BajaNomad

Mexico denies asylum to migrant children

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wessongroup - 7-29-2014 at 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
It's all so simple. Our government, with it's extensive experience in creating jobs at home can send a team of experts [start with Nancy P, John B and Harry R] to Central America to give guidance to the heathens. They'll be saying the Pledge of Allegiance in no time at all.
[Edited on 7-29-2014 by DENNIS]


How about sending the entire legislative and executive branches of OUR government ....

They apparently aren't very busy accomplishing anything of importance at the moment ... or long term ... what do we have to lose

Oh yeah, Sept .. we go into melt down over funding the Government again . this should really be good .. just before NOV ...

Hang in there .. where else ya gonna go :):)

BajaGringo - 7-29-2014 at 07:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncampion
Ok, so just how many of these people can we take? One billion, two billion? where do you stop??

Some figures from the United Nations Development Programme:

More than a billion people live with less than a dollar per day.
2.8 billion people, that is to say almost half of the global population, live with less than 2 dollars per day.
448 million children are underweight.
876 million adults are illiterate, two thirds of which are women.
Every day, 30,000 children under 5 die from avoidable diseases.
More than a billion people don’t have access to healthy water.


What you are driving at with those questions, really won't matter in the end. I have been asking this bigger question for years now...

How do we avoid going to a global standard of living in a global economy?

The real answer is, in the end we can't. The current humanitarian crisis scenario currently being played out at our southern border is a symptom of the bigger and growing problem looming. Like waves crashing on this seashore and tomorrow on the other side of the Pacific, the long term effects will move back and forth until eventually water seeks its own level. This is going to get worse before it can ever begin to get better. A lot of people refuse to accept the reality of the mess we are in but it won't change the unavoidable outcome.

Or maybe not...

Coming soon to a theater near you.

ncampion - 7-29-2014 at 07:21 PM

Ron, you make my point. We can't affect the global poor population by taking them into this country, we would only be bringing our country down to their level. I don't pretend to offer a solution like so many on this board, I'm only pointing out some facts. Check out this video, it's from a few years ago, but the facts are only more important today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

.

Bajalover - 7-29-2014 at 08:41 PM

Did anyone read Dennis's Post ?? These kids in the article are Rejected from Mexico.....Mexico.....not the USA. So why rant and rave about the kids illegally here. Most of them will end up staying here and be taken care of with or without everyones' complaints. Watching Utube videos, etc are things posted to alert the population that is already bias and most of the folks reading or listening to these things are jaded and somewhat immune to these debates. The crazy politicians will just dip into our pockets to grab some more cash to take care of them.......what else is new ? Enjoy the popcorn.

dtbushpilot - 7-30-2014 at 06:30 AM

Perhaps knowledge of charitable organizations isn't your strong suit.


Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
Maybe the Catholic Church, which is the villain in many cases, should fork up some of its more than 30 billion dollars to help the children of the world which they encouraged to pro-create and then abuse.



Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
I couldn't agree more, redmesa!

they want to protect the unborn but as soon as they are born, they wash their hands!

off topic rant.....And ya know what really irks me is when I drive by a Church, like say the ones in my town, and they have land around the church, big grassy areas, and instead of turning those into community food gardens for those who need food, or donate that food to the food banks, they just leave the land grass. So yeah lets let families struggle, kids go without 3 meals a day, and pass the buck onto the rest of society.

The Catholic church does many good things, but let's see them step up for these refugee kids!

Juan Williams last night said on the O'Reilly show, which I don't watch but caught on video this morning on HuffPo, we could put say 20 of these rufugee kids in each state and that wouldn't be such a strain on just one State. Surely each state can handle a few kids!



Perhaps math isn't Juan Williams' strong suit either, "20 kids in each state"? That will cover a day or two.....




[Edited on 7-30-2014 by dtbushpilot]

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by dtbushpilot]

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by dtbushpilot]

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by dtbushpilot]

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 07:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajalover
Did anyone read Dennis's Post ?? These kids in the article are Rejected from Mexico.....Mexico.....not the USA.


Thanks. I tried, and tried, and tried to redirect this berserk US bashing thread back to it's original intent, but some here just won't allow an opportunity to rant and rave against the US to go by unanswered.
Pretty effing pathetic really, when you think about it.

What's even more pathetic is that they won't listen to you either.

MMc - 7-30-2014 at 07:52 AM

Get out of my way Dennis, I have a agenda hear and you wont stand in my way of spouting:lol::o:lol::mad:

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MMc
Get out of my way Dennis, I have a agenda hear and you wont stand in my way of spouting:lol::o:lol::mad:


That's about it, fer sure. a little bit of venting can be healthy, I suppose, but the "Let's spend everybody else's money" crowd can be really monotonous. :lol:

David K - 7-30-2014 at 08:52 AM

If the USA 'must' help, then why not make THEIR country better instead of leaving it to come here???

If they want our style of government or freedom (free enterprise) then change their country to make it more like ours instead of abandoning it.

Mexico says no to its neighbors, yet allows them to conduit through to the USA. Is that because we have SUCKER written on our border?

What is a border anyway? Sure not one to force people through a legal crossing here. The Border Patrol, pulled away from the border to allow this invasion, is that right?

Does any other country welcome illegal border crossers and pay to house them after they violate our border. Then try to figure out how they can stay here... and then bring their parents north??? What suckers we are!!

Costa Rica isn't losing their population. So, what is wrong with Honduras and Guatemala that they cannot adopt the same freedoms as their neighbor and keep their future (children) home?

Make those countries be responsible to their people and not give them a refuge so the problem at their home remains unsolved.

