Some people think he shouldn't be "ragged on" on a message board? Hey, we'll take what little justice we can get; he should get worse.

The islands are supposed to be ecological reserves, not locations for some guy to set up his next for-profit venture. ANYONE who thinks that a snake found near a campsite on these islands can or should be killed should vacation elsewhere. Like Cabo San Lucas.

Macintosh could spend a month in "Cabo" and write about it. It might be more interesting than his planned and canned adventures.

It might be even better if he could write as well as Hook.

David K - 3-13-2006 at 09:31 AM

So, would you rather not read of what it is like camping on an island off Baja than to hear the whole story, including the death of one rattlesnake?

Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field day here!

When fishuntr killed the red diamondback that came into our busy camp area (dogs, people) in April, 2003, you snake-lovers also had a fit. :rolleyes:

Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.). :light:

Graham has a permit to be there, as stated in the earlier mails from him... Maybe he will turn himself in? Jail would be a quiet place to write his next book, afterall!
:lol:

Fatboy - 3-13-2006 at 10:17 AM

Quote:

Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field day here!

OK. now hold up a minute. It was Graham OR the snake? The Snake WAS NOT ATTACKING a helpless creature! You need to be more realistic here and don't try to defend Graham.

Quote:

Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.).

So which one was Graham's reason for killing the snake? Safety? He was in no danger, there are probably several snakes, not to mention scorpions within 50 yards of his camp.

Food? Having been there, done that, I would not consider it a meal. Was he starving to death?

Etc.? This must be it. Since there is no reason to kill something except eat it, keep it from eating you or to prevent it from eating your food. Any other reason is just killing for the sake of killing.

Killing the snake was just him being afraid of snakes which does NOT make it RIGHT. It just goes to show how ignorant we humans are. I am not holding it against him and want to hear more of his adventure. Just do not make it some big deal, he killed it, he shouldn't have, time to move on.

Oops, gotta go, some birds just landed on my property and I feel the need to kill something, not to eat, just kill...

[Edited on 3-13-2006 by Fatboy]

Don Alley - 3-13-2006 at 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
So, would you rather not read of what it is like camping on an island off Baja than to hear the whole story, including the death of one rattlesnake?

Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field day here!

When fishuntr killed the red diamondback that came into our busy camp area (dogs, people) in April, 2003, you snake-lovers also had a fit. :rolleyes:

Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.). :light:

Graham has a permit to be there, as stated in the earlier mails from him... Maybe he will turn himself in? Jail would be a quiet place to write his next book, afterall!
:lol:

I would rather not read his book. I read one, that's enough.

"Put the poison viper above humans?" I do enjoy wildlife and I think rational beings-which includes some humans-should have some restraints on instinctive, animalistic "kill or be killed" behavior. Such as rules and regulations governing hunting and fishing. And rules creating ecological reserves. To respond to that by saying that I put "animals above humans" is illogical, although I will confess that do not travel to wild outdoor places to see people driving around in Toyota trucks. :lol:

The argument that killing the snake was necessary self defense is absurd. Killing the snake put him in more danger than just walking away from it. He should restrict his camping to places with no snakes, or places where he can legally kill and eat them, or learn to leave them alone.

And yes, Graham has a permit to be there. And I suspect he violated that permit. And I do think he should turn himself in.

ursidae69 - 3-13-2006 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
So, would you rather not read of what it is like camping on an island off Baja than to hear the whole story, including the death of one rattlesnake?

I do know what it is like to camp on an island in Baja as do many here. I'd still like to hear his updates, even if the guy is a big baby around snakes. "Ohh, I'm skeeeeered of the snake 50 yards from my camp, I have to kill it!" Maybe he'll use my quote in his book and cite me. :lol:

The work required to kill it was far more dangerous than simply walking around it. Ask any herpetologist. I suggest that Graham, and you DavidK go to http://www.tongs.com/ and buy the Gentle Giant Snake Tong to make removal of snakes completely safe and easy. Or you can use the tong to hold him while you kill him, whatever floats your boat.

Quote:

Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field day here!

