BajaNomad

What would you do???

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mtgoat666 - 4-10-2009 at 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mulegemichael
the border patrol is REALLY out of control at this point...case in point; my farm manager is mexican and a naturalized U.S. citizen as is his wife and three kids...he's run my farm in my absence for over 10 years and is an upstanding member of our community,(in washington state).

Last month, while we were in mulege for the winter, he was at a friends house in town,(sequim, washington), helping to work on a vehicle with some other buddies...all of a sudden, the door was kicked in, and in piled a half dozen border patrol, guns drawn...my guy raised his hands and tried to tell them he was a citizen and was rewarded with a face plant and a bloody nose, then was cuffed, along with all the rest of the guys.......now...is that reasonable force?....i was in law enforcement for 20 yrs and that doesn't comply with any of the guidelines i was taught...they are out of control..


homeland security has been practicing gestapo tactics ever since 9-11, and has gotten worse as politics has leaned to being anti-immigrant.
bajagringo, you were a US citizen driving a foreign licensed car in USA -- welcome to how the USA government treats foreigners. you can write your congressman, but he won't care because many more cranks are writing him letters asking for homeland security to build fences and practice torture.

Fourth Amendment rights suspended at border

thebajarunner - 4-10-2009 at 02:38 PM

As ominous as that caption sounds, I am told by very good authority (Baja Vida used to work in assisting immigrant issues) that it is true.

When we crossed at Tecate last week it was about 8 p.m., dark, and four of us were parked just up the road awaiting our fifth member (stuck in ag secondary)

A Border Patrol creep crept (do you like that little alliteration?) up next to us, stopped, then shined his big light straight into my eyes from ten feet away.

I threw both hands in the air and gave him "A look"

BV quietly said, "Cool it, in the border zone the 4th Amendment does not apply"

So, looks like Uncle Sugar can play it any damm way he wants.

and by the way, I was furious, like totally pi******ed,
but alas, even pale faced Gringos apparently have no rights in border zones and area checkpoints.

Sharksbaja - 4-10-2009 at 03:20 PM

A good point was the way police(normally) in Baja treat the average person, regardless of plates or ethnicity. Generally speaking from a civil standpoint. Better perhaps except for the extortion thang which is usually handled quite politely. :wow:

soulpatch - 4-10-2009 at 03:57 PM

I get replies to every email I sent to my representatives.....and there are more she's than he's in this neck of the woods for your info.
I just can't quite wrap my head around your style of victimized complacency..... it is almost cliche like.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

homeland security has been practicing gestapo tactics ever since 9-11, and has gotten worse as politics has leaned to being anti-immigrant.
bajagringo, you were a US citizen driving a foreign licensed car in USA -- welcome to how the USA government treats foreigners. you can write your congressman, but he won't care because many more cranks are writing him letters asking for homeland security to build fences and practice torture.

Woooosh - 4-10-2009 at 03:58 PM

Hey Ron- best to your mom.

65 on that stretch? I've seen the pack going 80mph and people still passing (including me).

I understand why and how the border patrol has authority and automony 100 miles fromthe border (all the way up to LAX though?). But I don't think these "profiling" stops should be done in unmarked cars by officers in plain clothes. There's no other way off that road until San Clemente and people should at least be able to tell what authoritites are pulling them over.

You were as likely to be kidnappped as be inspected IMHO. The cartel watches both sides for victims (and possibly you with your baja plates headed to the OC) and you were in no mans land. I would not have stopped until I reached a safe place. Maybe the 711 so their security cameras would have caught their abusive behavior.

BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 04:00 PM

In all honesty, I am still debating whether to file a complaint or not. My heart tells me to do it.

I have a neighbor in Rosarito who had a run-in with the border patrol in San Diego a couple of years back. He married a Mexican woman who had a 10 year laser visa. They crossed the border to attend a birthday party at her sisters house, who lived in Chula Vista. They left the party to buy some groceries at a small market down the street and his wife left her purse back at the family members home. Parking the car at the market, a CBP vehicle pulled up and starting questing them. His wife was separated from him and the fact that she speaks very little English did not help her cause to explain to the officer why she did not have any ID with her. They handcuffed his wife and the incident escalated when somehow his wife ended up on the ground, face first with a broken nose. He filed a complaint, there was an investigation and a finding that the officers did not act out of line. Her fall and injury were determined to be no fault of the officers.

The outcome has been that he has been rewarded with being placed on some "list" as they are routinely sent to secondary inspection when crossing the border now.

As it will be my word against the two officers, I really doubt much will come of it and I will probably enjoy making that "list" myself. My brain is telling me not to do what my heart says I should...

BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Hey Ron- best to your mom.

65 on that stretch? I've seen the pack going 80mph and people still passing (including me).

I understand why and how the border patrol has authority and automony 100 miles fromthe border (all the way up to LAX though?). But I don't think these "profiling" stops should be done in unmarked cars by officers in plain clothes. There's no other way off that road until San Clemente and people should at least be able to tell what authoritites are pulling them over.

You were as likely to be kidnappped as be inspected IMHO. The cartel watches both sides for victims (and possibly you with your baja plates headed to the OC) and you were in no mans land. I would not have stopped until I reached a safe place. Maybe the 711 so their security cameras would have caught their abusive behavior.


I normally push the gas there too but I had it on cruise control coming north and never even thought about it as I was on the phone with my sister who was at the hospital.

I had the very same thoughts you mentioned about it being a car jacking/kidnapping and the guys behavior did nothing to make me feel different.

If you are willing to be complacent then that is your option.

soulpatch - 4-10-2009 at 04:09 PM

I filed a complaint quite awhile back and had phone conversations with a number of senior regional supervisors..... I've crossed the border a number of times since then and have yet to be sent to secondary again.
The burroes count on you rolling over.....since you made this a public conversation I will just add my two cents that if you embrace a victim mentality you are part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
In all honesty, I am still debating whether to file a complaint or not. My heart tells me to do it.

I have a neighbor in Rosarito who had a run-in with the border patrol in San Diego a couple of years back. He married a Mexican woman who had a 10 year laser visa. They crossed the border to attend a birthday party at her sisters house, who lived in Chula Vista. They left the party to buy some groceries at a small market down the street and his wife left her purse back at the family members home. Parking the car at the market, a CBP vehicle pulled up and starting questing them. His wife was separated from him and the fact that she speaks very little English did not help her cause to explain to the officer why she did not have any ID with her. They handcuffed his wife and the incident escalated when somehow his wife ended up on the ground, face first with a broken nose. He filed a complaint, there was an investigation and a finding that the officers did not act out of line. Her fall and injury were determined to be no fault of the officers.

The outcome has been that he has been rewarded with being placed on some "list" as they are routinely sent to secondary inspection when crossing the border now.

As it will be my word against the two officers, I really doubt much will come of it and I will probably enjoy making that "list" myself. My brain is telling me not to do what my heart says I should...

Bajahowodd - 4-10-2009 at 04:10 PM

Understand your reluctance, Ron. Maybe the best we can all do is collectively write to our government officials to let them know that things are getting way beyond what we think of as constitutional freedom. Then, there's this other note that the current administration has gone on record as refocusing on employers and not employees. Too many folks have spent time in jail who were actually legal to begin with. With the ingrained mindset of the enforcers, maybe the only solution is to try another amnesty. I know I'm going to hear about it, but right now, there has to be a record low number of illegals here. With the job market as it is, maybe the ones still here deserve credit for staying.

BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
I filed a complaint quite awhile back and had phone conversations with a number of senior regional supervisors..... I've crossed the border a number of times since then and have yet to be sent to secondary again.
The burroes count on you rolling over.....since you made this a public conversation I will just add my two cents that if you embrace a victim mentality you are part of the problem.


I hear what you are saying and my heart agrees with you. I have emailed both Senator Boxer as well as Feinstein. I am hesitant to make a complaint directly through CBP, based on my own life experience though.

Let's see what happens this route first. I honestly suspect that not much...

comitan - 4-10-2009 at 04:22 PM

Bajahowodd

We are on the same side, but it still belongs in OFF TOPIC.:(:(:(

Paula - 4-10-2009 at 04:25 PM

BajaGringo, your neighbor's incident happened "a couple of years ago". Different administration back then. Maybe the results would be different now, but you do have to be comfortable which ever way you decide.

Bajahowodd - 4-10-2009 at 04:26 PM

Can't argue with you. Just get a little worked up on some issues.

And Ron- in my opinion, you've done enough for now.

BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 04:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken

BG,

With all due respect, are you really saying that the Mexican Authorities are the Benchmark to judge Police Forces?


Ken


I would simply suggest that the CBP could learn a lot from their counterparts south of the border as to general civility and manners when making a profile stop/search like we often encounter and deal with in Baja. It would go a long way to help the CBP get their job done with better cooperation and avoid such unnecessary incidents IMHO. I travel up and down the peninsula in Baja on a weekly basis and have hundreds of such stops logged to compare and the difference is quite noticeable.

ELINVESTIG8R - 4-10-2009 at 04:30 PM

For you purists complaining that this should be in the other section which shall not be named, BajaGringo did come from Baja and has Baja License plates on the vehicle that was stopped. How much more Baja can you get.

soulpatch - 4-10-2009 at 04:36 PM

complaint
I don't know if that link works. I would include the correspondence you sent out to Boxer et al.

BajaNomad - 4-10-2009 at 04:42 PM

The thread has unfortunately turned into a discussion of USA politics, and to prevent having to move it to off-topic, will now be closed.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration moving forward.

-
Doug
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