BajaNomad - Different prices for non residents

Different prices for non residents

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Lee - 4-26-2008 at 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyC
The guy's reply was that if I went to San Diego that's what I would pay. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

I'd hear this from local MX RE ''Agents" in Todos years ago: ''you'll pay ALOT OF MONEY for a view like this in SoCal.'' And I would respond: yeah I wouldn't be talking to you if this was SoCal.

Isn't the 2 price thing in MX like taxes in the US? The rich pay more than the poor? Seems fair to me -- the rich don't see it that way but so what? I KNOW that's how the MX see it.

The Gull - 4-26-2008 at 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
.........the ones who least need the discount.

So sez you

Angers some seniors so much when they have to change to the national or store brand dog food and forego the crackers.

Don't worry, with the two tier wages in labor unions and the rising level of minimum wage discouraging employers from providing real employment benefits, the US is creating a poor society at the 20-30 age range real fast. The really good news is that their contributions to Social Security are down and that will lead to a collapse of the entitlement system even sooner.

Gee, is having two tier wages just another form of discriminatory pricing, except on the other end - the supply end? The answer is no, it is a benefit to the country, as along as seniors can buy health care at a fraction of or zero cost.

[Edited on 4-26-2008 by The Gull]

Bajagypsy - 4-26-2008 at 08:20 AM

I have to say I personally have never felt that we were being given the special "gringo" price. But then again, we have only been to touristy places like Cabo three times; we tend to stay at smaller places. Are prices more in places like Mulege compared to Asuncion? Yes, but then again, I know here in Canada prices in a place like Banff Nation Park are 20 - 50 times more than the city Calgary that is right beside it. As it has a lot of tourists go through it.

I got sick in Asuncion and Shari took me to the hospital. They were having a big feast in the back. The doctor left the feast gave me a shot, and didn't charge me anything for it. Shari, told me the correct thing to do would be to go to the grocery store and get some pop, chocolate and chips for their feast. I did. When I went back to the hospital latter that day, they had to bring in another doctor, for a second opinion, hooked me up to IV's and such, and again didn't want to charge me anything. We gave them $200 pesos, and thank them. Was it because Shari took me in? I'm not sure, I just know that if the same thing was to happen to me while visiting in the US, it would have cost me a whole lot more.

Mr. Gypsy and I always try to speak in our limited Spanish, and thanks to people like Shari and Juan, they have taught us the correct responses to questions, and how to "Mexicanize" ourselves.

When we travel with just the two of us, of course we tend to tip - spend a bit more. When we travel with all of our kids (4 of them), we tend to budget a bit more. I feel that it all works out in the end. I don’t know any other place where I can feed a family of six for around $400 pesos a week. Here in Canada it is more like $1,500 pesos a week.

Like I said, I have never felt that I was overcharged, and I am always embarrassed when I see people in a grocery store, try to haggle with the prices. It is what it is.

shari - 4-26-2008 at 09:23 AM

It's all apples and oranges....words get in the way sometimes....change the wording of something and even though it's the same thing...the meaning changes...how about if we call the "gringo Prices" just the normal price of things and call the local prices "local discount prices"...that way the gringos won't get mad. Another thought I had about the "no menu" restaurants...at times the prices fluctuate because in a remote village, we get what we get from the trucks that come in and sometimes for example the meat or eggs come in at a way higher price than the week before depending on a variety of things...I have seen prices of certain meals fluctuate for this reason...there is a big difference between carne regional for example (very tough) and US style meat...and Diane is right about the bulk buying...here it is called Abonos where workers, delivery men etc...have a tab paid by the company. very cheap. Another thought is in the construction business...the local mexican price on some jobs may be a bit lower but so is the standard of work...I found out...ya pay for what you get...yes there are guys who can plaster for 40 pesos a meter but you sure can tell the difference between his work and the work of a man who worked in the states who charges more for his labour but turns out gringo style work...very nice...clean complete jobs. So if you want a slapped together job cheap get the local price....if you want pippitysnice( a local word for fancy), get the guy who worked in the US and pay more. A question for you....we post our prices in dollars as most people pay in dollars...so when someone pays us in pesos should we whine and say...oh sir, that will be one thousand and EIGHT TWO PESOS instead of just a thousand??? Wouldn't this be kinda finicky....but according to many posts here fairness is important to you so shouldn't you offer to pay the exchange rate in all fairness???? Do I charge the exchange rate of the day or the day they booked or the day I change the money at the bank er what??? The gas station exchange is 10-1 but the store is 10.50, sometimes 10.70...so what's fair guys???? Should I whine about getting ripped off by gringos who pay us in pesos????? I think not...which is why I repeat..it all works out in the end...you may get charged a couple bucks extra for a nice dinner...but they might bring you a free dessert...or free hospital care the next day....whatever...apples and oranges. Don't sweat the small stuff. If you want things to work like in america..stay there.

The Gull - 4-26-2008 at 10:36 AM

Shari, do you mean that a person living in the paradise of Baja should not become emotionally unwound because of a few pesos?

Also, do you mean that some Americans judge Baja with the wrong concept of what is right?

Whew! I am glad you posted your clear thoughts. I just wonder how many of those ranting and ignorant people will choose to read it and decide on another path. There is always hope.

I'm still filling my gas tank before crossing the border. Maybe I should not be tipping the guy who washes my windows, because after all, he is working for PEMEX and his wages should cover all his tasks. He was probably just doing it to get a rich Gringo to separate from some pesos. I am appalled.

David K - 4-26-2008 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
It's all apples and oranges....words get in the way sometimes....change the wording of something and even though it's the same thing...the meaning changes...how about if we call the "gringo Prices" just the normal price of things and call the local prices "local discount prices"...that way the gringos won't get mad.

Another thought I had about the "no menu" restaurants...at times the prices fluctuate because in a remote village, we get what we get from the trucks that come in and sometimes for example the meat or eggs come in at a way higher price than the week before depending on a variety of things...I have seen prices of certain meals fluctuate for this reason...there is a big difference between carne regional for example (very tough) and US style meat...and Diane is right about the bulk buying...here it is called Abonos where workers, delivery men etc...have a tab paid by the company. very cheap.

