Turtle bust

BajaNuts, No that's just telling it like it is.

Gee, what happened to Ramuma???

Who's Ramuma?

Absurdity

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo Gee, what happened to Ramuma??? His cloak was removed and he dried up like a slug in the sun!

Anyone know where to get Turtle Tacos?

Just kidding! If they are endangered and it's against the law I would never touch one. I have seen them before when out fishing.


[Edited on 4-17-2009 by fishbuck]

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck Anyone know where to get Turtle Tacos? Just kidding! If they are endangered and it's against the law I would never touch one. I have seen them before when out fishing. [Edited on 4-17-2009 by fishbuck]

YOU SEEM SO INTENT ON THIS TURTLE THING ALL OF A SUDDEN. SOMETIMES IT IS BETTER TO PICK UP THE CHIPS AND CUT YOU LOSSES.

CAN I SAY YOUR ENTERTAINING?

ramuma53 - nobody here is fooled as to your true identity. Why are you so ashamed to own up to it? That in itself makes much of what you post here suspect. Would you like for me to publish here the moderator logs from TalkBaja showing your email you listed on registration and then confirmed via email back to you to be able to post there?

He seems intent on ignoring that request as he knows what the answer is. Everyone else is free to u2u me and I will happily provide that information to you to show you who this character really is...





[Edited on 4-18-2009 by BajaGringo]

Only one problem with that ramuma - when you register on the forum it also logs your IP address / location. You did not register from down in Mulege - you registered from Tijuana.

Try again...

I suppose "Mr. Muñoz" lets you use his personal business email account from Muñoz Industries in Tijuana too, right?

Puleeezzzz

At least invent a story that is slightly credible...

Shared internet connection w/TJ

Never heard of that before!


I guess the big question now is: Why would anyone allow someone else to post potentially incriminating information about their biz. Mr. Munoz must not be too bright as to let someone like a two-bit bodyguard write and post on his behalf while he is so far away.

Will you pretend to be him in court as well?

Totally ludicrous imho. I think Mr Munoz should speak up. You obviously are in constant contact with him. When he signs in perhaps an email address or ip address will clear up any suspicion.

[Edited on 4-18-2009 by Sharksbaja]

If it's working then...

why not make the penalties the same for kilos?

Or running a stop sign?

Or driving on the beach?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Quote: Originally posted by JESSE The good thing is that it has worked, nobody sells caguama openly like they used to. why not make the penalties the same for kilos? Or running a stop sign? Or driving on the beach?

Ok, Bajagringo, you keep on believing that I am Munoz, even if it has no consequence for this discussion, but for your information, the Munoz Industries email is the email used here at the hotel for reservations by internet and is very public; the hotel and everything incluiding the computers are Munoz Property, and I mean the houses where we live too; if you want to communicate with Munoz, you have to use the same email and that is director@munoz-industries.com and that will come to the hotel also, he has private emails, but just email him direct and he will answer, he reads everything and he has always been a gentlemen; also his english is a lot better than mine, but lets keep to our topic.
Today the Hotel Buenaventura got an email from Green Peace and they are going to press the federal authorities to make an example of these poachers and also from other pro nature organizations that have read about this HERE and came through the hotel webpage and yes through the same Munoz emails that we can see here.
Looks like the poachers are not going to have it as easy as they tought; closing of the restaurant is asured and voiding of the Federal Zone concesion a must.
I also found out that killing a turtle has a heavier penalty than killing a human; if you kill a human and show at least some self preservation you will stay only 2 to 4 years in jail while a killing a turtle carry a 12 years jail sentence, more fore who cook it, sell it and or transport it.
I also called Munoz about this conversation I have been having and he will enter the board in the next few days; looks like I am a lot more expresive than he is.

Buenaventura

I want to see pictures of all who are involved. Eduardo Villa Arellano, Alias: (ramuma53); El Ingeniero Rafael Munoz Martinez, Alias: El Mano Negra; Eddie the bodyguard of Rafael Munoz; Olivia Higuera Aguilar and Mark Burbey. Can the parties please provide these photos? Thank you.

David, Alias: El Lobo Herido.

And just because I sometimes believe in fair play here is my picture.




[Edited on 4-18-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

You still have not explained Rafael - I mean ramuma, how we are supposed to believe that Rafael Muñoz lets everybody use his business email address of director@munoz-industries.com to send out email, register on internet forums, etc. I don't know any businessman who would even think of doing that as he puts his business credibility at risk. If there is internet access anybody can register online for a free hotmail/yahoo/gmail account. There is no need to use the company email address and for him - I mean you to try to convince us of such a ridiculous thing is actually hilarious.

