BajaNomad

Breaking News: Loreto Bay Baja resort, unable to find new buyer, suspends operations

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cajhawk - 6-9-2009 at 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
"Citigroup should be able to find a buyer in time and is probably going to get a better price for the asset once the liabilities of the current company go away."

In your dreams. Clue - it's been on the market for 7 months. Citibank has put in its capital, borrowed millions and maybe finished 10 more homes for all that. HOW ARE THE LIABILITIES GOING TO "GO AWAY"?????????
I guess the way that 5 mile aquaduct that you're going to kayak down some day is going to get done.
After all, IT'S ONLY A VISION. And that's what you all were told


If the new buyer comes in and solely purchases the land and facilities from Citigroup, I would think that they would not be liable for any past due bills from the Loreto Bay Company purchased by Citigroup. They get a clean slate. What would keep a developer from allowing each house to be individually built and merely selling lots? As long as there was a design standard in place they could make quite a bit doing that.

I'm not defending the Loreto Bay developers nor their mismanagement, but whether two or 9 phases are ever built it is still a beautiful area with some beautiful homes. The market will dictate their value, with or without all of the amenities.

bajabeachbabe - 6-9-2009 at 01:00 PM

Quote:
[quote.

10. Loreto Partners has not fully reimbursed BAJA New York for the cost of the provision of all the services provided Loreto Partners under the ISA. As only one example, certain individuals and entities provided emergency funding to BAJA New York so that it could provide services to Loreto Partners, which sums have not been reimbursed. A Canadian citizen named Norma Butterfield loaned BAJA New York $800,000 (Canadian), and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto Partners has not reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. In addition, a British Columbia corporation named Fan Tan Alley Holdings, Ltd. loaned BAJA New York $200,000 (Canadian), and upon information and belief, those sums were used at least in part to provide services to Loreto Partners under the ISA. Loreto Partners has not reimbursed BAJA New York for these sums. Upon information and belief, there are other un-reimbursed expenditures that Loreto Partners is obligated to reimburse BAJA New York under the ISA. These will be identified with particularity after discovery, and by means of the accounting that plaintiff is requesting the Court to order in this action.



I'm trying to get my arms around whether these people are really suing themselves. As far as I can recall and have gleaned from reading this complaint, I think these may be the relationships.

TSD Canada is still run by David Butterfield who founded Loreto Bay and would have had a hand in creating Baja Developments and TSD Loreto Partners. Baja Developments appears to have been the group running the offices in Scottsdale with Loreto Partners providing the sales in Scottsdale and Loreto. I am assuming that David Butterfield would have participated in all three entities until he left in 2007.

After Butterfield left, Replay was brought in to manage Loreto Bay and the offices of Loreto Partners moved to Loreto. What's not clear is who really is Loreto Partners today.

It's interesting to note that one of the people seeking money back is Mrs. Butterfield.

Back in February David Butterfield sent an email to one of the LB homeowners indicating that he was working with a former business partner to make a bid for the LB project. I recall that their bid was rejected.

Could it be that this lawsuit was an attempt by Butterfield to create a poison pill that would drive away any potential buyers in order to be able to strike a bargain to purchase the project back? Just a thought..........

Don Alley - 6-9-2009 at 01:19 PM

I would guess that it would be difficult to sell or purchase the assets as long as the debt is unresolved. Those who hold debt would likely block the liquidation of assets without a negotiated participation to make sure they get a share. Otherwise a buyer might be wary of the debtors attaching the property.

But I believe things will sort themselves out. Probably the individual property owners will arrange continuing services and any needed additional construction. Only when that is accomplished, and they are comfortable with their situation, will some new entity fly in on a Gulfstream and announce they are the new owners (with a Vision, of course), and they will proceed to muck everything up again.:biggrin:

Did you know that receipts from Loreto Bay pay 50% of the payroll for the Loreto water department? Or at least they used to.:no:

Also to the detriment of Loreto, a great source of free building materials will be lost.:o

wilderone - 6-9-2009 at 01:29 PM

Citigroup infused $30 million, which debt comes due June 2010. There are 250 homes sold but not built. There's no money to give back to the buyers whose homes haven't begun. There's no capital to finish amenities. What are you going to do with the outstanding debts, workers' liens, unfinished projects? Most of the residences were high-density condos. How much do you think the tiny "lots" are worth? How many and how quickly do you think they'd sell in order to get your $30 million+ investment back with profit? And in the meantime, you need to advertise and have staff to sell them or they're going nowhere. Look how long Rancho Dorado has been around doing that exact same thing - selling lots. And they've got the golf course, a couple restaurants, swimming pool, and extremely inexpensive HOA fee. If anyone wanted to buy a lot and build on it, they can - all over Baja CA. But not many people really want to put themselves through that ordeal. Who wants to spend $30 million in a foreign county and wait 15 years for a possible return on their investment. It's going to come down to Citigroup being willing to lose most of its investment, and a buyer who's willing to take on all the issues which led to its eventual downfall in the first place - the same elements that have been in place all along which dictated LB's non-starter position. Materials acquisition, materials storage, affordability, worker expertise, worker accommodations, availability of water, no Mexican influence; no stores, no garages for the stuff that anyone who knows Baja knows they'll need; long way from the US border, expensive flight. If anyone wanted to develop the land any differently than what it's now permitted and planned for, I'm sure there would have to be new enviro. impact statements, new plat maps drawn, new permits. Why would anyone want to step into a mess like that when there are many other sensible places to invest your money?

wilderone - 6-9-2009 at 02:16 PM

"Could it be that this lawsuit was an attempt by Butterfield to create a poison pill that would drive away any potential buyers in order to be able to strike a bargain to purchase the project back? Just a thought.......... "

Beats me. Or just a stab at Butterfield's wife getting back some of her money - or being able to get a judgment and lien against any future proceeds from a sale of the property or assets. The complaint provides a clue into the general running of the project, stating that Baja Development LLC was supposed to provide accounts receivable, accts payable, asset records, billing, collection, tax returns, financial statements, payroll, etc, etc., - all financial paperwork, but they didn't do so. Well, where was the oversight from the CFO and everyone else on the "Team." What a bunch of amateurs.
THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE NO HOME AND WILL NOT GET THEIR MONEY BACK SHOULD FILE "INTERVENOR" SUITS.

comitan - 6-9-2009 at 03:05 PM

Theres some good info here.

http://whereintheworldisnellie.blogspot.com/

Skeet/Loreto - 6-9-2009 at 03:36 PM

May I say " I told you So!" and I did that several years ago when this thing wsas announced.

Why is it that so many People fall for these Scams??

arrowhead - 6-9-2009 at 06:40 PM

This project is dead. It is just going to dissolve back into the desert from whence it came. Nobody can take it over because it just won't pencil out. That example of the schoolteacher who has paid 70% of the purchase price and the unit is only 20% done (due to fraud) should tell you. The economic profit from building a condo is probably 20% of the sales price, at best. The schoolteacher only owes an additional 30% on the contract and somebody has to expend 80% of the costs to finish it. Who is going to put in another $200,000 to finish it with less than $100,000 of payments due from the buyer?

Those other postings from people still involved with the project are designed only to give people false hope to keep the cash flow cow giving milk as long as they can. Who is that guy who said it's "nobody's fault"? It is somebody's fault. If I were an owner, I wouldn't pay one more cent of HOA dues. Those HOA contracts aren't really enforceable in Mexico anyways.

