BajaNomad - A Double Shakedown in Constitución

A Double Shakedown in Constitución

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Lee - 6-28-2010 at 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peloncito
I know exactly what a throw away license is, but could it be possible that I simply didn't care (at brief moment in time) if the officer kept my real CDL allowing me to be on my way?

I can tell you don't know what a throw away license is. Ask around or u2u me to find out.

Quote:

I am sorry that I could not help the cause in the manner you obviously would have liked, but then again, my family is a much higher priority to me than worrying about $40+/-.

I can tell you are still emotionally upset and were traumatized by this situation -- and are taking my comments personally.

The fact is your behavior, and anyone paying for the scams in CC, is promoting MORE scams on more people.

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 09:44 AM

Response from US Consulate in Tijuana

"Thank you for your inquiry. We have received your e-mail and will make every effort to respond within two business days. If your e-mail requires action on the part of another entity, we will forward your inquiry to the appropriate Consulate General office or U.S. Government Agency. If you desire to speak to us by phone, please call us at 011-52-664-622-7400 and ask for the American Citizen Services Unit. Thank you."

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 09:54 AM

This is or aught to be upsetting to all of us and everyone who posted so far has concerns about this or would not be posting. It is traumatizing to be stopped by police and shaken down. I have traveled all over Mexico for over forty years and can recall EACH incident of being extorted by police for mordida. Mordida by police is essentially armed robbery, they have a gun, that means that is part of the equasion.

There are different strategies being proposed here. I have chosen to contact everyone that I can who might have a vested interest in this issue to see if I can help create buzz about this.

My brother once ran a class at SF State titled "Make Your Own News". He assigned his students to make news. There are innumberable ways of making news. You are only limited by your imagination and time that you have to devote to it.

One way of making news is to create a buzz. Shake the trees, see what falls out. Another is to contact local media and blow the whistle. Give awards to honest cops who don't take bribes. I would encourage all of us to focus our attention on making news, shaking trees, creating buzz. This is THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY that connects northern and southern Baja. Think. Who can you influence, inform??

Put this bone in your teeth and don't let go. Also don't let disagreements derail us, we have power if we act together. We all have the best interest of each other in mind here, that is why people are posting ideas. We simply need to go beyond posting ideas.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish

Solutions.

Lee - 6-28-2010 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Put this bone in your teeth and don't let go. Also don't let disagreements derail us, we have power if we act together. We all have the best interest of each other in mind here, that is why people are posting ideas. We simply need to go beyond posting ideas.

Iflyfish

Good job and what you are doing is valuable work. The results may/may not produce any positive results but it is worth the effort.

I have no choice but to drive through CC going to Todos and returning North.

An idea that would work for me, but possibly not others, is this:

When approaching CC, I plan to pull over and approach the first cop I see. (I'm assuming I"ll see one before being pulled over.)

I'll ask the cop for help in getting through his town and will gladly pay him for escorting me through town. This is a win/win to me. I"ll offer 50 - 100 pesos.

I'll also (attempt) to establish a relationship asking if I can call him if I have problems in CC.

If someone here knows where the police station is in CC, maybe I'll go there first and ask for help.

Probably sounds silly to some and the argument can be made that I (we) shouldn't have to go through this nonsense. Agreed.

I didn't make the rules of the game here, though, and when I drive through CC, I'll be forced to participate.

I don't mind paying for services and/or protection. I need all the help I can get. I do object to being scammed but then, I don't see being pulled over as any more than a minor nuisance.

Any other solutions out there? I know the LeggyinLP is lurking this thread and would have some solutions in mind. Mr.Bill too might shed some light on the psychology needed to run this gauntlet.

bajaguy - 6-28-2010 at 11:03 AM

Tell them you are a reporter working on a story of local corruption directed towards american tourists by the police in CC.......... :lol:

fishabductor - 6-28-2010 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Tell them you are a reporter working on a story of local corruption directed towards american tourists by the police in CC.......... :lol:

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 12:18 PM

BajaGuy and FishAbductor

Exactly, do it!! This is how you "make news".

I hope everyone will do at least ONE thing, we are many and they are few.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 6-28-2010 at 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish

Exactly, do it!! This is how you "make news".

Yep....You might be 46 and 47.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/11/mexicos-nati...

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 12:26 PM

Frank wrote
"Just sent off a letter to all of these.

correspondencia@sectur.gob.mx, extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx, www.fonatur.gob.mx, turismo@gbcs.gob.mx,turismoloscabos@prodigy.net.mx

That is two of us now for sure that have contacted these folks. Good one Frank!

All you have to do to accomplish what Frank has done is to copy and paste these addresses to email and send them your complaint. This extortion must stop and together I hope we can do just that!

Iflyfish

fishabductor - 6-28-2010 at 12:28 PM

I never said I was going to do it, I just think it was a funny reply. I have no intention of being 46 or 47.

I don't intend to drive through CC anytime soon. I leave a car in the states and one in Baja and fly these days. especially now that I have a 4mo old son.

[Edited on 6-28-2010 by fishabductor]

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 12:36 PM

I appreciate what you are saying Dennis. We will not change the fact of mordida in Mexico, too much history. But, But, if we are able to stop one source of it in one city, Ciudad Constitution, a road we all must travel in order to go from Northern to Southern Baja, we will have used this forum to it's highest and best potential.

I think it was Burke who said "All that is necessary for the final triumph of evil over good is if good men do nothing". Be smart about what you do, but do something.

I sincerly doubt that some small time cops in Ciudad Constitution will put together a hit squad to target Americans who bust their chops. If it were the Zetas, that would be a different story. These are small town cops who are becoming more and more embolden by their success. Now is the time to stop this, while it is small enough. Basta Yo in Ciudad Constitution.

Make news!! Get people's attention about this. This is THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY connecting north and south Baja.

Be smart about what you do, but do something! There is strength in numbers.

Iflyfish

Longlegsinlapaz suggestion to me

DavidE - 6-28-2010 at 12:49 PM

Boy few people have caught me as flat footed as you with your question :-)

Why haven't I queried a Green Angel about the federal complaint form and gotten more information and perhaps an image of a blank form...

The answer is: I haven't and I should have done so, factually a long time ago.

Thanks for skewering me. I needed that and I actually am deeply appreciative. Yours was not taken at all as criticism, it is a legitimate question that I shall seek to answer, hopefully sooner rather than later.

oldjack - 6-28-2010 at 12:56 PM

02-684-9715 or 02-684-9761

Green Angel phone number in MX.... I am not in MX now but maybe some Nomad could call and get the form information...

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 01:02 PM

Baja&Back posted the following. I have sent Patricia an email, this is the old Manfred's RV Park in Ciudad Constitution, one of the finest RV Parks in all Baja, run by a wonderful woman, a real friend to Nomads. She is involved so please contact and support her efforts. Maybe she has a recommendation for us as to how to stop the Extortion by Police in Ciudad Constiution.

"If you get ripped off by the cops in CC (or even an attempt), email your story to Patricia at Misiones RV park - npso@hotmail.com, with details.

She is peeed off & willing to go to the mayor's office to stop this."

Support Patricia, I have sent her an email telling her we would not be staying there as we had planned due to this organized extortion.

There are things YOU can do. We are many, they are few. There are those in Baja who want our business.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish

DianaT - 6-28-2010 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Boy few people have caught me as flat footed as you with your question :-)

Why haven't I queried a Green Angel about the federal complaint form and gotten more information and perhaps an image of a blank form...

The answer is: I haven't and I should have done so, factually a long time ago.

Thanks for skewering me. I needed that and I actually am deeply appreciative. Yours was not taken at all as criticism, it is a legitimate question that I shall seek to answer, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Yeh, her well thought out direct comments and questions are usually quite right-on----

well, that is unless she disagrees with me.

Mexican Federal Police

bajaguy - 6-28-2010 at 03:56 PM

http://www.ssp.gob.mx/portalWebApp/appmanager/portal/desk?_n...

http://www.ssp.gob.mx/portalWebApp/portlets/portalSSP/Contac...

