BajaNomad - Okay--Huge Tragedy Affecting all of Mexico

Okay--Huge Tragedy Affecting all of Mexico

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DENNIS - 9-19-2006 at 08:49 PM

Bajalero ---

Big request for word power. Your term, "Dirt Pimps".
Can I borrow that? It's perfect.

Dennis

DENNIS - 9-19-2006 at 08:52 PM

Bancoduo ---

He'd be arrested for entering the country for not going through a port of entry. I looked into it.

DENNIS - 9-19-2006 at 08:54 PM

Good night.

JESSE - 9-20-2006 at 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Jesse
How can you think, even for a second, that migration is bad for Mexico? I mean, you folks with new shoes export your unemployed to the a--hole American wasteland and get back twenty billion dollars a year in remittances, the second largest amount of foreign investment behind oil.
You claim a low unemployment rate. Yeah, why not? All your unemployed are in the states.
C'mon Jesse --- Dont be one of those who throw the racist card every time you get upset. I didn't call Mexicans enchiladas. I refered to the two trillion ton enchilada in the same vane as everybody [of course not you] refers to the Tortilla Curtain.

You are right, America needs immigrants. Im glad that's fact because my grandparents were from Ireland.
But, you know what Jesse, they came into the U.S. legally.

HonestlyJesse, I wouldn't be that concerned about illegal immigration if people like you, just exactly like you, didn't express their entitlement to ignore our laws. Our laws are our laws but they dont mean crap to you or your track star buddies.
I live in Mexico and respect Mexican Law. I also obey it. Your disregard for U.S. law is the attitude which will start a war.

Viva Aztlan, right?

Imigration is a symptom of the failure of an economic system. If Mexico was doing well and growing at 5 to 7% annually, we would would need to be importing people, not exporting them. The 20 billion we get from remitances pales in comparison to the couple of hundred billions we could be generating if those millions of people lived here and where productive members of a solid economy.

Enchilada seems a harsh term to me, and probably to many others, i am not trowing the race card here, but i would prefer you call me a Mexican, not an enchilada.

Dennis, if you don't want illegal immigration, don't blame the migrants, blame your goverment. Its easy to blame the illegals for "breaking the law", but then again, why arent you angry at your corporations and everyday citizens that hire them? What we have here, is a nation that needs fresh labor, but at the same time, doesn't want to deal with the problems that come along with that. Don't you see why politicians turn a blind eye to this problem? its because they know full well that if they suggest realistically, that america should let in 1 to 1.5 million people each year in order to keep up, the people would not accept it. And in this case, the people do not know better.

I respect your laws, and i think they should be obeyed, but its blatantly obvious YOUR goverment is not in any hurry to stop illegal immigration. Why? because you need it, so as long as you can't even find a way to make your own corporations follow the law by not hiring illegal immigrants. you can't demand that the average dirt poor jose stops at the border and say, "i am not going to cross the border because its illegal".

Oh and, there isnt going to be any wars, not inside of your nation, and not betwen our two nations. both our futures are linked, and we have a lot of nastier stuff to deal with in the coming years than illegal immigrants and enchiladas. It would be stupid to waste our time and resources figuring out ways to divide us, when the real dangers are growing far far away from our shores.

JZ - 9-20-2006 at 10:10 AM

If I was poor and had no opportunity, I'd being crossing the border as well. Anyone who thinks or says differently is full of crap.

Do It ALL

MrBillM - 9-20-2006 at 11:03 AM

Build the walls, increase the Security Forces, Enforce the Laws , Fine and Throw in jail the businessmen who break the law.

Get Control.

The U.S. economy will work just fine with whatever legal immigration is necessary.

DENNIS - 9-20-2006 at 11:15 AM

Jesse ---

I couldn't agree more. Government, in support of business is the reason for this mess.

Again, I didn't call Mexicans "enchiladas". The rolling enchilada was a reference to the migration dynamic. I wont defend myself on that issue any more. If you want to ignore my explaination and read what you want to read, that's your call, Jesse.
If I were into name-calling, I would use some of the more common words and phrases but, I'm not and I wont.

You and I have agreed, probably as much as we ever will on this subject so I suggest we give it a rest. Perhaps someday we'll met and if the mood is right, we can drag the issue out and beat it up some more. Till then Jesse, hasta luego.

