BajaNomad - Thousands protest in TJ against gay marriage

Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown

With apologies to cretins everywhere...

Kinda like the old white male privilege thing....folks feeling usurped by the presence of those who don't fit in the rut of "normalcy".

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by motoged]

Much of this discussion, and today's politics in general, make me embarrassed
to be part of the older white male demographic.

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 11:03 AM

I'm not sure the ability to distinguish between right and wrong is limited to homosapiens. I think people give other higher ordered animals' mental capacity too little credit.

Acceptable--Unacceptable would be more appropriate terms for lower animal, but we shouldn't call it a "pecker order."

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by KurtG

Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown

With apologies to cretins everywhere...

Kinda like the old white male privilege thing....folks feeling usurped by the presence of those who don't fit in the rut of "normalcy".

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by motoged]

Much of this discussion, and today's politics in general, make me embarrassed
to be part of the older white male demographic.

I think that's the basis of this..uh...discussion, Kurt. Now you can change this. Start with a sassy little black dress.

motoged - 9-28-2016 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

"Bagemihl's research shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex"

That is a significant difference, "behavior" opposed to sexual reproduction and/or sexual contact

Now I know how to classify groups like the Hell's Angels and all men who hang out in beer bars. Must be a homo thing.

Dennis,
Be careful....when sitting at the bar with other guys telling fishing stories, off-road stories, "I coulda been a contender" stories, and even discussing lost missions....wouldn't want others to think you are gay now, would you? And spending all that time at Anthony's may backfire ....again. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 11:09 AM

Ewe'r onto something here, Ged. Ya see, I don't care what people think of me, unlike the gays and their p-nut gallery.

KurtG - 9-28-2016 at 11:33 AM

I think that's the basis of this..uh...discussion, Kurt. Now you can change this. Start with a sassy little black dress.

Nah, the little black dress makes my butt look big.

wessongroup - 9-28-2016 at 11:43 AM

There are animal societies and the word "person" isn't limited to humans.

Also what is understood to be true today by the majority of people, "ain't necessarily so".

For example, not long ago people thought there were multiple gods, now most believe in one god. That belief is moving in the right direction.

Animals with a moral compass:

http://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.h...

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by SFandH]

One could then ask ... do ethics also exist in ALL animals populations .... which would also seem remote

As the concept of "Morality" is typically not associated with other vertebrates and invertebrates ... and Social Behavior would not be the same as Morality and/or Ethics when studying animal populations

"Cooperation and sociality are widespread in animals. Seemingly altruistic behaviors, like raising the offspring of others instead of trying to reproduce, can largely be explained by the shared genetic heritage between interacting individuals. Most complex animal societies are actually families in which group members are related and therefore share a high proportion of their genes. The cooperative and often complex collective action that arises from such family groups is a product of the interaction of individuals seeking to maximize their own evolutionary fitness.

"Genetic structure clearly influences the evolution of animal sociality. But do genes themselves influence an individual’s altruistic behavior? As new genomic tools become available, one of the challenges in the study of animal societies will be to determine how, and to what extent, individual genes underlie social behavior. For example, recent studies in wasps suggest that differences in the expression of a relatively small number of genes may be linked to large social differences in closely related species (Toth et al. 2007). Over the next decade, new research may determine if similar genetic mechanisms underlie social behavior in different types of species, including both invertebrates and vertebrates."

http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/cooperation...

Perhaps some are viewing this topic from the standpoint of Anthropomorphism ... or even Lamarckism to some degree :biggrin:

btw the implication of the impact of genetics on behavior ... may give some concerns ... As that is viewed by many as racist ... that is to say ... Behavior is learned and is not transmitted by gene's which would appear to be incorrect

Have always enjoyed studying animal behavior .... a very interesting field of study which can provide additional knowledge in understanding how we "make a living" on this planet

Perhaps that is what is going on at Anthony's ... the study of animal behavior :biggrin:

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by wessongroup]

SFandH - 9-28-2016 at 12:17 PM

One could then ask ... do ethics also exist in ALL animals populations

I think it's logical to assume the larger the brain of an animal the more complicated the mental capabilities.

Although, as exhibited every day in the news, capabilities are often not realized.

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by SFandH]

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 12:57 PM

Survival and power are the only animal instincts relevant to this discussion.

What "some" may think of ME .......................

MrBillM - 9-28-2016 at 04:06 PM

............Or Anyone Else, is unimportant.

I'M satisfied with my reasoning AND conclusions.

The opinions of others who disagree ARE Defective.

motoged - 9-28-2016 at 04:08 PM

Thanks Dennis.....what would we do without your leadership....oh, I remember....you don't care.....what others think.

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 04:17 PM

Right. I don't...and won't.

DavidT - 9-28-2016 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

There are animal societies and the word "person" isn't limited to humans.

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by SFandH]

One could then ask ... do ethics also exist in ALL animals populations .... which would also seem remote

Have always enjoyed studying animal behavior .... a very interesting field of study which can provide additional knowledge in understanding how we "make a living" on this planet

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by wessongroup]

Field studies

Mexitron - 9-28-2016 at 06:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

As far as homosexuality being "unnatural", here's a list of the animals, reptiles, and birds known to partake--it appears that same sex bonding of one type or another is indeed part of the natural world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_hom...

=======================

Not buyin' any of it. Creature companionship other than human, is unrestricted by social mores that are part of an advanced species.
Gay bugs? Queer fish? Pure BS.

Not sure I follow your thinking--so gay is only gay if you have morals in society that call it so? Where did the taboos come from? Likely Judeo/Christian/Islam Abrahamic traditions from long ago--is that what you are basing your beliefs on? What was their motivation for such rules? Are those situations still an issue in the modern day?

DENNIS - 9-28-2016 at 06:30 PM

Nothin like any of that. I'm just sayin' bugs and worms etc arn't gay, and that's the ridiculous idea behind this nonsense. They're attracted to any sex creature of their own kind for reasons of their own...probably security, bonding as the research mentions, and probably have no idea of sex differences, but gay? Attracted to another of the same sex by choice even? C'mon.

.

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by DENNIS]

Bugs and Worms .....................

MrBillM - 9-28-2016 at 08:43 PM

Also eat S-hit, don't they ?

redhilltown - 9-29-2016 at 12:44 AM

Bill Bill Billy...

There you go again. No matter how hard you try, no matter the conversation, your nose and observations end up somewhere in the vicinity of a male buttocks. I could scroll back through dozens of postings through the years...and you always "end" up there.

You have never talked about the joys and wonderment of the female body...yet...

D'OH!!!!

Study: As a species, humans inherit murderous tendencies

wessongroup - 9-29-2016 at 08:59 AM

The study looks at violence through the lens of phylogenetics — the study of evolutionary relationships, or how closely related species seem to share common traits.

http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/nation/study-as-a-species-h...

MALE BUTTOCKS ?

MrBillM - 9-29-2016 at 09:33 AM

Girls don't S-hit ?

HM ?

It appears that redhilltown has the Boy Butt fixation.

Those Buggers DO like to stick together, don't they ?

motoged - 9-29-2016 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown

Bill Bill Billy...

There you go again. No matter how hard you try, no matter the conversation, your nose and observations end up somewhere in the vicinity of a male buttocks. I could scroll back through dozens of postings through the years...and you always "end" up there.

You have never talked about the joys and wonderment of the female body...yet...

D'OH!!!!

Unlikely....his narcissism doesn't allow him to find pleasure outside his distorted sense of his own wit.

He is like Trump in that calling him out only escalates and encourages his diatribes.

But he does seem to hang in on this conversation about LGBQ issues...perhaps he is looking for some guidance seeking a way out of his soulless darkness.

DENNIS - 9-29-2016 at 11:26 AM

But he does seem to hang in on this conversation about LGBQ issues...perhaps he is looking for some guidance seeking a way out of his soulless darkness.

He's hanging in on this conversation? I have seen very little here from Bill other than responses to attacks.

Mexitron - 9-29-2016 at 11:37 AM

Nothin like any of that. I'm just sayin' bugs and worms etc arn't gay, and that's the ridiculous idea behind this nonsense. They're attracted to any sex creature of their own kind for reasons of their own...probably security, bonding as the research mentions, and probably have no idea of sex differences, but gay? Attracted to another of the same sex by choice even? C'mon.

.

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by DENNIS]

Don't see why not--the distribution of estrogen and testosterone in humans accounts for a lot of where we lean towards a mate--animals have hormonal influences too so why couldn't they prefer the same sex if they are so inclined genetically?

