BajaNomad - Does "Global Warming" affect Baja?

Dogs, 9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed. There are still no glaciers in Venezuela either.
How is Al doing, still getting rich off his scare tactics?

There you go again!

:lol:

4x4abc - 3-13-2016 at 07:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Dogs, 9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed. There are still no glaciers in Venezuela either.
How is Al doing, still getting rich off his scare tactics?

There you go again!

:lol:

remember the First Amendment?

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2016 at 08:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Dogs, 9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed. There are still no glaciers in Venezuela either.
How is Al doing, still getting rich off his scare tactics?

There you go again!

:lol:

remember the First Amendment?

Yes, the first amendment gives y'all the right to say really stupid things. Blow on, blowhards!

#FeelTheBern
#MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain
#NeverTrump
#UniteBlue
#LoveWins
#ClimateChangeIsReal

:lol:

Read the Constitution

bajaguy - 3-13-2016 at 08:37 AM

The First Amendment doesn't have anything to do with this crap

David K - 3-13-2016 at 02:47 PM

Just thought I would share a beautiful photo I just saw on Facebook...

LOOK FAMILIAR???

Been in that same spot for over 60 years in photos.

The high tide line has as well.

:lol:

willardguy - 3-13-2016 at 03:02 PM

Dogs, 9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed. There are still no glaciers in Venezuela either.
How is Al doing, still getting rich off his scare tactics?

this from Doug one month ago today.....

"Keep the politics off the main area. Just sayin'."

One Explanation for the Unchanged Level ?

MrBillM - 3-13-2016 at 03:36 PM

Fewer Fish ?

Seriously, though, one advantage to the warning would be...................

NO Polar Bears migrating South ?

Those Bastards are MEAN.

Imagine one of them knocking you off your Jet-Ski.

4x4abc - 3-13-2016 at 06:37 PM

Just thought I would share a beautiful photo I just saw on Facebook...

LOOK FAMILIAR???

Been in that same spot for over 60 years in photos.

The high tide line has as well.

more importantly, David - they are date palms. Meaning Jesuit involvement. If you find a date palm tree in one of Baja's canyons, you can be certain, the Jesuits had been there. Few exceptions with some recent date orchards planted (east of San Ignacio for example)

DavidT - 3-13-2016 at 06:59 PM

The ship can't be sinking, my side just rose 100 feet.

DavidT - 3-13-2016 at 07:15 PM

Flows at the mouth have steadily declined since the beginning of the 20th century, and in most years after 1960 the Colorado River has run dry before reaching the sea.

Look on the bright side, damming and diverting the river saved the palm tree.

4x4abc - 3-13-2016 at 08:50 PM

by the way - "climate"

climate is weather and regional conditions over a very long time
it is always retrospect
we can record it and study how it has likely been in the past
we have a pretty good idea about it's conditions
it is a very complicated field with millions of variables known
and we constantly discover new factors that play a role
new factors that we did not know about a decade a go

weather is the (short term) state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
remember when we did not have the tools of today and someone on the radio predicted rain for tomorrow?
we have gotten a lot better with our short term weather predictions
and sometimes you still wonder when you are soaking wet and they had said Sunshine all day! Right.

Now. To predict (speculate about) the climate of the future is like expert stock market tips. The only certain thing is that it will change.
Yes, we have some scientific tools to make educated guesses. But don't expect much more than from the Farmer's Almanac.

Fun to read. But definitely not something one would want to argue about.
Name calling over water levels that may/or may not rise in 100 years? Give me a break.

And whether the water levels are rising/sinking and temperature are rising/sinking - we will find a solution to live with them when we get there.
We always have.

Look at the Netherlands - the started losing land in the 1500's. Rising sea levels (no jokes about the CO2 levels back then, please) and strong storms had taken almost 2 million acres of land. They started to reclaim their land. Got it back from the sea. Took them 50 years in the 1600's to get back what they had lost. They kept reclaiming until today and added millions of acres.
Yeah, I know, it sucks what governments do with our tax money. Building stupid dikes.