Nobody is putting human lives above snakes, quit being silly David. If he or anyone else is truly in danger, then hell yeah, kill it, but Graham was not in danger. If he really does like to kill things that present danger, he should have killed all the fisherman that moved into his camp and smoked dope. They were a lot more of a threat than the silly snake! :lol:

Quote:

When fishuntr killed the red diamondback that came into our busy camp area (dogs, people) in April, 2003, you snake-lovers also had a fit. :rolleyes:

Waaaaaaaaa....... By the way DavidK, C. ruber's correct common name the red diamond rattlesnake, not red diamondback. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.). :light:

I agree, please tell Graham to learn some basic survival techniques.

Quote:

Graham has a permit to be there, as stated in the earlier mails from him... Maybe he will turn himself in? Jail would be a quiet place to write his next book, afterall!
:lol:

Bottom line, if he or anyone else is going to visit another country, at least follow their rules and customs. If the islands are protected along with the critters, then follow the rules or write your book from someplace else.

[Edited on 3-13-2006 by ursidae69]

Gringo Policia

eetdrt88 - 3-13-2006 at 12:18 PM

these snake defenders are a real hoot,next time I encounter one i'll be sure to let it know not to worry for the defenders of the snake are numerous and are ready to do battle with anyone who harms the beautiful creature :lol:

geez,lighten up already...i've camped in Baja many times and have killed a few innocent creatures like scorpions and other spiders not to mention fish and who knows what else...the mexicans who live locally do the same...it seems to be a matter of personal choice,so why question the choice of a person who obviously has a permit to be there and made a choice to kill an animal known to be deadly that was in close proximity to his camp.......even if it was a mistake,why sit around and harp on it endlessly when it is such a trivial part of the largerer picture of what Graham is doing on the island....does it give some of you nay-sayers such great pleasure to point out this apparent flaw in Grahams character that you cant just let it go :no:

Sharksbaja - 3-13-2006 at 03:19 PM

Eet, people don't get over anything here! But they certainly reuse the same ol' bait. Were just waiting for mo fodder. Seriously, Graham should share(carefully), like the time he sat on a cholla. Killed it dead, but dint eat it. :lol:

News From Graham

Mike Supino - 3-13-2006 at 03:30 PM

I just heard that he did not actually kill the snake... he just put that part in his report to stir sh*t.

"Whats that you say,Andy...

eetdrt88 - 3-13-2006 at 04:20 PM

you just caught that evil snake killer Graham Mackintosh,well be careful,he's crazy you know....i'll call in for back-up" :biggrin:

Pompano - 3-13-2006 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Supino
I just heard that he did not actually kill the snake... he just put that part in his report to stir sh*t.

Egads, that clever Graham has put one over on us....WE'VE BEEN HAD!

ursidae69 - 3-13-2006 at 04:27 PM

I dunno EET, we might need Rosco!!!

[Edited on 3-13-2006 by ursidae69]

eetdrt88 - 3-13-2006 at 04:33 PM

if you ask me,the dog looks a bit smarter than old Rosco does! :lol:

fishuntr - 3-13-2006 at 05:48 PM

Sheesh David!...I just recently got off parole for killing that buzztail 3 years ago at Santa Maria. Now you have to tell a whole new batch of Nomads about my transgressions. Oh woe!. How can I ever live this down.

David K - 3-13-2006 at 07:24 PM

Anything to get you to post here fishuntr!!! :biggrin:

You have a lot to share, afterall... and only 16 posts on Nomad!?

Those of you snake-huggers who somehow think that I also kill vipers because I post Graham's letters here and am standing in to defend him as he cannot... Well, for your information, I have not killed any snakes in Baja but have seen several.... rattlers always in APRIL.

My daughter's photo with a red diamond rattler appeared in the Discover Baja magazine article I wrote (about Inky the dog, found on our way into Santa Maria)... We easily could have killed it, but didn't as we had no need to. Another red diamond (diamondback to some) I nearly stepped on in Parral canyon... took its photo and left it alone. A Baja Ca rattlesnake was on the road near Montevideo petro site... again, took its picture and let it go... All photos in my web site... Want me to post them here?

So, stop ragging on me...