[Edited on 6-28-2010 by bajaguy]

Iflyfish - 6-28-2010 at 09:56 PM

Excellent BajaGuy, will jump on these tomorrow. Good work!! Excellent oldjack! There are many roads to Rome. This group is nothing if not creative!

They need to hear from US!! All of us!! Every blasted one of us.!!

Make news!!

Stop the Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution!! Viva Nomads!!

Tag, you're it!

Iflyfish

vandenberg - 6-29-2010 at 07:56 AM

Did send a message to the federal police (Bajaguy).
Didn't quite know what heading to put it under, so I chose the Human Rights one ? :biggrin:

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 09:57 AM

This just in, response to my email entitled "Mordida in Ciudad Constitution"
another title might be Extortion on Federal Highway in Ciudad Constitution.

Subprocuraduría de Servicios

Dirección General de Quejas y Conciliación

Dirección de Conciliación y Programas Especiales

Departamento de Conciliación a Residentes en el Extranjero
“2010, Año de la Patria, Bicentenario del Inicio de la Independencia y Centenario del Inicio de la Revolución”
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your e-mail.
The Consumer Protection Agency, PROFECO, is part of the administrative branch of the Federal Government of Mexico. The Department of Conciliation Services for Foreign Residents provides assistance towards trying to conciliate controversies for foreign or Mexican citizens living abroad that acquire any product or service from a Mexican supplier.

Therefore according to the information provided we suggest you to file your claim with the competent authority since Profeco is not able to assist you for that kind of matter.

You may file your claim with the Ministerio Público (Public Prosecutor) in the State, in the Secreatria de la Función Pública, which is Agency in charge of surveillance the governmental employees to: contactociudadano@funcionpublica.gob.mx
or through the web site of the
General Attorney PGR to: www.pgr.gob.mx CONTACT: wmaster@pgr.gob.mx

Thank you
Sincerely,

Laura Mejía
Department of Conciliation
Services for Foreign Residents PROFECO

I sent this email:

There have been a number of reports on Baja Nomads website about how police in Ciudad Constitution are stopping US Citizens and requiring a bribe from them by threatening them with a ticket if they do not pay them the "fine" on the spot. The following is an example of this:

"Unfortunately it's true that moto cop number 045 has hit a couple of my friends and me too. Cost me $300 pesos on the spot. This guy tried to get one of my friends for $80 dollars but they gave him 500 pesos and said "that's it" ..then drove away . moto cop 045 did not follow them."

You will find numerous reports here on this illegal activity by the police who are supposed to be protecting tourists!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=46302&pag...

My wife and I had planned to visit Ciudad Constitution and stay at Manfred's RV Park, one of the finest in the Baja, we also planned to eat at least three meals in town and to hire a guide to take us to Maglena Bay to watch whales. We then planned to travel further south to La Paz, Cabo and Todos Santos.

Now we will not be traveling past Guerro Negro unless this problem is resolved. I know of one caravan of motor homes that will also not be going thru Ciudad Constitution because of this problem.

Please attend to this very serious matter for the sake of your country and it's important tourism industry.

Keep the buzz going, it has started and YOU can do something about this. Tag, you're it!

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 10:00 AM

Good one Vandenberg, there is strength in numbers. Each one of us can do something today to address this extortion that we all face if we drive thru Ciudad Constitution.

It takes but a few minutes to potentially do so much good. If we can beat this in Ciudad Constitution we will set a very powerful precident indeed.

Keep up the buzz Nomads! What you do is for all Nomads.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 10:04 AM

You may file your claim with the Ministerio Público (Public Prosecutor) in the State, in the Secreatria de la Función Pública, which is Agency in charge of surveillance the governmental employees to:

contactociudadano@funcionpublica.gob.mx

or through the web site of the
General Attorney PGR to:

www.pgr.gob.mx CONTACT: wmaster@pgr.gob.mx

I hope he gets an EAR FULL! of Nomad Rage! Just do it!

Iflyfish and will buy the first round for Nomads who take ACTION NOW to stop this extortion.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 04:06 PM

I have sent the following email to:
contactociudadano@funcionpublica.gob.mx
and General Attorney PGR to:
www.pgr.gob.mx CONTACT: wmaster@pgr.gob.mx

Extortion in Ciudad Constitution by Local Police on Federal Highway

I have been reading for some time about the extortion that is occurring in Ciudad Constitution where local police are requiring bribes, mordida, from United States Tourists who must travel through this town to reach Southern Baja. There are so many of these reports that it is time that authorities take action. Tourism has already been affected by crime in Baja, and now it’s the police, on the only Federal Highway that connects Northern and Southern Baja.

Please take the time to read these posts and do what you can to stop this robbery. We had planned to spend time in Ciudad Constitution, eat at restaurants, stay in the excellent RV park there, hire a guide to take us to see the whales in Mag. Bay. Now we will go no further than Guerro Negro if this problem is not resolved.

This email is from an outfitter that I planned to hire to guide me fishing and whale watching in Magdalena Bay.

“"Unfortunately it's true that moto cop number 045 has hit a couple of my friends and me too. Cost me $300 pesos on the spot. This guy tried to get one of my friends for $80 dollars but they gave him 500 pesos and said "that's it" ..then drove away . moto cop 045 did not follow them.”

This from BajaInsider.com
Police Games in Constitucion?
DWG – Driving While Gringo
Paula - Veteran Baja Driver
I just wanted to put a warning out to the folks traveling through Ciudad Constitucion. We just drove up Baja from Los Cabos and we stopped in Constitucion for gas. A warning from a friend, who had traveled through a few weeks earlier, told us of the police stopping them for going through a yellow light.
She spoke Spanish and did not get a ticket nor did she have to pay a bribe. So we were well aware of every stop light and stop sign driving through the town, going the speed limit.
We were stopped at a stop light and I saw the Police stopped at the stop light going the opposite direction. He was to go straight. After the turning lane next to him finished and before our light turned green he made an illegal u turn from where he was in front of us and pulled over at the end of the block ahead. I just knew that he was after us.
We stopped right next to him at a stop sign then when to the next stop light, as my husband got to the intersection it was blinking green, in the middle of the intersection it turned yellow. Never any red. Sure enough the police pulled us over and told us it was illegal not to stop at a blinking green light and said it was a $100 ticket.
We argued that it was not illegal and that he could give us the ticket and we would go to the court. He said we could not go to the court till the next day (a Saturday), it was 4:30 pm when we were pulled over. This went on for awhile and finally we gave him $20 and he left. It was really disappointing,
I've always liked this town to stop and eat, but now when we come back down, we won't even stop for gas

Posted on BajaForums:
Posted June 10, 2010 09:08 PM
ATTENTION FOREIGN COMMUNITIES OF BAJA
The city of Cd. Constitución has been sanctioning the using a traffic ticket trap. Under many pretenses they have been extracting money from drivers with foreign license vehicles. In many cases the officers have been taking cash from the victims. In my case a week ago two motor cycle patrolmen pulled me over as I approached the city. They had no radar equipment, eluded to speeding but I was behind traffic and just went over a speed bump, so they mulled it over after seeing my Mexican drivers license and decided to write me a ticket on the pretense that there was a problem with my California license plate. I was directed to go to the police department and pay the fine. I inquired at the department as to what was wrong so I could correct the problem so as not to be ticketed again and only received a 25% discount for my trouble (from $525 pesos to $393). Since this has been a continual problem, reported by many travelers, on a Federal Highway, thru a town without a bypass, the federal, state, and community governments must act to deter these illegal harassments.
Suggestions:
Contact the mayor, the governor, the president, the sub-director of police (Sr. Villalejos 613-100-1910), the US Embassy (1-888-407-4747), WeTip.com (1-800-782-7463) and protest.

Fraternally; Joe Wachter

On BajaNomads there are the following posts:

posted on 6-19-2010 at 07:55 AM

A Double Shakedown in Constitución

We've been in Cd. Const every 3-4 wks either passing thru on the way to La Paz, or for banking and groceries and knew it was only a matter of time before we'd fall victim to the sharks in the blue uniforms that so many others have been reporting.

I've read reports from people who have been pulled over in Cd Const twice on the same trip on their way to and from la Paz , but here's the doozy we experienced 2 days ago. We were pulled over 2 times before we even left the city limits! Once as we entered town and 10 min later as we were leaving.

