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No Amnesty!

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DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Theres no other logical explanation, unless, the US goverment has politicians as stupid as the ones we have here in Mexico, and we all know thats not true.

Nope........ They're all the same.

Bajafun777 - 5-28-2007 at 07:19 AM

Look, politicians do not care if Amnesty costs a lot. They have us pay the bill and keep finding ways to tax us more. They believe our money is theirs and they can spend it as they please. The illegal immigration costs us a lot and Amnesty will be an immediate cost that we be a bigger burden all at once. I live on the border and our County of Imperial has all of our services pulled to their limits. The Feds are not paying the total cost of controlling the illegal immigration issue and our schools, courts, hospitals, jails, juvenile hall, behavioral health, social services, and our having to increase our communities infrastructure has been a total burden to our County. Nobody wants to see anyone starve, be harmed, or treated unfairly but Mexico's issues can not be pushed totally upon the U.S. I agree as good neighbors we need to assist them in getting more production out of their farming, ranching, manufacturing, scientific development, medical, etc. as a stronger neighbor makes a stronger friend. I like going to Mexico always have even when friends are concerned about the dangers they read are happening in Mexico, tell them the same thing happens here. Nothing will ever be equal or the same between Mexico and the U.S. as the U.S. is such a great strong Country I do not see Mexico ever catching up in my lifetime. I think Americans support Mexico a lot with Tourism, U.S. Aide, Church groups that take missionaries in to help with buildings things in their small communities that need help, and groups like the Baja Nomads that have special place in their hearts for the culture and lifestyle in Mexico. However, as we may visit, may stay part-time, and even may live full time the U.S. we will always be true to. Lastly, on this forum I have read where people ask questions about sometime be ok or legal a lot. I have seen where some old timers in Baja may not have been following the law as it was meant to be in Mexico, but I have always seen where Nomads that know what the law is telling them to correct it and get into compliance with Mexico's law. The readings I have read have never encouraged breaking the law. When I or my family is in Mexico we follow their laws and have all of our paperwork in order, as if your documentation is not right you will kick yourself later. Now, it may be early but upon this writing pop a cold one, eat some french toast using Sammy's recipe, then go for a walk, and as my friend in Mexico says, "No fight, Be Happy."

What's the big deal?

oldhippie - 5-28-2007 at 07:44 AM

Some quick googling and simple arithmetic indicates that 5% of the population is here illegally and the annual cost to the American taxpayer is one half of one percent (0.5%) of what the US Treasury department collects in taxes every year. This whole topic is relatively unimportant, except for the bigotry of sooooo many Americans it demonstrates.

Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

Statute of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Facts open to debate:

number of illegal immigrants is tough to know, let's say 15 million

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html

population of the US: 302 million:

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

15/302*100 = 5% of population illegally here

cost of illegal immigration: 10 billion per year

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

gross taxes collected by treasury (2003):

1,969,648,000,000 (that's close to 2 trillion)

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-128253003.html

10,000,000,000/1,969,648,000,000*100 = 0.5%

On the other hand, there's this:

http://www.costofwar.com/

Lee - 5-28-2007 at 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
Lastly, on this forum I have read where people ask questions about sometime be ok or legal a lot. I have seen where some old timers in Baja may not have been following the law as it was meant to be in Mexico, but I have always seen where Nomads that know what the law is telling them to correct it and get into compliance with Mexico's law. The readings I have read have never encouraged breaking the law. When I or my family is in Mexico we follow their laws and have all of our paperwork in order, as if your documentation is not right you will kick yourself later. Now, it may be early but upon this writing pop a cold one, eat some french toast using Sammy's recipe, then go for a walk, and as my friend in Mexico says, "No fight, Be Happy."

Call it what you want in Baja. There are 2 laws down there: one for Mex, one for Gringoes. If you are a Gringo breaking the law, the law is enforced. If Mex, you might get a pass. Not exactly justice. Is it racism? Or is it just an opportunity for cops to make a little money knowing they can get away with it?

All I'm saying is Gringoes are held to a different standard. And it's not right. I like the part, however, about having a cold one with my french toast.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 08:16 AM

We here have the same problem as does the U.S. government. We talk about immigration till we're blue in the face and come to no viable conclusion.
What will have to be done in order to turn down the heat in the issue is to get rid of the word, "Amnesty." We need another word. It doesn't really matter what word or what it means but, the A word has turned into a challenge to fight. It has become a word which, at once, can start and stop a conversation. The word no longer facilitates discussion. It has taken on the weight of other hot-topic words like, "Genocide."

The new replacement word should be plain and simple, easy to say and understand, like "Surrender." Now, there's a word that clearly defines the inevitible path which America must take to resolve the immigration issue as we know it today.

"Surrender what?" you say.

Well, surrender to the situation that we as citizens and our congress have allowed to fester and grow to unmanagible proportions by turning a blind eye to it in the past. Surrender to a larger power. We have cultivated our own cancer and now its time to go home and get our affairs in order. Learn to live with it.

Does anybody really believe that ten or twenty MILLION undocumented residents are going to pack a duffle bag and return to a home which made them so desperate that they had to leave to begin with? Wait in a virtual line for up to five years before they can legally return to the new life they have built? Pay a five thousand dollar penance for their sinful ways? Go back to their old new life and start cramming for an English and citizenship test?

This will not happen. How could anybody be so naive to believe that it could happen?

There has to be another way. We have to accept what we have done to ourselves and quit trying to turn back time. We have to surrender to the enemy and, like Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
We have succeded in beating ourselves.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 08:18 AM

BF777 --------

I'll take that cold one now. Thanks.

Bajafun777 - 5-28-2007 at 08:41 AM

Well, numbers and stats are what people play with. Do any of you really think that all 302 million pay taxes::look at how many the I.R.S. says is actually paying taxes. I get so tired of the silly disgusting race card and name calling being thrown out when others arguements for an issue are no better than the opposite side of the issue. Thus, I would never call someone a bigot, stupid, or a flaming radical for voicing their opinion. Intolerance??? Did we not allow this amnesty thing for illegal immigrants once already with over what they estimated to be 5 million back during what the 1980s sometime, so when does it end???? Do not do the illegal thing instead do the legal thing, respect our Federal laws!!! If this was about legal immigration, which it is not, this forum issue would have very little in it. The one day of 9/11 cost how much?? So, let's not bring the war in Iraq into this issue as it is already clouded enough. People have a right to voice their concerns on any issue and not be stamped with some stupid name to slam their opinion. The same thing for those with different opinions, thus the old term "Different Strokes for Different Folks." Nobody knows for sure how many people our economy can keep taking in before it starts falling down and God save us if another Depression ever happens again. Our forefathers never could have dreamed this many people in America or our Constitution being pushed and pulled in so many ways but they tried to. Never say never on a strong downturn in our economy and people have a right to be concerned especially if they are paying the bills!!! Now, I have to pop two cold ones, I already took the walk, ate Sammy's french toast recipe and it was great even my wife said so. New call phrase "No Fight, Be Happy." :biggrin:

amir - 5-28-2007 at 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie

Statute of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Oldhippie,
Your writings in this thread show the warmth of your heart, and it warms mine, thank you. This subject of amnesty is a difficult one and it would be so nice if it could be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. There are many other compassionate comments on this thread, too, and I appreciate the frustration everybody is feeling.