The legal structure shown in the lawsuit, where there is an offshore management company sucking all the cash out of Mexico as soon as it shows up is very typical. The Mexican development company is just a hollow shell, never meant to make money. It just serves as an obstacle to keep the buyers away from the money.

CaboRon - 6-9-2009 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
This project is dead. It is just going to dissolve back into the desert from whence it came. Nobody can take it over because it just won't pencil out. That example of the schoolteacher who has paid 70% of the purchase price and the unit is only 20% done (due to fraud) should tell you. The economic profit from building a condo is probably 20% of the sales price, at best. The schoolteacher only owes an additional 30% on the contract and somebody has to expend 80% of the costs to finish it. Who is going to put in another $200,000 to finish it with less than $100,000 of payments due from the buyer?

Those other postings from people still involved with the project are designed only to give people false hope to keep the cash flow cow giving milk as long as they can. Who is that guy who said it's "nobody's fault"? It is somebody's fault. If I were an owner, I wouldn't pay one more cent of HOA dues. Those HOA contracts aren't really enforceable in Mexico anyways.

The legal structure shown in the lawsuit, where there is an offshore management company sucking all the cash out of Mexico as soon as it shows up is very typical. The Mexican development company is just a hollow shell, never meant to make money. It just serves as an obstacle to keep the buyers away from the money.

camador - 6-10-2009 at 07:48 AM

Could stranded 400 workers of Loreto Bay, as of these days Loreto Bay suspended operations and yesterday the Inn at Loreto Bay closed, 400 workers could become unemployeed, full story here http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/10/podrian-quedar-desam...

They have now a translate button for easy reading.

CaboRon - 6-10-2009 at 08:15 AM

I hope this article is true .....and these workers are sent back to their homes.

Otherwise there will be 400 new workers on the streets of town trying to wash your car windows.

k-rico - 6-10-2009 at 08:33 AM

I'm thinking that there might be some good deals now that the "sustainable" and "authentic mexican" real estate development built by Canadians in a 3rd world country with home price tags that rivaled the hottest US markets in an area that lacks some basics, like water, and is unbearably hot half the year has come to its logical conclusion.

I'm such a vulture.

backninedan - 6-10-2009 at 01:21 PM

Run by the inept, sold to the uninformed and left to the unfortunate....

CaboRon - 6-10-2009 at 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by backninedan
Run by the inept, sold to the uninformed and left to the unfortunate....


Wow, You have really summed up the situation ...:wow:

camador - 6-11-2009 at 07:55 AM

Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-...

Pollen - 6-11-2009 at 08:47 AM

Long-time lurker here- This Loreto Bay stuff--

I'm more of an east Caper, but would see LB on the way down and always puzzled about what they thought they were doing. An eco-friendly resort that is a virtual enclosed outpost of "style"? Tiny condos without garages or parking? A massive golf-course using water/fertilizer/non-native plants so close to the estuary- virtually guaranteeing algae blooms in the bay? Unbelieveable pricing for that area? Does the "manure" not stink in LB?

And I'm mystified about the cheerleaders- StarkSilver- are they realtors? Nellie- what is she selling? How can they put their names and photos to all that hype. All the other cheerleaders/ realtors/victims- are they all drinking the LB KoolAid? A teacher losing what is probably a significant part of her life savings on a fraudlent deal? Do they have any shame at all?

I don't own in Mexico and never will. I have no trouble renting and hanging around a place for a couple of months. I sure don't want to be stuck in a snobby elistist colony away from the everyday life that is Baja.

I don't consider myself a sophisticate, but I could sure tell that was a mess from the day it started.

BMG - 6-11-2009 at 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by camador
Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-...
I would have to assume that the golf course will no longer be watered. With all the natural vegetation torn out to plant grass, what happens now? Isn't it going to turn into an 18 hole dust bowl?

Skeet/Loreto - 6-11-2009 at 09:01 AM

Pollen"
You read it right, but you must consider that in todays World, people are not much smarter than they were in my Great Generation Era.

There are Cheaters and Crooks all over. Loreto was and still is a very beautiful place. The UGLY Condos will just have to set there and be talked about.

Look a little further, go North and South and see some of the unspoiled Beauty that is still there.

It is such a Shame to see People who are suppose to be adults, that fall for all the BS.

Pollen - 6-11-2009 at 10:01 AM

The golf course is a goat farm now.

I'm more curious about the "canals".

Pollen - 6-11-2009 at 10:02 AM

Imagine the homeowner dues for having to maintain those/prevent them from becoming mosquito farms.

mtgoat666 - 6-11-2009 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BMG
Quote:
Originally posted by camador
Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-...
I would have to assume that the golf course will no longer be watered. With all the natural vegetation torn out to plant grass, what happens now? Isn't it going to turn into an 18 hole dust bowl?


there is nothing ecologically sustainable about grass in the desert. the whole idea of an eco-friendly golf resort was a farce, and only fools could have bought into the promotion.

here is an ecologicallly friendly solution for you golfers: place astroturf over the the greens and let the fairways return to dirt/cactus -- and we will have an ecologically sustainable gold course.

the community should have required the developer to post a bond so there could be money to erase the blight that develops after they go bankrupt.

Pollen - 6-11-2009 at 12:20 PM

There is an interesting post by a Mike R______ on that StarkSilvercreek site:

"
As one of the hundreds of former employees of LBC it pains me to see the project grind to a halt. But it is not particularly surprising. In my opinion LBC was grossly mismanaged by a cadre of alpha males incapable of cooperation with one another. Each department leader worked to achieve his own ends but those ends were not defined with the best interests of the project in mind. Also with so many departments and divisions the company developed the “team island” phenomenon. This is where a team functions well internally, but operates at odds with the other “teams” in play. LBC was a textbook example of this and many other organizational dysfunctions. Lack of cultural sensitivity must qualify as one of these dysfunctions.

I must agree with Alfonso about “Teflon” Toubman. I think that guy makes Machiavelli look like an amateur. Almost universally loathed within the company when I worked there he remains, somehow slipping like a ghost from one portfolio to another, always ready to cast blame with his pink slip in hand, yet curiously taking no responsibility himself for the project’s success (or lack thereof). When I was there he was Director of Operations - Mexico and the project was in freefall, bleeding from innumerable wounds, many of them the result of BAD communications and a disconnect between the employees and management. Coincidence?

When I first arrived in Loreto Bay my first thought was, “Where are all the hippies?” I affectionately refer to “green-minded and green-living” individuals of all backgrounds. The kind that work more for the project than the profits. Instead I found a bunch of slick corporate types who gave lip-service to sustainability and integration in Mexican culture. Sales girls with boob-jobs, miniskirts and manicures. Hardly the back-to-the-land, hardworking green idealists I had hoped to find….

The truth is that sustainability involves having less, not more, but that has traditionally been a
tough message to sell. We were told we could have it all and save the planet, but that is a greenwash.

The project can be salvaged but it is going to need leaders who have the respect of the employees and homeowners. And that involves rolling up the sleeves, working hard for a modest income and leading by example, not by authority.

I have probably said too much already! Reading and writing this has made me reflect on the working relationships and friendships I had, and how much they meant to me. I am angry that so many quality people were hired, just to be fired as a scapegoat to managements ineptitude. i am angry that so many well-intentioned homeowners were lied to, led along or may have suffered financially. I am angry that so much money went to highly-paid consultants instead of hard-working craftspeople. I am angry that such a great vision came to such an ignominious end. And I am angry that in my time there I was unable to rectify some of these issues… the powerless limbo of middle management being what it is….