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 08:58 AM

"Fear, ignorance and propaganda. The problem is of course a refugee issue, not unlike those fleeing battle fields around the world. FOX and the Republican Party have confabulated the issue of border security with the issue of these child refugees. This is a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions and a shame of the face of the US for these people acting this way. We have absorbed way more people than this in the past from countries undergoing genocide etc. i.e. Haiti etc. The US bombing of Iraq created some 2 million refuges that have sought asylum in neighboring countries. The circumstances in the countries where these children are coming from is so desperate that mothers are sending their children across up to 4 very dangerous countries in order to shelter them. Honduras has become the narcotrafficing hub in South America, replacing Colombia. Children aged 11 are now forced to take drugs in school and then are forced into drug trafficking by the Cartels who then train them to be assassins. The lawlessness creates a very dangerous situation for little girls who are in great danger of becoming part of the Cartel controlled sex trade. These are very, very dangerous places for children. The Cartels now rule in these countries and this is the fall out." a quote from a friend.

bajagrouper - 7-30-2014 at 09:02 AM

Daviid, Maybe Mexico and the USA would not would not be having this problem if
ex-presadent Bush had not signed that immigration law...Too bad FOX news does not interview him, wonder what he would say,LOL

bajaguy - 7-30-2014 at 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Is there anything good coming from these people in government (non-government employees only please answer)?





Uh, yeah......they are redistributing my wealth

monoloco - 7-30-2014 at 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Obama has been in power for 6 years and the Democrat congress for 8 years, yet we still are hearing it is Bush's fault...

I really will enjoy when grown-ups are running things again.

This country is in the worse shape ever, and the world is falling apart. Russia is laughing at us. The VA is killing our vets. Full time employment is a thing of the past. Is there anything good coming from these people in government (non-government employees only please answer)?
A presidents actions can have long term consequences, hell, we're still suffering from the mistakes of Woodrow Wilson. We will likely be paying for the mistakes of the last few administrations for many, many years, and not just Bush. As long as we have a political system where the narcissist who raises the most money gets to lead, nothing will change.

bajagrouper - 7-30-2014 at 09:37 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/us/immigrant-surge-rooted-...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/02/immigra...

monoloco - 7-30-2014 at 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K


Costa Rica isn't losing their population. So, what is wrong with Honduras and Guatemala that they cannot adopt the same freedoms as their neighbor and keep their future (children) home?

Make those countries be responsible to their people and not give them a refuge so the problem at their home remains unsolved.
Many of the problems in those countries, as well as El Salvador and Nicaragua, were created by over 100 years of the US propping up corrupt despotic dictators who stole most of the valuable land and resources, divided it up amongst their cronies, and reduced the majority of the population to serfs. It's another example of how our actions can have long term consequences.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
"Fear, ignorance and propaganda. The problem is of course a refugee issue, not unlike those fleeing battle fields around the world. FOX and the Republican Party have confabulated the issue of border security with the issue of these child refugees. This is a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions and a shame of the face of the US for these people acting this way.


That would be true if it were the whole picture, but it isn't. in my thoughts, it's an economic issue. The US economy, next to the Mexican and Central American economy, are like oil and water. They won't mix.
When, and if the southern economies raise to a point near our level, we could open the border and get by all of this boolsht, but until that time, separate worlds have to remain separated if we want to maintain our standard of living.

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 09:58 AM

But keep in mind that children from Nicaragua are not leaving in the same large numbers. An in-depth news report I heard on the radio, FWIW, stated the reason is because Nicaragua has an effective police force, making it a safer place.

The children are fleeing their homes because it's not safe in El Salvador, etc.

And that makes sending them back a big problem.

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by SFandH]

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 10:07 AM

I also think Mexico has a lot responsibility for this problem. It's not hard to police the trains the migrants ride to get to the US border. It's a good bet you can find the trains on the railroad tracks.

BajaLuna - 7-30-2014 at 10:23 AM

"The Republicans don't seem to want to work on immigration, until it comes to deporting children"!

That was a statement from George Will, who was recently on a fox news panel on this subject, so hellooooo lets not just put this all in Obama's court for doing nothing about this!

Of course you can't find this panel's video on Fox news, LOL! But it's out there!

BajaLuna - 7-30-2014 at 10:26 AM

Not a whole lot of good is coming from either party, DavidK!

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 10:27 AM

I think any post that includes the words Republican or Democrat should be made in the Off Topic section. The partisan argument is endless.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH

The children are fleeing their homes because it's not safe in El Salvador, etc.



I'm having trouble with this as well. What we're seeing is a mass exodus worthy of penguins. This has been orchestrated as well as supported by Mexico, and the migrants are going toward a promised reward without stopping on the way to find refuge.
There would have to be social chaos equal to the bombing of Beirut to cause a bail-out of this magnitude, but we hear and see nothing other than the seemingly rehearsed claims of the migrants.

wessongroup - 7-30-2014 at 10:32 AM

Music for reflection ... on things


BajaLuna - 7-30-2014 at 10:33 AM

These REFUGEE kids have the right to appear in court, so give them their due process, sheesh! 20 have been released now to report to court in Texas. Yayyy!

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
The children are fleeing their homes because it's not safe in El Salvador, etc.




Yeah...right. these kids are just walking out the door saying, "I'm outta here" and heading for Chicago.

I'm hoping that soon the "Wake-up bell' will go off around here and everyone will try to see the whole picture. It's not that well hidden.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
These REFUGEE kids have the right to appear in court, so give them their due process, sheesh! 20 have been released now to report to court in Texas. Yayyy!



They wouldn't want to be late, would they.

Go back to sleep.

wessongroup - 7-30-2014 at 10:39 AM

SF 16 + ..

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
The partisan argument is endless.


As well as senseless.

BajaLuna - 7-30-2014 at 10:40 AM

good post, redmesa!!!!

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
These REFUGEE kids have the right to appear in court


It's a privilege...not a right. The Constitution never foresaw this nightmare coming.

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH

The children are fleeing their homes because it's not safe in El Salvador, etc.



I'm having trouble with this as well. What we're seeing is a mass exodus worthy of penguins. This has been orchestrated as well as supported by Mexico, and the migrants are going toward a promised reward without stopping on the way to find refuge.
There would have to be social chaos equal to the bombing of Beirut to cause a bail-out of this magnitude, but we hear and see nothing other than the seemingly rehearsed claims of the migrants.


Could be. But the high murder rates in these countries point to an extremely dangerous climate.

I've watched interviews of several of the children where they explained the danger. They seemed genuine to me......but??