What the Lady of Liberty says in the quote above is the American Dream, but times have awakened us to the rude reality of political hypocrisy. Americans, in the eyes of the world, live by double standards. We attack, destroy and kill other nations to foster peace. We stockpile obscene amounts of deadly nuclear weapons yet we forbid anybody else from becoming self-sufficient. We carry a big club around the globe and we overreact when anybody else shows any sign of strength. Tha good 'ol USA would like to dominate the world, financially, militarily, and politically, and this is the folly that it will be her undoing. Superpowers have never lasted very long; if history repeats itself, we are feeling now the pain of these wrong and failed policies.

I don't know what the answer is, but all these issues will eventually come to pass, everything comes to pass. I hope that humanity evolves peacefully and compassionately, and quickly! Like birth, that can be painful, messy, uncomfortable, and sometimes bloody, human consciousness is going through the process of birth now, and these issues that cause so much pain to many are part of the birthing process. I hope that when it's all said and done, that we'll be able to enjoy the healthy baby of true universal brotherhood and forget the pains of the past.

If we applied the principles that founded our great nation, this would be a much more peaceful and harmonious world. Unfortunately, many basic human laws have been hijacked by a few and everybody else suffers in this hypocrisy. All these problems in current events could be very easily resolved if peaceful intents were really there...

--Amir

oldhippie - 5-28-2007 at 09:45 AM

Amir, I'm at a loss for the appropriate words to express what I think about what you just wrote. I've had the exact same thoughts. Exact! And you've expressed them in way I never could.

I'm hopeful for the US though. If we stick to what the writers of the Constitution believed, and the other famous and unique American ideals such as the inscription on the Statute of Liberty written by an American poet in the late 1800s, and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation we'll be OK.

January 2009 is approaching. I can't wait.

Where do you get this s**t?

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
Americans, in the eyes of the world, live by double standards. We attack, destroy and kill other nations to foster peace. We stockpile obscene amounts of deadly nuclear weapons yet we forbid anybody else from becoming self-sufficient. We carry a big club around the globe and we overreact when anybody else shows any sign of strength. Tha good 'ol USA would like to dominate the world, financially, militarily, and politically, and this is the folly that it will be her undoing.

So... The big, bad United States wants to dominate the world, eh? And just who would you support to stop her? Which country/ideology do you admire? Who are your heroes?

I thought all you dinosaurs were dead.

Aparrently, we missed one.

amir - 5-28-2007 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

So... The big, bad United States wants to dominate the world, eh? And just who would you support to stop her? Which country/ideology do you admire? Who are your heroes?

I thought all you dinosaurs were dead.

Aparrently, we missed one.

Dave,
I get all this "s**t" from world news outside the US. I get all this by keeping my eyes and ears open about what is happening in the world, outside of the illusory superiority within US borders. I don't know who to support to stop the self-destruction of a super-power, I think she will self-implode in painful anarchy and revolution. This is what inevitable happens when the smoke and mirrors collapse - people rebel. My heroes have been assassinated or over--powered with propaganda. Dinosaurs might be extinct now, but maybe they also evolved. We can only hope that mentalities like yours also evolve...

--Amir

[Edited on 5-28-2007 by amir]

Well...that narrows it down a bit

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
My heroes have been assassinated or over--powered with propaganda.

Want to be more specific?

And what "world news"?

pargo - 5-28-2007 at 10:51 AM

...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.

That kind of reaction/attitude that you got from Dave (who i respect much)
is exactly what the rest of the world now sees us as...a hard headed, close minded and arrogant nation with no faults of it's own. This, as you say, will ultimately lead to our demise. Great empires eventually fall as wisdom, profundity and sound judgement are often mistaken for weakness but most always prevails in the long run

amir - 5-28-2007 at 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Want to be more specific?

And what "world news"?

Answer to question #1: NO.

Answer to question #2: "World News" means non-US sanctioned, distorted and/or fabricated for the purpose to brainwash the masses. World news is the reality outside the smoke and mirrors of the only superpower on the earth today. World news is what you call dinosaurs.

--Amir

Bajafun777 - 5-28-2007 at 11:07 AM

Pargo and Amir, hate to break the news to you but this Country is not falling to any outside powers, you watch too much T.V. Americans may fuss with other but when messed with you wake a kicka$$ Eagle that knows how to handle any attack (Listen to Toby Keith song on this). Too many people mistake kindness for weakness and that is our problem we want to be mama to everybody. Help those that we can but to those that seek to destroy our way of life like Mr. T use to say, "I Pity The Poor Fool." "No Fight, Be Happy."

pargo - 5-28-2007 at 11:22 AM

you are absolutely right BF777

This country is not and will never fall to an outside power. Too powerful for that but we're not talkin' whose got the biggest gun or the most bombs. Yeah Yeah kickass eagle, stars and stripes, bad ass American and all that stuff. You have proven my point in my humble opinion.....Salud!

Telling

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Want to be more specific?

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
NO

Keeping one's heroes a secret.

Interesting. :rolleyes:

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pargo
...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.

...You are absolutely right BF777...

This must be "everybody's right" day. :rolleyes:

pargo - 5-28-2007 at 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by pargo
...Nuff said....thanks Amir, you are right on.

...You are absolutely right BF777...

This must be "everybody's right" day. :rolleyes:

...you're absolutely right too Dave

. This post was originally a post on amnesty after all so i will now graciously bow out of this one...Later dude!

Skeet/Loreto - 5-28-2007 at 11:49 AM

Amir; I take your words sas that of a COWARD. Why not Post your Experience and Education?? Afraid? I thinkit is IGRNOANCE.
You post so many False Statments about this Great Country that you affear to be an Evil Hater from another Country.
Just as recent as World War 2- Where would Europe be, where would your Universial Feelings Be?
Korea 1950 Where would the South Koreans be?

We gave so many to help our Neighbors, look at France, Germany, England,Korea.

Your words seem to fit those of a Traitor an Evil Minded Person who THINKs he has been done Harm by some American or is it FEAR?

SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR EVIL MINDED WORDS!!!!

