BajaNomad - Megadrought Predictions

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

So back 200 years or more, what was the excuse for the droughts ????

motoged - 2-16-2015 at 11:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

.... Here was some of what I was gonna post:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-gap-between...
[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Ateo]

Ateo,
Good link.....too bad the other stuff evaporated.....gives you something to do now.

It led to me thinking about my thinking....which led me to thinking about epistemology....which led to:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/epistemo/

A headful, for sure :light:

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by motoged]

David K - 2-16-2015 at 11:21 PM

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

So back 200 years or more, what was the excuse for the droughts ????

Bravo!

SOME 'progressives' are so sure there is no God (or 'Mother Nature' to some), and that man creates weather and can change weather... but since accurate digital measuring instruments didn't exist 200 years ago, they will dismiss it as an anomaly. Nature bats last folks!

Have any of you seen photos from the San Diego area 100 years ago or more? There are no trees here naturally other than some oaks in the creek beds above 1,000 feet. No golf courses, lawns, birds of paradise, oleanders, nada... Just some dry brush and cactus! Drought is NORMAL here... lot's of rain is abnormal. Every few years we have a real wet season, but most years we do not.

[Edited on 2-18-2015 by David K]

Glidergeek - 2-16-2015 at 11:28 PM

We all know the sky is falling. And we all know a $100+ Billion bullet train through the San Joaquin valley makes more sense then desalination plants!

David K - 2-17-2015 at 12:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Glidergeek

We all know the sky is falling. And we all know a $100+ Billion bullet train through the San Joaquin valley makes more sense then desalination plants!

Oh good one... governor moonbeam loves that one!

motoged - 2-17-2015 at 12:45 AM

......The 'progressives' are so sure there is no God ....

And you are so sure?

Quite the leap from repeating weather cycles to religion... :?:

But since you brought it up...."fundamentally":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwdVD1gGDvA

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by motoged]

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by motoged]

redhilltown - 2-17-2015 at 12:49 AM

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

So back 200 years or more, what was the excuse for the droughts ????

Bravo!

The 'progressives' are so sure there is no God (or 'Mother Nature' to some), and that man creates weather and can change weather... but since accurate digital measuring instruments didn't exist 200 years ago, they will dismiss it as an anomaly. Nature bats last folks!

Have any of you seen photos from the San Diego area 100 years ago or more? There are no trees here naturally other than some oaks in the creek beds above 1,000 feet. No golf courses, lawns, birds of paradise, oleanders, nada... Just some dry brush and cactus! Drought is NORMAL here... lot's of rain is abnormal. Every few years we have a real wet season, but most years we do not.

The "progressives" have no claim for or against a god. Many if not most of the greatest "progressives" throughout history believed in religion. This is an idiotic red herring. We could go down this road in that well, if there IS a god, why is he letting people suffer and why are not prayers answered but the reply is going to be he (not she), is mysterious and we do not understand his intentions. It is completely useless to this discussion.

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by redhilltown]

Drought !!

captkw - 2-17-2015 at 07:27 AM

Funny... I thought this thread was about the drought...it's 6

o am and I just read this thread all the way through again....seems likes grumpy folks here....and to the "goat"... I specialize in fuel Injection and electrical systems and Diagnostics...seldom holding a wrench, more time with a DVM and brains...your child like comments show a lot about yourself.. anyway calif. is in a drought and I DONT know the answer of how to make snow and rain...why anyone would want to argue with this fact is beyond me !! the east coast has been getting hammerd and the west coast has had this high pressure ridge just offshore stopping any rain...really sucks....very few folks have had the time to really get to know the water systems in ca. or even care !! I think I'll go try a rain dance !! K&T

David K - 2-17-2015 at 08:37 AM

LOL... of course one cannot include God here without upsetting someone, so that is why I also included Mother Nature. The whole point is the 'belief' or 'religion' of an all powerful man (or maybe government) that can change the weather or change the climate... a false god, false belief but with many followers. Naturally, that is my opinion... but so is man created climate change, an opinion and not a proven fact... just a bunch of projections or predictions made that none of which have come true.

Ateo - 2-17-2015 at 08:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

.... Here was some of what I was gonna post:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-gap-between...
[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Ateo]

Ateo,
Good link.....too bad the other stuff evaporated.....gives you something to do now.

It led to me thinking about my thinking....which led me to thinking about epistemology....which led to:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/epistemo/

A headful, for sure :light:

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by motoged]

Wow Ged, that is SOME website! Lots to absorb there................Thanks.

vgabndo - 2-17-2015 at 09:37 AM

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

So back 200 years or more, what was the excuse for the droughts ????

A few thoughts on your comment about godless progressives. First, you seem to tip your hand when you use the word god as a proper noun. This is commonly done by those who believe there is only one god and that it's name is God. This is one of the root causes of the global holy war, IMJ.
More to the point, I tend to agree with those who postulate that the more intelligent a person is, and the greater their educational attainment, the greater likelihood they will be both non-religious and liberal. It is only anecdotal, but the National Academy of Sciences in the US, an undeniably august body, self-describes as overwhelmingly atheistic, and they are commonly charged with having a "liberal bias". I judge that they are not atheistic as a result of being progressive, but that they are politically progressive and refuse to believe in supreme beings in the sky, or life continuing after death because they are the most intelligent and well educated among us.

Your argument that southern California has always been a desert (or near desert) is irrefutable. The error of filling that terrain with lawns and swimming pools and millions of water consuming human beings can probably be laid at the feet of those who professed that God would provide. Certainly no consensus of scientists was suggesting that water would magically appear.

MMc - 2-17-2015 at 09:48 AM

This was written by a bunch of lefties, why else would the public disagree with hard facts :lol:

Now I need to freshen up the sand I'm sticking my head under.

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

I HATE this new Nomad software. It took things backwards. Just spent 30 minutes compiling data into a post and it didn't go thru.

This forum is trapped in 2003.

Here was some of what I was gonna post:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-gap-between...

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Ateo]

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by MMc]

David K - 2-17-2015 at 10:21 AM

Perry, the point you make about man's use of water here in SoCal is correct. The climate here will grow almost anything we want to see growing... if one adds water.

I did not use the word 'desert', and this side of the mountains is not desert as much as it is dry Mediterranean or semi-arid in classification. Our average rainfall is just over 10 inches a year... but we have gone multiple years with less than that, so this time is nothing new.

Swimming pools store water, so they being kept full are not nearly the users of water as agriculture (we 'gots' to eat), or golf courses (I think is a real waste of land and water... but my opinion does not make me want to take away another's enjoyment of the activity the way some groups like to dictate how others live).

More and more homes here are going to native plants, removing lawns, and changing wasteful irrigation products to smart watering drip irrigation and multi stream rotor sprinklers, as well as controllers that adjust based on weather data and don't water when we do get rain. This kind of irrigation modernization is what I do for a living, besides write about Baja history!

bledito - 2-17-2015 at 10:42 AM

It's the Aliens. They are changing the climate and causing the droughts so they can kill off all the humans and take over the planet.They drink sea water with no problem. That is the reason we are trying to colonize Mars.

wessongroup - 2-17-2015 at 11:01 AM

Most definitely .. hard to swallow, without water to wash it down .. beer and/or wine can work for a while, but, long term not a good idea :biggrin:

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-dr...

So back 200 years or more, what was the excuse for the droughts ????

Have never stated weather or anything is NOT cyclic "naturally" ... As in fact everything is .. in one way or another .. based on the Law of Thermodynamics ... Something for nothing, doesn't exist

Was only discussing the "need" for water to exist by living organisms ... in that post

And the aspect of "natural events" being impacted by man

Ya know, like the salmon runs ...or: air water and soil polution and of course human population growth on the planet ... UN checked by "natural" factors

Moving water to populations has been going on a while, think the Romans, and will be going on for the foreseeable future

Anyone that thinks California is NOT in a drought is out of the mind ... whether it is caused by man, or not ... That really isn't all that important, when ya don't have enough water ... to drink, and grow food and fiber ... taking it to the bottom line

And I'm so happy, some are thinking of my thinking as progressive ... I'm usually call a racist, tea bagger, white devil slave master .. among others :biggrin:

And yes .. .this software does put a crimp in posting for some :biggrin:

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by wessongroup]

Drought or just normal for here?

David K - 2-17-2015 at 11:21 AM

We are in winter 2014 still, so not on graph yet.

Edit: Last year was San Diego's 13th driest year in recorded history of rainfall (almost 150 years back), ie. there were 12 years with less rainfall than last year. So, we are dry... but not different than many other years in the least.

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by David K]

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 11:40 AM

David, you need to look at Sierra snow pack if you are referring to California's drought. There are huge deficits there.

David K - 2-17-2015 at 11:44 AM

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 11:56 AM

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

There you go again....David, where do you get your water? The drought is real despite what you see or don't see.

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Bajaboy]

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Why are there over 600 scientists standing by a letter they signed saying essentially it nothing but hooey?
Why has even the guy responsible for the original data collection saying HIS data collection is sloppy?
If I remember correctly, Tucson AZ was sited as an historical data collection site BUT the "concrete island effect" due to population explosion was not factored in on the final report for temp rise over the study period.
As has been postulated It all comes down to funding! The sky is falling!
We're looking at a few hundred years in what 4 or 5 billion?
Climatologists can't predict next weeks weather and now we are predicting the end of the earth?
Just heard this week that it has been the coldest winter back east on record. To add, there has been no significant warming trend for over 18 years from what I read.

If you look at the qualifications of those 600 "scientists" almost none of them are climate scientists and many of them are not what we'd consider scientist at all, but just have bachelor of science degrees.

I'm surprised Rand Paul hasn't claimed to be climate scientist yet

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Bajaboy]

blackwolfmt - 2-17-2015 at 12:15 PM

2013_Snowfall_Snowpack_Chart (Medium).gif - 38kB

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by blackwolfmt]

_80328070_temperature_anomaly_624.gif - 20kB

David K - 2-17-2015 at 12:53 PM

That graph while made to look wildly scary show only a 1.1 degree change in temperature over 134 years. Seriously, that causes you to panic and stop having children or move underground? What was life like 134 years ago? With all the changes, people, automobiles, factories, nuclear explosions, fires and wars... ONLY 1.1 degree Celsius difference from the coldest on that graph (1912) to 2014.

If that graph went back in time before 1880, and why doesn't it, how long before we see temperatures that are about the same as today, again? It's happened before, and before man was here, too. There was no polar ice of millions of years... and that was natural, not man made.

David K - 2-17-2015 at 12:54 PM

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

There you go again....David, where do you get your water? The drought is real despite what you see or don't see.

http://xoap.weather.com/web/multimedia/images/blog/SIERRA021...

From local reservoirs and the Colorado River.

SOCAL WATER

captkw - 2-17-2015 at 01:01 PM

that's A BAD JOKE...SD gets 50 percent of its water from the river and 30 percent from the delta.....

David K - 2-17-2015 at 01:57 PM

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by David K]

nobodylikesyouanyway - 2-17-2015 at 02:21 PM

DTBushpilot has it right............. and furthermore, most of the so called climate scientists are funded by the state apparatchik that increases control over the little people by propagating such poppyc-ck.

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 02:26 PM

Severe sudden 'climate change' has apparently happened before, and not that long ago:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150216160005.ht...

Barry

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2015 at 02:50 PM

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

There you go again....David, where do you get your water?

From local reservoirs and the Colorado River.

dk:
most water consumed by county comes from SDCWA. The largest share of SDCWA water comes from MWD. The SDCWA got, gets and will get it's water from:

Donner Summit Today!

AKgringo - 2-17-2015 at 03:03 PM

I just got back from Sugar Bowl on Donner Summit. The main runs off of the two main peaks are actually a little better than they were last year, but only because they were able to aggressively make snow before the few natural storms moved in. It is currently too warm to effectively make more snow (20 F or less)
At about this time last year, we were lucky enough to get a few more significant storms that extended the season, but that does not look like it is happening anytime soon. Even if the storms were to come in cold enough to dump snow, any slopes not facing north are bare and the snow will turn to run off sooner than if it fell on old snow.
Look at the Donner summit chart in this thread. Notice that it was only four years ago that we had double the average snowfall! There was more snow on the ground on Thanks giving of 2010 than we have now in February, and I was skiing on the 4th of July.
Things can change fast in the mountains, I have seen chain control on I-80 in
July before. The silver lining on the present drought is that the weather in the foothills is absolutely fantastic right now! I better go out and remove the top on my Kia and leave it off until I get wet. That worked in January, perhaps I put it back on too soon!

Stickers - 2-17-2015 at 03:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I just got back from Sugar Bowl on Donner Summit. The main runs off of the two main peaks are actually a little better than they were last year, but only because they were able to aggressively make snow before the few natural storms moved in. It is currently too warm to effectively make more snow (20 F or less)
At about this time last year, we were lucky enough to get a few more significant storms that extended the season, but that does not look like it is happening anytime soon. Even if the storms were to come in cold enough to dump snow, any slopes not facing north are bare and the snow will turn to run off sooner than if it fell on old snow.
Look at the Donner summit chart in this thread. Notice that it was only four years ago that we had double the average snowfall! There was more snow on the ground on Thanks giving of 2010 than we have now in February, and I was skiing on the 4th of July.
Things can change fast in the mountains, I have seen chain control on I-80 in
July before. The silver lining on the present drought is that the weather in the foothills is absolutely fantastic right now! I better go out and remove the top on my Kia and leave it off until I get wet. That worked in January, perhaps I put it back on too soon!

I think you might have the solution:

DK can install sprinklers up on Donner Summit and then turn on the spigot to make more snow up there. Don't need no damn scientists to work this stuff out.
Now we can all relax.

.

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 03:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

There you go again....David, where do you get your water?

From local reservoirs and the Colorado River.

dk:
most water consumed by county comes from SDCWA. The largest share of SDCWA water comes from MWD. The SDCWA got, gets and will get it's water from:

Those figures appear to be in direct conflict with figures I just looked up on the net?!?!?!?!?! Very strange!!!

Barry

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2015 at 03:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I am referring (as I have said often here) to Southern California's weather, it is where I live.

There you go again....David, where do you get your water?

From local reservoirs and the Colorado River.

dk:
most water consumed by county comes from SDCWA. The largest share of SDCWA water comes from MWD. The SDCWA got, gets and will get it's water from:

Those figures appear to be in direct conflict with figures I just looked up on the net?!?!?!?!?! Very strange!!!

Barry

the figure i showed is from SDCWA website. follow the link.

p.s. most stuff on the internet is wrong (dk is a good example! :lol:

:lol

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 03:51 PM

So Goat, your (SDCWA) 2014 figures state that San Diego water is from the Colorado River via the MWD/Coachella/Imperial Irrigation. Dist 76% (does not state how much of that comes from the Sacto Delta area?), and local sources are 24%.

I don't understand your point as these figures don't appear to me to really be in conflict with David's statement.

Barry

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 03:55 PM

So Goat, your (SDCWA) 2014 figures state that San Diego water is from the Colorado River via the MWD/Coachella/Imperial Irrigation. Dist 76% (does not state how much of that comes from the Sacto Delta area?), and local sources are 24%.

I don't understand your point as these figures don't appear to me to really be in conflict with David's statement.

Barry

MWD gets it's water from Northern California and then distributes it out after marking up the cost.

http://www.mwdh2o.com/

Here's an interesting map just for David: http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/news/2012-ConvMap.pdf

[Edited on 2-17-2015 by Bajaboy]

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 04:12 PM

Well, sorta!!!

My understanding-----Most of MWD's water comes from the Colorado River, I believe. But yes, there is some from the State Water project (NorCal) also. I just don't know how much.

Barry

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 04:21 PM

Well not really:

A major source of its water is the Owens River-Tinemaha Reservoir, 133 miles away in Owens Valley. The water in the Owens River- Tinemaha Reservoir comes from
the State Water Project, a 444 mile-long water system which begins in Northern California.

Other sources of water for Los Angeles are the Haiwee Reservoir, 137 miles away in the Owens Valley, Lake Havasu (reservoir) 242 miles away in Arizona, and the Colorado River Aqueduct, 200 miles away.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2009/03/do-you-know-where-la-get...

David K - 2-17-2015 at 04:30 PM

Map that Bajaboy posted shows the system very well... coming from the Colorado River right to San Diego. It doesn't even show any connection from Northern California to here, but I know some trickles through. Thanks Zac!

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2015 at 04:50 PM

san diego's water comes from 3 primary sources, and proportions vary with time. approximate sources: state water project, 30%; colo river, 50%; and local sources, 20%.

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 05:00 PM

Like the Goat said, stuff on the Net is often wrong.

The statements above are contorted and just plain wrong.

The Owens Valley Aqueduct gets NO water from the "State Water Project"----none!!! (The Sierra-Nevada Range is in the way).

Haiwee reservoir is part of the Owens Valley Aquaduct system, and thereby receives no water from the State Water Project, and certainly is not an "additional" source of water..

I believe that Owens Valley Water is now (almost?) exclusively used for agriculture in and around Los Angeles.

Barry

rocmoc - 2-17-2015 at 05:19 PM

Was a Field Tech at SDCWA and an Engineer at Cal State Water Resources Dept 20+ years ago. At that time most of the water IMPORTED into San Diego County was Colorado River Water. Very little came from the State Water Project. About 75% of the State Water Project was used for Ag, about 10% satisfying Clean Water & Fish Regs and the balance was Commercial & Residential consumption. Owens Valley was Ag, Comm & Res consumption. I am sure Ag has taken the biggest hit as that was the plan back then. Problem is the population growth was larger than the savings from Ag IMHO coupled with decrease in rainfall.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Bajahowodd - 2-17-2015 at 05:48 PM

Agree Cliffy ... Based on the Law of thermodynamics as it applies to all matter we currently understand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

And we are seeing "it" applied globally at this time

Bit surprised about Lake Powell .. as a National Geo'a repot on the "river" and/or "lake's" was somewhat different

Noted that the comparisons are from 1999 and 2013, a very interesting interactive they have though

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130816-color...

Think the Anasazi might have idea's on drought and/or climate change, if we could ask them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Pueblo_peoples#Migratio...

And I'm NOT hoping for a drought ... anywhere

Pray and/or dance for rain/snow .. where needed

[Edited on 2-16-2015 by wessongroup]

I recall watching Lake Powell fill from its very beginning. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the high water mark that was hit decades ago has never been repeated.

redhilltown - 2-17-2015 at 06:17 PM

I need a drink of water...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDtCa8ZgAk4

Screen Shot 2015-02-17 at 5.15.23 PM.png - 143kB

state,fed water

captkw - 2-17-2015 at 06:24 PM

Am I and Kgyfon the only two delta rats here ??? and barry is very correct..owens valley has nothing to do with the "ditch" as some of us call it..but folks would be very surprised to know about water in calif and its many inter systems......K&T

bajabuddha - 2-17-2015 at 06:45 PM

Note to bajahowodd:
Lake Powell reached "pool level" in June, 1980.

In 1983 and 1984 it exceeded "pool level'' by over 8 feet, and almost cost the Dam Damn its' place on the earth.

Since, has not reached "pool level".

It's now aprox. 100' or more below.

For a great read, if you want to know the Engineers' specs on the Damn Dam, read "Glen Canyon" by Steve Hannon.

DianaT - 2-17-2015 at 07:10 PM

The 'progressives' are so sure there is no God (or 'Mother Nature' to some), .....

To not appear so ignorant, you really should edit that statement to say SOME PROGRESSIVES.

There are many very religious progressives who very much believe in a god with a capital G. There are many who are Methodists, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, member of the Church of Christ, Evangelicals, Catholics and more. And that list just covers a few of the different Christian churches.

Ignorance is curable if one wishes to learn.

[Edited on 2-18-2015 by DianaT]

bajadogs - 2-17-2015 at 07:36 PM

I, although not a religious person, have always been under the impression that Jesus Christ was quite progressive. My apologies for the OFF-TOPIC DavidK induced post. Carry on with the more serious drought issue.

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

The 'progressives' are so sure there is no God (or 'Mother Nature' to some), .....

I assume you have sources and links to back those statements up, Diane?!?!?!?!?!

(the devil made me say that) :lol:

Barry

Pompano - 2-17-2015 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Note to bajahowodd:
Lake Powell reached "pool level" in June, 1980.

In 1983 and 1984 it exceeded "pool level'' by over 8 feet, and almost cost the Dam Damn its' place on the earth.

Since, has not reached "pool level".

It's now aprox. 100' or more below.

For a great read, if you want to know the Engineers' specs on the Damn Dam, read "Glen Canyon" by Steve Hannon.

I've fished and boated on Lake Powell since way back. Here's some photos showing the water levels in 1986..taken while onboard the Scenic Queen tour boat. The tour guide mentioned the 'pool level' high water mark and this year's drop. You can see the 'bathtub ring'. There would be quite the high-dive from there to today's waterline.

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 07:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw

Am I and Kgyfon the only two delta rats here ??? and barry is very correct..owens valley has nothing to do with the "ditch" as some of us call it..but folks would be very surprised to know about water in calif and its many inter systems......K&T

In learning about "water" and water projects in CA, there is a wonderful Visitor Center along side interstate 5 over the pass between LA and Bakersfield---------well worth spending several hours at.

Barry

MMc - 2-17-2015 at 08:12 PM

I think the way things work out is somewhere in the middle, both side are full of themselves and overstate issues to try and pull the other side to the middle.
We all should the words of Mark Twain "Never argue with a fool, he'll bring the argument down to his level and win with experience."

wessongroup - 2-17-2015 at 08:36 PM

It is a good example of why "science" is a field that many do not go into ...

Who wants the arguments ... ALL the time :lol:

Mexitron - 2-17-2015 at 08:40 PM

Yes MMc we've become a nation of "one side or the other" rather than some kind of meeting of the minds in the middle aka Eisenhower and Truman era. Eisenhower was so moderate in fact that both parties wanted him to run---imagine that!

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 08:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Pompano

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha

Wow, Roger-------(Photo #3) you even boated up to RAINBOW BRIDGE it appears------something I have long wanted to do.

Barry

woody with a view - 2-17-2015 at 08:58 PM

someone gimme a fork so I can jam it in my eyes. round and round, back and forth......

I need to get a life. this is becoming (more) ridiculous!

woody with a view - 2-17-2015 at 09:00 PM

see what I mean? what the fuuck is ridiburrous? we are all past the 3rd grade, right?

Mexitron - 2-17-2015 at 09:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view

someone gimme a fork so I can jam it in my eyes. round and round, back and forth......

I need to get a life. this is becoming (more) ridiburrous!

Exactly, LOL

bajadogs - 2-17-2015 at 10:57 PM

The big difference between (some) conservatives and (some) progressives (liberals) is that one side doesn't tell you what you can do or not do with the science data, or how to live... bla bla bla
:light:

you mean like a woman's right to choose?

Bajaboy - 2-17-2015 at 11:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajadogs

you mean like a woman's right to choose?

or who one can marry?

Barry A. - 2-17-2015 at 11:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajadogs

you mean like a woman's right to choose?

There are already laws against premeditated murder-------it's not a political question.

Barry

Barry A. - 2-18-2015 at 12:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajadogs

you mean like a woman's right to choose?

or who one can marry?

That's a State rights issue----------most Conservatives I know could care less if folks want to marry-----I know I don't. I never have been against "civil unions", but think the term "marriage" is the hangup----------however it is decided is of no importance to me.

Barry

redhilltown - 2-18-2015 at 12:23 AM

True. Civil rights is a "state" rights issue. If you want to have separate drinking fountains, eating establishments, and lack of voting rights well damn it, that is up to the "states"!

Luckily all of this is behind us.

Maybe a little history as to how Utah became a "state" might be in order...

MMc - 2-18-2015 at 08:33 AM

Water fountains and and eating establishments and voting rights was pushed forward by moderates on both sides.
Both sides have more them enough wrongs to go around.
Woody, you can have my fork, I'm done here.

ahhh

captkw - 2-18-2015 at 09:00 AM

ca is out of water!!

May I hijack the hijack?

AKgringo - 2-18-2015 at 09:08 AM

Back to Motoged's question of how to handle limited water supplies (i think that was the point)
I use water as if I am in a motor home and don't want to refill the fresh water, or dump the tanks very often.
Rain is the only water my lawn gets.
I have even offered to shower with a friend, but there have been no takers lately.

Sheesh.......nine pages of what!

[Edited on 2-18-2015 by AKgringo]

motoged - 2-18-2015 at 01:04 PM

AK,
My original posting wasn't as clear as to my concern as was my subsequent clarification....yes, I am wondering how Nomads manage their water supplies in Baja.

I would rather learn more about things like grey water systems, conservation, etc than this no-win us-them crap.

It appears some will politicize things to death with a limited binary view.....as Woody suggested: "Fork That".

I don't want to convert anyone's political views....as they are simply opinions....and you know what they say about that :biggrin:

Baja water supplies may be affected by any existing or future water supply shortages that are shared with California, Arizona and that part of North America.... :light:

David K - 2-18-2015 at 01:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Back to Motoged's question of how to handle limited water supplies (i think that was the point)
I use water as if I am in a motor home and don't want to refill the fresh water, or dump the tanks very often.
Rain is the only water my lawn gets.
I have even offered to shower with a friend, but there have been no takers lately.

Sheesh.......nine pages of what!

[Edited on 2-18-2015 by AKgringo]

To reduce your outside water consumption with out re-landscaping the entire yard to low water use, desert, or native plants...

1) Don't over-water... plants don't need as much as many people think. Some will even wait until the plants (or grass) "tells you" it needs water (by color change, wilting, etc. If you walk on your lawn and the blades of grass don't spring back up right away, then it needs water.

2) Replace your controller with one that changes automatically based on the weather. They are known as 'smart controllers'. It stops watering when it is raining too! If you don't switch, than at least reset your controller with each season or even monthly to water wisely!

3) Replace the wasteful spray sprinklers to MP Rotators, they use 1/3 less water and more water will get to the roots as it is applied at a much slower rate so the ground can easily absorb it.

4) Convert sprinklers to drip irrigation where more water hits walls and sidewalks than plant root zones. Drip applies the water very slowly and only where it is needed. Single emitters or emitterline, which is the tube/ hose with emitters factory installed inside every 12" to wet multiple shrubs, ground cover, around trees, etc.

Bajaboy - 2-18-2015 at 01:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

AK,
My original posting wasn't as clear as to my concern as was my subsequent clarification....yes, I am wondering how Nomads manage their water supplies in Baja.

I would rather learn more about things like grey water systems, conservation, etc than this no-win us-them crap.

It appears some will politicize things to death with a limited binary view.....as Woody suggested: "Fork That".

I don't want to convert anyone's political views....as they are simply opinions....and you know what they say about that :biggrin:

Baja water supplies may be affected by any existing or future water supply shortages that are shared with California, Arizona and that part of North America.... :light:

Good suggestions David.

All of our grey water is used for irrigation when we are at our place in Baja. We have learned to be judicious with our water use as the municipal water is often out and we rely on our tinacos.

We do have a drip system in place. Our neighbors waters once a week or so depending on the weather. As David said and I am learning, our plants don't need as much water as I once thought.

danaeb - 2-18-2015 at 02:01 PM

3) Replace the wasteful spray sprinklers to MP Rotators, they use 1/3 less water and more water will get to the roots as it is applied at a much slower rate so the ground can easily absorb it.

Thanks David. This is good info. Are the Rotators available retail?

monoloco - 2-18-2015 at 02:39 PM

If you live in a desert, plant cactus, succulents, and other drought resistant desert plants that need little water.

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2015 at 05:04 PM

All of our grey water is used for irrigation when we are at our place in Baja. We have learned to be judicious with our water use as the municipal water is often out and we rely on our tinacos.

I've asked several nomads this question:

Are veggies and fruits safe to eat after they've been watered with grey water?

[Edited on 2-19-2015 by Skipjack Joe]

David K - 2-18-2015 at 05:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by danaeb

3) Replace the wasteful spray sprinklers to MP Rotators, they use 1/3 less water and more water will get to the roots as it is applied at a much slower rate so the ground can easily absorb it.

Thanks David. This is good info. Are the Rotators available retail?

Yes, but you can buy them at the professional irrigation stores instead of Home Depot for more selection.

They have RainBird brand threads and if your 1800 RainBird or Hunter pop ups are in good shape and your pressure isn't too high, you can simply remove the spray nozzle and replace with an MP Rotator nozzle. However, if your pressure is high, or the pop up bodies are worn out, do replace them and use the Hunter Pro 4 with check valve and 40 psi regulation (MPR-40):

Google Hunter MP Rotators for more data.
(Rain Bird also makes a rotator nozzle, but it spins twice as fast, uses more water, and is a poor imitator in my opinion)

[Edited on 2-19-2015 by David K]

monoloco - 2-18-2015 at 05:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

All of our grey water is used for irrigation when we are at our place in Baja. We have learned to be judicious with our water use as the municipal water is often out and we rely on our tinacos.

