BajaNomad - San Quintin quieting down?

San Quintin quieting down?

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motoged - 5-24-2015 at 10:28 AM

It is interesting reading both sides of the situation regarding farm workers. Whoever JJJ is, he seems to be providing some relevant info beyond just personal "jabs".

Why don't more folks get offended by David Marsden's thinly veiled threats and personal insults?

Cartoon to follow shortly.... :rolleyes:

DianaT - 5-24-2015 at 10:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

It is interesting reading both sides of the situation regarding farm workers. Whoever JJJ is, he seems to be providing some relevant info beyond just personal "jabs".

Why don't more folks get offended by David Marsden's thinly veiled threats and personal insults?

Cartoon to follow shortly.... :rolleyes:

It didn't take long and the "cartoons" are very offensive and downright crazed.

And I agree that JJJ has provided relevant information on the side of the workers.

JoeJustJoe - 5-24-2015 at 10:52 AM

San Quintín has been compared to the maquiladora factories that sprang up along the Mexican side of the US border, except in the San Quintín valley, the commodity is food.

This is one of the best articles that explains what's going on in Baja and why the Farmworkers are striking, and it also talks a little about what role the US plays in all of this.
_________________________________________

Why Mexico’s Farmworkers Who Harvest Our Food Are on Strike

The green Driscoll’s label on the organic berries that I buy each week are a comforting symbol of a family-owned company that got its start in California. Sometimes the berries are marked “Product of USA,” but more often than not, they are labeled as originating in Mexico. That is because Reiter Affiliated Cos., which sells berries through its affiliate BerryMex under the Driscoll’s label, grows much of its produce in Mexico. On its website Reiter claims to be “the largest fresh, multi-berry producer in the world and the leading supplier of fresh strawberries, raspberries, blueberries and blackberries in all of North America.” Now, the farmworkers picking many of those berries are on strike, demanding a change to the brutally impoverished conditions under which they live.

The strike, taking place in San Quintín, in the Mexican state of Baja California, came just in time for Farmworker Awareness Week. As many as 50,000 mostly indigenous workers have stopped harvesting produce for more than a week in protest of labor law violations. They have carried out bold actions, including blocking traffic on a major highway. About 200 workers were reportedly arrested over such actions and have complained of mistreatment at the hands of police. What they want is for their basic needs to be met, such as obtaining health care, getting overtime pay and vacation days, and being paid wages higher than the dismal $8 a day that most of them earn.

David Bacon, a longtime labor journalist and photographer and author of “The Right to Stay Home: How US Policy Drives Mexican Migration,” has visited the fields of San Quintín. He told me in an interview on “Uprising” that “all of the ranches ... are producing for the U.S. market, they don’t produce for the Mexican market at all. In fact,” he added, “they were started to supply the U.S. market especially with tomatoes and strawberries at a time when the only place in the United States that was growing and harvesting them was Florida.”

Years ago the sparsely populated San Quintín area was converted into an industrial agricultural center by growers who imported indigenous workers from southern states such as Oaxaca. Bacon compared the dozen or so ranches in the area to the maquiladoras, or factories, that sprang up along the Mexican side of the U.S. border. He described the conditions of the labor camps where workers live as “really awful and terrible.”

Starting in the 1970s many of Baja California’s workers began to cross the U.S. border through California into the Central Valley, and even to states like Washington. “These are all connected communities,” maintained Bacon, which is why the San Quintín strike is big news among farmworker communities in the U.S. such as Washington’s Skagit County.

Sadly, it is not very big news elsewhere in the U.S. When the strike began last week, the Los Angeles Times was the only English-language media outlet in the country to initially cover it. (Since then, a week later, The Associated Press and others have begun to report on the strike.)

L.A. Times reporter Richard Marosi deserves great credit for being one of the few mainstream reporters focusing on this under-covered issue. His December 2014 multipart exposé “Product of Mexico,” was the result of an in-depth investigation of the treatment of Mexican farmworkers at the hands of growers who distribute to U.S. markets. Marosi described “rat-infested camps,” some without functioning toilets. Workers routinely have their wages illegally withheld, and many face debt after being gouged by the overpricing of necessities sold at company stores. Pay is so low that it amounts to less than one-tenth of what U.S.-based farmworkers earn.

“The contrast between the treatment of produce and of people is stark,” wrote Marosi. The lack of U.S. media attention is partly why the mistreatment of the workers who pick our produce continues, says Bacon, because mainstream media tend to have a blind spot when it comes to Mexico, as well as to the struggles of working-class people overall. “We eat the fruits and the vegetables that these workers are producing,” explained Bacon, “[but] the workers themselves are invisible.”

But San Quintín’s farmworkers are refusing to remain invisible any longer. Using their collective leverage, they have stopped picking produce—at the peak of the harvest season—until they can negotiate better conditions and wages for themselves. Already there are some shortages in the U.S. market being reported. Time is of the essence for negotiations to be completed as strawberries, cucumbers and tomatoes start rotting unpicked in the fields.

After the mistreatment of San Quintin’s workers came to international light last December, growers pledged to fix the problems and created the International Fresh Produce Social Responsibility Alliance. But their promises for better housing, decent wages and health care have not yet materialized.