Skeet/Loreto - a 76 yearold Korean veteran who could kick your sorry butt- any Day of the week.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 12:04 PM

Glad to see we have all returned to the heart and soul of the political forum, slander, threats and self-righteousness. I love this place.

amir - 5-28-2007 at 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
Pargo and Amir, hate to break the news to you but this Country is not falling to any outside powers, you watch too much T.V. Americans may fuss with other but when messed with you wake a kicka$$ Eagle that knows how to handle any attack (Listen to Toby Keith song on this). Too many people mistake kindness for weakness and that is our problem we want to be mama to everybody. Help those that we can but to those that seek to destroy our way of life like Mr. T use to say, "I Pity The Poor Fool." "No Fight, Be Happy."

I never said that the USA is falling to outside powers, what I did say was that it will "implode", that means from within. And maybe we should stop being everybody's mother; maybe some people don't want to be mothered; maybe the children have grown up on their own and want to go their own way and be free from "parental domination" ... And the Eagle IS a mighty symbol that will survive its sovereignty, hopefully without much fighting and destruction...

--Amir

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 12:12 PM

Amir ---- My turn

Today is just one of a few days whem it's allowable to dig out your old war ribbons and pin them on your hawaiian shirt. It's a reminder to ourselves of what was sacrificed to allow you your opinion and your right to freely express it.
So, go get that cigar box out of the bottom drawer and decorate yourself like you just turned the tide of war.

Oh......You don't have any of those medals or ribbons? That's OK. You can borrow some of mine. Just let me be the one who pins them on.

Al G - 5-28-2007 at 12:22 PM

I deleted my post of anger...I am still angry.
If I want to read the crap Amir posted I would read The Aldzier (sp) newspaper... exact same Anti-American crap everyday.
I am aware of what a minority part of the world thinks.
The a vast part of the world disagrees with you, Amir

Cypress - 5-28-2007 at 12:25 PM

Who has the final word on this issue? The US congress, the president? :lol:

Me?

You?

Looks like the dog is chasing it's tail.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 12:27 PM

Jeezo ....... I forgot what the original issue was.

I can't tell if you're joking or not?

Lee - 5-28-2007 at 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

I think Dave is kidding but I can't tell. Amir, you are on the mark and it's sad that you are. Unfortunately, in some way, we're all in the same boat with the US. It goes down the tubes, we go with it. I'm not sure ''dominate'' is the right word. Maybe a little strong? How about "influence" the world? What country do I admire? How about Canada? When's the last time they were in a freaking war!!!!!! How about any peaceful country out there that doesn't wage war against another country? If that's dinosaur material, count me as one.

And, Old hippie? You're on the mark as well. Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring.

:cool:

Actually, they don't

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
The a vast part of the world disagrees with you, Amir

That's the scary part.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 12:40 PM

Oh crap .......

We're getting mixed signals here. What did I do with my program?

JESSE - 5-28-2007 at 12:53 PM

Funny,

Theres plenty to not like about America if you look for faults, but what is the alternative? China? India? Russia?

Theres also plenty not to like about illegal Mexicans, but what is the alternative? Chinese? Indians? Pakistanis?

Sometimes we just don't look at how good we have it, look at Britain, France, and Germany, all with large muslim migrant communities and REAL friction and mistrust.

[Edited on 5-28-2007 by JESSE]

pargo - 5-28-2007 at 12:55 PM

Look around folks. What Amir is saying is not entirely untrue and i want to believe he does not hate America as some of you quickly concluded. The USA is shooting itself in the foot. We are the biggest but not the only kid on the block anymore(China comes to mind). Our failed foreign, trade and domestic policies and general leadership are leading us down the path of the Romans. I for one appreciate and will never forget all the great sacrifices past generations have made to preserve our blessed freedom. But if we don't evolve with these winds of change blowin round the world, this great nation of ours will surely fall into obscurity. This is of great concern to me. I have kids and they will likely have kids...we need to do the things that will secure a safe and prosperous future for them and for yours...Is that America hating and un patriotic? I think not... but some of you might

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Theres also plenty not to like about illegal Mexicans, but what is the alternative? Chinese? Indians? Pakistanis?

Swedesh co-eds.

JESSE - 5-28-2007 at 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Theres also plenty not to like about illegal Mexicans, but what is the alternative? Chinese? Indians? Pakistanis?

Swedesh co-eds.

Oh your completely wrong, how about Brazilian Samba dancers :lol:

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 01:02 PM

Them too.

Kidding? Think again

Dave - 5-28-2007 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
I think Dave is kidding but I can't tell. Amir, you are on the mark and it's sad that you are. Unfortunately, in some way, we're all in the same boat with the US. It goes down the tubes, we go with it. I'm not sure ''dominate'' is the right word. Maybe a little strong? How about "influence" the world? What country do I admire? How about Canada? When's the last time they were in a freaking war!!!!!! How about any peaceful country out there that doesn't wage war against another country?

I am damned proud of my country's efforts to combat tyranny and to preserve and defend democracy and freedom throughout the world.

Think what the world would be like if we never waged war.

Take all the time you like.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-28-2007 at 01:18 PM

First time I have been Hot since I left the Off-Topic- So Angry I was Left-Footed!

Trying to Help a County were Mothers wrap Bombs around their Children and send them to their Death.!

China, where Millions of People Work with Bent Backs all Day, just to Eat!

Africa where millions are still Starving and being Murdered.

Israel? Palistine? Killings every day!

All of this , of Course caused by This Great Country of Ours?? How Childish of you Amir.
Did you study in Colorado under Ward Churchill?

How Sad you life must be to Labor under such False information about this Great Country

Canada- Canadians are Great People must of the Time, but they have no Iniative to be Better, they are content to live under their Ridge Tax Type Govt.
Mexico? Could 12 Million Illegals be "Wrong" coming to this Great Country of ours to better their Life?? They sure don't go to Canada, Brazil, France, Iran, Africa.

Got any Guts Amir? Give us you Resume, if the Jihads will let you.

Lee - 5-28-2007 at 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Amir; I take your words sas that of a COWARD. Why not Post your Experience and Education?? Afraid? I thinkit is IGRNOANCE.

SHAME ON YOU AND YOUR EVIL MINDED WORDS!!!!

Skeet/Loreto - a 76 yearold Korean veteran who could kick your sorry butt- any Day of the week.

Whoa whoa whoa Skeet!!!!! Easy, man. Nobody likes to think a Nomad is attacking the USA. I'm not reading that here. Amir makes alot of sense to me -- and it's just possible, I'm no more patriotic than him and you. He's just pointing out government policies -- and I don't think you think we have really great policies. This thread started about our policies at the border, and how it's a failed policy.... along with a bunch of other failed policies. More $$$$$$$ to fight in Iraq, build a higher wall to keep Mexicans out... and more political BS answers from both parties? Lord help us all we have marooons at the helm! Think someone took the wrong turn, here.