Thanks for hearing my rant!

Best luck to all and to Loreto in general"

I have to agree with his point and mtgoat- How do you expect a self-sustaining ecoproject to have not only a golf course, but a marina. I would think those would be your first clue that the "Eco" part of this project was just a marketing ploy. There are many ways to make low-impact eco-friendly communities, and they generally seek to mimic local terrain/flora in keeping with the climate, rather than trying to change it.

bajabeachbabe - 6-11-2009 at 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pollen


I have to agree with his point and mtgoat- How do you expect a self-sustaining ecoproject to have not only a golf course, but a marina. I would think those would be your first clue that the "Eco" part of this project was just a marketing ploy. There are many ways to make low-impact eco-friendly communities, and they generally seek to mimic local terrain/flora in keeping with the climate, rather than trying to change it.


LB has a golf course, but no marina.

LB

tehag - 6-11-2009 at 12:30 PM

Been trying to leave this thread alone, but some posters insist on piping up when they know bloody nothing about what's actually on on the ground down here.

The Nopolo golf course was in full operation for ten years before there was even such a thing as Loreto Bay.

As for sustainability, don't confuse that with ecological friendliness. Palm Springs California is a desert with a large number of courses, some of which have a half century of continuous use. They are obviously sustainable. At whose expense is another matter.

Pollen - 6-11-2009 at 12:30 PM

Yeah, but the glossy brochures certainly intimated that there would be a marina.

wilderone - 6-11-2009 at 04:39 PM

Palm Springs isn't on the border of a National Marine Park, with marine/ coastal ecology, watered by a diminishing aquifer, set on what used to be one of the most beautiful of Baja CA bays.

BMG - 6-11-2009 at 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tehag
Been trying to leave this thread alone, but some posters insist on piping up when they know bloody nothing about what's actually on on the ground down here.

The Nopolo golf course was in full operation for ten years before there was even such a thing as Loreto Bay.

I'm confused. Are you saying that the golf course will continue to be maintained?

"TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently."

LB

tehag - 6-11-2009 at 07:13 PM

The point I thought I was making earlier was that sustainability is not a synonym for environmentally friendly or responsible. It simply means that the subject system can continue to operate without alteration or additional input.

The artificial lakes on the course are entirely of reclaimed water, and they are the source of all water used for irrigation. The impact on the water table by the course is negligible. The water has already been used and disposed of by the community at large.

The course is being mowed and watered at present. That cannot last long without an owner/operator. I have heard it will end on the 19th. If it is to be liquidated it would be worth a lot more green than tan. As someone already said here, the soil as prepared for grass planting is unsuitable for most native vegetation. If the watering stops there will soon be 67 acres of dust extending for some time into the future. Not a great sales tool for the area.

camador - 6-12-2009 at 08:15 AM

Troubles go on for Loreto Bay, The Director of Loreto TSD Partners Mauritius Pons, acknowledged that Loreto Bay, has a debt of just over $ 160 million, in addition to asserting that there are no sufficient resources to meet them, so progress that if within a period not longer than 45 days, once the process of liquidation, there is no buyer for the project, definitely stop debt ...

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/12/adeuda-loreto-bay-16...

tigerdog - 6-12-2009 at 10:38 AM

Does anyone know anything about the progress (or lack thereof) on that big development the Villa Group is working on at Ensenada Blanca? Is construction going on there, or is that project on hold (I hope)? Are the timeshare guys still in town yanking anyone who's breathing off the street for a presentation?

Villa Group Project

bajabeachbabe - 6-12-2009 at 12:11 PM

The Villa Group project is going forward. Some of the delays are due to the amount of work involved in getting the environmental permits. The environmental engineer we are using for our building project is working on the Villa Group project. He told us they needed to inventory over 40,000 plants for the submission. :?:

When we were in Loreto in late March, the timeshare people were still out in force, but they didn't seem to be as aggressive as in prior visits.

Martyman - 6-12-2009 at 03:23 PM

I tried to play the course with my two boys and Mother in law. They were going to charge us $350 usd to play and rent clubs. We walked. What do/did you local guys pay to play?

arrowhead - 6-12-2009 at 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
The Villa Group project is going forward.


Oh, heck. All projects in Mexico are going forward...right up until the time they stop. You find out about the stop when the doors are locked and the lights are out.

bajabeachbabe - 6-12-2009 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
The Villa Group project is going forward.


Oh, heck. All projects in Mexico are going forward...right up until the time they stop. You find out about the stop when the doors are locked and the lights are out.


In this case Villa Group is very well funded and has successfully completed this type of project in Cabo and PV many times. Their vacation club has 70,000 members. If you are expecting (hoping) them to fail, I think you will be disappointed. I really don't like the idea of the big mega resort at Ensenada Blanca, but if anyone can pull it off, they can.

Actually, the fact that they are building both at Ensenada Blanca and a hotel directly in town (which will be completed this year), might be the only salvation for poor Loreto. Maybe they will be able to utilize all those displaced workers from the Loreto Bay project. There will be a total of 700 people out of work within the next few days. Villa Group might be their only hope for work in town.

aldosalato - 6-12-2009 at 05:44 PM

posted by aldosalato on 5-16-2004 at 02:47 AM
scam
This kind of project looks more like a scam to get a lot of money through loans out of banks. Many projects like this have failed in Baja in the past but have replenished crooks developers in the past. For sure it is doomed to fail as numbers do NOT add up.

Well we went a long way from 2004......... and now the loss is on the book of Citibank..... (owned by the American taxpayer...and ultimately by Chinese bondholder....)

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by aldosalato]

capt. mike - 6-13-2009 at 07:24 AM

anybody know what's happening with the big JW Marriot condo project www.liveloreto.com
it was supposed to go this year....fat chance??
another project being run by a Snottsdale AZ firm.

longhairedbeatnik - 6-13-2009 at 08:53 AM

The golf course was in use for years before the Loreto Bay gang showed up.
The Mexicans took a great Greg Norman designed track and through lousy maintenance and no oversight ruined a great course. Driving range balls got misplaced and trying to buy golf tees and sleeves of balls was impossible.The scorecards were photocopied and laughable.
We were often quoted several prices for playing on the same day in our group and the carts were never maintained. Just another example of how this town will never recover from this latest land scam.
You never get a second chance for a good first impression.

capt. mike - 6-13-2009 at 11:06 AM

Marriot's deal....

well they are offered at only $700,000......

and they state they have "careful community planning" . is that like sustainable developemnt?? :wow:

nothing much on the blog after feb 2009. seems to have died, ditto on twitter.

poor Loreto.....

bill erhardt - 6-13-2009 at 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe


Actually, the fact that they are building both at Ensenada Blanca and a hotel directly in town (which will be completed this year), might be the only salvation for poor Loreto.


"Poor Loreto"? Loreto was doing just fine before the boondoggles at Puerto Escondido, Loreto Bay, and Ensendada Blanca came along to fleece the gullible and line the pockets of impeccably credentialed "developers" from the north, and will continue to do fine after the remains these and future such projects have receded into the Baja dust.

backninedan - 6-13-2009 at 11:18 AM

Well said Bill, the only thing we stand to lose are time share sharks.