BajaGringo - 9-29-2016 at 12:38 PM

Don't really care to get in the middle of this debate as in these types of discussions nobody ever manages to change the opinions of others. All that is usually accomplished are insults creating a lot of hard feelings. I'm too old and too busy to worry about what other people think at this point in life.

But here is some interesting food for thought, since the discussion now carried over into the animal world...

10 Ocean Species That Challenge Gender Role Stereotypes

Hanging in Poking Fun at Perverts

MrBillM - 9-29-2016 at 01:33 PM

Given the degree to which most here "Bend Over" in praise of Queer practices, a degree of balance is appropriate.

A cursory viewing of the volume produced on this thread by a number of participants would show that MY comment volume is significantly less than many.

That said, given that little time is involved and zero cost, the recreational value alone during breaks from other pursuits is well worth it.

Seriously.

Well, OK, not so seriously.

OK, back to other pursuits.

Getting ready for my favorite holiday.

I'm busily sorting and packing our Halloween decorations for transport.

Ya gotta LOVE a day celebrating DEATH.

DENNIS - 9-29-2016 at 03:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Do fish and geese produce estrogen and testosterone?
Answer that before you pursue your point further.

DENNIS - 9-29-2016 at 03:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo

10 Ocean Species That Challenge Gender Role Stereotypes

Meaningless to a discussion of human behavior. They aren't gender roll stereotypes for our species. They have no societal restrictions.

.

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by DENNIS]

motoged - 9-29-2016 at 03:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Do fish and geese produce estrogen and testosterone?
Answer that before you pursue your point further.

Dennis,
Here is a start of a reply to your question:

http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/20/beheco.aru019.full

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=8070.0

Can you forward any evidence that fish and birds do not have estrogen/testosterone levels?

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by motoged]

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by motoged]

DENNIS - 9-29-2016 at 04:14 PM

Well...I don't have the time nor inclination to read your book length references, Sr. Ged, but so what? Different species have different methods of teaming up, most often for security. To classify this as verification of a human life style is, if not disingenuous, clearly and argumentatively, stooped.
Human homos are drawn to each other for reasons much more convoluted than species survival. In fact that issue is contradictory to their companionship motivations, but ducks will be ducks. They just like to hug now and then, just like football players.

JoeJustJoe - 9-29-2016 at 04:15 PM

This thread is going on way too long!

Like I said, it's well know in the psychology field, that homophobic men are themselves most likely to be gay, and in the closet.

A good example, is ex-GOP Senator, Larry "wide stance" Craig, who happened to also be the author, of "don't ask, don't tell" DADT in the US military. Of course Larry Craig, was as homophobic as they came, until he was arrested in that Minnesota airport bathroom.

This is why when I read homophobic men bashing gays, I wonder if it's more about self-loathing and latent desires, or remembering a past experience.
___________________________________________

Study Reveals Homophobic Men Are, In Fact, More Likely To Be Gay

Does homophobia have anything to do with homosexual tendencies?

Apparently, the answer to this age-old question is an unabashed “yes.” A past study, published by the American Psychological Association, was designed to “investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than non-homophobic men.”

read the rest here:

http://elitedaily.com/news/world/homophobic-men-aroused-gay-...

wessongroup - 9-29-2016 at 04:49 PM

Agree with Ron ... invertebrates are a bit different than most vertebrates when it comes to "reproduction" ... which changed significantly with the evolution of separate sexes and the Amniotic egg

At times it would appear that lower forms (subjective in social discussions) have many advantages over the higher forms ... while in school there were many that held that the order Insecta would be the ultimate surviver on this planet ... due to a number of factors .. which I still find plausible given the "nature" of the human species ...

Not sure about the over all "psychology" of invertebrates .... and most other vertebrates ... except the human species, and at times I'm not to sure on that information and/or theories

Lets hear it for Limpets and Abalone .... does anyone care about their sexual preferences ...

btw good show down that way Ron

[Edited on 9-29-2016 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 9-30-2016 by wessongroup]

JC43 - 9-29-2016 at 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by JC43

@ redhilltown
Would you please keep in mind that English is not my nature tong!
Next question: Are you capable to speak more than one language??? I mean YOU!
I can write in English (more or less good) I can write in French. I can write in German.
If you speak three languages you are multi-lingual. If you speak two languages you are bi-lingual.
If you speak one language you are an American.
Now, what is your criticism about?

