BajaNomad

Mexico, Canada insist on three-way deal as NAFTA talks resume

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Cliffy - 8-30-2018 at 05:47 PM

"low tolerance to immigrants"? HMMM- NOT exactly what I said is it?
Seems the word "illegal" was left out of the quote. Why? Kinda convenient isn't it? But what does one expect from JJJ

As I said, BOTH sides of the isle are afraid to enforce the current regulations. If you don't like them, change them. That's fine with me.

I also notice JJJ doesn't have the guts to answer my second question. Wonder why?

Timinator - 8-30-2018 at 06:15 PM

Joe, you're really kind a jerk. All you do is tear apart other people, their lives, there family. You got problems man. Sucking off the public sector tit and the tax payer $ your whole life is what's insane, not Trump voters.

DaliDali - 8-30-2018 at 06:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  


I also notice JJJ doesn't have the guts to answer my second question. Wonder why?


Joe is a keyboard warrior coward. You, me and everyone else knows it.
Some call him out on it from time to time, and others don't get involved.

Joe's entire being is to blame someone else, won't promote personal responsibility for one's life and whitey is to blame for everything.

Give him a bit....he will be along to shame you, berate you, call you a bigot, racist and a poser, and go on to do the same with me.

Wait for it...

DaliDali - 8-30-2018 at 07:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
You're on to something Cliffy...

I am still looking for some answers or reasons why, that the K-12 Cali public school system is still near the bottom of the barrel in National rankings.

Despite the billions upon billions ($ 50) in annual funding, and almost on every ballot, there is another attempt to float some school bonds.

A proposal to increase this by billions is on the table now. Giving a per student jump by $6500.
Assembly Bill 2808

No judgements here.....just a reason or answer why, Cali can't put out a higher scoring student, year after year, despite the money being pumped that way.
Is it just a funding issue?
I think it's reasonable for the ratepayers to ask why this low ranking continues.

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/california/californ...



This probably has a lot to do with it:

"Only 64.1% of California students have parents who are fluent English speakers, the smallest share of any state in the country."

Also, only 7 states spend less than California on a per-pupil basis, according to this article.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/02/08/geog...



I am sure that is a large component of the low rankings.

Makes one wonder then, why it is that the Cali government has in place "magnet" illegal immigration policies, keeps those magnets and proposes for more.
Gavin Newsom, candidate for Cali governor, is proposing free, universal style health care for illegal aliens, State wide.

A very attractive magnet.
And another proposal is on the table to up the per student expenditures by $6500 per pupil per year.

I guess it's easier to have the ratepayers up the ante, than it is to hone in on one of the primary reasons those rankings are at the bottom of the barrel, year after year.

No judgements.....just an observation.

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 8-30-2018 at 08:59 PM

Wow, the pick me up by the bootstraps boys, are ganging up on JoeJustJoe!

Cliffy, a few years ago, many ultra conservatives, claimed it wasn't the legal immigrants, that they hated, just the illegal ones they hated.

I really never really bought that line, and figured they were just trying to hide their xenophobia and they wouldn't want a Mexican or other immigrant living next door to them regardless of the kind of papers or lack of papers they had.

Fast forward to the Trump era, and Laura Ingraham, recently said on "Fox News" that she isn't just bothered by illegal immigrants, but in some cases legal immigration too. Cliffy, do you think Laura Ingraham, is racist? David Duke, loved what Ingraham said.

Ingraham added: “Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they’re changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don’t like,” she said. “From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed. Now, much of this is related to both illegal and in some cases legal immigration.”

Regarding your second question you ask, "" Does any sovereign country in the world have the right to enforce their own borders?"

I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because I'm pretty much open borders, and believe if Americans, can pretty much visit and even live in most countries like Mexico, then Mexicans, and other immigrants, should be able to live in America, especially if the US government and big business makes it very easy to them to come to the US and work, while talking from both sides of their mouths on the issue.

Do I think countries have a right to control their borders, absolutely the same way the Highway patrol, controls the speed of cars on the freeways, and tickets, the speeders.

If a Mexican immigrant, jumps the border without papers, give them an equivalent of a speeding ticket, because after all the first violation is pretty much like an administrative infraction, or it used to be under all the previous presidents.

I think DaliDali, hit the nail on the head, when he said, he thought universal style heath care for illegal aliens, in California, would make a very attractive magnet.

Oh wait, don't Mexicans already get their own Seguro Popular, in Mexico, so why would it be an very attractive magnet, to young people/workers, who rarely need health insurance, and already have health insurance in Mexico?

