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'Double Wall Barrier' talk - Will GOP immigration rhetoric cost Latino votes?

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Iflyfish - 10-23-2011 at 04:11 PM

MrBillM

We are in agreement here for sure. Escalating expectations have played a significant role in the problems we are facing. These escalating expectations include our belief after WWII that we were invincable and could solve world problems with force i.e. Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan. They also include the escalated expectations of Wall Street traders, bankers and the Corporate elite that they deserved a larger piece of the pie. Ditto for the belief that a college education equaled success. Ditto for the notion that everyone could own a home and that serial refinancing was a panacea for all individual economic problems. Again we agree.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 10-23-2011 at 04:13 PM

I am nursing a cold and this has been a very interesting discussion and good way to use the healing time. Thanks to my Nomad friends for engaging in this interesting dialogue.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 10-23-2011 at 04:16 PM

Cypress

"Iflyfish, All those communist(collectivist systems) you mention? They've failed. I agree. Your point?"

Then we can agree that the current Corporatist system is also failing and that adjustments need to be made.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 10-23-2011 at 04:39 PM

Barry

I am sorry, now I understand the problem. For the definitions of Logical Fallacies go to the site http://www.skeptically.org/logicalthreads/id12.html and you will find them below the list. The links on my post do not take you to these definitions but to a definition of Athiesm. Sorry for the confusion.

Iflyfish

A Momentary Digression for Must-See TV

MrBillM - 10-23-2011 at 04:54 PM

Having just run across this on the Dish Guide, I don't want anyone who might be interested to miss out.

Although I initially thought it might be referencing the NY occupation, the numbers were a bit too high.

Tonight, 6 p.m. Current TV.

"The World's Toilet Crisis".

A documentary on the 2.6 Billion World residents who don't have toilets (or Home Depot obviously).

Even assuming that some would share, there is a sales-opportunity there that could end the Jobs crisis.

I'm setting the DVR.

OK, Back to the other stuff now.

Cypress - 10-23-2011 at 05:30 PM

Iflyfish, No. I do not agree that the current system is failing. The intervention(adjustments as you call it) of the Obama administration into the free market has created an unnatural situation. Picking and choosing which company to support at tax payers expense isn't free interprise, it's socialism and cronyism. I condemn the whole concept and the gang that's responsible for it.

obscene

mtgoat666 - 10-23-2011 at 05:41 PM

Found on AFL-CIO’s Executive Paywatch.


mtgoat666 - 10-23-2011 at 05:43 PM

wonder who your congressman thinks about??




UnoMas - 10-23-2011 at 05:56 PM

I think the two major political parties in this country have us doing just what they want, debating(putting in nicely) issues among ourselves which takes our eye off the ball of what really is going on with these low life bottom feeding, lying, good for nothing, cheating, self serving b*st*rds! JMO:lol::lol::lol::biggrin:

Barry A. - 10-23-2011 at 06:01 PM

Goat------------I can guarantee you that a lot more than "1%" of the American population are "millionairs"---------think about it!!!

Homes owned, investments, IRA's, motorhomes, cars, and just stuff adds up to well over a million for many when considering "net worth".

-------but I get your point.

Barry

Barry A. - 10-23-2011 at 07:13 PM

How many "workers" could manage and run an S&P 500 corporation?

They left out the Hollywood crowd, and the sports stars ---------

In a free Country, you get what you're considered you are worth by those that pay you------duh

Way to much obsessing over all this---------

Barry

Strength in Numbers ?

MrBillM - 10-23-2011 at 08:44 PM

Well, they "could" hire 750 Minimum-Wage CEOs and take a vote on decisions.

If enough Monkeys with Typewriters could produce a Literary masterpiece after enough time, I'm sure they'd come up with something at IBM, etc eventually.

Wouldn't they ?

I'd hate to be in that Boardroom.

BTW, that Gore-TV "Toilet Crisis" was a LOT of Scheisse.

And, I only watched the first 5 Minutes. Saved it on DVD for another time. Maybe while having Breakfast. If I can stomach Obi in the a.m., I should be able to handle that.

I did learn you need to watch where you step in India. And, that was in the City. Probably the same around Wall Street right now.

This should surprise a lot of Conservatives...

Ken Cooke - 10-23-2011 at 09:09 PM

Article: Medical help for illegal immigrants could haunt Mitt Romney

link: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-romney-healthcare-201110...

Barry A. - 10-23-2011 at 09:57 PM

Ken---------that link takes you to the LA TIMES, but not to that particular article you reference. I could not find it.

Barry

Roberto - 10-23-2011 at 10:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
What is wrong with loaning Chrysler and GM money? They paid the money back, didn't they? :light:


No.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/business/02gret.html

http://radioviceonline.com/gm-repays-loan-to-us-actually-not...

http://www.edmondsun.com/business/x563631288/Don-t-believe-t...

Not to mention that the U.S. Government still holds significant "equity" in GM, which is currently underwater. For the government to break even, the stock price needs to go up to $53, and the current value is about $24. This is an old article outlining the loss, but the price they quote is old - $30.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/govt-looking-to-sell-its-gm-...

Roberto - 10-23-2011 at 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Rick Perry is going to be the nest president of this Country and you had better beleive it!


Everyone around the world that wants the US to tank is betting he or another republican wins. I on the other hand would like to see the US back on its feet, and thus the last thing you need is another republican dumb burro in the white house.


So Obama is a finacial and political genius, huh? Oh lord, help us!!!


He didn't create the mess, thats for sure.


He just made it a lot worse.

Barry A. - 10-23-2011 at 10:04 PM

OK, Ken, you have to search a little, but I did find it.

Interesting. Mitt is a moderate, so this does not surprise me that much, but yes, it might hurt him with the radical-right. I hope not, tho.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 10-24-2011 at 01:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Mitt is a moderate, so this does not surprise me that much, but yes, it might hurt him with the radical-right.




you mean this radical right??




Barry A. - 10-24-2011 at 08:29 AM

No, Goat-----------I don't even understand the point of that cartoon--------marijuana and the Tea Party?????? Don't get the implied connection???????

More smoke where there is no fire.

Barry

NO Surprises

MrBillM - 10-24-2011 at 10:07 AM

Conservatives KNOW what Mitt is and, unlike those who haven't been paying attention, they're not about to be surprised by old news already out there.

Whether his "Last Man Standing" strategy is going to prevail, Quien Sabe ?

It IS on-track exactly where its been all along. He has a solid 25 percent (+/-) as the FIRST choice along with around 35 (+/-) percent as the SECOND choice. His plan is to be the guy settled on. Should that work, he's cleared the only BIG hurdle. Making it through the Primary cycle. In the general, Conservatives won't stay home and they won't vote for Obama.

But, we'll know at the end of January.

Barry A. - 10-24-2011 at 02:23 PM

Very good thumbnail analysis, Mr. Bill. You are right on!!!!

Barry

Dave - 10-24-2011 at 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Should that work, he's cleared the only BIG hurdle. Making it through the Primary cycle. In the general, Conservatives won't stay home and they won't vote for Obama.


A "Saint" as President? I don't believe it.

Barry A. - 10-24-2011 at 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Should that work, he's cleared the only BIG hurdle. Making it through the Primary cycle. In the general, Conservatives won't stay home and they won't vote for Obama.


A "Saint" as President? I don't believe it.


A "saint"???? Now THAT'S a new twist-----------a vivid imagination at work!!!! :lol:

Barry

That's A .........

MrBillM - 10-24-2011 at 03:08 PM

Latter-Day Saint.

Actually, although there are those Evangelicals who say they'll never vote for a Mormon, I'm not that sure they'd stay home.

AND, IF the Primary voters can be convinced, the General actually looks pretty decent. Independents don't consider it a problem and a high percentage of Evangelicals say they would still vote for him as the nominee.

BUT, the primary cycle will tell the tale.

mtgoat666 - 10-24-2011 at 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Latter-Day Saint.

Actually, although there are those Evangelicals who say they'll never vote for a Mormon, I'm not that sure they'd stay home.

AND, IF the Primary voters can be convinced, the General actually looks pretty decent. Independents don't consider it a problem and a high percentage of Evangelicals say they would still vote for him as the nominee.

BUT, the primary cycle will tell the tale.


lots of dumb, lazy voters may vote your way...



mtgoat666 - 10-24-2011 at 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Conservatives KNOW what Mitt is and, unlike those who haven't been paying attention, they're not about to be surprised by old news already out there.

Whether his "Last Man Standing" strategy is going to prevail, Quien Sabe ?

It IS on-track exactly where its been all along. He has a solid 25 percent (+/-) as the FIRST choice along with around 35 (+/-) percent as the SECOND choice. His plan is to be the guy settled on. Should that work, he's cleared the only BIG hurdle. Making it through the Primary cycle. In the general, Conservatives won't stay home and they won't vote for Obama.

But, we'll know at the end of January.




Skeet/Loreto - 10-24-2011 at 04:05 PM

Another reason Obama will be outed is that he approved and sent 527 Million Dollars to Finland to build a Car!!!!!