Dennis

oxxo - 9-20-2006 at 08:23 PM

I have been watching this thread from the beginning, while maintaining an open mind. Watching and digesting. Some very interesting perspectives. But now, I think everything that can be said has been said.

In my opinion, JESSE is making the most sense.

[Edited on 9-21-2006 by oxxo]

Absolutely!

Baja Bernie - 9-20-2006 at 08:27 PM

BajaJim - 9-26-2006 at 10:22 PM

I have to say I have pondered ALMO and I have to say I think he has made a fool of himself. I, from what I have read and studied, do not think there was any vote fraud. Nor do I think that AMLO has the backing. I have heard from locals that the folks in the Zocalo were being paid about 2000 pesos per day. Also, I think if there were fraud they would have had a larger gap. Also, there were many observers from all 3 parties and foreign vote monitors.

As far as revolution, I think that is a bit ambitious. Keep in mind that the US would be called in by Calderon to help stabelize any government take over.

The person who started this thread said we should be more responsable keeping up with the current situation. I will tell you I have tracked it from July 2 til today and if you do a search on 2006 Mexico Presidential election, the search went from many thousands of articles to a very few. Also, if you search Orbrador it also has become very quite (on Google).

longlegsinlapaz - 9-27-2006 at 10:30 AM

Okay, I can’t stand it anymore!!! Initially, I didn’t post to this thread because to me, it seemed pointedly political…i.e., the Mexican Presidential elections, the candidates & their actions, and the fallout on predominantly the Mexican people, but also gringos living & owning property here. Then it seemed to kind of evolve.

My dos centavos....I feel that the illegal immigration into the USA was actually allowed to escalate to the enormous proportions it has by the US Government & US businesses. They turned a blind eye to illegal immigration by allowing it to continue. I believe it's beneficial to BOTH countries. US employers hire illegals knowing full well that they are illegal. US companies reduce their taxes by paying workers under the table & they reduce their overall operating costs by not paying benefits packages; they alone benefit the most, the workers lose out on benefits & the wages they’d otherwise be getting if they were legally employed, and the Government loses in tax revenue.

The illegal workers get a living wage…by their standards, typically not by our standards. They can earn enough to both live in a country where the cost of living greatly exceeds the cost of living of their own country, and they can send money back to families living in Mexico. I can see how enticing this would be to financially poor Mexicans. US employers take advantage of the situation by paying less than they would to a legal worker & the Mexican has no recourse but to accept it because there are thousands (millions) of other illegals willing to take their place in a heartbeat.

And those that are so quick to judge & point fingers need to be aware that there are SOME illegals working in the USA who DO have a US tax ID # and ARE paying taxes, but who are nonetheless denied access to medical insurance & any of the welfare or assistance programs. I personally know two people who fall under this category! But I know they are in the minority.

The US immigrations laws are #1. A JOKE! Based on the quotas allowed to begin the legal process, individuals from some countries would have had to begun the application process in 1988 to be just now coming up for review! #2. The INS is so backlogged by the quantity of people applying through legal channels that they will NEVER get caught up! #3. This is a huge moneymaking situation for the USA Immigration lawyers who fight the US system for as long as the illegals can afford to pay to prevent deportation; and those are only the ones who have been caught! #4. The US has historically condoned illegal immigration by turning a blind eye on it because it was financially beneficial to the USA to do so, while mouthing empty words about the entire situation. #5. The elephant is sitting in the living room, and he’s so huge that there is NO WAY to get him out!

Personally, I’d vote to have the border opened before I’d support construction of a wall. IMHO, a wall would be a HUGE WASTE of money that could be much better used elsewhere. A wall can be gotten over, around or under by anyone with the determination to get to the other side. I feel it’s hypocritical of the US Government to be taking their current stand on a situation they’ve allowed to evolve to the point where it doubtful that an equitable solution for both the USA & Mexico is achievable.

I do NOT promote illegal immigration and all it entails, but I can & do understand it! I sincerely believe that the problem would never have reached this magnitude if the US made the process to acquire legal status easier, quicker & more affordable. I do feel that there needs to be a filter in place to not allow convicted persons into the country, and I also believe that the USA should work with Mexico to come up with a plan to deport illegals convicted of crimes in the US back to Mexico to serve their time at the expense of Mexico. So call me Pollyanna!