Even if that were true (I seriously doubt it) that you - I mean he let folks use his business email address for such things down at the hotel, the fact remains that you registered on the forum from Tijuana. Your IP address was logged and clearly shows it. So now you are going to tell me that you - I mean Rafael Muñoz lets people use his business email address from his offices in Tijuana too???

I am going to micro some popcorn myself on this one...





[Edited on 4-18-2009 by BajaGringo]

It strikes me that when you have a weak and ineffective law enforcement system you target individuals and come down hard on them hoping to intimidate the remainder of the citizens to do the right thing.

That's sad.




P.S. I consider myself an environmentalist and have always supported laws protecting turtles. And I have never met any of the people involved in this matter. Just an objective bystander.

[Edited on 4-18-2009 by Skipjack Joe]

¿Is this thread great or what?

Photos

I love it......

Elinvest has his pic up....waiting for the others.


Here are two of the key players....shared identities????

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe It strikes me that when you have a weak and ineffective law enforcement system you target individuals and come down hard on them hoping to intimidate the remainder of the citizens to do the right thing. That's sad. Sorry, It may be sad, but, is SOP in Draconian Systems, Such as Napoleonic Justice , which is the rule of the land in Mexico ..... it is indeed strange that they fought the French but embraced their system of justice CaboRon My appologies for being in the box [Edited on 4-18-2009 by Skipjack Joe]

Pescada

After talking to several locals here I think the blue bowel had pescada in it as it sure smells that way.(fishy) And the profeba and marinas came for a free lunch. They know of no other restrauantes checked during Semana Santa

That surprises me.
For years there were turtle shells galore on the beaches here around Loreto. On the far end of Ensenada Blanca there was an isolated beach where the locals likely cleaned their catch and just disgarded the shells. Folks from Tripui knew of this and many brought them home to Tripui, cleaned them up and had them adorn their Palapa walls. Also the beaches between Nopolo and Loreto were a good hunting ground for them. Found quite a few, cleaned them, polished them and used them for presents. Still have a few hanging on the walls in my home here in Nopolo.
Never had an idea I was violating any laws here. Was familiar with the fact that you couldn't bring them into the US. However, many Tripui folks carted them with them on their track north. Never heard of anyone getting called on this at the line and sure never heard of anyone doing time for this (true :? offense.

[Edited on 4-18-2009 by vandenberg]

There are many restaurants, tourist stops and shops that have them all along Baja. They look as though they have been there for many decades, back before they became a protected species.

The same can be said for whale bones, etc...






[Edited on 4-18-2009 by BajaGringo]

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg Quote: Originally posted by JESSE Quote: Originally posted by meme All this Authoritive speaking & I still got no real answer to my question!! Is it illegal to have an empty turtle shell in your posession? I do not have one myself but I do know someone who recently found one supposedly at BOLA. Yes it is. That surprises me. For years there were turtle shells galore on the beaches here around Loreto. On the far end of Ensenada Blanca there was an isolated beach where the locals likely cleaned their catch and just disgarded the shells. Folks from Tripui knew of this and many brought them home to Tripui, cleaned them up and had them adorn their Palapa walls. Also the beaches between Nopolo and Loreto were a good hunting ground for them. Found quite a few, cleaned them, polished them and used them for presents. Still have a few hanging on the walls in my home here in Nopolo. Never had an idea I was violating any laws here. Was familiar with the fact that you couldn't bring them into the US. However, many Tripui folks carted them with them on their track north. Never heard of anyone getting called on this at the line and sure never heard of anyone doing time for this (true :? offense. [Edited on 4-18-2009 by vandenberg]

Yes, and it also says that his complete name is:

Rafael Muños Martinez

Anybody want to take a bet that he was born in 1953???