Mexico is complicit. Kicking the can down the railroad tracks.

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by SFandH]

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
These REFUGEE kids have the right to appear in court


It's a privilege...not a right. The Constitution never foresaw this nightmare coming.


Currently, it's the law.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH

Could be. But the high murder rates in these countries point to an extremely dangerous climate.



Where do you get these damning numbers? Who's counting? From the alarming sound of things, a body count is out of the question.
If these Banana Republics are so chaotic, why isn't the good for nothing UN with their BS children's fund stepping in to mediate the blood-bath?
Why does all this sheit end up at our doorstep?
Maybe our escalating minimum wage has something to do with it...wadda you think?




.

[Edited on 7-30-2014 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
These REFUGEE kids have the right to appear in court


It's a privilege...not a right. The Constitution never foresaw this nightmare coming.


Currently, it's the law.


Laws guarantee privileges as well as rights. Rights are stated in the constitution.

DianaT - 7-30-2014 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
If the USA 'must' help, then why not make THEIR country better instead of leaving it to come here???

If they want our style of government or freedom (free enterprise) then change their country to make it more like ours instead of abandoning it.

Mexico says no to its neighbors, yet allows them to conduit through to the USA. Is that because we have SUCKER written on our border?

What is a border anyway? Sure not one to force people through a legal crossing here. The Border Patrol, pulled away from the border to allow this invasion, is that right?

Does any other country welcome illegal border crossers and pay to house them after they violate our border. Then try to figure out how they can stay here... and then bring their parents north??? What suckers we are!!

Costa Rica isn't losing their population. So, what is wrong with Honduras and Guatemala that they cannot adopt the same freedoms as their neighbor and keep their future (children) home?

Make those countries be responsible to their people and not give them a refuge so the problem at their home remains unsolved.


1. If you ever lived in Central America and or studied their history, you would know that the history for each country is very different and they are very different today. And please, trying to force our government style on any other country is a very naive jingoistic statement.

2. Jordan is a very poor nation and they are accepting refugees everyday and doing all they can to take care of them.

3. These children are REFUGEES---and that is different.

4. So to punish these countries for not getting their acts together after the meddling by the US really left them in a mess, you want to send refugee children back to certain violence and possibly death.

5. I am guessing you would have also pushed to reject the St. Louis when it arrived at the shores of the US?

The violence was terrible when we lived in Honduras and it is worse now. It is a shame that we are not taught the history of these Central American countries. And comparing Costa Rica to Honduras is a real apples and orange comparison. VERY different



Time to tear down Lady Liberty.

BajaGringo - 7-30-2014 at 11:24 AM

From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...

WHAT REALLY DROVE THE CHILDREN NORTH

By Mary Anastasia O'Grady | The Wall Street Journal
Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm

In a nation where it is not uncommon to hear the other side of the Rio Grande referred to as “South America,” it is amusing to observe the recent wave of self-anointed experts in the U.S. opining authoritatively on the causes of child migration from Central America.

Some of these are talking heads of conservative punditry who seem to know zip about the region and show no interest in learning. They wing it, presumably because they believe their viewers and listeners will never know the truth and don’t care. What matters is proving that the large number of unaccompanied minors piling up at the border is President Barack Obama’s fault for somehow signaling that they would not be turned back. The origins of the problem are deemed unimportant, and the fate of the children gets even less attention.

Thank heaven for four-star Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who knows something about war and failed states and now heads the U.S. military’s Southern Command, which keeps an eye on the region. He has spent time studying the issue and is speaking up. Conservatives might not like his conclusions, in which the U.S. bears significant responsibility, but it is hard to accuse a four-star of a “blame America first” attitude.

To make the “Obama did it” hypothesis work, it is necessary to defeat the claim that the migrants are fleeing intolerable violence. This has given rise to the oft-repeated line that “those countries” have always been very violent.

That is patently untrue. Central America is significantly more dangerous than it was before it became a magnet for rich, powerful drug capos. Back in the early 1990s, drugs from South America flowed through the Caribbean to the U.S. But when a U.S. interdiction strategy in the Caribbean raised costs, trafficking shifted to land routes up the Central American isthmus and through Mexico. With Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s war on the cartels, launched in 2007, the underworld gradually slithered toward the poorer, weaker neighboring countries. Venezuela, under Hugo Chávez, began facilitating the movement of cocaine from producing countries in the Andes to the U.S., also via Central America.

In a July 8 essay in the Military Times headlined “Central America Drug War a Dire Threat to U.S. National Security,” Gen. Kelly explained that he has spent 19 months “observing the transnational organized crime networks” in the region. His conclusion: “Drug cartels and associated street gang activity in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, which respectively have the world’s number one, four and five highest homicide rates, have left near-broken societies in their wake.” He noted that while he works on this problem throughout the region, these three countries, also known as the Northern Triangle, are “far and away the worst off.”

With a homicide rate of 90 per 100,000 in Honduras and 40 per 100,000 in Guatemala, life in the region is decidedly rougher than “declared combat zones” like Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the general says the rate is 28 per 100,000.

How did the region become a killing field? His diagnosis is that big profits from the illicit drug trade have been used to corrupt public institutions in these fragile democracies, thereby destroying the rule of law. In a “culture of impunity,” the state loses its legitimacy and sovereignty is undermined. Criminals have the financial power to overwhelm the law “due to the insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, particularly cocaine, heroin and now methamphetamines, all produced in Latin America and smuggled into the U.S.”

Gen. Kelly agreed that not all violence in the region is linked to the drug trade with the U.S., but “perhaps 80% of it is.” That’s because of the insidiousness of the vast resources of kingpins. It’s “the malignant effects of immense drug trafficking through these non-consumer nations that is responsible for accelerating the breakdown in their national institutions . . . and eventually their entire society as evidenced today by the flow of children north and out of the conflictive transit zone.”

That migrant children are drawn to the U.S. when they decide to flee might very well have to do with the fact that they believe they will be able to stay because of an asylum law for children passed in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush. But refugees from the Northern Triangle are seeking other havens as well. Marc Rosenblum of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington reports that, from 2008 to 2013, Honduran, Guatemalan and Salvadoran applications for asylum in neighboring countries — mostly Mexico and Costa Rica — are up 712 percent.