I feel English is the national language now, just as it was when our forefathers immigrated from where ever each of our personal gene pools originated. I believe, that the national flag of the host country should be flown higher than any other flags. And, yes, I was incensed when I stopped at a fast-food place in the LA area and not ONE SINGLE EMPLOYEE in the place spoke English. I'm guilty of not speaking fluent Espanol, but I do make an effort & can make myself understood in their language, combined with mime & drawing in the sand if necessary!

I definitely don’t have all the answers, but I do know that an acceptable solution (to me) has not yet been proposed, nor is one that I’d vote for likely to be proposed, based on the potential solutions I’ve heard thus far!

And we wonder why we have the name “Ugly Americans”!!! Some of the comments posted to this thread make me ashamed & embarrassed to share American status with at least one poster! Bajamatic, thank you for taking the time to go back & find the post where DENNIS admitted his illegal presence & work in Mexico & total disregard for Mexican laws. I remembered it immediately upon reading his posts, but didn’t take the time to go back & retrieve it! DENNIS, it’s obvious from most of your posts that you are both intelligent & knowledgeable about Mexican laws & history (MUCH more so than I!), to the point that I feel you knowingly & intentionally baited JESSE by posting terminology that I found to be offensive & I’m a gringo! We are guests in this country and the laws and the people of this country deserve to be treated respectfully, just like you expect to be treated respectfully here. You owe JESSE an apology!!! You owe the Mexican people an apology! What you said in print is considered racial slurs in MY book, and if you’d post it here that tells me you’d say it publicly. Don’t feign surprise when someone takes exception to your disrespectful terminology; you’re too intelligent to think that you could honestly get away with throwing out offensive & stereotypical racial slurs….you knew what you were doing when you posted it. And you’ll know what you’re doing the NEXT TIME you post something like that….just as I’ll know what I’m doing when I hit the “REPORT” button the next time I read that kind of crap! :fire:

sylens - 9-27-2006 at 02:51 PM

i appreciate those who, like longlegs and jesse, take the time and energy to process a topic as difficult and emotionally provocative as this one.

thanks for helping me better understand my own position.

DENNIS - 9-28-2006 at 07:01 PM

Longlegs ---

I read your post and was actually hurt by it. That should please you.
I thought of letting it go to its own resting place but couldn't bring myself to do that. Some things just require attention.

My pain was not for me so much as for you, Longlegs. I am, on a daily basis, confronted by my brother Americans who dont read the news, dont study history, cant project to the future and tend to see U.S./Mex relations as no more complicated than their last purchase at a taco stand. [ Oh, excuse me. I said taco. I hope that doesn't brand me as a racist ]

You and that Bajamatic dude like to refer to my comment about being here in the past illegally. Im legal now and now is where we are. Did you, or anybody else who reads this, spend any time here, even a minute, without proper papers? Let me guess.

I baited Jesse? I dont bait anybody, ever. I speak my piece and it stands for itself and I dont think Jesse needs to be defended. He took care of himself proudly. He knows how to carry an arguement in a productive way.

You dont.

You call me an Ugly American.
Can you see the wounds that I carry in my head from fighting for America?
Can you appreciate my 100% service connected disability?

You are ashamed of me?

You should be ashamed of yourself for giving me up just so you can consider yourself a model guest in Mexico. You even call yourself a gringo. If you had any self respect you wouldn't use the word but, I truly believe you dont know any better.

You stated that what I said in print [ very profound considering the medium ] is considered a racial slure in your book. Your book, however thin it may be, is a paragraph of ignorance. You have no idea what I actually said or why I said it. You just chose to be offended by it because you thought it would be fashionable or PC.

Well, Longlegs, Im offended by you and your nasty estimation of me and if there is any shame generated here, it is mine for you and all other North Americans who come down here and leave their national pride at the border. Im proud to be an American where ever I am. I think you're more proud to be a guest.

Dont ever refer to me as an Ugly American again. I may be an ugly guest but im not an ugly American. You should consider what you are before passing judgement on others.

So, there you go Longlegs. Press the report button if the truth bothers you.

Legs!

Baja Bernie - 9-28-2006 at 07:52 PM

That is exactly why I think before I jump!

Life is never simple!

Bajamatic - 9-28-2006 at 08:05 PM

" Oh, excuse me. I said taco. I hope that doesn't brand me as a racist"

no, but refering to the inlfux of mexican culture to the southwest US as a "two trillion ton enchilada" sure is.