Another thought is in the construction business...the local mexican price on some jobs may be a bit lower but so is the standard of work...I found out...ya pay for what you get...yes there are guys who can plaster for 40 pesos a meter but you sure can tell the difference between his work and the work of a man who worked in the states who charges more for his labour but turns out gringo style work...very nice...clean complete jobs. So if you want a slapped together job cheap get the local price....if you want pippitysnice( a local word for fancy), get the guy who worked in the US and pay more.

A question for you....we post our prices in dollars as most people pay in dollars...so when someone pays us in pesos should we whine and say...oh sir, that will be one thousand and EIGHT TWO PESOS instead of just a thousand??? Wouldn't this be kinda finicky....but according to many posts here fairness is important to you so shouldn't you offer to pay the exchange rate in all fairness???? Do I charge the exchange rate of the day or the day they booked or the day I change the money at the bank er what??? The gas station exchange is 10-1 but the store is 10.50, sometimes 10.70...so what's fair guys???? Should I whine about getting ripped off by gringos who pay us in pesos????? I think not...which is why I repeat..it all works out in the end...you may get charged a couple bucks extra for a nice dinner...but they might bring you a free dessert...or free hospital care the next day....whatever...apples and oranges. Don't sweat the small stuff. If you want things to work like in america..stay there.

Well said Shari!

The no menu restaurant we all had dinner at last July was great... We enjoyed it, the food, the hospitality, etc. Prices were fine... and if I paid a few bucks more than a Mexican, big freaking deal! We are the vacationers, we have the ability to travel when the locals must work every day, we can certainly pay 3 dollars more for a big meal...

I only hope they get the crime under control in la frontera so we can visit you and Juan again!

Viva Bahia Asuncion!

shari - 4-26-2008 at 11:25 AM

That's a big 10/4...yup, uh huh, simone, we all must choose our own just paths...funny, I always give the window washers a peso or two and being the true canadian that I am.... find myself wondering how much these guys make in a day....Juan, on the other hand will give them double, triple and sometimes even 10 times as much as I would give them....cause for thought???? uh huh...so ummm is Juan, a mexican...contributing to inflation of window washer prices???? Does he care??? Will he be less generous because it this??? NOTTTTTT...he doesn't do this because he is a rich man throwing money around...he does this out of the goodness of his heart...I have learned an ocean of things from my husband and amigos here about generosity, respect and unconditional help as well as something I am having a hard time putting into words here...something I LOVE about baja and this culture is that everything is not set in stone, prices, menus etc...it is not all laid out for all to have the same rules...as life, each situation is a little different and required different treatment...we should listen to each person and react to each and every situation differently...like the stop signs, some you just sort of slow down and look both ways, some you almost stop, some you have to stop at depending on where they are and the time of day etc....you can still reason with a cop here depending on the circumstance...or solve a problem uniquely...bend and stretch the rules to suit every person and circumstance...get around walls...or over or under...here there is opportunity to be creative...to be personal...each encounter with say...a cashier..is a personal exchange...the kid packing the groceries is your neighbours kid or nephew...we all help each other with what we can...I may only have a peso one day or if I have a pocketful of change I may give him/her 10 pesos...but they will not then EXPECT 10 pesos every time....but are thankful for whatever they get...this culture is very difficult for those of you who want CLEARCUT prices, answers, laws etc...cause life is just simply not like that here...every day is different and we are just happy to wake up to greet the lovely dawn...if baja lovers can somehow observe, learn, shed the USA values when they are here, adjust, understand and accept the cultural differences, their life here would be much more pleasant...fuller...happier...
many of my posts are meant to help visitors to understand a bit more clearly what life for a mexican is about...even though I'm not one yet...I have a mexican daughter, husband, family and friends who I have learned from...many of these cannot express themselves on this board so I try get some of their ideas and values across to you...is this making ANT sense at all???? It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to translate it into english...you have to actually live it to understand and accept and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern values...we aren't in Kansas anymore...

Osprey - 4-26-2008 at 11:48 AM

And may I add: conditions change too. While complaining to my gardener this AM about a jammed up septic pipe he told me his old house just caused him big problems with a broken copper pipe under the slab in his kitchen. Normally not crippling but:
1. Our ejido (59 families) just got paid 7 million dollars for our beach for the new marina -- those he might have normally gone to for plumbing help are now lounging in their hammocks, won't work until the money is gone.
2. The little town is booming and probably another 50 families sold lots to new gringos in the area -- same results.
3. All the people he would normally turn to for help are "working more than they want to" for gringos building new homes here. While he finally found a good sport to do the work for just a few bucks he was shocked by the new high prices of everything involved -- cement, gravel, sand, rebar, pipe, etc. He now thinks there are 3 prices here; one for Mexicans, one for gringos and the other one for him when he's down on his luck.

shari - 4-26-2008 at 12:00 PM

Everything has gone up everywhere...mainly due to gas prices...not just for gringos either....all buiding supplies have gone way up...If someone paid me a bunch of pesos for a lot I probably didn't even know where it was...I'd be chillin in my hammock too!!!! and drinking Coralejo to boot!

TonyC - 4-26-2008 at 12:26 PM

Shari, I don't have a problem paying more for quailty work, and I know the lesson in "you get what you pay for", however to say that because someone who has worked in the states has more skill and or should be pay the going rate in say San Diego is something I can't agree with. In the state part of why you pay more is not indicative that you'll get quailty work. Insurance, taxes and recourse for work not done to your satisfaction are part of the higher cost in California. When I said way to high for the work, I wasn't trying nickle and dime the guy for his work.

I maybe a newbie, but I know when someone's trying to soak me. I tip 10 pesos if the attendent cleans my windshield, 20 if he does the back and my mirrors. Is that to much, or not enough? Educate me, I want to understand.

The High Road

Lee - 4-26-2008 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to translate it into english..you have to actually live it to understand and accept and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern values...we aren't in Kansas anymore...

It's called ''Quanxi'' in China and ''Aloha'' in HI. There's a word for it in the US, just don't know what it is.

Guess shari nailed it, again.

For shari's consideration: half way down the post, I lost my place then got confused. Maybe more paragraphs? Like every 6-8 lines?

Cypress - 4-26-2008 at 01:25 PM

Some folks have way more money than sense.

Usually inherited the money, not the IQ.