Bajahowodd - 6-13-2009 at 11:52 AM

As was previously posted, aside from the world-wide financial crunch, Villa Group is very well situated. Friends just came back from one of their established properties in Cabo, and the timeshare herd was all over the place. There was a time when the units were sold on a fixed week basis. The accounting geniuses figured out that by selling floating time, they could actually sell more unit/ weeks than actual rooms they had. My point here is that since Villa has so many sold units elsewhere, they can easily incentivize trading to their Loreto properties, thus establishing and maintaining a high occupancy rate. So, whatever happens to Loreto Bay, the Villa projects are going forward, like it or not.

rhintransit - 6-13-2009 at 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
As was previously posted, aside from the world-wide financial crunch, Villa Group is very well situated. Friends just came back from one of their established properties in Cabo, and the timeshare herd was all over the place. There was a time when the units were sold on a fixed week basis. The accounting geniuses figured out that by selling floating time, they could actually sell more unit/ weeks than actual rooms they had. My point here is that since Villa has so many sold units elsewhere, they can easily incentivize trading to their Loreto properties, thus establishing and maintaining a high occupancy rate. So, whatever happens to Loreto Bay, the Villa projects are going forward, like it or not.

.
who can say. I'm getting deja vu here, though...sounds like all the hype and positive thinking I've heard from Loreto Bay backers/workers/'investors' and homeowners since 2004. time will tell.

bill erhardt - 6-13-2009 at 12:32 PM

Odd....... Oh, yes. The Ensenada Blanca project is different. "they can easily incentivize trading to their Loreto properties, thus establishing and maintaining a high occupancy rate." Different jargon than the "sustainablity" of Loreto Bay, which as recently as a couple of weeks ago was going forward in spite of the writing on the wall, but the same old hype. Plunk your money down and turn a dollar by investing in a gringo enclave in Mexico. At least you stop short of characterizing it as the salvation of Loreto.

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by bill erhardt]

Bajahowodd - 6-13-2009 at 01:01 PM

Perhaps some of the more knowledgeable Loretanos can answer this. I, personally have never considered Loreto as my destination, but rather a place to stop in as I travel up and down the peninsula. As much as I have enjoyed staying there, I have never spent enough time to familiarize myself with the area, beyond the obvious. Anyway, I was wondering, with respect to the many workers finding themselves out of jobs because of the implosion at Loreto Bay. Who are these folks? Are they long-time locals? Or are they transients? I ask this question as I have a familiarity with the development of Cabo. As there were few people indigenous, workers were imported by the boatload from the mainland. They lived in sub-human conditions for years.

flyfishinPam - 6-13-2009 at 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bill erhardt
Odd....... Oh, yes. The Ensenada Blanca project is different. "they can easily incentivize trading to their Loreto properties, thus establishing and maintaining a high occupancy rate." Different jargon than the "sustainablity" of Loreto Bay, which as recently as a couple of weeks ago was going forward in spite of the writing on the wall, but the same old hype. Plunk your money down and turn a dollar by investing in a gringo enclave in Mexico. At least you stop short of characterizing it as the salvation of Loreto.

[Edited on 6-13-2009 by bill erhardt]


Excellent couple of posts Bill. Once these marine park meetings get past phase two you ought to have a look at Eco Alianza´s projects. We are doing some great things and could always use support. Let's remember that as you so beautifully reminded readers that Loreto was established 312 years ago and LB only started to get going in 2004.

www.ecoalianzaloreto.org

arrowhead - 6-13-2009 at 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
In this case Villa Group is very well funded and has successfully completed this type of project in Cabo and PV many times. Their vacation club has 70,000 members. If you are expecting (hoping) them to fail, I think you will be disappointed.


Well, for starters, there is no such thing as a well funded timeshare operation. They are giant ponzi schemes that rely upon getting new money from new timeshare buyers to keep the project going. If the new buyers stop, the whole thing collapses. So, where are all the new buyers coming from? The US? Lorteto is a destination resort that is hard, and expenseive, to get to. This project was conceived back in the salad days. Now we are into macaroni and cheese.

Bajahowodd - 6-13-2009 at 04:57 PM

I partially agree. A mature time share project has a huge positive cash flow. As I previously posted, there is really nothing to stop the developers from over-selling the units. Face it. Cabo would never have grown so large so quickly, if it wasn't for the time share concept. But, you are correct, that in present day terms, Loreto does not shine as a destination for the average time share owner or buyer. Way too expensive to fly to, and lacking in things to do. Hence, the opportunity for an outfit like Villas to incentivize the experience.

i don't think that is correct

capt. mike - 6-14-2009 at 07:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
In this case Villa Group is very well funded and has successfully completed this type of project in Cabo and PV many times. Their vacation club has 70,000 members. If you are expecting (hoping) them to fail, I think you will be disappointed.


Well, for starters, there is no such thing as a well funded timeshare operation. They are giant ponzi schemes that rely upon getting new money from new timeshare buyers to keep the project going. If the new buyers stop, the whole thing collapses. So, where are all the new buyers coming from? The US? Lorteto is a destination resort that is hard, and expenseive, to get to. This project was conceived back in the salad days. Now we are into macaroni and cheese.


there are too many successful vaca interval ownership resorts about. once the developer sells sufficiently he can return the capital to build it. then the gravy flows and the maintenance fees handle that. I have friends in the industry, specifically with Monarch Grand Vacations.
and today the savvy projects have converted - you don't buy a dedicated period for a dedicated property - you buy interval points you can use at sister properties whenever you want to book. it is a good deal vs rack rates at destination resorts.

the well run properties have cycles sure, but can be cash cows. Mayan palace properties are another great example of how it is done.

Bajahowodd - 6-14-2009 at 12:58 PM

Mayan! Even been to the one in San Jose? The entrance reminds me of something Disney would design. Actually eerie.

Cypress - 6-14-2009 at 01:49 PM

Breaking News? OK. :D As Barney Fife would say "Surprise, Surprise".:lol:

Let's get our facts straight.

Dave - 6-14-2009 at 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Breaking News? OK. :D As Barney Fife would say "Surprise, Surprise".:lol:


It was Gomer.

Cypress - 6-14-2009 at 02:37 PM

Dave, Thanks. I get 'em mixed up.

Skeet/Loreto - 6-14-2009 at 02:45 PM

As I was present at the building of the 2nd Presidente which was located at Nopollo, I can tell you that many workers were brought in from the Mainland. I can aslo tell you that the Golf Course was "Sponsered by MacEnroe. A huge sign was present at the entrance for many years. Also George Bush the first paid a visit as well as Ford Motor company. However that being said there was nothing done for the Workers when that project failed to even fill up all the rooms.
For awhile we had some great Buffets and dancin every Friday nite.

Also the Gay hoars were brought in from La Paz and the Medics were swamped with problems until one day the local and Feds gave all the "Gays" 48 Hours to leave Loreto, they even provided the busess to transport them South.

Many of the sons and daughters of the workers from the mainland moved North and never went back home or came back to Loreto. I fear that the same thing will happen this time only it is gettin crowded in TJ.

Skeet

DENNIS - 6-14-2009 at 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I can aslo tell you that the Golf Course was "Sponsered by MacEnroe.


Skeeter...I think John McEnroe was a tennis player.

I told you so, I told you so!!!

Sharksbaja - 6-14-2009 at 03:35 PM

"suspends operation"



Yep, and I'm personally thrilled about that cancer being stopped..

Sorry for all the people they raped, pillaged and plundered. Hope they get restitution tho will most likely get this::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

comitan - 6-14-2009 at 03:39 PM

Dennis

You are right and they had a tennis tournament there with John Mc Enroe as the highlight.