I've asked several nomads this question:

Are veggies and fruits safe to eat after they've been watered with grey water?

[Edited on 2-19-2015 by Skipjack Joe]

It's not a good idea to use grey water on vegetable crops because it can contain pathogenic bacteria. It's probably OK on fruit trees as long as the fruit isn't in contact with the soil or the grey water.

wessongroup - 2-18-2015 at 05:59 PM

Believe it is still used in developing countries ... along with sewage sludge to make fertilizers here in the United States

With tolerance adopted ... for various components which are harmful to human health and the environment, in the United States

Just looked ... this is from the WHO via National Geo

"Nearly 200 million farmers in China, India, Vietnam, sub-Saharan Africa, and Latin America harvest grains and vegetables from fields that use untreated human waste.

Ten percent of the world's population relies on such foods, according to the World Health Organization (WHO)."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080821-human...

In Germany, back in the 60s .. .they called them "Honey wagons" and were used for farming .. at the time

Hey, its organic :biggrin:

[Edited on 2-19-2015 by wessongroup]

Gray-water garden

AKgringo - 2-18-2015 at 07:20 PM

If you go back a few pages to the Donner Summit snow/water chart, you will see that 1977 was the driest year in over a hundred years. At that time I was living in Grass Valley CA (same watershed) with a young family, and was a reader of Mother Earth News, and into raising our own food.
To do my part in that drought, I diverted the drains from the kitchen and laundry room to a home made filter/storage container. I had a valve connected to an irrigation system that was a combination of drip and soaker lines in our garden.
We were very careful about the cleaners we used, and what went down the line. If we needed to use heavy bleach, or de-greasers, we would put the washing machine discharge hose back in the city sewer line.
We had a fantastic garden that year, and no one got sick! The gray water went straight to the roots, and we could be sure of what our veggies were exposed to.
Gray water in the bathroom was captured as much as possible, and used to flush the toilet. I felt pretty good about our efforts that year!

BajaRat - 2-18-2015 at 08:22 PM

Have any of you seen photos from the San Diego area 100 years ago or more? There are no trees here naturally other than some oaks in the creek beds above 1,000 feet. No golf courses, lawns, birds of paradise, oleanders, nada... Just some dry brush and cactus! Drought is NORMAL here... lot's of rain is abnormal. Every few years we have a real wet season, but most years we do not.

[Edited on 2-18-2015 by David K]

Other than blaming man for all these irresponsible over builds in environments that can't support these large populations I think you just answered the question of why you should be very concerned with the current situation. There is not enough water for our reckless water wasting lifestyles. We must adopt personal conservation efforts before we are forced to.
But all good things come to an end, we will be dead and leave our mistakes for our children to clean up

David K - 2-18-2015 at 11:27 PM

Hard to tell people they can't live in America's Finest City (San Diego or SoCal in general) because they weren't born here... the best climate on the mainland, and all...

If agriculture and landscaping all used drip irrigation or smart watering techniques, there will be enough water.

Mexitron - 2-19-2015 at 06:59 AM

Should've listened to my old friend years ago when the water conservation bandwagon was gaining momentum---he said he was still going to use as much water as he wanted---if he conserved that would mean more water was available and developers would be allowed to build more houses.

Mexitron - 2-19-2015 at 07:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by danaeb

3) Replace the wasteful spray sprinklers to MP Rotators, they use 1/3 less water and more water will get to the roots as it is applied at a much slower rate so the ground can easily absorb it.

Thanks David. This is good info. Are the Rotators available retail?

Those MPRs are da bomb, what a great invention. I've been reversing course on netafim for larger areas and using these, and fantastic for slopes.

wessongroup - 2-19-2015 at 09:40 AM

Climate change: Is your opinion informed by science? Take our quiz

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2014/0827/Climate-chang...

Mexitron - 2-19-2015 at 10:45 AM

Climate change: Is your opinion informed by science? Take our quiz

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2014/0827/Climate-chang...

That's a pretty informative quiz.

monoloco - 2-19-2015 at 10:49 AM