BajaNomad - Three Summits Study

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

I just got off the phone with Roy (The Squarecircle) and he wants to put a group together to investigate summit#3. I suggested the weekend of May 30, but I'm open to other dates.

Anyone interested? 4x4ABC, Fernwell, DK.

Maybe... it is the weekend after Memorial Day (May 25), when we traditionally take our first trip of the season to Shell Island. Sadly, the moon is in quarter phase, meaning no big high and low tides.

Greetings All >>>> It has been about 30 years since I have been into "Cowboy Canyon" and the shack at the lower end of #3 summit. Back then the idea was to complete the route with a 4X4 trail past the shack and up the mountain to M3. It would have been another way out of Desierto. With all the new interest in the pole line road, this could be an interesting adventure. Have been at the lower shack several times both from the top and lower side. It is not an easy blaze thru>>Maybe 100 yds. mas/menos.>>> Are there any adventurous Nomads to go there and take a look???? Best regards, sq.[/rquote Greetings All, >>>> Need to BUMP this UP!!!! >>>> There appears to be more interest now in that area of: >>>> Isabel Canyon-- EL Mano-- Laguna Hanson. >>>> Regards, sq.

TMW - 5-21-2015 at 09:33 AM

After this weekend I'm good for anytime. I talked to Roy (Sq) yesterday and he is ready.

Who else? When can you make it.

David K

Emerson

Emerson - 5-21-2015 at 09:53 AM

Lets do it.

May 29-30-31?

PaulW - 5-21-2015 at 11:26 AM

Some thoughts:
The Mexicali route Hwy 5 should be OK when heading for the PLR. You will be on the race track from the wells south in AG for a bit, but then keep right and get off the race track. Buy gas at Km 31.
We are all betting the race track will be revised where the flooding is, but that supposedly is north of the wells.
Beware there are no reports for Jaquegel and if it received half as much rain as parts north then there will be problems getting through. Even with no flooding that would be a pretty slow way to get to the 3 summits.

The long route would be to head for the 3 summits would be from Valley Trinidad or Indepencia. Buy gas again in Trinidad. No reports of flooding in that region. Adds more time? for the trip. Hwy 5 then hwy 3. Not a good way during prerunning or race day.

Waiting until after the race and there will be good road condition reports and no conflict with racers.

David K - 5-21-2015 at 05:34 PM

Here's my thinking... going to Baja is not hard, but it is also no small event considering getting time off work or getting work to pay for the trip... IF we go down there to SEE if Canyon #3 (Cañon de Jamau) is passable from the Y on the Pole Line Road to the top of the sierra... IS there some other activity planned?

A) Go Up #3 if we can, and then back down #2 (Sáiz) to the Pole Line Road?
B) Go Up #2 (Sáiz) and back down #1 (Portezuelo de Jamau/ PLR)?
C) Don't come back down and head to Hwy. 3 and dinner in Ensenada?
D) Come back down and spend more time looking for insulators and other 'trash' from 1942?
E) Try some more to find Melchior Diaz' Grave? There is one more wash south of Arroyo D or see if we can drive up to the divide from the east side, the way Walter Henderson walked it?

You see there's ENDLESS exploration potential in this peninsula! SO MUCH BAJA... SO LITTLE TIME!

TMW - 5-21-2015 at 07:39 PM

So when do you want to go do A,B,C,D, and E or F.

David K - 5-22-2015 at 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

So when do you want to go do A,B,C,D, and E or F.

I am all for F! :lol:

Seriously, it rained again last night/this morning here in 'drought' land... the third wet Friday in a row!!! While it thrills me to no end to have it rain so much in May (first time in my life, perhaps), it also postpones or prevents my income 'stream' of installing water-saving irrigation systems. No money, no Baja. For the first time in ages, this Memorial Day weekend will be a 'stay-cation' for Baja Angel and I and no typical trip to the San Felipe area.

Emerson - 5-22-2015 at 09:23 AM

Well, It all depends if we can make it thru Summit #3, if we do, or not, depending on how tired we are we can decide to go a summit loop and explore the PLR further; or if tired, dinner at Ensenada is always good; flexibility is our friend.