I would also think California, attracts, jobs, for immigrants, because California, has an economy bigger than most small countries, and there is a need for immigrants, for many industries in California.

And besides, unemployment is low in California, so what's the beef, if the business industry is offering all these jobs, for anyone who wants a job?



[Edited on 8-31-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Timinator - 8-31-2018 at 05:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  


I also notice JJJ doesn't have the guts to answer my second question. Wonder why?


Joe is a keyboard warrior coward. You, me and everyone else knows it.
Some call him out on it from time to time, and others don't get involved.

Joe's entire being is to blame someone else, won't promote personal responsibility for one's life and whitey is to blame for everything.

Give him a bit....he will be along to shame you, berate you, call you a bigot, racist and a poser, and go on to do the same with me.

Wait for it...


Got it! "The only winning move is not to play" Done.

DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 06:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  


I also notice JJJ doesn't have the guts to answer my second question. Wonder why?


Joe is a keyboard warrior coward. You, me and everyone else knows it.
Some call him out on it from time to time, and others don't get involved.

Joe's entire being is to blame someone else, won't promote personal responsibility for one's life and whitey is to blame for everything.

Give him a bit....he will be along to shame you, berate you, call you a bigot, racist and a poser, and go on to do the same with me.

Wait for it...


Got it! "The only winning move is not to play" Done.


See what I told you, Joe jumps right in, in full keyboard warrior fashion, and passes the buck "It's someone else's fault and it must be whitey"

A bit of fun now and again is good, I enjoy the banter back and forth to a degree with Joe. He is burdened with a very heavy load of rank hypocrisy, that has been dumped in his lap recently.

We should give him a break now and again.



[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

BajaTed - 8-31-2018 at 09:17 AM

Back to Cali public schools. They are the elephant in the room here in the OC.
In the great OC, many school districts would be less than half the size they are if it wasn't for the influx of illegal alien parents & children.
This in turn cause the teachers and districts to love them for saving their pensions.
The largest concentration of private schools is in the OC, the public and private schools have de facto segregation and not a whisper is mentioned about it.
The "Perfect Storm " continues unabated by all here in Cali

SFandH - 8-31-2018 at 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  


In the great OC, many school districts would be less than half the size they are if it wasn't for the influx of illegal alien parents & children.


It's estimated there are 250,000 undocumented students in CA public schools.

There are 6,220,413 students total (2017)

250,000 / 6,220,413 = 0.040 or 4.0 % undocumented students. Doesn't sound like a big problem to me.

https://29v0kg31gs803wndhe1sj1hd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/sd/cb/ceffingertipfacts.asp


DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  


In the great OC, many school districts would be less than half the size they are if it wasn't for the influx of illegal alien parents & children.


It's estimated there are 250,000 undocumented students in CA public schools.

There are 6,220,413 students total (2017)

250,000 / 6,220,413 = 0.040 or 4.0 % undocumented students. Doesn't sound like a big problem to me.

https://29v0kg31gs803wndhe1sj1hd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/sd/cb/ceffingertipfacts.asp




Yet you said previously, that the most likely scenario of the low school rankings was due to non english speaking parents and their non english speaking kids. Legal or otherwise.

The bottom line in all this, is that not only do the Cali kids get a lousy education, those non english kids get a lousy education.
Year after year of bottom of the barrel rankings prove this out.

K-12 administrators, teachers and staff not so much.

The makers of the rules in Sacto know this is a big problem in the rankings, yet go right out and attract more of it all, with magnets that attract more of the very root of the problem.....non english speakers.

I don't know the solution to all this....but it's clear, either up the ante by the ratepayers or drastically slow down the influx of non english speakers with the magnets.

Politifact says the claim that Cali is one of the highest taxed States in the nation is mostly true.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jul/11...

It seems pretty clear that the makers of the rules in Cali are hell bent for a full true.


[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

TMW - 8-31-2018 at 11:00 AM

There are a lot of Mexicans that are in CA legally and at home mostly speak Spanish as that is what the parents speak but it is a problem in school because they are not good at English.

DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 11:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
There are a lot of Mexicans that are in CA legally and at home mostly speak Spanish as that is what the parents speak but it is a problem in school because they are not good at English.


Agree TMW.....as there are a bunch who are not legally there.

A reported 2.35 to 2.6 million by the Public Policy Institute of Cali.

JoeJustJoe - 8-31-2018 at 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
There are a lot of Mexicans that are in CA legally and at home mostly speak Spanish as that is what the parents speak but it is a problem in school because they are not good at English.


