BajaNomad

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Hook - 9-9-2007 at 07:38 PM

Baja Bruno, I keep seeing these references to "Hook" in a couple of your posts and I have not responded to this thread until now. Fact is, I've been in Colorado where the mountains and/or the in-laws pathetic excuses for computers (OMG, some people still use win95 and dial-up!) have prevented me from logging on from before Labor Day until today.

What gives?????

BajaBruno - 9-9-2007 at 07:51 PM

Hook, you have my sincerest apologies. Somehow my foggy brain got Skeet and Hook transposed. I'll change all references immediately.

I think I got them all. Sorry again, Hook.

Bruno

[Edited on 9-10-2007 by BajaBruno]

Hook - 9-9-2007 at 08:03 PM

Thanks, BB.

Man, this thread is "outing" more people than a closet in San Francisco.

I'm guilty as charged, too, and remember all of the strains Lee referenced......but that was long ago. I think the stuff should be legalized due to the hypocrisy of the effects of alcohol but it is NOT good for proper brain function. Also feel the sie-effects are pretty long-lasting.

toneart - 9-9-2007 at 08:17 PM

This debate could go on forever and people will continue to think what they think. My only request at this point is for the people who are still lumping all drugs together, stop it and think! Haven't you learned anything?:?::?:

Skeet---I like all the things in your life that gives you natural highs. That's the best way! :yes:

oldhippie - 9-9-2007 at 08:22 PM

"My only request at this point is for the people who are still lumping all drugs together, stop it"

Why? It's a good buzz.:bounce:

toneart - 9-9-2007 at 08:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
"My only request at this point is for the people who are still lumping all drugs together, stop it"

Why? It's a good buzz.:bounce:


Bon Voyage!

BajaBruno - 9-9-2007 at 08:29 PM

I'm starting to agree with Dennis. :light: :lol:

Bajafun777 - 9-9-2007 at 08:48 PM

Ok, Bajabus now you want me to believe what the Netherlands stats are but wait shall we talk about their child pornography acceptance too??? I think not and what their stats are and what they really are would probably more than over take our stats. We have a tendency to be more show me everything before our survey for stats are complete and the Netherlands does not do the same thing. Just a back choice to try and convince me with here on this subject I definately have first hand knowledge of and Comitan I have 3 youngmen that are all adults and are doing fine thank you. I trusted them but I did my job as a parent and demonstrated the right way to do things. Trusting is one thing but never ever trust that kids can start getting into the wrong crowd and everything will turn out all right, as it won't. What can go wrong will, so prevention at least gives you a chance to stop something from going wrong. I trusted my sons but I still checked on them and always knew who their friends were. I made my house the meeting place where they came after the sporting events or social events. My food costs were definately high as well as my car's gas taking their friends home at night. Their parents knew my wife and me and we made it a to do thing to know the kids parents that came to our house. As I have stated in earlier posts I have worked over 34 years with kids and families, so you do not need to put blinders on and make mistakes others have made but instead learn from them. My sons were all different in school, sports, outside activities and later in career choices. You have got to Love them enough to do whatever and I mean whatever it takes to have them do the right things as kids. I am still involved in their lives but sort of as an outside adviser but they still think my suggestions over before they make their choices. Now, they will come to me with a problem or a life choice because they want to. I do not jump in now unless they ask, however they do still ask for my input as they trust me which is something that you earn.

toneart - 9-9-2007 at 08:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
I'm starting to agree with Dennis. :light: :lol:


Me too! :yawn: Everybody........good night and good luck!

True Story

Sharksbaja - 9-9-2007 at 09:31 PM

Because he is dead this can't harm him. My dad. A brilliant enginee/inventor. Invented such thangs like the "wawa pedal" , wet bike and held patents for dozens of other before-their-time inventions. Excelled at physics, metallurgy, pneumatics and hydraulics. Never killed anything but fish.:D

Prior to WWII he attended Perdue where he garnered a degree. To make money for college he played big-band alto--sax. He smoked joints with Billy Holiday and friends. They made sweet music. After the war he simply forgot about pot and it never really bothered him. Till the day he died he had a martini every night and never condemmed others tending to their own private buzz. A great man indeed.

Thanks for a rehash of much we already know. Boring as it was.;D

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajafun777
I think not and what their stats are and what they really are would probably more than over take our stats. We have a tendency to be more show me everything before our survey for stats are complete and the Netherlands does not do the same thing. .



