BajaNomad - Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

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monoloco - 4-27-2010 at 06:14 PM

I wish all the illegal aliens would just leave Arizona so we could see their ag industry fail, restaurants with nobody to work the kitchens, and fat yuppies mowing their own yards.

oldlady - 4-27-2010 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
No, and that's a good thing because Mexican immigration law requires that I carry them.

US law is the same. Non-citizens are required to carry their immigration documents, visa, "green card" etc.

oxxo - 4-27-2010 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaboyNo, they ask you for the other papers in your wallet :lol:

Only lazy people pay mordita. There is no "requirement" that you pay.

JESSE - 4-27-2010 at 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

I read the actual law directly from the Arizona gov, and its obvious lawyers where very careful to use wording that would not technically get the state in trouble, but in reality, allow cops to stop anybody at any time.

In reality, any cop, anywhere can stop anyone at any time...

Even in Mexico. :rolleyes:

In reality, that doesn't happen very often, and even less, do they ask you for papers proving your immigration status. :rolleyes:

No, they ask you for the other papers in your wallet :lol:

True, but it has nothing to do with race.

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:26 PM

Dave. Not neccisarily true. read the law. says proof of citizenship. They haven't decided what that means

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
and even less, do they ask you for papers proving your immigration status. :rolleyes:

No, and that's a good thing because Mexican immigration law requires that I carry them.

BTW, they usually do ask for a drivers license which just happens to be all that's needed to prove compliance with Arizona's new law.

New immigration law

jeremias - 4-27-2010 at 06:26 PM

Anybody think the new immigration legislation will create any sort of backlash on U.S citizens traveling or living in Mexico? Just a thought.

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:29 PM

You hit it on the head. Racist. "mex law" "f them"

Mike. do us a favor and stay the H out of Mexico. We did not take it during the war and we will not take it now

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
this just rec'd from a good friend from CA and NV (dual state citizenship...) who has DONATED thousands of $$$s and hours with the Flying Sams since the 60s...

"maybe not but true hahaahaha you boys in az are in the news all over about your new mex law hahahaha cracks me up the president of mex does not like the law you and me have to have visas flight plans , landing fees and entry permits and they get mad if you ask for a paper F them ahhahhha"

another whack job? i think not. most here couldn't carry his briefcase...

F them indeed.... :spingrin:

capt. mike - 4-27-2010 at 06:33 PM

hahahaha.....not if you have enuff $$$$$$$$$.
don't sweat it man.
tell you what - i am headed south May 7-9.
i'll let you know how i am treated...
oh - and ...i do it legally!! i stop, pay $24 for my visa....yada yada yada...
oh and also - i am taking 3 medical pros to DONATE free medical care to a village with almost ZERO care until WE arrive...
why - because i love those people and i CAN help.
plus i like to drink great margs... :saint:

DENNIS - 4-27-2010 at 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremias
Anybody think the new immigration legislation will create any sort of backlash on U.S citizens traveling or living in Mexico? Just a thought.

Depends on how far they go with it in Arizona. Calderon has already issued a travel advisory for Mexicans in Arizona.
If I were the governor of AZ., I'd be rounding up the National Guard.

capt. mike - 4-27-2010 at 06:35 PM

haha. no boycott will ever happen here.
we have too many great amenities. like golf, bars, maids and waiters and schitt. :lol:

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
hahahaha.....not if you have enuff $$$$$$$$$.
don't sweat it man.
tell you what - i am headed south May 7-9.
i'll let you know how i am treated...
oh - and ...i do it legally!! i stop, pay $24 for my visa....yada yada yada...
oh and also - i am taking 3 medical pros to DONATE free medical care to a village with almost ZERO care until WE arrive...
why - because i love those people and i CAN help.
plus i like to drink great margs... :saint:

Please let us know where you are going.

jeremias - 4-27-2010 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

bringing doctors, nobody is screwing with you! I;m headed a bit past Ensenada this weekend, so I will see. But I'm pretty low profile anyways. I might have to get some appropriate bumper stickers maybe. l

I have read it...

Dave - 4-27-2010 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Dave. Not neccisarily true. read the law. says proof of citizenship. They haven't decided what that means

So should you.

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

JESSE - 4-27-2010 at 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Dave. Not neccisarily true. read the law. says proof of citizenship. They haven't decided what that means

Don't you listen? IT IS NOT ABOUT PROVIDING IDENTIFICATION, its about giving local law enforcement, the power to stop anybody at anytime, simply because he might be an illegal Mexican. In the rest of the US, i have no problems with checkpoints, airport screenings, even the occasional request from a Border patrol agent to ask me for my ID. But i will be damn if i visit a place where at anytime, someone can stop me and harras me simply because i "look" Mexican.

JESSE - 4-27-2010 at 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremias
Anybody think the new immigration legislation will create any sort of backlash on U.S citizens traveling or living in Mexico? Just a thought.

Not at all, but Arizona is going to lose a lot of jobs because of this, trust me.

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:45 PM

It also says
" The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c)." Drivers licenses are not proof of citizenship

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Dave. Not neccisarily true. read the law. says proof of citizenship. They haven't decided what that means

I'd boycott Arizona too

Dave - 4-27-2010 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
How is the Arizona boycott progressing?