Gen. Kelly wrote that the children are “a leading indicator of the negative second- and third-order impacts on our national interests.” Whether the problem can be solved by working harder to bottle up supply, as the general suggested, or requires rethinking prohibition, this crisis was born of American self-indulgence. Solving it starts with taking responsibility for the demand for drugs that fuels criminality.

Mary Anastasia O’Grady is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, where this appeared July 21.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 11:32 AM

I'm getting sick of this conversation. All I know for sure is that charity is a wonderful thing. It's comes from the deepest part of the heart, but when charitable giving is forced upon people, it just becomes another form of tax.

Pardon me if I find that bothersome.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT


Time to tear down Lady Liberty.


The day it was turned into an IOU was the day it should have been torn down.

SFandH - 7-30-2014 at 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I'm getting sick of this conversation. All I know for sure is that charity is a wonderful thing. It's comes from the deepest part of the heart, but when charitable giving is forced upon people, it just becomes another form of tax.

Pardon me if I find that bothersome.


You've made your point.

Here's a question.

The 3.7 billion Obama has requested amounts to one tenth of one percent of the 2013 US budget (3.8 trillion).

Too much??

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH

Too much??


I don't have any idea if it's too much or not. Putting a price on "altruism' is an emotional judgment which I wouldn't be fool enough to make here...or anywhere else people are fishing for argument ammo.

What I do know is the precedent it sets is way over the edge.

BajaLuna - 7-30-2014 at 11:56 AM

great article....Thanks for sharing that, BajaGringo!

MMc - 7-30-2014 at 04:13 PM

What does all this have to do with Mexico sending kids home?

Both sides are guilty! Old Ronnie was the last guy to do something at all. Bush 1, Clinton. Bush 2, and Obama, did not do a thing Both sides could have pushed though reform in ether direction in that time. Both sides have controlled the both houses at one time or another. Obama ran the first time preaching reform and had both houses to do it, but he passed because he had other portieres.
This is about power and staying in power nothing more. Right now the DMC is looking for the Latin vote The RNC is counting on keeping the base and the hoping to get a push from the middle. The Latin vote is big and both sides would love to get it, however they are just tools being used by Washington for it's own gain. This will fade off the news page right after the election. Anything that is in the news that's not world news is just one side or the others spin for power.

Sorry Dennis I have a agenda too ;D;D;D

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 04:15 PM

I have heard from my man in Mexico and they too are worried but the big but is they are taking care of the children.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
I have heard from my man in Mexico and they too are worried but the big but is they are taking care of the children.


Who isn't taking care of the children, other than their own country?

MMc - 7-30-2014 at 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I'm getting sick of this conversation. All I know for sure is that charity is a wonderful thing. It's comes from the deepest part of the heart, but when charitable giving is forced upon people, it just becomes another form of tax.

Pardon me if I find that bothersome.


You've made your point.

Here's a question.

The 3.7 billion Obama has requested amounts to one tenth of one percent of the 2013 US budget (3.8 trillion).

Too much??



To reduce to the ridiculous, the spending of 3.7 BILLION dollars is a statement on it's self.

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 04:55 PM

There is no way to stop global events. We should be ready because closing borders has never worked. EVER!

Bajahowodd - 7-30-2014 at 04:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...

WHAT REALLY DROVE THE CHILDREN NORTH

By Mary Anastasia O'Grady | The Wall Street Journal
Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm

In a nation where it is not uncommon to hear the other side of the Rio Grande referred to as “South America,” it is amusing to observe the recent wave of self-anointed experts in the U.S. opining authoritatively on the causes of child migration from Central America.

Some of these are talking heads of conservative punditry who seem to know zip about the region and show no interest in learning. They wing it, presumably because they believe their viewers and listeners will never know the truth and don’t care. What matters is proving that the large number of unaccompanied minors piling up at the border is President Barack Obama’s fault for somehow signaling that they would not be turned back. The origins of the problem are deemed unimportant, and the fate of the children gets even less attention.

Thank heaven for four-star Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who knows something about war and failed states and now heads the U.S. military’s Southern Command, which keeps an eye on the region. He has spent time studying the issue and is speaking up. Conservatives might not like his conclusions, in which the U.S. bears significant responsibility, but it is hard to accuse a four-star of a “blame America first” attitude.

To make the “Obama did it” hypothesis work, it is necessary to defeat the claim that the migrants are fleeing intolerable violence. This has given rise to the oft-repeated line that “those countries” have always been very violent.

That is patently untrue. Central America is significantly more dangerous than it was before it became a magnet for rich, powerful drug capos. Back in the early 1990s, drugs from South America flowed through the Caribbean to the U.S. But when a U.S. interdiction strategy in the Caribbean raised costs, trafficking shifted to land routes up the Central American isthmus and through Mexico. With Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s war on the cartels, launched in 2007, the underworld gradually slithered toward the poorer, weaker neighboring countries. Venezuela, under Hugo Chávez, began facilitating the movement of cocaine from producing countries in the Andes to the U.S., also via Central America.

In a July 8 essay in the Military Times headlined “Central America Drug War a Dire Threat to U.S. National Security,” Gen. Kelly explained that he has spent 19 months “observing the transnational organized crime networks” in the region. His conclusion: “Drug cartels and associated street gang activity in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, which respectively have the world’s number one, four and five highest homicide rates, have left near-broken societies in their wake.” He noted that while he works on this problem throughout the region, these three countries, also known as the Northern Triangle, are “far and away the worst off.”

With a homicide rate of 90 per 100,000 in Honduras and 40 per 100,000 in Guatemala, life in the region is decidedly rougher than “declared combat zones” like Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the general says the rate is 28 per 100,000.

How did the region become a killing field? His diagnosis is that big profits from the illicit drug trade have been used to corrupt public institutions in these fragile democracies, thereby destroying the rule of law. In a “culture of impunity,” the state loses its legitimacy and sovereignty is undermined. Criminals have the financial power to overwhelm the law “due to the insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, particularly cocaine, heroin and now methamphetamines, all produced in Latin America and smuggled into the U.S.”