:?:

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Because he is dead this can't harm him. My dad. A brilliant enginee/inventor. Invented such thangs like the "wawa pedal" , wet bike and held patents for dozens of other before-their-time inventions. Excelled at physics, metallurgy, pneumatics and hydraulics. Never killed anything but fish.:D

Prior to WWII he attended Perdue where he garnered a degree. To make money for college he played big-band alto--sax. He smoked joints with Billy Holiday and friends. They made sweet music. After the war he simply forgot about pot and it never really bothered him. Till the day he died he had a martini every night and never condemmed others tending to their own private buzz. A great man indeed.

Thanks for a rehash of much we already know. Boring as it was.;D


Thanks for sharing this story about your dad.

CaboRon

Skeet/Loreto - 9-10-2007 at 07:09 AM

Bruno and Others

Education and Rehab. has not been that sucessful, why would Legalization make any changes!

My position on those that use Drugs is that is their "Own Free Will and Accord", The result of the use of Drugs i.e. Drunk Drivers killing people. crazed Druggies killing People, Dealers enticing Kids into Drugs, Parents even using Drugs with their Children is the Problem.

I found that you cannot Change People- People have to change within themselves.

Skeet

oldhippie - 9-10-2007 at 07:53 AM

:cool:

MIRROR.gif - 5kB

comitan - 9-10-2007 at 10:24 AM

Make USA infrastructure instead of war, then the young people will have jobs and not be interested in mind bending drugs.

backninedan - 9-10-2007 at 10:47 AM

Sorry Comitan, but a good job has nothing to do with drug use. Who do you thing buys the most cocaine?? It's sure not the guy behind the counter at 7/11. It,s the person with a decent job that can afford it

Make it legal, tax the hell out of it. Take the profit away from drug cartels!!

OK, I'm done with my rant.

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by backninedan
Sorry Comitan, but a good job has nothing to do with drug use. Who do you thing buys the most cocaine?? It's sure not the guy behind the counter at 7/11. It,s the person with a decent job that can afford it

Make it legal, tax the hell out of it. Take the profit away from drug cartels!!

OK, I'm done with my rant.


:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

Hook - 9-10-2007 at 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by backninedan
Sorry Comitan, but a good job has nothing to do with drug use. Who do you thing buys the most cocaine?? It's sure not the guy behind the counter at 7/11. It,s the person with a decent job that can afford it

Make it legal, tax the hell out of it. Take the profit away from drug cartels!!

OK, I'm done with my rant.


And throw some money into an anti-drug ad campaign.

Here's my regular contention............if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.

It's the profit margin on the black market that causes 95% of the problems with drugs. But that isnt to say that regularly taking drugs isnt bad, IMO.

Gnome-ad - 9-10-2007 at 11:34 AM

Just so we get this straight ... in reference to being "outed" ... I am going to confess to my ultimate drug of choice, right here on BajaNomad. It is one I did not mention in my rants (shame? guilt?). I have had an addiction to this substance since my teenage years and have used it in almost every form it is available. I have passed this addiction to my children. It has always been available easily and affordably from “the man” - at the grocery store, the gas station, the convenience store, restaurants. The only place I used to be safe from it was at school, now in their great wisdom many school districts have allowed it to be, not only sold in public schools, but to help sponsor our sorely under-funded educational system.

I have kicked it numerous times in my life only to return to its clutches. I think, oh, I can just have a little, but before I know it I am hooked again from the moment I wake up. When I quit, I go through shakes, headaches, aggressive behavior, apathy, lethargy, practically anarchy!! Most of you have probably guessed my drug of choice now and forever … caffeine! I’d like to have printed that reeeeally big in wiggly letter, but then it might not have been a surprise to those of you who need a mirror. A harmless drug? A drug with no cost to society??? No way. Heart attack, stroke, gall bladder, kidney and liver problems as well as unwarranted feelings of superiority are only a few of the negative impacts on society. But, hey, it’s acceptable socially, practically unacceptable to NOT use it.

I’m so hard core I even like it with additives. The last two weeks before leaving Oregon, when there was more work to do than me to do it, I had two RED BULLs a day(!) to get me through – that is AFTER my double soy vanilla latte in the morning. I fit the “I know it’s bad for me” category, too. I had emergency gall bladder surgery in March after passing five gall stones into my central bile duct and still I like my buzz. And in the hospital they served it to me with my “clear liquid” diet until I reminded them I wasn’t supposed to have it. I’ll bet caffeine has caused more expense to society than marijuana can ever hope to – not that a plant has hopes. But don’t worry, your insurance rates will not climb because of my little foray into the hospital. Without health insurance we had to pay for that ourselves out of our little nest egg. It’s a smaller egg now, but in the long run we still saved money, would have paid more for insurance in the last 20 years than it cost.

I was raised on caffeine and sarcasm. I try and keep my sarcasm under control, but it’s a daily battle. The caffeine? Well, right now I say, “Baby, let the good times roll!”

:bounce:

Cypress - 9-10-2007 at 12:03 PM

This old highway goes on forever and the party never ends.:D

It all depends on your definition of "education".

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 12:05 PM

I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.


80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.

I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? :rolleyes:

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.


80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.

I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? :rolleyes:


I am happy to report that cigarette smokers are only 10%

of California residents.

For me, the quitting point was six years ago, when I
realized I was spending over 2k per year on the dam--d
things.

CaboRon

Barry A. - 9-10-2007 at 12:17 PM

Like CaboRon----------I quit (about 10 years ago)-------mostly because I was upsetting my loved ones; it seemed like a stupid thing to be doing with what I was learning everyday; and it was totally too expensive-------that was the final straw.

Once I made the decision, I quit cold turkey, never ever having another cig (or cigar) to this day.

One of the best decisions of my life, bar none.

Barry

Iflyfish - 9-10-2007 at 01:01 PM

I have followed this dialogue with great interest. I appreciate the civility and clarity of many of the posters. I have learned from the statistics.

It is easy to run for political office on anti vice issues. It is easy to mouth a conservative position, really takes very little nuanced thinking. Ban all vices and lower taxes. Real solutions to complex problems require more and clearer thinking.

My views have been stated already on this topic. Our current strategies have not worked and may even have made things worse. Of this there is no real debate, beside the philosophical one. We have wasted billions of dollars, spent on another "War" with out end or exit strategy. It will take great political integrety and courage to do what is really needed to appropriatly address this important public policy issue. It is very sad to me that we have made choices to squander our wealth in this way, could have funded universal health care and inexpensive public education for all with that money.

Maybe that TV is the most powerful drug of all. The Media is the Message. Our attention span has shrunk and our choices are based upon gut reactions, "I like it" or "I don't like it", TV images bypass our intellect and go directly to the emotional centers where we process on the level of the reptile. Safe/Not Safe, Good/Bad, Pleasure/Pain. Looks good/ Does not look good. Really primitive thinking now in the USofA.

There are real horror stories of people who have ruined their lives and the lives of others because of their addiction to drugs. There are real horror stories of people whose lives have been ruined by the "War on Drugs". Neither of these ad hominum arguments aught to dictate something as complex as our national drug policy. It is however those sentiments that seem to have captured our national dialogue and it is very hard to get beyond it to develop strategies based on research and the very real data that we now posess.

Thanks again Nomads for such an illuminating dialogue.

Iflyfish

p.s. We are fortunate here in Oregon to have a legal Medical Marijuana law that allows this drug to be used by patients for pain management. I have visited a clinic and saw first hand the pain and suffering of those who need this drug for their suffering. With out access to traditional medical care for pain control this law is a godsend for those who can not afford or don't qualify for private medical insurance or for those who the traditional pain medications do not work.

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish


Maybe that TV is the most powerful drug of all.

Thanks again Nomads for such an illuminating dialogue.

Iflyfish

p.s. We are fortunate here in Oregon to have a legal Medical Marijuana law that allows this drug to be used by patients for pain management. I have visited a clinic and saw first hand the pain and suffering of those who need this drug for their suffering. With out access to traditional medical care for pain control this law is a godsend for those who can not afford or don't qualify for private medical insurance or for those who the traditional pain medications do not work.


California also has the "Compassionate Use Act" which has helped thousands of very sick people reduce the suffering of their ailments.

CaboRon





z

[Edited on 9-10-2007 by CaboRon]

BajaBruno - 9-10-2007 at 01:20 PM

Cigarette addiction is a perfect contrast to the theme of this thread.

According to Gallup data, since 1944 the highest rate of cigarette use among adults has been 45% in about 1957. The current rate is 21%, an amazing decline for a highly addictive substance that is still legally obtainable.

Hook is absolutely correct that the entire drop was due to education. Cigarettes have always been available and legal to any adult. Anti-smoking laws only target "where" one can smoke, not whether they could smoke. No one has ever been put in jail for smoking in their own home.

Education and societal pressure--pressure based on education--is what accounts for this drop. Nothing else makes sense.

Hook - 9-10-2007 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.


80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.

I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? :rolleyes:


I cant say where I got this 80% figure that has stuck in my mind but I believe it is one that the Natl Cancer Institute or the Lung Association attributes to smoking rates in the late 40s and early 50s, before research began on the effects of smoking cigarettes.

Has someone determined empirically as to why the drop has occurred? None that I can remember offhand. Certainly the knowledge and personal experiences of lung cancer in many families is a contributor. I would argue that that's a form of education, too. You learn, rather graphically, that smoking is bad.

Of course, those that died learned the lesson the hard way.........

At this point, the incredible level of taxation on cigarettes has to be considered a non-educational deterrent. I believe cigs are about 5.00/pack in some states........that's 150.00/month for the pack-a-day smoker. Then, there's what their health insurance charges them for continued coverage.

Martyman - 9-10-2007 at 01:23 PM

Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Martyman
Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted


So, you are a Medical Doctor liscensed in California ?

How dare you.... I see really sick people every week
...... the medical cannabis is the ONLY thing keeping some of these people alive and able to function in some llimited capacity.

You seem like a very judgemental person.....

And even so, I sincerely hope that marijuana is available to you if you ever have to endure chemotherapy or cronic unending pain.

When will the persecution and judgement stop.?

Have a little compassion,

CaboRon

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Once I made the decision, I quit cold turkey, never ever having another cig (or cigar) to this day.


YES!!

There are decisions and decisions. I suspect that most folks who "quit" smoking, really haven't committed to that decision. Congratulations-- you have any insight as to why you were (uncommonly) able to do that?

--Larry


I had quit smoking many times before.

It wasn't until my doctor explained that in order for the quit to take I would have to make an agreement with myself.

That pledge was that I would NEVER be able to take nicotine again.... No taper off.... No substituting another form of nicotine..... Completely cease smoking...... no just " one a day.".. or " I just had two today."... all of the rationalization had to stop completely.

Many times I have been tempted (I don't think the desire ever stops completely) but have remembered the doctor's admonition......

I am quite frankly afraid that exposure to this deadly smoke will suck me right back in..... and that would be a sad day.

- CaboRon

Martyman - 9-10-2007 at 03:19 PM

Cabo Ron
I'm judgemental?? Read my post again. I think you are the judgemental one. To repeat I said "There are otheres who need it"
You really don't know much about stoner culture so don't comment on it. Are you a liscensed (sic) stoner? Most doctors I know can at least spell.

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Martyman
Cabo Ron
I'm judgemental?? Read my post again. I think you are the judgemental one. To repeat I said "There are otheres who need it"
You really don't know much about stoner culture so don't comment on it. Are you a liscensed (sic) stoner? Most doctors I know can at least spell.


I am not a doctor and neither are you !!!!

Iflyfish - 9-10-2007 at 11:59 PM

Martyman wrote:
"Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted"

It is good to hear that it is that easy where you come from. Here it requires an extensive review of medical records and the cost are much lower where you are. I am pleased to hear that people can get cards for insomnia. I understand that it is effective for this condition. No one in the waiting room while I was there was there for insomnia. Most were there because they had very bad disc surgeries or cancer. I suspect that Marijuana would be much less dangerous than Ambien, the drug that puts you to sleep and then lets you drive your car!

I am also pleased that "stoners, who don't want to get busted are able to obtain immunity from this very dangerous "War on Drugs". They may be able to use their drug of choice and not end up losing their jobs, homes and posessions. I would hope that more "stoners could do that and save us the cost of incarcerating them. In fact I would hope that anyone could obtain such a license to use and then taxt the crap out of it as we do with tobacco and alcohol. We all would win in that scenario, adios drug cartels!, adios confiscation of cars, homes, imprisonment, adios people having to steal for their drugs. Hello people raising their own plants, giving it to friends, welcome open and honest discussion of use and abuse, welcome revenue for education, prevention, and treatment for people who are having problems with it!

Thanks for the info. Maybe the issueing of licenses, like driving privilages is the way to go. It seems so easy as you describe the process.

Ilfyfish

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