But I can't find anything I'd suffer without. :rolleyes:

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
How is the Arizona boycott progressing?

But I can't find anything I'd suffer without. :rolleyes:

That is because you live in Kalifornia

DENNIS - 4-27-2010 at 06:47 PM

...I wonder how things will go when AZ decides to control their border.

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 06:51 PM

We have gunslingers signing up already. Round em up and head em out

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
...I wonder how things will go when AZ decides to control their border.

DENNIS - 4-27-2010 at 06:54 PM

OK...Sounds good. Call in the Minutemen and the Guardian Angels.

Yet to be determined

Dave - 4-27-2010 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Don't you listen? IT IS NOT ABOUT PROVIDING IDENTIFICATION, its about giving local law enforcement, the power to stop anybody at anytime, simply because he might be an illegal Mexican.

The law states:

"For any lawful contact made"

I read this to mean 'probable cause'. If this turns out to be a blanket cover then I'm 100% against this law and I would expect it will be ruled unconstitutional.

DENNIS - 4-27-2010 at 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

I read this to mean 'probable cause'.

Allow me to reiterate an earlier point. I believe it's relavent.

Quote:

Probable cause.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this concept is difficult to explain to a Mexican. They don't know what it entails. They've never had that consideration.

JESSE - 4-27-2010 at 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Its simple Dave, maybe hispanic police officers should ask white citizens of Arizona for proof of citizenship, at every traffic stop, and Lawful contact made.

They would be raising hell if that happened.

Bajaboy - 4-27-2010 at 07:17 PM

Maybe it's time for a National Identity card :light:

rts551 - 4-27-2010 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Maybe it's time for a National Identity card :light:

or a tatoo on the forehead?

how about rational immigration reform?

Donjulio - 4-27-2010 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Maybe it's time for a National Identity card :light:

Yeah thats coming. It's going to be a chip implanted under the skin.

oldlady - 4-27-2010 at 07:28 PM

Since the AZ law is a replica of the federal law....all Congress has to do is change the law. That's their job. It's controversial but Obama has proved he can garner the votes for controversial legislation. The faster he does it, the less likely these fears of racism will materialize and he becomes a hero to the Latino community. Monoloco's idea isn't bad either, Latinos in Arizona, if they are frightened that they may be subjected to racism, should move to the sanctuary states that will welcome them and let Arizona figure out how to clean its hotel rooms and harvest its crops..

David K - 4-27-2010 at 10:02 PM

I got asked for an ID many times (to buy beer)... and I never considered my 'civil rights' to be violated!

It is simply a matter of the LAW being obeyed and proving you are legal (to buy beer... or in this case to be in the U.S.)

The only fear anyone would have of being asked for an ID is if they are violating the law... The people of Arizona are tired of the federal government not enforcing the law... so they are.

That poor Arizona ranch owner (who had been assisting Mexicans crossing the desert through his ranch, in need) who was murdered by illegals... was the final straw to the tolerance of the good people of Arizona.

Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of course! Shame, shame, shame...

Donjulio - 4-27-2010 at 10:11 PM

Too bad the Native Americans didn't implement this system and run people out when they first started coming over. Wouldn't be having this problem now.

JESSE - 4-27-2010 at 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I got asked for an ID many times (to buy beer)... and I never considered my 'civil rights' to be violated!

It is simply a matter of the LAW being obeyed and proving you are legal (to buy beer... or in this case to be in the U.S.)

The only fear anyone would have of being asked for an ID is if they are violating the law... The people of Arizona are tired of the federal government not enforcing the law... so they are.

That poor Arizona ranch owner (who had been assisting Mexicans crossing the desert through his ranch, in need) who was murdered by illegals... was the final straw to the tolerance of the good people of Arizona.

Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of course! Shame, shame, shame...

And who is the "good people" of Arizona David? please explain that to me, because americans of mexican heritage are also "good people" and they deserve the same rights as the "good people" of Arizona don't they?

Why should legal, american born, citizens of Arizona, need to feel different to you and to all the other "good people" of Arizona?

Basically, your stance is "we have a problem with illegals, so lets do something and if the rights of the legal immigrants or citizens of mexican heritage are violated, too f bad".

I can't believe some people actually support this racist law, and even worse, nomads. What a damn shame.

Mexicorn - 4-27-2010 at 10:31 PM

Quote:

How misguided can you be? They ask for your ID to establish your age not citizenship! I dont know you, but you should choose your words more carefully! So have you come up with an idea? Please lt me know I'm chomping at the bit to hear what you have to say.

BajaBruno - 4-27-2010 at 11:07 PM

Shortly after California Proposition 187 was passed by voters (1994) I took a road trip to the Yucatan. 187, before it was judicially smitten, was a law that prohibited most social services from being available to illegal immigrants.
Well, the Mexican federal camino police, normally pretty decent fellows, spotted those California plates and pulled me over at every opportunity. All of them mentioned Prop 187. So....I'd say those with Arizona plates may feel some pressure for a while.