Gen. Kelly agreed that not all violence in the region is linked to the drug trade with the U.S., but “perhaps 80% of it is.” That’s because of the insidiousness of the vast resources of kingpins. It’s “the malignant effects of immense drug trafficking through these non-consumer nations that is responsible for accelerating the breakdown in their national institutions . . . and eventually their entire society as evidenced today by the flow of children north and out of the conflictive transit zone.”

That migrant children are drawn to the U.S. when they decide to flee might very well have to do with the fact that they believe they will be able to stay because of an asylum law for children passed in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush. But refugees from the Northern Triangle are seeking other havens as well. Marc Rosenblum of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington reports that, from 2008 to 2013, Honduran, Guatemalan and Salvadoran applications for asylum in neighboring countries — mostly Mexico and Costa Rica — are up 712 percent.

Gen. Kelly wrote that the children are “a leading indicator of the negative second- and third-order impacts on our national interests.” Whether the problem can be solved by working harder to bottle up supply, as the general suggested, or requires rethinking prohibition, this crisis was born of American self-indulgence. Solving it starts with taking responsibility for the demand for drugs that fuels criminality.

Mary Anastasia O’Grady is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, where this appeared July 21.


Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.

That said, this is a very good read.

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 04:57 PM

You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!

Cisco - 7-30-2014 at 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...

WHAT REALLY DROVE THE CHILDREN NORTH

By Mary Anastasia O'Grady | The Wall Street Journal
Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm

In a nation where it is not uncommon to hear the other side of the Rio Grande referred to as “South America,” it is amusing to observe the recent wave of self-anointed experts in the U.S. opining authoritatively on the causes of child migration from Central America.

Some of these are talking heads of conservative punditry who seem to know zip about the region and show no interest in learning. They wing it, presumably because they believe their viewers and listeners will never know the truth and don’t care. What matters is proving that the large number of unaccompanied minors piling up at the border is President Barack Obama’s fault for somehow signaling that they would not be turned back. The origins of the problem are deemed unimportant, and the fate of the children gets even less attention.

Thank heaven for four-star Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who knows something about war and failed states and now heads the U.S. military’s Southern Command, which keeps an eye on the region. He has spent time studying the issue and is speaking up. Conservatives might not like his conclusions, in which the U.S. bears significant responsibility, but it is hard to accuse a four-star of a “blame America first” attitude.

To make the “Obama did it” hypothesis work, it is necessary to defeat the claim that the migrants are fleeing intolerable violence. This has given rise to the oft-repeated line that “those countries” have always been very violent.

That is patently untrue. Central America is significantly more dangerous than it was before it became a magnet for rich, powerful drug capos. Back in the early 1990s, drugs from South America flowed through the Caribbean to the U.S. But when a U.S. interdiction strategy in the Caribbean raised costs, trafficking shifted to land routes up the Central American isthmus and through Mexico. With Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s war on the cartels, launched in 2007, the underworld gradually slithered toward the poorer, weaker neighboring countries. Venezuela, under Hugo Chávez, began facilitating the movement of cocaine from producing countries in the Andes to the U.S., also via Central America.

In a July 8 essay in the Military Times headlined “Central America Drug War a Dire Threat to U.S. National Security,” Gen. Kelly explained that he has spent 19 months “observing the transnational organized crime networks” in the region. His conclusion: “Drug cartels and associated street gang activity in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, which respectively have the world’s number one, four and five highest homicide rates, have left near-broken societies in their wake.” He noted that while he works on this problem throughout the region, these three countries, also known as the Northern Triangle, are “far and away the worst off.”

With a homicide rate of 90 per 100,000 in Honduras and 40 per 100,000 in Guatemala, life in the region is decidedly rougher than “declared combat zones” like Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the general says the rate is 28 per 100,000.

How did the region become a killing field? His diagnosis is that big profits from the illicit drug trade have been used to corrupt public institutions in these fragile democracies, thereby destroying the rule of law. In a “culture of impunity,” the state loses its legitimacy and sovereignty is undermined. Criminals have the financial power to overwhelm the law “due to the insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, particularly cocaine, heroin and now methamphetamines, all produced in Latin America and smuggled into the U.S.”

Gen. Kelly agreed that not all violence in the region is linked to the drug trade with the U.S., but “perhaps 80% of it is.” That’s because of the insidiousness of the vast resources of kingpins. It’s “the malignant effects of immense drug trafficking through these non-consumer nations that is responsible for accelerating the breakdown in their national institutions . . . and eventually their entire society as evidenced today by the flow of children north and out of the conflictive transit zone.”

That migrant children are drawn to the U.S. when they decide to flee might very well have to do with the fact that they believe they will be able to stay because of an asylum law for children passed in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush. But refugees from the Northern Triangle are seeking other havens as well. Marc Rosenblum of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington reports that, from 2008 to 2013, Honduran, Guatemalan and Salvadoran applications for asylum in neighboring countries — mostly Mexico and Costa Rica — are up 712 percent.

Gen. Kelly wrote that the children are “a leading indicator of the negative second- and third-order impacts on our national interests.” Whether the problem can be solved by working harder to bottle up supply, as the general suggested, or requires rethinking prohibition, this crisis was born of American self-indulgence. Solving it starts with taking responsibility for the demand for drugs that fuels criminality.

Mary Anastasia O’Grady is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, where this appeared July 21.


Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.

That said, this is a very good read.


God-Bless Ollie!

chuckie - 7-30-2014 at 05:07 PM

WTF does any of this have to do with MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO not giving refuge??????

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!


