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toneart - 7-20-2010 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What's a MEME..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_meme

One conclusion you could draw: If you are a Mason, it is in your DNA. You can't help it. :spingrin:

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
I looked up "meme" in the dictionary----------NOTHING-----------what's a "meme", Gnu.

(my kids and wife think I am a 'nice person'----------I am so hurt that you don't, and shocked to learn that I am 'programmed' and part of a cabal--------I did not realize that.)

Barry

You too, Barry? C'mon, don't fight it: Let's TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!

Masonry? LOLOLOL
:lol:

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 12:02 PM

What's really "Mystifying" is that I was just ridiculing the Freemason Conspiracy theorists, on another Baja forum, yesterday. (I hadn't thought about those paranoics for years.)

Barry A. - 7-20-2010 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What's a MEME..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_meme

Quite obviously my dictionary's are very old (and possibly written by FreeMasons???). :lol:

Thanks, Dennis.

Barry

wessongroup - 7-20-2010 at 12:22 PM

one thing you can't say about gnukid, he doesn't introduce you to new thoughts and/or words ... I for one appreciate his posting a great deal.... makes me have to think.. and/or re-think what I'm talking about..

I certainly need a reality check.. as to say I'm out of the loop .... is a gross understatement...

And I'm peddling as fast as I can...

Thanks to all.. makes my day...

[Edited on 7-20-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 7-20-2010 by wessongroup]

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
I have nothing at stake with MsTerious to lose or be fearful of. She just appeared recently and has no bearing on my life. She certainly is no threat to me. Maybe if I had some good Ganja I could get there.

Don't worry, Toneart: When the time comes for us Devil Worshipers to take over the world, I'll be sure that you are spared!

MsT (Fellow liberal, but don't tell: I'll lose my "mystery.")

[Edited on 7-20-2010 by MsTerieus]

DENNIS - 7-20-2010 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quite obviously my dictionary's are very old (and possibly written by FreeMasons???). :lol:

Thanks, Dennis.

Barry

Nothing's free, Barry. It must be the Reasonable Masons. :lol:

I've tossed out all my dictionarys, Barry. Rarely use one online either.
My favorite method of looking up a word is to put it in Google. It will correct wrong spelling if need be and give you definitions. Give it a try.

The Sheet Skoot, er uh, Skeet Shute!!

Mulegena - 7-20-2010 at 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
I doubt that any of the flower children would be there :lol:

[Edited on 7-17-2010 by baitcast]

You're wrong on that count, baitcast.
... and I be the original flower child. :spingrin:

I look forward to meeting you there. :yes:

nena

Hey, I'm a Flower Child of the 60s, too.
Let's have party in Asuncion, the Berkeley of Baja!!

Mulegena - 7-20-2010 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Hey Skeet, I'll donate a large patio to have the party on...but only if I get to wear my skirt while on the motorcycle.

I'll come only if you do the table dancing.

Motorcycle!
Did somebody say, "Motorcycle,"?
How 'bout it coincide with La Bocana Bicycle Tournament?
Pompano can be the dancing boy and somebody can cook up some chupacabra stew!

From Merriam-Webster's

Dave - 7-20-2010 at 02:18 PM

Psst...You can win money with this.

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
And Barry thank you for noting miss-use of the word irregardless, regardless is correct

Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
Date: circa 1912

nonstandard : regardless
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance.

Barry A. - 7-20-2010 at 02:41 PM

Gnu--------A lot of what you say I have heard the gist of for years, and I did not understand it then, and still don't now. I, and my family, are all happy, successful, and hard working people, including all my kids and grown grandkids ( two new one's are very young, still).

I have always had a great job (Fed. Ranger-now retired 14 years), and life--------NO regrets about anything. I know what worked for me, and my kids, etc. and continue to champion those ideas that worked for us, and I see working for others. It is as simple as that, and only my own family members have really influenced me that much-----I have no other heros other than my 'family', and don't really feel I need anybody else to inspire me.

I draw a modest Govt. pension ($1,600 a month), no Social Security as I consider SS a 'safety net' which I don't need, and make by far most of my living (75+%) from the Global Stock Market, and have for over 30 years, as have my family members. I have saved 30% of my takehome pay for 30 plus years, invested it, and now am reaping the rewards. The things that I say, here, and to anybody that asks, are the accumulated ideas that have worked for me, served me well, and continue to do so, so naturally I think they can work for others, too. It is as simple as that-------there is no "agenda" other than hoped for success for people, and no 'brotherhood' other than a comradre with my fellow Conservatives.

If you think that I am leading a less than satisfactory life, well you are certainly entitled to think that-------I just don't agree. So you will keep doing what you do, and I will keep doing what I do until I see some reason to change.

On a related topic-------In this Country People are sent to prison mostly to segregate them from others in society-----but I don't believe that it relieves them of the responsibility of earning their own way------thus I believe they should work------Sheriff Joe in Maricopa County thinks they should too-------so no, I don't have any problem with women or men working and doing things that I once did, to earn a living, and hopefully aspire to greater things and environments---most will survive and be the better for it. Work is a good experience, I believe, one of the best experiences anybody can have----it certainly always has been for me.. and it leads to self-worth and respect for oneself. I have always championed that, and others who feel the same way.

So there is a little more insight into my child-like and lazy mind-----whether you wanted it, or not. :lol:

I agree that their are unscrupulous people plotting bad things, but I just think it is minor in the scheme of things, and they can be avoided if one is watchful, and headed off by the right votes. Right now, as a Conservative, I also sincerely believe, in a vague sort of way, that the USA Administration is leading us on destructive paths that are counter productive, and in the long run bad for the citizens as a whole. That is not an 'adgenda', not a knee-jerk reaction, nothing organized, -----just self-preservation!!!

Viva Baja.

Barry

Skeet/Loreto - 7-20-2010 at 03:27 PM

BarryA;

You are so well said. There are many as you and I that will see if we can change this Geat Country of ours to again Respect Each Other, Our Flag, our way of LIfe, Our Neighbors.
The Scum like the Kid will always be unclean and unlearned. He will be able to copy others rantings, propse them as his own as he just cries for the ability to be Liked.

As I relate my experiences in Life I hope that someone will try their own Dreams, be Adventerous, see as much as you can! Love, Live,be True to your Heart and Mind.

So many of these Poor young liberals do not have any heart, their Minds have been Clouded by False ideas and Hopes, their eyes controlled by the Internet, Facebook, Twitter and Iphones.

I have a Dream that some of theses New Generation Youngsters can see what is happening and are going to be progressive Conservatives in the Political World..

Life is so Short

Skeet/Loreto - 7-20-2010 at 03:34 PM

Gnudik:
First you are a LIAR about those staements about Freemasonry. Get It? You are Lying and using other Liars words.

Now Why don"t you go to the nwearest Masonic Lodge and make a rational Inquiry about Masorny?? Scared?/ Afraid?? are you so Dumb you cannot find a Lodge.

Gnukid. Just for future Discussion;
Who do you think Starteed the mesico Revolution and seperated the State from the Church??
Who do you think Outlawed and Killed anyone found to be a Mason??

Who Do you think had Lodges in the Catacombs of Rome??

Who do you think built the 32Degree Temple in La Paz.

Who do you think are the Directors of all the General Hospitals in Mexico??

Who do you think the Shriners Are?

Now Gnudik, before you start getting other peoples information and Words, do some research on your on in other places other than Goggle and see if by chance you can come up with a TRUE Answer!!!!

Natalie Ann - 7-20-2010 at 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
I doubt that any of the flower children would be there :lol:

[Edited on 7-17-2010 by baitcast]

You're wrong on that count, baitcast.
... and I be the original flower child. :spingrin:

I look forward to meeting you there. :yes:

nena

Hey, I'm a Flower Child of the 60s, too.
Let's have party in Asuncion, the Berkeley of Baja!!

Sounds good to me, Mulegena.
Asuncion... if it works for you, it'll work for me. Fits my Sur requirement. :spingrin:

And... as a sensitive emotional female I'd like to say that Skeet works just fine for me.
He is one of the good guys, white hat 'n all.