Yeah we have it good here. Compared to other countries, we're the best, in alot of ways. But compared to what we could be? That's being addressed, too. We could be alot further along than fighting in other parts of the world. Big military, protect our borders but, maybe it's a Catch-22 here -- stay out of the politics of other governments and don't commit our troops to fighting useless wars.

Skeet -- THANK YOU BROTHER for your service, in and out of the military.

:cool:

Cypress - 5-28-2007 at 01:27 PM

Anybody know what the word "illegal' means. :?:

amir - 5-28-2007 at 02:00 PM

I stand corrected. WWII did free Europe from tyranny, and I also failed to ennumerate many other good things that the USA did for the world, with and without wars. I am just very frustrated by the current trend in politics, which is even being reflected by some of the posts in this thread.

And to answer the accusations by other patriots: I VOLUNTEERED to serve in the United States Air Force during the Vietnam War, and was honorably discharged after 4 years of service to my country. And to the one that wanted to pin his ribbons on me, thank you, but I do have my own. I am very proud of all of you that put your lives on the line so I could now have the freedom to express my opinion, however it seems like if my opinion does not agree with yours, then I am vilified and called a coward, a traitor, ignorant and full of crap.

Some wars have been fought for high ideals and benefitted all of humankind. Other wars were/are fought for profit and domination. If peace were profitable, we would wage peace!

Criticism, especially when true, can be very painful. Who likes to hear negative things about the country one loves so much? So I understand your insults. You have fought and won the right to insult those than don't hold your party line. Whether this is right or not, your anger shows. And please, don't fight FOR me any more if you then are going to force me to be like you. And also please don't put words in my mouth.

Skeet, you can keep repeating your insults, that won't make them any truer. My life is not sad; what makes me sad is your attitude.

--Amir

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:05 PM

This is really a bad day for all this nonsense.

Sharksbaja - 5-28-2007 at 03:22 PM

"The new replacement word should be plain and simple, easy to say and understand"

You should be in the media biz. :cool:

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:25 PM

I have a 100% service connected disability for what I can't process in my mind.
How, we here, are unable to talk with each other makes me wonder if I shouldn't be shareing my meds with you guys.
How intolerable some of you sound. How unwilling to try understanding anothers point of view.
I would venture a guess, that if we were all assembled in a beach bar in Mulege, we wouldn't be so mean. We would discuss and that would be it.

What is about anonymity that brings out the worst in people? Is this our true self?

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:28 PM

Thanks Sharky ----

I'm glad somebody read that. I was feeling ignored.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:29 PM

Yes'ir Grover.

The first one's free.

oldhippie - 5-28-2007 at 03:39 PM

Pretty amazing isn't it Amir. You know you're right.

However, I would not draw the conclusion the US is going to implode. What's happening both in world finance and world opinion is that the US is losing influence and other countries are gaining influence. In other words, equality, that's a good thing. Let's hope the next president listens to her generals.

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie

her generals.

Oh God, please not.

Cypress - 5-28-2007 at 03:42 PM

Dennis. That bar on the beach sounds good.

How 'bout Patron's? :spingrin:

One of these days..,. :tumble:

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 03:44 PM

Cypress ----

If I can find my bag, I'll start packin'.

Where did she go, anyway?

Red blooded American and 110% patriot. Next question?

Lee - 5-28-2007 at 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
And to answer the accusations by other patriots: I VOLUNTEERED to serve in the United States Air Force during the Vietnam War, and was honorably discharged after 4 years of service to my country. And to the one that wanted to pin his ribbons on me, thank you, but I do have my own. I am very proud of all of you that put your lives on the line so I could now have the freedom to express my opinion, however it seems like if my opinion does not agree with yours, then I am vilified and called a coward, a traitor, ignorant and full of crap. --Amir

Amir has NOT asked for support but he's got mine 100%.

As for any right wing white extremists out there pretending to be Nomads, your true colors are now in print for everyone to read.

I'm buying you a beer, Amir. Thank you for your posts and words of wisdom.

:cool:

DENNIS - 5-28-2007 at 04:04 PM

Lee -----

Good support for amir. I agree but, do you have any idea what color I am?

fishbuck - 5-28-2007 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Hey Lee , extremists come in all colors including yours.
As for the white thing. Now you're being the racist.
What race is illegal (not legal, criminal) immigrant again? Maybe you can explain that.

amir - 5-28-2007 at 04:23 PM

Thank you, Lee. I like the way your avatar changes with the mood. Thank you also to all the others who can glimpse past their pain.

And in all fairness I also would like to salute with reverence all those who have served in uniform, whether I agree with their political views or not, for they have given so much for the principles they believe in.

In tribute to those who have sacrified their lives in honor of their country, I will now keep quiet and bow out.

--Amir

danaeb - 5-28-2007 at 04:28 PM

They are all races.

From the Pew Research Center and based on Department of Homeland Security statistics and 2005 population surveys:

45% of 'unauthorized migrants' entered the country legally, but have subsequently overstayed their visas (4-6 million)

55% entered the country illegally (5-6 million).

http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf

Skeet/Loreto - 5-28-2007 at 04:30 PM

Amir and Others:
Your Right to Free Speech is also my Right to Free Speech. I feel that your words were False about This Country and "Why it does certain Things"

Let us not be like so many today who Claim Free Speech and then Shout Down those that have the Opposite View.

Why, just Why do your words seem to have so much Hate in your Opinion that this Great Country is so Wrong?

I think it is going to take several more 911's before this Country once again comes together to Protect it's self from being overtaken by the Fanatic Muslims.

I think we need another Harry Truman for President.

Skeet/Loreto

Colors? What colors?

Lee - 5-28-2007 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
[Hey Lee , extremists come in all colors including yours.
As for the white thing. Now you're being the racist.
What race is illegal (not legal, criminal) immigrant again? Maybe you can explain that.

Yeah, well, I don't think there are any people of color out on the border lines with guns. Sorry, but point taken. I can't explain anything except I come from a long line of racists. And I'm not exactly white. Maybe I'm thinking of stereo-types when I see all the flag waving demonstrators (against Mexicans) who happen to be white. It's a class issue, as I see it. White middle class rules Orange County -- not brown, lower class.

Still, I'll still buy you a beer and shake your hand. I might not like your politics but that's OK. In Baja, I forget politics, and, actually feel better about myself.

Can't we all just get along?

P.S. GrassFire, as a group, sucks.

:cool:

Orange County AGAIN ?

MrBillM - 5-28-2007 at 05:15 PM

Anyone who thinks that Orange County is a Bastion of Upper and Middle-Class Whites hasn't been around much.

I would challenge that person (if White) to try to stay alive for a night on the Streets of Santa Ana or Fullerton.

toneart - 5-28-2007 at 05:16 PM

It is difficult to read the opinions expressed here and their emotional charge. It reminds me that people of the world, including the United States, are not coexisting on a very stable planet. It has happened by increments and now we find ourselves up against a critical geopolitical wall.

It makes me sad to see how polarized we, as Americans, have become. I, like most of you Nomads, have lived through quite a lot of history, so I also understand how these opposing
opinions came to be. I try to look at points of view other than my own.

I am appreciative of the people here who keep an open mind and struggle to debate an important issue; immigration. That would be most of you. "Fairness" is the work that comes to mind. You are peeling back the layers of an issue and exposing the core as you see it. Each of those layers contains the stuff that we have been through. Each is colored a bit differently based on our individual experiences.

I don't appreciate the set that resorts to name calling. I do have compassion for them though. I can see how they got that way. I would say that it is human nature to get stuck at a particular place in time and become stultified; frozen, and no longer capable of being objective. Come on! Get up. Find a way, individually and collectively, to blast through that wall and keep moving on. To not do so will render you useless. The world will continue (or not), but while we are here we must participate constructively in these frightening and fascinating times.

Just call us all "politicians" I guess......

Sharksbaja - 5-28-2007 at 10:04 PM

"Charged" is a good way to describe our current mood regarding this important issue.
With that in mind consider the mindset change many have made post 9/11. Even though we never thought our country could be invaded and changed permanently, it happened. Now I hear repeatedly how so many distrust Muslims and the countries they are from. It is surely stereotyping. The people doing this are quite serious. The trust is gone regardless of their good intentions.
I fear the same may be transpiring today with Mexican illegal immigrants and legitimate citizens as well. It is a shame so many folks are now collectively dissing all Mexicans. They say they have no right to carry their home colors and remark about equality and their "right" to be in America.
I don't adhere to this equation and I personally feel they are addressing their plight incorrectly.
I think more understand our situation than let on. Nobody wants to be nose-thumbed by millions of Mexicans but when I saw some demonstrations that's exactly what it felt like.

What solution to our conundrum can be had? What solution will appease all of us on both sides of the border and both sides of the fence?
Many good posts here and together they epitomize our frustration at solving one of the most passionate of problems we've ever faced within our borders. We all will never be able to agree on a solution no matter what is finally done. I too have mixed feelings with regards to the lessons we are learning. It is not a black & white issue. Articulating is very difficult because so many treat it as one.
Why can't we all just get along? Because we are all just selfish humans at heart. Survival is dependant upon that to an extent. "You don't come first, "I do" is really the truth of it.
Take the politics out? How? What a pity so many share the chronic disease of politics. Enough to compromise our love for all of Mexico and it's people and our own Nomad forum.
Think people,......................................................................think!

que?

k1w1 - 5-29-2007 at 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Got any Guts Amir? Give us you Resume, if the Jihads will let you.

wow. such a DOPE.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-29-2007 at 06:04 AM

Kiwi; Dope? Maybe so.

When my Country is Attacked by Words or Actions, I will stand ready to defend it with my Life. I felt that Amir's words were Offensive and out of place on Memorial Day 2007.

When I observe the lack of Respect, Responsibility, Honor, Kindness ,Faith
Deceny Love Common Sense among many of our Youth of today, I do so with a great ache in my Heart for them All.

The DOPE I see is running Rampant in our Society, Children Killing Children in our Schools, no Self-control, only the Idea "If it Feels Good Do it" Culture, Blaming everyone else for our own Short-Comings, Along with"Its America's Fault that Muslim Women are send their Children as Bombs to kill All!
Slugs like IMUS and ROSIE spreading Filth and Lies across the TV.

I feel bad that you have to grow up in such a Culture of Hate. It was not that way when I grew up, where Character was a very Important part of Life whether you were Poor or Rich.
Where a Poor Boy from Texas was able to Work and strive in the Greatest Country that has ever Been!!!

Faith, Hope and Chairty will get you a Happy life.

Hate, DOPE, and self-centered Life will get you unhappiness.

My Experience and Respect for the Mexican People will always be Special to me..

I wish you well in your Growing up. Try to be Happy. All of you!

Skeet/Loreto

oldhippie - 5-29-2007 at 07:00 AM

OK, back to amnesty.

Oldhippie's plan is taking shape:

1. We need to stop breaking up families. Deporting an illegal mother or father who have to leave the rest of the legal family behind because they have no place for them in the other country, let alone themselves, is just plain ugly. It's happening, SHAME on America.

2. We need to stop giving automatic citizenship to childern born in this country to parents who are here illegally. Why do we do that? It doesn't make any sense at all. The fact that we do that is why people come here illegally, have kids, and strain the welfare system.

3. We need to give amnesty to the entire family (parents and childern only) if one of them is here legally, either by birth or legal immigration, and they can prove they are self sufficient and law abiding.

4. We should give amnesty to all elderly people who have no chance of adjusting to a new life if deported. Probably want to include the sick and disabled in that category. I can't imagine deporting someone truly suffering from cancer or some such disease and telling them good luck.

5. Single, healthy people here illegally and young and healthy enough to work should be deported, if you can find them.

As soon as the US puts into place a program to deport people they will go into hiding in the dark. It will be a big cat and mouse game that I personally believe will never work even after a tremendous amount of resources has been spent.

It's better to shine the light of legality and deal with the problem in a humane way.

Those of you who think we can round up 12 million people and deport them are out of your minds.

oldhippie - 5-29-2007 at 07:33 AM

It's odd, I just reasoned from a humane point of view that we should deport people young and healthy enough to work. They're the ones we need to stay.

Hmmmmm

Mexitron - 5-29-2007 at 08:02 AM

Es el verdad Don Gorge.

Same for me with my landscaping business in California. There just wasn't anyone else to do the work. My guys all paid their taxes too...if any of them were illegal they won't get their social security back--a net positive for US citizens. I say "if" they were illegal because the government never said anything otherwise and gladly accepted their tax money.

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 08:03 AM

Seems nobody here wants to distinguish between illegal and legal workforce. The issue now is legality of entry, not anti-immigration. Of course we need an immigrant work force. A legal immigrant work force.
Oldhippie ..... You didn't even mention the border problem. Don't you think the open border has anything to do with the problems we have today?
Or, should we just turn a blind eye to our border, as our government has done, and accomodate everyone who has the stamina to walk across?

If that's the case, I'll walk across too. It would be a lot easier than sitting in a line, choking on exaust fumes while waiting to be humiliated at the gate.
Unfortunatly for me, a US citizen in good standing, if I were caught doing that, I would be in jail and my life would be ruined.