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by 4x4abc]

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by 4x4abc]

wessongroup - 3-13-2016 at 09:44 PM

The "term" Global Warming is an offshoot of "Climate Change" which is what is being discussed ... Change effected by Humans

And those components as described are accurate .. . one thing to remember the "Atmosphere" doesn't get bigger and things are changed within a fix volume by many things and one is the human species ...

And one person's opinion is just that one person, but, if enough agree that the science is correct and they are heads of State's ... change will occur, effective .. an entirely different subject

This from the Netherlands on Climate Change:

Koenders: ‘Climate change threatens our safety’

"Not only does global warming threaten our environment, it also seriously undermines our security,’ foreign minister Bert Koenders said at a meeting of Commonwealth countries in Malta today, just before the international climate conference convenes in Paris. Mr Koenders had been invited to the meeting in connection with the Dutch Presidency of the EU, starting in January.

‘The problem of climate change is broadly acknowledged, but its impact on security is not yet fully recognised,’ the minister said after a meeting with French President François Hollande to discuss climate change and a meeting of small island developing states (SIDS). Mr Koenders believes it is crucial that security implications take centre stage in the climate debate, as climatological changes are often a root cause of dangerous social tensions.

‘Persistent drought, heatwaves, flooding and extreme storms are increasingly contributing to social unrest, migration and conflict,’ he said. ‘So it’s high time that the international community make a habit of looking towards the future, and take timely action against the security impacts of climate change.’

‘On the eve of the negotiations in Paris, it’s clearer than ever how much is at stake,’ the minister said. ‘The international community can no longer leave individual countries to their own devices. Floods, hurricanes and rising sea levels show no respect for international borders. Just as migration, radicalisation and political instability, too, can quickly erupt into international problems.’

Mr Koenders emphasised that the Netherlands will continue to play a leading role at international level. ‘As a particularly vulnerable, low-lying delta country, we understand the problems of climate change better than anyone. We have a great deal of expertise in water management that we’re keen to share with other countries.’

Earlier this month, the Netherlands organised the first Planetary Security Conference at the Peace Palace in The Hague. The conference is to become an annually recurring event underscoring the importance of international collaboration in relation to climate."

https://www.government.nl/topics/climate-change/news/2015/11...

That this man who represents one of many nations that agree that Climate Change is a fact based on the consensus of 90+ % of the world scientists is a FACT

And decisions have been made and/or attempted (Clean Air Act to Reduce Coal Emissions, a no go from the Supreme Court of our Nation, that it didn't take into account the eoconic impact) ...

Well there ya go ... Every one wants everything and no one wants to go back to the horse ... What ya gone do

Lets ask Volkswagen ... et al

This one is going to hurt ... No free lunch in this world ... first law of Thermodynamics or maybe the third :biggrin:

More people ... more of everything and more and more ... infinity plus one ... and ALL that will not have any impact on the planet ... don't thinks so ... as do many others

Good luck on things ... Don't think I'll see it .. or hope not

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by wessongroup]

Dating the Date Palms

MrBillM - 3-13-2016 at 09:47 PM

I wouldn't be so confident on that Jesuit planting business.

After all, the Aliens landed long before the Spaniards.

And, "may" have planted where they inhabited.

At least, it's a theory worthy of consideration.

David K - 3-13-2016 at 10:04 PM

Just thought I would share a beautiful photo I just saw on Facebook...

LOOK FAMILIAR???

Been in that same spot for over 60 years in photos.

The high tide line has as well.

Don't non-Jesuits have the ability to plant a date palm?
My guess the first Rancho el Coyote Mexican ranch owner planted it a hundred or more years ago? Isn't fresh water needed or are these like coconuts and survive in salt water?
Thank you.

4x4abc - 3-13-2016 at 10:57 PM

anyone can plant date palms
other than the local species they don't germinate easily
the sat images don't show many dates at Coyote
date palms like many other palm varieties can tolerate high concentrations of salt water
but they do much better with clean sweet water

introduction time of the date palms to Baja is disputed. No mention in the Jesuit papers. The existence is mentioned though (Baegert)

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by 4x4abc]

bezzell - 3-14-2016 at 12:17 AM

9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed.

Yeeea right ... and the world is flat and everything is under control of a magical sky-daddy!

omfg :no:

Mexitron - 3-14-2016 at 03:24 AM

You see many date palms in wet spots on the peninsula....some not more than 30 yrs old...man, coyotes, and birds can easily spread them. The Medjool Date Palms I've grown from seed have all sprouted quite readily with near 100 percent germination.

David K - 3-14-2016 at 07:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed.

Yeeea right ... and the world is flat and everything is under control of a magical sky-daddy!

omfg :no:

Can you tell me what is the difference in sea level as seen between the photos taken in the 1950's and the photos taken in the 2010's of this same location??? How has the increase you think happened dramatically affected life in Baja (the subject of this thread)?

chuckie - 3-14-2016 at 07:21 AM

Sheeesh.........

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 09:00 AM

calm down, David.

There is nothing much to see.

Here is the official NOAA word: "Records and research show that sea level has been steadily rising at a rate of 0.04 to 0.1 inches per year since 1900. Since 1992, new methods of satellite altimetry (the measurement of elevation or altitude) indicate a rate of rise of 0.12 inches per year. This is a significantly larger rate than the sea-level rise averaged over the last several thousand years."

Translated into English this means that the sophisticated guess is that the sea rose from 1900 to 1992 between 3.68" and 9.2".
We started accurately measuring in 1992 (satellites) and the sea levels have risen since 1992 another 2.88"

None of your Baja palm tree pics will be able to show that minimal rise.

The science prophets think that maybe in the next 100 years the sea levels could rise between 40 cm (15") and 180 cm (71"). Maybe.

If your palm tree is still alive by then it may have wet feet. But by then there might be a hotel in that place - or condos. They enhance nature, I have been told.

wessongroup - 3-14-2016 at 04:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

9 years later the sea level is unchanged and the world hasn't warmed.

Yeeea right ... and the world is flat and everything is under control of a magical sky-daddy!

omfg :no:

Record-Shattering February Warmth Bakes Alaska, Arctic 18°F Above Normal

"How hot was it last month globally? It was so hot that the famed Iditarod sled race in Alaska brought in extra snow from hundreds of miles away by train.

"It was so hot that NASA now reports that last month beat the all-time global record for hottest February by a stunning 0.85°F, when such records are usually measured in hundredths of a degree"

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/03/13/3759569/record-f...

NASA, NOAA Analyses Reveal Record-Shattering Global Warm Temperatures in 2015

http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-noaa-analyses-reveal-...

This would be an example of "Climate Change" as would measured increases of sea level ... as it is all tied together and = our environment

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 3-14-2016 by wessongroup]

David K - 3-14-2016 at 04:36 PM

I am quite calm, as this Chicken Little hysteria doesn't rule my posts...
Thank you, Harald... I don't deny the sea level isn't changing... but just who here isn't getting the fact that 4" of rise over 90 years doesn't change life in Baja or can be seen between photos on the beach taken 60 years apart. In other words, no effect. The difference between high and low tide in the sea (every day) is measured in FEET, after all.

When the salt flats (which are just inches above average high tide) around Baja are covered by the sea daily, then that would an event.

The funnier part is those who think man is so mighty that he can (or should) reverse these natural changes that have been happening since time began. It may not be convenient what Nature does, but the animals that deal with the changes by adapting to them (and not fighting against them) have a better chance at surviving!

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 05:20 PM

"It was so hot that NASA now reports that last month beat the all-time global record for hottest February by a stunning 0.85°F, when such records are usually measured in hundredths of a degree"

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/03/13/3759569/record-f...