When my Baja friend died unexpectedly and I could not locate his family, Skeet contacted me immediately with info on the best legal council in La Paz.... and he volunteered to come there and help me if I wanted that. When I was gonna fly Baja in a private plane, Skeet filled me in on all his favorite spots to enjoy from the air. And though our views on life may be quite different, he has always had a kind way of teasing me.

I think if you gotta get your panties in a bunch over something Skeet sez, then it's time to relax a bit more.... or learn to ignore posts. But then, like Dennis, I believe there's a certain amount of respect one should show to their elders.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

nena

(Edit: to add.... and Gnu, now you've started it!:lol

[Edited on 7-20-2010 by Natalie Ann]

Brian L - 7-20-2010 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

So many of these Poor young liberals do not have any heart, their Minds have been Clouded by False ideas and Hopes, their eyes controlled by the Internet, Facebook, Twitter and Iphones.

I have a Dream that some of theses New Generation Youngsters can see what is happening and are going to be progressive Conservatives in the Political World..

Life is so Short

So, I use the internet frequently, have a Facebook acount, and an iphone, no Twitter for me though. As to being clouded by false ideas and hopes from these, I don't believe it!

Guess what? Our generation do have minds and can reach our own conclusions. I'm actually more scared of the radio and TV political shows on the right that love to get the older generation worked up. Health Care reform, immigration, muslims, etc...They would have you believe things that they themselves don't actually believe.

I have a dream about Progressive Liberals! Ones that can see through the BS coming at them from the right, and the left, and make educated decisions that help our country, not alienate folks.

Peace!

Skeet/Loreto - 7-20-2010 at 03:58 PM

Oh! Nena: So good to see you Posting. Think that if Life had of been different, you and I would have a Grand Time of Life.

Would you wear that Grass Skirt that Pompano had On??

Wow!
Everything fine hear, off to Color. tommorrow for a 10 day Horse ride near Leadville. Hoping my heart will hold up at that Elavation.

Hope everything is O.K. with you and yourins.
Love is expressed in many ways Nena, yours is the Best!!

Skeet

monoloco - 7-20-2010 at 03:58 PM

Or just read 1984 again.

toneart - 7-20-2010 at 04:13 PM

:spingrin:

My brain is addled. I am tired, and probably lazy. I'm about to pop a cork and capture the Zen in a cool bottle of Chardonnay. Then I will close my eyes and relish being in the Hear and Now. :yes:

Skeet/Loreto - 7-20-2010 at 04:18 PM

blame{\\I look at 911 and wonder about your comments;
I beleive that Radical Muslims will kill us in an
instant if given the chance; What do you beleive??

Health care Reform; I have Mediacare, Supplement and VA. I still pay 3 40 Dollars a moth for health Care.
Immigration: I beleive everone of the mesicanos coming over here to work and are working should be able to stay, that all the Criminal element and other folks who have sneeked in shourd be deported.
I beleive that anyone who will not respedct the United States of America should have the GUTS to leave and not come back.

Barry A. - 7-20-2010 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
blame{\\I look at 911 and wonder about your comments;
I beleive that Radical Muslims will kill us in an
instant if given the chance; What do you beleive??

Health care Reform; I have Mediacare, Supplement and VA. I still pay 3 40 Dollars a moth for health Care.
Immigration: I beleive everone of the mesicanos coming over here to work and are working should be able to stay, that all the Criminal element and other folks who have sneeked in shourd be deported.
I beleive that anyone who will not respedct the United States of America should have the GUTS to leave and not come back.

$340 a month for health care????? Skeet, I pay $620 a month for health care for me and my wife (and it does NOT cover prescriptions totally--only 80%,, nor does it cover vision and dentist). I am totally covered by Federal Govt. Group Health and Medicare, but that is what it costs me. You are very lucky, sir, if this covers both you and your wife ?!?!?!

Barry

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by Barry A.]

Pompano - 7-20-2010 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

quote]Originally posted by toneart
:spingrin:

My brain is addled. I am tired, and probably lazy. I'm about to pop a cork and capture the Zen in a cool bottle of Chardonnay. Then I will close my eyes and relish being in the Hear and Now. :yes:

Tony...put away that flute glass and get back to a goblet..fill it with this new favorite red we came across. Honest to Zeus, it's damn good.

It was recommended by an amigo I introduced you to at the steak barbeque, a grower who owns La Ventana vineyards. The cool thing is, it's not from his winery, but he's the expert and said] to try it..so we found some on our current Road Trip.

It's Little Red Truck..or just Red Truck if you can't get the Little. Either one is simply a great red wine for the price. About 9 bucks at Safeway in Half Moon Day a few days back.

This wonderful red table wine will mellow out all the Righties/Lefties/Fenceriders at the SKEET PARTY and soon everyone will be neekid on dem motorcycles!

mtgoat666 - 7-20-2010 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Health care Reform; I have Mediacare, Supplement and VA. I still pay 3 40 Dollars a moth for health Care.

sounds like you got good healthcare. what about all the uninsured who have pre-existing but are not elligible for medicare?
republicans tried to condemn the uninsured/uninsurable to purgatory and eventual bankruptcy, but democrats and obama are trying to fix the system! yes we can!
peace out!

[Edited on 7-20-2010 by mtgoat666]

Skeet/Loreto - 7-20-2010 at 05:07 PM

Pompamo:

Great Red Wine! Enjoy.

We now have a Winery in the Panhandle of Texas which is in the process of producing only Wines from Grapes grown in Texas. Will keep yo Notified when it is Ready.

That would be the GOP Catholics ?

MrBillM - 7-20-2010 at 05:08 PM

Are trying to condemn the uninsured to Purgatory ?

How would that work ?

On the Bright side, once you're in Purgatory, you're beyond worrying about Health-care.

AND, Eventual Bankruptcy.

Purgatory releases you from your financial obligations.

And, if you're good, you get to go to Heaven. Or, so they (the Papists) say.

[Edited on 7-23-2010 by MrBillM]

Barry A. - 7-20-2010 at 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Health care Reform; I have Mediacare, Supplement and VA. I still pay 3 40 Dollars a moth for health Care.

How we gonna pay for that "fix", Goat?----------seems nobody else in the world has figured THAT out yet. Let me know how that works out for you. (us)

Barry

monoloco - 7-20-2010 at 05:34 PM

Maybe we just need crappier health care, it seems like the problem is folks living too long.

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

$340 a month for health care????? Skeet, I pay $806 a month for health care (and it does NOT cover prescriptions totally) and I am totally covered by Federal Govt. Group Health and Medicare, but that is what it costs me. You are very lucky, sir!!!

Barry

Amen. I pay over $1,250 per month, and it does not include dental or vision.

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Health care Reform; I have Mediacare, Supplement and VA. I still pay 3 40 Dollars a moth for health Care.

Right On Brother!!! (Ooops, I guess I shoudln't have used the term 'Brother'!) And right on Obama!

Iflyfish - 7-20-2010 at 06:53 PM

Gnu,

I follow and agree with much of what you say. You are obviously well read.

Now where my train goes off the track is your fixation on the Masons. This sort of argument, reductio ad absurdum, unfortunately undermines the credibility of the person resorting to it.

Because Skeet is a Mason, or Mormon, or a Catholic, or a Jew, or owns US Bank Stock may not explain his way of seeing the world. It may simply be that Skeet, like many Texans, comes from a gestalt that produces the sort of thinking that he shares with us. Rugged individualism, exaggerated sexuality, homophobia, either/or thinking, rigid orthodoxy, religiosity are all hallmarks of the traditional Texas world view that encouraged rugged individualism and eschewed dependency of any kind. God, guns and womanizing are all part of that mythos. This world view is commonly found in Texas, their Governor has recently rattled the saber of succession from the Union. Theirs is the Lone Star State. Their pride of place is legendary. They still puff chest over the Alamo and believe that the mercenaries won.