JESSE - 10-24-2011 at 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Bush never blamed Clinton for anything...


Well yeah! he was too busy spending all the money Clinton left :lol:

Kids! Not CEOs!

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 05:45 AM

http://youtu.be/qU4nmDTZUtU

[Edited on 10-25-2011 by mtgoat666]

Ken Cooke - 10-25-2011 at 05:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Bush never blamed Clinton for anything...


Well yeah! he was too busy spending all the money Clinton left :lol:


I agree with that one!

Cypress - 10-25-2011 at 06:00 AM

Obama has morphed into a "One Trick Poney". Blame Bush is the standard answer, heck the US of A might as well have a talking parrot for prez.:lol:

TMW - 10-25-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Obama has morphed into a "One Trick Poney". Blame Bush is the standard answer, heck the US of A might as well have a talking parrot for prez.:lol:


I thought that's what we have.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-25-2011 at 10:19 AM

Well, at least we now have proof that he really is American...



JoeJustJoe - 10-25-2011 at 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Bush never blamed Clinton for anything...


Well yeah! he was too busy spending all the money Clinton left :lol:


I agree with that one!


It was the Republican congress (Newt) that stopped the liberal spending... Congress controls the money... Clinton was politically forced to accept the people's will... and he then took credit for the budget and got re-elected! LOL Obama didn't learn from the past... he also lost the congress at his mid-term to the people (who sent him a message by putting in a Republican majority).

Wow, and in Bush's 2nd. term mid-term congress election, he lost congress beacause the Republicans were spending like democrats (non of us conservatives liked that, or Bush not veto'ing their spending)... The people sent a message and voted the Republicans out. The last two years of Bush were in a democrat controlled congress, who made things worse... and Bush gets the blame for their financial blunders (Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, et al)!!! Congress Controls the Budget!


God you right-wingers are sure funny.:lol:

Clinton was a fantastic President and things were great when Clinton was President, and one of the reasons why Bush couldn't blame Bush for anything.

Newt was forced out by his own party after getting defeated by Clinton at every turn. The last I remember Newt was crying because Clinton snubbed him during a flight and made him sit in the back of the plane.

Newt is a loser, and in 2012 he is bringing up the rear as a 2012 GOP President candidate.

If Newt is so great why is he trailing stupid candidates like Cain, and Bachmann?

David K - 10-25-2011 at 11:24 AM

Because people (like you) believe the lies spread by the liberal media! :lol:

lies and the lying liars who tell them

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Because people (like you) believe the lies spread by the liberal media! :lol:


i do get tired of you dinosaurs that attack the messenger because you don't like the message. no one except the lobotomized GOP faithful believes your media-bias spin to deny your bad behavior and explain your bad press. the truth is you behave badly, and media reports your badness.

Cypress - 10-25-2011 at 02:02 PM

Dan Rather and CBS had a message. Oops! It was proven to consist of phoney documents and fabricated "facts". More and more people are beginning to see through the 24/7 media falsehoods. What they fail to report can be more important than what they report. Their agenda has become all too obvious.

Speaking of Lies .............

MrBillM - 10-25-2011 at 02:48 PM

Joe has a message or two.

Biden, that is, not Salman.

And, in the VP's world, that message is whatever comes to mind regardless of facts.

At least back in the days when he was Plagiarizing, he was more accurate.

David K - 10-25-2011 at 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Joe has a message or two.

Biden, that is, not Salman.

And, in the VP's world, that message is whatever comes to mind regardless of facts.

At least back in the days when he was Plagiarizing, he was more accurate.


Yah, times were better back in the days when Al Gore invented the Internet... before he invented man-made global warming... oh wait, he changed that name to 'climate change':lol: Because we were cooling after it was revealed his seminar graph was backwards!! :lol:

Yah, beacons of truth these dems are!:light:

Barry A. - 10-25-2011 at 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Yah, beacons of truth these dems are!:light:


---------and what is worse, they actually BELIEVE all this stuff their mentors spout, despite the proven spinning and out of context quotes.

It IS discouraging, and possibly a disease!?!?!?!?

Barry

Skeet/Loreto - 10-25-2011 at 04:16 PM

Yes it is a Disease!!

It is the Disease of "No Morals, No Honor, No Respect, No Common Sense of Decency!!

Oh! for the Good ole Days of Honesty, Truth, Respect, Dignity, Kindness,.

We must Hope and yes pray a lot that this next Young Generation will grow up and realize just how much harm their Parents are doing to them.


Just how stupie they are__--- Someone Nuts are making a big Issue out of Texas People wanting to and being able to put the Confererete Flag on their Vehicle License Plate.
It is None of their Business!!!!!

Oh ! Well Someday they will get their Due.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-25-2011 at 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes it is a Disease!!

It is the Disease of "No Morals, No Honor, No Respect, No Common Sense of Decency!!

Oh! for the Good ole Days of Honesty, Truth, Respect, Dignity, Kindness,.

We must Hope and yes pray a lot that this next Young Generation will grow up and realize just how much harm their Parents are doing to them.


Just how stupie they are__--- Someone Nuts are making a big Issue out of Texas People wanting to and being able to put the Confererete Flag on their Vehicle License Plate.
It is None of their Business!!!!!

Oh ! Well Someday they will get their Due.


So "spot" on, skeet. Somewhere along the way something went horribly wrong with this country. Even this uneducated mind can see that this country is being destroyed by the lefties/liberals and the A.C.L.Jew.

Barry A. - 10-25-2011 at 04:45 PM

Skeet----------there is hope------------I have 4 kids-------oldest is a CPA, and teacher on the side at a Christian School-----next oldest is an Attorney (not practicing anymore) and now a Procurement officer for the Piaute Tribe in Bishop------next oldest is a "stay-at-home-dad" with two young kids while Mom (a school teacher) brings home the bacon---------and the youngest is a Director with United Health Care. We had no real problems with any of them.

I think they are all Republican's ( one I am suspicious of, but he is secret about it)

So there is 'hope' for some of them kids out there. :biggrin:

(Yes, I am proud of them) :yes:

Barry

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes it is a Disease!!

It is the Disease of "No Morals, No Honor, No Respect, No Common Sense of Decency!!

Oh! for the Good ole Days of Honesty, Truth, Respect, Dignity, Kindness,.

We must Hope and yes pray a lot that this next Young Generation will grow up and realize just how much harm their Parents are doing to them.


Just how stupie they are__--- Someone Nuts are making a big Issue out of Texas People wanting to and being able to put the Confererete Flag on their Vehicle License Plate.
It is None of their Business!!!!!

Oh ! Well Someday they will get their Due.


So "spot" on, skeet. Somewhere along the way something went horribly wrong with this country. Even this uneducated mind can see that this country is being destroyed by the lefties/liberals and the A.C.L.Jew.


so, we got skeet, who is an avowed racist and thinks the state of TX should be in business of putting symbols of slavery on license plates,...
and we got sanquintinsince73, an antisemite who thinks ACLU is a jewish consiracy,...
and barry who thinks they are all right in his book;...

hard to stomach nomads that sit by and allow such hate to fill nomadlandia

Ken Cooke - 10-25-2011 at 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
so, we got skeet, who is an avowed racist and thinks the state of TX should be in business of putting symbols of slavery on license plates,...


I personally hate the Confederate flag. Yes, hate IS a strong word! :yes:

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 05:26 PM


mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 05:27 PM


THIS IS GREAT!!

Ken Cooke - 10-25-2011 at 05:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666


I love the symbolism, here!:lol:

Barry A. - 10-25-2011 at 05:50 PM

goat---------it ain't HATE.

I do not like HATE, and never condone it. I was offended (dismayed a better word) by the reference to "Jews" in several previous posts-------people that HATE are radicals, in my book, and I normally don't even comment on such obviously crazy statements. In my book, Skeet, et all are not HATERS or racists, from what I can tell--------just very upset at what is going on, as I am, and are not taking the PC route to cover up what is obvious to everyone.

Ken------------the world to this day suffers from slave traffic--------it must be stopped, and many are working on that as we write------it is a huge problem. But the Confederate Flag is NOT a symbol of slavery, no matter how you choose to interpret it, it's not. It was the flag of a near-Nation that was very proud of it's heritage, had many things going for it, but did embrace slavery at the time when it was generally excepted--------we know better now, and the South does too. Get over it!!!! You can (I guess?) HATE what happened 150 plus years ago, but what good does it do to HATE all that the flag represents now? Do you HATE the African Nations that still are trafficing in slaves??? or Asia where it is still common??? Maybe so, but I think it is a waste of time and energy to be even thinking about something that is now ancient history in the USA, unless your agenda is to keep that memory alive and festering here. I say condemn what happened back then and keep that history alive, but don't condemn the symbol of a proud part of the Nation and the people of the South today. I simply don't understand that.

Yes, racism exists, and it always will, but it is not prevalent, and it is felt only by radicals that can't, or won't, think straight. I condemn it when it flares up in my presence, but I am not on a crusade as that does more harm than good, IMO.. I try to conduct my life in a good way, but keep out of others business unless it interferes substantially with mine. I wish the Govt. would do the same.