Your history book was certainly not talking about Germany, was it.

wessongroup - 7-30-2014 at 05:20 PM

Or Switzerland .... Close but, it passed ... interesting view change from 2000 to 2014 ... appears it was somewhat of a motivator at the polls

"The immigration restriction proposal passed by a narrow margin, with 50.3% of participating voters supporting the measure; the proposal was also approved by the required majority of cantons.[7] The immigration measure requires the Swiss government to either renegotiate the Swiss-EU agreement of free movement of people within three years, or to revoke the agreement. The proposal mandates re-introduction of strict quotas for various immigration categories, and imposes limits on the ability of foreigners to bring in their family members to live in Switzerland, to access Swiss social security benefits, and to request asylum.[8] Opinion polls ahead of the vote showed the lead for the opponents of the immigration measure, but that lead began to close as the day of the referendum approached.[8]
Typical voter turnout in Switzerland is around 40%, and the 55.8% turnout for the February 2014 referendum is considered high.[9]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2014

BajaGringo - 7-30-2014 at 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...


Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.

That said, this is a very good read.



The leading comment was made tongue in cheek. One of the things I dislike about online discussions is that we cannot see each others faces or hear the tone of voice. I probably should have added an emoticon - sorry...

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!


Your history book was certainly not talking about Germany, was it. [/quotehttp://m.thelocal.de//20131126/germany-needs-more-immigration

Cisco - 7-30-2014 at 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
WTF does any of this have to do with MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO not giving refuge??????


Chuckie, check out the film "Sin Nombre" from four or five years ago.

It may give a little bit more historical documentation.

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!



The Berlin Wall?




.

[Edited on 7-31-2014 by DENNIS]

redmesa - 7-30-2014 at 08:10 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.

[Edited on 7-31-2014 by redmesa]

DENNIS - 7-30-2014 at 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.



Well...it had everything in the world to do with this, your original statement:

Originally posted by redmesa
"You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people"

BajaGringo - 7-30-2014 at 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by redmesa
I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.



Well...it had everything in the world to do with this, your original statement:

Originally posted by redmesa
"You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people"


The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people from GETTING OUT of East Germany, not to keep them from getting in.

And even that didn't work all that well. Tens of thousands still managed to get over, under and around the wall, knowing that they would be shot if caught trying. Desperate people do desperate things...




[Edited on 7-31-2014 by BajaGringo]

DENNIS - 7-31-2014 at 08:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people from GETTING OUT of East Germany, not to keep them from getting in.



In...out......directional semantics. The Wall was an effective barrier.
A couple of live mice doesn't mean mouse traps don't work.

David K - 7-31-2014 at 08:21 AM

Walls can work for either direction.

Communism/ Socialism is so bad that walls were built to keep people from escaping it (East Germany, etc.).

Freedom/ Capitalism is so good that walls are built to limit people from pouring into it. (America)

As America continues to decline, the need for walls will also be gone. If we are no longer better than other countries, then nobody will want to come here. Our own president does not believe in American exceptionalism, after all.

DENNIS - 7-31-2014 at 09:23 AM

My detractors here, for lack of an effective argument, will soon be saying I'm suggesting the construction of a wall.
Just to be clear...I'm not.
A first strike offensive is more effective than a desperate defense any day. :biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 7-31-2014 at 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...


Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.

That said, this is a very good read.


Actually, just after I posted, my old brain caught up and realized it was sarcasm.

As this thread continues, I really must make a statement about walls.

The plain and simple fact is that Mexico, our neighbor to the South, is probably the farthest from a hostile nation as one could imagine.

The US has gradually allowed a fringe factor of religious fanatics to gain a grip in the political process. These folks are end-timers, Check that out on your search engines.

The problem is that the oligarchy that has wrested control of this country, who doesn't give a crap about anything or anyone except profits, give funding to these religious fundamentalists,

The top one percent do not believe in nations. They only believe in money. They have no allegiance to any nation. That is our current problem and challenge.

Ateo - 7-31-2014 at 05:28 PM

I call them refugees, not migrants.

DENNIS - 7-31-2014 at 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
I call them refugees, not migrants.


You may not be doing any of them favors. "Refugee" can be hard to qualify and prove.
Not so much for "migrants"... or immigrants.



.

[Edited on 8-1-2014 by DENNIS]

David K - 7-31-2014 at 06:04 PM

They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??

A free Hawaiian vacation for breaking into our country! The Statue of Liberty has a sign taped to her back that reads "Kick Me"!

It was so important for Elian Gonzalez to be torn away from his family by the FBI to be sent back to his father in Cuba, but none of these kids are important enough to be sent back to their parents???


willardguy - 7-31-2014 at 06:15 PM


JoeJustJoe - 7-31-2014 at 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??

A free Hawaiian vacation for breaking into our country! The Statue of Liberty has a sign taped to her back that reads "Kick Me"!

It was so important for Elian Gonzalez to be torn away from his family by the FBI to be sent back to his father in Cuba, but none of these kids are important enough to be sent back to their parents???

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20131111/rs_56...


It looks like David K and Sarah Palin are wrong to blame Obama for the current situation with Central Americans kids coming to the USA. Read about the Bush-era law that led to the Central American kids coming to the USA:
__________________________________________________
How a Bush-Era Law Led to Central American Immigration

As rank-and-file Republicans and some conservative pundits like Sarah Palin call for impeaching President Obama over the Central American child immigration issue, it's worth looking at how the whole thing got started.

Palin contends that President Obama isn't following the law. But perhaps we should read what the law actually is. And it turns out that not only is he following the law, but Republicans were among the ones who put together the bill that's leading to the crisis.

Obama is following the "William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008." Named for the famed English politician who eventually led Great Britain to ban slavery, the law is meant to combat human trafficking. The kids who are trying to enter America are supposed to be detained, and get a fair hearing, to ensure that they aren't victims of human trafficking, a modern-day slavery. The bill covers children from three Latin American countries: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.

The bill was co-sponsored by Republicans are Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida and Chris Smith of New Jersey. It was also co-sponsored by Democrats John Conyers of Michigan, Zoe Lofgren of California, and Bobby Scott of Virginia. The original sponsor was Howard Berman, a California Democrat.

That law was signed by President George W. Bush on December 23, 2008, while most of us were more concerned with the specter of a stock market meltdown and double-digit unemployment. Obama didn't become president until the following month, yet he's being held accountable for this bill supported by the GOP.

read the rest here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tures/how-a-bushera-law...

