BajaNomad

Residencia Permanente card?

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bajalinda - 6-18-2013 at 03:57 PM

Here's some info from my latest visit to La Paz INM office - I'm in the process of getting my residente permanente. I had an FM2 (inmigrante rentista) with a "refrendo 4" on the back meaning that I have had that document for 4+ years (will have reached 5 years at the expiration date). I applied during the 30-day period prior to the expiration date and my application was accepted with no problem.

For those who have been told they have to wait til their current document expires before applying for RP, I can only think it is for those who have less than a "refrendo 4" (4 renewals), and therefore have not completed 4 full years.

I would also underscore what someone posted earlier about staying on top on things and checking back at the office on the status of your application. After my first visit I was told to check back in a week. There was no notice on the website saying to come to the office, but I went back after a week anyway and the next step was ready. I was told to check back again in a week....and the very next day there was a notice on the website saying to come to the office. go figure!?

There is a list on the wall for those who are there for the last step to come in and pick up their new card/document. If your name is on the list, you can go to a special dedicated window to pick up your card and you don't have to take a number and wait. They are saying 10 days between taking fingerprints and picking up the new card.

monoloco - 6-18-2013 at 04:14 PM

I only had refrendo 2 on my FM-2 and applied before it expired.

bajalinda - 6-18-2013 at 09:00 PM

well, jeeze, silly me for trying to make some sense out of the "apply after your card expires" thing (I always thought that sounded very weird). Seems like it depends which office you're dealing with. Glad to hear things went smoothly for you monoloco.

DaliDali - 6-19-2013 at 06:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I only had refrendo 2 on my FM-2 and applied before it expired.


I was sure one had to have an FM-2 for 5 years before being able to go permanent?

How is this done?....applying for and getting your permanent card with less than 5 years on the FM-2?

It seems if a person hires an agent or an attorney.....how long on the FM-2 does not apply?

DENNIS - 6-19-2013 at 06:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

I was sure one had to have an FM-2 for 5 years before being able to go permanent?

How is this done?....applying for and getting your permanent card with less than 5 years on the FM-2?

It seems if a person hires an agent or an attorney.....how long on the FM-2 does not apply?


It's not like were just discovering that rules are flexible here and each office has their own methods. My neighbor got his RP with three years with the FM-2, mainly because he owned his house, on rented land.
I guess we'll never get used to their flexibility, and we'll keep expecting rigid, US style interpretation.
Ours is a hard habit to get away from. Not sure I even want to anyway.

monoloco - 6-19-2013 at 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I only had refrendo 2 on my FM-2 and applied before it expired.


I was sure one had to have an FM-2 for 5 years before being able to go permanent?

How is this done?....applying for and getting your permanent card with less than 5 years on the FM-2?

It seems if a person hires an agent or an attorney.....how long on the FM-2 does not apply?
This is why I hired an agent to do it, I just showed up with what she told be to bring, six months worth of bank statements, my FM-2, passport, and photos, she did the rest. Couldn't have been easier. I also know people who have gone directly from FM-3 to Permanente, so I don't think there is any requirement to have had an FM-2. I am not certain, but there may be some differences in the financial requirements based on the length of residency under the previous system.

RnR - 6-19-2013 at 07:34 AM

IMPORTANT INFO

There are THREE ways to qualify for a Residente Permanente:

1. Have at least FOUR years on your current card - FM2 or FM3.

2. Have sufficient income based on bank statements - (Qualify immediately without a time requirement.)

3. A "points" system.

These are independent paths to the RP status. You only need to qualify under one method.