Amnesty is, or was the issue here. Legal immigrants don't need amnesty. Control the border and nobody will need amnesty.

Cypress - 5-29-2007 at 08:10 AM

:bounce:

Yep DENNIS! Somehow the term "illegal" has gotten lost in the shuffle.

oldhippie - 5-29-2007 at 09:35 AM

Dennis,

I was addressing the problem of those already here. Preventing further illegal immigration is another can of worms.

As far as distinguishing between legal and illegal, as I pointed out in a previous post, from first hand experience, I know that getting into this country to work legally is almost impossible for blue collar workers because of the complexity and cost. That alone is the biggest reason why there are so many illegals.

The process itself is a wall to legal immigration. I don't think you would need to build to stop illegal immigration if you make an avenue for legal immigration.

oldhippie - 5-29-2007 at 09:36 AM

last sentence should read:

"I don't think you would need to build a wall to stop illegal immigration if you make an avenue for legal immigration."

Bajafun777 - 5-29-2007 at 09:43 AM

That' s the whole point behind these people thinking they focus on nonesense instead of the Real issue of "illegal immigration", nobody here has said one word against "legal immigration" or disliking the Mexican people. Further, this is also towards all those entering illegally from a number of other Countries. Yes, we have a mess and deals will be made without regard to any of our views on the issue, however "illegal immigration enforcement" and border security will tighten up for everyones well being. Every day at our Calexico border area people are coming in illegally from a number of other Countries besides just Mexico and are being caught. Duly noted before hand that the vast majority are from Mexico, go figure!! Every day illegal immigrants are bringing in numerous pounds of drugs also another illegal offense into our Country are caught. Every day illegal immigrants are caught stealing vehicles and involved in other crimes are caught. Every day illegal immigrants are caught and found to be wanted by the Mexican Authorities for commiting crimes of serious nature in Mexico and they are returned. We do not know anything about all the illegal immigrants coming into this Country folks and they are not all your farm workers, landscrape workers, hotel workers, food workers, or construction workers. That is why we have a process in place called "LEGAL IMMIGRATION" and if followed the system works for everyones well being. Nobody Legally Immigrated can be under paid or mistreated in our United States, as they will be legally here and have all the rights of a U.S. citizen it's in our Constitution. So, Legal Immigration is what makes everyone happy and keeps all of the horror stories you read about from happening. I still believe Bush will get his "Workers Program," this will allow people from Mexico to cross and work without any problems. He has been gathering support for this no matter what anyone thinks on this and no matter what politician are saying. So real easy here "Legal Immigration" good and "Illegal Immigration" bad, wrong, violates the our LAW. Now, is a good time to say "No Fight, Be Happy." Too early to pop a cold one yet, right??

toneart - 5-29-2007 at 10:31 AM

Some really good ideas expressed here! The politicians should read this and then turn it over to the Nomads. We'll draft a consensus bill. We'll get er done!

Now....go pop a cold one. We can think and drink at the same time. :spingrin:

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 12:13 PM

POP...........................POP.......................... POP

Never too early.

What guest workers?

Lee - 5-29-2007 at 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
That' s the whole point behind these people thinking they focus on nonesense instead of the Real issue of "illegal immigration", nobody here has said one word against "legal immigration" or disliking the Mexican people.

From Grassfire:

"Aggressive deportation. Immediate investment in aggressive effort to deport the 12 million illegal immigrants currently within our borders – if you’re caught, you are sent back.

No benefits. Erect a wall of separation between illegal aliens (and their children) and tax-dollar paid benefits reserved for U.S. citizens and legal aliens. I support H.R. 418 that prohibits illegal aliens from being issued drivers licenses and prevents terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States."

Deport 12 million Mexicans? Right. Does anyone but this group think this is possible? This reads like fear and scarcity mentality. They're storm the gates -- quick, get the guns. Rhetoric and nonsense. Not plausible or real. Grandstanding.

Put a wall between the illegals and their children? OK, now they're REALLY grandstanding, AND picking on kids. Maybe the kids should be thrown in jail too?

Grassfire proposes a WALL OF SHAME. Israel and Germany had walls. Let's see what happens in reality, here.

http://www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?PID=13476250&NI...

Guest Workers? Read this:

http://realtime.com/realtime_news/14904312_recruiters_corrup...

People don't need to post here how much they like Mexicans -- but HATE the ''illegals," the "immigrants," the "aliens." Groups like Grassfire spread fear, hatred and are racially motivated. This group hides behind the ''law,'' and the American flag claiming to protect the American way of life. The BS just piles higher and higher.

Check out Grassfire News and their "Press Releases":

http://grassfire.org/NewsReleases/mainlink.asp

This stuff reads like a Rush Limbaugh show. Anti-liberal, anti-Democrat, and probably pro-right wing, white conservatives and extremists. Wouldn't surprise me if the group pretends to be Christians.

That's my opinion and Grassfire supporters are welcome to their opinions. Just don't write how this group has REAL solutions to REAL problems and really "like" documented Mexicans.

This bunch stands on the other side of the street at demonstrations involving immigration and Mexicans with signs and placards screaming: *******s go home. You're not wanted here. Take your kids too.

Tell me they're addressing illegals only.

There is more than law issues here. And I KNOW there are class as well as racial issues playing out along with the issue of ''illegal immigration."

[Edited on 5-29-2007 by Lee]

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 04:57 PM

"Aggresive deportation"....... What a freakin joke. Put six ICE officers, making ninety thousand dollars each, on a mission to raid a tire shop which employs four illegals and, what is the cost? What does it do to reduce the ranks of the illegals when , while they were rounding up four, four hundred crossed the border?
It's like bailing the Titanic with a shot glass.

Grass on Fire ?

MrBillM - 5-29-2007 at 05:00 PM

It's clear that the Lefty Looney Louts are trying to make Grassfire the De Facto Voice against ILLEGAL Immigration, but I doubt that the Majority of those who oppose ILLEGAL Immigration for a variety of valid reasons have ever even heard of Grassfire. I hadn't heard of them until the Ramos and Campean Tragedy occurred and I still have no idea (and don't care) what they are promoting.

All of this Rabid BS about about Racism is pretty much immaterial and won't have any affect on the Legislation under consideration. After feeling the pulse at home, MOST of the Legislators (especially in the House) will vote one way or another depending on their Constituents feedback and that's how the system should work. Thankfully, this bill is going to see a lot of Sunshine.

HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!

amir - 5-29-2007 at 05:20 PM

"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. Through love of having children, we are going to take over."
- Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets

"They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over... We are here to stay."
- Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council

"The American Southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot."
- Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico

"We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population... I love it. They are chitting in their pants with fear. I love it."
- Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas

"Remember 187 -- proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens -- was the last gasp of white America in California."
- Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party

"We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country... I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, I'm going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back."
- Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor

"California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave."
- Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton.