DENNIS - 7-31-2014 at 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Read about the Bush-era law that led to the Central American kids coming to the USA:
__________________________________________________

The kids who are trying to enter America are supposed to be detained, and get a fair hearing, to ensure that they aren't victims of human trafficking, a modern-day slavery.


When was human trafficking suggested with these kids? I haven't heard anything about this.

BajaRat - 7-31-2014 at 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??


I didn't realize that Mexico had freebies, and now Mexico is flying them to Hawaii :?:

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 02:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaRat
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??


I didn't realize that Mexico had freebies, and now Mexico is flying them to Hawaii :?:

Prolly got it off Palin's new website. Or the new Faux News Toilet Paper: "Wipe Up America!"

chuckie - 8-1-2014 at 03:12 AM

Some people keep getting Mexico confused with the USA. I cant find where George Bush or Obama were ever President of Mexico, musta slipped right by me. I think Mexico should ship em all to Vancouver BC.

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 03:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
Some people keep getting Mexico confused with the USA. I cant find where George Bush or Obama were ever President of Mexico, musta slipped right by me. I think Mexico should ship em all to Vancouver BC.

Ya think, eh? I've always felt that the initials B.C.S. isn't Baja California Sur, but British Columbia South from Oct-Mar (no offense meant). If they all can snowbird down for the winter, let's send some wait-staff north for the summertime.... tit for tat.
;D

[Edited on 8-1-2014 by bajabuddha]

chuckie - 8-1-2014 at 03:43 AM

I love it when you talk dirty....

wessongroup - 8-1-2014 at 06:43 AM

It's Bushes fault ... :lol::lol::lol:

Thanks I needed that one ...

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Read about the Bush-era law that led to the Central American kids coming to the USA:
__________________________________________________

The kids who are trying to enter America are supposed to be detained, and get a fair hearing, to ensure that they aren't victims of human trafficking, a modern-day slavery.


When was human trafficking suggested with these kids? I haven't heard anything about this.



Still waiting, Joe. Fill me in...please.

bajaguy - 8-1-2014 at 07:05 AM

This is interesting............

The bill was co-sponsored by Republicans are Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida and Chris Smith of New Jersey.

It was also co-sponsored by Democrats John Conyers of Michigan, Zoe Lofgren of California, and Bobby Scott of Virginia.

The original sponsor was Howard Berman, a California Democrat.



Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??

A free Hawaiian vacation for breaking into our country! The Statue of Liberty has a sign taped to her back that reads "Kick Me"!

It was so important for Elian Gonzalez to be torn away from his family by the FBI to be sent back to his father in Cuba, but none of these kids are important enough to be sent back to their parents???

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20131111/rs_56...


It looks like David K and Sarah Palin are wrong to blame Obama for the current situation with Central Americans kids coming to the USA. Read about the Bush-era law that led to the Central American kids coming to the USA:
__________________________________________________
How a Bush-Era Law Led to Central American Immigration

As rank-and-file Republicans and some conservative pundits like Sarah Palin call for impeaching President Obama over the Central American child immigration issue, it's worth looking at how the whole thing got started.

Palin contends that President Obama isn't following the law. But perhaps we should read what the law actually is. And it turns out that not only is he following the law, but Republicans were among the ones who put together the bill that's leading to the crisis.

Obama is following the "William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008." Named for the famed English politician who eventually led Great Britain to ban slavery, the law is meant to combat human trafficking. The kids who are trying to enter America are supposed to be detained, and get a fair hearing, to ensure that they aren't victims of human trafficking, a modern-day slavery. The bill covers children from three Latin American countries: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.

The bill was co-sponsored by Republicans are Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida and Chris Smith of New Jersey. It was also co-sponsored by Democrats John Conyers of Michigan, Zoe Lofgren of California, and Bobby Scott of Virginia. The original sponsor was Howard Berman, a California Democrat.

That law was signed by President George W. Bush on December 23, 2008, while most of us were more concerned with the specter of a stock market meltdown and double-digit unemployment. Obama didn't become president until the following month, yet he's being held accountable for this bill supported by the GOP.

read the rest here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tures/how-a-bushera-law...

Timinator - 8-1-2014 at 07:37 AM

What's the deal with Democrats using the Christianity of some Republicans when it suits them but fight against it all other times? That's what happens when you have NO FACTS to argue with.

Fact's are; Republicans give 4x more to charities than Democrats.

Fact; Democrats are fine with lying on tests, lying to their spouses, and lying on their taxes at a rate of 3x more than Republicans do. So, like always, your money isn't where your mouths are unless your lying.

Fact; the Dream Act was suppose to take of this problem 30 years ago. The Democrats LIED, got what they wanted and never built the fence despite being FUNDED.

We'll take care of the kids (Republicans always do) and Christian charities have already stepped up and are doing so. The problem is, Democrats caused this problem, and they are perpetuating it. They are USING these children to further their agenda of obtaining votes through lies and demonizing Republicans and relieving us of, and controlling more of OUR money.

Do you really think these 600 idiots in Washington know more than 200 years of laws and our Constitution? Nancy Peloci couldn't pass a 4th grade test in English, math, science or geography.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 07:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Timinator
Nancy Peloci couldn't pass a 4th grade test in English, math, science or geography.


Democrats are trying to pass a law saying you can't give a test to a baboon.

wessongroup - 8-1-2014 at 08:00 AM

This is an interactive map of demographics from 1940-2000 in Los Angeles

http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/places/maps-a-quick-...

It might be instructive ... as it relates to immigration and this may help in understanding the impact on other poor, who are in fact American Citizens


And I agree with this man's statement ... Just enforce the current laws .... We don't need a re-write of Immigration Laws, rather just enforcement of current laws on same

[Edited on 8-1-2014 by wessongroup]

David K - 8-1-2014 at 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaRat
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They're here for the freebies, by invitation of the democrat party. A group of them was just flown to Hawaii for processing there! Seriously!!??


I didn't realize that Mexico had freebies, and now Mexico is flying them to Hawaii :?:


This web site and me personally are both based in the United States. So when I said 'here', that is the U.S.. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Mexico is much smarter than us and would never do the stupid things we do, like rewarding law breakers. Look at how they deal with the marine driver of a truck cab with weapons and ammo that 'accidently' crossed the border!