They're ripe for the plucking, another term is in more common use. I don't blame the local folks down in Baja for taking advantage of 'em.

Easy pickens!

DianaT - 4-26-2008 at 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob

Quote:

Walked into Second Hand Store in Guerrero Negro and were quoted about four times over the growing rate for a chest of drawers ---- we left and will not go back to that store.

same as it ever was.....the chicks in L.A. wouldn't blink at these prices.... :dudette:

Yea, the going rate was growing big time. :lol:

No problem as there are lots of other stores there. It was not a matter of a few pesos, it was a matter of approximately $300 dollars----so not a matter of "don't" sweat the small stuff. "

Situational and different ----but I still think that people who come down with the attitude of throwing around money just because they are gringos has a condescending attitude behind it.

We pay well for services, and we tip well and as said before, we don't even have a clue how much a taco is at Tres. Hermanos because we don't care. We know it will be a fair price -- besides, the side dishes are always different, so who knows.

But I am just really surprised that anyone would encourage people to charge more just because we are gringos---just do not understand that one at all. And I don't think my "lack of understanding" has anything to do with "culture". I guess it is more a philosophy. I guess I just don't accept Robinhood economics as an absolute. Just because someone has less they somehow DESERVE more pay, gifts, and tips from people who have more?

Sharing and giving because that is what someone wants to do it great, and I am a believer in sharing, but not because someone DESERVES it and expects it, but like most people, it is rather a selfish thing, if one is honest---it feels good to give.

As do many, we have our special projects here that we help support because we want to do so and because we really enjoy what we are doing. And the locals here more often than not refuse monetary assistance for favors, or taking us out to see the sea lions, or lobster fishing, etc., we find ways to make it right.

Even when the local mechanic repaired our friends oil pan for a ridiculously low price, he had real difficulty in accepting a generous tip---he said we were all paying too much and that is after he fed our friend lobster. We were only able to convince him to take the tip when we pointed out that it was Easter and so he should be paid more for working on a holiday. (off topic but the epoxy worked well sealing up the big gash and our friend is still driving around San Diego with the temporary fix)

JMHO
Diane

[Edited on 4-26-2008 by jdtrotter]

bajalou - 4-26-2008 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
A local practice of providing a coupon or local incentive related to the time of year is different than intentionally bilking someone BECAUSE they are a tourist, woman, black, hispanic, tall, short, blind, you get the picture. They can offer the same discount by saying something like "tell 'em KBAT radio sent you in. Or mention the name of the newspaper, radio station etc. with out discriminating due to membership in a perceived class. Because I am white, a tourist, dressed like a foreigner, etc. should not be the basis of a discount.

Let do it to Mexicans here in the US. Lets charge Mexicans more for their food. Then come up with a rationale why we should do that. Get Rush Limbaugh on it, or Bill O'Reilly and then you will really hear why this is patriotic and good for us. I can hear it now "they make more money here than they do at home", "they are paid more here than at home", "they are rich in their own country", "look at that fancy car, they can afford to pay more", "they won't be back around here and may never know". Makes me want to go and extort a Mexican tourist and then justify it to myself.

Man, I am hotter on this than I thought. It really does generate bad feelings.

Iflyfish

I have purchased items such as bread and milk in stores that cater to Mexicans in Southern Calif. and the prices were MUCH higher for the same item than at Lucky's or Vons. And this was at a smaller chain grocery, not a mom and pop place.

So it's obvious to me that it applies where ever you go - charge what you think you can get.

sd - 4-26-2008 at 01:58 PM

bajalou -

At this market, are two groups of people charged different prices for the same items.

NO!

Also, recent price for Oranges in Southern California was 8 lbs for $1.00 at several Mexican owned markets, and $1.00 per lb at Vons.
It certainly pays to shop around. Everyone likes the best value.

DENNIS - 4-26-2008 at 02:08 PM

Those of you who think it's OK to charge different people different prices, how would you feel if they taped over the prices on a gas pump? It's a recurring theme here when a gas station rips someone off but I don't ever remember anyone saying, "Oh well, It's just Mexico and they're allowed to charge anything they want."
Nope....I havn't heard that. Don't suppose I will either.

Capt. George - 4-26-2008 at 03:47 PM

We stupid gringos....was in a small marina side restaurant in La Paz....Marguarita, $9.00 U.S. WHAT?

I asked a regular U.S. Ex-Pat if that was really the going rate..

His answer, "yes, but they're really nice people here"..."Oh, no kidding says I, I'm a nice person too, why are they porking me?" No answer, just turned his head away from me, YEAH RIGHT!

When someone is porkin yer, they're porkin yer....oh, but they need the pesos..yeah, so do I!

Marie-Rose - 4-26-2008 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
That's a big 10/4...yup, uh huh, simone, we all must choose our own just paths...funny, I always give the window washers a peso or two and being the true canadian that I am.... find myself wondering how much these guys make in a day....Juan, on the other hand will give them double, triple and sometimes even 10 times as much as I would give them....cause for thought???? uh huh...so ummm is Juan, a mexican...contributing to inflation of window washer prices???? Does he care??? Will he be less generous because it this??? NOTTTTTT...he doesn't do this because he is a rich man throwing money around...he does this out of the goodness of his heart...I have learned an ocean of things from my husband and amigos here about generosity, respect and unconditional help as well as something I am having a hard time putting into words here...something I LOVE about baja and this culture is that everything is not set in stone, prices, menus etc...it is not all laid out for all to have the same rules...as life, each situation is a little different and required different treatment...we should listen to each person and react to each and every situation differently...like the stop signs, some you just sort of slow down and look both ways, some you almost stop, some you have to stop at depending on where they are and the time of day etc....you can still reason with a cop here depending on the circumstance...or solve a problem uniquely...bend and stretch the rules to suit every person and circumstance...get around walls...or over or under...here there is opportunity to be creative...to be personal...each encounter with say...a cashier..is a personal exchange...the kid packing the groceries is your neighbours kid or nephew...we all help each other with what we can...I may only have a peso one day or if I have a pocketful of change I may give him/her 10 pesos...but they will not then EXPECT 10 pesos every time....but are thankful for whatever they get...this culture is very difficult for those of you who want CLEARCUT prices, answers, laws etc...cause life is just simply not like that here...every day is different and we are just happy to wake up to greet the lovely dawn...if baja lovers can somehow observe, learn, shed the USA values when they are here, adjust, understand and accept the cultural differences,
their life here would be much more pleasant...fuller...happier...
many of my posts are meant to help visitors to understand a bit more clearly what life for a mexican is about...even though I'm not one yet...I have a mexican daughter, husband, family and friends who I have learned from...many of these cannot express themselves on this board so I try get some of their ideas and values across to you...is this making ANT sense at all???? It's like alot of spanish dichos/sayings...there is no clear way to translate it into english...you have to actually live it to understand and accept and appreciate it for what it is....not according to northern values...we aren't in Kansas anymore...