I'll preface the story by saying we always go at, or below the speed limit no matter how slow that is and stop completely at intersections, and stop for pedestrians etc.

One block after the statue intersection on the North end of Constitución, a cop standing on the sidewalk blew his whistle and waved us over. He asked for Wooo's license and then said "Hey, you're from Las Barrancas aren't you? Remember when you bought beer for Tito and I?" Well we're not from Las Barrancas, but we do know Tito and this cop looked a little familiar so we just smiled and sort of nodded without really confirming or denying about the cerveza part.

The cop waved and said "No no, put your license away. After you pull back on to the highway, stay in the center lane so you can avoid the 'retén' ahead and have a good trip".

He waved us on and we pulled away and moved to the center lane of the Southbound highway. 2 blocks beyond there were a couple of cops standing on the side service road next to their truck, who appeared to be looking for cars to pull over also. I don't know how, or if, these 2 groups were working together.

About 10 min later we had passed the Super Ley and were almost out of the South end of town when BigWooo says "uh oh, here we go" and we get the red lights and siren of a different cop truck. We pull over again and the guy asks for Wooo's license. He held up his wallet with the license visible and (in a maneuver we learned about from reading a Nomad post by Paulina about Dern's technique), Wooo shows the guy his license but refuses to let him have it in his hands.

The cop insists he needs to hold the license but Wooo is persistent and tells him he'll gladly hold it up for him to look at but will not hand it over. The cop went to his truck and returned with a ticket book and pointed to rule #8 which said something about "failure to provide license or ID".

As he was reluctantly handing over his license, Wooo asked why he had pulled us over and the guy started in to nuclear spanish mode during which I caught something about a "stoplight and a niño". From this we gathered we were getting the imaginary-pedestrian-in-a-crosswalk scam that we'd heard about recently.

Wooo's patience was wearing thin and his volume was increasing as he said we'll go to the cop shop and sort it out. The cop said the station was closed for 3 more hours. Wooo told him the police station does not close, and he has many friends on the department so lets go talk to them ( actually it's just the 2 local cops in our little town). The guy paused, returned the license, then walked back and got in his truck.

We had barely pulled away from the curb and they already had another gringo pulled over behind us. He wasn't even back in his truck long enough to witness a violation by another vehicle.

Today, on the drive back thru Cd Const I saw one cop car as we passed through town.

This situation is so ridiculous that it's funny, but not really. The next time may not be as easy and it makes you really dread having to go thru that town.
oladulce

posted on 6-20-2010 at 06:14 PM

I've been pulled over 2x in CDC.. Both times for BS things. My mexican wife started asking a bunch of questions..badge #, name, etc. We said lets go to the station both times...they said adios both times.

I hate CDC anymore. I got to the point where I no longer want to drive Baja. I live in the loscabos area and we just now fly. There is nothing I can't buy locally that I absolutely need.
I should have posted this sooner, but 2 weeks ago our lead vehicle ran a stopsign that had been placed at a broken stoplight in Constitucion. This was a motorcycle cop that pulled him over. By the time we got out of town, we saw three other gringos get pulled over. Unfortunately my friend didnt know the drill and handed over 500 pesos.

We met 3 other gringos in our travels during the next week that had been pulled over in Constitución.

more pullover stories in upcoming posts
Curt63

posted on 6-20-2010 at 02:36 PM

I have been stopped almost every time I have gone thru Constitution over the last 4-5 years- about 4 times a year. Usually the cop wants a bribe, 200 - 800 pesos. Twice I have gone to the police station to pay my fine- both times the Commander backed-up his cop and demanded that I pay him or have my car and gear impounded- I paid. Once, I was stopped by two local cops who claimed my trailer lights weren't working: when I walked to the rear of my trailer to check the second cop ripped my wiring from the plug and said in perfect English, " Here's your problem; the wires are broken, you should have checked them before you left home". It cost me $20. to get out of there. I hate to pay the bribes but from what I've seen you will get no relief from the local police management. It does not matter if you are on the Federal Highway or the town streets; the local cops will stop people on any of the roads thru town. I will spend no money in Constitution ever, if I can help it. The newer Pemex North ( West side of road) of town is well known by the locals to short-liter you, and they will try to short-change you if you let them.
Snowcat5

posted on 6-20-2010 at 06:14 PM
I've been pulled over 2x in CDC.. Both times for BS things. My mexican wife started asking a bunch of questions..badge #, name, etc. We said lets go to the station both times...they said adios both times.

I hate CDC anymore. I got to the point where I no longer want to drive Baja. I live in the los cabos area and we just now fly. There is nothing I can't buy locally that I absolutely need.
Fishabductor

Posted on 6/25/10

Shakedown

Okay, I will add myself to the victim list. On June 21st, we were pulling into CC, heading south to our home in LB. I have been reading the posts recently and decided to play it extra cautious. I started down the center lane, literally going 10 mph. I stopped at every light, crosswalk and stop sign. I noticed one police officer had someone pulled over on the frontage road. I proceeded south very slowly. About three lights from the end of town, I noticed a police truck turning left in front of me while I was sitting at a red light. He turned left, made a U-Turn and shadowed me on the frontage road the entire rest of the way. Continuing @ 10mph, he finally pulled behind me at the last light and lit me up. When I was chatting with him, he said I failed to stop for pedestrians seven blocks back. Impossible since he only pulled in front of me near the end of town. He told me he was going to keep my license and I could come get it at 8:00 the next morning at the police station or........ $500 pesos right now. I pondered letting him keep my license and just getting a new one when I returned to the states, but figured that might not be that bright. After negotiating for several minutes, we agreed on $400 pesos and we were on our way. He even extended his hand out to shake my hand. He was polite even after I told him that everybody knows what is going on here and that he is only hurting his own community by harassing tourists. I asked him who would ever want to come stay in this town with all of the police extortion and he simply laughed and said not my problem.

I will be driving back north in a few weeks to continue the saga. It is a shame, because I normally stay there for lunch and a few beers. Not anymore!!!!

Peloncito

posted on 6-27-2010 at 09:16 PM
Hola, there was a post on the western onion about an art festival in la paz in november. i emailed the person promoting it and told her that our annual caravan of older travelers in southern baja changed our minds about attending it due to the C.C. situation and were fearful of being harassed going and coming back through C.C. so this year, we'll do more of the U.S. as we should also put monies into our own economy.

we feel so sad for the people that aren't involved with this self seving type of conduct that will only hurt the honest and hardworking people.

YES...GO TO OTHER WEBSITES ! give them feedback as to why people are being discouraged from going further than loreto.

don't be laxidaisical as we need to have this harrassment stopped !

BIEN SALUD MRS. RAT

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 04:19 PM

This just came in:

Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

wmaster@pgr.gob.mx
The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.

Keep us posted on what you are doing about the extortion of US citizens in Ciudad Constitution.

Iflyfishwithaboneinmyteeth

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
This just came in:

Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

wmaster@pgr.gob.mx

Iflyfishwithaboneinmyteeth

That sure looks like the ole webmaster@.... address. If so, the techie running the website, even if s/he read email, probably would just ignore the message.

Filing a complaint to the PGR using this form might work:

http://www.pgr.gob.mx/denuncia/denuncia.asp

here's a translation - using the translated form to submit the complaint probably won't work.

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by k-rico]

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 06:05 PM

Likewise, for the Secretaria de la Funcion Publica

A link on this page, http://funcionpublica.gob.mx/index.php/contacto/atencion-ciu... , went to the following form for filing a complaint:

http://web2.tramitanet.gob.mx/JSP/secodam/quejas/Dquejaodenu...

translation

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 06:17 PM

If this website ever comes back up, it would probably lead to a good place to make a complaint.

http://turismo.bcs.gob.mx/directorio.html

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 06:33 PM

Tell the boss!!!!

The government of Comondu, the municipality that CC is part of:

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by k-rico]

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 06:52 PM

K-Rico

K Rico amigo!!! Well done!! Now lets get the emails going. Blast them!! Cut, paste and blast! Let our voices be heard!