"We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California."
- Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General

"We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos..."
- Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University

Are these just the words of a few extremists? Consider that we could fill up many pages with such quotes. Also, consider that these are mainstream Mexican leaders.

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir

Like birth, that can be painful, messy, uncomfortable, and sometimes bloody, human consciousness is going through the process of birth now, and these issues that cause so much pain to many are part of the birthing process. I hope that when it's all said and done, that we'll be able to enjoy the healthy baby of true universal brotherhood and forget the pains of the past.

--Amir

Is this what all your above quotes are about?

amir - 5-29-2007 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Is this what all your above quotes are about?

No. My quote above was about hope. The quotes in my last post are about despair. I am just bringing up different sides of this debate. Remember that in previous quotes I also used the words "implode" and "anarchy" and "revolution".

--Amir

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 05:57 PM

Well, despair is the ambiance of the issue, for both sides.
But, tell me.......... How does a foreign body within our society enact a revolution?
What is Anarchy by said group anything but violent riot?
What implosion? Law enforcement?

amir - 5-29-2007 at 06:21 PM

Dennis, I'll be brief here because I have to go to a meeting; I'll elaborate later.

I'm not an expert on revolution, but what these Mexican leaders were screaming here was bloody revolution.

Anarchy is violent. All those paramilitary white supremacist groups are armed to the teeth. There are all kind of hate groups that will look for any excuse to carry out their aggressions. They are just going to start shooting at each other, and then it all snowballs into a huge conflagration. That is why it would be a good idea to find peaceful solutions. However, peace is not profitable... I've elaborated on that earlier in this thread and I was thoroughly chewed out by Skeet and others...

What I mean by implosion is that the fighting will come from within and collapse will be towards the center. Law enforcement would collapse, too - there are a lot of Hispanics in law enforcement, what side would they take? It would all be VERY messy and bloody, that is why I was hoping for a universal brotherhood where fighting and destruction can be avoided...

I wish I had an answer to this profound problem. I'm not a pessimist or a fatalist, but we've got to find peaceful solutions or there's gonna be some kind of revolution...

--Amir

DENNIS - 5-29-2007 at 06:30 PM

OK Amir ......... Hope it's not a La Raza meeting.
Look forward to further discussions. I appreciate your stance[s] on this issue.

The Left and the Right will meet on their long walk back to the Middle

Lee - 5-29-2007 at 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
It's clear that the Lefty Looney Louts are trying to make Grassfire the De Facto Voice against ILLEGAL Immigration, but I doubt that the Majority of those who oppose ILLEGAL Immigration for a variety of valid reasons have ever even heard of Grassfire. I hadn't heard of them until the Ramos and Campean Tragedy occurred and I still have no idea (and don't care) what they are promoting.

All of this Rabid BS about about Racism is pretty much immaterial and won't have any affect on the Legislation under consideration. After feeling the pulse at home, MOST of the Legislators (especially in the House) will vote one way or another depending on their Constituents feedback and that's how the system should work. Thankfully, this bill is going to see a lot of Sunshine.

Grassfire is just one of a hundred sites set up to ''protect'' Americans from Mexicans.

Take your pick: http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=1998

Do a Google on Ramos and Campean and see how many racist (hateful, right wing) sites come up.

Ramos and Campean? ''Two Border Patrol agents were convicted of a variety of crimes after they shot at a suspect who fled from a traffic stop. Agent Jose Alonso Compean fired several shots at the suspect but Agent Ignacio Ramos had better aim. His single shot struck the suspect in the buttocks. Campean picked up his spent shells and neither agent reported the incident.''

If you read enough about what happened here, you see the answer EASILY between the lines -- and the facts, presented by the Department of Justice.

These two agents happen to be Hispanic. So what? Don't know what their problem was: bored, under paid, whatever. They were dirty cops, and dishonest, and after the suspect ran, they shot him, purposely tried to cover it up, WENT BACK TO THE SHOOTING SCENE AND PICKED UP SPENT AMMUNICATION SHELLS to hide the evidence, yada yada yada.

Both these thugs had to take polygraph exams -- and guess what? They failed. They lied to the DOJ! That's enough, by itself, to get into prison. They got 11 years. If they had been white, I'm guessing the outcome might have been different.

For the sake of balance, the below is the conservative side.

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/forum/read.html?id=5186

Get ready. Minutemen in Chicago -- on the job and protecting our borders? From Canadians? Nope. This is scary.

http://minutemenmidwest.com/Search.asp?entryType=Events

Bill writes: "MOST of the Legislators (especially in the House) will vote one way or another depending on their Constituents feedback and that's how the system should work."

These guys vote with whoever is putting money in their campaign bucket. Right wing, left wing, it's all the same.

Lefty louts and right wing hypocrits passing themselves off as Christians. Take your pick. Both Parties are responsible for 12 million Mexicans crossing our borders.

Bill writes: ''All of this Rabid BS about about Racism is pretty much immaterial and won't have any affect on the Legislation under consideration. ''

Guess you're out of touch Bill. You couldn't be more wrong. Actually, if you're writing about Middle America, you might be right. Don't think you're talking about California though. Whites are in a minority in California already. You don't think racism is an issue?

Let the bigger party step forward and take responsibility. The silence is deafening.

oldhippie - 5-29-2007 at 08:47 PM

I like this one:

"California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave."

Duh, OK, we're doing that, we're all moving to Loreto Bay, Cabo, Rocky Point, Bahia Kino, and anyplace else we can get canadians to build authentic mexican abodes in sustainable Mexican deserts where there's no water!!

Well, I moved to Tijuana, but I've never played with a full six pack - una packa six por favor, viva Mexico!

amir - 5-29-2007 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population... I love it.

Lencho, you took too many quotes out of my quotes. It looks in your post that I said that, but I didn't; those words came out of a Hispanic professor of the University of Texas. Here is the full quote:

"We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population... I love it. They are chitting in their pants with fear. I love it."
- Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas

But I agree that there are too many human creatures in some areas of the world and it has the effect of a malignant cancer and some of these bad cells are metastasizing to the USA.

--Amir

Lee - 5-29-2007 at 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie

Well, I moved to Tijuana, but I've never played with a full six pack - una packa six por favor, viva Mexico!

Except for the culture and cost of living, you might as well be living in California when it's Winter. It's different past the 28th Parallel. It REALLY starts as you drop down into Santa Rosalia and see the Sea of Cortez. Go South! Todos needs more OldHipFolks.