Dave - 4-27-2010 at 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Its simple Dave, maybe hispanic police officers should ask white citizens of Arizona for proof of citizenship, at every traffic stop, and Lawful contact made.

According to the new Arizona law, every police officer, Hispanic or otherwise... does. Whenever they ask for a driver's license. It satisfies the requirement.

Despite what rts551 says. :rolleyes:

BMG - 4-28-2010 at 12:00 AM

I hope everyone has read the bill by now. Seems like a lot of folks are using emotional arguments that have little to do with the actual bill. Hate or love the bill, but argue the facts as they are written in the bill.

This bill was enacted because the federal government has shirked its duty to protect our borders and failed to come up with reasonable temporary worker and immigration regulations. The states bordering Mexico have been hard hit by the illegal alien problem. Arizona decided to address the issue with a very un-politically correct law.

"Lawful contact" - originally I believed that this meant any contact between a law enforcement officer and a private citizen. I have now found out that 'lawful contact' requires that the officer be in contact with a person when that person has violated a law or there is reasonable suspicion that a law has been violated.

"Reasonable suspicion" - is a legal standard recognized in all federal, state and local law. If an officer has reasonable suspicion (as defined by the U.S. Supreme Court), he/she may detain a person and require the person to identify themselves. Some states require printed identification. So far, the Supreme Court has not ruled on the legality of requiring a U.S. citizen to show proof of identity. The new AZ law will require such written proof.

If a law enforcement officer is following the law, he/she will not be able to stop any person simply due to skin color. No one will be required to show any identification that is not already required to be shown when a law is being violated as per existing law. I do not agree that the law is racist or immoral. If a police officer uses the law to persecute any law-abiding person then that officer should be prosecuted for his/her illegal abuse of power.

"This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens."

National ID card dance...

Mexray - 4-28-2010 at 12:02 AM

... I've always been of a mind that National ID cards weren't called for here in the USA - But I think I've changed my view....

1. when you get a US Passport and travel to any other county in the world, you have to keep your Passport within reach - it's essentially your National ID card, abroad, and I don't see many arguments against the policy...

2. our Social Security cards are now issued at birth, staying with you for life - sure, your SSA card was never designed to be an 'identity' card, but you have to fork it over when you get a bank account, driver's license, health insurance, and most importantly, when you get a job...your SSA card is sure tagged directly to you, and currently is a de-facto National ID card...

3. every one who drives in the US has to get a Driver's License, which has your picture one it, essentially an ID Card when you're driving...think about all the times you are asked to show your DL at business' when cashing checks, using credit cards, buying booze, etc., to prove you are you...

4. as of the 2010 Census, the Fed's now are able to connect your exact name to your home address WITH GPS co-ordinates of your exact location!...now that's not a 'card', per say, but BIG BROTHER knows how to find you if they want too!...

So, maybe it's time for a tamper-proof (as much as possible) National ID card to be designed to follow us around all our lives, as these other 'IDs' I've noted, follow us today...

A National ID card would have the advantage of being a positive ID for the purpose of voter registration to maybe cut down on the fraud at the ballot boxes...

a tamper-proof (as tamper proof as possible) National ID card would seem to take the phony SSA and Green cards out of favor, as the National ID card would be 'THE' ID card used for hiring, etc...

I understand Legal visitors here in the US must have their Visa or Green work authorization documentation at hand to show their legal status - what's wrong with that?

What's my point here...well, I guess I'd like to see the USA be able to control the influx of 'visitors', permanent or short-timers, as most EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY in the world does!...Try to visit anywhere overseas, and you have to get a visa and log into the country with conditions on how long you can stay, what activities you can engage in, etc - and if you are found in violation they kick you out!...Many nations require you to even show you return travel documents to insure they don't have to foot the bill when you leave!

My biggest fear is that some kind of nasty device that can do us great harm may somehow be imported across the porous southern boarder - there will then be hell to pay for anyone not here 'legally'...there would probably be martial law enforced, especially at the borders, and who knows where else, as real sanity goes out the window...something to ponder...

Ray

[Edited on 4-28-2010 by Mexray]

oxxo - 4-28-2010 at 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David KWhere is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of course! Shame, shame, shame...

What are you making up now, DK?

capt. mike - 4-28-2010 at 06:16 AM

hahahaha
still arguing about this? its hopeless - the opposing sides will never agree.

do not come to AZ if you're not already a legal resident.
we are all gun toting rednecks. you won't like it here.
it's hot in summer.
except up north - which is full of wild Indians who will scalp you!!
hahahaha :lol:

capt. mike - 4-28-2010 at 06:20 AM

Please let us know where you are going.

why do you want to know?

yellowtail67 - 4-28-2010 at 06:28 AM

This law is the most retarded, profiling law on the books! Talk about RACIST!

My .02.
If EMPLOYERS were penalized for employing illegal aliens, illegal aliens would not want to be here.
It's sad to see and read the hatred, as so many of us in the U.S. travel to Mexico, have friends, have watched kids grow up, get married, etc,. basically write, "build a fence" to keep "them" out.

Bottom line, if there are jobs, illegal aliens are, and will be, a fact of life in Arizona and the U.S.....period. Come down with serious penalties on EMPLOYERS for hiring illegal aliens and most will leave. How many do you know who are great, law abiding, want to better themselves and family?

People like Hannity, Rove, Beck will continue to spout their bigoted, racist ideas as people will slowly believe them and not think for themselves. That's a whole other can of worms with those marooons!

It's unfortunate in this day, there are people in Gov't who would support this bill! Then again look at the genetic make up of Govt. in the house and senate. My opinion is the majority of people who support this bill need to look in the mirror about their own racism and bigotry issues!

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 06:44 AM

another one who hasn't read the bill....

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
Too bad the Native Americans didn't implement this system and run people out when they first started coming over. Wouldn't be having this problem now.

They tried, and I don't blame them. They failed, and things changed radically--------Is that is the kind of "change" you want?

Barry

DianaT - 4-28-2010 at 07:22 AM

Yes, a repeat and summary of what we said before

Human Rights Abuse---

Dangerous Precedent---

Open season on undocumented human beings for all the predators around---open season on a group who is already fearful of the police, and now, Papers Please.

And one final thought. One of my European History professors was an immigrant from Germany----he did not practice the Jewish Religion, but he was of Jewish Ancestry.

He remembered riding on a train in Germany with his father who was a German University professor. As a child he was becoming fearful of what was happening against Jewish people. His father told him not worry, that it would never happen in Germany, the land of Kant. Germany had been a refuge for the Jews escaping the discrimination in other countries. No, it could never happen in Germany.

His father is one who said people do not understand and are just responding to proposed changes emotionally. In the end, most of his family, but not all, escaped in time.

Arizona will be hurt financially as the boycotts heat up. It gives us hope that this sickness will not spread.

Diana and John

[Edited on 4-28-2010 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 07:40 AM

Diane says in the previous post----------"Arizona will be hurt financially as the boycotts heat up. It gives us hope that this sickness will not spread."

From this I must infer that enforcing the long existing laws of this nation is a "sickness"?????

I am sorry Diane, but I just don't understand---------

Barry and Meredith

monoloco - 4-28-2010 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Yes, they could very well be Canadians.

DianaT - 4-28-2010 at 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Diane says in the previous post----------"Arizona will be hurt financially as the boycotts heat up. It gives us hope that this sickness will not spread."

From this I must infer that enforcing the long existing laws of this nation is a "sickness"?????

I am sorry Diane, but I just don't understand---------

Barry and Meredith

If one cannot see the danger and racial profiling in this law, then sorry, but they are as much a part of the problem as is the law.

This is not about simple political differences, it is about a spreading sickness in our country. Very sad times and again, as one friend here in Baja said, Isn't this very unAmerican?

He is correct----open season has been declared---go for it Minute Men, your opportunity is now.

Timo1 - 4-28-2010 at 07:51 AM

I wonder how long it will be before us Canadians will require a visa to pass thru the US on our way south

David K - 4-28-2010 at 07:58 AM

You don't need one now?

The first time I went to Canada (1995), I was shocked at how much more strict they were on us than Mexico... Luckily, I had my voter's registration receipt folded up in my wallet to prove I was an American... The company I worked for flew me into Vancouver without any warning of how much stricter it was to cross into Canada than into Mexico.

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Yes, a repeat and summary of what we said before

Human Rights Abuse---

Dangerous Precedent---

Open season on undocumented human beings for all the predators around---open season on a group who is already fearful of the police, and now, Papers Please.

And one final thought. One of my European History professors was an immigrant from Germany----he did not practice the Jewish Religion, but he was of Jewish Ancestry.

He remembered riding on a train in Germany with his father who was a German University professor. As a child he was becoming fearful of what was happening against Jewish people. His father told him not worry, that it would never happen in Germany, the land of Kant. Germany had been a refuge for the Jews escaping the discrimination in other countries. No, it could never happen in Germany.

His father is one who said people do not understand and are just responding to proposed changes emotionally. In the end, most of his family, but not all, escaped in time.

Arizona will be hurt financially as the boycotts heat up. It gives us hope that this sickness will not spread.

Diana and John

[Edited on 4-28-2010 by DianaT]

I guess the only real difference between that situation and this is that
a) this law prohibits racial and religious profiling
b) most German Jews had entered Germany legally
c) illegal persons here will be moved to the jurisdiction of ice
d) worst case scenario will be a fine or deportation
e) the media has not indicated that ovens are being constructed anywhere
f) except for those bound in 20th century progressivism, which developed eugneics, there is no movement in the US to develop a final solution of any class of people.

Other than that, perhaps the comparison is valid.

Timo1 - 4-28-2010 at 08:03 AM

No David
We require nothing except our passports
As for our strict customs at the border.....we had good teachers

Udo - 4-28-2010 at 08:05 AM

I always carry my U.S. passport in my vehicle whether in the US or in Mexico.
With a first name like mine, someone may think I'm a Russian!

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Diane--------this new law MIRRORS the long existing Federal Law!! Why the outcry now?? The law itself has NO racial component other than to prohibit it-----how folks interpret the law (which should be left to the courts) is another matter---------but again, there is nothing NEW in this state law------if the "sickness" you refer to exists, it only is in the imagination of individuals, and there is no avoiding that situation (as this board reflects :lol:

).