I hope we can innumdate them with emails. I will be providing the stories, all you have to do is tell yours or comment on how you intend to modify your plans to avoid Ciudad Constitution and the extortion of the police.

As Dennis said, this sort of action stopped the extortion on the Toll Road, lets stop this extortion on The Only Road Connecting Northern and Southern Baja!

There is strength in numbers.

Tag, you're it!

Ifyfish

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 06:59 PM

Blasting them with complaints might be a way to go.

But I'm wondering if professionally done message by perhaps a Mexican lawyer, say one who owns a tourist business, or is a friend of a tourist business owner, claiming police corruption and sent to El Presidente Ibarra might be more effective.

But complaints sent to his secretary, angie89mom@hotmail.com , will probably get to his desk.

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by k-rico]

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 07:00 PM

K-rico

Should I send my email in english or spanish? I plan to send the exact email that I sent to the webmaster and the other government official.

Filing a complaint to the PGR using this form might work:

http://www.pgr.gob.mx/denuncia/denuncia.asp

here's a translation - using the translated form to submit the complaint probably won't work.

If it is better to send it in Spanish, then I could use some help with a translation of what I have written as found in my post above posted on 6-29-2010 at 11:06 PM.

I plan to send a copy to every one listed above, every one! Let the buzz begin!

We will soon have a guage of our collective Nomad power and the power of the internet a tool we all know how to use.

IflyfishandwhenIhookIdon'treleasetillit'sinthenetorgaffed!huelga!

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Iflyfish]

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 07:06 PM

K-rico,

I am open to approach this any way we can. My thought was to have a Nomad with good language skills translate what I have written above and send it to everyone that I can. My thought is to shake all of the trees and see what fruit drops.

I others want to send Spanish Language messages maybe other nomads would volunteer to do the translations for them.

Iflyfishwithmynomadamigos!

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 07:14 PM

Jeez I dunno. Maybe handling it locally by contacting Ibarra would be the quickest and most effective way to go. Plus I think a local citizen of some standing presenting the problem in a quiet manner to the boss is more of a Mexican way of doing things.

Mentioning that if the problem is not solved state and possibly federal authorities will be contacted might be good but, IMHO, I think to those folks this problem won't make the daily to do list.

k-rico - 6-29-2010 at 07:22 PM

I'm going to keep a printout of the list of officials clearly visible on my dashboard the next time I drive through CC.

Anybody with Arizona plates driven through CC lately?

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by k-rico]

jbcoug - 6-29-2010 at 08:37 PM

I really like and appreciate the list k-rico supplied. I would be interested in seeing the reaction if I was stopped and I showed the officer the list and asked which of these individuals I should call first to verify that it is ok to pay him on the spot.

John

shari - 6-29-2010 at 08:45 PM

sirenita would probably translate any letter you might want to send...u2U her.

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 10:32 PM

Good one jbcoug

Great idea, particularly if we have paved the way with emails to them about our feelings about extortion by police in Ciudad Constitution.

Let them know who we are and what our concerns are and then REALLY contact them if you are pulled over for mordida in Ciudad Constitution!

Lets send them enough email on this to make them SICK of us!!

Tag, you're it. It only takes a few minutes to compose an email, cut and paste it and send it to the email addresses above.

Iflyfish - 6-29-2010 at 10:38 PM

Here is the list of officials in a form that you can copy and paste to your emails.

I am not familiar with these offices and what their functions are. It looks like there are folks on this list that might be interested in hearing from us.

Please cut and past those individuals who we would best send our complaints to.

The list:

Presidente Municipal
C. Dr. Joel Villegas Ibarra
C. Angelica Murguia, Secretaria Particular
Angie89mom@hotmail.com

Comunicacion Social
Director de Comunicacion Social
Elmetichon_corp@hotmail.com

Tesoreria General
C. Lic. Sergio Aviles Mendoza
Sam.0318@hotmail.com

C. Adolfo Meza De LA Abadia Y Correa
Adolfo_m77@hotmail.com

C. Antonio Ezequiel Espinoza Estrada
A_espinoza_estrada@hotmail.com

C. Sandra Romero Geraldo
Geraldo_romero@hotmail.com

C. Ramon Ulises Lopez Loya
grillololo@hotmail.com

C. Lic. Marco Antonio Garcia Rivas
garciatyt@hotmail.com

Recursos Humanos
C. Raul Avila Camacho
Raulrodino489@hotmail.com

Direccion DE Cultura Y Juventud
C. Elliot Paulino Sanchez Esparza
elliotsanz@hotmail.com

Asesoria Juridica
C. Lic. Sergio Antonio Romero Felix
licsergiofeliz@hotmail.com

Asersoria Jurididica
C. Lic. Sergio Antonio Romero Felix
elliotsanz@hotmail.com

C. Lic. Aldo Alejandro Lopex Gomez
Lic_adolopez@hotmail.com

Departamento de Informatica
C. Joel Enrique Martinez Corral
Jemc20@hotmail.com

Registro Publico
C. Lic. Maria Cristina Teran Card##as
Lic.teran@hotmail.com

Catastro Y Fundo Legal
C. Jose Felipe Hernandez Arvizu
jofelfundolegal@hotmail.com

Contraloria
C. C.P. Baldemar Gomez Lucero
Bllde_mar1@hotmail.com

Escuela De Musica
C. Prof. Enrique Garcia Soto
Josehenri62@hotmail.com

Accion Civica Y Social
C. Prof. Rafael Bareno Nunez
Rafa.elba.reno@hotmail.com

Obras Publicas
C. ARQ. Armanado Mayoral Vidal
Armavi.2000@hotmail.com

Desarrollo Social Economico Y ecologico
C. Ing. Sergio Martin Felix Contreras
serfelixcomondu@hotmail.com

Seguridad Publica Y Transito
C. Tent. Alvaro Orlando Gerardo Cabanillas
Z1comondu@hotmail.com

C. Lic. William Nunez Jordan
williamnunezjordan@yahoo.com.mx

C. Lic. Roberto Higuera Fernandez
Roberto-higuera@hotmail.com

C. Gonzalo Carreno Martinez
Goocar_@hotmail.com

SAPA
C. Lic. Enrique Borjorquez Card##as
enboca@gmail.com

C. Lic. Juanita Zamundio Beltran
Juani_zamudio@hotmail.com

C. Ing. Donaciano Camacho Astorga
dcaastor@hotmail.com

C. Zuleika Lizet Espinoza Mora
zzuly@hotmail.com

Secretaria de la Funcion Publica

A link on this page, http://funcionpublica.gob.mx/index.php/contacto/atencion-ciu... , went to the following form for filing a complaint:

http://web2.tramitanet.gob.mx/JSP/secodam/quejas/Dquejaodenu...

translation

Procuraduria General DE LA Republica

http://www.pgr.gob.mx/denuncia/denuncia.asp

Feedback please on who should receive copies. The guy in charge of music is probably out, but don't know what the other bureaus do.

When I get this sorted out I will email a copy of the post summarizing all of the incidents found on this and other sites regarding the police extortion in Ciudad Constitution and hope you all will also send emails to these people.

I will as for help with translation of my post when I find out who to send them to.

Thanks,

Tag, you're it!

Thanks,

Iflyfishandfeellikewearegettingsomewherewiththisconfusionofbureaurocracies

Iflyfish - 6-30-2010 at 06:17 AM

Shari

Done

Muchas Gracias Amiga

Iflyfish

Osprey - 6-30-2010 at 06:20 AM

The Billfish Foudation and others are making great headway with Mexican authority by showing just how much money Mexico is losing because they have sold all their fish. It takes some guesstimating but it works.

If you take the known complaints, estimate those you don't know about, suppose that the vehicle stopped and shopped, you can make a guess about how much they would spend on gas/food/booze/ice/lodging, etc. Add that up, make sure it's in millions of pesos and push hard to show that the people of Constitucion are losing that money to the police action every day, every week, etc. It adds up fast because the cops get a shot at every vehicle coming down and going back up --- there's only one Highway 1.

Iflyfish - 6-30-2010 at 06:40 AM

Good one Osprey! Money talks, B.S. walks!

