BajaNomad - Loreto Bay Foundation

Loreto Bay Foundation

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oldhippie - 7-30-2007 at 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
but i don't begrudge others who like it or want it.

I don't either, in fact, and this is the truth, Jerry, another bajanomad who is pro Loreto Bay, has changed my thinking.

I wish others who have a positive viewpoint of Loreto Bay would provide some facts as to what is really going on in regards to its impact on the environment and the community around it.

The current plans are too grandiose and have a Rube Goldberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg) quality to them. Wind turbines on the west coast, desalination plants, dehumidifiers for drinking water, electric carts for transportation, little revolving doors for your morning doughnuts, re-engineering of what little fresh water supplies there are, making their own bricks, strange construction techniques, etc.

I'll bet you a six-pack that the next plan will be to tow in icebergs for water and cooling.

It's all too big, too complicated, too polluting. Because of my username people sometimes accuse me of smoking wacky tobaccy. But I tell you, these guys are really out there.

[Edited on 7-30-2007 by oldhippie]

[Edited on 7-30-2007 by oldhippie]

Sharksbaja - 7-30-2007 at 12:57 PM

Quote:

I don't either, in fact, and this is the truth, Jerry, another bajanomad who is pro Loreto Bay, has changed my thinking

But not your postings? :?:

Was it that bit about being paid? Do tell.

oldhippie - 7-30-2007 at 01:11 PM

The point I made about being paid to build large professional websites was made because I'm under contract to complete work on time. What I was really saying is that my contractual obligations prohibit me from building websites for free because I don't have the time.

And my postings have changed in nature. I've toned down my emotional personal attacks (they're counter-productive anyway) and am trying my best to convince people that the plans for Loreto Bay do not make sense from an ecological, sociological, nor economical point of view.

flyfishinPam - 7-30-2007 at 05:43 PM

oldhippie,

Your comment on the number of posts to these threads has made me want to post again so that it will appear even higher on the search engines and people can read the truth. I have no trouble and completely understand wanting to be compensated for your work and I am in the same position as are most people. Our family first, donations and pro bono work afterwards. I want to do some pro bono work and so do you, but we are overwhelmed at the scope of the project, but we shuldn't be because there are so many others who also want to do their part. Pretty soon we'll put our heads together and put together and make available an effective public information medium in both languages. My season is winding down and I will have some spare time pretty soon and I'm totally a type "A" so gotta keep busy. My family is in Loreto my friends are here and I do care very much about all these people and those who I do not personally know that live in this nice little town. They give me the motivation to put out the facts and let the people decide, those very people who these great changes will affect.

Pam

oldhippie - 7-30-2007 at 08:13 PM

OK Pam, there's several people now who can collaborate. I can do the complicated programming stuff, file uploads, page templates, any scripting work, database integration. We'll need a site architect to decide upon basic organization, objectives, and content gathering.

The fundamental way to come up high on google is to have citations. Just as a scientific article's worthiness in scientific journals is judged by the number of other vetted articles that reference it, google's basic method is to count how many websites link to the subject website. Of course they've added the capability to buy ranking too. I've heard they even sell words. If used in a search the highest bidder comes up. Imagine that, selling words.

Most search engines can see through meta tag stuffing and other tricks.

I have a police photo of Curt Cobain after he blew his face off with a shot gun. That will get us a lot of links.

jerry - 7-30-2007 at 09:19 PM

wait just a minuite i have never said i was pro Loreto Bay i am neather pro or anti Loreto Bay
i am pro choice of the mexican people to decide what they want its their counrty
let them decide
they decided loreto bay was the way they wanted to go
so now gringos have a choice of loreto bay or another type of housing

jerry - 7-30-2007 at 09:31 PM

it sounds like soon there will be other developments too let competition decide who will survive

Paula - 7-30-2007 at 09:34 PM

Jerry,

Could you tell us which of the Mexican people have decided that Loreto Bay is the way to go? Was it the government, the citizens, the construction workers, the fishermen, the teachers, the rich, the poor, the middle class, the property owners, the renters, the homeless, the elderly-- which Mexicans are you supporting here? Do you think they all share the same opinion?

And would you say that any government, Mexican or other, is always doing the best thing for its citizens?

jerry - 7-30-2007 at 09:40 PM

Paula
the Mexican government made the decision it is sopost to represent all its people
if it dose not then its the people of Mexico that need to correct it not gringo outsiders

gnukid - 7-30-2007 at 11:09 PM

If you follow the logic of Jerry or Dennis et al, one can surmise that is not their place to say what or who should be involved in conservation in Baja, Mexico since as they have made they clear, they have no place in doing so.

On the contrary, many previous and current conservation efforts in Mexico have been headed up by Americans and Canadians at the requests of Mexican conservationists groups. The purchase of Espirtu Santo and Partida islands which where then gifted to the Mexican govt for permanent protection was supported and made possible by Americans. The closure of the La Paz dolphin pens was initiated by Canadians etc... Right now we are worlking to build support to save Balandra.

The need for international assistance and cooperation in Mexico and in particular in Baja is likely required because Baja lacks resources and experience to make political inroads toward successful conservation.