Guess where the LB Chaos and Controversy came from

Don Alley - 6-14-2009 at 04:00 PM

From the NY Times archives

Quote:
AMID 1985 TURMOIL, McENROE FINDS SOME PEACE
By ROY S. JOHNSON
IT is early morning. Much too early, it seems, for John McEnroe. He is standing, tall and slender with his uncombed curly locks blowing in the breeze, in the middle of the tarmac here at the airport in this tiny, remote town on the eastern coast of Lower California. He says nothing. But his look - tiny eyes squinting in the sunlight above an angular, unshaven jaw and a thin half-smile -conveyed much more about his state of mind last Saturday than any words could have. Clearly, McEnroe would rather have remained in bed. Instead, he is leaving Loreto, where he is in the second year of a five-year contract to serve as the touring pro for the newly built Loreto Tennis Center, and boarding a seven-passenger jet for Mexico City. There, he and three other professional tennis players will meet President Miguel de la Madrid of Mexico and his wife, Paloma, then stage an exhibition that will raise $80,000 to aid victims of the devastating earthquake that rocked the country earlier this year. As McEnroe settles comfortably into the leather seat, the rising sun creates a stunning montage of browns, reds and yellows on the majestic Sierra de la Gigante, visible through the small window beside him. The result is a portrait of serenity that somehow seems odd. Odd because serenity is a condition that tends to avoid John McEnroe. Chaos and controversy stalk him instead.

Skeet/Loreto - 6-14-2009 at 04:54 PM

Sorry folks I just had a slip of the Tennis Court/Golf Course.

I was there for the opening when Viki Carr was there to do some beautiful singing.{It was held at the Tennis Club.


PS McEnroe never came back to Loreto.

Don Alley - 6-14-2009 at 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Also the Gay hoars were brought in from La Paz and the Medics were swamped with problems until one day the local and Feds gave all the "Gays" 48 Hours to leave Loreto, they even provided the busess to transport them South.

Skeet


Hey Skeet, I saw Manuel in La Paz and he says to say "Hi!"


Yuk, yuk

Dave - 6-14-2009 at 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Also the Gay hoars were brought in from La Paz and the Medics were swamped with problems until one day the local and Feds gave all the "Gays" 48 Hours to leave Loreto, they even provided the busess to transport them South.


I think they all went to Capistrano.

Skeet/Loreto - 6-15-2009 at 06:17 AM

There were several who stayed and became part of the Community and when I talked to them a couple of months ageo, all were doing well and now have Grandchildren in Loreto.

The same will happen with the workers brought in for the Villages Scam.

From today's Tribunal

bajajudy - 6-15-2009 at 09:32 AM

Hoy reabrirá sus puertas el complejo Loreto Bay



Por gestiones de NAM Foantur asumirá la operación y administración del desarrollo en tanto se promueve su venta A solicitud el gobernador Narciso Agúndez Montaño, la Dirección nacional el Fondo Nacional de Turismo (Fonatur) asumirá a partir de este lunes la operación y administración del hotel Loreto Inn y del campo de golf que forman parte el complejo turístico Loreto Bay, luego de que la empresa desarrolladora TDS Loreto partners se declarara en quiebra y procediera a su cierre y despido de más de 400 trabajadores; esto en tanto se promueve su venta ante empresarios nacionales o de la región con el fin de garantizar la reactivación de este proyecto inmobiliario y turístico. El gobernador Narciso Agúndez sostuvo una reunión cn el director General de Fonatur Miguel Gómez Mont, en donde el jefe del Ejecutivo estatal dejó en claro que el Gobierno del Estado no permitirá el retroceso de Loreto como destino turístico, y por ello anunció que una vez garantizada la operación el hotel y del campo de golf, en el mes de julio se reanudará también el vuelo Ciudad de México-Loreto-San Diego, a través de Aeromexico con el fin e incrementar el flujo de turista tanto del interior del país como el sur de California hacia este destino. Explicó que el compromiso de Fonatur es mediar con banamex city group para acelerar el proceso de venta del Hotel, Campo de Golf y zona residencial que forman parte del complejo Loreto Bay privilegiando a empresarios de la región, del país y como última opción del extranjero. “Lo más importante de todo esto es que el hotel reiniciará operaciones este lunes y que se resuelve el problema y la preocupación que había generado el cierre del campo de golf, ya que si éste no recibe el mantenimiento necesario prácticamente se pierde e menos de un mes. El campo de golf es un atractivo importante en Loreto y su pérdida sería un duro golpe del que difícilmente se recuperaría este destino turístico”, sostuvo el jefe del Ejecutivo estatal. El gobernador Narciso Agúndez reconoció que el despegue de Loreto como destino turístico ha sido difícil, principalmente por la crisis financiera internacional y nacional, factores como la influenza humana y el cierre de vuelos hacia el interior el país y la costa Oeste de Estados Unidos, a lo que se suma el quiebre de Fadesa y la suspensión del proyecto de Loreto Paraíso, y ahora el cierre de Loreto Bay bajo la administración de TDS Loreto partners, filial de city group. No obstante, reiteró que los loretanos no están solos en su esfuerzo por que Loreto alcance un mayor desarrollo a través del turismo, por lo que está garantizado el reinicio del vuelo Ciudad de México-Loreto-San Diego, una agresiva campaña de promoción de sus atractivos y servicios en segmentos de mercado bien definidos y al mismo tiempo la apertura de una nueva terminal aeroportuaria, más funcional y acorde a la imagen que se quiere proyectar. “A el Gobierno del Estado le preocupaba el cierre del Campo de Golf y del hotel Loreto INN. Este problema ya está resuelto según nos informa el director del Fonatur Miguel Gómez Mont”, subrayó el gobernador Agúndez quien de igual forma admitió que el reto será ahora reactivar la parte del negocio residencial e inmobiliario de Loreto Bay para recuperar los empleos ´perdidos con la suspensión de los procesos de construcción y mantenimiento de residencias, condominios y zona comercial. Asimismo, aseguró que el Gobierno del Estado mantendrá la inversión en infraestructura y n el mejoramiento de la imagen urbana de Loreto con el fin de seguir generando las condiciones para su desarrollo turístico. Advirtió que a través de las instancias de competencia laboral, el Gobierno el Estado estará atento a los procesos de liquidación de los empleados que eran parte de la construcción de las residencias y zona comercial del proyecto de Loreto Bay y que en su mayoría provienen del interior del país, por ser contratados y traídos al estado por constructoras que mantenían relación con TDS Loreto 0artners.

sloppy translation

bajajudy - 6-15-2009 at 09:35 AM

I dont have the time right now to do this justice but here is kinda what the above says