The squarecircle - 5-23-2015 at 11:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Emerson

Well, It all depends if we can make it thru Summit #3, if we do, or not, depending on how tired we are we can decide to go a summit loop and explore the PLR further; or if tired, dinner at Ensenada is always good; flexibility is our friend.

Greetings ALL, >>> Cowboy Canyon (#3 Summit) route might be impassable unless local ranchers have made some improvements, but then 4x4ABC AND Fernwell might want to give it a try! Surprising there is no comment from them. Those two guys with Merc "G" Wagons are pretty much unstoppable! However this route up #3 Summit may be just a little bit to much!!! >>>> Two quick ways into the Cowboy house >>>> 1. La Ventana running PLR backwards ie. E.To W. 2. Laguna Salada thu El Pozzo Junction to the base of Summit Road >>>> (A) Fun ride would be the Arroyo Grande to PLR (B) Longer and sennic route to PLR would be E.J. Heroes De La Independencia/Trinidad route if not blocked with new fencing without gates. >>>>Once we are moving, there is no hurry, after all we are in Mexico,right? >>>>Gas up in Heroes or Trinidad. Not so sure about gas a La Ventana now!!! Going up #2 Saiz is quick with dinner in Ensenada works. >>>> What say you??? Regards, sq.

David K - 5-24-2015 at 07:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Emerson

Fun plans!

"2. Laguna Salada thu El Pozzo Junction to the base of Summit Road"

Interesting spelling for COHABUZO JUNCTION! :light:

works for me!

As Bernie used to say: "No Hurry, no worry"! :cool:

In reviewing Gulick's book on Rancho Jamau (in Canyon #3, photo of shack posted above), page 80 Lower Ca Guidebook 4th edition, starting at the Pole Line Road "Left at Y" point on our trip last Easter:
A road to left ends after 0.8 mi. A trail continues a mile further to JAMAU, cattle camp occupied in winter.

This may put that shack further up the canyon than I presumed, and may be where Roy's Cowboy shack was he hiked to in the 80's?

Let me do a Google Earth map. Now, Gulick had to estimate the 1 mile hike after parking his Willys Jeep Wagon... so a little flexibility on that distance, but Gulick was an engineer and strived to be accurate.

David K - 5-24-2015 at 07:45 AM

Interesting, so the shack in Gulick's photo is inside the canyon, and on Google Earth it is at the END of the road coming down from the mountain top.

The road going up, from the Pole Line Road in 1960 as it seems to today, ends at the mouth of the canyon, at Mile 0.8.

The 1 mile foot trail to the shack is the quest of The squarecircle, to see if it is an auto road now, as shown on the Mexican topo map.

This map is facing WEST (north on the right) to show the most detail of the road and trail:

The shack is rancho or cattle camp 'Jamau' in the guidebook, and labeled on the map. Not to be confused with the other Jamau on the Summit Road (#1) used by SCORE.

Here is the topo map with notes added:

[Edited on 5-24-2015 by David K]

David K - 5-24-2015 at 08:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

the picture you posted is at the higher location, not the one in your map

Yes, thank you! New maps made.

PaulW - 5-24-2015 at 09:06 AM

Roy,
Been looking for El Pozzo. Can you tell me where you saw the place on a map? Otherwise wher did the name come from? Thanks, Paul
=======

2. Laguna Salada thu El Pozzo Junction to the base of Summit Road >>>> Regards, sq.

David K - 5-24-2015 at 09:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Roy,
Been looking for El Pozzo. Can you tell me where you saw the place on a map? Otherwise wher did the name come from? Thanks, Paul
=======

2. Laguna Salada thu El Pozzo Junction to the base of Summit Road >>>> Regards, sq.

Paul, you missed my post earlier today to Roy? El Pozzo Junction is his squarecircle way of saying Cohabuzo Junction. :light:

PaulW - 5-24-2015 at 09:14 AM

David,
You made reference to Gulick calling Canada Enmedio to be the same as Arroyo Jamau. Can you explain?

Gulick incorrectly called Rancho El Alamito located near the summit of #3. Can you enlighten me about that error Since Alamito is the arroyo leading to summit #1.