NASA, NOAA Analyses Reveal Record-Shattering Global Warm Temperatures in 2015

http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-noaa-analyses-reveal-...

This would be an example of "Climate Change" as would measured increases of sea level ... as it is all tied together and = our environment

Isn't it interesting that these charts always start in the mid 1800's?

That way you don't have to look at the temperatures around 1300 - it was warmer then than today.

So, could it be that some people use scientific findings (nobody is disputing the temp raise here) to spread their agenda? And I have no clue what that agenda could be.

Making you feel guilty has already worked well for the churches though.

bezzell - 3-14-2016 at 05:31 PM

Nobody gives a crap about your crappy photos. They're a joke.
History has shown that time and time again, it's a colossal waste of time to try and introduce you to science. Why would anyone bother ??

Not only is sea level rise real, it's starting to accelerate.
Not only is the globe warming due to human activity, it's starting to accelerate. Civilisation is a heat engine, and there's nothing anyone can do 'bout it.

But no need to panic Bubs .... double-double cheeseburgers will still be available at the drive-thru for a long time yet.

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 06:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

didn't you get the point that pretty much everyone here agrees that it's getting warmer (not much) and that sea levels are rising (0.1" per year)?

And what's wrong with warmer? Isn't that why we love Baja so much?

David's wonderful pictures demonstrate just that - an undisputed sea level rise that is simply not visible at 0.1" a year.

And since you like history and science so much - why not treat David's pictures with the respect that document deserve.

Seems like there is more of a threat to society by loss of respect and kindness than the up and down of oceans.

wessongroup - 3-14-2016 at 06:33 PM

Some just look at the "scientific findings"

Some of which go as far back as 650 million years, in the case of CO2

Another factor to consider in the mix, world population prior to the 20th Century of humans ... this chart below goes back to around 300 ACE ... which should be adequate to see a simple growth rate increase in the human species

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#total

Believe the net increase in human population and our use of natural resources and the results of those "uses" is exactly what is being discussed

As for temp's .... on the planet Historically

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hotte...

[Edited on 3-15-2016 by wessongroup]

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 06:50 PM

cool web site- thank you!

David K - 3-14-2016 at 07:41 PM

The population growth is as natural as a volcanic eruption and the earth has handled both, as we are alive now. Is the higher than last year population a problem you feel a need to solve? I think great minds will continue to solve issues without the need for fear or outlawing childbirth.

bezzell - 3-14-2016 at 09:01 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdbSxyXftc

The population growth is as natural as a volcanic eruption and the earth has handled both, as we are alive now. Is the higher than last year population a problem you feel a need to solve? I think great minds will continue to solve issues without the need for fear or outlawing childbirth.

But of course! 'go forth and multiply' !

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/february-smashe...

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 09:09 PM

did anyone look into the effect of 7 billion people farting?
Why should it only be the cows burping killing the climate?

wessongroup - 3-14-2016 at 09:32 PM

Not sure who is afraid .. I'm not ... nor do I think "geoenginerring" is the solution either ...

That kinda thinking got us to where we® are currently, which i think is a bit silly and not based in facts

We haven't the knowledge nor the means at this time to engineer our "climate" to our® benefit on this planet ... Hence the recommendation from Steven Hawking's to find another planet

About the only thing available at this time ... reduced consumption and good luck with that one ... as the population continues to grow under "un-natural" conditions and extension of the human life span (here longer, more resources) ... I'm not complaining ... never thought I'd live this long :lol:

With our® advances in science we have allowed the human population to grow at a rate which has never been seen in recoded history on this planet

And that growth and longevity just requires MORE of everything with of course a continued waste stream from our lining and using resources to do so

Which includes NAFTA, Global Economy and $15 dollars an hour for minimum wage ... In the United States as somehow as I don't see China, Thailand, and/or SEA raising their wages for their workers to a similar level ... as it wouldn't pencil for anyone in the Global Economy

But, not to worry as either candidate for President say they can fix EVERYTHING ... :biggrin:

Me, I'd rather be where 4x4abc is ... and having a cold beer

[Edited on 3-15-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 3-15-2016 by wessongroup]

David K - 3-14-2016 at 09:55 PM

La Paz would be nice place to live, I can agree with that wesson!