For administrations of NAM Foantur it will assume the operation and administration of the development as long as their sale is promoted TO application governor Narciso Agúndez Montaño, the national Address the National Fund of Tourism (Fonatur) it will assume starting from this Monday the operation and administration of the hotel Loreto Inn and of the golf field that you/they are part the tourist complex Loreto Bay, after the company desarrolladora TDS Loreto partners was declared in crash and it proceeded to its closing and discharge of more than 400 workers; this as long as their sale is promoted before national managers or of the region with the purpose of guaranteeing the reactivación of this real state and tourist project. Governor Narciso Agúndez sustained a meeting cn the General director of Fonatur Miguel Gómez Mont where the state Executive's boss left in undoubtedly the State government won't allow the setback of Loreto like tourist destination, and for she/he announced it that once guaranteed the operation the hotel and of the golf field, in the month of July it will also be renewed the flight City of Mexico-Loreto-San Diego, through Aeromexico with the end and to increase the flow of so much tourist of the interior of the country like the south of California toward this destination. She/he explained that the commitment of Fonatur is to mediate with banamex city group to accelerate the process of sale of the Hotel, Field of Golf and residential area that are part of the complex Loreto Bay privileging managers of the region, of the country and as the foreigner's last option. “The most important thing of all this is that the hotel will restart operations this Monday and that she/he is solved the problem and the concern that it had generated the closing of the golf field, since if this doesn't receive the necessary maintenance practically she/he gets lost and less than one month. The golf field is an important attractiveness in Loreto and its loss would be a hard blow of the one that difficultly would recover this tourist destination”, the state Executive's boss sustained. Governor Narciso Agúndez recognized that the take off of Loreto like tourist destination has been difficult, mainly for the international and national financial crisis, factors like the human influenza and the closing of flights toward the interior the country and the coast West of United States, to what sinks the one break of Fadesa and the suspension of Loreto Paradise's project, and now Loreto Bay closing under the administration of TDS Loreto partners, branch of city group. Nevertheless, it reiterated that the loretanos is not alone in their effort for that Loreto reaches a bigger development through the tourism, for what is guaranteed the I restart of the flight City of Mexico-Loreto-San Diego, an aggressive campaign of promotion of their attractiveness and services in very defined market segments and at the same time the opening of a new terminal aeroportuaria, more functional and chord to the image that she/he wants to be projected. “The closing of the Field of Golf worried to the State government and of the hotel Loreto INN. This problem is already resolved as the director of the Fonatur informs us Miguel Gómez Mont”, governor Agúndez underlined who forms of equal it admitted that the challenge will be now to reactivate the part of Loreto Bay residential and real state business to recover the employments ´perdidos with the suspension of the construction processes and maintenance of residences, condominiums and commercial area. Also, it assured that the State government will maintain the investment in infrastructure and n the improvement of the urban image of Loreto with the purpose of continuing generating the conditions for its tourist development. She/he noticed that through the instances of labor competition, the Government the State will be attentive to the processes of the employees' liquidation that were part of the construction of the residences and commercial area of Loreto Bay project and that in its majority they come from the interior of the country, to be hired and brought to the state by manufacturers that maintained relationship with TDS Loreto 0artners.

Martyman - 6-15-2009 at 10:00 AM

Quote:
Also George Bush the first paid a visit as well as Ford Motor company. and dancin every Friday nite,Also the Gay hoars were brought in from La Paz and the Medics were swamped with problems until one day the local and Feds gave all the "Gays" 48 Hours to leave Loreto, Skeet


I was wondering who George stayed with...

Bajahowodd - 6-15-2009 at 10:16 AM

Talk about tickling old memories. I had forgotten all that hoopla almost 25 years ago.

camador - 6-15-2009 at 10:36 AM

As bajajudy said, there are some good news for Loreto's people, FONATUR will take care of the golf course and the inn at loreto bay hotel, here is the full note http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/15/asumira-fonatur-oper...

vandenberg - 6-15-2009 at 12:23 PM

On the Loreto Silver Stark site:


.Home > Loreto Baja > Loreto Bay > Breaking news: Inn at Loreto Bay to possibly re-open under FONATUR control
Breaking news: Inn at Loreto Bay to possibly re-open under FONATUR control
by Clinton Stark on Monday, June 15, 2009Leave a Comment.An article today in the Tribuna de Los Cabos indicates that the Inn at Loreto Bay will re-open, just days after shutting down last week due to TSD Loreto Partners ceasing operation. The governor Narciso Agundez Montano made the request to the director general, Miguel Gomez Mont, at FONATUR.

Some other highlights from the article:

■The golf course will also re-open today
■TSD Loreto Partners has declared bankruptcy
■AeroMexico will resume flights in July
■The move is purported to help accelerate the sale of the Inn, golf course and Loreto Bay development
■The new Loreto (LTO) airport terminal may also be opening at the same time
“Most important of all this it is that the hotel will re-initiate operations this Monday and that the problem is solved and the preoccupation that had generated the closing of the golf course, since if this one practically does not receive the necessary maintenance it loses and a month less than. The golf course is attractive an important one in Loreto and its loss would be a hard blow that hardly would recover this tourist destiny”, maintained the head of the state Executive. (note: transalated from Spanish)

This makes a lot of sense if the story turns out to be true. The Mexican government should step-up wherever possible to restore the tarnished image of Mexico as a tourist destination. Recent events such as the Swine Flu and the on-going drug wars have not helped the country whose economy relies so heavily on tourism and direct foreign investment.

Further, recently failed projects such as the port development in Puerto Escondido can quickly de-generate into eye sores, and reminders of the challenges of successfully building in the Loreto and Nopolo regions.

Early reports from the ground in Loreto, Baja California Sur, however, still suggest no activity is taking place and that the Inn is still closed.

[Source: Tribuna de Los Cabos]

arrowhead - 6-15-2009 at 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
Hoy reabrirá sus puertas el complejo Loreto Bay.


Well, the article says that the government is stepping in to keep the Hotel and Golf Course operating while they try to find a buyer to take over the Hotel, Golf Course and home development. It says if the golf course is not maintained, it will turn to crap in a month. The actions are being taken to keep the flow of tourists coming to Loreto. Their concern is for the flow of tourist dollars into the Loreto economy.

They are doing nothing for the homeowners who paid for homes that were not delivered. There is nothing in the article that gives even one iota of hope to the homebuyers who are sucking air.

bajabeachbabe - 6-15-2009 at 02:29 PM

Quote:


They are doing nothing for the homeowners who paid for homes that were not delivered. There is nothing in the article that gives even one iota of hope to the homebuyers who are sucking air.


The homeowners have a very limited time to take their destiny into their own hands. Per the update from The Construction Coach on the link below, they have until Friday to get contracts set up with the contractors currently on site before they fold up and leave.

http://www.tccloreto.com/TCC_Update__15_-_13June09.pdf

Cypress - 6-15-2009 at 02:33 PM

Shouldn't be hard to keep that little dinky golf course going, What is it? Maybe 2.5 acres?:lol:

Pollen - 6-15-2009 at 03:50 PM

Evidently Agua Vida is just really a flavor of Kool-Aid they were all drinking.

arrowhead - 6-15-2009 at 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe

The homeowners have a very limited time to take their destiny into their own hands. Per the update from The Construction Coach on the link below, they have until Friday to get contracts set up with the contractors currently on site before they fold up and leave.

http://www.tccloreto.com/TCC_Update__15_-_13June09.pdf


That letter is an absolute fraud being foisted on those poor homebuyers. Citigroup has the lien on all the assets. If the homebuyers continue to fund construction, all they are doing is improving the value of Citigroup's collateral. Unless there is a firm written committment from Citigroup to release each home from all its liens, along with the release from all the contractors, this proposal is nada.

Boy, I hope those buyers have a lawyer.

Its a scam

longhairedbeatnik - 6-15-2009 at 04:16 PM

No homeowner should finish their home until a release of the collective debt is given to each and every one of them. Already my friend there has had an email from someone wanting to take over the duties of the HOA and please send a check asap or else. The fraud squad has lined up and the lines in the sand are drawn.
What BS. Sign up with a new contractor or what, the workers will go away? Its is such crap. Not one of these homeowners has anything until the debt on the whole project is assigned to someone other than them.
Let the places sit a couple of months until the slimey leftover people from Loreto Bay and their subs have been flushed from the area.:fire:

vandenberg - 6-15-2009 at 06:23 PM

This afternoon's update according to Stark Silver Creek site regarding the hotel and golfcourse reopening.