The sky is NOT falling.

Barry

capt. mike - 4-28-2010 at 09:02 AM

Barry - don't waste your breath or pen on her - or any of the other marooons who they themselves are clueless about existing laws let alone respecting them.
they have all drunk the kool aid.....they do not understand representative democracy either. we live in a REPUBLIC, not a pure democracy - like it or not.
this is not about racism - it's about enforcing a law enacted by a sovereign entity.
don't like it? don't live in AZ.
freedom.....ahhhhh...... :coolup:

[Edited on 4-28-2010 by capt. mike]

bajadock - 4-28-2010 at 09:11 AM

I used to read this forum daily for its focus on Baja, trip reports, photos, recipes, places to explore. Perhaps, like other forums, an OFF TOPIC repository could be created?

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
I used to read this forum daily for its focus on Baja, trip reports, photos, recipes, places to explore. Perhaps, like other forums, an OFF TOPIC repository could be created?

Ahhhhh errrrrr-----the Title of this thread does give one a clue as to it's content-------don't understand why you opened it?

Barry

durrelllrobert - 4-28-2010 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timo1
I wonder how long it will be before us Canadians will require a visa to pass thru the US on our way south

or on your way north if you happen to be married to a uS citizen (as is our case now) :fire:

durrelllrobert - 4-28-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
That said, racial or ethnic profiling is the obvious result of such a law.

The clerks at Nordstrom's department store are all trained to watch all little old white haired ladies with large black purses because statistics show that they are most likely to shoplift and the often ask to see receipts for what's in the purse. The call this FACIAL PROFILING :lol:

Que Sera Sera

MrBillM - 4-28-2010 at 10:14 AM

Given the current depressed levels of tourism, they should by all means do something to further depress it, BUT I'm sure that the Mex Authorities will find some way to throw a Hissy Fit now and then over the issue. They always have. Makes them feel good while shooting themselves in the foot.

Relax and Enjoy it. Or, stay home.

DianaT - 4-28-2010 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
another one who hasn't read the bill....

another racist defending gestapo police tactics

and that applies to others also---there are so many of them on this forum who use faulty so called logic to defend their bigotry----sick minds feeding a sick society--

The mouth pieces, or more accurately the puppets, for Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh are alive and well. Sick, just plain old sick. As I heard one commentator state, some people are definitely not worth the time to try and discuss any thing with, and certainly not worth one's time.

I will say that this thread has confirmed my conviction that there are several of you I hope to never meet in person---it really confirms how bigoted many of you are----not people I would want to pass through my door.

Real old time Republicans and conservatives are a different breed and people for whom I have respect even with a difference of opinion. But this is not the same as a simple difference of opinion, the comments say a lot about who people are as people---a part of the sick new movement that is destroying the GOP---I truly feel for the old time GOP----they are toast.

We have some nomads coming to visit and stay with us tomorrow---ones we respect as people. There are some, thank goodness.

Go Freaky Minute Men---it is your chance, and you do have support for the other sickos----

Diana

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 10:56 AM

Diana-----Heaven forbid that one uses "logic" to defend one's position---------what a "sick" methodology!!!!!

Well, you have certainly drawn the proverbial "line in the sand" with that post--------- :rolleyes:

Good luck with that------

Barry

dtbushpilot - 4-28-2010 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
another one who hasn't read the bill....

another racist defending gestapo police tactics

Uhhhh.......ummmmm.........what?

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 11:04 AM

I'm not sure why this would be catagorized as a GOP/DEM issue. Has the Bill Of Rights become a political tool?

Skeet/Loreto - 4-28-2010 at 11:09 AM

DianT"
It does appear to me, after reading all of your Posts, that you are trying to Promote another "Kent State" Incident.
I wonder, Are you one of the kind that stays back"Behind the Front Lines' tries to excite people to Riot as you stay behind the Protection of others????.

Another thing that makes you look "Unlearned, and Weak-Minded" is trying to compare the thinking and action of todays People with Slavery over 200 years ago.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 11:13 AM

Diana and the Goat (and others) are really going to love this one-----

------our Navy is plotting against us for sure, for sure!!! Spending money to "change" this building is insane IMO!!!!

http://www.10news.com/news/23284992/detail.html

DianaT - 4-28-2010 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I'm not sure why this would be catagorized as a GOP/DEM issue. Has the Bill Of Rights become a political tool?

It is not a GOP/DEM issue and there are members of the GOP and some of the leaders of the GOP who oppose this bill. They are the ones that are more of the old guard, the old GOP---the ones for whom I respect and with whom when there is a disagreement about policy, economics, etc., it is policy based.

It is the new wave that is destroying the GOP and they are ones who are backing this law---the birther types, the real bigots, etc.

BTW---look at the background of the main person who wrote this bill---that will tell you a lot about the intentions behind the bill.

If I have time left on the Banda Ancha, I will give you some links later----except a walk on the beach is waiting.