Like Skeet’s latest post on Texas wine. I have tasted Texas wine and it is crap. But he touts it in the face of a very nice California red that another Nomad has discovered. There is a glut of grapes and wine on the market and some very great vineyards are bottling under these second and third labels to grab that $7 price point. It is a wonderful time to buy excellent wine at bargain prices and Skeet encourages us to wait for Texas swill. Have you tried the much touted, by Texans, Lone Star Beer? I went to Texas, I tried it and it too is crap beer. How could one drink that pi.. if one had access to Tecate, Pacifico, Modelo Negro, Noche Buena and the list goes on and on. Or how could one drink that if one has had ANY of Oregon's Microbrews.

Occam's razor would lead me to believe that Skeet is how he is because of how and where he was raised, not because he is a Mason. Skeet’s being a Texan explains way more than your complex theory about Free Masonry. My upbringing in California, working in factories, going to prep school, becoming a Conscientious Objector, working with the poor, have influenced who I am way more than my membership in any particular organization. I don’t discount the significance of the Masons in the history of the USofA, it has played a very significant role as has Puritanism, which you might have noticed is still very much alive and well. Your, in my view, excessive focus on the Masons leads me to believe that you have been watching too many Tom Hank's movies my friend. I’m with Tone and Pomp, let’s raise a glass and let this dead horse rest in peace. That is unless Skeet chooses to mount it again, and he may well do so.

Iflyfishwhilescratchingmyheadsometimes

Natalie Ann - 7-20-2010 at 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Oh! Nena: So good to see you Posting. Think that if Life had of been different, you and I would have a Grand Time of Life.

Would you wear that Grass Skirt that Pompano had On??

Wow!
Everything fine hear, off to Color. tommorrow for a 10 day Horse ride near Leadville. Hoping my heart will hold up at that Elavation.

Hope everything is O.K. with you and yourins.
Love is expressed in many ways Nena, yours is the Best!!

Skeet

Oh Skeet - You're going to Leadville?! Lucky lucky you! My very favorite Wallace Stegner book, Angle of Repose, takes place there. A girlfriend and I took a bit of a pilgrimage to Leadville. It was wonderful - lots to explore and just like the book.

Leadville is very high in the mountains, though... you please be careful with that heart, Skeet. I expect you to be surgeried, healed and dancing at your party.

nena

Iflyfish - 7-20-2010 at 07:00 PM

Yup Skeet, take care of the ticker, you are the designated kicker and we need you here a lot longer!

Iflyfish

toneart - 7-20-2010 at 07:02 PM

I'm on it, Pompano. I will give a report on Red Truck soon.

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
I think if you gotta get your panties in a bunch over something Skeet sez, then it's time to relax a bit more.... or learn to ignore posts. But then, like Dennis, I believe there's a certain amount of respect one should show to their elders.

Skeet ain't heavy -- he's my Brother. (My panties were in a bunch only to keep Skeet out of them; incest and all that.)

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by MsTerieus]

BajaGringo - 7-20-2010 at 08:43 PM

:lol:

gnukid - 7-20-2010 at 08:59 PM

Iflyfish

You have conflated several issues and then labeled me as the originator, while these are your words and a conflation of many ideas.

I accuse you also of knee jerk defense without regard to the offense.

You own your words.

It's very unfair of you to label me as contrary to all of Skeet or contrary to all Masons, because I pointed out he was being purposely misleading, confusing and distracting to the community in his rants. I am neither against Skeet or Masons overall. I care for and have compassion for Skeet and all the compatriots here on BN.

Your comments are very confusing and it surprises me that you would take this tact which is somehow to conflate that I am guilty or must prove what he or they are and what they are not or what Skeet meant, or by my association and communication with Skeet and Masonry and I must prove that Skeet is X because of Y.

Whereas the whole point of the discussion began because Skeet and some other famous Masons historically do mislead purposefully. In this case I said Skeet was misleading from your point about community efforts to document police abuse, and interestingly you accuse me in a very confusing and misleading message?

Masons can be many things to many people, apparently.

Here is a quote taken out of context from MORALS AND DOGMA OF THE ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED SCOTTISH RITE OF FREEMASONRY

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it." [Morals and Dogma, p. 104]

So it seems two issues are at hand that you want me to qualify together which I can not, one is Skeet and his reference to himself as a 32nd level Mason, and the other is the history of 32nd level Masons; do these two things affect Skeet's psychology [rants] significantly conditioning him versus his geographic/genetic background. Let me pull up my Nature vs. Nurture thesis paper, or on second thought let's not.

Masons are apparently a diverse umbrella, many levels and layers exist, many people within the same lodge have vastly different interpretations of what the symbols mean and how to proceed in life. The Lodges of USA versus GB are different etc... ad infinitum.

Here are Pikes words about Masonry:

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/apikeintro.html

Do your own research and make up your own mind and perhaps leave me out of your defense of Skeet's attack on you.

Consider our history

Who is Albert Pike? Who is Guiseppi Mazzini? Who is Cecil Rhodes?

Who are the Masons? What do Masons believe, what do they not believe?

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by gnukid]

wessongroup - 7-20-2010 at 10:07 PM

your bad... :lol:

Marc - 7-20-2010 at 10:42 PM

OK! So when and where is the party?

Iflyfish - 7-20-2010 at 11:01 PM

Gnukid,

"Masons are apparently a diverse umbrella, many levels and layers exist, many people within the same lodge have vastly different interpretations of what the symbols mean and how to proceed in life. The Lodges of USA versus GB are different etc... ad infinitum."

Yes, well said.

In my opinion people’s choice of their religion, fraternal associations and politics are based upon their sense of themselves and by their social conditioning.

My only issue with what you were saying is that it sounded to me like you were saying that the positions Skeet takes are a product of his association with the Masons. Maybe you are not saying that and I misread your posts. You may have been trying to make a different point i.e. that Masons are powerful and have influenced history and you don’t approve of how they have influenced history.

I usually agree with the thrust of what you are saying however in this instance it sounded to me like you were positing Masonry as the CAUSE or SOURCE of Skeet’s perspective.

I believe that Skeet, you and I are all powerfully influenced by our Psychology and that Psychology is primarily influenced by our developmental experiences. I believe for instance that you can find rigid, Authoritarian Characters on both ends of the political and religious continuums. It is the character that influences the politics and religion, not the other way around. The politics and religion reinforce the character structure adapted by each individual. We choose our politics and religions based upon our psychology.

I will go to Skeet's party if he is able to influence the police of CC to stop their criminal extortion of US citizens who drive though their town and are targeted by them. I choose to take this stand because this would satisfy my sense of justice and fairness that comes out of my Liberal view of the importance of Social Justice.

My Liberal perspective grows out of my personal psychology, one that led me to work in the field of human and social service rather than law or banking. I grew up a Socialist as a twin, sharing everything and seeing the benifit of that. What was in my brothers interest was also in the main also in my interest. I have experienced poverty on a personal level as well as in my work. I know that good people can be poor out of no fault of their own. I have seen Capitalism A Love Story and I believe he got it right.

As you too have experienced, levity is difficult in this medium, face to face conversation carries much more real communication. I hope this post clarifies my thinking.

Iflyfish

Skipjack Joe - 7-20-2010 at 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Gnu,

.....

Occam's razor would lead me to believe that Skeet is how he is because of how and where he was raised, not because he is a Mason. Skeet’s being a Texan explains way more than your complex theory about Free Masonry. My upbringing in California, working in factories, going to prep school, becoming a Conscientious Objector, working with the poor, have influenced who I am way more than my membership in any particular organization.

That covers you and Skeet. What can you tell us about gnukid?

MsTerieus - 7-20-2010 at 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
[What can you tell us about gnukid?

I think he is S C A R Y !

Skipjack Joe - 7-20-2010 at 11:30 PM

I meant his background.

Barbareno - 7-21-2010 at 05:46 AM

I am presently reading Lonesome Dove and I can see Skeet in there. Excellent book!

So what Flyfish said a couple posts back makes so much sense.

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 06:55 AM

Barbareno

We all live scripts. Starting with Family scripts, Cultural Scripts, Subcultural Scripts, Religious Scripts, Sex Role Scripts. These are the bones in our noses that are most difficult to see.

You are right on about Lonesome Dove. Never can tell what you will learn on Nomads.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barbareno
So what Flyfish said a couple posts back makes so much sense.