"You and that Bajamatic dude like to refer to my comment about being here in the past illegally. Im legal now and now is where we are. "

That is pathetic. You were living in the country illegally. You proudly claimed it as though it were something cool you had done. And here you are bashing any illegal immigrant who doesn't obey the law? Sorry - caught with your pants down here.

"Did you, or anybody else who reads this, spend any time here, even a minute, without proper papers? Let me guess."

no dennis, not even for a second.

"I baited Jesse? I dont bait anybody, ever. I speak my piece and it stands for itself and I dont think Jesse needs to be defended. He took care of himself proudly. He knows how to carry an arguement in a productive way."

PLEASE! Jesse BURIED YOU! (and called you out on the enchilada thing too)

"Can you see the wounds that I carry in my head from fighting for America?
Can you appreciate my 100% service connected disability? "

Oh god. Please, don't blame this on Vietnam. We, I anyway, thank you for your service. That does not excuse you from being wrong.

"Im proud to be an American where ever I am. I think you're more proud to be a guest."

Hmmm. Lets get this straight. You are saying that this person, a guest while in mexico, is wrong to act like a guest? I think this person is offended by the way you treat the people that surround them at present for fear that she might be judged for your actions. Anyone know a good name for this?

[Edited on 9-29-2006 by Bajamatic]

[Edited on 9-29-2006 by Bajamatic]

The Eye of the Beholder

MrBillM - 10-18-2006 at 10:02 AM

This seems to have degenerated into the equivalent of an Elementary School playground brawl (My Dad can beat your Dad) with each side believing their Buddies are the most erudite and the others "Special Ed" Kids. Talk about "The Choir".

It is Silly and untrue for Anyone to state that they feel Ashamed for anyone else. They simply disagree with your view and want to make it seem unworthy of consideration. It is, however, a common trait of the Left. They seem obsessed with Heart-Wrenching apologies for Americans Past and Present whom they consider lesser Human Beings. They're still Apologizing for things America did a Hundred years back, as if they had any right to apologize for decisions made by others in a different time without having faced the same thing themselves, but then that plays into another common trait among Liberals and that is their obsession with "Feelings" as opposed to Actions.

Although I have Always been a Good Guest in Mexico and any other Foreign Country that I've been in, Like Dennis, I am Always proud to be a citizen of the greatest Country on the face of the Earth, the U.S.A. Like any country we have made errors in the past, but we truly have been "The Light of the World". We literally SAVED the Free world by defeating the Fascist powers in WWII and we have since fought the World over in defense of freedom rather than personal enrichment.

Bruce R Leech - 10-18-2006 at 10:12 AM

Viva la revolution

oxxo - 10-18-2006 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Although I have Always been a Good Guest in Mexico

Is this the same Mr. Bill M who uses his high powered VHF from his home in Puercocitos in violation of Mexican law, US law, and International law? Oh I know, everbody else does it so it is okay for me to do it. You 'da man, MrBillM! :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 10-18-2006 at 10:31 AM

Wow oxxo you really know how to slam dunk a thread and a person. if you have a personal problem with some one why don't you u2u them. I hope you have never done anything wrong in your life and if so I hope someone doesn't post it on the INTERNET :lol:

0xx0

Skeet/Loreto - 10-18-2006 at 10:51 AM

Remember "Those who live in glass Houses should not throw Stones"

Your words show a Lack of Character more commonly referred to as a "Snitch".

Those who cut and run live in fear. There is nothing to fear.

Lee - 10-18-2006 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie

I sold out and moved back to the US three years ago--Hated to do it after over 40 years but it is a wise man cuts his odds whenever he can.

I have no idea how those who waited so long can cut their loses..

Bernie: I know you had reasons for selling out. Wise Nomads should cut their odds and run too?

I think there are more people living in fear in the US than down South. I recognize that revolution is always a possibility in Mexico. There may even be instances where ejido have been taken advantage of. For the most part, that isn't happening.

I don't think those still wandering South are living in fear.

I think there are some who fear terrorists, bandidos, revolution, losing what they have, being overun by the have-nots, and the list goes on. Let it go!

Come back to Baja, Bernie. It's safe, beautiful and good. It beats the heck out of SD, and much of California. There is nothing to fear down here. (Stop reading the papers.)

:cool:

P.S. By the way, people, the Revolution WILL be televised.

oxxo - 10-18-2006 at 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Remember "Those who live in glass Houses should not throw Stones"

Your words show a Lack of Character more commonly referred to as a "Snitch".