So yes, you are correct---it is about the Bill of Rights and Human Rights------and no party has a lock on that---but the new wave that is taking over the GOP are only interested in the Bill of Rights and Human Rights for certain people.

Even John McCain is running scared of this new movement---he is one who used to make more sense. He is bending over backwards to please this group ----

Diana

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 11:47 AM

Gee.....I missed the part about what one does when the Federal government fails to "secure" one's Natural and Civil rights. What's the procedure for that?

DENNIS

DianaT - 4-28-2010 at 12:01 PM

This is just one link about Kris Kobach from Kansas who helped write this bill----http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/spring/the-nativists?page=0,11

He and organizations that he is hooked up with, like FAIR really believe that the only real Americans fit the old WASP profile----bigots and hate mongers.

GOP, or the old GOP has nothing to do with this insanity ---just that crazy new wave----the birther types and their supporters.

Well, enough---I am out of this thread, but final comment to Skeet---try learning to read and stick to your fanatical bigoted religion. Fortunately, there are still many mainline Christian Churches who still practice tolerance and many of them are in the forefront of protesting against this draconian law.

capt. mike - 4-28-2010 at 12:10 PM

"there are still many mainline Christian Churches who still practice tolerance and many of them are in the forefront of protesting against this draconian law."

and for most of them there is not much difference between kneeling down and bending over.... :lol:

Rev. Mike, ordained in 1984.
Reverend Ewing's Church By Mail.
Deacon, Pastor Jerry Davis' Church of What's Happening Now.
Converted to teachings of The Central Scrutinizer, circa 1988.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Fortunately, there are still many mainline Christian Churches who still practice tolerance and many of them are in the forefront of protesting against this draconian law.

-----"draconian law"-------you mean the one that has been in effect for decades??? NOW you (and some churches?) are upset???? What took so long??

Ok, I get it------the law has seldom (if ever) been enforced so that's ok--------Geezo, we certainly would not want to "enforce" a long standing law------that would be discrimination, or something.

Barry

Mexicorn - 4-28-2010 at 12:20 PM

The All new Duncan Hunter internment camp:
Duncan hunter recently said that he believed the children of those who had entered the United States illegally should be deported.
Well that’s it were all going back to our countries of origin, except the American Indians.
Perhaps we should name the internment camps The Duncan Hunter good patriots return to your country of origin concentration camps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX11mTOY2XM&feature=playe...
Copied from you tube-

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexicorn
The All new Duncan Hunter internment camp:
Duncan hunter recently said that he believed the children of those who had entered the United States illegally should be deported.
Well that’s it were all going back to our countries of origin, except the American Indians.
Perhaps we should name the internment camps The Duncan Hunter good patriots return to your country of origin concentration camps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX11mTOY2XM&feature=playe...
Copied from you tube-

Huhhh???? Apples and oranges (again). Entering the Country ILLEGALLY is the key word here-------he is not talking about those who came into this Country legally, or before there were border laws --------Duncan Hunter, like many of us, is totally frustrated that the border laws of this Country are being violated, and those illegals (and their offspring) are being rewarded, at the expense of legal citizens--------it is as simple as that, bottom line.

Barry

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
This is just one link about Kris Kobach from Kansas who helped write this bill----http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/spring/the-nativists?page=0,11

Your link didn't work for me. This one does:

http://tinyurl.com/26botea
------------

So...what am I supposed to do here....Judge the message or the messanger? It serves me no purpose to discount the message just because the messanger is a jerk.
I'll reciprocate by not judgeing the Christian website that posted their opinion of him.
I'm going to concentrate on the message and form my own opinion.
So far, I'm leaning toward the law and order which has been established by our courts...not a bunch of reactionaries who want to redefine our laws and the Bill Of Rights.
Illegal immigrants are illegal. Illegalities must be dealt with or all of our structure is meaningless.
This dilema shares a characteristic with the cartel dilema in Mexico. Both situations have been ignored for so long that their size has become unmanageable. That doesn't mean the fight is over and lost. It just means drastic measures must be taken to regain control of our land and this is what I see in Arizona.
All the chiit that is being thrown out there now as a more humane alternative, sound immigration policy etc., is the answer. It's been the answer for a long time. Unfortunatly, it's just lip service. It doesn't happen. When It does, if ever, the harsh measures can be put aside. Until then, we have to accept desperate measures.
Either that or give up and turn the country over to whover cries loudest.

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 12:54 PM

Don't hold your breath Dennis, just read a release that Reid put out an hour ago...no immigration reform until after Cap and Trade. Guess we know where the priorities are.

mtgoat666 - 4-28-2010 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Under the Constitution's 14th Amendment ratified in 1868, children born in the U.S. are citizens. Section 1 of the amendment says: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 01:00 PM

Hunter's an idiot...along with most of Congress who don't have any more idea what is in the Constitution than is what is in the Bills they pass.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

----I agree---there is no gettin around that, period!!!

Barry

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
Hunter's an idiot...along with most of Congress who don't have any more idea what is in the Constitution than is what is in the Bills they pass.