I think all of it's out of line. For people here to be flexing their cerebral muscles and using one of our contemporary citizens as a lab rat is tasteless showboating.

TMW - 7-21-2010 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Amen. I pay over $1,250 per month, and it does not include dental or vision.

I'm on SS and Medicare and pay $118 for supplemental Ins. and $37 for drugs per month. My wife is also on SS and Medicare (pre-65) and pays $136 for sup. and $37 for drugs. Thats $328 per month for both of us. The drugs have a co-pay that adds up to $200 per month total. That's $528 a month plus what ever the Medicare deduction from SS is.

Before I retired my medical insurance thru work was $118 per month for a PPO plan covering my wife and me.

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 08:24 AM

Dennis

"I think all of it's out of line. For people here to be flexing their cerebral muscles and using one of our contemporary citizens as a lab rat is tasteless showboating."

That is very well said. I appreciate good writing.

However this lab rat (your term) has been offering his analysis of other Nomads for a very long time, wouldn't you agree? I am simply more wordy than Skeet. I am in his view drug addled, pampered, Berkeley brainwashed, immoral, inexperienced, unlearned, self serving, wrong headed, uncaring, ethnocentric, etc. I could repeat the quotes, but you get the picture.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
However this lab rat (your term) has been offering his analysis of other Nomads for a very long time, wouldn't you agree?

Sure, I agree. How could I not. He tears me a new one every chance he gets.
Fact remains that when you and your trivial pursuit adversary climb out of yourselves and look around, you may consider the source. You guys arn't taking slide specimens from Einstien's brain, but you're opening up an unwitting, defensless old man to world wide scrutiny.
It just doesn't seem proper without the victim's permission and I doubt he's given that.

Tag team analysis

Dave - 7-21-2010 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
you're opening up an unwitting, defensless old man to world wide scrutiny.

I like it!

You and Fly should open a practice.

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 09:31 AM

" unwitting, defensless"

Neither term is analytical. Look'em up.

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
However this lab rat (your term) has been offering his analysis of other Nomads for a very long time, wouldn't you agree? I am simply more wordy than Skeet. I am in his view drug addled, pampered, Berkeley brainwashed, immoral, inexperienced, unlearned, self serving, wrong headed, uncaring, ethnocentric, etc. I could repeat the quotes, but you get the picture.

Ifly, you aren't the "lab rat" -- Skeet is. You are the investigator. Tell me, do you have any connection to Berkeley? (I think radicalism left Berkeley in the early '70s, in any case.)

[Edited on 7-22-2010 by MsTerieus]

Correct...

Dave - 7-21-2010 at 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
" unwitting, defensless"

Neither term is analytical. Look'em up.

But the assumption is. :rolleyes:

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 09:50 AM

Dennis,

I may keep this up just to read more of your writing. "Sure, I agree. How could I not. He tears me a new one every chance he gets.
Fact remains that when you and your trivial pursuit adversary climb out of yourselves and look around, you may consider the source." Now that is again well said.

Texans are proud to be Texans and most would prefer that to being Masons.

I would consider a stool next to you as Dave suggested.

Indeed I have connections in Berkeley, Baja, Texas, Maine, Amsterdam, British Columbia, Panama, Mainland Mexico etc. What is your point?

As to radicalism, it came to Washington with Ronald Reagan. See Capitalism, A Love Story for more details.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
" unwitting, defensless"

Neither term is analytical. Look'em up.

But the assumption is. :rolleyes:

My statement that he's unwitting:

Main Entry: un·wit·ting
Pronunciation: \-ˈwi-tiŋ\
Function: adjective
Date: before 12th century
1 : not knowing : unaware

Defensless:

de·fense·less (-lis)

adjective

lacking defense; unable to defend oneself; open to attack; helpless; unprotected

are far from assumptions. I don't need a PhD to see this nor do I need someone with same to corroborate my observation. Sometimes, I step out on a limb and figure things out for myself.

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Indeed I have connections in Berkeley, Baja, Texas, Maine, Amsterdam, British Columbia, Panama, Mainland Mexico etc. What is your point?

As to radicalism, it came to Washington with Ronald Reagan. See Capitalism, A Love Story for more details.

Iflyfish

Yikes, please don't snap. I just wondered if we might have lived there at the same time. My point about the radicalism was that Skeet's contentions or implied equations of Berkeley with (left-wing) radicalism are a bit dated ...

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 10:42 AM

CORRECTION:

Not that I think anybody is interested, but I must set the record straight. Back on page 6 of this thread, I put out some bum info that I have now corrected after some homework, and I have approprieately edited my original post----

The corrections are: Health Ins. (Medicare parts A & B, and retired Fed. Employee program, Blue Cross) costs me $620 a month for my wife and me, not the some $800 + that I stated, but my non-medicare ins. only covers 80% of prescriptions, and there is no dental or vision coverage.

My previous figure of $800+ a month for Health Ins. was calculated using my enhanced Medicare premiums for back in 2007 when my income was significantly higher than in 2008 due to the dismal Stock Market returns (heavy losses) in that year. Those that make more than a certain amount of income pay significantly more for their Medicare than most-----a fact seldom (if ever?) mentioned in arguements.

I am sure that all this is fascinating--------and your welcome. :lol:

Barry

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2010 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Those that make more than a certain amount of income pay significantly more for their Medicare than most

as it should be

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Those that make more than a certain amount of income pay significantly more for their Medicare than most

as it should be

no argument from me on that one, Goat------I just wish it was mentioned in the back and forth arguements.

Barry

gnukid - 7-21-2010 at 11:05 AM

In an odd turn of events, Skeet has left the building and can be credited for starting a fire of a chat about something we all face, ethics, morals, dogma, and how this affects our behavior in the face of a threat of criminal activity.

Now, however, it isn't personal, it isn't about Skeet or anyone per se, so perhaps for a moment we can consider a hypothetical scenario and leave out personal attributions.

In this scenario, lets say there are two families, the Fords and the Chevys. One family, let's call them the Fords has an oath to support and act to protect any other Ford family member regardless of the circumstance, criminal, murder, adultery etc... one among the Ford family, a policeman is broadly alleged to have used his position illegally to extort many members of another family well call the Chevys. The Chevys felling threatened begin to organize, they document the evidence, gather witnesses, put out the call and many other city members, 2000 in fact, come out to support the Chevys outcry against the Ford family members extortion and abuse of authority.

Members of the Ford family rush to support their family member- the accused policeman extortionist, they use many tools of defense, in particular one well known to their family called misdirection.

Question: is it immoral for the Fords to use any and all techniques at any cost to the Chevys to defend their family members from not only prosecution of the criminal extortion but to loss of income from the practice of extortion.

Question 2: is it immoral for the Chevys to call out not only the extortionist but also the Fords for being immoral.

Who is right?

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 11:10 AM

In my mind, the Fords are wrong, and the Chevy's are correct, in this particular senario---------criminal or unethical behavior is always to be punished----NEVER supported by ANYBODY.

Is that the 'rigid' answer you were looking for?? :spingrin:

Barry

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by Barry A.]

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Dennis

"I think all of it's out of line. For people here to be flexing their cerebral muscles and using one of our contemporary citizens as a lab rat is tasteless showboating."

That is very well said. I appreciate good writing.

However this lab rat (your term) has been offering his analysis of other Nomads for a very long time, wouldn't you agree? I am simply more wordy than Skeet. I am in his view drug addled, pampered, Berkeley brainwashed, immoral, inexperienced, unlearned, self serving, wrong headed, uncaring, ethnocentric, etc. I could repeat the quotes, but you get the picture.

Iflyfish

Wow, we are really close ... only problem.. only visited Berkeley back in 1967 ... we had just gotten married .. and were in a VW bus.. :lol:

what a trip that was.. .ended up in Fern Canyon up above Eureka .. was nice a nice time.. at least we thought so.. and thanks for the memories .... hope the Elk are still there...

and of course its off topic.. what else would you expect from me

gnukid - 7-21-2010 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
In my mind, the Fords are wrong, and the Chevy's are correct, in this particular senario---------criminal or unethical behavior is always to be punished----NEVER supported by ANYBODY.