Barry

Barry A. - 10-25-2011 at 05:54 PM

On the cartoons-------------and the "symbolism is what"????????????

Some are calling for public defunding the PBS because it often represents a point of view that does not represent all tax payers---------why should the public support something that they don't necessarily agree with?? Makes no sense!!!

I personally listen to PBS, and send in my check every year, but I don't think it should be supported with "public money".

Something wrong with that???

Barry

Cypress - 10-25-2011 at 07:00 PM

Heck, you might as well hate cotton. Or sugar. Those crops required a labor force that produced the demand for slaves.

mtgoat666 - 10-25-2011 at 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
But the Confederate Flag is NOT a symbol of slavery, no matter how you choose to interpret it, it's not.


people interpret things differently. it IS

Barry A. - 10-25-2011 at 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
But the Confederate Flag is NOT a symbol of slavery, no matter how you choose to interpret it, it's not.


people interpret things differently. it IS


Yes, if that is the way you want to interpret it---------you can make something out of nothing, too, if you so choose. I repeat---to what end???

Barry

Iflyfish - 10-25-2011 at 10:30 PM

I have stopped posting on this thread. My cold is over and I am now out and about. It is however interesting to me that this thread has devolved into a discussion of Racism. The original topic, as I recall, was about Illegal Immigration and whether or not the current focus on this by the Republicans was likely to dissuade Hispanic voters from voting Republican. Do these dots connect?

Is it conceivable that Hispanics might believe that this focus has racist motivation by people on the right wing of the Republican Party?? Sounds like this could not be the case because Racism does not exist on the right wing of the Republican Party if I get the drift of the recent posts. Nope, no racism involved in the Civil War, that was about lowering taxes and deregulating Corporations as I recall my history
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history...

There has been no history of racism toward Mexicans
http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/mexico/mexican-amer...

How could anyone see America as racist?? We did after all make slaveholding illegal, gave the Native perfectly good land to live on and helped them march to reach that land http://www.cherokee-nc.com/index.php?page=62

and apologized to the Japanese Americans we interred during WWII
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jun/13/local/me-59411

and apologized for the Tuskegee syphilis study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

and there is certainly no structural racism in America, everyone has the same chance as you do!
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/26-2

and America has never engaged in wholesale slaughter of people of other races
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP13.HTM

and Republican candidates are very supportive of plight of minorities
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/herman-cain-racism_...

and Republicans would never engage in blatant racism against minorities like Hispanics
http://moleprogressive.blogspot.com/2008/09/blatant-republic...
http://www.entertainedorganizer.com/2011/10/republican-racis...

How could Mexican Americans feel that they are being discriminated against by God fearing, flag waving, proud American Republicans? Impossible.


Iflyfish

sanquintinsince73 - 10-25-2011 at 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes it is a Disease!!

It is the Disease of "No Morals, No Honor, No Respect, No Common Sense of Decency!!

Oh! for the Good ole Days of Honesty, Truth, Respect, Dignity, Kindness,.

We must Hope and yes pray a lot that this next Young Generation will grow up and realize just how much harm their Parents are doing to them.


Just how stupie they are__--- Someone Nuts are making a big Issue out of Texas People wanting to and being able to put the Confererete Flag on their Vehicle License Plate.
It is None of their Business!!!!!

Oh ! Well Someday they will get their Due.


So "spot" on, skeet. Somewhere along the way something went horribly wrong with this country. Even this uneducated mind can see that this country is being destroyed by the lefties/liberals and the A.C.L.Jew.


so, we got skeet, who is an avowed racist and thinks the state of TX should be in business of putting symbols of slavery on license plates,...
and we got sanquintinsince73, an antisemite who thinks ACLU is a jewish consiracy,...
and barry who thinks they are all right in his book;...

hard to stomach nomads that sit by and allow such hate to fill nomadlandia


Not a anti-Semite, I believe that we should defend Israel at all cost. It is the American Jews and their anti-Christian agenda that I have a problem with. Read on:

ACLU TOP HEAVY WITH JEWS



Most thinking people know that the American Civil Liberties Union is vehemently anti-Christian. What they don't know is that 3 of 6 of ACLU's top national leaders are liberal Jewish activists.

Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual, second in command is Nadine Strossen, Jewish. She was given the "Woman of Distinction" award from the Women's League of Conservative Judaism and the "Women who Dared" award from the National Council of Jewish Women. A member of the Council on Foreign Relations, she is married to Eli M. Noam, professor and founding director of Columbia University's Institute for Tele-Information.

Third in command at ACLU is legal counsel Steven Shapiro. As the legal mastermind of ACLU, he may well wield greatest power. Shapiro commands an army of 90 fulltime lawyers, maintaining an active docket of cases harassing the public expression of Christian values across America.

Geri E. Rozanski, director of affiliate support, is also a Jewish activist. Before joining ACLU, she was director for the large field operation of the American Jewish Committee.

Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.

Jews behind "Civil Liberties" Fronts

Jews comprise only 2.5 percent of the American population, yet most of the largest anti-Christian "civil liberties" organizations are disproportionately staffed by them:

B'nai B'rith International, initiator of hate crimes laws in Canada, Europe, and Australia is 100 percent Jewish. The same is true of its civil liberties pit bull, ADL.

People for the American Way, founded and directed by left-wing Jewish TV producer Norman Lear, contains a disproportionate number of Jews in its top leadership. Three of eight have Jewish names. Carol Blum is executive vice president and chief operating officer. Elliot Mincberg is senior vice president, general counsel, and legal director. Sharon Lettman is vice president of external affairs and director of national programs and outreach.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, chief antagonist to public display of Judge Roy Moore's 10 Commandments, is even more predominantly Jewish. Its three top leaders are Jews. President and CEO is J. Richard Cohen. Founder and chief trial counsel is Morris Dees. Founder and president emeritus is Joseph J. Levin Jr.

ACLU: Distraction from Real Enemy

For the past 40 years, the evangelical right has found the ACLU the perfect villain for a simple reason: Since it is not perceived as Jewish, they can criticize it without danger of being labeled "anti-Semitic."

The ACLU performs a very devious and useful role as part of the overall conspiracy of Jewish activism against Christianity: It distracts Christians and conservatives from a much greater threat, ADL. The ACLU makes itself conspicuously outrageous, as threatening to Christian values and symbols as can be imagined. This entirely preoccupies the attention of the religious right. As a result, ADL/B'nai B'rith over the last 40 years has been free to develop and put in place their Orwellian "anti-hate laws" throughout the western hemisphere.

Milestones of such erosion of Christian freedom include:

1. Passage of ADL's Hate Crimes Statistics Act of 1990. This gave ADL complete control in America of hate crimes education and enforcement for police, FBI, and the US Justice Department.
2. Passage of ADL hate laws in 46 US states during the past two decades.
3. Creation of thought crimes bureaucracies, outlawing public criticism of homosexuality and Judaism in Canada, Europe, and Australia/New Zealand.
4. Creation of an "Office of Global Anti-Semitism" in the US State Department, making Christians into anti-Semites. (See, "U.S. State Department Says New Testament is 'Anti-Semitic'?")
5. Creation of a vast 55-nation anti-hate bureaucracy in Europe, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. OSCE vows to outlaw "cyberhate," ending free speech and free talk radio on the internet. (See, "Global Hate Crimes Gestapo Being Created")

Failure of Perception and Strategy

Yes, ACLU is busy defending pornographers and litigating against crosses, 10 Commandments in public, and nativity scenes at Christmastime. But in a far more threatening way, taking advantage of the distraction provided by ACLU, ADL has been massively destroying freedom of speech in most of the western industrialized world. To this moment, it has done so unidentified and virtually unresisted by the leaders of Christendom and the new right.

As long as Christian leaders lay blame upon secular humanism, the New World Order, liberalism, or the ACLU and remain afraid to identify the real culprit, liberal Jewish activism, all these Jewish-dominated "civil liberties groups" will continue to harass and enfeeble the church.

With Christian activism so misdirected, Jewish activism, much more focused and relentless, will continue to prevail.

paranewbi - 10-26-2011 at 05:36 AM

Oh man...I really need to stop going right to 'Todays Posts' for expediancy. Way to early in the morning to stumble on this crap. There's some things I really don't need to know about a person I might come across one day next to a camp fire in a beautiful setting in Baja. The anonimity is concerning. Some of you guys are really frightening!

mtgoat666 - 10-26-2011 at 06:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes it is a Disease!!

It is the Disease of "No Morals, No Honor, No Respect, No Common Sense of Decency!!

Oh! for the Good ole Days of Honesty, Truth, Respect, Dignity, Kindness,.

We must Hope and yes pray a lot that this next Young Generation will grow up and realize just how much harm their Parents are doing to them.


Just how stupie they are__--- Someone Nuts are making a big Issue out of Texas People wanting to and being able to put the Confererete Flag on their Vehicle License Plate.
It is None of their Business!!!!!

Oh ! Well Someday they will get their Due.