Truly if you pursue the logic and ethics here one might surmise that anyone involved in interrupting or opposing international officially sanctioned conservation efforts may be the ones guilty of adverse politics to the detriment of the Union of Mexico States, which is a crime.

Here are few examples of international cooperation in conservation in Baja.

http://www.getty.edu/conservation/field_projects/baja/index....
http://www.rareconservation.org/blog/?p=46
http://www.bajaex.com/PartnersInConservation.html
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/wholtcamp/wholtcamp100...
http://repositories.cdlib.org/sio/lib/16/

capt. mike - 7-30-2007 at 11:42 PM

"Of course the Mexican government wants it and supports it. Because "it" happens to be American dollars. The current baja tourist developments prove it doesn't go much beyond that."

so what. its their country. Your cries and whines wilder one and old hipster amount to obstreperous pedantism from an outsiders point of view.

capt. mike - 7-30-2007 at 11:47 PM

i'm bored with this thread. ya'all can keep flusterating yourselves into useless abandon.....g-buy. :biggrin:

gnukid - 7-31-2007 at 12:06 AM

Mike

The world is sick and dying. There are few who work effectively for the good of mother earth. Its time for a change. Its time to care about the world and how YOU affect it. If you can contribute in a positive way, great. Any positive action toward sustainable living helps. If you have nothing to contribute you don't have an effect. Action is a powerful thing. Try it.

Crusoe - 7-31-2007 at 07:39 AM

gnukid.......Thank You!...... Amen!... :yes:

++C++

CaboRon - 7-31-2007 at 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Mike

The world is sick and dying. There are few who work effectively for the good of mother earth. Its time for a change. Its time to care about the world and how YOU affect it. If you can contribute in a positive way, great. Any positive action toward sustainable living helps. If you have nothing to contribute you don't have an effect. Action is a powerful thing. Try it.

Thankyou, GAIA needs our help now, Who knows when/where the tipping point lies. - CaboRon

wilderone - 7-31-2007 at 08:59 AM

"they decided loreto bay was the way they wanted to go"
No. Wrong. Incorrect. FONATUR, i.e., John McCarthy, with the blessing of President Fox decided that was the way to go as per their longstanding plans to develop Cancun and Cabo. CANADIANS - outsiders - gringos - are changing the face of Loreto forever, and LB Co. has the arrogance to propose a coastal development plan to the Baja Sur government (which, I would assume has the interests and protection of the LB Villages development at its core).
Mike - you're amused, you're bored? You've picked up your marbles and gone home because you're losing. Everything you say is really just the opposite. "obstreperous pedantism" ?? Maybe YOU consider yourself an outsider - I don't. The Baja peninsula is a spot on our planet that is very special for many reasons - one of which is NOT it's hotels and golf courses. There are many protectors of Baja CA, and I am one. Many of its protectors are American nonprofits. ProPeninsula used to be one, but have now been paid off to look the other way while the coastline of Loreto is destroyed. Many proponents "speak" for development - developers, real estate salespeople, retailers who will make a buck from foreign tourists, tourists who want a place to get drunk and sit on a pretty beach. But who speaks for the other half of the equation? The open space, marine life, the health of the gulf, endemic species of plant life, precious water sources -- all of which deserve a voice - WE are their voice. In the same vein as the battles that are fought in courts of law against the BLM, NPS, and numerous other entities where these battles take place in the US, we fight for the right of the land to be undisturbed and protected from the ravages of humankind - no matter what citizenship. The courts of law are absent here, so we use what is at our disposal to educate, discourage promotion and otherwise turn back the tide. The battle is too important to our earth and the human beings it sustains to let developers have their way for monetary profit. Mike and Jerry - you're both of the "I don't care - let them decide" camp, which does nothing for "them." How do you know what they want? Did you actually ask them? To this day, the Loreto Bay Foundation does not have a Mexican citizen or Loreto citizen on its Board of Advisors. The Loreto Bay Foundations pushes the agenda of the LB Co. onto the citizens of Loreto Bay regardless of whether it's needed, wanted or instead of what they want. It is apparent that they are deciding NOTHING. "Let them decide"???? How can they decide anything when they are left out of the decisionmaking and railroaded by CANADIANS taking over their town, their land and taking it for their own purposes?
I'm totally on board for contributing to the creation and content of something that will reach out to stop the destruction of Baja CA.
"a police photo of Curt Cobain after he blew his face off with a shot gun. That will get us a lot of links" I hope you were kidding.
You can call it obstreperous pedantism or anything else you want, but "sticks and stones ..." Some of us know what's important in life - and what's not. Trying to stop the destruction of another piece of Baja CA is important. If it's not important to you, then get out of the way.

jerry - 7-31-2007 at 10:15 AM

wilderone yes bwana oh protector of baja ca :lol:

yes i have talked to some loreto natives and some of them work for loreto bay say they pay pretty good
others dont seem to care
one said its like fornavee for rich people
no major negative responces except for gringos

i do think that several parcels of land being sold by the native people to developers of major resorts speak for them selves YES THEY WANT DEVELOPMENT so your going to save Mexico from the Mexicans??

i havent been in your or anyone elses way go a head waist your money
just another sheep to fleece

Osprey - 7-31-2007 at 10:39 AM

I'll try to interpret fornavee: INFONAVIT. The rest defies translation.