Is that the 'riggid' answer you were looking for?? :spingrin:

Barry

Barry, at what point does ones oath to family end? What if you made an oath that you would defend your family and if not they would kill you? Would you protect yourself and support the alleged criminal for self preservation? Would you put your life at risk and estrangement from family for a stranger? Where as you had everything to lose and almost nothing to gain...

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Barry

I would never make such an "oath" (foolish business), but I support my family completely as long as they remain legal and ethical. Any 'family' that would require such an 'oath' is way beyond anything that I could support or protect. I would never be put in that position. Yes, I would support the stranger, and get out of Dodge if any family member put me in that position. Integrity is MUCH more important than any 'family' connection.

Thank Gawd that my family has NEVER been one that require such decisions. But I have made it very clear that I require the other family members to remain ethical, legal, and mutually respectful or else they must except the consequences. My family, especially the kids and grandkids, know exactly where I stand--------I can accept mistakes, but I expect articulated reasons why they happened, but NOT any illegal or unethical behavior.

If behavior occurs outside those parameters, they can expect me to to still love them, but they must except the legal consequences (if any).

Is this a test?? What happens if I fail?? Oh dear--------

Barry

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2010 at 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

henry ford vs louis chevrolet blah, blah, blah

Who is right?

i am. i always am.

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 11:45 AM

Think it just comes down to which side of the track you were born on... always has and always will ... don't agree with the situation, just that it is what it is... at this time.. How could they be worse off... they could have be born in Mumbai, India.. there ... one can go no "where", north to China, don't think so, east, nope, south nope, west no way again .... you are really stuck..

So maybe as bad as it is for the Mexican people, they at least have some "hope" for escape from abject poverty with no chance of work which they face...

They have a "hard row to hoe".... as do a lot of folks all over the world..

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 11:58 AM

gnukid,

You have presented what in my opinion is the essential dillema for many people in regard to the not so hypothetical extortion that you mention. It is a rock and a hard place for sure, for all involved. In this case I fear that "might makes right" and morality is a mute point. When faced with a the barrel of a gun it is amazing what people are willing to do!

This by the way, has turned out to be a rather nice party. I think I will fill my glass.

Iflyfish

Please!

toneart - 7-21-2010 at 12:04 PM

I can't stand it anymore. Chronic offenders please study this and take the test:

Your indicates possession. Is this your pencil?
You’re is the contraction of you are. You’re writing with a pencil.

1. Which one is ________ brother?
2. ________ the funniest person I’ve ever met!
3. I got home late last night and the first thing I heard was, “________ grounded!”
4. What is ________ name?
5. You can have all the cake you want, it’s ________ party.
6. Call me when ________ home safely.
7. ________ the tallest person in the room
8. I love ________ long hair.
9. The race is over and ________ the fastest.
10. ________ parked in the wrong spot; ________ car will get towed away.
11. If ________ still working on ________ project, raise your hand.
12. Our team looks good but ________ looks better.
13. Is that my watch that ________ wearing or is it ________?
14. My parents are friends with ________ parents.

Answers

1. Which one is your brother?
2. You’re the funniest person I’ve ever met!
3. I got home late last night and the first thing I heard was, “You’re grounded!”
4. What is your name?
5. You can have all the cake you want, it’s your party.
6. Call me when you’re home safely.
7. You’re the tallest person in the room
8. I love your long hair.
9. The race is over and you’re the fastest.
10. You’re parked in the wrong spot; your car will get towed away.
11. If you’re still working on your project, raise your hand.
12. Our team looks good but yours looks better.
13. Is that my watch that you’re wearing or is it yours?
14. My parents are friends with your parents.

vandenberg - 7-21-2010 at 12:14 PM

Tony,
Your so right. :biggrin:

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Think it just comes down to which side of the track you were born on... always has and always will ... don't agree with the situation, just that it is what it is... at this time.. How could they be worse off... they could have be born in Mumbai, India.. there ... one can go no "where", north to China, don't think so, east, nope, south nope, west no way again .... you are really stuck..

So maybe as bad as it is for the Mexican people, they at least have some "hope" for escape from abject poverty with no chance of work which they face...

They have a "hard row to hoe".... as do a lot of folks all over the world..

not sure where you are going with this one---------in THIS country (the USA) I believe the "track" is a state-of-mind, and little more. I have seen so many walk back and forth across it-----that is part of what Freedom is all about. In other Countries, not so much, or non-existant, but I have little or no control over that.

I have little symphathy for those normally intelligent folks in THIS Country that 'choose' to remain on one side of the track or other, and then b-tch about it--------every normally intelligent person knows how to cross the track, whether they admit it or not--------the tools are published everywhere----on TV, on Radio, discussed among friends, etc. etc... If you want to 'cross', just do it. Admittedly harder for some, than others, but still always doable!!! Many simply don't really WANT to cross the tracks, for whatever reason. That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down. I see no other reasonable way to do it. Trying to address the specific reasons why people do what they do is useless, and impossible, IMO. Each individual has their reasons, that may be known only to themselves, or to no-one, and different. I can't be spinning my wheels on these problems------it is not within my ability. These types of personal problems are solvable only by individuals taking the intiative to solve them themselves, and just deal with them.

Perhaps I have missed your point, Wesson. (??)

Barry

toneart - 7-21-2010 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Tony,
Your so right. :biggrin:

I also possess a so left. :spingrin:

Sheese! Your welcome (is wearing thin). :lol:

Edited to offer excuse:
Sorry for the hijack. When the conversation gets boring I allow my inner bored child out. He has the attention span of a two year old. :yawn:

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by toneart]

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2010 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down.

Spoken like a true elite.

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 12:34 PM

Tony---------

that TOTALLY went over my head------what's your point with that one??? :tumble:

Barry

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down.

Spoken like a true elite.

An "elite" what? I certainly don't feel superior to ANYONE--------I just calls them as I see them--------and unlike you (?) I may be wrong.

Tony, I had not seen your second post-----now I understand--------your just bored! at our wonderful and insightful posts :light:

Barry

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 12:42 PM

Barry, just that some in life have certain breaks that shape their lives.. some are able due to any number of things, over come... some can not.. overcome those negative influence and/or their station in life as we are not all born equal.. we may be all humans.. but, to suggest that ALL have the same chance is not really a true picture in my book..

I got lucky, that is the way I look at it.. I'm lucky I did not turn out an ax murder... just got some breaks, which were just dumb luck that's all... it could have gone a whole different way.. a number of times.. it was just luck.. that I did not get into a car that ended up being run over by an 18 wheeler a few hours later.. many others.. in my life which, by just choosing a different "door" would have altered my life totally..

Some folks get stuck in a mess, none of which was there making, and they cannot escape.. if you think not.. then we really are worlds apart..

I glad you had a great career and have been successful, and took advantage of the opportunities which you found, I find no fault with that at all, God Bless ... however, it just doesn't always work out that way for ALL

Should they all be punished ? If it all doesn't work for them.. after they get a bad break in life for what ever reason

In a perfect world I would agree .. but, we really don't live in a perfect world do we ...

Bajatripper - 7-21-2010 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down.

Barry

Actually, I think the Constitution addresses that very point, doesn't it? Something about the people having the right to revolt in order to overthrow an unjust government. Or no?

mtgoat666 - 7-21-2010 at 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper

Quote:

That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down.

Barry

Actually, I think the Constitution addresses that very point, doesn't it? Something about the people having the right to revolt in order to overthrow an unjust government. Or no?

hence, the 2nd amendment. barry must be part of the king george contingent

Family...What family?

Dave - 7-21-2010 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
One family, let's call them the Fords has an oath to support and act to protect any other Ford family member regardless of the circumstance, criminal, murder, adultery etc... one among the Ford family, a policeman is broadly alleged to have used his position illegally to extort many members of another family

The Constitucion police aren't Skeet's family.

In Skeet's warped world, we, as foreigners have no right to demand ethical behavior from any Mexican authority. Moreover, he has stated that criminal behavior is part and parcel of the Mexican culture and should be accepted.