I would estimate that I would spend between $100 - $350 if I were to spend two nights in the RV Park, eat out in town, hire a guide to take me fishing/whale watching and fill my vehicle with gas.

Using this conversion site
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
100.00 USD = 1,288.74 MXN
350.00 USD = 4,510.56 MXN

So conservatively speaking my two night stay in Ciudad Constitution would net business in that town between 1,288.74 - 4,510.56 pesos. That is serious money to lose to a small time thug who is hitting me up for 20% of what I might spend there.

Nomads

How much do you think you would be spending for a night in Ciudad Constitution?

Iflyfish

Osprey - 6-30-2010 at 06:47 AM

Let's see:
Gas = about 400 pesos
Lodging = maybe 500 pesos
Dinner = maybe 500 pesos
Booze = almost 3,000 pesos
Tour the ostrich farm = 4,000 pesos
One ostrich (on sale) = about 30,000 pesos
I'm just guessing of course. Every trip is different.

Iflyfish - 6-30-2010 at 06:56 AM

That's serious ostrich there amigo

It looks like you would spend at the very least $1,500 - $2,000 pesos.

That's a lot of pesos that those small minded cops are taking out of the tills of the local businesses. That is just one car with two people spending one night!! And that doesn't include the Ostrich and a minimal booze purchase.

Thanks Osprey.

How about other Nomads? There have been over 5,000 views of this thread. How much do Nomads spend in Ciudad Constitution?

Iflyfishandamgettingsomewherenow

k-rico - 6-30-2010 at 08:22 AM

I bought a used alternator there and paid a mechanic to splice it in. It wasn't exactly the correct one, but it worked, except it didn't output enough juice with A/C blower on.

He used some great blue tape to wrap the splices.

The fun of driving old trucks around baja.

El Comadante Loco - 6-30-2010 at 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fly Fish
That's serious ostrich there amigo

.

How about other Nomads? There have been over 5,000 views of this thread. How much do Nomads spend in Ciudad Constitution?

Iflyfishandamgettingsomewherenow

Two yrs ago: mechanic, $175, dinner $450 pesos, gas 3 vehicles, $1600 pesos, groceries and beer $1250 pesos.

Osprey - 6-30-2010 at 08:46 AM

Flyguy, here’s another format that might be convincing. I don’t know how to use Office or other tools to do this SIDE BY SIDE but that would be affective I think:

Reasons to Not Visit Baja California by Road going South

1. Waiting time or problems at the Border Entry
2. Possible victim of crime/drugs near the border
3. Having to pay $500 U.S. dollars to pass through Ciudad Constitucion
on the way to La Paz and Los Cabos

Reasons to Not Return by road from vacation in Southern Baja

1. Having to pay $500 U.S. dollars to pass through Ciudad Constitucion
on the way back north.
2. Possible victim of crime/drugs near the border
3. Waiting time or problems at the Border Exit

Iflyfish - 6-30-2010 at 09:44 AM

El Comadante Loco

Gracias.

That is a total of 3,475 pesos. It adds ups quick doesn't it.

The three of us so far you, Osprey, and I would spend a total of approximately $9,935 pesos in Ciudad Constitution when we visit that city.

El Comandanee Loco = $3,475
Osprey = $1,500 - $2,000 pesos.
Iflyfish = $1,288.74 - 4,510.56
Total approximately = $9,935 pesos/3 = $3,245 pesos average spent in Ciudad Constitution per visit.

In US Dollars that translates into approximately $252.67 per person who stops in Ciudad Constitution.

This is a conservative estimate; around $3,245 pesos ($250 US) is lost each time one of us decides not to stop in Ciudad Constitution.

I wonder how many US Citizens stop in Ciudad Constitution in one day?

If only ten of us spend a night in Ciudad Constitution that represents approximately $2,500 US dollars or $32,115.37 MXN.

Multiply that by 7 days per week and you have a total potential income from US Citizens of $224,775.37 MXN ($17,500 US) per week.

Multiply that by 4 weeks and you have a total potential income from US Citizens of $898,934.15 MXN ($70,000 US) per month.

There is a lot of money to be lost by Ciudad Constitution if Nomads decide to boycot this city!

How much do you spend in Ciudad Constitution?

Iflyfish

rhintransit - 6-30-2010 at 10:35 AM

I'm looking to buy a new bed, mattress, box springs. ordinarily I'd go to Constitucion and check out the big stores there. that would mean a fill up in town and lunch and wandering around and buying this and that stuff that catches one's eye, is on the 'to-get' list.
but, having done the 'avoid the cops' in Constitucion routine far too many times this year already, I'm gonna pass and shop instead in Loreto, Mulege, and/or Santa Rosalia. I haven't gotten shaken down in Constitucion yet, but at least five people from my immediate area have been in the last two months. it's a real drag to have to consider the risk of getting stopped by corrupt cops when making travel/shopping plans.

Bajahowodd - 6-30-2010 at 04:32 PM

Given its location in the spectrum of Baja journeys, I have to admit that other than buying Pemex at the station in Insurgentes, which is obviously not in CC, where the turn is, and having breakfast at EL Taste, nothing I've seen in the area has beckoned to me to stop. I imagine that folks who live full time in BCS, especially those North of Cd. Constitucion, may well consider it to be a resource. I would imagine that many others who are really just passing through would feel similarly.

monoloco - 6-30-2010 at 04:43 PM

I do like to eat birria at El Palenque.

DENNIS - 6-30-2010 at 05:41 PM

OK...IFLY/Rick and BajaGuy/Terry................When you find that your efforts don't produce results, which they won't, consider my plan.
You are deluding yourselves with your thoughts that the government isn't aware of the situation.
They are, they have been and they will be.

What I'm saying is, WAKE UP. The people you appeal to are part of the Mexican System.
Do you even begin to understand what I'm saying?

This is how Mexico works. It's a means of control and if you ever think your rendetion of right and wrong will influence these people, well.....you're wrong.
You're also arrogant to think you can run your game on your host. Right or wrong....you can't and shouldnt try.

Back to our issue......
I told you before...let the business people in the area decide your issue for you. They will when they realize the cause and effect which you present. Show them the cause of their loss and they'll scream bloody murder and give you effect.
The problem will end.

No No No...not you guys. You insist on pleading to people and agencies like they never heard of these atrocities. You're going to appeal to their U.S. mindset of decency and legality which they don't, even for a moment, have.
Do yourselves a favor and don't bother groveling to these agencys. They won't do anything without the approval of the CC PD.
The agencys with which you think you're communicating with are laughing at you.

In fact...so am I.

Osprey - 6-30-2010 at 05:58 PM

Well, Dennis, we'll see who laughs last. Now we will go into Full Court Press. I'll send you photos before Holloween of the cops in CC handing out flowers to passing motorists with little cards attached that say "Desculpa, por favor".

chnlisle - 6-30-2010 at 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What I'm saying is, WAKE UP. The people you appeal to are part of the Mexican System. Do you even begin to understand what I'm saying?

This is how Mexico works. It's a means of control and if you ever think your rendetion of right and wrong will influence these people, well.....you're wrong. You're also arrogant to think you can run your game on your host...

The agencys with which you think you're communicating with are laughing at you.

In fact...so am I.

Dennis is Fulano.

comitan - 6-30-2010 at 07:24 PM

Dennis is not Fulano, and he is telling it like it is, if you have the USA mindset you will always have problems.

Iflyfish - 6-30-2010 at 07:47 PM

I respect both Dennis and Comitan, both great Nomads. I understand where you are coming from. I really do. I may be doing a big Sancho Panza, but that's ok with me. I have nothing to lose and the possibiltiy of making a difference, I will do that if I can.

I have no illusions, I have been traveling to Mexico since I was 17, now 65, I have paid my share of mordida. I understand the culture. I am interested to know if there is a possibility of making some change using the power of the internet and the collective wisdom of this group as to how we might approach this.

This is an issue that affects every Nomad who must travel thru Ciudad Constitution, there have been many complaints and warnings about this. I hope that with the help of others we MAY have an impact. If there was ever an issue for us to get together on, this is a good one.