So "spot" on, skeet. Somewhere along the way something went horribly wrong with this country. Even this uneducated mind can see that this country is being destroyed by the lefties/liberals and the A.C.L.Jew.


so, we got skeet, who is an avowed racist and thinks the state of TX should be in business of putting symbols of slavery on license plates,...
and we got sanquintinsince73, an antisemite who thinks ACLU is a jewish consiracy,...
and barry who thinks they are all right in his book;...

hard to stomach nomads that sit by and allow such hate to fill nomadlandia


Not a anti-Semite, I believe that we should defend Israel at all cost. It is the American Jews and their anti-Christian agenda that I have a problem with. Read on:

ACLU TOP HEAVY WITH JEWS



Most thinking people know that the American Civil Liberties Union is vehemently anti-Christian. What they don't know is that 3 of 6 of ACLU's top national leaders are liberal Jewish activists.

Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual, second in command is Nadine Strossen, Jewish. She was given the "Woman of Distinction" award from the Women's League of Conservative Judaism and the "Women who Dared" award from the National Council of Jewish Women. A member of the Council on Foreign Relations, she is married to Eli M. Noam, professor and founding director of Columbia University's Institute for Tele-Information.

Third in command at ACLU is legal counsel Steven Shapiro. As the legal mastermind of ACLU, he may well wield greatest power. Shapiro commands an army of 90 fulltime lawyers, maintaining an active docket of cases harassing the public expression of Christian values across America.

Geri E. Rozanski, director of affiliate support, is also a Jewish activist. Before joining ACLU, she was director for the large field operation of the American Jewish Committee.

Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.

Jews behind "Civil Liberties" Fronts

Jews comprise only 2.5 percent of the American population, yet most of the largest anti-Christian "civil liberties" organizations are disproportionately staffed by them:

B'nai B'rith International, initiator of hate crimes laws in Canada, Europe, and Australia is 100 percent Jewish. The same is true of its civil liberties pit bull, ADL.

People for the American Way, founded and directed by left-wing Jewish TV producer Norman Lear, contains a disproportionate number of Jews in its top leadership. Three of eight have Jewish names. Carol Blum is executive vice president and chief operating officer. Elliot Mincberg is senior vice president, general counsel, and legal director. Sharon Lettman is vice president of external affairs and director of national programs and outreach.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, chief antagonist to public display of Judge Roy Moore's 10 Commandments, is even more predominantly Jewish. Its three top leaders are Jews. President and CEO is J. Richard Cohen. Founder and chief trial counsel is Morris Dees. Founder and president emeritus is Joseph J. Levin Jr.

ACLU: Distraction from Real Enemy

For the past 40 years, the evangelical right has found the ACLU the perfect villain for a simple reason: Since it is not perceived as Jewish, they can criticize it without danger of being labeled "anti-Semitic."

The ACLU performs a very devious and useful role as part of the overall conspiracy of Jewish activism against Christianity: It distracts Christians and conservatives from a much greater threat, ADL. The ACLU makes itself conspicuously outrageous, as threatening to Christian values and symbols as can be imagined. This entirely preoccupies the attention of the religious right. As a result, ADL/B'nai B'rith over the last 40 years has been free to develop and put in place their Orwellian "anti-hate laws" throughout the western hemisphere.

Milestones of such erosion of Christian freedom include:

1. Passage of ADL's Hate Crimes Statistics Act of 1990. This gave ADL complete control in America of hate crimes education and enforcement for police, FBI, and the US Justice Department.
2. Passage of ADL hate laws in 46 US states during the past two decades.
3. Creation of thought crimes bureaucracies, outlawing public criticism of homosexuality and Judaism in Canada, Europe, and Australia/New Zealand.
4. Creation of an "Office of Global Anti-Semitism" in the US State Department, making Christians into anti-Semites. (See, "U.S. State Department Says New Testament is 'Anti-Semitic'?")
5. Creation of a vast 55-nation anti-hate bureaucracy in Europe, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. OSCE vows to outlaw "cyberhate," ending free speech and free talk radio on the internet. (See, "Global Hate Crimes Gestapo Being Created")

Failure of Perception and Strategy

Yes, ACLU is busy defending pornographers and litigating against crosses, 10 Commandments in public, and nativity scenes at Christmastime. But in a far more threatening way, taking advantage of the distraction provided by ACLU, ADL has been massively destroying freedom of speech in most of the western industrialized world. To this moment, it has done so unidentified and virtually unresisted by the leaders of Christendom and the new right.

As long as Christian leaders lay blame upon secular humanism, the New World Order, liberalism, or the ACLU and remain afraid to identify the real culprit, liberal Jewish activism, all these Jewish-dominated "civil liberties groups" will continue to harass and enfeeble the church.

With Christian activism so misdirected, Jewish activism, much more focused and relentless, will continue to prevail.



OMG!

:?:

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 08:12 AM

Hey, no racism here. Why would Mexicans not vote Republican?

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

This sentence uses race (Hispanic) and sexual orientation (homosexual) to begin it's rant against the ACLU. So from this writers perspective both Hispanic and Homosexual people are bad.

I can't see why Hispanics would not vote Republican and see their anti-immigration actions as racist. Can you?

Thanks for clarifying this sanquintinsince73

Iflyfish

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 08:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Hey, no racism here. Why would Mexicans not vote Republican?

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

This sentence uses race (Hispanic) and sexual orientation (homosexual) to begin it's rant against the ACLU. So from this writers perspective both Hispanic and Homosexual people are bad.

I can't see why Hispanics would not vote Republican and see their anti-immigration actions as racist. Can you?

Thanks for clarifying this sanquintinsince73

Iflyfish


Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.

I think that this is what the article was trying to convey.

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 08:22 AM

sanquintinsince73

Gee, guess I read it wrong.

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.

Iflyfish

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73

Gee, guess I read it wrong.

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.

Iflyfish

By golly you're right!! I in no way perceived this as racist.

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73

Gee, guess I read it wrong.

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.

Iflyfish


They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist. I have not seen anybody say that there is no racism within the Republican Party----that would be rediculous-------of course there is racism, as there is racism everywhere. But it is NOT the driving factor, or any factor at all, in any of the Republican platforms and positions----only the fringe on both sides would think that it was, it seems to me.

Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.

Barry

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73

Gee, guess I read it wrong.

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.

Iflyfish


They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist. I have not seen anybody say that there is no racism within the Republican Party----that would be rediculous-------of course there is racism, as there is racism everywhere. But it is NOT the driving factor, or any factor at all, in any of the Republican platforms and positions----only the fringe on both sides would think that it was, it seems to me.

Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.

Barry

Exactly Barry. Now someone here accused me of being anti-Semite. I went to a 99.9% Jewish school in the valley and I still communicate with my buddies via facebook. Thank God I haven't mentioned that I despise Kimchi or I'd have the Korean contingent on my arse.

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 09:02 AM

sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

Barry A
"Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word."

You of course are absolutely right. There is no racism in the above statement. I guess I am just too sensitive. I very much doubt that any Hispanic would read this as racist.

You would have to look very long and hard to find any Republican who would sound racist to a Hispanic. Just doesn't happen.

Iflyfish

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

Barry A
"Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word."

You of course are absolutely right. There is no racism in the above statement. I guess I am just too sensitive. I very much doubt that any Hispanic would read this as racist.

You would have to look very long and hard to find any Republican who would sound racist to a Hispanic. Just doesn't happen.

Iflyfish


The bottom line is that Hispanics (last time I checked I was one, but I am American first) perceive Republicans as racist because we want a secure border, and we do not believe in awarding a person American citizenship for being in this country illegally. Mr. Iflyfish, don't come to me with "you're a racist", I know racism. This former Marine has been called a beaner, illegal, wetb*ck, you name it. I come from a long line of battle hardened patriots. I can't stand that piece of work in the oval office but I am careful not to mention that to much because that makes me a racist.

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by sanquintinsince73]

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 09:25 AM

sanquintinsince73

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

"Mr. Iflyfish, don't come to me with "you're a racist", I know racism. This former Marine has been called a beaner, illegal, wetb*ck, you name it."

I never called you a racist. No one could ever mistake you for one. I am glad that Mexicans no longer experience racism or see it in the Republican Party. I have owned that I am probably way too senstitve and can't imagine a Mexican seeing racism in the quote above or in the Republican focus on Illegal Immigration, which is what this thread is about.

It is clear from the posts above that racism is no longer a problem in the USofA. I am very relieved to hear this. By the way, I am of Iclandic heritage so I too know what being a minority is all about.

Iflyfish

rts551 - 10-26-2011 at 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.

They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist.

Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.

Barry


:?::?::?::?:

Most

MrBillM - 10-26-2011 at 09:48 AM

Would not want a Homosexual "in their face" given their personal habits.

Speaking of which; my wife, who is usually very tolerant with her opinions, was watching one of those "Celebrity" shows and came in to say "You know, Sonny Bono is LUCKY to be dead and not see what's become of his kid".

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 09:50 AM

Fish---------It makes my heart swell with pride in that you are FINALLY seeing the light. I have seldom seen such an abrupt turn-a-round, but it does show what a clear thinker you are, and that you will consider other sides of an argument. Well done!!!

By the way, (again) I don't deny that there is racism, I just think the left way over emphathises it, to the detriment of any rational conversation. Again I say, "to what end?" (unless to confuse the issue!?!?!?!?)

"Intent" is everything, and "interpretation" is speculation-----we "interpret" normally along bias lines already in our head, often incorrect.

Barry

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Barry A.]

Disgusting

Dave - 10-26-2011 at 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.


The most anti-Semitic statement I've ever read on this board. Did you think this up all by yourself?

I differ with the ACLU on many issues but let's be clear:

The ACLU is a public organization with membership open to all. It is top-heavy with liberals of every religious flavor...Mostly Christian, BTW. Its board members are elected. The suggestion that it is a Jewish cabal is preposterous.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.


The most anti-Semitic statement I've ever read on this board. Did you think this up all by yourself?

I differ with the ACLU on many issues but let's be clear:

The ACLU is a public organization with membership open to all. It is top-heavy with liberals of every religious flavor...Mostly Christian, BTW. Its board members are elected. The suggestion that it is a Jewish cabal is preposterous.

The ACLU is one of the most out of control left wing organizations in our country, period. One of my pet peeves is picking on the Boy Scouts. The ACLU has been relentless in trying to kick the Scouts off of public lands, using public buildings or receiving public funds all because the Scouts make you pledge "to do my duty to God".

Remember there are literally thousands of kids that have abusive parents or parents that just don't care about what their kids do on a daily basis. The Scouts provide structure that children need. The Scouts also teach responsibility and respect. These are all good things. The ACLU is basically taking a great, affordable opportunity away from children that need not only time away from chaotic homes, but some sort of structure to help them learn how to be responsible and how to respect authority.

There are a very small percentage of people in the world that are athiest or agnostic. Can't they just imagine that their god is no god? It doesn't say that the Scouts have to do their Catholic duty to god or worship Jesus or Buddha, it simply states "god". Not what god, just a god.

The ACLU is also peeed because the Scouts won't allow gay leaders to take the boys into the woods. No chit? They don't allow women or girls to come into the woods with the boys either. I guess I should keep my mouth shut - that may be next. By the way, where is all of the outrage against Muslim groups that use public facilities? Clearly, they are discriminating in exactly the same way. If you are not a Muslim, you are not in the club. They are using a taxpayer funded facility to host their meetings. Where is the outrage? Where are the lawsuits?

Of course there will be none. The ACLU long ago proved itself a far left organization whose sole purpose is to take down traditional (i.e. Christian) values and morals along with the social structure that goes along with it. No judgements on personal behavior can be made.

By the way, the Scouts have handled the ACLU so poorly it is barely worth comment. They just let the ACLU push them around wherever they want. The Scouts rarely provide people for interviews where it would do the greatest good - people like O'Reilly have tried their best to defend the Scouts, but the Scouts seem to be just sitting on their hands. Definitely not the best strategy to take against an organization like the ACLU.

JoeJustJoe - 10-26-2011 at 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Hey, no racism here. Why would Mexicans not vote Republican?

"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

This sentence uses race (Hispanic) and sexual orientation (homosexual) to begin it's rant against the ACLU. So from this writers perspective both Hispanic and Homosexual people are bad.

I can't see why Hispanics would not vote Republican and see their anti-immigration actions as racist. Can you?

Thanks for clarifying this sanquintinsince73

Iflyfish


Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing, meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.

I think that this is what the article was trying to convey.


Hell if Anthony D. Romero was Muslim too. The racist conservatives in the GOP, aka Tea Party would have your perfect Liberal bogeyman poster boy in a Latino/Gay/Muslim ACLU lawyer! Just think how such a poster boy would fire up the right-wing base.

The fact is the GOP, aka tea party is racist to the bone!

It's no wonder the majority of Blacks, and Latinos vote democrat. There are a few Blacks and Latinos that do vote GOP, but they are such a small minority and they don't speak for the majority of Blacks and Latinos that find the republican party hostile to Blacks and Mexicans in so many ways. The few Blacks and Latinos that do vote Republican are either very rich like Herman Cain, but the vast majority of them aren't rich, and vote against their own interests and are just wannabee rich people, and dream of the day when they are in that 1 percent and they sill reap the benefits of rich people. Sadly a few Blacks and Latinos are self-hating and that's why they vote GOP, but again it's such a small number of minorities that vote Republican.

Just the other day Rich Perry brought up the "birther" issue again because he was getting desperate for primary vote, because the "tea party" people jumped off the Perry bandwagon because he dared to give undocumented Mexican kids college tuition breaks in Texas. Can you believe the "tea party" dumped Perry over this one issue? Gee how racist!

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 11:51 AM

Barry

"Intent" is everything, and "interpretation" is speculation-----we "interpret" normally along bias lines already in our head, often incorrect.

sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

What you say is true. I could certainly be possible to interpret this statement as saying that the writer likes "in-your-face Hispanic homosexual"s. Or perhaps the author approves of homosexuality but simply does not like it "in your face". It may also be possible that he felt the need to simply educate others as to the race and sexuality of the director of this agency so that the reader could make an unbiased decision about the racism of the ACLU. Certainly no racism implied, it is only in my mind.

It seemed to me the article was about how the "Jews" run the ACLU and that they are somehow Anti-Israel and anti-chrisian. But then I am no doubt misreading this too thru my overly sensive blue Icelandic eyes.

sanquintinsince73
"Not a anti-Semite, I believe that we should defend Israel at all cost. It is the American Jews and their anti-Christian agenda that I have a problem with. Read on:
ACLU TOP HEAVY WITH JEWS"

Why in the world would you find so many Jews in an organization thats mission is to defend civil liberties? Who would think that Jews had any stake in this issue? Why would Jews want to defend freedom of speach, assembly etc.? Beats me?

Why would so many Jews be found in the ACLU when there are so many Jews in the Legal Profession. Why would jews be interested in an organization that fights racism? Got me there?

I went to the ACLU site and read the history of the organization
http://www.aclu.org/aclu-history

I still don't get why Jews would be interested in all of these issues. There can't be much money in it. It looks like you can be of any race, ethnicity or sexual orientation to work for the ACLU. I wonder why so many Jewish Lawyers end up there? I would think their parents would want them working for Wall Street and the Banks.

I don't get why Jewish ACLU attorneys would defend Christian kids who were wearing t shirts with the name of their church and a Bible verse on the front and "Islam is of the devil" on the back.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/11/aclu_defends_chri...

Why would these Jewish ACLU attorneys defend the students when Virginia schools stripped students' locker doors of their postings of the Ten Commandments, both Christian advocacy defenders and the ACLU have come to the defense of the Christian students.
http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2011/02/school-bans-ten-...

I can see how one could interpret this to be anti-christian activity if you looked at it just right. I am sure that the Heritage Foundation think tank is working on that one right now.

Iflyfish

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 12:23 PM

What puzzles me, Fish, is why does the left ALWAYS seem to assume that so much stuff that Righties say is "racist", and therefore they seem to assume that the individual MUST be a "racist", and then scream about it??? Just where does that get you??? I think it is simply a political ploy. We on the right see things differently than you on the left do, and we phrase things differently, we interpret things differently------thats a given, and has been proven over and over again. If we could just accept that, and work around it, I believe that we could get a lot more done, but I guess that is far to simplistic. Well, the way we are operating now in these discussions is certainly not the best way--------and it is "not working out well for us" at all.

I wish I had the answers--------but I don't, except in my mind I do, but I cannot express it in a way that makes any sense to most Democrats. We are beating our mutual heads against a stone wall, it seems. :(

Very frustrating. I don't believe I have a racist bone in my body, but I refuse to back away from the facts presented to me, and to talk about them, no matter how un-PC that appears to the lefties. I assume you feel the same?

Barry

Cypress - 10-26-2011 at 12:32 PM

"Liberals aren't ignorant, they know a lot that isn't true." Ronald Reagan

JoeJustJoe - 10-26-2011 at 01:12 PM

Ronald Reagan suffered Alzheimer’s while in office, according to his son!

Thank God for Nancy Reagans astrologers who was giving the Reagan's advice and calling the shots according to how the stars were lined up.

I guess anything is better than letting a crazy senile GOP President like Reagan call the shots.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-26-2011 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Ronald Reagan suffered Alzheimer’s while in office, according to his son!

Thank God for Nancy Reagans astrologers who was giving the Reagan's advice and calling the shots according to how the stars were lined up.

I guess anything is better than letting a crazy senile GOP President like Reagan call the shots.

You're to much bro.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by sanquintinsince73]

Cypress - 10-26-2011 at 01:37 PM

I repeat. Liberals aren't ignorant, they know a lot that isn't true.:biggrin:

Little Ronnie Wrong

MrBillM - 10-26-2011 at 02:06 PM

He mistakenly "thought" his Dad was suffering from a memory problem when the Old Man refused to acknowledge seeing Dancing Boy in a Tutu.

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 02:49 PM

Barry A.

I respect your point of view. I think where we do agree is that there is a profound history of racism in America. I think we can agree that the Irish, Italians, Germans, Asians, Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and people of minority genders and religions have all experienced discrimination. I think we can agree that some of the groups named above have experienced racial discrimination. I won't cite resources or examples of these statements unless someone requests that I do.

I also think that we can agree that racism and discrimination still exist in our society. I can cite resources and examples if requested to do so. I believe that every one of us has seen or experienced this racism and discrimination in our lives either on the receiving end or on the delivery end or possibly both.

You and I might differ on how to address these issues, but ignoring them is not in my view an option. I think that we both can agree that racism and discrimination is abuse. On a psychological level I know that acknowledgement of wrong is a necessary part of healing or resolve of abuse. I think we can agree that denial of racism and discrimination does not stop it.

I believe we can agree that as a country we have made progress in the area of race relationships. I assume we can agree that some people operate with a "victim" mentality and "persecute" others from that position while others play the role of “rescuer”. I believe that there is a psychological dance that involves moving from the victim to the rescuer or persecutor position. I believe that like a musical triad there are innumerable dances that can occur using these steps.

I see these dynamics play out in our discussions on either side of the political spectrum. (I actually think that rather than a linier measure with the right/left, I think it is a circle and where the right and left meet is Libertarianism).

Here is how the dance goes:

#1 starts out persecuting i.e. "Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

Then #2 says then rescues the minority, or in this case minorities “That is a racist statement”

Then #1 assumes the victim position and persecutes #2 “how dare you accuse me of being racist. You Liberals are always playing the race card”.

Then #2 either responds from the victim position and defends their position or goes prosecutorial and attacks.

The problem as I see it is that this sort of dialogue is a psychological game and that is why resolution is so elusive. I have experienced you attempting to come to genuine understanding and resolution, as your last post to me demonstrates. In my view there are reasonable solutions to the problems we address. This requires that each person understand and acknowledge the logical assertions of the other person.

In my view there are real facts however there are masters of spin afloat with the goal of polarizing the electorate in order that the real issues are not addressed. Again I would direct all readers to the website of Republican Buddy Roemer. http://www.buddyroemer.com/meet-buddy

I believe that Buddy Roemer is the only political candidate who is actually addressing the very real problems that our nation faces. He however cannot get air time because he only accepts $100 donations and refuses to be bundled and sold by Corporations or Corporate Media. I believe that this candidate addresses many of the fundamental issues that have corroded and undermined our political landscape. I believe that both the left and right can agree with him on many issues. There is common ground if we can move out of the dance we are now engaged in.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues

This thread was started based upon a question, that question is whether or not the Republican focus on Illegal Immigration would alienate Hispanic Voters. The discussion devolved into a discussion of racism, one of the potential reasons that Hispanics might not vote Republican. I believe that we saw a reasonable discussion descend into a dance of persecutor/rescuer/victim and resolution eluded us.

My view is that the focus on Illegal Immigration, Birther issues, Reproductive rights etc. are red herring that direct our legitimate frustrations and anger away from the rot that is at the core of our political apple. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are addressing these issues. The voting public has been shaped into believing that issues like these, including the national debt, deregulation and taxes are the fundamental issues that face us today. I believe that the Corporatization of politics in America is the fundamental issue that must be addressed. Buddy Roemer has put them front and center of his campaign. He is the ONLY one who is doing so and he can get virtually NO AIR TIME. His agenda is not in the interest of the top 1%, Corporate Politicians, Corporations and the Corporate Media who makes big bucks on political campaigns.

The Corporatization of American Politics is an issue that I believe unites the concerns of both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movements.

Iflyfish

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry A.

I respect your point of view. I think where we do agree is that there is a profound history of racism in America. I think we can agree that the Irish, Italians, Germans, Asians, Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and people of minority genders and religions have all experienced discrimination. I think we can agree that some of the groups named above have experienced racial discrimination. I won't cite resources or examples of these statements unless someone requests that I do.

YES, VERY TRUE--------I JUST CANNOT GET EXCITED ABOUT IT, THO.

I also think that we can agree that racism and discrimination still exist in our society. I can cite resources and examples if requested to do so. I believe that every one of us has seen or experienced this racism and discrimination in our lives either on the receiving end or on the delivery end or possibly both.

YES, I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN IN SEVERAL SITUATIONS WHERE I, OR MY KIDS, WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, VERBALLY ANYWAY, AND IN ACTIVITIES. #1 WAS IN S. OREGON WHILE RUNNING THE ROUGE RIVER FOR THE BLM IN 1985-----THE OREGONIANS AROUND ME, AND WORKING WITH ME, DID NOT HIDE THEIR CONTEMPT FOR CALIFORNIANS WHICH I WAS---------MY REACTION, I LAUGHTED AND IGNORRED THEM AND ROLLED WITH THE PUNCHS. #2 IN THE OUTER BANKS OF NORTH CAROLINA-------ALL OUTSIDERS WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, BOTH BY THE LOCAL WHITES, AND THE BLACKS ESPECIALLY, AND IT WAS FOCUSED ON MY KIDS WHO WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL AT THE TIME. BOTH ME AND MY KIDS JUST LAUGHED AT IT, AND BEFRIENDED BOTH THE WHITES AND THE BLACKS. #3 LIVED IN VERNAL, UTAH FOR 4 YEARS, AND VERNAL IS WAY MORMON-----WE WERE EXCLUDED FROM SOME SOCIAL FUNCTIONS, AND GENERALLY HAD A BAD TIME DOING BUSINESS, FOR A WHILE, BUT SOON BEFRIENDED ALMOST ALL OF THE MORMONS WE WORKED WITH, AND SOCIALLIZED WITH AND THERE WERE NO MORE REAL PROBLEMS.

You and I might differ on how to address these issues, but ignoring them is not in my view an option. I think that we both can agree that racism and discrimination is abuse. On a psychological level I know that acknowledgement of wrong is a necessary part of healing or resolve of abuse. I think we can agree that denial of racism and discrimination does not stop it.

LIFE ENCOUNTERS ALL TYPES OF MINOR "ABUSE"-----IT'S JUST A FACT, AND HUMAN NATURE. NOBODY IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT, NOBODY!!! IMO. I DON'T CLASSIFY RACISM AS "ABUSE"-----IT'S JUST A FACT OF LIFE, BUT TO A VERY SMALL DEGREE ANYMORE, OR AT LEAST THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE. IN OTHER WORDS IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL, AND YES, I AND MY KIDS JUST IGNOR IT.

I believe we can agree that as a country we have made progress in the area of race relationships. I assume we can agree that some people operate with a "victim" mentality and "persecute" others from that position while others play the role of “rescuer”. I believe that there is a psychological dance that involves moving from the victim to the rescuer or persecutor position. I believe that like a musical triad there are innumerable dances that can occur using these steps.

THAT IS WAY TO HEAVY FOR ME----------MY LAZY MIND CANNOT GRASP THOSE TENETS--------BUT YES, I AM SURE THAT HAPPENS.

I see these dynamics play out in our discussions on either side of the political spectrum. (I actually think that rather than a linier measure with the right/left, I think it is a circle and where the right and left meet is Libertarianism).

SORTA AGREE WITH THIS

Here is how the dance goes:

#1 starts out persecuting i.e. "Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".

Then #2 says then rescues the minority, or in this case minorities “That is a racist statement”

Then #1 assumes the victim position and persecutes #2 “how dare you accuse me of being racist. You Liberals are always playing the race card”.

Then #2 either responds from the victim position and defends their position or goes prosecutorial and attacks.

The problem as I see it is that this sort of dialogue is a psychological game and that is why resolution is so elusive. I have experienced you attempting to come to genuine understanding and resolution, as your last post to me demonstrates. In my view there are reasonable solutions to the problems we address. This requires that each person understand and acknowledge the logical assertions of the other person.

THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT YOU TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY, AND I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO RESOLVE THAT-----I STILL DON'T THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL.

In my view there are real facts however there are masters of spin afloat with the goal of polarizing the electorate in order that the real issues are not addressed. Again I would direct all readers to the website of Republican Buddy Roemer. http://www.buddyroemer.com/meet-buddy

I believe that Buddy Roemer is the only political candidate who is actually addressing the very real problems that our nation faces. He however cannot get air time because he only accepts $100 donations and refuses to be bundled and sold by Corporations or Corporate Media. I believe that this candidate addresses many of the fundamental issues that have corroded and undermined our political landscape. I believe that both the left and right can agree with him on many issues. There is common ground if we can move out of the dance we are now engaged in.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues

AGREE WITH YOU--------ALL GOOD POINTS--------AND ROEMER HAS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, BUT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY FOLKS ARE SO UPSET WITH ALL THIS. STUFF HAPPENS!!!

This thread was started based upon a question, that question is whether or not the Republican focus on Illegal Immigration would alienate Hispanic Voters. The discussion devolved into a discussion of racism, one of the potential reasons that Hispanics might not vote Republican. I believe that we saw a reasonable discussion descend into a dance of persecutor/rescuer/victim and resolution eluded us.

I ADMIT THAT THE ISSUE ALIENATES SOME HISPANICS------I CAN'T HELP THAT, AND I THINK THEY ARE WRONG, AND LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO BLAME.

My view is that the focus on Illegal Immigration, Birther issues, Reproductive rights etc. are red herring that direct our legitimate frustrations and anger away from the rot that is at the core of our political apple. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are addressing these issues. The voting public has been shaped into believing that issues like these, including the national debt, deregulation and taxes are the fundamental issues that face us today. I believe that the Corporatization of politics in America is the fundamental issue that must be addressed. Buddy Roemer has put them front and center of his campaign. He is the ONLY one who is doing so and he can get virtually NO AIR TIME. His agenda is not in the interest of the top 1%, Corporate Politicians, Corporations and the Corporate Media who makes big bucks on political campaigns.

The Corporatization of American Politics is an issue that I believe unites the concerns of both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movements.

I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE IMMEDIATE ABOVE AS TO THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ISSUES YOU CITE AS "IMPORTANT'. THE ISSUES YOU BELIEVE ARE "RED HERRINGS" ARE MOSTLY THE MAIN ISSUES, TO ME ANYWAY. THE "IMPORTANT" ISSUES YOU CITE ARE THERE, FOR SURE, BUT THERE IS LITTLE YOU OR I CAN DO ABOUT THEM. BUT THEN I HAVE LEARNED TO OPERATE IN THE EXISTING SYSTEM, RECOGNIZE IT'S CORRUPTION, GET AROUND IT TO PROSPER, FIGHT IT WHEN IT DIRECTLY CONFRONTS ME OR IS WITHIN MY CONTROL, AND GET ON WITH LIFE AND MAKING A LIVING. I STILL STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE SYSTEM WE HAVE ADOPTED IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE BEST AVAILABLE, AND DON'T WANT IT TO BE SCRAPPED FOR SOME UTOPIAN STATE THAT THE LEFTIES DREAM ABOUT, BUT WILL NEVER OBTAIN AS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, AGAINST HUMAN NATURE, NOBODY OR "STATE" CAN AFFORD IT, AND IT WOULD BE BORING ANYWAY.

I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS.

Iflyfish


Fish------those are all reasonable assumptions------I will try and address some of them in CAPS above-----

Barry

Skeet/Loreto - 10-26-2011 at 03:33 PM

Fish: Very Good Post:

Most of the so-called Racism we see and hear about is those People who try to use it to better their own position in an Argument or Discussion.
Most of the race problem that I have seen oaccurred when I worked in South Central LA, Oakland and San Francisco later and has bee all based in the Negro Culture.

Unfortunaly People base the Accoumplishments of a Group on its Color.

Falsey many people have been taught by those Lying Loberal professors that the Problem with the Negros is the Fault of the present Day White people.

It is very similar to the Accusing of the Rich People and Wall Street as the Fault of the People who do not really want to work and are seeking someone to Blame.

A Good example on this Board is Goat and Joe who are Poor Dumb Liberals who have not be able to Succeed in Life and Now Blame America and the Rich for their own Failures.
Their Hate for anything that does not fit into their Scheme of taking the Money from the Rich and giving it to the Poor DOPERS they accuse of being RAcist


Well I am off to do something tried and True for my Life and maybe the life of some Choldren in Need.

I am going to the MuleSkinners meeting at the Amarillo Khiva Shrine Temple. Will eat dinner, Talk and donate a few Dollars for the Childrens Hospital We have a large Temple and the MuleSkinners cook dinner for various Groups all over Amarillo and all money goes to our Burn Unit in Galveston,Texas..

Skeet, I Respect Your Viewpoint

Gypsy Jan - 10-26-2011 at 04:02 PM

And respect your considerable life experience.

But using the phrase, "those people", is written confirmation of racism and and it is a distinct contravention of legitimate profiling which operates on an individual basis, through due process

The use of the phrase "those people", diminishes and dismisses the plight of the poor, completely law abiding people desperate to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Sincerely yours, GJ

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Gypsy Jan]

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 04:40 PM

Barry A.

"I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS."

I very much doubt that your "American Dream" is somehow attached to Corporate Interests owning our political system. It seems to me that you have prospered through hard work not by the good graces of the current holders of PUBLIC office who are beholding to special interests that trump the interests of the voting public. Both of the political parties now must generate millions of dollars each week to pay for their political advertising.

The job of a PUBLIC servant now is to generate dollars to fund their political campaigns and the war chests of the parties they belong to. This fund raising goes on every day, 365 days of the year. :PUBLIC office now is a continual round of fundraising and seeing to it that you are addressing the interests of those who fund you.

Corporate funding outways public funding by a mile. Our elected PUBLIC officials can now say with impunity "Now Job Number 1 is to be sure that the present President is not re-elected"

Their job is no longer dealing with the jobs crisis, the health and welfare of the general public, cops on the street, good schools, good roads and bridges. the job of PUBLIC service is a political job generating money for political advertising and servicing the Corporate clients. There is no incentive to cooperate and seriously negotiate differences as long as they serve the interests of those who lobby for their special interests.

This does not serve the PUBLIC interest. The current people who occupy these PUBLIC offices and how they view their job is the problem, not the system as designed by our founding fathers. I am not for taking down the political system, but taking the money out of it. I am not a utopian in this effort, just a person who wants PUBLIC SERVANTS whose primary interest is servign the PUBLIC.

I have voted Democrat for many years. However neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are addressing the issues that this 4 term Congressman and Governor are addressing, that is the rot at the core of our apple.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues

Someone who advocates taking the money out of politics is someone who has the interest of the general Public in mind. He has no chance though because he has no Corporate Sponsors and Corporate Media are well aware that he does not represent their economic interest.

In my view it aught to be the corruption of Washington that turns off voters since it is the single most important issue that faces our country right now and it is an issue that most everyone can understand and get behind.

Iflyfish


Iflyfish

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
And respect your considerable life experience.

But using the phrase, "those people", is written confirmation of racism and and it is a distinct contravention of legitimate profiling which operates on an individual basis, through due process

The use of the phrase "those people", diminishes and dismisses the plight of the poor, completely law abiding people desperate to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Sincerely yours, GJ

[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Gypsy Jan]


Good grief, Gypsy---------I know you were not addressing this to me, but for heavens sake, I refer to my neighbors as "those people" when their party goes on after midnight. :lol:

----and also "those people" that speed up and down the freeway with loud exhaust which is only a half block from my house are often called "those people" at 3 am in the morning, and worse---------there is NO RACISM there at all.

It is a convenient way to refer to other groups of people when trying to make a point.............

(I am gettin nowhere here, I can just feel it..........) :rolleyes:

A true Venus/Mars situation.........again!!!!

Barry

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry A.

"I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS."

I very much doubt that your "American Dream" is somehow attached to Corporate Interests owning our political system. It seems to me that you have prospered through hard work not by the good graces of the current holders of PUBLIC office who are beholding to special interests that trump the interests of the voting public. Both of the political parties now must generate millions of dollars each week to pay for their political advertising.

The job of a PUBLIC servant now is to generate dollars to fund their political campaigns and the war chests of the parties they belong to. This fund raising goes on every day, 365 days of the year. :PUBLIC office now is a continual round of fundraising and seeing to it that you are addressing the interests of those who fund you.

Corporate funding outways public funding by a mile. Our elected PUBLIC officials can now say with impunity "Now Job Number 1 is to be sure that the present President is not re-elected"

Their job is no longer dealing with the jobs crisis, the health and welfare of the general public, cops on the street, good schools, good roads and bridges. the job of PUBLIC service is a political job generating money for political advertising and servicing the Corporate clients. There is no incentive to cooperate and seriously negotiate differences as long as they serve the interests of those who lobby for their special interests.

This does not serve the PUBLIC interest. The current people who occupy these PUBLIC offices and how they view their job is the problem, not the system as designed by our founding fathers. I am not for taking down the political system, but taking the money out of it. I am not a utopian in this effort, just a person who wants PUBLIC SERVANTS whose primary interest is servign the PUBLIC.

I have voted Democrat for many years. However neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are addressing the issues that this 4 term Congressman and Governor are addressing, that is the rot at the core of our apple.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues

Someone who advocates taking the money out of politics is someone who has the interest of the general Public in mind. He has no chance though because he has no Corporate Sponsors and Corporate Media are well aware that he does not represent their economic interest.

In my view it aught to be the corruption of Washington that turns off voters since it is the single most important issue that faces our country right now and it is an issue that most everyone can understand and get behind.

Iflyfish


Iflyfish


Absolutely correct, if only they (the politicians) will. I certainly cannot disagree with you on this point. Well stated, too.

When you refer to "PUBLIC servants", I assume you are referring to the Washington poags and not the folks in the field, which I was one of. Even tho I was in Management with BLM, I seldom felt any pressure from Washington, and even when I did I mostly ignorred it. That did not do my "upward mobility" much good, and in fact when it did get tiresome, I simply downgraded myself (GS-12 to GS-9) and went back to the field as a Ranger and enjoyed the last 10 years of my "career" without the BS of dealing with whiners and bean-counters. My stock investments in Corporations allowed me to do that---------a real luxury, I admit.

Tho I sometimes wince a little at the way Skeet says things, I mostly agree with him (maybe more than "mostly"??)-----he is a no-nonsense kind of guy, and I like that. Maybe it is an "age thing" with both of us----we both know what "works for us". :lol:

Barry

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 05:03 PM

Here is Chris Hays interviewing former Governor/ 4 term Republican Congressman, Buddy Roemer. I think you will find it interesting whether you are Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal. He has very little exposure because he only accepts $100 donations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 10-26-2011 at 05:12 PM

I think you, Skeet and I can all get behind what Buddy Roemer is saying. I would love to see him on the stage with the rest of the Republican candidates. Can't you just see him kicking Obama's mule in a general election talking about these issues? He is willing to name names and call it like he sees it. I admire that and am sure you would also. He is addressing in my view the fundamental issue that we are all dealing with and why Congress has a 12% approval rating. Check out http://buddyroemer.com/issues

I probably would not vote for Roemer, but I would love to see him focus the debate on a worthwhile topic rather than Womans Health Decisions, Gays and who is the most Religious or Conservative. Aren't you also sick of these petty debates? I sure am.
Iflyfish

[Edited on 10-27-2011 by Iflyfish]

Barry A. - 10-26-2011 at 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Here is Chris Hays interviewing former Governor/ 4 term Republican Congressman, Buddy Roemer. I think you will find it interesting whether you are Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal. He has very little exposure because he only accepts $100 donations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...

Iflyfish


Sounds good to me. Go Buddy Roemer!!!! I don't know anything about him, tho.

Barry

BajaGringo - 10-27-2011 at 08:57 AM

Buddy Roemer is probably the only honest guy running this election cycle which is why he stands a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting any press coverage, much less elected...

Buddy Stassen

MrBillM - 10-27-2011 at 12:29 PM

Given the fact that Buddy could fit his support inside a restroom, if not a phone booth (wherever one can still be found), his running for President is either simply 1. An attempt to expand his name recognition for other political purposes or 2. He's NUTS.

In any case, he's one of those Gadfly events that surfaces in every election cycle.

Iflyfish - 10-27-2011 at 03:06 PM

MrBillM

Have you gone to the links I posted and listened to what he has to say? I would think that any of us could get behind what this guy is saying. Is it possible that he is actually wanting to change the fact that Congress has been Corporatized and that negates the voice of the people these Public Servants are elected to represent?

Is it possible that the system as it now exists excludes voiices of candidates with real issues to raise. Is is possible that a candidate, even if not elected can change the focus of the campaign? How do you think that the debates would look if one of the Republicans were confronting the issue of corruption at the heart of our political system? How do you think Obama would react to being called out over his Wall Street and Bank sponsorship?

It only takes one voice to raise these issues and put them front and center in the next political cycle.

I doubt that Roemer is motivated by either narcissistic reasons nor do I think he is crazy. In fact he makes way more sense than any of the candidates now the campaign trail and that included Obama in my view.

The system is corrupt to the core and that issue needs to be addressed if we are actually going to have a government that represents us. Right now it is the best Congress money can buy and the Corporations have unlimited right to dump miney into Corporate Media campaigns and you and I do not. So whose candidates are these guys anyway? Look at who these Super PACS are composed of! Corporate money, millions and millions of Corporate money, so who then is the candidate accountable to?

Check out what Buddy Roemer has to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...

I am a life long Democrat and I am inviting you to listen to this Republican Governor/4 term Congressman and then see if you can still say he is nuts.

All this talk of Illegal Immigration, what people do with their sex organs, Woman's Health issues, maintaining tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of our population and their Corporate buddies are just distracting us from the underlying problem of the corruption of our political system that disenfranchises all of us who are not in those categories.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish

Buddy Banter

MrBillM - 10-27-2011 at 06:15 PM

Without much effort, it would no doubt be possible to find thousands who make the same sense he does who don't think they have a RatsAss chance to influence the Presidential race.

IF (as stated), his motives are NOT as I described and he DOES think his voice will have any influence, then he is, without doubt, DELUSIONAL.

At least I gave him the benefit of a reasonable motive.

mtgoat666 - 10-28-2011 at 06:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Given the fact that Buddy could fit his support inside a restroom, if not a phone booth (wherever one can still be found), his running for President is either simply 1. An attempt to expand his name recognition for other political purposes or 2. He's NUTS.

In any case, he's one of those Gadfly events that surfaces in every election cycle.


you forgot option 3, like pizza cain, philandering dough boy, palin (the non-candidate) and whacko bachman, he is running as a job, using the donations to live on, sell books, employ his cronies, etc. like cain and bachman and doughboy, no on says you have to be serious candidate, you just got to stick your mug out their to fleece the suckers.

mtgoat666 - 10-28-2011 at 06:15 AM


sanquintinsince73 - 10-28-2011 at 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

What part do the "ChiCom" own??

Cypress - 10-28-2011 at 08:13 AM

So, if a person "owns" , lets say, 20 acres of land, he or she is a what %'er? Ownership of how much land is OK? Who decides how much and who gets it. Uganda has already taken those "progressive" measures. Maybe we could just follow Uganda's example. Then all we'd have to worry about would be our next meal.

David K - 10-28-2011 at 08:29 AM

Re-distribution (communism/ socialism) has failed everywhere it was tried... but the left doesn't learn from the past.

Excellence, hard work, smart decisions should be rewarded, not punished.

'Corporations' only have wealth because the people freely buy their products... that is democracy. You vote for the corporation with your dollars. Also, corporations don't pay taxes but their customers do as the cost of making their product (including corporate tax) is included in the price. You raise the corporate tax, you just made their product more expensive for everyone to buy!

The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard.

mtgoat666 - 10-28-2011 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Re-distribution (communism/ socialism) has failed everywhere it was tried... but the left doesn't learn from the past.


extreme income inequality(self-interested extreme of capitalism) has caused social strife and political instability almost everywhere it has occurred... but the rich don't learn from the past.

Iflyfish - 10-28-2011 at 08:47 AM

David K

"The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard."

Yup, there is no one in the Occupy Wall Street movement who is complaining about unemployment at 9+ percent nationwide. Every one can get a job if they want. Same as the Great Depression, if someone really wanted a job they could have one. If someone does not have a job they must be lazy or morally corrupt.

What does the sign say in this Occupy Wall Street picture? Must be a plant since no one in that crowd wants a job.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/conservatives-to-...

These people are not protesting in support of the Jobs Bill.
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/13/news/augusta/wall-stre...

These people are not complaining about how Wall Street and the Banks bundled their mortgages and sold them at inflated prices all around the world thereby creating the greatest ecomonic crisis since the Great Depression thereby creating unprecidented unemployment. We have our jobs, have earned a good living. If we can do it then they can too.

They are not complaining about real wages falling over the last 30 years while Corporate income and the income of the top executives of those Corporations have sky rocketed.

They are not complaining about how their jobs have been sent overseas by International Corporations. This is all just a chance for them to party and smoke dope.

Nope, the real problems are Illegal Immigration, what people do with their sex organs, what women do with their uteruses, that taxes are too high and regulations too much for Corporations and the people who earn over a million dollars per year. These people are just lazey people who want to camp out on the streets in the rain and cold. Just a bunch of lazy muchers who want to take our money.

Republican Presidential Candidate Buddy Roemer is wrong about how the corruption in Washington has destroyed the middle class and sent jobs over seas because it is Corporations that now own our govenment and don't care about the high unemployment except how that issue affects their generating revenue for their 24/7 need to fill their campaign coffers.

Here is what Roemer said to a Conservative Blogger
"Here's what he told American Conservative blogger Rod Dreher today:


“I think conservatives believe in first principles. They believe that hard work should be rewarded. They believe that this country is great because it’s been generally free. And conservatives see that that’s disappearing. They see now that a big check can take the place of a big idea. They see now that the structure is not for the base, but is for the peak. It’s for the top one or two percent. They see Wall Street riddled with fraudulent documents. They see it riddled with the attitude of 'let’s fire Americans and go overseas.' They see it riddled with things that have had and will have bad effects on this economy.”

“We have almost permanent unemployment,” he continued. “They say it’s nine percent, but the real unemployment rate is more like 16 percent. These are people there are no jobs for, or they have to work part time to try to make ends meet. It’s disturbing. the Wall Street protest is unshaped, unfocused, but there’s a lot of power in it. We need the courage to go back to conservative principles — that is, the reward of hard work, the sense of fair play, the belief in individual strength rather than government solutions. To me, the Wall Street protests reflect all these sorts of things.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65378.html#ixzz1c5...

Concervative Republican Buddy Roemer has joined the Occupy Wall Street Movement so he must:
"The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard."

Shame on Buddy Roemer
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20111019/pl_dailycal...

Iflyfish



[Edited on 10-28-2011 by Iflyfish]

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