If he's speaking for any of his Mexican family I'd like them to stand up and be counted. :rolleyes:

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
I can't stand it anymore. Chronic offenders please study this and take the test:

Toneart, While I appreciate (and share) your concerns, there are SO MANY grammatical and spelling errors on this forum that I do not know where to begin to correct them. So, for the most part, I try to overlook them. I usually try to think of "your", when used improperly, as simply an abbreviation, of sorts. :light:

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
That is not my responsibility until they revolt, and then they must be put down.

Spoken like a true elite.

Or a Libertarian or Republican, in any case...

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Barry, just that some in life have certain breaks that shape their lives.. some are able due to any number of things, over come... some can not.. overcome those negative influence and/or their station in life as we are not all born equal.. we may be all humans.. but, to suggest that ALL have the same chance is not really a true picture in my book..

I got lucky, that is the way I look at it.. I'm lucky I did not turn out an ax murder... just got some breaks, which were just dumb luck that's all... it could have gone a whole different way.. a number of times.. it was just luck.. that I did not get into a car that ended up being run over by an 18 wheeler a few hours later.. many others.. in my life which, by just choosing a different "door" would have altered my life totally..

Some folks get stuck in a mess, none of which was there making, and they cannot escape.. if you think not.. then we really are worlds apart..

I glad you had a great career and have been successful, and took advantage of the opportunities which you found, I find no fault with that at all, God Bless ... however, it just doesn't always work out that way for ALL

Should they all be punished ? If it all doesn't work for them.. after they get a bad break in life for what ever reason

In a perfect world I would agree .. but, we really don't live in a perfect world do we ...

Good post, Wiley! In addition to the lucky breaks to which you refer, I suspect you are Caucasian. IMO, most in the US who are not have an even more difficult time of it.

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 01:27 PM

Wesson-------It's the "worlds apart" that worries me. I am not a big proponent of "luck"-----which probably partially explains why I can walk thru Casinos and never gamble----it just does not interest me at all. I like the Casinos, just not the gambling. Casinos are rather exciting, and you meet some really interesting people, and I have occasionally put my nickle in-------I have never won ANYTHING, that I can remember.

Most of what has happened in my life I planned, and worked for, and watched for opportunities, and tried my best to recognize them, and take advantage of them, but also tried to never take advantage of them at somebody else's direct expense. When I look back I am amazed at how well all that turned out, so I am a true believer in self- motivation. I tried to instill that enthic in my kids (4) and it seems to have worked out for them, also. "Luck" is out there, I am sure, but I NEVER take it for granted, and have absolutely no understanding of it, but yes, I have been lucky, many times, I am sure.

Daily life in this Country is sooooo full of opportunities----they are everywhere--------at least I believe they are.

It's like the Stock Market--------I believe in the Market--------and it always rewards me long term, as the stats reveal for ANYONE to look at. 3 generations of my family have used the Stock Market to produce most of their income--------what an incredible opportunity and I saw that way back when I was about 15, or so. The Stock Market is the barometer of this Country, and increasingly the World. When and if the Market fails, the world of man will fail also, IMO, and THAT is much more important to man than possible Global Warming, and such, which we have little or no control over. I do not worry (much) about things I cannot control, but I do try to behave responsibly-----that is only common sense, it seems to me. I save energy, don't consume 'stuff' too much, and pick up litter------always-------thats my contribution and what I can control. My kids do the same, some more than others. :yes:

I never had a dad (killed when I was 1), not close to my Mom, seldom saw my Grandparents, and always depended on me to solve problems--------I had little choice, in my mind, and that was ok. I waited until my kids were successful before really stepping in and helping them------and they all knew that was what I would do------rewards are for those who help themselves, in my book.

I am very happy with my life, and my family's life.

So yes, maybe we are "worlds apart" but I certainly hope not. That would be counter-productive, it seems to me. I don't expect everybody to see the world as I do, but I do expect each and every normal person to help themselves--------or at least try. Is that too much to expect?

I became a Ranger because it was obviously so much fun, and drifted into Law Enforcement because it was exciting, and I was pretty good at it---for 30 years a great life!!

(but I am having more fun retired) :biggrin:

Viva Baja

Barry

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 01:29 PM

If a misspelled word upstaged the essential nature of my shared thought, I would review the thought.....not the spelling.

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
If a misspelled word upstaged the essential nature of my shared thought, I would review the thought.....not the spelling.

Outstandingly put, Dennis, as usual!!!! (is that a word? 'outstandingly')

Barry

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 02:18 PM

When I said world apart.. only on the one issue.. think overall we see it the same way.. you have to grab an oar and start pulling.. and just can't get ahold of an oar and pull with everyone else

It just that some, be they of what ever color do not have the same reference point when they start..

I had a father (passed on) and mother (still living at 90) but was brought up under the old rules, beat the hell out of them.. that was the way they were brought up.. so having parents can sometimes positive and sometimes negative..

Today, both of my parents would be in jail for child abuse.. but, in those years 40's and 50's when growing up... it was SOP.. no one thought about you getting "beat" by your parents.. had my nose broke, arm and a fractured knee cap.. from a fire place poker..

We all have different lives.. some come along easily, others like my self.. it was not easy... I made it .. but it was luck or perhaps God, or the Great Sprit in the Sky.. or what ever that I made it through, not ending up like my friends, dead from drug overdoses, killed in gang fights. or in robberies, doing 20 to life for drug smuggling, or what ever .. I don't really know ....

Just know that I'm not all that smart.. so it has to be something else..

And yes I'm Caucasian, and part American Indian.. my son is part of what ever I am and his mother who is Mexican and 1/4 Apache ... the point on MsTerieus

But, I find what the lady that started all this rucks with the USDA was more to the point.. poor is poor.. has nothing to do with color... at all... and when one is really poor.. most can't really understand how difficult it really is for them to get up and get going.. just can't.. just like a man can't really understand what having a baby is like.. I took Lamaze classes only to be told to get out of the way, and "this is your fault" :lol:

I live life, day by day and I'm thankful to be able to do just that.. along with being down here in Baja, a place I'm been coming to since around 10..

It's all good.. and I fully understand your position.. I just have this empathy for the underdog.. if you haven't noticed...

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by wessongroup]

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
(is that a word? 'outstandingly')

Barry

It is now. :biggrin:

Thanks, Barry.

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
If a misspelled word upstaged the essential nature of my shared thought, I would review the thought.....not the spelling.

I would not know if you misspelled it... so it is safe with me... as I only try to get the thought trying to be made..

If spelling and grammar are going to be applied.... hell, I SOL :lol:

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 02:25 PM

Barry,

"I never had a dad (killed when I was 1), not close to my Mom, seldom saw my Grandparents, and always depended on me to solve problems--------I had little choice, in my mind, and that was ok. I waited until my kids were successful before really stepping in and helping them------and they all knew that was what I would do------rewards are for those who help themselves, in my book."

You made a very good decision as a child to be self sufficient, good call. It also helps to be white, smart and have opportunity for education and models of success. I too made that decision and it has served me well.

There is also another realities that we live with. What if you were born ugly, very short, with a visable deformity, transgendered, with Autism, some form of Learning Disability? You must understand from your extensive experience in Criminal Justice that the deck is stacked in favor of white males who are tall and have symetrical bone structure and a good tailor.

Most seem to have skipped school the day they tought about the Great Depression where there simply was no work. Didn't matter a whit about ones character strengths, there was NO WORK. There are economic factors that affect us all and generate class differnces, you and I don't have the surname DuPont. It helps if you are named Trump. (Talk about family scripting?!).

I would invite you and other Nomads to watch Michael Moores film Capitalism, A Love Affair. I know, he is fat, depressed, depressing, a poor dresser etc. Those all have to do with how he looks. Check out the movie and see what some us are talking about when addressing this issue. If you think that the table is level, your head is at an angle.

I don't mean your head, particularly, the comment is metaphorical.

I too read for the meaning, don't have a good built in spell or grammer checker.

Iflyfish

norte - 7-21-2010 at 02:28 PM

Ifly

They are going to kick/peck you right out of the coup!

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 02:35 PM

Will do.. have not seen it..