Nope didn't snitch, MrBillM posted it on this Board a couple of months ago, you can read it for yourself. And MrBillM is the one in a glass house throwing stones. He can broadcast on his VHF to his hearts content as far as I'm concerned, but it is illegal and he admitted that he knows it is on this Board. Have I ever done anything "illegal"? Yup, for example, ran a stopsign when I could see a half mile down the road in both directions that there was nobody coming. I know I have broken the law a bunch of times and didn't even know it. I fess up and I don't profess to ALWAYS be the perfect citizen in Mexico.

Hey Lee!

Baja Bernie - 10-18-2006 at 11:30 AM

I sold my home in Baja that definitely does not mean that I have left Baja. I make it down there about every two weeks to visit with my friends and see what is happening where my heart lives. The last story in my last book on Baja is about our last trip to Cabo in May of 2006 where we celebrated our 50th much as we had over 17 of our previous anniversary's.

No, my friend I will never forget nor fail to visit the country that I have been kicking around in for over 45 years.

I do know it is against the law, and most of them I have obeyed, but I have arranged to have my ashes cast into the Pacific in front of my home of so many years in La Salina. Do you suppose that is because I have given up on Baja?

Don't really want to be around when some of you folks start writing about this bit of paradise when you pass your 50th or 60th birthdays--BUT-- would really love to be able to take a peek at what you are saying then.

And now you guys have Commader Marcos---I never expected him to make the jump from down south to Baja Sur.

History does have a nasty way of repeating itself. That is why it should really be taught in schools--to be used as a sort of road map that can, at least, direct the younger follks around the quicksand and the swamps or even the soft sand of Baja.

Lee - 10-18-2006 at 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Baja Bernie

I sold out and moved back to the US three years ago--Hated to do it after over 40 years but it is a wise man cuts his odds whenever he can.

I have no idea how those who waited so long can cut their loses..

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie

And now you guys have Commader Marcos---I never expected him to make the jump from down south to Baja Sur.

When I read how ''a wise man cuts his odds'', I think your saying that odds are better outside Baja? Investment wise? Maybe another situation like homes being taken by the government? Who are ''those who waited so long?''

I have respect for Commandante Marcos. Maybe his presentation needs work.

Revolution is sometimes revolution of the soul, the corazon.

I expect positive outcomes in the next 10-20 years down South. Boomers will see to that.

:coolup:

What A Crock !!

MrBillM - 10-18-2006 at 03:42 PM

OXXO the Munificent hands forward his assessment of GOOD Citizenship (or Visitorship, as the case may be) with an irrelevent assessment of character assayed by the degree to which one follows trivial and meaningless citations:

"Nope didn't snitch, MrBillM posted it on this Board a couple of months ago, you can read it for yourself. And MrBillM is the one in a glass house throwing stones. He can broadcast on his VHF to his hearts content as far as I'm concerned, but it is illegal and he admitted that he knows it is on this Board. Have I ever done anything "illegal"? Yup, for example, ran a stopsign when I could see a half mile down the road in both directions that there was nobody coming. I know I have broken the law a bunch of times and didn't even know it. I fess up and I don't profess to ALWAYS be the perfect citizen in Mexico".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not an Oxymarooon (no offense) to consider myself a GOOD (not perfect all the time as Oxxo misstates) citizen while having committed the grevious Offense of operating a Marine VHF Radio at NORMAL power (along with probably 90 % of the residents, including Mexicanos in this area). Coming up with that bit of pitiful trivia is clear evidence that Ox is totally bereft of logical arguments.

I'll match my almost Fifty years of travel and residency in Baja with anyone in terms of Gracious behavior. If using a VHF radio is my cross to bear, I shall do it without Shame. I will be sure to pass on to others that they have no claim to goodness of any degree if they have used a VHF Radio illegally or some other such disgraceful exhibition of trivial lawlessness.

You're going to have to do better than that, Ox.

Meanwhile, I'm here working and listening to those SINNERS among my neighbors yacking on Channel 69.

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by MrBillM]

DENNIS - 10-18-2006 at 03:54 PM

Bernie ... Hey, Bernie ... What have you done?

You have created the thread that wouldn't die.

David K - 10-18-2006 at 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Although I have Always been a Good Guest in Mexico

Where is PUERCOCITOS? Oh, I get it... Puerco (as in 'pig').
I guess he couldn't make a funny name from Laguna Percebu?