Go to INM's website. There is a pdf file checksheet that clearly lists what is needed to qualify and when.

maspacifico - 6-19-2013 at 07:38 AM

If you progress from an FM-3 to an FM-2 all the years count. If you stayed with an FM-3, renewed after 5 years, you need to be on the 4th renewal. I progressed, was on the 3rd renewal, and could apply for PR. My wife didn't change to an FM-2 and has to wait another year.
We've always done this ourselves but had talked to an agent regarding something else. When I asked him about this he had no knowledge of the progression issue! In the Cabo San Lucas office try to talk to Josephina and all will become clear. I believe she does the agent thing on the side but I have no contact information.
Of course next year it will all change again!

bajalinda - 6-19-2013 at 08:57 AM

As RnR says....look at the INM website. Here's the link:

http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Estancia_LM/Cambio_...

capitolkat - 6-19-2013 at 09:05 AM

This would have been my wife and my 3d year renewal on our FM3 but our agent said we could get the RP with 6 months of bank statements with sufficient income- ask me privately for income requirements-our card expires at the end of July and our agent will submit the application on July 4 and expects our RP on or before mid August-- La Paz immigration.

monoloco - 6-19-2013 at 09:17 AM

Bottom line IMO, is to just hire a good agent, with the time and frustration dealing with the intricacies saved, it's well worth the small amount you'll pay to never have to deal with migracion again.

DaliDali - 6-19-2013 at 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco, it's well worth the small amount you'll pay to never have to deal with migracion again.


Now that my friend is exactly what I am looking for.....to never have to talk to these people again. (maybe)

DENNIS - 6-19-2013 at 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
never have to deal with migracion again.


Until they change things anyway. Enjoy it while it lasts.

chuckie - 6-19-2013 at 09:33 AM

So far, I have learned 431 ways to get an RP....BUT Still have not seen anything which addresses a couple of issues. After getting an RP:
1. Will I have to import my vehicles?
2. Will I have to file a Mexican tax return?
Both of these questions should have Yes or No answers.

I suspect I will get 432 "How to's" But maybe not...

Here's a new/different requirement

durrelllrobert - 6-19-2013 at 09:48 AM

My wife had a 4 year combined FM3-FM2 and was able to apply for PR. However, since she had no proof of income I had to submit a separate letter stating that I am supporting her, even though I haven't applied for my RP yet and have never submitted any proof of income.

monoloco - 6-19-2013 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
So far, I have learned 431 ways to get an RP....BUT Still have not seen anything which addresses a couple of issues. After getting an RP:
1. Will I have to import my vehicles?
2. Will I have to file a Mexican tax return?
Both of these questions should have Yes or No answers.

I suspect I will get 432 "How to's" But maybe not...
It's unclear on #1, although I've never heard of anyone being asked for immigration documents during a traffic stop in Baja, as for #2, there is no need to pay any income tax or file anything if you do not derive any income from work or investments in Mexico.

RnR - 6-19-2013 at 06:45 PM

Income Requirements for Residente Permanente, (for immediate qualification without a 4 year wait):

From INM's on-line checksheet -

1. Show a monthly income of 500 times the official daily MX minimum wage for the last six months.

2. 2013 minimum wage is about 64 pesos/day.

3. At 12.4 pesos/USD = $5.16 USD/day.

4. 500 x 5.16 = $2,580 USD/month.

5. This varies as the exchange rate and minimum wage varies. (Six months ago it was only about $2,200 USD/month. Exchange rate went down AND minimun wage went up)

6. There is no requirement to continue to show proof of income after the RP card is received.

chuckie - 6-20-2013 at 05:01 AM

OK..I'll keep asking.....
1. Does the LAW say I have to import my car? It is not "do they check documents at a traffic stop"
2. Do I have to file a Mexican tax return? NOTE! The question is not "Do I have to pay taxes or what is the income requirement"......It is not, "Do I have to show proof of income after RP."

SFandH - 6-20-2013 at 05:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
but she ways they want same name on passport as the bank statements and are being very firm.




No problem. Do what I did and make your own bank statements.


:lol:

Why not make your own Perm Res card? You'll never use it anyway.

Seriously, what's it good for, besides good "citizenship"?


[Edited on 6-20-2013 by SFandH]

DaliDali - 6-20-2013 at 07:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by capitolkat
but she ways they want same name on passport as the bank statements and are being very firm.




No problem. Do what I did and make your own bank statements.


:lol:

Seriously, what's it good for, besides good "citizenship"?

[Edited on 6-20-2013 by SFandH]


Never having to pay a renewal again.
Permanent is permanent.....
No dodging around with the Migra, no bank runs to pay the fees, no more photos, no more income statements, no more permission letter to exit the country........just NO more!!

rhintransit - 6-20-2013 at 07:57 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, what's it good for, besides good "citizenship"?

[Edited on 6-20-2013 by SFandH]


Never having to pay a renewal again.
Permanent is permanent.....
No dodging around with the Migra, no bank runs to pay the fees, no more photos, no more income statements, no more permission letter to exit the country........just NO more!!


AMEN!

jAnswers?

akshadow - 6-20-2013 at 08:56 AM

I too have had the same questions, but then think "answers today, even if correct, have very little to do with what will really be done in the future"

I would make sense in the long term if you are a permanent resident you would eventually be required to follow same rules as a Mexican would be required to do. Pay taxes, have Mexican license plates, Mexican auto insurance, (not tourist auto insurance) etc
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
OK..I'll keep asking.....
1. Does the LAW say I have to import my car? It is not "do they check documents at a traffic stop"
2. Do I have to file a Mexican tax return? NOTE! The question is not "Do I have to pay taxes or what is the income requirement"......It is not, "Do I have to show proof of income after RP."

RnR - 6-20-2013 at 09:39 AM

For Chuckie (and all others) .....
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
OK..I'll keep asking.....

2. Do I have to file a Mexican tax return? NOTE! The question is not "Do I have to pay taxes or what is the income requirement"......It is not, "Do I have to show proof of income after RP."


Here is a link to the best interpretation of Mexican Income Tax law that I have found. Like US law, it is complicated and its applicability is very individualistic.

Mexican Income Tax

Read the section "Residence Rules" carefully.

If you want to see the actual law and not somebody's interpretation of the law, go to SAT's mexican website. However, the law is in Spanish (of course) and is just about as complicated and convoluted as trying to read the US IRS's laws!



[Edited on 6-20-2013 by RnR]

monoloco - 6-20-2013 at 10:52 AM

RnR, Doesn't Mexico have a minimum income requirement for filing taxes?

RnR - 6-20-2013 at 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
RnR, Doesn't Mexico have a minimum income requirement for filing taxes?


See my above post for the link.

I edited my above post to remove the synopsis and just included the link. Everybody can make their own determination.

(Maybe this needs to be be re-posted as its own topic ????)

[Edited on 6-20-2013 by RnR]

It seems to me the answer is in the very first paragraph.

monoloco - 6-20-2013 at 01:46 PM

Residents

Individuals should file a Mexican annual income tax return by 30 April of the following year, except in the following cases.

When they receive only exempted income or income on which the income tax withheld or paid is considered final.
When they only receive wages and salaries amounting less than MXP400,000, provided they did not work for two or more employers simultaneously during the year and were employed at the end of the year. However, see the following condition. This exception does not apply when the employee receives salary payments derived from foreign sources or from entities with no withholding obligation.
Individuals obtaining a combined annual income of salary and interest income not exceeding MXP400,000, if and when the actual interest (interest versus inflation) does not exceed MXP100,000, are not obligated to file an annual tax return provided that the income tax on the actual interest has been withheld to them. In this case, the tax withheld is considered final. It is important to mention that as of 1 January 2012 this statement will be derogated, as the tax calculated on interest income will be considered as a final payment and the procedure to calculate the tax will change.

That sounds to me like there is no need to file if you had less than MXP 400,000 in income. If you derive your income from work or investments in another country, it is not taxable in Mexico. Thanks RnR for posting the link.

[Edited on 6-20-2013 by monoloco]

DENNIS - 6-20-2013 at 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
That sounds to me like there is no need to file if you had less than MXP 400,000 in income. Thanks RnR for posting the link.


Doesn't look as though Mexico brings in enough money to run the country. What percentage of the workers make that kind of money?
And those in the higher brackets are still able to write off the six tequila lunches and everything else under the sun.

monoloco - 6-20-2013 at 02:04 PM

Cheating on taxes in Mexico is almost universal.

monoloco - 6-20-2013 at 02:11 PM

After reading through the link again, it seems like it was written for executives who are working in Mexico, not for ex-pats who derive their income from the states and pay taxes on it there. I'm certainly not going to file any tax returns in Mexico, nor do any ex-pats I know who aren't employed here.

DENNIS - 6-20-2013 at 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Cheating on taxes in Mexico is almost universal.



I'm not sure it's cheating......more like creative. I've had business owners tell me taxes are a nonissue for them because they have a good accountant. It's like it used to be in the states.

monoloco - 6-20-2013 at 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Cheating on taxes in Mexico is almost universal.



I'm not sure it's cheating......more like creative. I've had business owners tell me taxes are a nonissue for them because they have a good accountant. It's like it used to be in the states.
Ha, why do you think they never want to give you a factura at the ferreteria?

DENNIS - 6-20-2013 at 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Ha, why do you think they never want to give you a factura at the ferreteria?


Actually, I've never had a problem with that. They always ask if I want one.
Another legit business that always asks is Office Depot. Every time.
By law [I know...:lol:] they have to give you a proper receipt.

I'm not sure a factura and a receipt are the same thing. I didn't think they were. :?:

Bajatripper - 6-22-2013 at 01:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
A friend here in Punta Banda hired and paid an agent to apply for her RP 30 days before her FM2 expired. The agent did not submit the application until the day after it expired so it was rejected and she now has to start the 4 year period all over with a Residente Temporal card

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by durrelllrobert]


This is very interesting since I was just told by Imigracion that I had to apply after my current FM-2 expires and not a day sooner.

Bajatripper - 6-22-2013 at 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Ha, why do you think they never want to give you a factura at the ferreteria?


Actually, I've never had a problem with that. They always ask if I want one.
Another legit business that always asks is Office Depot. Every time.
By law [I know...:lol:] they have to give you a proper receipt.

I'm not sure a factura and a receipt are the same thing. I didn't think they were. :?:


In order to get a factura you have to provide them with some sort of number that I'm guessing indicates that you have a business registered in Mexico which causes that number to be generated.

monoloco - 6-22-2013 at 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Ha, why do you think they never want to give you a factura at the ferreteria?


Actually, I've never had a problem with that. They always ask if I want one.
Another legit business that always asks is Office Depot. Every time.
By law [I know...:lol:] they have to give you a proper receipt.

I'm not sure a factura and a receipt are the same thing. I didn't think they were. :?:


In order to get a factura you have to provide them with some sort of number that I'm guessing indicates that you have a business registered in Mexico which causes that number to be generated.
RFC number for tax purposes issued by Hacienda.

grace59 - 6-22-2013 at 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
A friend here in Punta Banda hired and paid an agent to apply for her RP 30 days before her FM2 expired. The agent did not submit the application until the day after it expired so it was rejected and she now has to start the 4 year period all over with a Residente Temporal card

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by durrelllrobert]


This is very interesting since I was just told by Imigracion that I had to apply after my current FM-2 expires and not a day sooner.

My husband and I went in to apply for our RP yesterday. He has an FM2 and I have an FM3. What our agent told us is this: Since my husband has a FM2 he can apply for the RP up to 30 days in advance and they will submit his application on Monday. Because I have the FM3 I must wait to apply the day after my FM3 expires. I don't know why???

chuckie - 6-23-2013 at 04:49 AM

It seems, in answer to my questions, that filing a Mexican tax return is not neccessary if you meet the guidlines. As to the car, the law says you can not drive a US plated car as a permanent resident. BUT that is not, at this time being enforced.....I dont think I'll get an RP.....I see no benefit except avoiding the annual filing hassle....which is a non issue with me....

MitchMan - 6-24-2013 at 11:18 AM

A factura is a receipt.

The significant difference between a non-factura receipt and a factura is that the factura is a "registered/tracked" receipt where IVA is listed and accounted for. The vendor who issues a factura will and must remit the IVA to the taxing authority for the corresponding and related sale. For a sale transaction where no facture was ever issued, said sale is most likely and most deliberately not reported to the taxing authority and neither is any IVA remitted to said taxing authority by the vendor for transaction/sale.

The non-factura sales are most likely and most deliberately not reported on any income tax return and therefore the vendors' income tax liability will be less.

The blank facturas that printers provide to merchants/vendors must be on special forms printed by certain authorized printers only.

The entire Mexican system is ridiculous, anti-business, cumbersome, ineffective, and produces the exact opposite results that they are trying for. Most all independent contractor vendors/merchants/service providers try to avoid issuing facturas and deliberately do not obtain checking accounts. Checking account administration and use is also riddled with stupid, ridiculous, anti-business, cumbersome and ineffective procedures and requirements as well. Between facturas and checking account policies and practices, Mexico is hurting itself economically and misses out on taxing a tremendous amount of "under the table" type of income.

FWIW, similar under the table income is lost to taxation by the IRS and other taxing authorities here in the USA. When you drive on your town's main drag and look at all the sole proprietorship, ma and pa businesses that line the street, at least 90% of them are under reporting their income to the IRS and to the sales taxing authorities as well. However, in this country, the taxing authorities employ more effective methods to ferret out under the table revenue upon audit.

durrelllrobert - 6-24-2013 at 11:36 AM

My wife submitted her PR application in Ensenada, via an agent, last Monday and has an appointment for fingerprinting tomorrow (Tuesday). Muy Rapido!

DENNIS - 6-24-2013 at 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
My wife submitted her PR application in Ensenada, via an agent, last Monday and has an appointment for fingerprinting tomorrow (Tuesday). Muy Rapido!


Then.... thirty more days for DF.

MitchMan - 6-24-2013 at 11:46 AM

With regard to having an RP status and "therefore' not being able to drive a US plated car in Baja, all documentation always asserts that such prohibitions relate only to "NON-PROHIBITED" Mexican territory. By deduction, since all of Baja is "PROHIBITED" Mexican territory, then it would follow that there would be no requirement for those of us with RP status to either nationalize our vehicles nor would we be disallowed from driving our US plated vehicles in the Baja.

The only problem is that whenever on reads the pertinent literature on this matter, the rules are always prefaced with a statement indicating that the rules do not apply to prohibited territory. That kind of writing is not as definitive as specific indications with specific language in the text of the rules themselves that indicates inapplicability of the rules, point by point.

Let's face it, given the inconsistent application of law by Mexican authority on a wide variety of issues, the inconsistent policies practiced by various government offices in the same agency, and the apparent lack of clarity on many things in general, it's hard to have confidence in any interpretation of the rules.

laventana - 6-24-2013 at 09:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
With regard to having an RP status and "therefore' not being able to drive a US plated car in Baja, all documentation always asserts that such prohibitions relate only to "NON-PROHIBITED" Mexican territory. By deduction, since all of Baja is "PROHIBITED" Mexican territory, then it would follow that there would be no requirement for those of us with RP status to either nationalize our vehicles nor would we be disallowed from driving our US plated vehicles in the Baja.

The only problem is that whenever on reads the pertinent literature on this matter, the rules are always prefaced with a statement indicating that the rules do not apply to prohibited territory. That kind of writing is not as definitive as specific indications with specific language in the text of the rules themselves that indicates inapplicability of the rules, point by point.

Let's face it, given the inconsistent application of law by Mexican authority on a wide variety of issues, the inconsistent policies practiced by various government offices in the same agency, and the apparent lack of clarity on many things in general, it's hard to have confidence in any interpretation of the rules.
well even before a FM2 was not allowed to have a US plated vehicle here in baja sur. Had a friend that was a FM2 about 10 years ago who told me never to get a FM2 because every once in a while he would get pulled over and have issue with the police. Though he never had a car or motorcycle confiscated, it was threatened many times. So he always recommended to me not to move to FM2 status. I never did but more for the tax issues that he also warned me about.

So with a major on-slot of people getting the permanent residency they may see a money making opportunity become the potential concern.

What would be nice to hear is what they use to do with FM2s on the mainland, were they also told as people are now on the mainland that they can not have us plated vehicles like the new permanent resident people are being told now.

My friend was not allowed to take the ferry with any of his US plated vehicles, just like now several permanent resident people were stopped at the ferry in LaPaz. second potential critical area is insurance liability, if you are operating a vehichcle illegally by the laws what happens with the new upper liability limits, will the insurance company deny benifits? We know in the USA they do this, I have a friend who worked as a lawyer defending the people deniedn the USA, he was very busy.

[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]

chuckie - 6-25-2013 at 04:56 AM

Gets complicated doesnt it? From discussions here in Mulege (my opinion) it seems as if the RP has become a sort of status thing. Lots of folks getting them that really arent permanent residents. Snowbirds, who may or may not have ownership of property....

laventana - 6-25-2013 at 08:15 AM

forgot to add the insurance issue if you are technically not abiding by the written law. Who wants to be the test case with the new insurance liability limits when the insurance company denies the claim because you were not driving a legal vehicle.

who thinks they can win a court case against a insurance company here in Mexico?

They do this all the time in the USA, have a friend that worked in a law firm that was defending people whos insurance companies were denying them benefits in the USA.

My first in-expensive lesson here in Mexico was with a insurance policy I bought from Vagabondos. I was in a minor fender bender about 6 weeks after I bought the policy. would have been 50 bucks, but I was then told my insurance company here in Mexico was bankrupt. thus ended up having to pay several hundred dollars.

I was upset with Vagabondos, they said they could not be held responsibly which in general I agree they are just a broker. But they just sold me the policy, these issues had to be showing their ugly signs by then you do not go bankrupt in a day. And they never notified me. They did pay a price, at the time my office was right across the street from them in rio vista and I felt bad for the employees (knew it was not their responsibility) as I would walk there every week asking to see the owner, who would never talk with me(he was never there) even talk to me face to face. My office was there for several years. Now a days with everyone on the internet we would hear about a problem with the actual insurer much faster. Back at that time 14 years ago many were not computer literate still.



[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]

CortezBlue - 6-25-2013 at 08:46 AM

Not that it means anything,,,,,, but, when we picked up our Permanent Resident cards I asked the agent about having to have our autos tagged with Mexican plates and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. He said our only future requirements are.

1. If we move within San Felipe we need to update our address with Immigration

2. If we were to move to another town in Mexico, we needed to go to the new local Immigration office and update our information.

I think the only time having Mexico plates would make a difference is if you drove a brand new high dollar truck, then you may have a trouble and chances are you would have your truck confiscated never to be seen again.

MitchMan - 6-26-2013 at 10:57 AM

laventana,

You make some absolutely solid comments...and your comments all are dependent on whether or not, legally, the prohibitions for driving US plated cars while having either an FM2 status or a Residente Permanente status apply to "Prohibited Mexican Territory" (i.e., the Baja) or not. That is the issue. And, as I mentioned above, the documentation/literature that I have read on the prohibitions have been all prefaced by stating that such prohibitions pertain to non-prohibited territory only.

In my view, you are absolutely right that IF the prohibitions DO IN FACT LEGALLY APPLY to prohibited territory in Baja, then whether or not it is enforced by the municipal police or even federales in Baja is irrelevant in that vehicle insurance policies ostensibly covering such a US plated vehicle will be considered null by the Mexican insuring company upon a claim. To me, THAT is a controlling factor. I certainly do not want to drive a vehicle that has unenforceable coverage. That's just not acceptable.

But, again, it all depends on whether or not the prohibitions of driving a US plated vehicle in the Baja by an American with Residente Permanente status apply to Prohibited Mexican Territory (i.e., the Baja). What is the "apparent" practice or enforcement or what has been recently observed in some instances here in Baja by third parties in this short term could be only of limited significance in the long run.

It makes sense to me that those RPs who use the ferry to go to mainland Mexico from the Baja with their US plated cars would run into problems as the prohibitions against RPs/FM2s driving US plated vehicles is not permitted in the NON-PROHIBITED Mexican territory of mainland Mexico.

Certainly, whether or not the abovementioned prohibitions are in fact limited to mainland Mexico and therefore to non-prohibited Mexican territory only will be the absolute controlling factor as to the enforceability of coverage of vehicle insurance on US plated cars in the Baja driven by owners that have RP status.

Again, the question is: Do the vehicle prohibitions that accompany RP status apply in Prohibited Baja territory or just to the non-prohibited territory of mainland Mexico?

The Free Zone, also known as the Liberated Zone, or Perimeter Zone or Free Trade Zone is a customs designation only for that area located along the Mexican international land borders? This area, for customs purposes, is not considered part of Mexico, in that items brought from other countries into this zone are not considered imported into Mexico.

[Edited on 6-26-2013 by MitchMan]

laventana - 6-26-2013 at 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MitchMan
laventana,

You make some absolutely solid comments...and your comments all are dependent on whether or not, legally, the prohibitions for driving US plated cars while having either an FM2 status or a Residente Permanente status apply to "Prohibited Mexican Territory" (i.e., the Baja) or not. That is the issue. And, as I mentioned above, the documentation/literature that I have read on the prohibitions have been all prefaced by stating that such prohibitions pertain to non-prohibited territory only.

.........

Again, the question is: Do the vehicle prohibitions that accompany RP status apply in Prohibited Baja territory or just to the non-prohibited territory of mainland Mexico?

The Free Zone, also known as the Liberated Zone, or Perimeter Zone or Free Trade Zone is a customs designation only for that area located along the Mexican international land borders? This area, for customs purposes, is not considered part of Mexico, in that items brought from other countries into this zone are not considered imported into Mexico.

[Edited on 6-26-2013 by MitchMan]


obviously I see your point. But as we know a mexican driving a US plated car in the free trade zone will lose the car. I know this as a fact because one of my real good friends (Mexican) was picking up his uncle a Mexican lawyer in LaPaz at the airport and they were pulled over leaving the airport, and lost the car on the spot.

And the point here is once you become a resident you agree to abide by all laws. And on the mainland they have confiscated from what I have read at least two vehicles from gringos with the new permanent resident status.

I have read they have backed off this a bit. But it does mean it is the law.

so the next thing with the new liability of being in some states USD$300,000.00 per person. So if you do get in an expensive accident the first thing a insurance company in the USA does is find out how to not pay if there was anything that was not legal. Thus my point do you think you can win in court against a Mexican insurance company? How much will that war cost? And second do you want to be the test case?

So for from what I have read about $500.00 to $1,000.00 why not nationalize the vehicle, you are saving that alone by not paying the fees every year.

[Edited on 6-27-2013 by laventana]

MitchMan - 6-27-2013 at 10:17 AM

I appreciate your response, laventana. I don't disagree with much that you have stated. I think that this issue will fall out in the way you have described.

While there was a presentation by the aduana recently that stated in a Power Point presentation that if you are an inmigrado or an RP, you must nationalize your vehicles, that was their unofficial interpretation of things at this point, but not the official codified statutory response because no such legal rulings have been promulgated officially as yet by the Aduana.

I do believe that sooner rather than later, there will be an official legal position taken, but, it hasn't been taken just yet. Also, I think the likelihood of things falling out the way you say are quite high.

The legal issue is whether or not in the final legal codified determination, will there be either a statutory stipulated temporary period to allow for compliance, or will there be complete and permanent relief from having an RP nationalize their US plated vehicle in ONLY THE FREE ZONE (i.e., the Baja), given that FM2 holders have been relieved of such a requirement in the Free Zone of Baja and in keeping with NAFTA's intent behind creating a Free Zone in the first place.

Those confiscations that you mention happened in the Mainland but so far are not totally persistent actions across the board in the mainland or in the Baja thus far. Also, it is claimed that the Mazatlan police that did the confiscating were looking for vehicles driven by RPs with "expired TIPs", and, as you know, TIPs are not required in the Free Zone (i.e., the Baja). For those vehicles with current TIPs, well, they might have been OK. However, in the Free Zone, US pated vehicles are required to have current US plates and current US state registration while not requiring a TIP.

So, was that vehicle that was confiscated in La Paz, did they have current US plates/registration?

BTW, how is it that a Mexican got his car confiscated in La Paz? Are you saying a Mexican citizen owned a US plated vehicle? Also, what kind of police confiscated his car? Federales or local police? That's important because there has been frequent federale check points on the Carretera Norte just under the Airport overpass in the last 9 months.

I think that things will go exactly as you have described in the end...unfortunately for me.

[Edited on 6-27-2013 by MitchMan]

bajalinda - 6-27-2013 at 06:53 PM

I picked up my RP card yesterday at La Paz INM. It took 4 and a half weeks from submitting request to picking up the card. If I lived closer to La Paz and had been able to get to the office more frequently, I could have had it in about 3 and a half weeks. The whole process went very smoothly and the La Paz office seems to have the procedure figured out - at least in my case they did.

“Free at last, Free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last.”

Howard - 6-28-2013 at 11:28 AM

Received my Residente Permnente card today! Woot woot!

After being told numerous times by the local immigration that I did not qualify, I got a lawyer involved and low and behold, he got it done. Easy peasey, nice and easy.

The people at Immigration were very nice with no attitudes even after they originally said no and I would have to wait 4 more years.

schwlind - 7-9-2013 at 03:37 PM

My question is if you are a US or Canadian citizen who has received RP status here in MX... How do the cops know what your status is?

Over the 20+ years of spending time in Baja, I've never been asked to "see your papers".

DENNIS - 7-9-2013 at 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by schwlind
My question is if you are a US or Canadian citizen who has received RP status here in MX... How do the cops know what your status is?



Who cares what they know? If it ever becomes an issue, tell them, but like you said, it hasn't been an issue yet and probably never will be.

Marinero - 7-10-2013 at 08:18 PM

Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure?

DENNIS - 7-10-2013 at 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marinero
Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure?



Just go. Quit acting like a victim.

chuckie - 7-11-2013 at 03:35 AM

I think like with most of the rest of it, no one will have an answer to the question about leaving and reentering Mexico with an RP. I have seen language that says you maybe possibly might be have to fill out a form each time you do so. Who knows? We wont find out what the consequences of having an RP are until the Govt begins enforcing the rules if they ever do.....

rhintransit - 7-11-2013 at 06:37 AM

Loreto INM told me I'd need to get an FMM every time I entered/exited, to go with my RP.
as with most everything else they've told me, I take that with a HUGE grain of salt. so, unless I fly and am forced to get one, I won't.

monoloco - 7-11-2013 at 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rhintransit
Loreto INM told me I'd need to get an FMM every time I entered/exited, to go with my RP.
as with most everything else they've told me, I take that with a HUGE grain of salt. so, unless I fly and am forced to get one, I won't.
That's correct, exactly the same as it was with FM-2 and FM-3.

Lee - 7-11-2013 at 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Marinero
Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure?


Just go. Quit acting like a victim.


Easy Dennis. We're all just looking for answers. There simply is no one answer regardless of what rolls down from the top.

It's best to make assumptions for yourself and less involvement with INM, the better. Like, I wonder if I need an entry/exit visa for my R/P? Nah.

Just decide it's not necessary and move on. In the end, who cares?

Marinero - 7-11-2013 at 08:10 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure?



Just go. Quit acting like a victim.


Please notice I said "technically". A request for information hardly makes one a victim. In fact, it often prevents it.

yesterday............

bajadave1 - 7-11-2013 at 08:50 AM

We just flew in to SJD yesterday. Went thru resident: rather than tourist/foreigner. It actually worked. Amazing!!!!!!!!!:bounce::bounce:

CortezBlue - 7-11-2013 at 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajadave1
We just flew in to SJD yesterday. Went thru resident: rather than tourist/foreigner. It actually worked. Amazing!!!!!!!!!:bounce::bounce:


Was your flight intrastate or did you fly in from the USA?

If you flew in from the USA did they ask for the slip of paper from your last exit from mexico?

DENNIS - 7-11-2013 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marinero

Please notice I said "technically". A request for information hardly makes one a victim. In fact, it often prevents it.


I stand corrected. Sorry about that.

Marinero - 7-11-2013 at 01:39 PM

Quote:
I stand corrected. Sorry about that.


Thanks, Dennis, I appreciate that.
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