Incredibly well said Shari ( a few more paragraphs would indeed make it easier to read

) So appreciate you trying to get these thoughts across to us. I can sense how emotional it is for you. I know that everytime I leave and get a bigger hug, (this time tears, from Maria and even a hug from Victor Sr!) that I have managed to treat the neighbors and our "workers" fairly. I so know what you mean about the fact that we are so used to always having a "price" for everything... and wanting to know what that is. They are not accustomed to that and I sense quite uncomfortable when I used to ask them "how much" for every little service. Now I pay them what I think is fair... sometimes more and sometimes less, and supplement it with little gifts of "treats" from the city. Seems to be working for us.

Iflyfish - 4-26-2008 at 04:38 PM

I know that Shari is a person of good quality and heart. She and Juan are generous and kind people. Serena is a girl who anyone would be proud to have as a daughter and when kids turn out that well, it says something about the parents.

I appreciate and understand what you are saying "Shari and appreciate it. You are attempting to describe a way of viewing these matters that involves a situational ethic that is foreign to most of us in the US. It really is different in Mexico. I appreciate your sharing your perspective, we are honored to have people on this site who have lived in both cultures and who are willing to share their knowledge, insights and awareness with us. I appreciate the thoughtful responses of people here who are willing to explore and share their points of view with out making the other bad. I believe I did that, made "the other" bad when I started to view these issues from a "moral" perspective. For that I appologize if I offended anyone. It is very difficult to discuss matters like this without bifurcating the world into good/bad. I imagine that there are things about Norte's that drive Mexicans mad, mad because of being raised differently and mad because of the frustration of not understanding.

I am committed to learning and understanding and enjoying myself, my statements reflect and ambivilance between the values that I have been raised with and those I experience in Mexico. I am also learning that there are people who will use situational ethics to abuse and use others and there are those who do so in order to meaningly participate in another culture.

It is hard to describe the cultural bone in our own nose, the culture that we are a part of. It often takes an outsider or someone who has lived in both cultures to provide a clear understanding of what is happening. I feel fortunate indeed to be part of a group and be fiends with some who actually live in Mexico, a country that I love and that has fascinated me for over forty years. I don't think that I will ever fully understand Mexico, I doubt that one can ever fully understand all of the nuances of a country that one is not native to unless you were raised there from a very early age. I know that I love Mexico and genuinely enjoy hanging out with most Mexicans I have run into.

The fuel in Mexico is controled by a goverment monopoly. Everyone is subject to the real feelings of being taken to the cleaners by a monopoly that is extorting. I feel that way about WalMart who pays a wage so low and reduces worker's hours so that they will not have to pay medical benifits which then cause their employees to use the public system that I am subsidizing. I think it is very natural, at least it is for me, raised in the the USofA to bridle at paying higher prices than someone else because of my membership in a group, white, gringo, etc. Those are very natural feelings. I have also been raised in a society that rewards individuality and self expression, not in a society that would behead, hang or enslave me for speaking my mind (unless of course I was a black, a slave etc.) I also believe that Mexicans share those feelings when they too feel they are being ripped off. It does sound from my reading of Shari, Osprey and others that underlying their way of being in this is a sense of trying to do things in a fair way and that they believe that most are trying to do just that. I believe them. I know and have experienced first hand the generosity of Shari and Juan, as others have. Yet I have found myself having very strong feelings about this issue. This says something about me. It says to me that I have not yet come to a full resolve of this issue on an emotional level in myself, though in practice I am probably doing pretty well with it as I gain from the responses of those who I know and have interacted with in Mexican culture. On some levels I feel very at home in Mexico as I did as a child on our farm and as part of a town of 400 people. I grock some of this and don't understand other parts of it.

I know that if I take a posture that I need to learn and understand and that these are differences, and only differences, and that there are wonderful, conscious, conscientious and honest people who are living with a very different way of approaching economic issue then I feel much better about the whole thing. That also leaves for me a place where I can understand that there are also unscrupulous people with out conscience who might be engaged in the same activity. I would imaging that those folks, called sociopaths in the USofA, are probably seen as bad people by Mexicans as well as by Norte's.

This is not a simple matter and I again want to express my appreciation for the depth and attempts at understanding and clarification that I am reading here. We are all in a process of learning, growing, struggling, wiping egg off our faces and I am glad for the opportunity to do that here.

Viva Nomads.

Iflyfish

oxxo - 4-26-2008 at 04:38 PM

Hey, Capt. George, head on over to my boat and I'll fix you a margy on the fantail, for only $4, that is twice as good as anything you can buy at the Dock Cafe. I make them for my Mexican compadres gratis

......oh what the heck, yours will be gratis too! :yes:

Capt. George - 4-26-2008 at 05:28 PM

on my way, ware yo is???

lingililingili - 4-26-2008 at 06:05 PM

Well, here goes my two cents worth:

Having retired from the Home Show business and now having the internet sales going, I can honestly say that I totally dislike people who try to haggle with me. There are three cultures that come to mind in the U.S. that do this. We post our prices because that is what we expect people to pay. I refuse to haggle either with customers or as a customer. Since we have moved to Mexico I do find myself comparing Mexican prices to U.S. prices and usually feel like I am getting a better deal than in the States.

So, is the practice of charging gringos more than locals okay? No, but I don't think that will ever change. If I don't like the price, I just don't buy.