Haven't I convinced you guys that Baja Nomad is far better a place to make friends? Bernie, is this your fault? Does Uncle Skeet need to take some Nomads out to the shed for a whoopin'? :lol:

David K/Dennis

Baja Bernie - 10-19-2006 at 09:26 AM

I suppose you could say it is all my fault because I did express my concerns about Mexico, Baja, and fellow Nomads.

I am always amazed how threads morph into something entirely different as they wander through various minds.

Oh! my concerns were slightly abated with the reactions to the finalization of the Mexican elections. BUT, then they increased with the advent of Commander Marcos into Baja. It is amazing to me how he zooms in, stirs the pot, and wanders off. Some folks liken him to Che Guevara and many glorify him in much the same manner. My opinion, he will not be good for the Mexican citizens who call Baja home and that makes me sad.

Is it my imagination or did he lay low as long as he thought ALMO had a chance to win and then sprang back into stirring the pot when that didn't work, for whatever label anyone would wish to put on the opposition, in Mexico. I will not put a label to them because then all people who read this will see is the label.

And, besides, Labels suck!

Label me GUILTY!

DENNIS - 10-19-2006 at 10:44 AM

You're right Bernie....

That Marcos guy is a pot stirrer. Unfortunatly, he is also a sacred cow who is excercising his rights in a so-called democracy. Do away with him and the radical left has a martyr. Kinda like Bin Ladin.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-19-2006 at 11:31 AM

Uncle Skeet? GrandPa Skeet
In all my many years of living in Baja Sur, I never lived in Fear from the Mexicanos. I had learned early in Life, after getting caught "Joy Riding in other Folks Cars, not to Lie, Cheat, Nor Steal.
I learned Humility, after winning 50 out of 53 Boxing Matches when I thougth I could Whip anyone around_ Finding out from a Skinny little Indian Kid, named Herschal Acton, in Keyes Oklahoma, whp proceeded to "Walk up one Side and Down the Other , whuppin my Ass along the Way.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-19-2006 at 11:42 AM

Hit the wrong Key;

Sub- Commander Marcos will not Succeed in Baja because the People of Baja will not let Him!!
The only People I was concerned about in all my years were the 'Ugly Americans" who came to Loreto and tried to impress the Locals with Their Money, Large Houses, Buzzing Airplanes, and Fast Boats, never learning the Ways of the People only thinking of Themselves.
I chose not to Live among Gangsters, Dope Addicts, Dangerous Pilots,Idiot Drivers and Such. I did not Cut my Losses! I had no Losses in Baja only Gains!
I strongly suggest some of you start thinking about the People of Baja instead of you small little Worlds of IPod, Gameboys, Fast Cars, Slow women, Dope, and taking your Clothes off in Public,!!

Uncle Skeet or Better Anon The Preacher

DENNIS - 10-19-2006 at 11:44 AM

Who's taking their clothes off in public? When? Where?

DENNIS - 10-19-2006 at 11:52 AM

And "slow women" ?
Jeezo.... All of my life I've been sniffing around for Fast Women.
Where did I go wrong?

In defense of Cmdr. Marcos

Lee - 10-19-2006 at 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Hit the wrong Key;

Sub- Commander Marcos will not Succeed in Baja because the People of Baja will not let Him!!
Uncle Skeet or Better Anon The Preacher

Marcos is but one voice of the poor and uneducated. He is not an evil man.

He does not believe that corporate money represents the ejido or have their interests at heart.

If you get past some of his rhetoric, you'll read that he wants the people -- all the people -- to benefit at the same time the corporations are profiting.

I don't think his intent is to throw all foreigners out of Mexico.

His is a voice speaking for the people in the face of a greedy, corrupt and elitist government that cares little for the poor and uneducated.

Respectfully submitted,

Viva la Causa, Viva La Raza!

:cool:

Paula - 10-19-2006 at 09:43 PM

Thank you, Lee, for your rational, reasonable point of view.

Dennis, Sub-comandante Marcos and bin Laden really are not "kinda" alike, and this sort of grouping together of people and concepts does not further clear thinking or rational dialogue.

DENNIS - 10-20-2006 at 07:20 AM

Thanks Paula ----

I only compared the two in a reference to martyrdom. Alive, they are who they are. Dead by the hand of another, they are martyrs. Im not trying to point out any other similiarities.

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