:cool:

joel - 5-29-2007 at 11:09 PM

All I can say is that criminalizing drugs and drug trafficking has been such a huge success that I'm sure there are some lessons for immigration that we can draw.... There are no easy solutions but there are some pretty horrible ones and we're well practiced at applying them.

amir - 5-30-2007 at 12:56 AM

Lencho, I like your version of my avatar! Is that really what you see? Or are you just being funny in that twisted way that Nomads can sometimes be? At times I can be pretty "dense", so if I read your comments straight, I can try to get that noise out by redoing the avatar. :no:

On the other hand, if I read between your lines, I can find several layers of very clever sarcasm, in which case I don't really have to redo it, but just laugh with you. :lol:

--Amir

amir

Baja Bernie - 5-30-2007 at 06:48 AM

Let it be confirmed that Lencho is dead serious about this 'clutter'................it really offends him on a level that I am not privy to understand.

I am sure that he could make it 'non-offending' if you ask.

oldhippie - 5-30-2007 at 07:13 AM

Lee,

I know TS well, surfed there for 20 years. Too expensive for me now. A few months ago I stayed with a buddy one night just south of San Pedrito at his beautiful house near what used to be Cyril's. On the way out the dirt road I passed a family of Oaxacans living in a tar paper shack. It's now the land of ricos y esclavos, too bad. Tastefully done though and I wish I was there. I like the campground/trailer park now, it's gone back to nature. Enjoy it while you can. I stayed there, for free, for a week. My buddy was too fussy about which utensiles were appropriate for his teflon pans, if you get my drift, so I bailed out of his place.

amir - 5-30-2007 at 11:48 AM

Okay now, to stay on the subject of this thread: does my avatar get amnesty now? Or is it still illegal? The original drawing was a TIF. I downsized it and saved it as a GIF; no JPEG anywhere in the process. Thanks, Lencho, I appreciate your critical eye... AND your dessicating humor which sometimes has the effect of making me think...

--Amir

amir

Baja Bernie - 5-30-2007 at 06:17 PM

I promised myself to pass on this topic but boy you sure hit the ground running—first posted 5-4-07 and 26 days later you have 87 posts.

Would I be wrong in describing a chiropractor as a manipulator of people.

I really do not feel a need to get back on topic because I can read all that rhetoric whenever I wish at any La Raza site.

I do, however, look forward to your unbiased views of what is wrong with the world.

Sorry! I usually keep my promises—at least the ones that I make to myself.

Now I can go to my corner and listen to my betters—and remain silent!

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 06:57 PM

Hey Bernie -----

This is Fishbucks creation. Amir is just stirring the pot, like me.

Now.. if you could just do something about that stutter

Dave - 5-30-2007 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
The original drawing was a TIF. I downsized it and saved it as a GIF

Yep, that cleaned it right up. Can't you see the difference? :lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by amir
The original drawing was a TIF. I downsized it and saved it as a GIF

Yep, that cleaned it right up. Can't you see the difference? :lol:

fishbuck - 5-30-2007 at 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Hey Bernie -----

This is Fishbucks creation. Amir is just stirring the pot, like me.

Ya, I just threw out some juicy bait to see what I would catch.
There's lots of different kinda fish in these waters.
Some pretty mean ones too! It's been interesting to see all the different directions this has gone in. Very enlightening.
Thanks to everyone for their imput.

Dave - 5-30-2007 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Now.. if you could just do something about that stutter

Huh?

--Larry

You were double posting. I swear I saw it. It can't be the drugs because I quit using LSD, PCP and Peyote last week and the Methadone is strictly for maintenance.

Are you messin' with me?

I still see the little dot.

amir - 5-30-2007 at 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie just a few posts up on this page
"..."
"..."
"..."
Now I can go to my corner and listen to my betters...

Baja Bernie,

You say a lot in your post. I enjoy your writing, and also many of the other Nomad's also. I find this board very stimulating - it hones my thinking and my writing skills. Sometimes I get carried away with my words and it becomes ranting, I know, and I apologize for that. And I DO like to stir the pot! And also I like to throw wood into the fire.

I know nothing about "La Raza", but judging by a couple of comments I read about them in this forum, they are not nice, nor kind; I should find out more so that my "rethoric" doesn't equate me with them, and adjust my articulations accordingly (no pun intended).

When I said a few pages back that I would keep quiet and bow out, I just wanted to disengage with Skeet. I realized that he felt very offended, and I was stirring the pot too much on a special day for many heroes. I gave him space. But, like you, it's hard to stay quiet for very long when there is passion.

And what is REALLY wrong with the world? We don't communicate with each other enough. We don't debate enough. We don't hear well what others are screaming.
That is why I appreciate the function of this forum: It helps bring us closer together.

And self-deprecating humor? I love it!

Thanks again, -- Amir

danaeb - 5-30-2007 at 09:49 PM

If we were each required to make our avatars actual pictures of ourselves, we would be more human to each other. There is something at once enabling in this mode of communication, but also so anoymous. Maybe we should all have nude avatars. That would level the playing field! Skeet?

amir

Baja Bernie - 5-31-2007 at 11:32 AM

Before you begin to throw something or someone else “into the fire” I would humbly suggest that you research those who(m) you quote. I believe that you will find that most of them belong or have belonged to ‘La Raza’. A few of them deny their membership now that they have become ‘mainstream’ politicians. You admitted that you know very little or nothing about that organization or its goals so I would suggest that you at least goggle it.

I will say that even the name La Raza is incorrect because those folks who are members are not even a race as that word is understood.

I, too, enjoy slinging ink at a blank page but I almost always attempt to realize what the spots will eventually say and how they will impact the reader or what they will carry away from the reading, if anything.

Gracias, mi amigo/a de la pluma

The Bill That Might Not BE.

MrBillM - 5-31-2007 at 01:26 PM

A new wrinkle developed yesterday in the ongoing Legislative journey of the Kennedy Illegals "Amnesty" Bill that may doom it before it even comes to a vote.

Due to the Revenue provisions of the Senate Bill regarding Fees, Fines and Back Taxes, the Bill is considered a Revenue Bill. The Constitution provides that all Revenue-raising Bills originate in the House of Representatives. The House Minority says it has members standing in line wanting to be the person credited with killing the Bill based on that arcane provision.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto

All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

pargo - 5-31-2007 at 03:01 PM

Amir,

Geez bro, You're not gettin any love here no matter what. It probably doesn't bother you but if it means anything..i'm with you. you make good sense on many of your points and i don't read you like some here...Salud

The vanishing art of subtlety

Dave - 5-31-2007 at 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Would I be wrong in describing a chiropractor as a manipulator of people.

pargo

Baja Bernie - 5-31-2007 at 04:32 PM

You equate love with agreeing and it ain't necessarily so!

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