Progress in Loreto ?

MrBillM - 7-31-2007 at 10:41 AM

Reading about all of the buildup in Loreto makes me think about coming down to take a look.

Have they built any MacDonalds, Arbys, Burger Kings, KFC or Popeyes Chicken restaurants yet ? I'd like to know whether there are any good places to munch out.

toneart - 7-31-2007 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
wilderone yes bwana oh protector of baja ca :lol:

Do you have to be rich to fornavee? If fornavee involves some illicit, erotic activity that would stimulate my pruriant interest, I might just move there. :moon: :wow:

flyfishinPam - 7-31-2007 at 03:54 PM

Oldhippie, wilderone, Don Alley, Paula, backninedan, baja girl, elizabeth, Skeet, et al, "friends of Loreto". I am in the process of setting up a private message board that will be password protected and where we can put our heads together on these matters. Please U2U me with your e-mail address where I can contact you in the near future, to announce plans and instructions on using the message board. I am still in my busy fishing season so I will need two to three weeks, but believe me we're seriously working on this. :dudette:

oldhippie - 7-31-2007 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
I'm interested in the following document written by CIBNOR, is that who you work for?

MIA (Environmental Impact Assessment) Particular for the Desalting Plant for the Residential Tourist Project "Loreto Bay".

No joy, sorry. Got a reply from the Environmental Impact Group which in brief says the study belongs to LBC till it's submitted to SEMARNAT, at which point it will become available to the public. That has not yet occurred, I've asked them to advise me when it does so.

--Larry

[edited to remove direct quotes from message-- on second thought that's probably not kosher.]

[Edited on 7-31-2007 by lencho]

Thanks Larry, let me know when it's available.

Paula - 7-31-2007 at 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
Paula
the Mexican government made the decision it is sopost to represent all its people
if it dose not then its the people of Mexico that need to correct it not gringo outsiders

Jerry,
Can I extrapolate from this post that you might support the impeachment of George Bush?

My apologies to all for being off subject and maybe WAY out of line. But from time to time, nothing satisfies like a good foot sandwich.

motoged - 7-31-2007 at 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"they decided loreto bay was the way they wanted to go"
No. Wrong. Incorrect. FONATUR, i.e., John McCarthy, with the blessing of President Fox decided that was the way to go as per their longstanding plans to develop Cancun and Cabo. CANADIANS - outsiders - gringos - are changing the face of Loreto forever,.

.

Wilderone,
Hhmmm....those Canadians are sneaking in everywhere :spingrin:

Just when you felt comfortable with the good ol' merikun boys, those socialist Canucks sneak in and take over....good thing merikun imperialism isn't tainting Baja :biggrin:

jerry - 8-1-2007 at 08:16 AM

Paula If George W. was to be impeached it wouldnt be by non citizen

wilderone - 8-1-2007 at 08:58 AM

"the Mexican government made the decision it is sopost to represent all its people
if it dose not then its the people of Mexico that need to correct it not gringo outsiders"

From the mouths of babes.

Don Alley - 8-1-2007 at 09:21 AM

The Loreto area is run by foreigners. And why not, they own most of it. Yeah, the Mexican government gets to fix some streets and water/sewer lines, fix up the old Chili Wili site. Sure, they're building a sewage treatment plant at Nopolo but only after Loreto Bay (foreigners) insisted.

Golf courses, 12,000+ homes, hotels, and time shares don't just pop out of the ground like mushrooms because Mexicans-government, people, FONATUR, whatever-say they want it. These are the results of decisions made by folks from the US, Canada, and Europe. What the Mexicans want or think is just a detail, a little bit of red tape to deal with.

oldhippie - 8-1-2007 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
The Loreto area is run by foreigners. And why not, they own most of it. Yeah, the Mexican government gets to fix some streets and water/sewer lines, fix up the old Chili Wili site. Sure, they're building a sewage treatment plant at Nopolo but only after Loreto Bay (foreigners) insisted.

Golf courses, 12,000+ homes, hotels, and time shares don't just pop out of the ground like mushrooms because Mexicans-government, people, FONATUR, whatever-say they want it. These are the results of decisions made by folks from the US, Canada, and Europe. What the Mexicans want or think is just a detail, a little bit of red tape to deal with.

And that's exactly why I think I can do whatever is possible for an individual to do to try and stop the mega-development.

If Loreto was being developed by and for Mexicans, I'd stay out of it.

Paula - 8-1-2007 at 10:05 AM

Jerry, my point above was actually that the US government not representing the will of the American people in Iraq right now, any more than the Mexican government is acting on behalf of most Mexicans in the development of beaches for tourisim. It was an unclear post, and I should have stated it better. Nuff said about this on my part.

jerry - 8-1-2007 at 10:54 AM

paula amen

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