Bacon related that the workers “are negotiating with the state government,” rather than the growers directly, “because many of the conditions that they are complaining about are actual violations of Mexican law.” They want the government simply to enforce existing laws and force growers such as BerryMex, Del Cabo, Rene Produce and others to improve working conditions. They also want charges against those protesters who were arrested to be dropped. Marosi, who is in Baja California reporting on the strike, told KPBS, “They’re saying if there’s no progress, then they’re going to continue striking, and no one’s ruling out blocking the highways again.”

It is telling that the federal government in Mexico has completely ignored the strike. President Enrique Peña Nieto, according to Bacon, has “substantially weakened Mexican labor laws” through his major labor reforms after the last election. The reforms have helped employers hire temporary workers at lower wages and have been used as a “magnet to attract investment.”

Here in the U.S., the situation is not much better. Bacon clarified that “the workers in Baja California are part of a larger indigenous farmworker community that also exists in California.” The treatment of U.S.-based workers is only marginally better.

Poor treatment of the workers who pick our produce is no accident. It is a predictable outcome of a system designed to have a bottleneck controlled by fewer and fewer corporations, in which production is moved to the cheapest and most convenient locations and then exported where needed. Food is no longer a necessity—it is a commodity. And farmworkers, whether in Mexico, the U.S. or elsewhere, are exploited like any other workforce producing high-tech gadgets, mining precious metals or sewing designer clothing.

Fortunately, it has now become trendy to “know where your food comes from.” Ultimately it is the U.S. public eating the produce that Mexico’s striking farmworkers pick. We have to acknowledge that much of our food is harvested by the hands of people struggling just to survive. Bacon summed it up, saying, “we have to stop treating these workers as though they are invisible, as though their lives don’t count.”

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/03/27/why-mexicos-far...

wessongroup - 5-24-2015 at 02:17 PM

Why would one expect food production to be any different than "cars" .. et al

And another issue which has not been brought up, or perhaps I haven't seen it ...

Worker Safety, and negative environment impacts from Farming operations producing food and fiber .... which were also part of the UFW political argument to achieve their goals for the workers in the field and was based on "FACTS" developed through science .... in the early 70s

A result of the banning of DDT in 1972 ... with and the substitution of Organophosphates in the production of Food and Fiber in the United States ...

Believe Mexico still produces DDT ... but, not for use on their crops ... .Crops grown in Baja are sampled by both the FDA and CalEPA for illegal pesticide residues ... growers typical don't like to use something which will cause them to lose their production for that season nor the possible bad press they will bring to other "Growers" .... and/or the Industry

Poor wages doesn't usually have the overall political impact, that negative impacts to Health and the Environment has ... exceptions noted

Say Pete ... invest in the stock market ... It really helps the folks on the bottom rung of the ladder .. so to speak :biggrin:

[Edited on 5-24-2015 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 5-26-2015 at 04:28 PM

It's interesting to note that what's going on in San Quintin, with farm workers labor unrest, is also going on here in the USA. Not so much in California, because California, now has some strong labor laws, and I think the farm workers, are paid fairly well, but I may be wrong in some locations.

I'm talking about in Washington State, and the Sakuma Berry Farms, where there has been labor unrest, strikes and protests for years. I was shocked to learn on the Sakuma Berry Farms, they have child labor, and the farms are exempt from some basic labor protections.

The farm workers at Sakuma wanted $14 dollars an hour, but they settled for $12 dollars an hour, depending on a few variables like how many baskets of fruit they pick or if they make their work quotas.

I guess that's pretty good, considering what the farm worker make in Mexico. But like in Baja, where the growers claim there is opportunity to make between $5 dollars and $9 dollars an hour. In Washington on the Sakuma farms, they claim the farm laborers can make up to $27 dollars an hour! Of course, if the workers are like Superman, maybe they can, but for everybody else, it's not next to impossible, it is impossible.

However, there are still lots of problems at Sakuma, for example, since the union has been pushing for the $14 dollars an hour, Sakuma, went out and used and abused the H-2 Visa Program, claiming it couldn't get enough workers at it's farm, when that wasn't really a problem, because they had seasonal workers Mexican immigrants, with papers who worked for them for many years, and really it was part of a union busting strategy to get rid of the troublemakers, and keep wages low. One of the main reasons Sakuma settled with the farm workers, is so they could bring in guess workers from Mexico, because under the H-2 visa program, they can't bring in workers, under strike conditions.

And where there is labor unrest on farms, it seems Driscoll's is always mentioned, because the Sakuma farms is one of Driscoll's main suppliers.

This really is not Baja related, but I thought I would post it anyway, to give a preview what people living in Baja can expect in terms of labor unrest, because this labor problem up in Washington has been going on now for a few years, and I think we can expect the same thing to happen in Baja. This labor problem will probably go on for years.

It's hard to say who is winning the labor dispute in Washington, but clearly the farms workers pay and conditions are slowly getting better. So I think there is real hope in Baja.

________________________________________________
From a Facebook page that wants readers to Boycott Driscoll's & Sakuma Berry Farms for unfair labor practices.

Farmworkers are some of the most underpaid and hardest working and yet are exempt from the most basic legal protections, including child labor law. They work and live in terrible and unsafe conditions. For simply asking for better conditions, breaks and a higher piece rate pay, management has retaliated by splitting up family housing based on gender, hiring security guards and creating a hostile work environment. Sakuma has broken agreements with workers and stopped negotiating completely.