Also, since Graham IS a expert Baja camper, backpacker and adventurer, not some complaining tourist, I will believe HIM: that he felt the need to kill the snake...

Get over it... for Pete's sake :rolleyes:

bajalera - 3-13-2006 at 09:24 PM

When we first lived in La Paz--back in the days when venomous snakes were not widely considered to be Our Friends--I killed a rattlesnake because I wondered what they tasted like. Sauteed in butter and simmered in a little white wine, it was delicious.

We gave some to a couple of Mexican schoolmates of my sons (then 9 and 11) who stopped by, telling them it was pollo de desierto. The boys really liked it. When told it was rattlesnake, they laughed--and both of them asked for a piece of "desert chicken" to take home and fool their dads with.

Sigmund Freud could probably make something out of this.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by bajalera]

Neal Johns - 3-13-2006 at 10:41 PM

Our Husky, Kodiak, found a snake in the kitchen. I killed it. (Continued)

Neal Johns - 3-13-2006 at 10:44 PM

Then, I ate it.
Huskies taste like chicken. :lol:

Sharksbaja - 3-14-2006 at 12:41 AM

YOU DOG NEAL!!! :bounce:

GRAHAM IS BACK! Snake kill detailed...

David K - 3-14-2006 at 05:58 PM

This has been replaced by a better Word document version, 9:30 pm Tue. night

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 14, 2006
San Diego

From Graham Mackintosh

Back home in San Diego twelve pounds lighter, I?ve been able to review the postings about my Guardian Angel Island trip on this message board.

Wow! I thought I used the term ?marooned? in quotation marks as a convenient handle to describe my situation. It was meant lightheartedly. So I was a little surprised by all the excitement that caused some people.

As for all the stuff about Survivor, I can?t really comment on that; I?ve never watched the program and have no desire to. I?d much rather be somewhere like Guardian Angel Island hiking, kayaking, beachcombing, bird watching, exploring, and generally relaxing and meditating beneath the stars. I do have the equipment, know-how, and common sense to survive alone in such circumstances if necessary ? several times I ran out of water and had to make drinking water from the sea ? but that was not the intention of my trip. I was not on the island looking for trouble. If I never had a dangerous or unpleasant moment out there I?d be a very happy man.

My goal was to get to know the island, its history, geology, wildlife, ecology, the people who come and go, to photograph it, to experience it and, if the spirit moves me, to write about it and try to distil its essence to my readers. As it has taken me about two years on average to do the research and write each of my three books I have to be sure my heart is in it before I take the plunge.

I?d like to think I?m aging gracefully and the Graham Mackintosh that wrote Nearer My Dog to Thee and Journey with a Baja Burro is a very different person from the more naive ?swashbuckling? author of Into a Desert Place. Some people don?t like the change; others haven?t even noticed it. But certainly there is evolution ? backpacking to burro packing to ?base camping.? The journeys have got shorter, the physical demands easier, the interests different. Shoot, I may just cuddle up to the comfort of my computer screen and sit on my ?burro? for the next project and write a novel!

Well, as for killing that rattlesnake, it was probably the toughest decision of the trip. My wife, an avid snake lover, strongly disagreed with what I did.

If I had encountered it away from my camp ? up in the mountains or on some remote beach -- I would have taken some photographs, wished it well and carried on.

However, I had just arrived at Este Ton and was taking my first hike inland, up a little, steep-sided, brush-covered gulley. Without scrambling up slopes or over the large boulders on the shore, it offered the most obvious trail off my little sandy beach.

The gulley was littered with blowing bathroom tissue, unburied caca, and assorted trash left behind presumably by fishermen who often choose the sheltered bay as a campsite. I remember thinking I am going to have to clean this up? and as I stepped over rocks and felt the brush scrape against my legs, the only other thought I had time for was ? I had better watch myself here, it?s a warm day following a warm night and this place is prime rattlesnake country.

I was an easy stone?s throw from my campsite, right in the gulley that leads to it, and I encounter one of the largest rattlesnakes I?ve ever seen! It was perfectly camouflaged beneath some sticks and reeds. I almost trod on it. It did not rattle. I only noticed it because it moved. Up until that moment, during my first month on the island, I hadn?t seen a sign of a snake.