I believe that self interest is a powerful motivator and Baja is hurting right now and Ciudad Constitution particularly since the Hurricane and the drop in tourist dollars. There may be enough self interest on the part of business people in this town to stop the crooked cops from robbing them via this tactic of extortion of US Citizens traveling through their town.

There is a real economic impact to each business in town from this sort of activity, very real. I intend to let them know that impact in what ever way is best to do that. I don't live there. I don't know who the people with the most authority or impact are. I don't know who might be able to stop this practice, if anyone can. I intend to do what I can to find out.

I have the great luxery of being retired and have time. I also don't live in Ciudad Constitution so I don't have to deal with direct confrontation from the cops in my own home town. I get that it may be very hard for locals to confront this. I don't care if they laugh at me. Not a problem for me.

I appreciate your perspective, and you may be right, probably are, but I intend to follow through with this and hope others will join me in contacting what ever authorities may have a vested interest in stopping this robbery on the ony highway that connects N and S Baja.

I will keep you posted on what comes of my efforts and hope others will chime in on this too. Nothing ventured and nothing lost. A bit of time sending emails is not hard to do. I will keep you posted on the translation to my letter and hope others will help clarify the issue of who best to send this information to.

I am off to our daughter's wedding and will return next Tues when I will again pick up this crudgen and hopefully will have a translation for my letter ready to send.

Iflyfish

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-30-2010 at 07:54 PM

Just tell them in Español "Chupa mi "V" piinche extorsionista." If they take you into custody oh well at least you stood your ground.

gnukid - 6-30-2010 at 07:56 PM

Using the form mailers and email addresses will cause people serving in the current government to receive the emails. They probably will laugh and won't care as Dennis points out. They probably have no control nor desire for the job of taking on the problem. They will likely forward the emails to a list of people and eventually everyone in the local office of the current government will see the emails.

The possible reactions are: 1) resentment to whoever they feel sent them the messages. 2) they will think the people who got hassled deserve it because they can afford it and those tourists don't contribute enough anyway.

But, the message will be sent and received which is the point of communication.

A powerful technique would include a specific case which names a specific person, time, location and has some evidence of the unlawful action in addition to reporting this to the officers plus report it to tv and print news agencies and include witnesses, photos, video, names and the whole deal. The public humiliation is a strong form of social peer pressure to require someone who misbehaves to behave socially.

DENNIS - 6-30-2010 at 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
"Chupa mi "V" piinche extorsionista." quote]

No, David, No. Never abuse your Viagra. :lol:

comitan - 6-30-2010 at 08:07 PM

An example Comitan is a popular place for Semana Santa, and our beaches afterward were also heaped with trash. Every year the homeowners in Comitan would clean up the beach. About 3 years ago after Semana Santa when we were to clean up the beach, the local TV station was notified they sent a video crew and it was on the TV stations. Now 3 years later before Semana Santa the city brings out porta potties, and afterward they send out crews and trucks to clean up the mess. THE POWER OF TELEVISION. :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 6-30-2010 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
I may be doing a big Sancho Panza, but that's ok with me.

It's OK with me too, Rick. Your enthusiasm with this issue is noble and admirable.
I just feel sorry for you because you're being confronted with good ol' American apathy. Most Nomads [shame on you] just want to , as in every other freakin important issue, not get involved.
So sad.

Well...do your best, Rick. Those that try to improve the Baja Experience are the pioneers. The others are just tourists.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-30-2010 at 08:28 PM

WHOA !!!! PLEASE, let's stop all this chest beating and get back to the subject. let's not go one against the other but try to reach peaceful means of deciding and invoking a plan on how to get a peaceful resolution to this insidious situation !

TOO MANY DISTRACTIONS !!!! TOO MUCH CROSS TALK !!! so many great ideas and we need to get together on these as we are all going north and south of cc and need to focus to keep our voices together as a group. PLEASE !!!

OR WE WILL NEVER WIN !!!!

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT KEPP YOUR EGOS AT THE DOOR !!!!
lots of differnt ideas and no central way to project and present them divided, we will definitely fail. we can be such a strong voice together and we must as there does not seem to be any other avenues at this point in time.

DENNIS - 6-30-2010 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJA.DESERT.RAT
let's stop all this chest beating and get back to the subject.

OK....What's your suggestion? The issue needs support.

Alan - 6-30-2010 at 08:45 PM

My personal belief is that contacting the government groups will probably only be minimally effective as I don't think they really care for foreign interference in their system. Where we can be heard is with our tourist dollars. Start writing to all of the Tourist Boards as well as those that work in the tourist industry and we will be heard. The economy is bad everywhere and our tourist dollars hold more weight than ever before but we will lose this opportunity if we continue to do nothing or bicker among ourselves. And yes I have personally been bitten in CC for allegedly speeding while following a hay truck over the topes :lol:

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by Alan]

Business info

bajaguy - 6-30-2010 at 09:01 PM

Would be nice to get a list of businesses in CC with e-mail addresses............I am a beliver in voting with my checkbook/VISA card........let the business owners know why we won't be spending $$$ in their town

chnlisle - 6-30-2010 at 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I consider that a compliment......moreso if you had any idea of who Fulano is.
Do you have any idea of who you speak or are you simply running your bullchiiit mouth.

Hey Zeus, that was meant as a compliment, as Fulano and you are some of the few with the big picture. Look back a few pages and you'll see I've already sent queja emails to various ministries.

By the way, I think this is Fulano's blog:

***********.blogspot.com

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by chnlisle]

Alan - 7-1-2010 at 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Would be nice to get a list of businesses in CC with e-mail addresses............I am a beliver in voting with my checkbook/VISA card........let the business owners know why we won't be spending $$$ in their town

I don't think we should only limit ourselves to businesses in CC. We need to include all points south of there as well. As hard hit as things are here in La Paz I don't think they would take too kindly to having their tourist dollars being forced to run a guantlet. It is a mexican problem and it will ultimately be up to mexicans to resolve it. We can only do our best to show them it is in their best interest to resolve the problem. It worked great in the Rosarito corridor.

ELINVESTIG8R - 7-1-2010 at 03:12 AM

Can I just say the only way to stop this is for each person to put on their war face and stand their ground. Look into the police officer's eyes and with your war face firmly in place tell the police officer in no uncertain terms that you have done nothing wrong. Tell him you are not going to pay money to an extortionist police officer. Invite them to take you to a judge or put out your two wrists and invite him to handcuff you and take you to jail because you are not paying him anything. Just stand your ground firmly. He will either back off invite you to see the judge or falsely arrest you. It's a chance you take but he'll know you are not pussyfooting around and have balls. They will respect or fear someone with balls. This is the only way you are going to stop it but it has some risk. Just have someone on the outside who can bail you out if need be. If you get handcuffed, in your "Last great act of defiance" you can tell the police officer"Chupa mi "V" Piinché extorsionista."

In solidarity,

David Elinvestig8r M

Alan

bajaguy - 7-1-2010 at 05:43 AM

If you provide the names and e-mail addresses, I will write them

Iflyfish - 7-1-2010 at 06:13 AM

So far I have done the following:
1. Composed a letter citing incidents I have found on this site and on the web.
2. I have sent this letter to one agency, see thread.
3. I have compiled a list of agencies to send this to and have posted those agencies in a cut and paste format, see thread.
4. I have asked that my letter be translated. I will send it in English if I do not have a translation.
5. I have asked for recommendations of others we might want to send emails to.
6. I am leaving to marry off our daughter and will be gone till next Tuesday.
7. When I return I will get back to this issue and hopefully have more specific input about who to send our letters to.
8. Upon my return I will post a summary of what I have learned from your postings and post a copy of what I have written and to whom I sent it.

I have no illusions about this impacting the ongoing extortion of US Citizens in Ciudad Constitution. This may or may not have any impact on the problem. I am responding to a number of posts on this site regarding this well known extortion of Nomads. I am unwilling to do nothing and hope that we Nomads will exert some pressure on these folks and use our common knowledge to do so.

As an old man I still have a wind mill or two to tilt and will enjoy discussing what is perhaps a march to folly with Nomads we meet on our next trip to Baja this November - January.

Tag, you're it.

Iflyfishandperiodicallytiltwindmills

Alan - 7-1-2010 at 06:18 AM

Iflyfish - Salud!