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 08:23 AM

" Mexico is much smarter than us and would never do the stupid things we do, like rewarding law breakers."
Are we talking about the same Mexico here??? Hoof-in-mouth disease.

David K - 8-1-2014 at 08:26 AM

I am talking about a Mexico that does not have government officials welcome invaders, give free services to invaders, fly invaders to tropical vacation spots, and allows children to stay in their country without parents... or worse, also invite the parents to join their children!

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 08:31 AM

No. Just accept bribes, buy islands to retire to, sell arms we gave 'em for fighting cartels TO the cartels, stop the flow of these thousands of Central Americans traversing over 1,000 miles of their soverign turf to get here...

SFandH - 8-1-2014 at 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
I am talking about a Mexico that does not have government officials welcome invaders, give free services to invaders, fly invaders to tropical vacation spots, and allows children to stay in their country without parents... or worse, also invite the parents to join their children!


You should make your opinions more well know to the people, or "invaders" as you call them, of Central America.

That should stop them from wanting to come here.

danaeb - 8-1-2014 at 09:07 AM

I wonder if Mexico has the same preferential treatment of Cuban "invaders" that the US does (under the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966).

"Under the CAA, Cubans receive unique and highly favorable treatment, including granting of permanent residency a year after arrival, as well as being eligible for government benefits, such as Medicaid, supplemental social security income, child care, and disability.

No other foreign nationals enjoy these benefits except for the few who are granted political asylum.

The CAA was passed in 1966 to adjust the status of some 300,000 Cubans who found themselves in legal limbo after fleeing Cuba's socialist revolution of 1959. Cuba has railed against it.

These days an average of about 36,000-40,000 Cubans arrive each year. Many are selected by a visa lottery, others come under a family reunification program and there are a handful of political asylum cases. Roughly 10,000 arrive without visas each year, smuggled by boat or via the border with Mexico,"

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by danaeb
I wonder if Mexico has the same preferential treatment of Cuban "invaders" that the US does (under the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966).



Mexico is on good terms with Cuba and doesn't regard the government as oppressive.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by danaeb
others come under a family reunification program and there are a handful of political asylum cases.


The Miami Cuban community is a strong lobby in Washington. They pretty much get what and who they want.

willardguy - 8-1-2014 at 11:45 AM

I say if they put in the work....let em stay!


danaeb - 8-1-2014 at 12:20 PM

Obama won the Cuban Florida vote by a small margin in 2012. But it does reflect the same political shift among millenials in other demographics. Their interests are not the same as their grandparents. The hard-line conservative Cuban base is aging and shrinking.

JoeJustJoe - 8-1-2014 at 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Read about the Bush-era law that led to the Central American kids coming to the USA:
__________________________________________________

The kids who are trying to enter America are supposed to be detained, and get a fair hearing, to ensure that they aren't victims of human trafficking, a modern-day slavery.


When was human trafficking suggested with these kids? I haven't heard anything about this.



Still waiting, Joe. Fill me in...please.


Just because you haven't heard something Dennis, is that suppose to mean something to me?

If you ask me it just means that you're a "Fox News" watcher and not very informed.

Now go do your own research into the current immigration law for central American kids, under the "William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008," that the current Obama administration is acting under, thanks to the law Bush signed in 2008. It doesn't mean that all central American kids are being sexually trafficked, but it is about protecting kids, regardless of citizenship, and it's about due process, and loopholes that are being exploited legally. This is not an easy fix, and the national guard at the border, like what Rick Perry wants to do, is stupid, and just about votes.

Now go do you homework, and you'll even find when the GOP is trying to force Obama to overturn this law, however the immigration advocacy groups are telling Obama, not so fast, what about due process rights of immigrants?

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Now go do you homework, and you'll even find


What I find from your reply, Joe, is that you can't answer the question.
No surprise.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 03:15 PM

if there's any hint of a suggestion that human trafficking laws have been violated, I fully support an investigation. But, from where I sit, these laws are being used as a shield from repatriation. There has been no mention of these laws being violated.
Where does it stop? What's the next imagined reason given for keeping them here? Kidnapping? Child labor violations?
This manipulation of law enforcement to satisfy an unrelated agenda scares the sheit out of me.
if anyone is complicit in any kind of trafficking of these kids, it would be those who ushered their safe passage from border to border in Mexico.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 03:17 PM

That's what I get for not using the quote box.

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
This.....................scares the sheit out of me.

There you have it; an elderly conservative white WASP sitting in front of the TV and computer screen, scared sheitless.

Looks like Faux News is doing their job quite well, and selling good copy. Sorry Dennis, but this isn't affecting your life at all... messed up your garden? Interrupted your mail? Loved ones in danger? No. It's a humanitarian effort, done by the party you despise and everything you are afraid of.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. They ARE out to get us.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 03:47 PM

Actually, Dave, I don't rely on any news source to form my opinions. I've actually found another, more personal method.
I do, however, watch Fox News and/or CNN for a half hour most days just waiting for the local news.

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabuddha

No. It's a humanitarian effort,



Only a blind, brain-dead, uninformed lemming could believe that's all it entails.

danaeb - 8-1-2014 at 04:01 PM

DENNIS, please inform us blind, brain-dead, uninformed lemmings, of all that it entails. Por favor.

Edited to include brain-dead. Is that a zombie?


[Edited on 8-1-2014 by danaeb]

DENNIS - 8-1-2014 at 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by danaeb
DENNIS, please inform us blind, brain-dead, uninformed lemmings, of all that it entails. Por favor.

Edited to include brain-dead. Is that a zombie?




The real problem with your question is that, after all the discussion, you don't know.
I'll only say one thing toward your simplistic question:
Our border, has been blasphemed by our own government. That is made all the more sacrilegious when considering all of the American lives lost while protecting the borders of other countries.
You can research the rest of the reasons. They aren't hard to find for one who wants to see.

bajabuddha - 8-1-2014 at 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:

Only a blind, brain-dead, uninformed lemming could believe that's all it entails.

That is exactly what I was describing.

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