Whoa!!!!! "Idiot"??? You lost me on that one. Could not be further from the truth-------Hunter know's EXACTLY what the Constitution says--------I believe he was simply saying that is what he personally thought, in response to a specific question and out of total frustration--------of course he was legally wrong, and he well knew it-------he was emotionally responding, always a dangerous and improper thing for any polltician to do.

Barry

Mexicorn - 4-28-2010 at 01:26 PM

Thank god the powers that be have finally put together a scientific way to tell who's in this country illegally. I'm sure you true Patriots will agree with this one! Maricopa County Police training video TOP SECRET!
Thank Sheriff Joe for letting this one sneak out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLh40fl9JJI&feature=relat...
Copied from you tube

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexicorn
Thank god the powers that be have finally put together a scientific way to tell who's in this country illegally. I'm sure you true Patriots will agree with this one! Maricopa County Police training video TOP SECRET!
Thank Sheriff Joe for letting this one sneak out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLh40fl9JJI&feature=relat...
Copied from you tube

That's just silly!!! and all know it (or should) :rolleyes:

Barry

bonanza bucko - 4-28-2010 at 01:49 PM

I don't understand the concern with officers asking for "papers" which a loaded word that attempts to spin the procedure negatively. You get asked for your "papers" about twenty times a day when you have to show a picture ID....ie Driver's License...to use a credit card, to get admission to a gummint office and about fifty other reasons. If you get stopped for an infraction you have to show it as the first part of the cops' procedures. That is EXACTLY what will happen as this law is enforced.....NOBODY is gonna be "racially profiled" by the cops. The law requires that a probable cause for asking for the ID must be present.

Those who want to reconquista Aztlan...and those who want the next election to be decided by voter fraud....are all breathlessly pushing to get this law stopped before it can start. Their objectives, which are not America's objectives, would be ruined if Arizona's law gets spread around....I really think it will because we have finally just HAD IT with grin screwing, lying politicoholes putting this off.

BB :-)

mtgoat666 - 4-28-2010 at 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
Hunter's an idiot...along with most of Congress who don't have any more idea what is in the Constitution than is what is in the Bills they pass.

yes, hunter is an idiot. first and only time i have agreed with oldlady.

jeremias - 4-28-2010 at 02:13 PM

Looks like it's already starting....... MEXICAN TAXIS BOYCOTT 'ARIZONA GRINGOS'

The Arizona law has catapulted the immigration issue back to the front and center of U.S. politics in this congressional election year, and ratcheted up pressure on Obama to keep a pledge to Hispanics to pass comprehensive immigration reform.

"It is going to allow us to ultimately say -- when all is said and done -- that this was the clear pivotal moment," said Gutierrez, who is head of the congressional Hispanic caucus' immigration task force.

U.S. Senate Majority leader Harry Reid, who faces a tough re-election battle in Nevada where Latinos helped clinch victory for Obama in 2008, said he was committed to passing both climate change and immigration reform laws this year.

While the two efforts are widely seen as election-year long shots, Reid said: "I am committed to doing both this session of Congress."

Passing an overhaul that offered a path to citizenship for many of the 10.8 million illegal immigrants in the United States would consolidate support for Democrats among Hispanics, the country's largest minority, but would run the risk of energizing Republican opposition to Democratic lawmakers in swing states and districts.

Arizona's bold move continued to reverberate well beyond its borders, sparking calls for economic boycotts and celebrity interventions.

Colombian-born pop star Shakira said she will travel to Phoenix on Thursday to help campaign against the new law, and would meet with Mayor Phil Gordon.

In Mexico, where the government has warned its citizens living in or traveling to Arizona that they could be "harassed," taxi drivers organized their own special boycott.

"We don't give service to gringos from Arizona," was the phrase some Mexico City taxi drivers painted in white on their rear windows.

(Additional reporting by Steve Gorman in Los Angeles, Tom Ferraro in Washington and Catherine Bremer in Mexico City; Editing by Mary Milliken and Eric Walsh)

Callous. Evil. And downright unconstitutional.

mtgoat666 - 4-28-2010 at 02:18 PM

HUNTER: "Would you support deportation of natural-born American citizens that are the children of illegal aliens," Hunter was asked. "I would have to, yes," Hunter said. "... We simply cannot afford what we're doing right now," he said. "... It takes more than just walking across the border to become an American citizen. It's what's in our souls. ..."

Ironic, isn't it? Conservatives love to talk about the Constitution until they're blue in the face--until it gets in the way of their anti-immigrant tendencies. Then they're all too happy to ignore it. And Duncan Hunter apparently thinks it's just fine to deport children who are citizens of the United States out of the only home they have ever known--apparently because they didn't have the "soul of a citizen" in his mind.

Callous. Evil. And downright unconstitutional.

Bajahowodd - 4-28-2010 at 02:23 PM

The Urban Institute, a DC based think tank estimates that there are currently 75,000 Canadian illegals in the US. That obviously pales by comparison to the estimated 6.5 million Mexicans. However, think anyone is going to stop a Canadian to ask for papers?

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The Urban Institute, a DC based think tank estimates that there are currently 75,000 Canadian illegals in the US. That obviously pales by comparison to the estimated 6.5 million Mexicans. However, think anyone is going to stop a Canadian to ask for papers?