My friends, for that matter, at one time I was corossing the border Tijuana San Diego with new boots bought in Tijuana, those were turtle leather; at the San Ysidro border entrance, Customs confiscated my boots and didn't charged me, but I was afraid to looose my greencard then; happyly I was able to demostrate that I had just bought the boots in a legal shoe store and I know that that store was closed a few weeks later, so it is no easy thing to posses, transport, sale or even use sea turtle products.
Actually the law forbids the harrasing, catching, harming, sale and transportation of sea turtles or its products or derivates; if you have an old shell, it is not a crime as long as you don't transport it, sale it or cross the border with it.
On the other side, Olivia was catched with two fresh LOODY shells from 2 sea turtles, being cooked on her restaurant stove in a big pot, with the two real fresh heads in the kitchen INSIDE trash container; also she accept that she was warming it as a favor to some Ensenada families who were inside her restaurant for free while every person who know Olivia must know that she would never do that for free, that is an imposibility, she always charge for everything, no exception and even her friends know that.
My friends, also note that the hotel has no telephone at this moment, since last boat unlodading on Olivia's Restaurant and the Propesca raid was after that, so the tip could not have come from the Buenaventura hotel and we know that the only other telephone 15 miles orround is in Olivia's restaurant, so the tip must have come from her restaurant, maybe one customer or employee or husband of her did it and since she charge for telephone use, she must know who did the on time calls.
Also, Mark was not there very conveniently and since he is the restaurant co owner, or at least he say that, it is extrange, don't you think.
But anyway, they are known poachers now, they even accept that they had the Sea Turtle in their restaurant for their customers service free or not, they say free, but that is hard to believe even for her adamant protectors here.
The real question is, Do we condone the actual serving of Sea Turtle in a restaurant today???????
It is not a matter that in the past we like it or not, because I used to like it; not as a tradition, because it was not; they just were selling it all over Tijuana; it was not like turky tradition, we just were able to get it anyplace; of course in Baja, if you went to an able home, they will offer the best and that was Sea Turtle, now they offer shrimp the same way, or fish; Sea Turtle was not a tradition, it was the best at that time; now only the ones who are able to brake the law with impunity do it, being a corrupt governor or politician, but it is like inviting you to be their associate in crime.
We are not loosing tradition when we are not able to serve Sea Turtle in our homes, we can still make that dish, they call it Cahuamanta; it taste the same, the flavor is the same except it is made of fish, ray meat and beef' so the tradition can continue without the Sea Turtles participation.
When all over the world the lawmakers in our representation, baned the Sea Turtles from our tables and menus, it was for a reason; the sea turtles were being hunted to extintion; one way or the other, the Sea Turtles were gone from the tables, also they have become extremely expensive.
So we have not lost a tradition, we have not lost the excuisite dish and we are very willing to see the turtles sweeming in the sea, very alive.
We just need to take a step in to an active position and really protect the remaining sea turtles with our condoning or repudiating the ones that break that law, being a governor, a politician, a policeman, a restaurant owner or a friend who serve it at home when he invite you. that is the question for us here ???????????

Rafael - nobody here is disputing the fact that turtle poaching is wrong or illegal. We just find it very interesting how you keep trying to divert the attention away from the fact that you are not being honest as to who you are and your involvement with the folks charged in this issue. Nobody is buying it and the more you try to make these folks look bad, the more it is making many of us (who don't know either of the parties involved) start to wonder about what really went down there and if maybe you were involved somehow.

If you want to help your case, come clean as to who you really are and then maybe we can have an honest discussion about this. Until you do Rafael, this is just a charade and you are not helping your cause at all...

Wow. A true Renaissance man. Or an overblown case of man love.

I rest my case.

I believe it is quite obvious who this guy is but you guys can decide for yourselves...

ramua53, THIS WHOLE ISSUE IS GETTING CUMBERSOME. You're pee-peeing in the wind! Olivia and Mark are good people! You're just a cyber voice with an agenda, doubt if it's the love of turtles that motivates you. Imagine it's the love of $$$, but you're intitled to your opinions.

Ok, you are an intellectual bodyguard. Very common in Baja

Is this the bodyguard?:

Boy, wouldn't you love to be a judge in this case? Seems really weird that someone admits setting up cameras and electronic surveillance equipment with a satellite uplink, and we think that he is also not responsible for having someone walk in with a blue kettle of Turtle soup and then tipping off the Army, sherrif, police, border patrol, boy scouts, and Navy seals for a big bust. How do you say "Planted Evidence" in spanish? Bajagringo, who looks a little seedy in his pictures but in real life seems to have a real sensible head on his shoulders may have hit things right on the head with this deal. Oh well, I have not had this much fun following the twists and turns in this whole thread, since we tried to figure out if the pigs really did eat my little brother.

picture

Here are a few photos I received today depicting the players in this unfolding drama. The person in the last photo that was identified as Briana I have no clue what her involvement is. The photo is nevertheless included as it was provided to me by one of the players.

Rafael Munoz Martinez and Eddie


Rafael Munoz Martinez


Burning house Buenaventura


Mark Burbey


Mark Burbey and Olivia Higuera


Olivia Higuera in restaurant


Olivia and Briana


[Edited on 4-19-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

anonymous phone calls

Yes, but that's a good thang! From a certain perspective: