BajaNomad - Conquering Baja With BFGoodrich’s Unbelievable New KO2

Conquering Baja With BFGoodrich’s Unbelievable New KO2

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willardguy - 12-7-2014 at 05:12 PM

jeepster for your love. T Rex

chuckie - 12-7-2014 at 05:13 PM

what are you guys smoking? A Mexican in a 2 wheel drive Cheby, with the family in the back went over that before any of you dilletantes ever thought of it...Shees....

J.P. - 12-7-2014 at 05:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

what are you guys smoking? A Mexican in a 2 wheel drive Cheby, with the family in the back went over that before any of you dilletantes ever thought of it...Shees....

chuckie - 12-7-2014 at 05:45 PM

AND BALD TIRES...

J.P. - 12-7-2014 at 06:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

AND BALD TIRES...

I cut my teeth driving on roads like that and worse in the Panhandle of Texas in my dads old 1936 Dodge.

rts551 - 12-7-2014 at 06:16 PM

Did that dodge have A$$trac? Lockers front and rear? What kinda tires?

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by rts551]

chuckie - 12-7-2014 at 06:24 PM

Nah, Right now, me and "old Smokey" are broke down in Saint Francis Kansas, waiting for an alternator.....No A$Strac, but some Good ol Jack...

J.P. - 12-7-2014 at 06:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Did that dodge have A$$trac? Lockers front and rear? What kinda tires?

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by rts551]

It had Monkey Wards Street tires with a set of knobbie's in the back for really rough going. If the hill was too steep we turned around and backed up it. and we didn't have to worry about octane we burned Drip gasoline that stuff was potent it would scorch the valves ouick :lol:

It har Monkey Wa

MMc - 12-7-2014 at 07:03 PM

OOOOH you haters! :no:

rts551 - 12-7-2014 at 07:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MMc

OOOOH you haters! :no:

ya coined by Notorious BIG for his Gansta Rap...who woulda known the term would make it on to such a conservative forum.

:?:

MMc - 12-7-2014 at 08:17 PM

I am just a OG...

David K - 12-8-2014 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by J.P.

5 Will get you 10 it wasn't some Gringo in a Tacoma or Jeep 4x4 that was the first to blaze that trail :no:

No, it was 'gringo' Fred Hampe with dynamite and a dozer, beginning in the late 1950's.

The road was passable by VW buggy in the mid 1960's... it got worse from lack of maintenance and those without 4WD or lockers spinning tires.

Here is a photo from J.W. Black Jr. of one of the Erle Stanley Gardner custom dune buggies at the mission in the 1960's. ...

[Edited on 6-12-2023 by David K]

4x4abc - 12-8-2014 at 11:09 AM

has anyone explored the supply trail from the south-west?

TMW - 12-8-2014 at 12:55 PM

David K posted a write up that Norm Christie did from a Backpacking trip from Hwy 1 KM187 near Jaraguay in 1993. The last three editions of the Baja Almanac show a trail but that is not the way Christie went. In fact I've looked for a trail several times around that area off Hwy 1 and did not find one.

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by TMW]

TMW - 12-8-2014 at 12:58 PM

Scrowl down to where DK posted Christie's trip report.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=25413

wessongroup - 12-8-2014 at 04:58 PM

These don't appear to be "BFGoodrich’s Unbelievable New KO2's" ... however they seem to work pretty good in this example

Thnx to the original poster of this ... great video

Hey, maybe TW ran out of "limes" .. :biggrin:

David K - 12-8-2014 at 05:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

has anyone explored the supply trail from the south-west?

There are two 'mission-era roads' in the region:
1) EL CAMINO REAL (Loreto to Monterey):
a) Jesuit Trail (1767-1768)
b) Franciscan/ Dominican Trail (1768-1855+)

2) SERRA's CARGO TRAIL (1769+)

Don Jorge (in one trip) went up to the mission from Gonzaga on the (b) trail and came back down on the (a) trail.

1a) The original Jesuit El Camino Real connecting the California missions used the canyon until near the end where a trail (sometimes called the Indian Trail) takes one up the side of the canyon to where the auto road building ended in the late 60's or early 70's, 2 miles east of the mission on the canyon rim.

The canyon route was very dangerous for pack animals and the padres riding on mules or donkeys. Many have hiked it and taken photos of the oasis palms and water pools. I hiked maybe halfway up the canyon from the Gonzaga side.

1b) The newer route crosses Arroyo Santa Maria just outside the canyon's east end and climbs up to the north rim, staying out of the canyon as much as possible and rejoins the other route about 1/4 mile below the end of the bulldozed road. Many have hiked it and a couple have motorcycled it, but it is dangerous on a bike. I hiked about 2/3 of the way up from the Gonzaga side.

2) The cargo trail goes from Bahia San Luis Gonzaga (near Papa Fernandez') towards Mission San Fernando, passing to the north of Mission Santa Maria and joins the auto road (also El Camino Real route) about 3.5 miles west of the mission/ 11 miles east of Santa Ynez. Baja Bucko has been on it by mule all the way to Gonzaga and back to Santa Ynez. Others have hiked about half of it from the Gonzaga side to an oasis where Baja Bucko hid a GeoCache in 2001.

[Edited on 12-9-2014 by David K]

David K - 12-8-2014 at 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

David K posted a write up that Norm Christie did from a Backpacking trip from Hwy 1 KM187 near Jaraguay in 1993. The last three editions of the Baja Almanac show a trail but that is not the way Christie went. In fact I've looked for a trail several times around that area off Hwy 1 and did not find one.

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by TMW]

Here is Norm's article (by the way he is a Baja Nomad 'RockMan'). He got his east and west mixed up, but otherwise describes going down the Jesuit Camino Real to the canyon bottom and out to Punta Final:

On the morning of October 20, we cleaned our campsite and packed up for the last leg of our hike toward Bahia Gonzaga. Our local guide, Prieto, told us that the main canyon downstream had several impassable areas of deep pools flanked by vertical smooth awls of granite, so we hiked up above the canyon, on its north rim, along the remnant of the old Camino Real. This involved climbing slightly to a maximum elevation of 1375 feet (the west end of the bulldozed trail) and proceeding for about a half mile. Along this stretch we observed several rocks with petroglyphs. We then returned to the floor of the canyon (675 feet) where there was still water. As we proceeded westward, the canyon became wilder and sandier. Reaching the beginning of the large alluvial fan at about 575 feet elevation, there was no sign of surface water; it was now flowing under the sand. We walked about another mile before arriving at our previously arranged meeting site with a couple of vehicles (with ice chests full of notably cool refreshments) and proceeded on wheels to Punta Final where resident friends were preparing a welcome back dinner.

4x4abc - 12-9-2014 at 04:22 AM

I have hiked St. Maria canyon at least 30 times over the years - a beautiful day trip (start before sunrise and you'll make it in one day in and out).
Mostly I have taken the easy route connecting to the end of the bulldozed trail (right where the petroglyphs are). I have always called it the indian trail. If you find the trail portions on the mesas, it's an easy trip - if you have to stay in the sand of the canyon, it's harder.

Many times I have followed the entire canyon (not going up to the petroglyph area). Some spots look impassable at first - but if you keep your eyes peeled, you'll find easy routes over the cliffs. The toughest is the one at the large pool.

The Mission Trail above the canyon actually takes more time as the starting point is more east than the starting point indian trail. I have cleared a drivable route about 2 miles east of the point where the Camino Real crosses the canyon from Las Palmitas. On 2 occasions while hiking the CR, we have encountered gale force winds that knocked us onto our knees.

David K - 12-9-2014 at 08:25 AM

OK great, you know them both well. Looking at you satellite image above, there is a switchback trail that goes from the bulldozed road up the side of the hill to near your pin 'CR'.

Here's an photo taken from Doug's plane of the same area in your sat images, but looking east... you can easily see the Indian Trail drop towards the canyon bottom from the end of the bulldozed road...

Here's a photo of one of the petros along the 'Indian Trail' (Jesuit Camino Real)...

4x4abc - 12-9-2014 at 12:48 PM

never noticed the switchback trail

Jaybo - 12-9-2014 at 01:49 PM

I priced out the new BFG KO2's at Costco here in Oregon - 285/16's $230 each out the door. That is significantly cheaper than the Toyo M/T's or even the Hankook DynaPro M/T's I have now. Not sure how the warranty works buying from Costco, but I am really wanting to see how the tires hold up to regular gravel road driving .. I have 8 miles a day when I drive my truck and tire life is 20-25k tops with my 02 Ford F350 CC diesel.

wessongroup - 12-9-2014 at 02:15 PM

Should prove interest .. if ya buy them

Jaybo - 12-9-2014 at 02:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Should prove interest .. if ya buy them

Yeah I still have about 5000 miles left on my Dynapro's (if I'm lucky...) so probably a coming summer purchase. Be interesting to see what the results are from the early buyers..

I've never been a BFG fan so we'll see

ECR Switchback leaving Santa Maria Valley

David K - 12-9-2014 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

never noticed the switchback trail

It is very faint, lined with rocks... the GPS waypoint I have posted for the El Camino Real's west end at the bulldozed road is where it begins. It switches up the hill and meets that more obvious, almost dozed looking track that parallels the auto road to the arroyo in the valley.

Here are my 2007 photos of it:

On the mission trail looking south towards Arroyo Santa Maria, west of the canyon.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the auto road looking at the trail start. Note ducks/ cairns
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking down auto road coming from mission. The trail start is to my right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2010 photos:

Auto (bulldozed) road past the trailhead going to the canyon rim/ petros.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me at the start of the switchback trail at the auto road.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The El Camino Real, note ocotillo growing from inside old old trail.

4x4abc - 12-9-2014 at 08:08 PM

good stuff!

David K - 12-10-2014 at 08:29 AM

Isn't Baja a GREAT place! :bounce:

4x4abc - 12-10-2014 at 09:02 AM

would not want to be anywhere else

any information on San Juan de las Parras?

David K - 12-10-2014 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

would not want to be anywhere else

any information on San Juan de las Parras?

I did a search, but only found my posts on El Camino Real. I thought some motorcycle riders had posted photos of it somewhere... perhaps on another forum? I am thinking it was a ride with Bill Nichols, Kevin Ward and Kacey Smith?

Harry Crosby's map call it San Juan de las Palmas. The Almanac says Parras. Harry has another spot, on the west side of the mountain called Parras, up stream from San Casimiro. Perhaps there are two, or the Almanac is wrong?

HERE for those wondering where this is:

The ranch or point-of-interest is along the Camino Real, eastern (or 'Gulfo') branch between San Ignacio and Santa Gertrudis.

The Gulf Side Camino Real is shown in the Almanac leaving San Ignacio straight north, veering east of CERRO SANTIAGO and dropping into ARROYO EL INFIERNO, and follows it upstream.

SANTA MARTA was a visita and a resting place for Serra and others on the Camino Real. Continue north into ARROYO EL ROSARITO to the flat plain of SAN GREGORIO. Here Crosby comments on how nowhere had the road (ECR) been so wide, straight, and clearly marked.

One of the El Camino Real routes goes almost to SAN CASIMIRO then turns north to EL CARRIZO, joins with the Pacific Side ECR and reaches Santa Gertrudis.

A far east route goes from ARROYO SAN GREGORIO north through SAN JUAN DE LAS PARRAS, then swings westward and follows ARROYO SANTA GERTRUDIS to the mission.

David K - 12-10-2014 at 09:54 AM

After searching, I found the trip I was thinking of, but the wrong San Juan... de las Pilas, south of San Ignacio. Still a beautiful area! See Kevin Ward's photos:

See the 65 photos here: Kevin Ward Baja Singletrack Trip

4x4abc - 12-10-2014 at 11:37 AM

San Juan de las Palmas is very likely San Juan de las Parras. There is also a ranch east of San Casimiro that is sometimes called las Parras (or Las Juntas) - I have hired a guide there once.
We have tried a couple of years ago to reach Juan de las Parras with 4x4. But we could not make it all the way due to a huge waterfall. We will try again soon. There seems to be a trail south of the waterfall area ("the end" on the picture).

http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Events/La-Fortuna/i-wx35TG...

[Edited on 12-10-2014 by 4x4abc]

David K - 12-10-2014 at 04:34 PM

Wonderful... keep exploring and finding the way! Baja is a time machine!

Tioloco - 12-11-2014 at 07:40 PM

Well put, David. Time machine it is!

David K - 12-12-2014 at 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Well put, David. Time machine it is!

Much (most) of what you see is the real deal when it comes to the missions. Here in the USA, the California missions are either all rebuilt, replicas, or copies of what they think many of the missions looked like.

Now, the adobe mission ruins in northern Baja that were striped of protective roofing by Mexican immigrants the past 150 years and allowed to melt down to stubs are perhaps a lot less interesting to visit than a modern recreation, but those stubs are the real physical remains of what was built in Baja in the 1700's and 1800's by people who traveled years to civilize the region.

One adobe mission that was still impressive when I first visited it in 1974 was San Fernando de Velicatá (1769), the first Franciscan founded mission, and the first founded by Junípero Serra (before San Diego):

40 years ago, 1974 and again in 1975 showing two sides of the mission:

10 years ago Dec. 2004:

My last two photos taken from a helicopter, June, 2014:

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