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by Alan]

US Consulate - Tijuana

bajaguy - 7-1-2010 at 06:29 AM

Another avenue to get the word out........

http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/contact_us.html

U.S. Consul General, Steven B. Kashkett
US Consulate, Tijuana

Deputy Chief of American Citizen Services
Sarah H Schmidt
US Consulate, Tijuana

Interesting information from their site:

http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/citizen_services.html

No police officer is authorized to accept money

Traffic fines must be paid at the nearest Police Department Office

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by bajaguy]

rhintransit - 7-1-2010 at 06:38 AM

good on you Iflyfish and thanks for going at this windmill. those who blast others for not 'getting' the Mexican WAY (often a totally erroneous assumption) seem to have embraced not getting involved as a way of life. as long as it doesn't happen to them...or cost them too much when it happens to them...it's fine to throw rocks at people who do.
we pick our battles. Loreto Immigration is a good recent example. tons of you didn't get involved (which I can certainly understand), a handful of us did. a change was made. sometimes someone has to stand up and say "no more."
will anything anyone here does change the cops in Constitucion? is it a place to draw a line in the sand? "possibly not" is the answer to both questions but doing nothing makes each one of us who pays the "toll" there part of the problem.

Iflyfish - 7-1-2010 at 06:42 AM

Bajaguy, I will add this to the list.

Saludos Equalamente, pardon mi Espanol es mal, solamente por cervesa e comida, tiempo por pescador moscos to vamanos. Mi Espanol :no:

mui malo.

Iflyfishwithrottenspanishexplatives

DENNIS - 7-1-2010 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chnlisle
Hey Zeus, that was meant as a compliment,

Things look different today. Sorry for the bad reaction. You caught me in the bottom of a mood swing.

gnukid - 7-1-2010 at 08:39 AM

Not sure it matters, but many of the BCS funcionaries under the current administration resigned yesterday to run for office in the next election and new officers were named in the interin, I gather:

Here are the newly assigned representatives for today!

* Alfredo Porras Domínguez, Secretario General
* Jacobo Turique, Secretario de Turismo
* Garibaldo Romero, Oficial Mayor
* Alberto Márquez, director del DIF
* René Meza, director de planeación SEP
* Rosalía Romero, directora del CERESO
* Martín Ibarra, API de Santa Rosalía
* Diego García, administrador de Junta Estatal de Caminos
* Amelia Guzmán, administrativo de Obras Públicas (SEPUIE)
* Rafael Salvador Guevara, administrativo de Desarrollo

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/los-nuevos-f...

DENNIS - 7-1-2010 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Here are the newly assigned representatives for today!

Don't you think these people were put in place because they're safe and won't do anything at all?

Secretary of Tourism

bajaguy - 7-1-2010 at 10:16 AM

This is NOT and advertisement............

The Baja Book Festival will take place on Saturday, October 9, 2010, at Joann Jones Gallery in Cantamar.

In partnership with the Secretary of Tourism, the Rosarito Beach Convention & Visitors Bureau, and the Baja Times, the Baja Book Festival will showcase authors (English and Spanish language) and publishers, and will also feature music, food and wine, and more.

Might be a good opportunity to get some "face time" with the Secretary of Tourism...........even though the Secretary is not from BCS....still might be worth a shot........also speak to the Baja Times..........

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by bajaguy]

desertcpl - 7-1-2010 at 10:18 AM

I have been following this now for awhile. here is my take on this.
I personally have no beef with CC police, I have driven thru many times in the past, years ago with out any problems, but obviously thing have changed.
what is the best approach to this problem? who knows
but I think as a group your going to have alot more clout on this as opposed to just one person complaining.
I for one dont think confronting the police will not change anything, this needs to be addressed from the top down, there has been some real good ideas on this, so confront this on all available avenues

good luck and if there is anything that I can do just let me know

ken/jane

yuma,az

[Edited on 7-2-2010 by desertcpl]

DENNIS - 7-1-2010 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Might be a good opportunity to get some "face time" with the Secretary of Tourism...........even though the Secretary is not from BCS....still might be worth a shot........also speak to the Baja Times..........

In which case, the Sec. of Tourism will slide a business card into your shirt pocket and say, "Call my office."

The Baja Times? The one owned by Torres? Do you think for a minute that he will print one word that would upset his counter-part in the Brotherhood of Mayors?
Very unlikely.
Did the mayor of CC admonish Torres and tell him publicly to straighten out his police force?
Again...very unlikely.

I'll keep saying it over and over 'cause I'm bored and don't have anything else to do. Every law officer in Mexico is part of this large group who are governed by an unwritten set of rules that demand fidelity.
Allied and loyal to this group are the politicos who rely on law officers for protection.
Joined at the hip with the city administrators are the state officials of the same party who have the ear of federal officials who are in place to repay the state and city officials for continued loyalty.
If you're looking for an individual at any one of these levels to maverick out and go against the grain of the tree which supports them, your search will be lengthy. Very very lengthy.

You guys are urinating into the chubasco. Oh, well....I'm glad it's your hobby and not mine.

dtbushpilot - 7-1-2010 at 01:03 PM

Has anyone posted the location of the police department? Sorry if I missed it. If so please post it again so that I/we will know where to go if the cop doesn't back off when I stand my ground....thanks...dt

mtgoat666 - 7-1-2010 at 01:05 PM

is this the don quixote thread?

boe4fun - 7-1-2010 at 01:06 PM

I will be driving down to La Paz in Sept/Oct for our semi annual clinic with the La Balandra Rotary club. I will be taking down an abundant amount of used parts/supplies as well as some (new) material for the manufacture of artificial limbs and orthopedic braces. I know that this is a ways off, but if I'm stopped for no reason I plan on contacting my friend in La Paz, Dr. Alejandro Aguirre Chavez, who is our contact down there and is the prime mover in the workings of the ongoing clinic. The La Balandra Rotary Club, although a small number of individuals, seem to have a lot of political clout because of their involvment in a number of humanitarian projects in BCS. They have ties to the Mayor of La Paz as well as the Governor of BCS (the wife of the Governor was a guest speaker at one of our clinics). Perhaps some of the nomads can communicate with some members of the La Balandra Rotarians with these issues so they may contact the local authorities and see if something might be done. They are: Dr. Alejandro Aguirre: aguirrechavez@yahoo.com or aguirrechavez@gmail.com Greg Edwards: mobilizemankind@yahoo.com George Pickett: jorgepickett@hotmail.com Oscar: osatletismo@hotmail.com Rafael: rguillen@grupolajolla.com.mx Teresa: tereflo2001@prodigy.net.mx
I will forward to all of them the link to this post, follow up emails may instill the sense of urgency. Buena suerte a todo, Paul Boe

Bajahowodd - 7-1-2010 at 01:56 PM

Just thinking that the municipality could probably replace and even increase revenues currently being extorted from travelers via the various mythical infractions. All they need to do is set up some serious radar on the highway between the two towns. Face it. Everyone speeds along that stretch. That way, folks who really take issue with the shakedown bite would have an actual chance to avoid it by simply not exceeding the speed limit.