So you can spew hate and ignorance in 3 languages, Dennis can do it in maybe 2 languages, and mr bill can do it in 1 language.
Luckily, y'all are old and short for this work, and no one listens to you old farts.

Your contribution to this thread is considered as "Cow Manure" !
You show me ONE SINGLE post where I used any word which is considered to be hateful. BTW, I am in the 40th. That is considered `old´for you.
Well your post looks like a one from a 6 year old elementary school boy.
Yes out of your point of view I am old. Give a damn!

DENNIS - 9-29-2016 at 06:49 PM

Can you forward any evidence that fish and birds do not have estrogen/testosterone levels?......

How did I miss this pearl of Napoleonic Law...er....logic? It's like being required to prove in court something didn't happen.

.

[Edited on 9-30-2016 by DENNIS]

Changing the World One Post at a Time ?

MrBillM - 9-29-2016 at 07:02 PM

Yeah, Sure, You Betcha !

The BEST truly humorous point to be taken is how many people "think" that their pointless pontifications have any potential to influence and direct opinion here where few (none ?) are less than firm in their beliefs.

BUT, it is Fun.

Especially, when the discussion gets down into the weeds discussing Bugs being Queer Buggers.

There's gotta be a punch line to a [Bad ?] pervert joke in there somewhere.

Give it time.

Assuming no surprises, we've got plenty of that.

"And the beat goes on"

willardguy - 9-29-2016 at 07:28 PM

show of hands.....when was the last time any of these antique blowhards could even be considered "relevant"? im ready for some "paul's liquor"dirt island sand shots! :yes:

redhilltown - 9-30-2016 at 12:36 AM

YEAH...the thread has gone on too long as Joe said and I stand accused.

And there is no point in refuting deeply closeted gay men like Bill...without a sounding board he has nothing...without his need to irritate people he is just alone...and while I guess that is sad, I ain't gonna weep much.

Yeah, Sure, You Betcha

MrBillM - 9-30-2016 at 10:05 AM

MY "contributions" to any discussion are MY (recreational) reward to MYSELF.

As brilliant as many might be, they don't REQUIRE a response to be satisfying.

NOBODY should feel an obligation to respond.

That's OK.

Enjoying my "educational" edification efforts as the mood strikes and KNOWING that they're THERE to be read is good enough.

Any sparring is simply a bonus.

Let's just "keep on keeping on" having a good time.

JoeJustJoe - 9-30-2016 at 11:54 AM

Today the majority of Americans, 54% favor same-sex marriage, and even among young republicans, 61% they also favor same-sex marriage.

The only ones who aren't aboard are old fart conservatives, and only about 27% of older conservatives favor same-sex marriage, which leaves about 2/3 thirds of old fart conservatives opposing same-sex marriage, because they view it as an outrage to their moral universe, or because of self-loathing latent desires are making them uncomfortable.

The good news is most of these old farts will be dead in the next few years, and their bigotry will die with them, because the new generations are more accepting of differences in sexual orientations of others.
________________________________________

61% of young Republicans favor same-sex marriage

Young people continue to be the strongest proponents of same-sex marriage. And as public support for same-sex marriage continues to grow, the gap between young and old is nowhere more striking than within the Republican coalition.

Today, 61% of Republicans and Republican leaners under 30 favor same-sex marriage while just 35% oppose it. By contrast, just 27% of Republicans ages 50 and older favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry.

This generation gap among Republicans comes against a backdrop of rapidly changing public opinion overall on the issue. More than half the public (54%) now favors allowing gays and lesbians to legally marry, a record high in Pew Research surveys, in keeping with findings from other recent polls. Democrats and Republicans remain on opposite sides of the issue, with 69% of Democrats and Democratic leaning independents favoring same-sex marriage compared with 39% Republicans and Republican leaners.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/10/61-of-young-...

SFandH - 9-30-2016 at 12:00 PM

Wonder what the numbers are in Islamistan.

A Thundering SILENCE ...........................

MrBillM - 9-30-2016 at 03:55 PM

.............Is usually the response from Liberals whenever the subject under discussion is Islamic attitudes and Homosexuals.

Finding themselves stuck between the opposing positions of two groups that they LOVE to love.

Simple Salman can quote ALL the polls that he'd like, but most (All ?) polls taken of Muslims (anywhere) has shown a substantial majority condemning those ALPHABET folks.

JoeJustJoe - 9-30-2016 at 05:25 PM