LancairDriver - 3-14-2016 at 10:24 PM

Here's a little world history on climate change by the founder of Greenpeace. I can't wait to be amused watching the Algore followers attempt to trash him. :biggrin:

4x4abc - 3-14-2016 at 11:33 PM

the holocaust reference was a bit strong, but what do you expect from a web site run by Dennis Prager

wessongroup - 3-15-2016 at 05:39 AM

I would agree that name calling isn't need when discussing this subject nor most any other, in most cases :biggrin:

Never involved with this group nor others of this type

As for Mr. Patrick Moore thoughts ... ok, where would all this information be looked up ?...

Would imagine the information would be more than helpful to many nations of the world and the scientific community as it would appear that every one is going in the wrong direction, which is based on flawed and/or incomplete science ... according to the speaker

Those findings which under go "peer review" prior to being accepted by the Scientific community would be interesting to review, perhaps he could give a hint where it can be found

Think its only fair to give Greenpeace's side for balance

Greenpeace Statement On Patrick Moore

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-statement-on-p...

and I never been a fan of Al Gore's either ...

Agree with leave the politics and/or politicians at the door ...

Which would include Lawyers without at least a BS in Natural Science ... I know they can "talk about" anything, by Law ... however, they wrote it :biggrin:

Have a cold one for me ...

Everyone CAN'T be going in the WRONG Direction

MrBillM - 3-15-2016 at 01:20 PM

Since, at any given time, you pass others going the opposite way.

And, most end up at their intended destination.

Speaking of destinations..............it's a sure bet that we'll ALL reach our FINAL destination before we need worry about the coming Inundation.

wessongroup - 3-16-2016 at 03:40 AM

Stand corrected ... on "everyone" ... :biggrin:

Lets just say around 90+ of the scientific community along with a number of Nations around the world

As for Inundation ... Here's some numbers on sea level change from melting ice

Let me begin by saying that I am using the following rough assumptions.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/HannaBerenblit.shtml has a reasonable estimate of the volume of polar ice caps (33 million cubic kilometers)
Ice is about 9% less dense than water (source: wikipedia)
So let’s start.
It was previously computed that 29 quadrillion gallons of water would raise sea level 1 foot. Cool. That’ll never happen, I mean that’s a ton of water right?
Let’s see what the Ice Caps have to say about that.
As stated as an assumption, we will assume 33 million kilometers of frozen ice.
converting that to cubic meters of ice, we get 3.3*10^16 cubic meters of ice.
Now we melt that to WATER, which is 9% less dense
that leaves us with 3.003*10^16 cubic meters of WATER.
Converting cubic meters to gallons (264.1721 gal/cubic meter) gives us 7.933*10^18 gallons of water.
Divide that by the amount of water to raise sea level 1’ (29 quadrillion) gives us 7.933*10^16 / 2.9*10^16 = 273.55476
or about 274’ of raised sea level.

Now, take three case:

1. The Ice caps are all above sea level already, in which case ALL of this water would raise the sea level (answer = 274 feet)

2. The Ice caps are like icebergs, with 90% underwater, already (answer = 27.4 feet)

3. Most likely, a lot but not all ice is above water, call it 50/50 (137 feet)

Case 1 and Case 3 probably drown all of Miami, Manhattan, New Orleans, Netherlands, most of the Caribbean, never mind what it does to the climate and weather.

Case 2 still destroys New Orleans, probably the Netherlands, and probably seriously hurts Manhattan and Miami. If nothing else it is going to mess with the weather to have all that extra water in places like Mexico and Africa, and Southeast Asia.
Oh yeah Southeast Asia probably gets hit pretty hard by Case 1 and Case 3 as well. I wonder what all that water does to the deserts of the Middle east.