(UPDATE @ 2:34pm pacific: additional sources suggest this may not be happening as reported by The Tribuna de Los Cabos, and could possibly be politically motivated. Others are speculating the Inn will re-open, but it will take longer than originally reported. Stay tuned.)

wilderone - 6-16-2009 at 08:49 AM

I hope they rename it Camino Real Loreto. Now that's shrewd - re-acquire the hotel and golf course in their improved condition and run it for profit - it's about the only thing there that ever made money and ever can. I'll bet its severed from the LB sale package later with a huge pricetag representing the bailout.

capt. mike - 6-16-2009 at 09:07 AM

just a Q - curiosity.....
is there such a thing as bankruptcy or chapter filings for personal or biz in mexico?? - debt discharge etc.? restructuring protected, re organizations, structured work outs and the like??
any abogados or those in the know here?

camador - 6-16-2009 at 09:16 AM

Today the state governor announced the application of resources to Baja California Sur 3 main destinations, Los Cabos, La Paz and Loreto.

http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/16/ponen-en-marcha-camp...

This governor

toneart - 6-16-2009 at 01:37 PM

means what he says. He came to Mulege after Hurricane John, met with the whole community; nationals, the business community and the gringos. He assessed the situation, made promises and followed through. Improvements to the north side of the river road are ongoing.

I believe he will do what he can with whatever money he can shake loose. I have never seen a politician get so involved and then follow through.

Fonatur began construction at Napolo long before the Loreto Bay Project came in. You can see the houses they built as you enter from the highway. As I read his intentions, he will keep up the maintenance and operate the hotel until another buyer comes in. Hang on. It will probably take awhile. It is doubtful the government can rescue the homeowners that were left without a house they paid for.

Without going into detail, I have witnessed other developments that had left homeowners holding the bag. The best they could do was to hire contractors to complete their homes. Yes, they had to come up with more money besides the money they had already paid and lost.
Band together as a community. Help each other.
There is not much recourse in Mexico.

Woooosh - 6-18-2009 at 08:09 AM

A lot of this info was covered- but here's todays take from the Union Tribune:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/18/1b18loret...

Southern Baja resort project falls victim to financial woes
Government agency asks to take over struggling development

By Sandra Dibble, Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. June 18, 2009

Like other tourist-oriented real estate projects on the Baja California peninsula, the planned 6,000-unit Loreto Bay development has struggled under daunting market conditions. With fewer than 800 units sold, the Mexican development company TSD Loreto Partners this month announced the suspension of construction and operations. Last week, the golf course and 155-room hotel were shuttered. But yesterday, Mexico's tourism development agency, Fonatur, said it was asking for custody of both facilities so they could reopen while a buyer is sought for the project.
“The golf course is an important attraction in Loreto, and its loss would be a great blow, from which this tourist destination would not easily recover,” Narciso Agúndez, governor of Baja California Sur, said in a statement Sunday after meeting in Mexico City with Fonatur Director Miguel Gómez Montt.

Heavily marketed to U.S. and Canadian baby boomers, the Villages of Loreto Bay was launched in 2002 by an Arizona company as a series of environmentally friendly seaside communities. For Fonatur, Loreto Bay was to be the cornerstone of a major tourist destination planned since the 1970s in this picturesque desert community about 750 miles from San Diego.

Supporters of the Fonatur plan said it would bring much-needed development to Loreto, a town of 15,000 founded in 1697 as a Jesuit mission. For all its beauty and rich history, the town offered few economic opportunities to local residents, they said.

But critics said the region lacks the water resources for a proposal that they said would bring in up to 220,000 residents. What no one foresaw was the drastic drop in demand for vacation homes as the U.S. and Canadian economies suffered and credit grew tighter.

A 2005 study commissioned by the San Diego-based International Community Foundation stated that desalination is the only apparent option if Loreto were to grow beyond 30,000 people. But desalination, it warned, could potentially damage ecosystems in the Loreto Bay National Marine Park.

In a four-sentence announcement sent to Loreto Bay homeowners June 6, TSD Loreto Partners, whose major lender is Citigroup Property Investors, stated that “due to the challenging situation in the international real estate and financial markets, all operating and construction activities for Loreto Bay will be suspended.”

Though several potential buyers have visited the project in recent months, the project “has been unable to secure a buyer or new investor,” the statement said.

In the statement released Sunday, Agúndez pledged support for Loreto Bay, saying “Loretanos are not alone in their effort to make Loreto develop through tourism.”

Agúndez announced that the Mexican airline Aeromexico next month will resume a San Diego-Loreto-Mexico City flight suspended in 2006, though Aeromexico did not confirm the flights yesterday.

Agúndez said the suspension of operations at the project has led to the layoff of 400 workers. Because many are from mainland Mexico, that poses a potential “social problem” for the local community, said Ramón Romero Amador, the municipality's secretary general.

In a telephone interview, he said the government has secured funds to send workers back to their home communities.

Still, he added, “there is much optimism and hope, and we believe that this project will continue.”

Pascal Pellegrino, president of Loreto's Hotel Association, said he supported the government's actions. The development, he said “needs to be sold soon, so that it doesn't remain as an unfinished project.”
Pellegrino said Loreto needs growth, “but we must keep it on a human dimension. We want projects developed with the standards of conservation that are applied around the world.”

Brian Durnian, a Napa Valley real estate agent, purchased a three-bedroom, two-bath adobe at Loreto Bay with his brother. With construction on the $400,000 property finished three years ago, Durnian said he was not worried.

Durnian said that like many buyers, he was drawn to the region because it offered a slower pace than Cabo San Lucas, at the peninsula's southern tip. “This is more planned growth. I love it down there.”

Bob and Susan - 6-18-2009 at 09:20 AM

we drove in monday morning...

trash men were picking up trash
water trucks were watering the trees

mowers were on the golf course
a guy was "playing" golf

sprinklers were wtering the grass

workers were building "stuff"

looked pretty busy for a "shut down" place

wakemall - 6-21-2009 at 09:29 PM

The last post was on June 18th by Bob and Susan. You think someone else would have backed up the comment regarding the continual work at LB by this time? I will be in Loreto July 5th. I will make a visit to the site and post more info when I get home on July 13th.

djh - 6-21-2009 at 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wakemall
You think someone else would have backed up the comment regarding the continual work at LB by this time?


Bob and Susan have a stellar reputation with fellow Nomads... Their comments don't need to be backed up ;D

djh

gnukid - 6-21-2009 at 10:06 PM

The Loreto golf course was tied separately from the LB Condo project, this was one of the reasons the project was destined to fail according to resort developers who declined to back the project. Since the Golf Course is among the few functioning in the region, it has received some funding and commitment as part of the new 100,000,000 peso general tourism commitment announced by Agundez in the days following the closure announcement. All of this was posted here on BN.

backninedan - 6-22-2009 at 08:54 AM

I don't question what Bob and Susan saw, its just that they saw the lipstick on the pig. It is every bit the mess that has been reported.