Osprey - 4-26-2008 at 06:30 PM

As we are all learning this gem of a cross-border dilema has many facets. We have been pounding away at some of them -- tiny flat places around the center. Now to the emerald cut; even that is cut in two:

1. The Culteral Chasm and
2. Those cheapskates who would grab a tiny blanket off the cold, blue corpse of a Peruvian baby because it was authentic and unattended.

Second group first:

Piojo

I’m not too proud to tell you that I use a thesaurus. I write short stories, books and articles for magazines, ezines, etc. With Google, Roget and Brittanica at hand you would think I could find the perfect word most of the time. Not this time. The English word has not yet been coined for this particular kind of character trait.
The word I have been searching for needs to describe the mind set displayed by those adults who must have a bargain in everything they purchase. Greed and Avarice describe another condition; those who must have wealth, those who are only happy when they have more than they need, more than they could possibly use, eat, drink, consume, utilize, enjoy.
Cheap doesn’t come close. It’s an adjective describing things, not people. A cheapskate is a miser. Stingy means someone who is unwilling to share what he has. Most of the time I hope my articles will not evoke “letters”. This time I’m hoping for letters. I hope I can read them; if there is a proper word out there, it’s in another language and I hope those Jews, Italians, Germans, etc, will get back to me.
It remains a mystery to me that we don’t already have a word close at hand. Surely we recognize the condition; Priceline and lots of other sales gimmicks thrive on the growing phenomenon. On a commercial services level setting your own price, naming the highest price you will pay comes close to the logic: “I’m only satisfied about the price if I think I’ve taken advantage of the seller”. The need to cheat the seller runs so deep that often the value of the thing or service takes a back seat to the necessary huge gap between what the buyer wanted and what these people will pay.

All you proud Anglophiles out there: before you begin to run your laundry list of English words I might have missed, please wait until I define, in broad terms, the characters who demonstrate the condition.
Allow me to eliminate those casual bargain-hunters who don’t fit the pattern. We all like a bargain. Please drop from the list those of us who pay retail most of time but seek out bargains when and where we can.
The millions of people I’m talking about are those who delight in finding an uninformed or distressed seller. These folks are unable to pay the asking price for anything — never have, never will. For example one of them might learn that a boat worth $20,000 on today’s market, in the region of the sale, in the visible and contractual state of condition equal to that value, is being sold by a person in monetary distress. The buyer discovers that for a quick cash sale the seller might accept $10,000. It is at this stage that our guy will offer $5,000. He makes it clear his offer is firm, shows the seller the cash, does not even flinch when the boat sells to another bargain hunter for $8,500.
By way of demonstration let me shine a light on some of my neighbors with the trait. This little scene could happen in any of a dozen or more garages in this little Mexican village. I stop by Fred or Bill’s to say hello, maybe share a beer. Fred is cleaning a gas generator with a solvent and a rag.
I said “New generator?”
“No. No. I bought this about six months ago in Santiago. Some old Mexican codger was sick, his kid got the word around, I went over there, picked this sucker up for $250. The new Hondas in this model are $2,200.”
“Great buy. Just what you needed for down here.”
Fred said “No, I got two others. Bigger, quieter. I’m just saving this one for some time when the storms hit, when the hotels need more juice. I can maybe unload the thing for $1,800 or so. Depends on how bad the storm was, how bad they need it.”
I suppose what sent me looking for the word was my brief encounter with a realty bargain hunter. Lots of gringos stop by my gate to ask directions, ask if I know of any good deals around here on homes or land. They are all looking for a bargain. This particular guy sticks in my mind.

He said he was from Canada, really liked our little village, wanted to buy a lot here, build a house or buy a little Mexican house like mine, fix it up the way I did. He wanted to know about land ownership. I told him there were several 1/4 acre lots in town for about $25,000 or so, some with an ocean view. I explained that the realty purchase process would cost him about $7,000 initially (Mexican purchase agreement, notario fees, honorarios, etc) and about $400 per year for the annual cost to maintain a bank trust. He just shook his head in disbelief, said he wasn’t interested in that kind of deal in Mexico.
Just for fun I told him I had a Mexican pal who had a nice lot with an ocean view, was just tired of the responsibilities, just wanted to dump it, get rid of it. I said “He’ll just sign the deed over to you, be done with it. No money involved. You can have it.”
He said “Do I have to pay fees?”
“Sure, I just told you, around $7,000 to get the bank trust, to know that it’s in trust for 50 years in your name with a Mexican bank, guaranteed by the bank and the government. The trust is renewable so you can pass it on if you like, or sell it, rent it, whatever.”
He said “No, no thanks. I’ll pass. See you later.”
While I was telling this story for months about a guy who was so cheap he wouldn’t take a piece of free land “he’d steal a hot stove, go back for the smoke” kind of guy, I missed the point. Without the distressed or uninformed seller there can be no joy. My joke implied that the seller would be better off without the property. No deal for these folks; no sad and bleeding seller crying in the night at his lose, no joy for my buyer. So, it turns out these folks could find a big gold nugget in a stream, never say a word about it. Pay 10% of the value for a wrist watch they don’t need, will probably never sell, leave the poor seller, the dumb bastard wondering how this slick guy got the better of them — now that’s a story worth the telling.
I asked a couple of my Mexican friends if there might be a word in Spanish for these people. They suggested piojoso. Not quite what I was after. A piojo is a louse, as in body louse. That would translate to lousy. When they say it they are referring to a mean, stingy person, clean or dirty. If I don’t get any positive feedback on this thing pretty soon, I’ll just have to make up a word. Putting a proper handle on these people, for me, would be just like tagging a big marlin, releasing it. Like a sign: “caught ya.”

Whining? Get over it!

Lee - 4-26-2008 at 07:20 PM

In Waikiki, or Cabo along the Marina, expect to pay $9.00 for a marg or daqairi You're paying for the view, the ambiance, the stool. Locals don't pay that price probably because they don't want to or can't afford it. It's the ''Tourist'' price.

In a land (MX) where the overall ''average'' annual income is $500 - $2,000, there isn't ONE tourist hanging out who isn't considered rich. That could be defined by the newer car you drive, or paying $4.50 for a gallon of organic milk in Todos. The stores in Todos that carry the items wanted by gringos -- tofu, soy milk, etc. -- charge gringo prices -- and I for one pay with gratitude that I can get the things I want. The locals either don't buy this stuff or buy for less. It's not a level playing field folks. You DON'T have to pay high prices. You CAN do without.

shari - 4-27-2008 at 08:33 AM

Thank you for the grammar tips...when I begin a reply, I have no idea it will turn into a rant...it just spills out of my fingertips fast with no breath for a paragraph indent...but I'll try..
thank you all for bearing with me on my attempt at explaining the unexplainable
I would like to take back my words about staying in the USA...for fully understanding and appreciating the cultural nuances can only come about by spending more time here immersed in the culture
By the way...the constuction workers who worked in the states do NOT charge american prices...probably half of what you would pay there...but do charge a bit more than the substandard work that most mexicans will be happy with.
I love a good deal for sure but find it sad when people take advantage of a family who need to sell something for a family emergency and only get a couple hundred bucks for a couple thousand dollar item...not fair.

TonyC - 4-27-2008 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Thank you for the grammar tips...when I begin a reply, I have no idea it will turn into a rant...it just spills out of my fingertips fast with no breath for a paragraph indent...but I'll try..
thank you all for bearing with me on my attempt at explaining the unexplainable
I would like to take back my words about staying in the USA...for fully understanding and appreciating the cultural nuances can only come about by spending more time here immersed in the culture
By the way...the constuction workers who worked in the states do NOT charge american prices...probably half of what you would pay there...but do charge a bit more than the substandard work that most mexicans will be happy with.
I love a good deal for sure but find it sad when people take advantage of a family who need to sell something for a family emergency and only get a couple hundred bucks for a couple thousand dollar item...not fair.

Shari, I'm a newbie, and for me you are a local girl. I want, and need your insight, both seen,and unseen in this culture which I've fallen in love with....understood not everything is written in stone. All situations differ. Thank you Shari, I appreciate you.

shari - 4-27-2008 at 09:42 AM

When I gave birth to a mexican daughter I found myself in the role of "bridge" between the cultural chasm trying to explain to my family & friends on both sides of the bridge why people did what they did, acted as they act...provide some insight...some understanding so each culture could get along better. In our immersion programs, we teach not only the language but also delve into cultural matters which is the real meat and potatoes....or tortillas and beans of learning spanish. It hasn't been easy but it has been a fascinating journey of self discovery...I am proud to say I'm a better person for it...so thanks Sirenita for providing the opportunity to experience a new reality.

Iflyfish - 4-27-2008 at 10:28 AM

Osprey,

Nothing in the DSM IV that covers it, though it is a form of maddness.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 4-27-2008 at 10:47 AM

I was thinking this morning that being a tourist in Mexico, and it being ok to charge me more because I have more money than the locals, is like being a beutiful woman. One is treated differently, nearly always catered to and pampered and sometimes despised. A beatutiful woman is seen as a sex object and then as a person. She must deal with how to integrate the fact that she will always have to deal with the blessing/curse of her beauty and will be heard bemoaning "I want to be seen for who I am, to be treated like a person, not an object".

Iflyfish

Osprey - 4-27-2008 at 11:06 AM

Rick, a record, two Freudian slips of the digits in one post. What do you suppose you really meant by Beutiful and Beatutiful. I couldn't stand my mother so this is not just idle chatter.

Iflyfish - 4-27-2008 at 11:36 AM

Osprey,

Ok, can I get up off the couch yet! Matted and pinned!

I nearly blew my coffee out my nose....stop that!

I couldn't stand my mother either, much better relationship since her passing.

Iflyfish

Skipjack Joe - 4-27-2008 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Skipjack, finding a place where you take good care of yourself, see the game clearly and smile at it indicates an evolution and resolution of this issue. You are not walking around with one of these :mad:

going on in your head and that :mad:

is where I get if I catch myself in moralizing about these things :spingrin:

that is part of what I am taking from this great dialogue.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish, just as I may have misunderstood your views I think you have also. I am not particularly angry about anything on this subject and I don't really feel any anger or righteousness about any negotation or transaction I have with the people of baja.

I just see a lot of ambituity on this thread about what is essentially right and wrong. It's good under this situation but wrong under this one. When things get like that for me I just cut to the center of what it really is all about and the answer becomes clear and simple.

I fully appreciate Mexico's cultural differences and enjoy them as much as anyone (more so , perhaps, as I've been crisscrossing lating america for decades). I think some of these qualities are a hinderance to it ever becoming the sort of country it aspires to be. And the subject of this thread is related to some of those issues.

Have you ever tried to get a taxi in Lima, Peru? If you are traveling with locals they will try to tell you to stand behind the corner so that the driver can't see you. Why? Because you're (I'm) a chump. They (your friends) will then hail one down and the process begins. The give and take until you get a price you feel is fair. About half of the time that doesn't happen. They wave him off and look for another one. Now, I know for a fact that Peruvians themselves don't like going through this process. It's timeconsuming and often gets emotional. Personally I prefer being duped than going through this whole thing but they have no choice. They have no choice because every intes matters. The other option is to take the bus and hold on to the rail outside with your back to the breeze. :lol:

Anyway I think the country suffers for it.

After reading your subsequent posts I really don't see much of a difference in our points of view. It's just a matter of emphasizing one thing over another in order to accentuate some point.

DianaT - 4-27-2008 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

By the way...the constuction workers who worked in the states do NOT charge american prices...probably half of what you would pay there...but do charge a bit more than the substandard work that most mexicans will be happy with.

But we have found that the local workers who have NOT worked in the US are more reliable, are honest, stand behind their work, and overall do better work.

Even with the one tile man who worked in the states who does excellent tile work, his substance abuse problems makes it impossible to work with him.

Just what we have learned by trial and error.

Diane

DENNIS - 4-27-2008 at 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I couldn't stand my mother either

Tell us what she did, or didn't do, to incur your wrath. Perhaps we can help. :spingrin:

Iflyfish - 4-27-2008 at 04:09 PM

Should have written "find a place where ONE can care for ONESELF" My bad writing. I think you have sorted a lot of this out and I admire how you move through it. You said "When things get like that for me I just cut to the center of what it really is all about and the answer becomes clear and simple." and that is indeed the place I seek. Sorry for my poor writing. It is hard in this media to adequately express oneself about an issue as complex as this. I often read posts from you that reflect this "center" place and appreciate that about your posts.

"After reading your subsequent posts I really don't see much of a difference in our points of view. It's just a matter of emphasizing one thing over another in order to accentuate some point." I agree. I posted the response you refer too at a point in my evolving thinking out loud where I started to see how I can get myself stuck in a good/bad paradigm "moralizing" and then get rigid with anger. I appreciated your comments on my post and am pleased that you read them and make such astute comments. I tried to use emotograms to depict my internal states as I changed my thinking and thereby my feelings. Still not good at that.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 4-27-2008 at 04:12 PM

Thanks Dennis, please practive your hmmmms and ahas and I will continue. It really is not what she did or didn't do, but how I experienced what she did or didn't do and the conclusions and decisions I made about myself in the context of the relationship. The good news is that one can change these decisions. Thanks for the ride on the couch.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 4-27-2008 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
It really is not what she did or didn't do, but how I experienced what she did or didn't do and the conclusions and decisions I made about myself in the context of the relationship.

Aha..... Effect independent of cause. Very victimationalistic. Hmmmmmm.....

Pescador - 4-27-2008 at 05:28 PM

Shari and Osprey seem to come closer to the cultural explanation of this practice but most are trying to see the issue through "American Eyes" which makes explaining the issue very difficult. My wife bought a cake this week for a Despedida de Soltera which is a wedding shower for a friend in the village. The woman who makes cakes comes very highly reccommended and was reported to be very reasonable. When we asked the price, she said she did not know because she had not bought the ingredients yet and the price kept changing but she said because we were friends of friends she would treat us right on the price and not take advantage of us. The cake was absolutely magnificent and she gave us a price that was a little high. As we talked about the price, she explained that the prices for the materials had increased since the last one she had baked a month or so ago and she was willing to take less profit on this cake. So we gave here a tip to take care of the smaller profit margin and said that it was because she had done an extra special job on this particual cake.
Here is the point. In the US, it would have been a mass produced or maybe individual produced cake and the expectation is for a fixed price, whereas in Mexico the price is a little more fluid. Perhaps that is why we are commonly seen as brash and maybe a little uncivilized since we do not normally go through the social interactions of talking about relatives or family and current events before we come to the bottom line of a transaction. For a mexican, I suspect that the bottom line is a much more fluid process.
I have had a similar experience with a worker who was helping me with the house and we agreed on a price but the work was much more difficult than either of us expected. On one level he felt he should stay with the original quoted rate but we both knew that some adjustment should be made due to the increased difficulty and by communicating we reached a level where we were both pleased and satisfied.
On the other hand I have had workers who never did communicate very openly and I watched them overcharge other foreigners in the area. After a spell, they found that they had great difficulty getting any work because their reputation preceded them and it became increasingly difficult to find new people to take advantage of.

bajalera - 4-27-2008 at 08:44 PM

Pippitysnice--what a great word. Thank you, Shari.

Iflyfish - 4-28-2008 at 01:10 AM

Dennis, you said "Aha..... Effect independent of cause. Very victimationalistic. Hmmmmmm..... "

I said "It really is not what she did or didn't do, but how I experienced what she did or didn't do and the conclusions and decisions I made about myself in the context of the relationship."

I don't see this as victimization at all. I own my own perceptions, most parents do the very best that they can. What is significant is how I interpreted those behaviors and that is taking responsibility for my own interpretations and the feelings generated in the context of the interaction. I made decisions about myself in those transactions and that is also my decision. There actually is great power in that awareness as I know that it was ME who decided how to interpret, feel and dicide in the context of the relationship. If I decide one thing then, as a child, I can decide something very different as an adult and that is not victimization, that is empowerment. We all tend to repeat familiar, predictable interaction and feeling patterns that we developed in our history. It is empowering to know that we can interpret, feel and behave differently.

This issue is relevant to the current discussion in that if I interpret the interaction that Pescador just described as immoral behavior on the part of the baker, her charging different prices, then I am victimizing myself in the transaction. I am saying I am a victim of her immorality. If I recognize that I have the power to interpret the transaction in different ways, then I have option to decide if I wish to maintain my interpretation and the feelings and conclusions that proceed from my interpertation of the transaction. That empowers me to choose how I am going to interpret, feel about, and behave in the transaction. That is empowerment. I empower myself by taking responsibility for my perception, interpretation and behavior. That is not victimization, this is empowerment.

I generate my own perceptions, interpretations, feelings and decisions about what happens to me. There is great power in that. I am not saying that sh.. does not happen, it does, but my interpretations about those things generate my feelings and decisions and thereby my behavior. If I tend to personalize or moralize then my responses will tend to become more rigid and reactive and that obviously is not what leads to success in Mexico. Pescador got it right I think, as have Shari, Osprey and ShipJack. To be happy and content in Mexico requires flexablility and adaptability to a very different way of being in the world. Victim mentality will only create more problems. There is great power in flexibility and adaptability it is not weakness as some would tend to see it.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish

The Gull - 4-28-2008 at 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Osprey,

Ok, can I get up off the couch yet! Matted and pinned!

I nearly blew my coffee out my nose....stop that!

I couldn't stand my mother either, much better relationship since her passing.

Iflyfish

You have been overcharged by your local shrink. :spingrin:

Iflyfish - 4-28-2008 at 06:03 AM

And the last session was a real blow out too!

Iflyfish

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

You have been overcharged by your local shrink. :spingrin:

DENNIS - 4-28-2008 at 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
You have been overcharged by your local shrink

He IS his local shrink.

DENNIS - 4-28-2008 at 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Dennis, you said "Aha..... Effect independent of cause. Very victimationalistic. Hmmmmmm..... "

I was only kiddin' with you, Rick. Just felt like making up a new word.

Marie-Rose - 4-28-2008 at 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
You have been overcharged by your local shrink

He IS his local shrink.

Damn!... and a good one at that!
IFLYFISH
Right on! That is some heavy stuff to read first thing in the morning but you most certainly are doing something right. Would love to sit over some cold ones and discuss life in Mexico... and life in general with you one day!!!!

shari - 4-28-2008 at 07:39 AM

Pecador...THAT is a classic example of funky pricing here...it really does depend on how much the cake mixes cost that week and extra time put in on certain jobs(as well as how you are related to the cake recipient) many factors influence the end price...and good for you for tipping on a "beyond the call of duty" job. Our cousin is a cake maker and they are a bit expensive in my mind but are also much superior to any mass produced cake and I know the $ goes to feed their kids, not a megastore.
Hey Dennis, nice couch dude!

Iflyfish - 4-28-2008 at 09:00 AM

Shari,

Good. You can ride his couch for a while, my fingers are sore from tryping and my mind numb from explaining myself and my dead mother :lol:

.

Sounds great Marie Rose, eh? I speak Canadian too.

Iflyfish

elizabeth - 4-28-2008 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Pippitysnice--what a great word. Thank you, Shari.

Not to change the subject...but how do you pronounce it, and what's the derivation?

[Edited on 4-28-2008 by elizabeth]

Pescador - 4-28-2008 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Pippitysnice--what a great word. Thank you, Shari.

Not to change the subject...but how do you pronounce it, and what's the derivation?

[Edited on 4-28-2008 by elizabeth]

My wife, who is Greek, says that it has a Greek derivation. They were making philosophy while our ancestors were swinging from trees.. Pippity--meaning of insignificance as well as small and paltry. Since--(which is I think the correct spelling but may be synce which has to do with timing. If you have seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" then you will understand the tounge in cheek humor here so do not rush to your theasaurus.

durrelllrobert - 4-28-2008 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Maybe tell them you're "loco" and get it free. :?:

doesn't work at anthony's :lol:

elizabeth - 4-28-2008 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Pippitysnice--what a great word. Thank you, Shari.

Not to change the subject...but how do you pronounce it, and what's the derivation?

[Edited on 4-28-2008 by elizabeth]

Thanks for the explanation, but I think you meant when YOUR ancestors were swinging in trees. Mine were growing vineyards and making wine!!!!!!

Lindalou - 4-28-2008 at 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Those who cannot read a Spanish menu should be charged 20% extra since the proprietor had to get his menu translated and extra copies printed to accommodate.

Those lodging establishments which have English speaking staff should charge 20% more for non-Spanish speaking Gringos, because bi-lingual staff gets paid more.

If you disagree with the above, stay in the US or Canada and spend more of your money there for less service and courtesy for the same commodities.

As was suggested in previous posts, use the Spanish menu and keep track of the costs of items. If you lose track, just ask for a menu at the time you receive La Cuenta to compare.

A factoid was provided one time to me and I didn't bother to research it. I was told: "It is against Mexican Law for restaurants to have the menu ONLY in foreign currency" - that means like US dollars or Canadian loonies.

I would love to hear from a Citizen of Mexico on this board who can shed some light on that claim.

If we should all stay in Canada and the US if we can't speak Spanish and spend our money there, pretty soon there would be no need for a bi lingual staff in fact there would be no need for the establishment at all. So no more jobs and they wouldn't have to worry about speaking English. Has that thought occurred to anyone?

Skipjack Joe - 4-28-2008 at 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
They were making philosophy while our ancestors were swinging from trees..

That was the best line from that movie, made by the father of the bride. I don't know why, but older men have it toughest changing cultures.

My dad would often tell me "Think of it. Why, you're part of a nation that's over 1000 years old". As though, I somehow benefitted from that.

The US is a nation of immigrants and that film ringed true for a lot of people.

My regards to Marika,
Igor

Osprey - 4-28-2008 at 06:29 PM

With vendors it's hard to know just what to do, how much to pay, if one should ask the price, haggle, etc. Around 1998 I started to just grab the stuff and run like hell. I hope this doesn't offend anyone. The stuff had hardly any value but it gave me a rush in a foreign country for no money at all. (Cheap Thrills) Isn't that what it's all about? I'm not proud of myself but it was fun til the vendors and their tiny children caught up to me.

vandenberg - 4-28-2008 at 07:30 PM

Fishhawk,

That explains the limp.

The Gull - 5-1-2008 at 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichnLinda

Quote:

Has the other approach occured to anyone? Learn 100 words in Spanish and have a better chance of working within the system.

I know it is challenging to some to learn 100 new words in any language, even their own, but they SHOULD stay in the US and Canada for their own comfort and where they can pay more for less. A Darwin example as sooner or later, that breed will die out, unless the government provides cost of living increases to their social stipends.

cajhawk - 5-2-2008 at 10:56 AM

In Southern California amusement parks do this all of the time. If you have a driver's license with a certain zip code you can get into Sea World all year for going there just once. It encourages you to bring out of town guest there more often. Maybe not apples to apples, but it does happen here in the US as well!

longlegsinlapaz - 5-2-2008 at 12:54 PM

Lencho, you're just laying in wait for me there in the bushes, I KNOW YOU ARE!! I do know 100 words in Espanol! :biggrin:

Oh wait! You mean I gotta be able to string them together into an intelligible sentence?

I've YET to be laughed out of anywhere for lack of trying, but I've seen a lot of very confused expressions....as they've seen on my face in return!!! :lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

What?!
OK, honestly now, Nomads: how many of you do not know at least 100 words in Spanish? :?:

--Larry

Gadget - 5-2-2008 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Has the other approach occured to anyone? Learn 100 words in Spanish and have a better chance of working within the system.

What?!
OK, honestly now, Nomads: how many of you do not know at least 100 words in Spanish? :?:

--Larry

Uno, dos, tres, quatro, cinco...stand by, this is going to take a while... :?:

longlegsinlapaz - 5-2-2008 at 08:34 PM

Looked to me like a cell phone & an ice cream cone, but I was moving past that snake in the grass at a high rate of speed!

And no fair!! You're cheating! You KNOW me! Of course my Espanol is heavily weighted with construction related terminology...."Es no correcto!" "Necessito mas fino trabajo!" "Sin cerveza con trabajo en mi propidad!" Well the purists might not get it, but my workers do! They also understand "Muy bueno trabajo, gracias!" :biggrin:

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Lencho, you're just laying in wait for me there in the bushes, I KNOW YOU ARE!!

You sure got that right. Lencho's ambush is underway here:

Jeesh, I gotta cut down on my medication. Did I have a Nextel radio and a machete in my hand?

--Larry

Edit to correct weary transpositions!

[Edited on 5-3-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]

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