DENNIS - 7-1-2010 at 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Has anyone posted the location of the police department? Sorry if I missed it. If so please post it again so that I/we will know where to go if the cop doesn't back off when I stand my ground....thanks...dt

Hope this helps:

Services in Constitución include: police, on Olachea opposite the turn-off for Puerto San Carlos (☎ 132 0388), Olachea 200, at Independencia. Postal Code: 23600

http://tinyurl.com/2enhfpc

mtgoat666 - 7-1-2010 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

why don't y'all convoy-up on edge of town and request escort thru town? perhaps green angels or fed troops or an attorney or even your mommy could escort you :lol:

place billboards at either end of town, saying convoy departs every 1/2 hour -- now you just need hire a wagon train leader with huevos to lead you thru gauntlet :lol:

fishabductor - 7-1-2010 at 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boe4fun
I will be driving down to La Paz in Sept/Oct for our semi annual clinic with the La Balandra Rotary club. I will be taking down an abundant amount of used parts/supplies as well as some (new) material for the manufacture of artificial limbs and orthopedic braces. I know that this is a ways off, but if I'm stopped for no reason I plan on contacting my friend in La Paz, Dr. Alejandro Aguirre Chavez, who is our contact down there and is the prime mover in the workings of the ongoing clinic. The La Balandra Rotary Club, although a small number of individuals, seem to have a lot of political clout because of their involvment in a number of humanitarian projects in BCS. They have ties to the Mayor of La Paz as well as the Governor of BCS (the wife of the Governor was a guest speaker at one of our clinics). Perhaps some of the nomads can communicate with some members of the La Balandra Rotarians with these issues so they may contact the local authorities and see if something might be done. They are: Dr. Alejandro Aguirre: aguirrechavez@yahoo.com or aguirrechavez@gmail.com Greg Edwards: mobilizemankind@yahoo.com George Pickett: jorgepickett@hotmail.com Oscar: osatletismo@hotmail.com Rafael: rguillen@grupolajolla.com.mx Teresa: tereflo2001@prodigy.net.mx
I will forward to all of them the link to this post, follow up emails may instill the sense of urgency. Buena suerte a todo, Paul Boe

I am pretty sure my wife and I met you last year at El Morro in Santa Rosialia, you guys just got back from the cave paintings at SF.

boe4fun - 7-2-2010 at 08:54 AM

Yup, That was us. About half of the time when we drive down one of our volunteers, Dr. Bob Haining, can get an extra week off and when that happens we try to plan a side trip - cave paintings, whale watching, etc. While at the hotel we were able to see a little girl with a gun shot wound to her hip that resulted in a "drop-foot" necessitating the use of a below the knee brace (AFO) along with a shoe lift for the leg length discrepancy. Our stop at the hotel saved her parents a trip down to La Paz as we were able to make her new brace and shoe lift at our lab in La Paz and fit and deliver them on our return trip. Were you guys there the morning I locked my keys in my truck while it was running? Maybe a story for another time!

SiReNiTa - 7-2-2010 at 11:47 AM

Oh jeez I just wrote a whole looong response and it got erased...crapola...

Here goes again...my points in a nutshell...

1-I admire and respect the efforts being made to stop or at least minimize the amount of corruption in C.D.C and I will help in any way I can by translating letters if needed, u2u for email.

2- I think both Dennis and Comitan have a point, as sad as it is to admit it, but the officials usually do very little about issues like this, especially because it's so broadly known and accepted, which of course is the big mistake.
Many of the police are, as it was said before on this thread, uneducated and not wealthy, which is no excuse at all, but it is what it is. I AM IN NO WAY SUPPORTING OR TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS! I'm just stating what I have observed.

IMO, working together and not giving up is the best way to stop this issue.
Bringing together all of the suggestions made on this thread such as standing our ground when stopped for B.S. reasons, sending letters, telling stories, raising awareness, etc etc.

All of this brings something that my mom used to tell me when I would complain about bullies or people that were mean, the more you pay attention to them, the more they will bother you.
And it's true, if they see that what they are doing brings in some cash, then they will keep doing it, how ever, if people start refusing, not in a rude way, but politely asking for a ticket and directions to the police station, maybe asking for the police mans name and badge number, I do believe that they will come to the conclusion that it's not working anymore and they will stop.

Some suggestions:
-Carry a note pad in the glove compartment and, if stopped without reason, ask for name and I.D. number (POLITELY), and write it down.
-Always ask for them to write a ticket (if there was no infraction, there can be no ticket), and offer to pay the fee at the Delegacion.
-Be polite, ALWAYS, no matter how rude they are, that does not mean that one should go down to their level.
-If you are traveling with a woman on board, try letting her drive through the towns, I've heard that many police refuse to stop women because they are less likely to give the "mordida" and are more likely to cause a scandal...but then this is just one of those rumors, so I can't guarantee it will work

It's true that it's scary being stopped, personally it has never happened to me while driving, but I have been a passenger in cars that have been stopped before and it is not pleasant.
But, I will say that although it's a bit intimidating to have someone with a gun come up to your car ( even if he is a police officer ) and ask for money, these men are not killers and I very much doubt that they would hurt anyone for refusing to pay an unjust fee.

DENNIS - 7-2-2010 at 12:08 PM

A well thought-out post, Sirenita. Thanks.

The next time I drive through CC, I'll be wearing lipstick, a big blond wig and falsies the size of cruise missles. :lol:

Alan - 7-2-2010 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

The next time I drive through CC, I'll be wearing lipstick, a big blond wig and falsies the size of cruise missles. :lol:

You will be pulled over just so they can hit on ya!

Bajahowodd - 7-2-2010 at 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
A well thought-out post, Sirenita. Thanks.

The next time I drive through CC, I'll be wearing lipstick, a big blond wig and falsies the size of cruise missles. :lol:

It's not quite the same as an evening at Sharkeys. :lol:

SiReNiTa - 7-2-2010 at 05:15 PM

Oh my lord.... :lol:

Dennis you evil man you almost made me choke on my m&m!!!!

No but seriously, the percentage of women, both mexican and tourist, that get pulled over is far below the mens for some reason. The thing I've heard most is that since women normally refuse to pay anything outside the delegacion, they stopped bothering them, because instead of a mordida they would get their head chewed off

DENNIS - 7-2-2010 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
Oh my lord.... :lol:

Dennis you evil man you almost made me choke on my m&m!!!!

No but seriously, the percentage of women, both mexican and tourist, that get pulled over is far below the mens for some reason.

Hope you took no offense at my funning, mi amorita hija de La bonita madre de la mas bonita hija en este mundo de hijas bonitas.
Your point was well written and understood. I hope other's see it as well.
Thanks again.

[Edited on 7-3-2010 by DENNIS]

comitan - 7-2-2010 at 07:13 PM

Something that works for me is to never make eye contact with a policeman, It works always just look straight ahead. :yes:

SiReNiTa - 7-2-2010 at 08:54 PM

No offense taken at all Dennis, I got a great laugh out of it actually!!

And yes Comitan, that also works most of the time, especially in larger cities where people don't stop at stop signs :lol:

shari - 7-2-2010 at 08:58 PM

I kinda like the idea of goats about calling the green angels to escort you through the gauntlet...if enough people call and request that....it would get some attention and might even work!!!

DENNIS - 7-2-2010 at 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I kinda like the idea of goats about calling the green angels to escort you through the gauntlet...if enough people call and request that....it would get some attention and might even work!!!

That's funny. Calling for them is one thing. Waiting for them to get there is something else.
Of course....it's Baja. Who's in a hurry. :lol:

Packoderm - 7-2-2010 at 11:31 PM

It might be good to just have the co-pilot videotape the trip though town. At least you can post the nonsense here on YouTube for Nomads to view.

cutexianchick - 7-3-2010 at 08:09 AM

Y'all got me scared.. I am driving through in about a week. Im a chick, Ill be driving (i have to drive I get car sick), so does this mean I probably wont get pulled over? If I drive the speed limit and very causious will I still be pulled over? If I get pulled over, then what may happen?

DENNIS - 7-3-2010 at 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cutexianchick
If I get pulled over, then what may happen?

You're ten pages into this thread. Read from the beginning and you'll get a feel for the problem.

SiReNiTa - 7-3-2010 at 08:20 AM

Cutexian, I've driven all through Baja and barely look old enough to have my license and have never been pulled over, I always respect transit rules and go the speed limit, but that's not to say that no one else will get pulled over, that's just my experience.

IF you get pulled over, don't be afraid, I seriously doubt that you are in any danger at all, if the police man asks for money, ask for a ticket and for him to escort you to the station to pay it. Also as said above it might be a good idea to have the other person in the car video taping the whole thing, ask for his name and badge number (numero de placa) politely, I doubt he will insist on taking money after that and if he does...well stand your ground and only pay if you did something wrong.

Have in mind that lots of stop signs in C.C. are a bit hidden and hard to see so it's possible to run a stop sign with out noticing (at least for me since I have not spent much time there and don't know the streets).

Don't get nervous!

@Dennis: :lol:

you have a very very good point!!! I've only heard whispers of the so called green angels...but hey it's worth a try no?

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