Absolutely!!!! Like others have said in this thread, we are asked for papers all the time on a daily basis--------what's the big deal???

In response to Goat's last post-----yes, Hunter replied in a telling and scary way, and I only hope he did not mean exactly what he said, but I agree, it don look good------he said it, and that's that.

Sorry for my knee-jerk reaction to OldLady before.

Barry

tripledigitken - 4-28-2010 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Half of them are in Quartsite, AZ for 4 months of the year. :lol:

If you read the bill you would know that the bill does not allow stopping to ask for papers.

The problem of illegal Canadians is one that i'm sure the present administration will look into after they address Cap and Trade, fine tuning the taxes on Tanning Salons, and possibly the VAT.

Ken

Anyone else see the humor in an administration headed by a Black president, installing taxes on Tanning Salons? I mean who doesn't go into a tanning booth? But I digress...........

Cypress - 4-28-2010 at 02:47 PM

Boycotting Arizona Gringos. Oh yea! How 'bout gringos not going to Mexico? There are plenty of other places that will welcome them with open arms.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

Half of them are in Quartsite, AZ for 4 months of the year. :lol:

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 02:49 PM

What does an Arizona gringo look like?

Oh...I know. They're white.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What does an Arizona gringo look like?

Oh...I know. They're white.

--------you can always tell them by looking at their shoes------

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Anyone else see the humor in an administration headed by a Black president, installing taxes on Tanning Salons? I mean who doesn't go into a tanning booth? But I digress...........

Tanning Salons have taken over where Massage Parlors left off....if, in fact, they did. Obama is taxing prostitution.
Masturbation is next.
Wet Dreams...Well, he's working on that one.

oldlady - 4-28-2010 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Not at all, but Arizona is going to lose a lot of jobs because of this, trust me.

With all the knee jerk boycotting and fear, you stand a very good chance of being correct. The discrestionaries hit first and hardest. Hotels, restaurants, theaters etc. In may be unintended consequences it will hurt.

Sent a note of to DC a couple of hours ago. I thought just maybe these events are a little hotter, in the moment, than any immediate cooling passing a bill on Cap and Trade might provide and it might be more productive. I'm sure others of you have thought and done the same. Make them do their job....that's what we pay them for.

Also posted in the other thread>>>

David K - 4-28-2010 at 03:22 PM

So only the United States doesn't need to enforce its border or immigration laws, but Mexico can (and does)?

Just where do you think the money is coming from to pay the hospital bills and social services being sucked empty?

Only America must lay down and let them stampede across our land, without any filter to keep out criminals, diseases, terrorists?

Don't any of you on the left have ANY respect or love for YOUR country left in you to try and save it?

The great American culture and society is disappearing before our eyes... That is the SAME culture and way of life that ATTRACTS outsiders to come here... and we welcome those who abide by our laws.

You want to throw away the rule of law for a particular group that you think should get a pass? Is it because you think they are not able to play by the same rules as ALL the other 200 or so nations of the world? That is insulting to the good people of Mexico, specially those who went through the process to come here legally.

Will you not be happy until America is no better than Botswana or Albania? The world needs America to be better... to be there as an example of freedom and justice (justice means laws being obeyed and followed).

The Republicans are a party of the people and a party of preserving this great country and the laws passed by the people... the party of Lincoln... the party that passed the Civil Rights Act. We are for opportunity for everyone in America, no matter where they come from... as long as they respect America enough to come here the legal way.

I am a little tired of the lies and associations with N-zis and bigots. Nothing could be further from the truth. All the left has done is divide people into groups and classes... color, race, economic condition and then try and create hate between the groups. This is the opposite of what Martin Luther King advocated... We are Americans and we love America... period.

Cypress - 4-28-2010 at 03:30 PM

Texas may soon enact an immigration law similar to the one passed by Arizona.

Barry A. - 4-28-2010 at 03:36 PM

Lordy, Goat-------talking to you is like talking to a rock!!! Don't you ever consider ANYTHING others say??

Oh well, I suppose not.

(sigh)

Barry

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Texas may soon enact an immigration law similar to the one passed by Arizona.

This will give Skeet something to do. :lol:

capt. mike - 4-28-2010 at 03:43 PM

estimated 6.5 million Mexicans

i think it is more like 10-12 MM.
but we cannot get a real count....too many of them are working illegally for the Census dept. cause they couldn't get legal residents to do it.

Skeet/Loreto - 4-28-2010 at 03:43 PM

Cypress:

Here I am a TEXAN and you are wrong Cypress. Texas is not about to pass any Laws as such. Better do a little better on your information{better than the LA Times, New York Times|

Skeet

DENNIS - 4-28-2010 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
estimated 6.5 million Mexicans

i think it is more like 10-12 MM.

I think it's racial profiling to count them. No No No...we don't want any of that now, do we. :lol:

Cypress - 4-28-2010 at 03:55 PM

Skeet/Loreto, Debbie Riddle of Tomball, TX says she will introduce a bill similar to the Arizona law. Do TEXANS have the spine to pass it? You're probably right. Regarding your choice of newspapers: I don't subscribe to any. :lol:

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