It is true there is an occupied rancho just south of summit #1, and I would be tempted to call it Rancho Alamito.
Thanks, Paul

PaulW - 5-24-2015 at 09:35 AM

Travelers heading for the 3 summit investigation should be aware of the fueling situation.
Heading south on Hwy 5 the last PMEX fuel is at Km 31. La Ventana at Km105 may have enough for one bike, but no more than that. So that means by filling up at KM31 you will have enough to do the Pole Line road and get to valley Trinidad, but any side trips for exploration means you will need extra gas cans on board.

From the south side of the 3 summits get fuel at Valley Trinidad PMEX. Its true you can refuel at Indepencia but the fuel lady does it from jugs and the process is painfully slow, and the cost is high.

Figure your distances: Mx5/Mx3 junction is km141on 5 & km195 on 3. Trinidad is km120. On Mx 3 the exit to get to Jamau biker place is km109.
Paul

David K - 5-24-2015 at 10:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

David,
You made reference to Gulick calling Canada Enmedio to be the same as Arroyo Jamau. Can you explain?

Gulick incorrectly called Rancho El Alamito located near the summit of #3. Can you enlighten me about that error Since Alamito is the arroyo leading to summit #1.

It is true there is an occupied rancho just south of summit #1, and I would be tempted to call it Rancho Alamito.
Thanks, Paul

Hi Paul,

The name Jamau is applied to multiple locations and features, probably causes most of the confusion?

Then (long after Gulick mapped Baja) the Mexican government produces topo maps of Baja, and sadly uses the wrong name for many features! Because it is a government document, many believe it to be correct or over-rides Gulick's names.

Now for your questions...
No map at the time had an arroyo named 'Enmedio', so what ever base map Gulick used called in Jamau or he believed that wash (Enmedio) was downstream from Cañon Jamau.

Incorrectly Alamito?
*Arroyo Alamito is the west flowing wash the summit road uses from the Portezuelo de Jamau (peninsular divide/ top of #1), per the topo (and only map with that name).
*A ranch in that wash (Gulick photo) was called El Alamito (by the ranch occupants, probably?), Gulick does not have the ranch or arroyo shown on his map.
*The photo caption calls it El Alamito, and the location is correct, west of the summit, in Arroyo Alamito.
*The topo has an abandoned El Alamito there, as well. (2003 Almanac)
I think Gulick was correct.

Ken Cooke has been calling the wash east of/ bottom of Portezuelo de Jamau "Alamito", but that is actually El Sáiz arroyo.

There was no ranch south or anywhere at the foot of Summit #1... again this is Arroyo or Cañon el Sáiz, not Alamito on the east side of the range.

If it helps, I can produce the maps with the names pointed out. I have Map 8 of the 2003 Alamanc in front of me, as well as Map 3 & 4 of the 2009 Almanac.

[Edited on 5-24-2015 by David K]

The squarecircle - 5-24-2015 at 11:27 AM

Thank you PaulW and David K for correcting me on the EL Pozzo vs. Cohabuzo misnomer. I don't see Cohabuzo Junction on my latest Baja California Almanac. Wrong statement from failing memory! Excellent info on gas availability in those areas, thank you. Are you planning on making this trek? >>>>> Best Regards, sq.

David K - 5-24-2015 at 01:12 PM

Thank you PaulW and David K for correcting me on the EL Pozzo vs. Cohabuzo misnomer. I don't see Cohabuzo Junction on my latest Baja California Almanac. Wrong statement from failing memory! Excellent info on gas availability in those areas, thank you. Are you planning on making this trek? >>>>> Best Regards, sq.

It isn't on an Almanac... SCORE created the name back in the 70's. The AAA maps back then called a nearby mountain Cohabuzo, so that's how SCORE got the name.

Three summits summary

PaulW - 5-24-2015 at 04:57 PM

Well this thread is all about a study of the three summits. Let me summarize what we all found.
Summit #1 is the north summit and is being used all the time. I now has a new section to bypass of the washout encountered for the 2012 San Felipe 250.
Most interesting summits are #2 and #3.
Summit #2 is the middle summit and is named Saiz after the Arroyo coming up from the north. In 1995 SCORE proposed to do a loop using both #1 and #2, but they got to many complaints of difficulty so the race was moved and #2 was not used. The Siaz summit was pre-run at that time by TMW using trucks and MC. In 2003 Ken drove it going south and had a hard time. No more recent reports.Location is 31 35.92, -115 36.6, el4600'.
Summit #3 is the south summit and is called Jamau. The track goes to/from the Pole Line Road over the top to the area near Indepencia. At this time it is believed unpassable. In 1972 and 1972 the complete pass was used for the Tecate Enduro, a hard core Biker event. In 1963-64 A MC club made it all the way, but they had to carry their bikes over/across drop-offs. Roy found it impassable in 1984. In the early 90s TMW on MC found steep drop-offs and did not continue. In 2004 Kens Jeepers turned around. No more recent reports.
===========
I keep learning all the time.
Found out the source of name Cohabuzo form a summit on an old AAA map
Located the abandoned rancho in canyon Alamito. Plotted the location of the occupied rancho at the top of summit #1. Got up to speed on Guilck’s Rancho Alamito. Located a bunch of Jamau’s as follows:
For sure we have lots of Jamau's
* The most common one the public is aware of it the biker lodging place near Nuevo Junction. On Highway 3 there is a sign at Km 109 directing travelers to that place. I have stayed there several times at 31 29.694, -115 42 296, el 3242’
* Then we have summit #1 that is most commonly used for SCORE races. The historical name for that summit is "Portezuelo de Jamau". The topo would call the summit EL Alamito after the name of the canyon leading to the summit from the southwest. At 31 37.631, -115 36.624, el4160’
* Canyon Jamau road Summit at 31 33.449, -115 34.6 Elevation ~5300’
* Then we have Arroyo Jamau shown on the Topo leading to the summit from the southwest. And we all are calling that summit Jamau (#3). Gulick probably called the west approach Canada Enmedio? In 1959.
* Then we have the location on the Topo at the intersection of the pole line road and the turn south to the Jamau summit. And the Topo labels that place as Jamau.
* Then on the north side of Summit #3 we have the cattle camp about a mile south of the Pole Line road on the track leading to the Jamau summit. We are calling that place “Rancho Jamau”(1960) or the “Jamau cattle camp”. Near 31 36.5, -115 35.9
* Cerro Jamau 31 33.0, -115 35.7 Approximately.
I discovered the track on the Topo for Canyon El Alamito is the track in the valley with all the locked gates. The SCORE track is west of the topo track on the side of the hill and it has no locked gates. That track has a few hard places with loose boulders.
I discovered the track on the south side of Siaz summit (#2) connects to the track from the Jamau summit (#3) by way of canyon La Pintada and canyon el Cantilar. The tracks show up on GE.
Yes, IMO it is correct that there is no canyon or wash on the north/east side of Purtozelo De Jamau. The road in all its variants just goes thru a small wash then down the face of the mountain until it reaches Canyon/Arroyo Siaz. However a study of the topo indicates the water drainage from the summit does end up in Siaz. And the easiest water flow did use the race road in some places on the way to the bottom.
Look at all the roads I plotted from GE

The above is my rainy day exercise.

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by PaulW]

David K - 5-24-2015 at 06:43 PM

Think you are pretty close Paul. Gulick called Enmedio 'Arroyo Jamau' with his photo. The fun is discovering the facts or something close! LOL

Correction

Ken Cooke - 5-24-2015 at 10:12 PM

In 2005, the Pole Line Group and I drove up the Summit #2 twice. We drove each time to a corral and turned around. Not out of difficulty, but to conserve gasoline.
We had a Suzuki to discover!

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by Ken Cooke]

Ken Cooke - 5-25-2015 at 11:27 AM

2) Cañada el Sáiz Summit Road (this is just south of #1, and easily visible from PLR below and on Google Earth). This seems to me the main route used by Rancho Huatamote (Guatamote).

This is the route that I drove up 2x in 2005. Confusion over the name Saiz led me to think this was a different road.

David K - 5-25-2015 at 02:50 PM

2) Cañada el Sáiz Summit Road (this is just south of #1, and easily visible from PLR below and on Google Earth). This seems to me the main route used by Rancho Huatamote (Guatamote).

This is the route that I drove up 2x in 2005. Confusion over the name Saiz led me to think this was a different road.