Anyway there you go on "inundation"

We are at 643' above mean sea level, currently

4x4abc - 3-16-2016 at 05:20 AM

Ice is about 9% less dense than water (source: wikipedia)

Now we melt that to WATER, which is 9% less dense

interesting science

In any Debate, the Cream rises to the Top..................

MrBillM - 3-16-2016 at 10:36 AM

But, then, S-hit Floats, too.

Speaking of Floating, ANY ice floating on the ocean is displacing its WEIGHT.

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2016 at 11:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM

But, then, S-hit Floats, too.

Mr bile,
chit usually sinks.

I've seen a LOT of it Floating...................

MrBillM - 3-16-2016 at 01:06 PM

Around HERE.

But, THAT does bring up an interesting topic for discussion which would likely have a greater positive effect than what's gone before.

WHAT is it about the composition of Excrement which results in SOME floating while SOME (most ?) sinks ?

Fiber, Fats, Carbs....................OR ?

I have noticed that "Loose" tends to have more float.

Which, of course, makes sense. Less density for a given surface area.

Anyway, it's something worth looking into.

[Edited on 3-16-2016 by MrBillM]

4x4abc - 3-16-2016 at 03:38 PM

floating is usually diet related
however, it can indicate serious diseases when you have ongoing floaters
it could also mean that you are pregnant

motoged - 3-16-2016 at 04:13 PM

floating is usually diet related
however, it can indicate serious diseases when you have ongoing floaters
it could also mean that you are pregnant

Floaters????? ... a "bile" problem ?

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003128.htm

Mr. Bill is looking into the poop concern...:

" Anyway, it's something worth looking into."

[Edited on 3-16-2016 by motoged]

The Perfect Place to Consider Crap ?

MrBillM - 3-16-2016 at 04:20 PM

Having read SO many times comments from SO many people who have said something "tastes" like S-hit, it seems that their dietary knowledge would be invaluable.

AKgringo - 3-16-2016 at 04:41 PM

Well I am glad that someone has the guts to open the 'excrement files'! Personally, I am going to stick with reading tea leaves, but a fecal forecast may be the way to go while divining our future.

I will try to remain open minded, just don't tell me the future stinks!

motoged - 3-16-2016 at 07:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

.... just don't tell me the future stinks!

Okay, I won't ....but will repeat a sig line comment from another Nomad: "The future ain't what it used to be...."

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2016 at 07:57 PM

chitting is probably the one subject all nomads can rightfully claim to be experts.

And the oldest and fattest can claim to be the most experienced.

[Edited on 3-17-2016 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2016 at 08:02 PM

floating is usually diet related
however, it can indicate serious diseases when you have ongoing floaters
it could also mean that you are pregnant

I find that when i am gassy, my chit is more likely to float.
I imagine a stupendous gas bag like yourself has never had a sinker, eh?

wessongroup - 3-16-2016 at 08:13 PM

Comparing human and/or animal waste to water is fun ...

Question ... at what temperature does chit melt :biggrin:

4x4abc - 3-16-2016 at 11:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

floating is usually diet related
however, it can indicate serious diseases when you have ongoing floaters
it could also mean that you are pregnant

I find that when i am gassy, my chit is more likely to float.
I imagine a stupendous gas bag like yourself has never had a sinker, eh?

I have had a lot of stinkers

wessongroup - 3-16-2016 at 11:24 PM

:lol:

TMW - 3-17-2016 at 08:35 AM

Comparing human and/or animal waste to water is fun ...

Question ... at what temperature does chit melt :biggrin:

Chit melts at 167 degrees F. Above that it tends to solidify and get crispy. Source: Johnson and Johnson, 1936 study, diaper facts.

4x4abc - 3-17-2016 at 09:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW