BajaNomad - ACA - Obamacare?

ACA - Obamacare?

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bajatravelergeorge - 12-16-2013 at 10:32 PM

Having a medical malpractice attorney in the family has convinced me to never, ever have Kaiser involved in my healthcare. You will never hear the horror stories I hear due to Kaisers arbitration policies and the number of Kaiser cases my family member handles is higher than any other medical provider. Kaiser is also very careful with its public image and they "manage" it in a way similar to Hyundai or Kia. They sell you junk but they "train" their retailers to "train" consumers to give them high marks. This is why Kaiser has developed a cult like following.

Secondly, socialised medicine in America has been a goal of liberals for decades and the ACA is the first step in that direction. They hijacked a narrow set of healthcare issues that affected a small percentage of the population like pre-existing conditions and caps on coverage to justify tearing apart the current system. There were other ways to fix those issues without resorting to the ACA. I must congratulate oxxo for his mastery of the liberal talking points and his dedication to the liberal cause, though I must respectfully disagree. BTW, I don't watch foxnews or msnbc and I'm not associated with any Tea Party group, so save those insults for someone else.

dasubergeek - 12-16-2013 at 11:23 PM

California forces hospitals to publish their tariff sheets (called "charge masters"). These are the "rack rates" they charge to Joe Schmo who walks in and is going to pay for his own care. It's ridiculous; you'll see things like $26 for a dose of Tylenol that would cost $1.99 at the 7-Eleven. Those charge masters, more than anything else, made me realize to what extent the insured pay for the uninsured.

oxxo - 12-17-2013 at 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasubergeek
Those charge masters, more than anything else, made me realize to what extent the insured pay for the uninsured.

And how those uninsured get soaked. And how the uninsured are paid for by taxpayers more often than not.

DavidE - 12-17-2013 at 01:34 PM

Until lawyers are separated from the trough, there will be no "fix". A too high percentage of ER patients are undocumented and thus the federal health plan will have little effect on ER service solicitations.

Doctors need some form of grading system. Like an automotive service facility, the good ones get a lot of customers. Many MD's I have had to deal with in the Medicare system are unabashed rejects. They would never make it on their own. Not in a million years.

Ewww in the right light I can see SCARS from the stitches. Time to call Carnage and Shyster LLC.

Cypress - 12-17-2013 at 01:35 PM

You just can't fix stupid. :lol:

Bajaboy - 12-17-2013 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
You just can't fix stupid. :lol:

You betcha :lol:

mtgoat666 - 12-17-2013 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Oh I just love that quote from Bajatravelergeorge, that a pre-existing condition or caps on coverage only affects a small percentage of the population.

Really Bajatravelergeorge ?
____________________________________
Bajatravelergeorge wrote:

They hijacked a narrow set of healthcare issues that affected a small percentage of the population like pre-existing conditions and caps on coverage to justify tearing apart the current system. There

if you look at the various estimates, it is thought that 20 to 50 percent of people have pre-existing conditions that could be denied coverage on the pre-ACA independent market (most emplyer group plans did not prohibit pre existing conditions, after all, who would hire on with an employer that refused to cover your condition?).
15% of the population are in the individual policy marketplace, so 20 to 50 percent of 15% pop is a good number of millions of citizens. you do the math!

mtgoat666 - 12-17-2013 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
You just can't fix stupid. :lol:

You betcha :lol:

in the USA, our right to be stupid is protected by the constitution and the bill of rights!

yahoo! :lol:

(p.s. i think mexico protects the rights of the stupid too!)

DavidE - 12-17-2013 at 03:11 PM

I guess some of you need to visit an emergency room to see for yourself how many indocumentos happen to be waiting. I am assuming when I get frustrated at the inability of emergency room patients to communicate in a timely fashion because they do not espeak Ingles that they are indocumentos.

Many young women waiting, obviously "in a maternity way" to be seen. They will give birth to a native US citizen. Would any part of the new law exclude these charity cases from eligibility. I have heard nothing that says they were be excluded from no-cost health care.

I can only wish Mexico had Mexicans fighting for the rights of gringos. I had to become a citizen to obtain rights and even then there are limitations.

I can barely wait (I think) for the moment to arrive when "absorbed" Mexicans vote the gringo do-gooders out of office in favor of someone with Mexican descent.

People are soooooooo naive about Mexicanos y Mexico.

Paula - 12-17-2013 at 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I guess some of you need to visit an emergency room to see for yourself how many indocumentos happen to be waiting. I am assuming when I get frustrated at the inability of emergency room patients to communicate in a timely fashion because they do not espeak Ingles that they are indocumentos.

Many young women waiting, obviously "in a maternity way" to be seen. They will give birth to a native US citizen. Would any part of the new law exclude these charity cases from eligibility. I have heard nothing that says they were be excluded from no-cost health care.

I can only wish Mexico had Mexicans fighting for the rights of gringos. I had to become a citizen to obtain rights and even then there are limitations.

I can barely wait (I think) for the moment to arrive when "absorbed" Mexicans vote the gringo do-gooders out of office in favor of someone with Mexican descent.

People are soooooooo naive about Mexicanos y Mexico.

David, do you work in an emergency room, or do you visit them frequently?

angry white man talking

mtgoat666 - 12-17-2013 at 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I can barely wait (I think) for the moment to arrive when "absorbed" Mexicans vote the gringo do-gooders out of office in favor of someone with Mexican descent.

USA citizens of mexican descent are gringos. seems you are saying you only want whites of euro descent in elected office.

JoeJustJoe - 12-17-2013 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

David E while you're in an emergency room counting "indocumentos" do you ask to see their papers, or you just assume because they're of Latino decent, they're here in America illegally, and are freeloading?

David why would you get frustrated if the patients speak Spanish? That sounds like you have a personal problem.

You want Mexicans fighting for the rights of Gringos in Mexico?

If I recall the Mexican border is very porous, and anybody could just walk or drive in Mexico, anytime they want. However, Mexicans can't drive and walk into the USA side anytime they want without going through immigration red tape, and really an unfair immigration system to certain people from certain countries.

There are of course immigration laws in Mexico that Gringos are supposed to follow if they plan on living in Mexico, like income level, but many of those requirements are ignored, and there are a lot Americans living in Mexico, illegally, but you don't hear Mexicans complaining about that.

oxxo - 12-17-2013 at 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I guess some of you need to visit an emergency room to see for yourself how many indocumentos happen to be waiting.

I agree with you, just throw the nasty brown vermin out into the gutter and let them die there. That's what the Prince of Peace would have done. And Merry Christmas to you too.

Quote:

I am assuming when I get frustrated at the inability of emergency room patients to communicate in a timely fashion because they do not espeak Ingles that they are indocumentos.

When I went to the emergency room in Mexico, they spoke to me in English.

Quote:

Many young women waiting, obviously "in a maternity way" to be seen. They will give birth to a native US citizen. Would any part of the new law exclude these charity cases from eligibility. I have heard nothing that says they were be excluded from no-cost health care.

You, Shirley, are not suggesting that these many young women obviously "in a maternity way" should abort their children? You favor abortion, sending these children to a death panel? This is heavy stuff!

Quote:

I can only wish Mexico had Mexicans fighting for the rights of gringos.

Aren't the Mexicans fighting to eliminate Fideicomiso requirement for Gringos? What kind of rights do you want them to fight for?

Quote:

I had to become a citizen to obtain rights and even then there are limitations.

You mean you can't run for President of Mexico? !Que lastima!

Quote:

I can barely wait (I think) for the moment to arrive when "absorbed" Mexicans vote the gringo do-gooders out of office in favor of someone with Mexican descent.

You mean like the Kenyans in the US did for President and the Canadians in Texas did for Ted Cruz and the Cubans in Miami did for Marco Rubio and the Panamanians in Arizona did for McCain and the mentally challenged did in Alaska for Para Salin'?

Quote:

People are soooooooo naive about Mexicanos y Mexico.

Some people are soooooooo bigoted about Mexicanos y Mexico.

absinvestor - 12-17-2013 at 06:39 PM

oxxo-I think we have agreed to disagree on the overall effectiveness of the ACA. However, in your last response to me you again referred to my kids plans as junk plans. I would agree that there are some parts of the ACA that are better ie no limit vs 5million $ limit. However many of the people that had what you call junk plans had what they wanted that they could afford. For example I have another acquaintance that received a notice that his plan is being cancelled. He has 2 teenage children and a wife. He pays $359/mo for a plan that has a 2 million deductible. It covers some basic preventative care and most everything else over his deductible. It has a 2500 person deductible ($5000 family.) The 2 million might not cover a long illness but would cover a heart attack, broken leg etc. He is a plumber for a small company and his wife is a secretary for a church. They have had the same plan for 5 years. Over the 5 years his premiums have increased from 280/mo to the current $359/mo. His policy has a guaranteed renewal feature. Neither employer offers health insurance. The cheapest plan he can find under the ACA is 906/mo with a $5000 deductible-$10000 family. They have never worked for a company with any retirement benefits but for the last 3 years they have scraped and been able to put $2500 each year into an IRA. His comment to me was that he considered the ACA to be a junk plan because of a high deductible and because he can't afford it. Between his house payment and payment on his 4 year old truck they are lucky to have enough to take the family to a night out to a movie. Granted his plan is not as good as the ACA but he purchased the most he could afford . He is now forced to walk to work, miss house payments, try to get an additional part time job or go without insurance. He believes that the ACA has forced him to put his family at total risk by having no health insurance. Let me reiterate that he would love to have the additional coverage but a)he doesn't have the ability to pay the higher premium and b) he has a deductible that is double his current deductible. Most reasonable people would not say that his policy is a junk policy.
Unfortunately he is not alone. Honestly the ACA appears to be hurting as many as it is helping.

A Republican Plan

Bajaboy - 12-17-2013 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
dali....please put them out there for ALL TO SEE.

I find it fascinating that my google search engine pops up a whole passle of hits on conservative health plans while others struggle or just are too lazy to do their own inquiries.....or could it be they don't want to admit that conservatives do have proposals and want to squash the information?
And my search terms were not all that creative......it was something to do with Republican healthcare plans.

There are articles from CBS news, Bloomberg, Forbes, LA Times, Policymic and Politifact among others.
Imagine that....not ONE from Fox news....but I only looked at the first page of the google search.
Yet MSNBC has one that is a detractor....who would have known? And on the top of the page no less.
No telling what lies beyond on page 2.

For a hint, and you and others can do the rest...Doctor/legislator Tom Price R-GA.

Disclaimer:....I don't have any comments on the workings of any of those plans and my sole intent here is to point out that there are other ideas out there, beyond what liberals can put up, and what they want you to believe...... that there are none.

[Edited on 12-17-2013 by DaliDali]

I found a Republican Plan like DiliDali proprosed:

http://ivn.us/2013/09/27/obamacare-was-originally-proposed-b...

oxxo - 12-17-2013 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
For example I have another acquaintance that received a notice that his plan is being cancelled. ...........Granted his plan is not as good as the ACA but he purchased the most he could afford . ............He believes that the ACA has forced him to put his family at total risk by having no health insurance. Let me reiterate that he would love to have the additional coverage but a)he doesn't have the ability to pay the higher premium and b) he has a deductible that is double his current deductible. Most reasonable people would not say that his policy is a junk policy.

His plan is a junk plan because it doesn't include pre-existing conditions, maternity, pediatric dentistry, unlimited coverage, etc. Even you say his plan was not as good as the ACA plan. I don't understand why he says that he now has no insurance. And if he is as destitute as you indicate, the ACA is "means tested." He can qualify for a subsidy if he cannot afford his ACA policy. For example Faux Gnus, featured a black woman who said that her $75 per month pre-ACA insurance was being cancelled and she was going to forced to purchase a better ACA policy at $300 per month which she couldn't afford. Terrible isn't it? Well after her appearance on Faux Gnus she was notified by ACA that she qualified for a $250 per month subsidy. Her net cost was now going to $50 per month for a superior plan than the $75 per month junk plan that was cancelled. She called Faux Gnus to say that she wanted to go back on camera to correct the record. She was now a huge supporter of the ACA. Faux Gnus said they were not interested. So she went on MSNBC and told the story. ABS you tell an interesting, compelling story, but we are not getting the whole story.

Quote:

Unfortunately he is not alone. Honestly the ACA appears to be hurting as many as it is helping.

That statement is not supported by the facts I have seen. What is your source or is it just opinion?

[Edited on 12-18-2013 by oxxo]

Barry A. - 12-17-2013 at 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
In some cases, it is possible to "buy" unearned quarters of service in a lump sum payment to Soc Sec.

I have heard this from a couple of sources and been able to find no supporting information. This could be a life-changer for me; You happen to know the specifics, or where to find them?

-----------or you can work part-time at say a Library or something similar until you have accumulated the quarters. I too have never found any other way to do it, so am also curious as to what Oxxo was talking about-------I hope he is correct.

Barry

bajacalifornian - 12-18-2013 at 04:55 AM

Just wondering how other expats are thinking about the pending Obamacare coverage?

I agree with Barbara Bellar, Candidate for State Senate who writes:

“So, let me get this straight (this is a long sentence), we’re going to be gifted with a healthcare plan we are forced to purchase, and fined if we don’t, which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a congress that didn’t read it, but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, for which we will be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that’s broke. So what the blank could possibly go wrong?”

A Mexican, I enjoy humor from across the fence.

Mula - 12-18-2013 at 06:17 AM

Good one, Jeff!

Bajajorge - 12-18-2013 at 09:48 AM

Affordable Healthcare Act, is slowly going to become unaffordable. My health insurance premium went up $25.00 per month. My wifes went up $39.00 per month. All this since the inception of this new welfare program.

oxxo - 12-18-2013 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajacalifornian
I agree with Barbara Bellar, Candidate for State Senate who writes:

“So what the blank could possibly go wrong?”

American by birth, Mexican by choice.
Jeff Petersen

So you bailed on the US and you have no stake in the ACA? I will file your opinion in the appropriate file.

Bellar asks what could go wrong? Well she could be elected to office is what go wrong. She is incorrect in most of the points in her "humorous", snarky statement. She is running for a State office and commenting on a Federal program and fails to propose how she would care for the uninsured in her State. And she has been untruthful in her qualifications as nun, MD, and attorney. http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/news/kadner/15906477-452/k...

Barry A. - 12-18-2013 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

One comment on-line in response to that cited article:

Larry Wilson-NEW-74 days ago:

"Wow. I wish we could find out that much detail about the sitting President in the sum of every article that has ever been written about him, let alone one lone and minutia-dissecting piece like this."

That echos my initial feelings too. This article would not, in itself, keep me from voting for her.

Barry

Cypress - 12-18-2013 at 10:15 AM

If Obamacare is so great why the waivers, exemptions, etc.? Regarding the truthfulness of Barbara Bellar. What about the big one, "If you like your insurance you can keep it". Liberals are very selective when it comes to pointing out a lie.

Bajaboy - 12-18-2013 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
If Obamacare is so great why the waivers, exemptions, etc.? Regarding the truthfulness of Barbara Bellar. What about the big one, "If you like your insurance you can keep it". Liberals are very selective when it comes to pointing out a lie.

From my understanding, many of the policies were "cancelled" because the terms of the contract were changed. Thus, a new contract had to be created to include the new provisions of the health care law.

Were you as upset when we found out there were no WMDs? :?:

I didn't think so...

oxxo - 12-18-2013 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge
Affordable Healthcare Act, is slowly going to become unaffordable. My health insurance premium went up $25.00 per month. My wifes went up $39.00 per month. All this since the inception of this new welfare program.

Now was the cost increase due to ACA or your insurance company raising their premiums because costs have gone up? Should doctors and hospitals freeze their rates just so your premiums don't go up?

mtgoat666 - 12-18-2013 at 12:11 PM

Quote:

$25 and $39/month is a VERY small increase. Rarely seen a smaller increase over past decade. Sounds like ObamaCare is pretty good for your pocketbook

Barry A. - 12-18-2013 at 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
or you can work part-time at say a Library or something similar until you have accumulated the quarters. I too have never found any other way to do it,

Did you actually end up doing that?

Esoteric but related question: Say one doesn't have enough credits upon reaching 65, at which point he starts in on Medicare in the normal signup dates by paying the full part A premiums, while at the same time continuing to accumulate quarters by working at his friendly local library. Once he reaches 40 quarters, does Social Security then take over paying the part A premiums? :?:

I did not do this, but my Aunt did (I always thought that was sorta greedy as she did not need it). Unfortunately I am not sure of the details, so can't answer your questions. I personally never bothered to get the remaining quarters for SS because I did not need the money, and I always believed that SS was for those who needed it (apparently not the case, tho?!?!?!?).

I am short 5 or 6 quarters, I think (maybe less?) for collecting SS. I preferred to stop working rather than continue working in the private sector to get those last few quarters, and because of my life-long (40+ years) investments I was in good shape, money-wise.

Barry

Pescador - 12-18-2013 at 04:39 PM

Okay, let’s see if we can agree on some basics here. The discussion, as most discussion on this forum take an immediate political twist and that certainly clouds the whole issue. First and foremost, Insurance is nothing more than collecting money from a large number of people, paying claims as well as expenses. On that basis, a one payer system would make a lot of sense. Collect money from all the people in a group, say the US citizens, and then pay all claims and expenses. If you had a really bad year with lots of expenses, then you would have to raise the premiums the following year to catch up or meet your expenses.
Here is where the issue starts to get cloudy. Who exactly should most effectively collect the fees and disburse the monies. If you are on the left side of the politic al spectrum as a lot of readers who have been weighing in here are, you think that the government is the logical choice. For those us who lean to the right who think that government is the problem instead of the solution, that thought scares the living daylights out of you. The government has yet to run anything efficiently, smoothly and for the lowest cost. They can’t even develop a web site that functions even though they have spent 623 million on the development and it is common knowledge about how much fraud and abuse has been present in the medicare and Medicaid delivery.
Insurance actuaries have spent years chasing cause and effect and have tried to stay ahead of the ball in terms of money coming in (premiums) and money going out (claims). Insurance companies have done some real crystal ball gazing and over a 10 year period they have averaged 1.5 to 4% profit margin. I don’t know how you could get it any closer than that. Of course they made money, that is how they pay back their investors. Now if the government were going to be a big actuary and collect all the premiums and pay out equal amounts in claims we would potentially have a successful system, but no, they throw in the income redistribution part of this law. Where the poor pay very little, if anything and the rich pay through the nose, and what we find is a grand scheme for income redistribution not health care delivery.
At least Mexico was more honest when they developed Seguros Popular. If you applied you were covered, period, but the bad news was that there was no more money than there had been before and certainly no more doctors or physical facilities, and no more prescription medications in the system. But at the political meetings they could brag to everyone that they had provided coverage for all the people of Mexico.

Jaybo - 12-18-2013 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Oxxo, you are right that consumer reports and for the most part consumers are happy with a closed system HMO but that system is not for everyone. For run of the mill general medicine, Kaiser has proven itself to run efficiently and effectively. But when you get into the truly complicated situations that require the expertise of MD Anderson, Mayo Clinic, Cancer Centers of America, what you find is that there is another step above and beyond. For the average person, that is an acceptable delivery and works very well, but in many cases (as my many years as a health insurance broker taught me), it is impossible to say that it is the right solution for everyone.

Yeah except that it has been reported that those high end hospitals won't be part of Obamacare covered facilities. Those will be left for the rich and the ruling class of folks. The rest of us will be going to Joe's Bait Shop and Surgery Center

Barry A. - 12-18-2013 at 04:50 PM

Oxxo said above, "Barry and I are much alike except that I am a conservative and Barry is an ultra-conservative."

:lol:

Yeah, right!!! Well, he is partially right, I guess. I have been drifting over into the "ultra-Conservative camp" from years as a fairly moderate Conservative due to what I consider just nutty policies and laws being formed by this Administration, and you know what they are as they are commented on almost daily. Lots of great ideas (and many not so great) from the Democrat camp, but they won't do the hard job of prioritising the Budget to even approach paying for them with the income they already have. As we righties often say, "there is a spending problem in DC, not an income problem!!! ". And NOW, they invite the lightning-rod, John Podesta back into the advising fold who will just compound the problems, IMO. What Folly!!!!

Barry

Cypress - 12-19-2013 at 03:49 AM

Currently living in MS, the fishing and hunting is great. An yes there's no shortage of unwed mothers. Know at least 4 young women that fit that description, all white. Half of 'em are still with their child's father and they take advantage of all the govt. freebees. Obamacare? Guess it all boils down to freedom of choice. For an outfit that's all for "freedom of choice" this whole Obamacare debacle exposes the liberal view. They're for freedom of choice if they're the ones providing the choice.

MitchMan - 12-19-2013 at 08:10 AM

Sure, Cypress, we all ultimately have the choice to return to Pre-Obamacare health insurance options with less and less coverage and perpetual annual premium increases of at least 10% with no end in sight, 45 million Americans with no coverage, prohibition of coverage for those with pre-existing conditions and no incentives for the health industry to modernize and become efficient. In fact, if you really want to, you can start on your own right now.

BTW, be advised that the free market does not provide any guarantee that it will provide affordable healthcare or affordable health insurance for all Americans. Same goes for the free market determination of a minimum wage; no guarantee that such a minimum wage would be a living wage.

Do you have any idea what a heart bypass surgery and hospital stay costs? You have the choice of not getting ins coverage and to depend on the free market price for such a service. Go ahead, make the choice.

[Edited on 12-19-2013 by MitchMan]

Cypress - 12-19-2013 at 10:39 AM

Mighty fine feeling to watch the sun rise up over the marsh, deciding whether to go fishing or hunting while dinking around on the computer. Could be a good thing that a vast number of people cling to the old misconceptions about Dixieland. They would probably be very unhappy here. :biggrin:

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