Yes, we are trying to clear up this confusion... Please see map.
#1 is original Pole Line Road summit and is called Portezuelo de Jamau.
#2 is the newest(?) summit and goes to Pole Line Road and across to Rancho Huatamote. It climbs up Canyon el Sáiz to the top, looks very steep, we can see it just south of where we camped on night 1, up that arroyo (El Sáiz) we were in and drove up partially as part of the detour around the locked gate.
#3 is further south from the other two, not visible from the desert, is shown on the INEGI topo as going through, but there is 1 mile gap that begins 0.8 mile for the Jamau Y (Left at Y).

#1: Portezuelo de Jamau (SCORE Race Summit, Orig. PLR 1942)
#2: Cañada el Sáiz (Rancho Huatamote road)
#3: Cañon Jamau (Jamau Cattle Camp Road/Trail)

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by David K]

Ken Cooke - 5-25-2015 at 03:55 PM

On one of my runs in 2005, I drove straight at the 'Y' and saw a small ranch tucked away down a hill, south of the access road that I had traveled on. A route up to the mountains was not immediately visible, but I wasn't looking for one. Also, at the locked gate, a dirt road goes east towards the bottom of Saiz wash, and an additional working ranch is located there.

One more thing - the road up Summit #2 is not steep - nothing near as crazy as the insane stairstep that goes up Summit #1. If you review the first 2-3 minutes of the "Wrong Way Enmedio" video, you will see the Toyota Tacoma following our Jeeps right up to the top.

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by Ken Cooke]

David K - 5-25-2015 at 04:26 PM

On one of my runs in 2005, I drove straight at the 'Y' and saw a small ranch tucked away down a hill, south of the access road that I had traveled on. A route up to the mountains was not immediately visible, but I wasn't looking for one. Also, at the locked gate, a dirt road goes east towards the bottom of Saiz wash, and an additional working ranch is located there.

One more thing - the road up Summit #2 is not steep - nothing near as crazy as the insane stairstep that goes up Summit #1. If you review the first 2-3 minutes of the "Wrong Way Enmedio" video, you will see the Toyota Tacoma following our Jeeps right up to the top.

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by Ken Cooke]

Thanks Ken!

Summit #2 sure looks steep from the bottom... far steeper than #1 and is a reason the racers protested when SCORE tried to make it a course.

#1 Portezuelo de Jamau, 1942 Pole Line Road

[Edited on 5-25-2015 by David K]

Absolutely Fabulous!

Ken Cooke - 5-25-2015 at 05:31 PM

I believe the small Volkswagen race cars would be the only class complaining about Summit Road #2. One of the Jeep drivers described the Summit road as being, "Absolutely Fabulous" - but, that is coming from a Jeep driver in the "Wrong Way Enmedio" video. Lol!

Wrong Way Enmedio

https://youtu.be/ipo3wi6sdR4

[Edited on 5-26-2015 by Ken Cooke]

4x4abc - 5-25-2015 at 06:09 PM

I have driven #2 - walk in the park. Looks steep, but isn't

PaulW - 5-25-2015 at 06:56 PM

And now that #1 has a new bypass the really difficult washed out sections no longer are used. Been up and down all versions of #1 many times and none of us should have had any issues driving it.
I never had any knowledge about #2 and am looking forward to driving it and when I do that I will skip #1 and concentrate on #3 from both sides.
The road leading East just N of our detour road leads to the rancho where the land owner hangs out and he is the one responsible for the locked gate. The tracks from his bulldozer that rebuilt the lock gate and the turnaround on the south side of the lock gate took that road. As Harald mentioned that rancho or cow camp is called Guatamote/Huatamote. So that would be another good place to visit.
Do you guys remember the shooting? That was when a biker was shot when he came to a barricaded fence gate. That happened near the Jamau biker place. Many possibilities exist for the exact location as there are many fences and gates all with reasonable roads. Nobody ever published the coordinates of the shooting.

4x4abc - 5-25-2015 at 11:21 PM

why don't we visit that rancher guy more often. Bring presents. Ask what he needs. Become friends. All gates have keys.

The squarecircle - 5-26-2015 at 12:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

why don't we visit that rancher guy more often. Bring presents. Ask what he needs. Become friends. All gates have keys.

Greetings Harald, >>>> I have met and talked to some of the hombres that lay claim to that area around Huatamote and was dully impressed with their dishonesty and aggressive macho mannerism and turned down an invite to their encampment. Two of them were carrying long arms and flashing phony looking photo ID. They had phony police ID and were getting insistent that we accompany them to there camp. Not liking the situation, I told everybody to get mounted and we are living NOW!!! These were bad guys hiding out and did not want to test my resolve with me holding a large bore short arm. They walked we drove on. This was the area were a biker was shot someone reported. Was also told by the Mex. military to not go into that local because of bad people hiding there. And now it is an area of large locked gates and a bulldozer and for what reason? What are they protecting or maybe hiding there??? None of my business, right? That was a long time ago and things do change, but why the locked gate? Well, youth wants to know!! >>>> Hay >>>> Harald are you and Karl up for this trek ??? Best Regards, sq.

t

[Edited on 5-26-2015 by The squarecircle]

[Edited on 5-26-2015 by The squarecircle]

[Edited on 5-26-2015 by The squarecircle]

David K - 5-26-2015 at 08:15 AM

On one of my runs in 2005, ... Also, at the locked gate, a dirt road goes east towards the bottom of Saiz wash, and an additional working ranch is located there....

For clarity, per the map and satellite images, the Pole Line Road locked gate is on the east bank climb-out of Arroyo el Sáiz... Arroyo el Sáiz it is what the detour road begins in, heading south past the gate, and what we camped in on night 1.

Our Camp was at the 'bottom' of Sáiz.
East of the locked gate is the small mountain 'Cerro Huatamote', and at the northwest base of it is Rancho Huatamote (spelled Guatamote by Gulick in the '62 book).

Emerson - 5-27-2015 at 07:49 PM

I guess this is not happening this weekend right?

David K - 5-28-2015 at 09:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Emerson

I guess this is not happening this weekend right?

Roy is ready, he told me Tuesday ( 2 days ago).... TW may be, but no word from him lately?

4x4abc is not coming up from La Paz and I am not going back south yet.

Perhaps after the Baja 500... ? Heat doesn't bother me, but it has been very mild so far this year.

TMW - 5-28-2015 at 09:55 AM

I'm doing a Mojave desert trip starting Monday. Probably will skip the 500 race. I told Roy (Sq) I would call him when I get back and we could set a date to check out summit #3. I'm thinking maybe the weekend of June 13 and 14 or sooner or later. Everyday is like Saturday to me.

So far we have me (TW), Emerson, and Roy (Sq). I'll check with Phil (XRphlang)

David K - 5-28-2015 at 10:01 AM

Excellent... maybe I can make it then too? I want to meet Emerson, if he can go as he seems like a cool Nomad four wheeler!

Emerson - 5-28-2015 at 10:19 AM

Oh, just realized it get really complicated after this weekend.

30-31 - No problem.
6-7 - Baja 500, Im ok with this date, I don't mind the race.
13-14 - I cant join you on this weekend, sorry.
20-21 - Fathers day, risky.
27-28 - Too hot?

David K - 5-28-2015 at 10:34 AM

20-21: Bring your father! :light:

27-28: It's never too hot in Baja California! :cool:

David K - 6-21-2015 at 09:36 AM

Bump for next weekend expedition by TW and The squarecircle.

David K - 6-21-2015 at 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Wow, great find David! Look how nice the road through the wash is back then...

Looks freshly made near the summit, too.

Here is Rancho Jamau (1 mile from bottom of summit #3) on April 11, 1960:

[Edited on 5-24-2015 by David K]

The shack in Jamau canyon... Rancho Jamau on map I posted in this thread.

Ken Cooke - 4-6-2019 at 06:46 PM

Rick Russell traveled from Ojos Negros into the Laguna Salada region. He video recorded the event, and I believe he also has a map of the region that he created himself. Here is a short preview to his video - now available on DVD.

edit: His Baja and Sonora maps are out of print: http://www.sidekickoffroad.com/catindxF.htm

[Edited on 5-1-2015 by Ken Cooke]

A must have video for anyone thinking of Baja 4 wheeling.

David K - 4-7-2019 at 09:17 AM

Ken, this looks like the video that TW mentioned in the thread discussing the San Felipe Off Road map?
Posting it there rather than in an obscure, 4-year-old thread, would seem logical.

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2019 at 11:00 AM