Familias Unidas por Justicia (United Families for Justice) was founded by these workers who are urging a boycott of Driscoll's and Sakuma Berry Farms even though it may harm their livelihood.

In March 2014, the corporation announced that they planned to apply for H-2A guest workers and planned to discontinue a summer youth farm labor program. A large number of Familias Unidas por la Justicia farm workers who've worked for several years and who went on strike in 2013 are between the age of 12 and 21. Shortly after, Familias Unidas por la Justicia secured a restraining order against the firm, recognizing the farmworkers as a union engaged in concerted activities that were protected by state law.

The berry firm also chose to settle a wage and hour lawsuit with Familias Unidas por la Justicia farm workers for a record $850,000 instead of admitting guilt for systematic wage theft. Even with these unprecedented legal wins, Sakuma has held out from returning to the negotiation table.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1591696167770442/

grizzlyfsh95 - 5-26-2015 at 04:49 PM

The only solution seems to be to have the government confiscate all of the farm land, and run the farms. They could pay the labor $53 per hour with 1 month vacation, free housing and medical. Throw in free food and transportation, and it looks like the right answer. Forget about the consequences of these actions. The end justifies the means. And there you have it folks, the solution that the left really wants. It has worked so well in Cuba and the USSR, why not here and in Mexico?

JoeJustJoe - 5-26-2015 at 05:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95

The only solution seems to be to have the government confiscate all of the farm land, and run the farms. They could pay the labor $53 per hour with 1 month vacation, free housing and medical. Throw in free food and transportation, and it looks like the right answer. Forget about the consequences of these actions. The end justifies the means. And there you have it folks, the solution that the left really wants. It has worked so well in Cuba and the USSR, why not here and in Mexico?

Well actually after the USA stole land from Mexico, the Mexican government under the brutal dictatorship of Porfirio Díaz confiscated the land from Mexican farmers, and that in part caused the rebellion by Mexicans like Madero, and my heroes Pancho Villa, and especially Emiliano Zapata, who fought for the farm land issues.

So the greedy farm owners that include Mexican politicians because they also own the farms better remember their history of the Mexican revolution in 1910.

Forget Cuba and the USSR, how about the rich European countries with strong unions, over there is some European countries workers on average work about 35 hours a week, have about six weeks of vacation, cheap health care, long maternity leave for both sexes, and offer good hourly pay or salary for their workers.

Here is the states we're lucky to get two weeks vacation. its' true there is higher unemployment in Europe than the US, and their economy is now in worse shape than the US, but not by much. Everybody is hurting because of the race to the bottom, because companies go where they can pay slave wages.

chuckie - 5-26-2015 at 06:13 PM

That pretty much clarifies it for me...Problem solved....History through a haze....If we put our minds to it, we can be just as good as Greece...What a goal....USA stole land from Mexico? Really?

wessongroup - 5-26-2015 at 06:21 PM

Ever hear of Manifest Destiny ... and "piece work" and/or "carrot and the stick"

"but I may be wrong in some locations." ... for sure

Farm work, is still a difficult occupation typically for the very poor, and uneducated around the world .... Ag isn't a high paying industry in most cases for those in the production end of things

And is one of the few true "production" industries which remain in the United States ... same for Mexico, just at a different level of production costs and market price

However, given the news coming out of Texas and a few other locations, weather will be causing some problems in production .. which will only get harder, as population continues to increase and weather changes modify "growing locations" world wide :biggrin:

Interesting what we® are seeing in the 21st Century ... HUH

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by wessongroup]

Bajaboy - 5-26-2015 at 08:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95

Well actually after the USA stole land from Mexico,

Yes, and who did Mexico steal the land from..... :light:

4x4abc - 5-26-2015 at 10:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

That pretty much clarifies it for me...Problem solved....History through a haze....If we put our minds to it, we can be just as good as Greece...What a goal....USA stole land from Mexico? Really?

looks like you gotta hit the books to find out
but with Google and Wiki it's a lot easier now
but you still need to read

short version:
American settlers in Texas - back then part of a foreign country (Mexico)
interesting parallel Israel/Palestine
settlers were about to be kicked out
since the Americans wanted some of the Mexican territory anyway, they started a war with Mexico
no surprise, Mexico lost
winner takes all
so the US took Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, parts of Colorado and Wyoming
well, technically the US bought that land for $15 million
but what can you do when you have a gun to your head

so, the rest of the world sees it the way it is - the US annexed (stole) a lot of land from Mexico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

FUNNY THing

captkw - 5-26-2015 at 10:48 PM

Gringos..usa folks don't get that (4+4)..and it one of the true crap in the books !! Look around,,san jose ca. san fran,,,santa clara,soledad,,,hell A..opps ..LA..san simion... all mex not too long ago..Or the proper..California alta

JoeJustJoe - 5-26-2015 at 11:47 PM

That's a pretty good summary 4x4abc.

Some people already mentioned manifest destiny, which some American thought was the divine and God given right that the American people own the land from coast to coast and Texas.

I have also read expansion plans into Mexico was also because of slavery issues.