Just brought it up on Netflix here in El Pescador.. using hot spot shield.. yeah I know .. it's got this and that.. but, one can watch movies ... even on my slow dsl from telnor.. lowest speed ever recorded 30.1 kbs :lol:

[Edited on 7-21-2010 by wessongroup]

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Ifly

They are going to kick/peck you right out of the coup!

Yep....He's gonna get a Coop De Grâce. :biggrin:

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 02:44 PM

wessongroup

It is not the circumstances that make us, it is what we decide about those circumstances and ourselves that makes the difference.

I appreciate what you are saying and think you are right on. The deck is stacked and those who figure out how to count cards and reshuffle make it. Them that decide they can't or are cought in a cross fire don't.

I think that this gets to the nub of a whole lot of how we become different from each other and take the positions, religions, associations that we do. These have to do with how we learned to adapt to our enviornment.

I once saw a 11-12 year old drug runner in East Oakland. I happened to be parked in his neighborhood. He was a black kid from the gheto and no doubt he was running for the dealer, who I figured was within view of this kid.

I watched this kid handle hundreds of dollars. I thought long and hard about this. I wondered how in heck this kid would ever make it in school. How would he deal with his "rube" friends who got minimum wage at Mickey D? How would the influence of this sort of money affect him. What would he decide about himself and his place in the world. What would his career aspirations be. I watched him take in more than I made in a week. How would this affect his work ethic? How long would he live? What would be "up" for him?

I have decided that context is important to all of us. Even as a Conscientious Objector I know that I can kill. The issue is the context. What is the context that I would be in that would have me do that? I am a peaceful man, but given the right context I could kill. We all could kill, the context is what is important. So we are not just the little box that sits behind our eyes. We are part of and influenced powerfully by our context. I am married, that is part of my identity. That is a part of me. I would not choose to have an affair, because my marriage is part of me. When I was a single man, I did not have such reservations. Context is very important and often over looked as it relates to motivation.

Mrsfish just had a successful surgery, not to worry, she is fine, I am "looking after her" so I have time on my hands, a laptop and a great group of people to share thoughts and experiences with. If I were working now I would not be engaged in this dialogue. Again, context is important.

Care for another?

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-21-2010 at 02:49 PM

Jeeeezo...Are you guys taking those "Chicago Turn-Around" capsules? I've never seen such a bunch of mile-long posts.

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 02:49 PM

I would rather it was a Coup de Ville!

Iflyfishwithasperationsforacoupdevillethatrunsonelectric

Natalie Ann - 7-21-2010 at 03:01 PM

Wishing a speedy recovery to Mrsfish.

nena

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Now, however, it isn't personal, it isn't about Skeet or anyone per se...."

Gnukid – you have me all confused again! I could have sworn you previously said, or strongly implied, that I and Skeet (and maybe Barry) were members of the Brotherhood and/or the Masons. Then later, you seemed to change your story. To be sure I was remembering correctly, I went back to re-read your posts on the subject. However, I found that the relevant posts had Vanished. POOF! Fortunately, I was able to retrieve some of what you had posted. Maybe it will refresh your recollection so that you can answer the questions I pose at the end of this post.

QUOTE:

She [Msterieus] is an imposter in many ways, she led her conversations in a clearly convoluted manner toward a desired outcome which promotes the current meme, fear, lack of compassion for others, lack of belief that people are all powerful to solve their problems created by those who are corrupt in power on their own and do not require a police state or militarized cities. You can say people are free to say what they will, and they are, I am simply calling out the poster as an imposter, not being sincere.

She displayed no true love or compassion for people and especially for Baja. That's why she is an imposter on Baja Nomad. There are endless clues.

These games, which are heavily programmed, staged, with collusion, these people are not necessarily evil, they believe they are good or maybe not, some believe they are evil, some do not know what they do, but they are committed at all costs, they have simply been programmed to respond this way and react and are encouraged to do so by their controllers. You ask who are their controllers, well find out for yourself. it's well documented in history books, in the encyclopedia, this is required reading for citizenship in life. It is well documented and well understood, for those who open their eyes. They say it and repeat the phrases and memes constantly. …

I have pointed out their phrases, they point of their phrases often in capitals, their references to the words of Freemasonry, the works of Albert Pike, the will of Cecil Rhodes and the diverse and complex social programming behind these extremely well funded exercises in social manipulation of North America, and the world, it's up to you to do your research and see that not all people are well intended, many are not, for the benefit of all, nor kind, nor caring and it is only because they belong to an broad based religion or anti-religion sometimes called FreeMasonry which is imploding as planned for a new order.

The current meme is to promote fear, in order to promote their execution of their agenda. It's important to be realistic, and to see the broad based programming as a manipulation which is heavily programmed through an indoctrination in various forms and levels of contradictory, chaotic and confusing messaging. But you can see and understand if you simply do a little research into the history of NorthAmerica and England etc... We didn't arrive in the position we are in today out of the blue. It is an agenda which is published and communicated and promoted with funding from your own pocket.

I like Baja.

I am not really at all interested in the nonsense promoted by these incarnations of programed characters to promote their agenda, however it is offensive, it is obvious, well documented, it is a significant part of our North American history, it affects us at every juncture and it is painfully obvious and also sad. I truly feel for them and have compassion and I think we all should try to help them to see the truth and the light, that sharing, caring compassion and love and giving is rewarding and that luciferianism is not. First perhaps you might want to find out what is luciferianism.

I have at times documented their phrases, the odd chaotic, purposefully confusing and distracting phrasing, the timing, the persistence, the Brotherhood, the support of each coded message irregardless, the lack of compassion for others and celebration of the memes of Masonry, but really its should be obvious to the reader that you are being bombarded by programming from specific posters with a common pattern and approach, communications with a clear agenda and its not a good one to our mutual benefit.

Gosh oh golly even the Washington Post had an alarming article stating something quite similar, yesterday, however it wasn't as much an alarm but instead a celebration of the intelligence apparatus run amok, communications specialists, nearly 1:10 people in the USA or more run amock in a chaotic jumble toward the agenda.

So it's okay to be pollyanna or say gosh oh golly no, skeet and msterierus etc... are really nice people who just have a way, but the evidence is clearly otherwise, the agenda of the programmed FreeMasonic empire is not a good one for ours or their mutual benefit. … [Emphasis added.]

QUOTE:

In the old days, books such as Dantes Inferno or the play Faustus and the stories of character Mephistopheles were required reading and taught people to recognize these memes.

There is a reason Skeet and others repeat the phrase The Brotherhood and also offend women. There is also a reason for his promotion of Sex as an agenda, to do so is the eighth level of Mason enlightenment. [Emphasis added.]

QUOTE:

[To Barry]: Yeah well it's great the support you give to Skeet as part of the Brotherhood! And that you would sit at his table! … Also I like how you guys really are so proud of each other. [Emphasis added.]

Now here are my questions: Did you or did you not mean to say or imply that:

1) I am a member of the Masons or the Brotherhood?
2) 2) Skeet is a member of the Masons or the Brotherhood?
3) Barry is a member of the Masons or the Brotherhood?

Barry A. - 7-21-2010 at 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry,

You made a very good decision as a child to be self sufficient, good call. It also helps to be white, smart and have opportunity for education and models of success. I too made that decision and it has served me well.

There is also another realities that we live with. What if you were born ugly, very short, with a visable deformity, transgendered, with Autism, some form of Learning Disability? You must understand from your extensive experience in Criminal Justice that the deck is stacked in favor of white males who are tall and have symetrical bone structure and a good tailor.

Most seem to have skipped school the day they tought about the Great Depression where there simply was no work. Didn't matter a whit about ones character strengths, there was NO WORK. There are economic factors that affect us all and generate class differnces, you and I don't have the surname DuPont. It helps if you are named Trump. (Talk about family scripting?!).

I would invite you and other Nomads to watch Michael Moores film Capitalism, A Love Affair. I know, he is fat, depressed, depressing, a poor dresser etc. Those all have to do with how he looks. Check out the movie and see what some us are talking about when addressing this issue. If you think that the table is level, your head is at an angle.

I don't mean your head, particularly, the comment is metaphorical.