Retreating a yard or two, I slipped off my backpack, took some pictures and then spent several minutes looking at it, looking down to my tent, and debating what to do. In spite of numerous encounters I hadn?t killed a rattlesnake in maybe a dozen years. But I had a serious problem here.

I couldn?t just bypass it and forget it. The snake was maybe just a two minute slither from my tent and camping gear, from the place that I would be calling home for almost the next month.

I was alone on that island with very uncertain communications. [There at Este Ton, although I could often hear radio traffic from LA Bay, especially if I climbed a bit, I tried unsuccessfully several times to contact anyone on my handheld marine radio.]

The sea was rough after a wild night. The wind could come blasting up at any moment. The tides were running at their fullest and the currents were intimidating. I would not give a lot for my chances if I were bitten by a rattlesnake and had to try kayaking fifteen miles back to Bah?a de los Angeles on my stable but slow Cobra Tandem ?sit-on-top.?

I thought about returning to my camp and grabbing some kind of bag or container in which to put the snake? or using my machete, walking stick, or some other object to carry it away out of the gulley. But such was the size of the snake, and picturing the difficulties of pulling it into the open, picking it up and carrying it far enough up that canyon to safely release it, it just seemed like an accident waiting to happen.

Besides, the snake was getting increasingly lively and I thought there was a good chance if I left the scene it would disappear and I might not see it again till I did tread on it.

Weighing all the circumstances, I reluctantly decided to kill the rattlesnake. A single rock was sufficient. It wasn?t something I took any pride or pleasure in. In fact, I felt guilty and sick about it.

I didn?t eat it, but I did examine its stomach contents to see what it had been eating.

It wasn?t a red diamondback. It was a speckled rattlesnake. Although red diamondbacks ? Crotalus ruber ? are fairly large snakes on the Baja peninsula, there on Isla Angel de la Guarda they tend to be much smaller. The reverse is true for the speckled rattlesnake ? Crotalus mitchellii ? the island version of which has evolved into a very large formidable snake. Most authorities think this is because it arrived on the island first and adapted to the ready supply of large endemic chuckwallas (Sauromalus hispidus) leaving the red diamondback latecomers to find another niche. Indeed, I saw several chuckwallas on the slope above where I killed the snake, including the one seen here. I suspect they were the preferred prey.

Anyway, it was a life and death decision that I wished I did not have to make. Whatever I did, there were going to be consequences. I didn?t act because I hate or am terrified of rattlesnakes as some posters rather ungenerously suggest, or indifferent to the responsibilities of being in a protected reserve. However, in the circumstances and in the time I had to make my decision, I felt a greater responsibility to myself, my family? and to not endangering the lives of anyone who might have tried to get out there to get me to medical assistance.

I know many people think I was wrong and will have no sympathy with my action and will not be impressed by my pointing out that I subsequently walked by that spot at least fifty times? or my pointing out that by all accounts there are high population densities of both Crotalus ruber and Crotalus mitchellii on the forty-two mile long island? and part of me agrees with them? but alone in such circumstances caution is a virtue that has served me well over the years and I just saw things a little differently.

My thanks to those who tried to put themselves in my boots and withhold judgment till they at least heard my side of things.

Graham Mackintosh

( Graham attached the following three photos )

[Edited on 3-15-2006 by David K]

David K - 3-14-2006 at 05:59 PM

second photo...

David K - 3-14-2006 at 06:00 PM

third photo showing EsteTon (second camp location)

Oso - 3-14-2006 at 07:28 PM

Buena respuesta. Para mi, ahi muere.

[Edited on 3-15-2006 by Oso]

[Edited on 3-15-2006 by Oso]

In all honesty

Sharksbaja - 3-14-2006 at 07:43 PM

Graham, although I frown on unwarranted killing, I must admit that I may have possibly reacted the same way. Believe me snakebites are horrible and although no one ever sees someone thats been bitten it is not a pretty sight.
My reason(s) are very deeply seeded however.
I would be remiss later as you are and regret what I had done.Thanks for owning up to your awkward position and decision, and expressing them here. Corky

say, why did you not eat that bad boy?

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