James Polk campaigned for the US Presidency, supporting expansion of the US into Mexico. And unlike other politicians, when James Polk won, he followed through on his expansion plans into Mexico.

Clearly the US was the aggressor, and Mexico fought a defensive war to try to protect their land.

Of course in grade school we're taught about the Alamo and how the Mexicans attacked the peace loving Americans at the fort, killing them all, and that forced the American to defend themselves, and go to war against Mexico, while always remembering the Alamo.

Somewhere along the way, The Americans defeated the Mexicans, and occupied Mexico, but although the US defeated Mexico, they offered Mexico a sweetheart deal, all of Texas, outright, and also California and the other southwest states for a great price of $15 million dollars, or pesos, and cancelling some of their debt. I think the American story goes somewhere along those lines on the US side of the border.

C'mon, clearly the land was taken from Mexico, and whatever was agreed to was clearly under duress, and usually contracts are null and void, if they're signed under duress. The fact is that the US did defeat Mexico, and really beat them badly, but it was another case of a stronger nation taking advantage of a weaker nation at the time.

I'm not complaining about the land was stolen, but a fact is a fact. This is what happens during wars, especially over 100 years ago, the winners of war, would take land away from the losers of the war. The $15 million was just a token gesture, so the history books in America could always show how powerful, yet fair America is.

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

4x4abc - 5-27-2015 at 12:16 AM

and with that 1846 war we have another connection to the farm workers revolt in San Quintin.
The US army used cheap immigrant labor (soldiers) in that war. Newly arrived immigrants (mainly from Ireland and Germany), were lured into the army by promising them citizenship. Army leaders (mostly protestants) treated the immigrant soldier workforce (Mostly catholic) so badly that many deserted. They went on to support the (catholic) Mexican forces.
So, nothing new - the powerful have always treated the powerless like dirt. And it never ends well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Battalion

rts551 - 5-27-2015 at 07:12 AM

4 June. Next week is the next major meeting, unless it gets postponed because of the 7 June elections.

4x4abc - 5-27-2015 at 09:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R

you have a stunning repertoir of responses - how do you come up with those brilliant things?

David K - 5-27-2015 at 09:51 AM

There was just Texas and Alta California... all the land west of Texas was Alta California, and that was divided into the new states (territories first, ex. California which never was a territory before statehood).

The other issue was that while part of Mexico, the region of Alta California (and Baja California, too) was ignored or poorly governed by Mexico City. Americans were immigrating in and even before the Mexican War, Alta California residents considered leaving Mexico or even becoming part of England.

I highly recommend these books to get a better understanding of events before statehood:

rts551 - 5-27-2015 at 10:23 AM

Gee, I wonder if San Quintin is quieting down? :?:

JoeJustJoe - 5-27-2015 at 10:24 AM

The reason why I brought up Sakuma Bros Farms in the first place, to show what to expect in the coming months. The public relations firm hired by companies Driscoll's, BerryMex, and others are going to go all out putting out stories like this that give the farm workers the "potential" to make a great deal of money, but is really the old "carrot and stick" approach. In the case here, "Sakuma Bros" are only really offering $10 dollars an hour, with the potential to make a lot more, but in reality only 10% of the farm workers, can work that hard, probably the 20 something athletic types.

Now some may even think Sakuma is offering a great deal, but if I was a worker, I would play the odds, and want the $15 dollars flat pay, that way you don't kill yourself, and risk some fellow employee stealing fruit from your basket, and putting it in their basket to get the higher hourly pay.

But what I really want to point out is the PR work by Sakuma, that's very obvious here, Sakuma farms is making a lot of these Facebook posts, along with their brown nosed employers, and maybe a few unrelated members. My favorite reply was from the former Sakuma employee who said they worked on the farm from the age 7 to age 22! ( working at the age of 7 in the USA!)

We also also seeing these types of PR work, on social media sites with the current labor farm unrest in Mexico, and San Quintin, and I find it disgusting, although it's not as obvious as the "I love Berries" Facebook site, but it's there if you scratch the surface. Some of these people are just plants who join a Facebook site, or even Baja forums to push a narrative and hopefully sway public opinion.

I really don't care which side of the labor dispute people take, but I don't like to be played for a fool, and I think there are some people on social media sites that are pushing an agenda for whatever reason, maybe they're on the payroll, or have their own skin in the game.

______________________________________________
Isn't it live great on the "Sakuma Bros Farms."

Sakuma Bros. offering large pay incentive for farmworkers

Sakuma Bros. Farms has introduced a new pay structure in which farmworkers can earn up to $27 an hour with a base pay of $10 an hour, but a labor group that has been battling with Sakuma for a couple of years doesn’t like the plan.

New CEO Danny Weeden* said the workers will receive $10 an hour with the potential to earn a production bonus of up to $17 an hour, based on the number of pounds picked for strawberry and blueberry crops.

Later in the season during the blackberry harvest, workers could earn up $33 an hour because blackberries are more difficult to pick, he said.

The Burlington company used to pay on a piece-rate scale in which workers earn wages dependant on the number of berries they pick, Weeden said.

“The idea and reality is that farm labor is harder and harder to find,” he said. “So we’re putting together the best program, and we want to attract the best of them. We want the highest-skilled workers, and we’re going the extra mile to attract the best workers.”

Familias Unidas por la Justicia has been pushing to negotiate with Sakuma Bros. over wages and work condition.

Familias President Ramon Torres said the group wants to negotiate a flat rate of $15 an hour because not everyone will be able to achieve the production bonus.

“Maybe 10 percent of the workforce will reach that ($27) maximum,” Torres said. “The rest are probably going to make the minimum ($10 an hour). So the majority of the workers prefer to get the $15 an hour guarantee.”

http://www.goskagit.com/all_access/sakuma-bros-offering-larg...
_______________________________________________
Here are some comments from "I love berries" Facebook page, notice the comments are all positive towards Sakuma farms.
----------------------

Check out the new update from Sakuma Farms! Once again raising the bar!
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The Seattle Times announced our new pay system for Sakuma harvest pickers. It’s one of the highest pay scales the state has seen, and we are proud of that.
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The $15 an hour request to pick berries is ridiculous as it has no minimum pounds picked requirement. This new pay scale seems very fair and rewards the workers for their hard work. As a former Sakuma employee from the age 7 to age 22 I have the highest respect for Sakuma Brothers. There was honor to work in the fields and it was FUN to earn your own school clothes money. We were paid for what we picked and happy to do so.
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Just another day in paradise... What are your thoughts? Season is over, housing and visitation rights were given to the employees, good wages, free busing and child care... Does your job do that?
-----------
I love how people have the nerve to call the migrant workers, "oppressed." As if they have no choice of where they work. I don't understand how they are oppressed when they chose to travel and work for Sakuma. Don't like your job, don't work there. Simple solution.
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Stay strong Sakuma Family! Let the truth prevail smile
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Just goes to show you the protesters don't have the correct facts!
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Why haven't these people just found a different job? This is ridiculous!
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When will they realize how much they DO have working for Sakuma? Housing for your entire family, child care, transportation, etc, etc is not the norm for employment. The opportunity to put in the effort to succeed on your own and then move on and up in the word. *THAT* is the American dream. Not handouts and employers carrying your {and your family's} weight. Employees work for the employer, not the other way around.
----------
This is ridiculous! They don't owe their workers all this at all.
______

https://www.facebook.com/skagitberrylover?fref=ts

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

durrelllrobert - 5-27-2015 at 10:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

The reason why I brought up Sakuma Bros Farms in the first place, to show what to expect in the coming months. The public relations firm hired by companies Driscoll's, BerryMex, and others are going to go all out putting out stories like this that give the farm workers the "potential" to make a great deal of money, but is really the old "carrot and stick" approach. In the case here, "Sakuma Bros" are only really offering $10 dollars an hour, with the potential to make a lot more, but in reality only 10% of the farm workers, can work that hard, probably the 20 something athletic types.

Now some may even think Sakuma is offering a great deal, but if I was a worker, I would play the odds, and want the $15 dollars flat pay, that way you don't kill yourself, and risk some fellow employee stealing fruit from your basket, and putting it in their basket to get the higher hourly pay.

But what I really want to point out is the PR work by Sakuma, that's very obvious here, Sakuma farms is making a lot of these Facebook posts, along with their brown nosed employers, and maybe a few unrelated members. My favorite reply was from the former Sakuma employee who said they worked on the farm from the age 7 to age 22! ( working at the age of 7 in the USA!)

We also also seeing these types of PR work, on social media sites with the current labor farm unrest in Mexico, and San Quintin, and I find it disgusting, although it's not as obvious as the "I love Berries" Facebook site, but it's there if you scratch the surface. Some of these people are just plants who join a Facebook site, or even Baja forums to push a narrative and hopefully sway public opinion.

I really don't care which side of the labor dispute people take, but I don't like to be played for a fool, and I think there are some people on social media sites that are pushing an agenda for whatever reason, maybe they're on the payroll, or have their own skin in the game.

______________________________________________
Isn't it live great on the "Sakuma Bros Farms."

Why are you comparing Washington state wages of $10 per hour to San Quintin wages?

Mexico’s federal government agreed to pay part of the workers’ wages in order to meet their demands for a minimum daily wage of 200 pesos, or about $13. PER DAY.

You are constantly pinging on others for comparing Mexico crime rates to those in the USA.

mtgoat666 - 5-27-2015 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R

i have been checking my mail box every day, but i still haven't received my reality check.

JoeJustJoe - 5-27-2015 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert

God I hate it when member copy long posts, instead of just posting what they want to talk about.

I'm not comparing Washington's pay rate to San Quintin wages?

Washington farm workers make in one hour what San Quintin workers make in 12 hour work day!

What I'm comparing is the same labor unrest in Washington and San Quintin, it's almost exactly the same complaints, low wages, long hours with no OT, bad treatment by managers, firing of workers when they speak up, and horrible living conditions that aren't fit for animals, let alone humans.

What I'm really comparing is the public relation types work, these deep pocket growers use to sway public relations, including social media.

I'm not sure what you mean here, " You are constantly pinging on others for comparing Mexico crime rates to those in the USA."

I complain about those who constantly post negative news about Mexico, and Baja, to make Mexico seem like a war zone, when it really isn't, and the vast majority of homicides in Mexico are drug related in certain parts of Mexico, not the whole country, and homicides are in areas where tourists usually don't visit.

Wesson posted there in the OT there were 29 dead in Baltimore over the holiday weekend.

How come, there weren't the same warnings about visiting Baltimore, that we hear about visiting a city like Tijuana, that recently had a marked increased in homicides these last two months.

You think anybody is actually afraid to visit Baltimore, like they might be scared to visit Tijuana?

Oh I almost forgot the 200 peso promise the Governor make is not likely to happen for a variety of reasons, including legal issues.

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 5-27-2015 at 12:30 PM

Think many already know ... not to visit Baltimore, at this time ...pretty much the same for Gaza and other locations ... and I believe there are "Travel Warnings" for parts of Mexico

Say, were those Cartel killings in Baltimore .. just asking :biggrin:

As stated, I support Unions and/or the Farm Workers, always have ... period ... My father was a farm worker in the depression and my wife's grandfather was a farm worker ... and died in Salinas, in the early 70s while still a farm worker, her grandmother worked in the "Garment District" in LA... non union and for "piece work"

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by wessongroup]

norte - 5-27-2015 at 12:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I complain about those who constantly post negative news about Mexico, and Baja, to make Mexico seem like a war zone, when it really isn't, and the vast majority of homicides in Mexico are drug related in certain parts of Mexico, not the whole country, and homicides are in areas where tourists usually don't visit.

Glad many don't visit Alcapulco, TJ, La Paz, and on...and on. Let face it. Mexico is a corrupt, crime ridden, 3rd world country. I know their are police shakedowns, property theft, bribes, etc everyday in Baltimore as well. Hey Joe. I don't live Baltimore for a reason.

Go at your own risk....

[Edited on 5-28-2015 by BajaNomad]

JoeJustJoe - 5-27-2015 at 01:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Think many already know ... not to visit Baltimore, at this time ...pretty much the same for Gaza and other locations ... and I believe there are "Travel Warnings" for parts of Mexico

Say, were those Cartel killings in Baltimore .. just asking :biggrin:

Does it matter if there was cartel activity in Baltimore? 29 dead is surely more dead on a long weekend than were killed in Tijuana, yet there are no calls for travel alerts, advisories, or warning of caution in Baltimore like we have in certain areas of Mexico.

However, there has been a few warnings about Ferguson and St Louis the last few months, like the warning from France for it's citizens traveling to the US.

French warned travelers to avoid Ferguson area

I would also guess those 29 killings in Baltimore were mostly gang related that was fueled by drugs.

Wesson spare me the personal commercials about you and your family, because you know what I think of them, and your pro union stance from past statements seem to support both sides of unionizing, where you pretty much said, in a John Kerry way, that you were for unions, before you were against unions.

So what I would like to here from you Wesson is a direct answer, do you support the farm workers in the San Quintin valley over the growers? It's not a trick question, it should be an easy yes or no answer.

4x4abc - 5-27-2015 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

There was just Texas and Alta California... all the land west of Texas was Alta California, and that was divided into the new states (territories first, ex. California which never was a territory before statehood).

The other issue was that while part of Mexico, the region of Alta California (and Baja California, too) was ignored or poorly governed by Mexico City. Americans were immigrating in and even before the Mexican War, Alta California residents considered leaving Mexico or even becoming part of England.

I highly recommend these books to get a better understanding of events before statehood:

David,
in those early years many countries did not have the resources to govern all their land holdings. They were just territory. In the US no different than in Mexico. Oregon, for example, was territory for many years before it became a state (1859). Baja California became a state very late in 1953

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by 4x4abc]

wessongroup - 5-27-2015 at 04:50 PM

I didn't qualify my statement ... what is it that YOU don't understand about supporting Unions and Farmworkers

And that i have personal knowledge and/or experience with Unions and Farmworkers appears to trouble you, for some strange reason

When working for CalEPA and the EPA ... we in fact developed Worker Safety Laws and regulations to PROTECT both the workers the general public and the environment ..... pound sand and get over it Pete

JoeJustJoe - 5-27-2015 at 05:11 PM

Wesson this isn't the OT, so quit trolling.

I'll ask again, it's a very specific question in regards to the farm workers in San Quintin vs the growers today. I ask again because of your changing views towards unions, and the fact you're on many social media sites, and I haven't seen any posts from you supporting the San Quintin farm workers.

Please leave the personal commercials out of it. That doesn't impress me, and I have no way of knowing if it's true or not.

Here is the question again.

So what I would like to here from you Wesson is a direct answer, do you support the farm workers in the San Quintin valley over the growers? It's not a trick question, it should be an easy yes or no answer.

wessongroup - 5-27-2015 at 06:13 PM

Asked and answered ... as for trolling ... you started it

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

I didn't qualify my statement ... what is it that YOU don't understand about supporting Unions and Farmworkers

And that i have personal knowledge and/or experience with Unions and Farmworkers appears to trouble you, for some strange reason

When working for CalEPA and the EPA ... we in fact developed Worker Safety Laws and regulations to PROTECT both the workers the general public and the environment ..... pound sand and get over it Pete

would add, that both sides have to be taken into consideration in a situation like this ... there are always good growers, not all are bad ... regardless of nationality and/or location

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

As stated, I support Unions and/or the Farm Workers, always have ... period ... My father was a farm worker in the depression and my wife's grandfather was a farm worker ... and died in Salinas, in the early 70s while still a farm worker, her grandmother worked in the "Garment District" in LA... non union and for "piece work"

[Edited on 5-27-2015 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 5-28-2015 by wessongroup]

mcfez - 5-28-2015 at 09:19 AM

These pay structures are nearly imposable to meet for the average farm worker. The number of units to required for these so called bonuses are often set so high....it simple cannot be meet by the field worker. Extreme long hours (more than 12hours per day) and heavier field loads is what's required. It's pure bull......these Sakiuma Bros. PR statements.

Picking berries (not strawberries) can consume up to an hour to harvest a flat.......and no one gets paid $33 for a flat. No one. That worker would have to get three flats per hour....or work 14-16 hours per day to get maybe $14 on the scam of pay structures.....all this working in the hot hell of the day.

Hopefully I wont get the stupid cartoons for participation in this post....

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

[Edited on 5-28-2015 by mcfez]

chuckie - 5-28-2015 at 09:48 AM

How many people does Sakuma employ in the San Quintin area?

JoeJustJoe - 5-28-2015 at 12:13 PM

What interesting to me is the Sakuma brothers grew up farming and picking berries at around the age of 8, and the family was even interned after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, but they were lucky and got their farm back.

You would think they might have sympathy towards the Mexican farm workers, in Washington, but then again, since they endured such harsh conditions themselves, they might like children who suffered from battered child syndrome, and perhaps as adults they repeat those same negative harsh conditions/ behaviors on their employees.

Oh I think what's happening on the "Sakuma Bros" is relevant, to show the same exact thing that was going on in the states is now going on in the San Quintin, and you have the same players like Driscoll's that is doing more and more business in Mexico to escape the labor laws, union activities, and higher wages in California. Now Washington as been the battleground the last few years, where slowly conditions are getting better for the farm workers, and labor laws toughened, although many employees ended up getting fired for speaking out.

You also have the fact that Sakuma Bros seems to be exploiting the H-2A federal guest worker, to break the labor unions, to break the long time Mexican workers with papers, in an attempt to keep the wages very low and not being forced to pay overtime.

The H2A Federal guest worker program is also being abused in high tech industries, as a way to keep wages low in high tech fields.

Quote: Originally posted by mcfez

These pay structures are nearly imposable to meet for the average farm worker. The number of units to required for these so called bonuses are often set so high....it simple cannot be meet by the field worker. Extreme long hours (more than 12hours per day) and heavier field loads is what's required. It's pure bull......these Sakiuma Bros. PR statements.

Picking berries (not strawberries) can consume up to an hour to harvest a flat.......and no one gets paid $33 for a flat. No one. That worker would have to get three flats per hour....or work 14-16 hours per day to get maybe $14 on the scam of pay structures.....all this working in the hot hell of the day.

Highlights from the article:

Sakuma speaks up: Farm labor pariah defends his family’s business
Steve Sakuma knows everything about this farm.

He can tell you how his father got it started, how his son runs it now and what he hopes future generations will do with it.
A Hard History

Sakuma Bros. wasn’t always such a big company, and the labor equation used to be a lot simpler.

Steve Sakuma was born grew up on the farm in the late 1940s, when berries were mostly picked by kids. There were more than 1,000 young people from around Skagit Valley working in the fields back then.

“If you were a kid, 8 years old and up, you were out on the field. If you wanted a social life in the summer time, you were out on the field,” Sakuma says. “You were out there 14 hours a day, seven days a week from the day you got out of school until the day you got back.”
-----------

Four of the eight Sakuma brothers were living and working at the Burlington farm by 1941 — when the Japanese military attacked Pearl Harbor.
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By May, the brothers in Burlington were interned as well. Atsusa Sakuma found a neighboring family to look after the farm.

Six of the eight brothers were drafted in the U.S. military straight out the camps. And unlike many other Japanese Americans, when they returned, they got their property back and kept on farming.
----------

“The labor unrest is not about Sakuma,” Sakuma’s son and farm president Ryan Sakuma said in an open letter in October. “It’s about labor activists’ opposition to a federal guest worker program.”

The H-2A federal guest worker program allows agricultural companies to bring in workers from other countries to fill temporary labor shortages.

Sakuma Bros. Farms used the program to bring in more than 150 Mexican guest workers for the harvest last summer. As a requirement of the program, they had to pay an elevated minimum wage of $12 per hour to both the guest workers and the locals they hired.

read the rest here:

http://seattleglobalist.com/2014/02/10/sakuma-speaks-farm-la...

BajaLuna - 5-28-2015 at 01:19 PM

I live in berry country up here in Washington State, and the living conditions have improved somewhat over the last few years. But like with anything, there's plenty of room for improvement!

chuckie - 5-28-2015 at 03:04 PM

Maybe you in that area could emulate what the Sakuma family is doing in San Quintin?

BajaLuna - 5-28-2015 at 04:23 PM

I'm already an activist in many other causes!

But thanks for the suggestion, what about you, how are you improving society and/or the planet?

chuckie - 5-28-2015 at 04:55 PM

Like you, many causes....very many...Nothing in San Quintin tho, and that's what this thread is all about, eh?

4x4abc - 5-28-2015 at 07:53 PM

like any good conversation - it sometimes wonders off. What's with looking a a few related issues?

JoeJustJoe - 5-28-2015 at 08:33 PM

You can always sign the United Farm Worker" petition if you want to help. So that's doing something.

Admittedly, these kinds of petitions work better, if you're trying to get rid of somebody, like a Glen Beck, where the sponsors of "Fox News" were contacted, causing them to become alarmed, which in turned, caused the sponsors to threaten to pull their advertising if Beck's show wasn't pulled. Sure enough it worked, and there are other examples, where this kind of petition drives have been successful.

So this can work, if enough complaints are heard by US companies like Walmart, Krogers, Albertsons/Safeway, and others.
_______________________________________
United Farm Worker

Sign the petition to support striking Baja Calif. farm workers

For the past 6 days, farm workers in Baja Norte’s San Quintín Valley have been on strike denouncing abysmally low wages, 12-hour days with no overtime, obligatory 7-day work weeks, and maltreatment. Worker Ana López says, “It is time for us to stand up… There are people who think that because we come from pueblos, we are ignorant about our rights.”

The United Farm Workers of America is standing in solidarity with the workers from San Quintín and we ask that our supporters do the same. Ana works for Driscoll supplier Berrymex, whom workers claim that in addition to violating wage and hour laws, also fails to pay into workers’ social security (which is supposed to give workers access to healthcare and a pension), leaving them with nothing when they go to make a claim.

Demand that the grocery retail industry hold powerful agribusiness companies such as Driscoll accountable. Please sign this petition. We will be turning this in to top grocery retailers around the country, including Walmart, Krogers, and Albertsons/Safeway.
____________________________

Dear retailer,

I am appalled by reports coming out of the export ag region of San Quintín in Baja CA. Having learned that workers receive such low wages that they often cannot afford to feed their families a decent meal everyday, I cannot stand by and do nothing. I implore you to hold your suppliers accountable for abiding by the law, paying decent wages, and treating their workers with dignity. I believe worker testimony claiming that Driscoll growers are failing miserably in this regard. I ask that you demand more from them.

http://action.ufw.org/page/s/baja

grizzlyfsh95 - 5-28-2015 at 09:07 PM

I might suggest self immolation. Works for the Tibetans.

chuckie - 5-29-2015 at 12:05 AM

I thought that was the Buddhists in Vietnam..or Bakersfield

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-29-2015 at 01:13 AM

bajacamper - 5-29-2015 at 08:43 AM

Finally, some good advice.. Way to go Griz.

Bajaboy - 5-29-2015 at 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajacamper

Finally, some good advice.. Way to go Griz.

Out of your 37 posts, are any related to Baja?

bajacamper - 5-29-2015 at 04:42 PM

I should have known better than to jump back into this leftie loony bin thread. Sorry.

Bajaboy - 5-29-2015 at 06:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajacamper

I should have known better than to jump back into this leftie loony bin thread. Sorry.

Another worthless post

I'm guessing you're a typical family values type of guy.

Anyways, hope we get some gentle rain soon. I'll be spending most of my summer fortifying the casita in preparation for a long hurricane season.

JoeJustJoe - 6-5-2015 at 09:22 AM

Baja farmworkers win pay hike in landmark deal, but fall short of goal

Highlights:

Strike ends as farmworkers accept pact with Baja growers that falls short of 200-peso daily wage

Landmark agreement: Striking Mexico farmworkers win wage hikes in Baja California

"Coward! Rat!" farmworkers shout at Baja California governor after announcement of labor accord
------

Volatile farm labor strike that crippled exports from one of Mexico’s key agricultural regions ended Thursday night with an unprecedented accord that boosts wages as much as 50% for thousands of laborers in Baja California.

Although the agreement is considered a landmark achievement for a farm labor movement in Mexico, the mood was subdued after labor leaders learned that the federal government was pulling its offer to provide subsidies to reach the 200-peso daily wage rate -- about $13 -- sought by laborers.

The agreement reached after a six-hour negotiating session calls for a three-tiered compensation system. Large farms will pay workers 180 pesos per day; medium farms, 165 pesos; and small farms, 150.

Since most work at large agribusinesses, the wage increase amounts to about $4 per day for many of the estimated 30,000 workers in the region 200 miles south of San Diego.

“This isn’t the agreement that laborers were hoping for … but we made significant gains,” farmworker leader Fermin Salazar said after the meeting.

After the meeting at a salon in a San Quintin restaurant, Baja California state officials beat a hasty retreat, fearing that news of the accord could upset laborers. Gov. Francisco Vega de Lamadrid had to push his way through an angry crowd yelling epithets and banging on his SUV.

“Coward! Rat!” yelled the crowd.

read the rest here:

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-baja-farm...

greengoes - 6-5-2015 at 09:42 AM

Although the agreement is considered a landmark achievement for a farm labor movement in Mexico, the mood was subdued after labor leaders learned that the federal government was pulling its offer to provide subsidies to reach the 200-peso daily wage rate -- about $13 -- sought by laborers.

The proposed government subsidy to the workers wages was BS from the jump. They just don't have the funds for it. And it was the governor of Ensenada, Kiko Verga, who proposed the state government subsidy, not the federal government.

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