I too read for the meaning, don't have a good built in spell or grammer checker.

Iflyfish

Fish--------I have long admired your insight and intellect, and ability to convey points----you are a huge asset to this Board. I am honored that you responded to a post of mine.

Your point on the disabled-------little (or none) of what I said applies to the disabled------they are in a class of their own, and need all the help they can get-----and many are an inspiration to the rest of us.

My Mom, my 3 uncles, my Grand Parents, my aunt, all went thru the depression, all worked, and all survived by hook or crook. There stories were an inspiration to me-------it was a very difficult time, for almost all, but it was the depression that gave my grandfather the opportunity to invest, and invest he did.. He was a disabled vet, a US Naval Academy grad, and medically retired at 43 as a Lt. Cmdr. and most of his pension went into the Market with good results-----he never had a "job" after that-------that began our family involvement in the Market, and all of us have been investors ever since, and his modest gains was the seed money.

I have always deeply admired the Trumps, and other big name families, I actually knew some of them as acquaintenances--------but not all of them were totally honorable-----that is a given-------there is ALWAYS some bad with the good, or at least almost always. I just take it in stride, and do not dwell on it, as there is no good in that, but I pay attention to what they say and do.

Most of my family members are strick Republicans-------and living in tiny Coronado, a Navy town, I was surrounded by Republicans for the first 30 years of life. My Granddad bought into Coronado in the early 30's when it cost relatively nothing, later my Mom in l938 using the life insurance from my Dad's death ($10K)----that 10K bought 3 houses----we lived off the rent from two of them, and my Mom taught school and we lived in the third house. The opportunity there was obvious. We had almost nothing, but were surrounded by wealth after the war------and I was impressed, and not the least intimidated------most of the wealthy folks there were outstanding people, and treated us as if we were one of them. I never forgot that. Many are still my friends.

Michael Moore's general attitude is so foreign to me that I am not sure I could stomach one of his productions--------I tried once and ended up walking out after about 15 mins. His interviews disturb me greatly------to me he simply does not get it----what this Country is all about------or that is his schitk-----I was never sure. But what is worse is his hostility and sarcasm-------I have no use for that. He is obviously a smart fellow, but to me that does not excuse his twisted ideas and rancor---------he simply 'does not compute', in my mind. Even the 'truths' that he presents are so isolated, so exagerated, and the exception to the general rule, that I find him horribly mis-leading. So I probably won't be watching his productions any time soon---------but I do listen to the PBS, both radio and on TV, so I am not hopelessly in the tank for the right, and occasionally I even listen and watch MSNBC. And I am sure that my head is at an angle, probably partially put that way from my unique experiences and exposures. :lol:

Again, thanks for your response------I truly appreciate that. I always read your posts with interest, and am seldom let down. There are many others on this board that I feel the same about. This is a great board, which proves that those who love Baja are really smart people (with a few possible exceptions). :yes:

Barry

Iflyfish - 7-21-2010 at 04:22 PM

Thanks Barry and Nena.

Very interesting people at this party, got to love the Nomads. You should hear some of Nena's great Mexican music!!

I am reminded of the time when Martin Scorcese's film The Last Temptation of Christ came out. Scorsese was a Jesuit, deep thinker. He agreed to join the studio and direct films for them if they would bankroll a film for him, one that he well knew would never be a box office success. That film is The Last Temptation of Christ. It is a remarkable film in that it is informed by his extensive study of the bible and Christian history. The guy did his homework.

Now the deal is that if you study Christian Theology you have to deal with the issue that Jesus was supposedly both God and Man. In traditional Christianity i.e. Catholic theology it was essential that Jesus, the Christ, be both God and Man in order for his sacrifice, the crucifixion and resurrection, to have any real value. If he was to die for the sins of man, he needed to be a man. I am not interested in a theological debate on this issue, I am simply presenting Scorcese’s context.

Scorcese’s film focuses very much on the struggle that Jesus had with his divine as well as human nature. The opening scene has him building crosses and struggling with himself over making crosses that the Romans use to crucify Jews, Jesus was of course a Jew. His buddy Judas comes by and chastises him for making these abominable crosses. Jesus says in effect “I don’t know Judas, I hate this, I just have this horrible thing about crosses”. Now I found this perspective very illuminating and there are many such scenes in this film.

It was interesting to me watching David Frost interview a panel of clergy on this film. The entire group pontificated about the evil of this film till they hit the Episcopalian Priest who said in effect “I am curious, it seems like you all watched a different movie, I wonder if those of you who have seen the film would raise your hands”. Silence, very uncomfortable silence and no hands go up. At that point the other clergy bloviated more on how they would never condone such a film by even seeing it etc.

What I hear most from people who have not seen this film is an ad hominum attack on Michael Moore. He is fat, pushy, wears bad clothing, is sarcastic etc. These are comments about Michael Moore, not about his movies. I would encourage you to see this film as it presents an excellent context for this discussion of the playing field for labor in this country. He looks closely at the time when we grew up, a very prosperous time in America. We had the heart of the water melon, and it was good, very good. The fact that we grew up in relative prosperity has influenced us all and it is hard to see the larger forces at work that are affecting us now. Many did indeed find ways to profit during the Great Depression, that however not the story for most folks, it was the exception and not the rule. Yes the stock market has come back, not to the level it was, but has regained some of its momentum. However it is also important to understand that the Stock Market is very good to the top 1% of this country who now hold over 90% of our wealth.

I would encourage you to see the movie and then let’s discuss the ramifications of what he is saying with this remarkable film.

Iflyfish

MsTerieus - 7-21-2010 at 06:23 PM

I enjoyed your post re the movies, Iflyfish. I will plan to see M. Moore's movie. I have seen his other movies, and I found them interesting and amusing, no doubt, in part, because I tend to agree with his views 100%. That said, I also get pretty annoyed with his movies, because, IMO, the facts are really slanted in favor of the points he wishes to make.

wessongroup - 7-21-2010 at 06:39 PM

"It is not the circumstances that make us, it is what we decide about those circumstances and ourselves that makes the difference."

That was what I was trying to say, about picking a "door".. at that particular instant, when these guys wanted me to get into their car and drive to Mannheim at 2:20 am after drinking all night ... I chose NOT to go.. for some reason.. I wasn't afraid of anything at that time in my life, was still able to walk and talk.. .. but, I just for some reason said, no... two guys were killed in a head on with a large truck, they were in a VW..

Our Commanding officer... made all of us at the site "look at the pictures" of the wreck and the two bodies that were left after the accident.. did it make a difference in my drinking and driving .... no... that did not come until a California Highway Patrol stop on the way back from a Christmas eve party 27 years later .. the officer let me go... and I had been definitely drinking and should not have been driving..... never drank and drove again... figured someone again was looking out for me.. should have gotten a DUI, jail and insurance rates and all the rest... but, again.... I was lucky.. or the woman officer felt sorry for me.. or ....

Just finished watching the Michael Moore film Capitalism: A love story

Must agree with your take on the movie ... and its overall thrust ..

It's a long way from the late 1940s and the 1950s to where we are today and to say how we do business and what type of Government we have....... wow

Some, of course will argue about this and that.. but the overall story of the working man, cannot be dismissed... (and when I say man I of course include the working woman) as both are the corner stone of this Nation in my view..

The numbers are not wrong, and the "bail out" of the "Financial Industry" is beyond any doubt the biggest scandal in history..

I only wish we could get our money back.. I'm still with Icelanders on this one.. the Banks are "private" business's ... if they loose.. then let them fail, they lost... and if we lent them money, where is my check.. rather than where is my taxes... yeah, I known ..... the check is in the mail...

If one thinks it was not a rip off, then why was the language contain in the document (Bill) specifically worded in a fashion that there would be no redress NONE in any court of Law...

It's a pathetic statement about our elected? officials and their picks for appointments to offices of total power over the very industry they come from .... and it ain't helping the "people" of United States of America... IMO

You know like the Constitution says : "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

And sorry, I don't think one has to be an attorney to understand what they were talking about .... in the statement of purpose

Sorry, best to mrs. fish

[Edited on 7-22-2010 by wessongroup]

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