I do hope they continue to maintain the golf course, be a shame to have the only all dust course in baja.

arrowhead - 6-22-2009 at 11:46 AM

There is a plausible explanation for the apparent contradictory observations here. There are some custom homebuilders operating at Loreto Bay who are unrelated to the now bankrupt company and who are still building homes.

http://nopolonews.com/nopoloblog/?p=516

However, don't be mistaken, the Loreto Bay company is deader than Kelso's nuts.

Bob and Susan - 6-22-2009 at 11:57 AM

we were only there for a couple of minutes on the way to la paz

lots of workers though

CaboRon - 6-22-2009 at 12:39 PM

This was just posted on the Genera Discussion thread by Captain Sharky: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=39430

LORETO BAY



This has probably already been posted, but I just got home last night from Loreto. Loreto Bay has been closed down---including the hotel. Word is that Fonatur will have to complete the project. Only security guards there now. Playa Ensenada Blanca still building, but who wants time shares these days. Loreto is pretty much deserted except for the local gringos living there. No tourists to sell time shares to. Mission Inn is selling timeshares if you can stand the smell on the corner. Dodo fishing is on and off. Good weather but a little hot for me. Won't go back until October now. Loreto needs your business, so, if you want to go fishing, go now. Discounts everywhere--if you just ask for them.

flyfishinPam - 6-22-2009 at 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
we drove in monday morning...

trash men were picking up trash
water trucks were watering the trees

mowers were on the golf course
a guy was "playing" golf

sprinklers were wtering the grass

workers were building "stuff"

looked pretty busy for a "shut down" place


official closure was June 19th.

Baja&Back - 6-22-2009 at 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
I knew we could count on CaboRon to post one of his general doom and gloom messages. Maybe he oughta change his name to LasVegasRon.


You haven't learned yet from the endless stories of Americans being ripped off by mexicans ??

Get your head out of the sand :lol:



Scuse me, Ron: the rip off artist in this case, Butterfield, is a Canadian from Calgary.

Maybe someone should lay charges against him & have him extridited to Mexico to work on a road crew to pay for all the funds he liberated.

wakemall - 6-22-2009 at 07:35 PM

Why does everyone start throwing knives from a simple comment?

DJH: I did not ever mean to questioned Bob and Susan for their post. I just thought there would be more info being posted because so many people lost so much money as a result of LB. I just thought more Loreto Nomads would respond upon what they saw.

The response CaboRon posted came from a friend of mine that just got back from Loreto. No BS or politics. The place is shut down except for the private and separate construction workers not associated with LB. Maybe that is why Nomads still see some construction going on?

That was intended to be the basic question. Nothing mean or questionable was intended.

I met a really really nice woman on the plane last month that was going to see her place in LB. I had someone picking me up at the airport and she accepted my invitation for a ride from the airport. I told her about my little shack and she agreed to check it out. We went back to my place first and she told us her story. Sorry, no Penthouse Forum stuff... Super nice woman that is on the politically correct side. Great discussions with my brother and neighbor. That is another story.

She is the owner of several real estate companies and knew and researched the beach front opportunities. Guess what, Loreto Bay was sold to her as the best investment. These people that stole all this money from hard working people that invested their retirement in this community need to be shot.

Somebody said Buttefield has a house in Loreto? Tell me where it is? It does not matter if it is Mexico. Stealing is stealing. Period.....

CaboRon - 6-23-2009 at 07:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja&Back
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
I knew we could count on CaboRon to post one of his general doom and gloom messages. Maybe he oughta change his name to LasVegasRon.


You haven't learned yet from the endless stories of Americans being ripped off by mexicans ??

Get your head out of the sand :lol:



Scuse me, Ron: the rip off artist in this case, Butterfield, is a Canadian from Calgary.

Maybe someone should lay charges against him & have him extridited to Mexico to work on a road crew to pay for all the funds he liberated.


I stand corrected ....

What I should have said was .....

This is just another example of Americans being ripped off

IN Mexico ...

You may call me doom and gloom, however consider

The millions of dollars in rip offs that have been the direct

result of either a lack of enforcement,

or the lack of laws to protect the home buyers in mexico ...

It is a deeply flawed system that seems to be entirely the result of rampant corruption ....

Be very wary of investing in mexico where there is

NO Rule of law ...... :cool:

















[Edited on 6-23-2009 by CaboRon]

k-rico - 6-23-2009 at 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

Be very wary of investing in mexico where there is

NO Rule of law ...... :cool:

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by CaboRon]


I can't help it. We hear you Ron, for the gazillionth time.

Ron, can you say "Bernie Madoff?" 50 BILLION dollars - probably more thievery than all Mexicans put togther for all time.

If you're so worried about average Americans getting ripped off, you should focus on Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue.

Rule of law, yeah right.

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by k-rico]

CaboRon - 6-23-2009 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

Be very wary of investing in mexico where there is

NO Rule of law ...... :cool:

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by CaboRon]


I can't help it. We hear you Ron, for the gazillionth time.

Ron, can you say "Bernie Madoff?" 50 BILLION dollars - probably more thievery than all Mexicans put togther for all time.

If you're so worried about average Americans getting ripped off, you should focus on Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue.

Rule of law, yeah right.

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by k-rico]


I would, however this is a forum about La Baja :lol:

And there seem to be some Nomads who try to suppress and censure the truth ....

So, I am duty bound to remind especially the new readers ....



[Edited on 6-23-2009 by CaboRon]

tripledigitken - 6-23-2009 at 09:02 AM

Loreto Bay aside, as I don't thing too many Nomads own property in LB, there are many here that have bought property in Baja (and the mainland) and are happy with their purchase.

My personal thoughts on buying RE in Baja are that it's NOT an investment for profit, but for a lifestyle.

Ken

Caboron I'm sorry your experience in Baja didn't match your dream!

Juan del Rio - 6-24-2009 at 02:32 PM

I drove by yesterday on my way to the airport and from the road, the "greens" appear to be turning brown and there are many dead palm trees.

Bajahowodd - 6-24-2009 at 02:36 PM

So, CaboRon has his duty. no smirks allowed.:lol:

flyfishinPam - 6-24-2009 at 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Juan del Rio
I drove by yesterday on my way to the airport and from the road, the "greens" appear to be turning brown and there are many dead palm trees.


geeze I haven't been south of town for several weeks but that is sad as hell. for the first time that course looked presentable. what a freaking waste of everything.

vandenberg - 6-24-2009 at 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
So, I am duty bound to remind especially the new readers ....


Like our Maxine says:

noname.jpg - 28kB

LB

tehag - 6-24-2009 at 03:39 PM

The Nopolo golf course is being watered and semi-maintained at present. Brown greens are not yet in evidence. Some dry looking palms are in sight from the highway and may be dead or maybe just recently moved. More likely the latter. Again, there is much information on offer here for which the sources are somewhat remote.

timmurphy - 7-6-2009 at 06:29 PM

i understand the reasoning on both sides.alas...i sit on the fence awaiting more concrete info.all i know is that i am tired of all the regulation.i go here to be free,however,respectful of the laws and the people.i have all the permits already and seems like more caca keeps coming at you.i do not overfish,i leave my campsite cleaner than how i found it and i am very generous with the locals and consider them my brother.i support the locals everywhere i go with my rich gringo dinero.i think it is just the principle here that ruffles the fur for some.i dunno...maybe i will still go to BA this fall (wonderful place and people) maybe i will go to my own bioreserve instead and not worry bout anything except solitude and continued respect for the land and the people.oh what the hell...i will go...whats a few dollars more in the big picture....
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