I would disagree with you, kids, even Mexican kids, when they are young have the ability the pick up a new language automatically provided they are just exposed to the new language, although it will take them a few months to get up to speed.

Now if you want to blame the Mexican parents, who don't speak English, you might have a better argument, because adults usually lose the ability to pick up a new language, unless they study and practice all the time, and even then an adult will usually have a strong accent, where the Mexican kids would speak like a native. This is why Trump, made an a$$ of himself, when he acted surprised a Hispanic ICE agent, spoke perfect English.

I would also question, "24/7 Wall St" that study, and methodology, that SF&H, put up there from "USA Today" that said, ""Only 64.1% of California students have parents who are fluent English speakers, the smallest share of any state in the country."

I wonder how they figured that out, calling them on the phone, and subjectively determining the parents are not fluent English speakers, or did they ask the parents, who might not rate themselves correctly?

I'm just not a big fan of " 24/7 Wall St" who usually peddle dog crap stocks, to people who have no experience with investments, so I really wonder how accurate 24/7 Wall St" would be in other areas, when they are so bad with their Wall street stock picks?

However, for the sake of augments lets say 24/7 is correct about the lack of English speaking parents. What most people don't know in California, that Asian immigrant population is exploding in many places, including in a few cities close to where I live.

Many of those Asian parents are not fluent in English either, but their kids don't seem to suffer any set backs, because of it.

SFandH - 8-31-2018 at 11:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
There are a lot of Mexicans that are in CA legally and at home mostly speak Spanish as that is what the parents speak but it is a problem in school because they are not good at English.


Agree TMW.....as there are a bunch who are not legally there.

A reported 2.35 to 2.6 million by the Public Policy Institute of Cali.



6.3% of the population in California. People should really think in percentages, not absolute numbers. Otherwise, there is no way to understand the significance of the number.

DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 12:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
There are a lot of Mexicans that are in CA legally and at home mostly speak Spanish as that is what the parents speak but it is a problem in school because they are not good at English.


I would disagree with you, kids, even Mexican kids, when they are young have the ability the pick up a new language automatically provided they are just exposed to the new language, although it will take them a few months to get up to speed.

Now if you want to blame the Mexican parents, who don't speak English, you might have a better argument, because adults usually lose the ability to pick up a new language, unless they study and practice all the time, and even then an adult will usually have a strong accent, where the Mexican kids would speak like a native. This is why Trump, made an a$$ of himself, when he acted surprised a Hispanic ICE agent, spoke perfect English.

I would also question, "24/7 Wall St" that study, and methodology, that SF&H, put up there from "USA Today" that said, ""Only 64.1% of California students have parents who are fluent English speakers, the smallest share of any state in the country."

I wonder how they figured that out, calling them on the phone, and subjectively determining the parents are not fluent English speakers, or did they ask the parents, who might not rate themselves correctly?

I'm just not a big fan of " 24/7 Wall St" who usually peddle dog crap stocks, to people who have no experience with investments, so I really wonder how accurate 24/7 Wall St" would be in other areas, when they are so bad with their Wall street stock picks?

However, for the sake of augments lets say 24/7 is correct about the lack of English speaking parents. What most people don't know in California, that Asian immigrant population is exploding in many places, including in a few cities close to where I live.

Many of those Asian parents are not fluent in English either, but their kids don't seem to suffer any set backs, because of it.



So let's say Joe.....that no matter the lack of non english speaking parents or not, it's clear the K-12 Cali system is overburdened, with not only Cali full english kids, but also with the large numbers of non or little english speaking kids.....parents fault or not.

It remains as true......both Cali kids suffer, as do the immigrant kids..either legal or non legal.

Therein lies the crux of the entire thing......either up the ante of the ratepayers to support it all, (and I am not sure that throwing more and more money at it is the fix), or do something that does not keep attracting more and more non english speakers..which is mainly aimed at those who can't get in legally and go on to jump the fence.....with all the magnets Cali has.

Cali can't, and won't do that.....so ALL the kids KEEP getting a less than top ranked education.





[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 8-31-2018 at 12:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


So let's say Joe.....that no matter the lack of non english speaking parents or not, it's clear the K-12 Cali system is overburdened, with not only Cali full english kids, but also with the large numbers of non or little english speaking kids.....parents fault or not.

It remains as true......both Cali kids suffer, as do the immigrant kids..either legal or non legal.

Therein lies the crux of the entire thing......either up the ante of the ratepayers to support it all, (and I am not sure that throwing more and more money at it is the fix), or do something that does not keep attracting more and more non english speakers..which is mainly aimed at those who can't get in legally and go on to jump the fence.....with all the magnets Cali has.

Cali can't, and won't do that.....so ALL the kids KEEP getting a less than top ranked education.




Ok I see now, DaliDali, you want to built a wall, and keep the immigrant kids, who don't speak English, from coming to California, because they are burdening the system, with all these immigrant kids who speak Spanish, and somehow it burdens all the kids in California kids, according to you.

So your solution, is just to throw the Spanish speaking immigrant kids under the bus.

I would say to you DaliDali, quit picking on kids.

It's just as I though you're not really interested in the topic of education in schools, which is pretty arrogant anyway, because there are no easy answers to what's wrong with the education system.

You seem more interested in scapegoating Spanish speaking immigrant students, for all the ills in the California schools today.

BTW, under the US Constitution, and the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment, all children, including undocumented, Spanish speaking children, can't be denied equal access to schooling.

DaliDali, you do respect the US Constitutions don't you?





[Edited on 8-31-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 02:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


So let's say Joe.....that no matter the lack of non english speaking parents or not, it's clear the K-12 Cali system is overburdened, with not only Cali full english kids, but also with the large numbers of non or little english speaking kids.....parents fault or not.

It remains as true......both Cali kids suffer, as do the immigrant kids..either legal or non legal.

Therein lies the crux of the entire thing......either up the ante of the ratepayers to support it all, (and I am not sure that throwing more and more money at it is the fix), or do something that does not keep attracting more and more non english speakers..which is mainly aimed at those who can't get in legally and go on to jump the fence.....with all the magnets Cali has.

Cali can't, and won't do that.....so ALL the kids KEEP getting a less than top ranked education.




Ok I see now, DaliDali, you want to built a wall, and keep the immigrant kids, who don't speak English, from coming to California, because they are burdening the system, with all these immigrant kids who speak Spanish, and somehow it burdens all the kids in California kids, according to you.

So your solution, is just to throw the Spanish speaking immigrant kids under the bus.

I would say to you DaliDali, quit picking on kids.

It's just as I though you're not really interested in the topic of education in schools, which is pretty arrogant anyway, because there are no easy answers to what's wrong with the education system.

You seem more interested in scapegoating Spanish speaking immigrant students, for all the ills in the California schools today.

BTW, under the US Constitution, and the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment, all children, including undocumented, Spanish speaking children, can't be denied equal access to schooling.

DaliDali, you do respect the US Constitutions don't you?

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by JoeJustJoe]


The system IS burdened.....and once again Joe, this is not just my opinion.
It's a yearly fact. Rankings prove this....year in and year out.

Equivocate this or that......it remains a question of what is causing that "burden"

By most accounts "some of it" may very well be the "diluting" the resources that are available, to have full blown curricula to provide English as a second language classes.

No beef with that....except when it comes to some, who made the decision to come into the country contrary to the law and often, with the kids......that pesky Constitution thing. Yes I have a beef with some, who won't do it the right way.

Diluting the available resources ALSO affects the quality of education for EVERYONE. English challenged kids ALSO take science classes, math classes, computer skill classes.

Just punk the local Cali kids and legal immigrant kids on their education, so the quarter million or so illegal kids (SFandH figures) can get theirs.

My beef in particular is.....the rule makers in Sacto KEEP providing the magnets and KEEP asking the rate payers to up the ante....year after year and bond issue after bond issue.

"Respect the Constitution" Joe....??
It's clear as gin you fully disrespect that Constitution, when you label yourself as a full throated open border advocate and beyond, to a full throated activist. So please.....don't go down that road.







[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 8-31-2018 by DaliDali]

JoeJustJoe - 8-31-2018 at 03:17 PM

DaliDali, if you knew something about California schools, you would know in 1998 California, passed Proposition 227, that held that all students, shall be taught in English. The only problem I had with Proposition 227, is that the racist of the day loved it, but I knew kids could pick up English fairly quickly, although they would start from behind and maybe never catch up.

So what schools, did back then for years was get rid of their bilingual programs, and only provide a Teacher assistant, to Spanish speaking students, for maybe one hour a day in order to get the student up to speed, and really not a lot of resources were used.

So DaliDali, since you blame English speaking programs, for taking away from all students, why don't you go back and look at the students scores before and after proposition 227, and see if students scores improved after they took away bilingual education you seem to blame so much.

Fast forward, 2016, thank God, California voters overturn English-only instruction law, and replaced it with Proposition 58, known as the Multilingual Education Act. And now they have many dual language immersion programs, for Spanish speaking students and others in certain schools.

Get this there are some school districts, in San Diego, and San Francisco, that offer trilinqual programs, in English, Spanish, and Mandarin. If I had young kids today, I would die to place them in that kinda of language program.

Of course, there are others, who demand, English only be spoken in US, as if English only was part of the Constitution, and actually get mad to hear anybody speak anything but English.



DaliDali - 8-31-2018 at 03:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
DaliDali, if you knew something about California schools, you would know in 1998 California, passed Proposition 227, that held that all students, shall be taught in English. The only problem I had with Proposition 227, is that the racist of the day loved it, but I knew kids could pick up English fairly quickly, although they would start from behind and maybe never catch up.

So what schools, did back then for years was get rid of their bilingual programs, and only provide a Teacher assistant, to Spanish speaking students, for maybe one hour a day in order to get the student up to speed, and really not a lot of resources were used.

So DaliDali, since you blame English speaking programs, for taking away from all students, why don't you go back and look at the students scores before and after proposition 227, and see if students scores improved after they took away bilingual education you seem to blame so much.

Fast forward, 2016, thank God, California voters overturn English-only instruction law, and replaced it with Proposition 58, known as the Multilingual Education Act. And now they have many dual language immersion programs, for Spanish speaking students and others in certain schools.

Get this there are some school districts, in San Diego, and San Francisco, that offer trilinqual programs, in English, Spanish, and Mandarin. If I had young kids today, I would die to place them in that kinda of language program.

Of course, there are others, who demand, English only be spoken in US, as if English only was part of the Constitution, and actually get mad to hear anybody speak anything but English.



Be in the country legally.......no problems here...
Illegally.....yes that's a problem.

Shall we close it down Joe?

Timinator - 9-1-2018 at 09:37 AM

The education system is burdened. I believe it's from .81 cents out of every dollar spent on education going to teachers/unions. With only .19 cents actually going to the schools, supplies and infrastructure, I think getting rid of the Public Sector Teachers Union should be the first step.

In addition, I think house & apartment renters with kids in school should pay an additional tax going to the school district that they attend that can't be siphoned off by union negotiations, it can only be used for infrastructure, supplies.

Oh, and put a time limit on welfare, forcing the massive percentage of healthy workers back into the private sector workforce. California moochers receives 1/3 of all the welfare checks in the United States. That's just pathetic. If you can't find a job in CA, move.

motoged - 9-1-2018 at 10:39 AM

Meanwhile.....back on topic about NAFTA.....

"Made in America" chant difficult to substantiate....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/armstrong-autos-tariffs-toyota-rav4-1.4805236

Where is your vehicle made?

SFandH - 9-1-2018 at 11:19 AM

Made in North America is fine with me.

I had to chuckle at the way the article ended.

"Undoing or even complicating that process will rattle an entire industry and add thousands of dollars to the cost of a vehicle.

Which is why DesRosiers can't understand why the Trump administration would even consider going down that path.

"You'd need an absolute idiot in Washington to do that," he says."


[Edited on 9-1-2018 by SFandH]

JoeJustJoe - 9-1-2018 at 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  
The education system is burdened. I believe it's from .81 cents out of every dollar spent on education going to teachers/unions. With only .19 cents actually going to the schools, supplies and infrastructure, I think getting rid of the Public Sector Teachers Union should be the first step.

In addition, I think house & apartment renters with kids in school should pay an additional tax going to the school district that they attend that can't be siphoned off by union negotiations, it can only be used for infrastructure, supplies.

Oh, and put a time limit on welfare, forcing the massive percentage of healthy workers back into the private sector workforce. California moochers receives 1/3 of all the welfare checks in the United States. That's just pathetic. If you can't find a job in CA, move.


Yes, Timinator, back up your data with links, so we could all see where you are getting your information from, and while Keeping in mind payroll, is probably the biggest expense in most businesses.

The date I show, different school districts, spend somewhere between between $7000 and $10,000 per student, but they don't mention teachers, so that's probably included.

There should not be any special tax for just students, because if that was a case, then there should also be a special tax for drunks, who spend tax dollars indirectly by ending up in jail, or getting in accidents.

The GOP, talked about that welfare to work program, they wanted to try again, but for some reason, the GOP wanted it to happen in only urban neighborhoods but wanted to exclude poor white people in the midwest who are living in places like trailer parks, while wearing caps, saying, "make America great again. I guess the GOP didn't want their constituents mad at them for forcing them to go to work for their welfare.

tobianogreg - 9-2-2018 at 07:52 AM

Canada = mid-term roadkill.

[Edited on 9-2-2018 by tobianogreg]
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